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I'm assuming the extended battery kernels are for the official 2300mA battery and they just happen to work with the knockoff 2400's also because of the driver or whatever, I dunno how it works exactly. But anyway, my question is if the official 2300mA EB drains as fast as the stock battery and then you have to do reseat the battery to get the other ~60% out of it, or if it's just the 2400 because of the extra juice? Is there any workaround for it to get it to recognize that it's actually 2400 instead of having to reset it when it drains the first cycle? It's a little irritating but nothing serious.
hd2k10 said:
I'm assuming the extended battery kernels are for the official 2300mA battery and they just happen to work with the knockoff 2400's also because of the driver or whatever, I dunno how it works exactly. But anyway, my question is if the official 2300mA EB drains as fast as the stock battery and then you have to do reseat the battery to get the other ~60% out of it, or if it's just the 2400 because of the extra juice? Is there any workaround for it to get it to recognize that it's actually 2400 instead of having to reset it when it drains the first cycle? It's a little irritating but nothing serious.
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Mine has a different behaviour.
It is made by Leicke.
It will charge to 100% or 4.195 Volts. Then leave it off the charger for half an hour and it will show like 70 or 80% (in that range) and the Voltage is at 4.14 Volts or so. Really weird.
I can watch a full movie even if the % is below 10%.
It cuts off at 3.67 Volts or so.
I find it weird that the % doesn't seem to depend on the Voltage. I've seen different batt test and the behaviour, curve, seems to be about the same.
No idea on how we could change this behaviour but it would be easier and more correct to use the Voltage.
lukesan said:
Mine has a different behaviour.
It is made by Leicke.
It will charge to 100% or 4.195 Volts. Then leave it off the charger for half an hour and it will show like 70 or 80% (in that range) and the Voltage is at 4.14 Volts or so. Really weird.
I can watch a full movie even if the % is below 10%.
It cuts off at 3.67 Volts or so.
I find it weird that the % doesn't seem to depend on the Voltage. I've seen different batt test and the behaviour, curve, seems to be about the same.
No idea on how we could change this behaviour but it would be easier and more correct to use the Voltage.
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Calibrating your battery might fix that problem --- http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=755903, but if it's cutting off at 3.67, you should still have ~60% left if you take the battery out and put it back in, it should be dead around 3
So I rooted and installed a custom rom for my dad on his evo and as a good habit I always calibrate the battery with "battery calibration" app from the market. The evo and the epic both have stock 1500mah batteries. I ran the app on the evo and once it got to 100% it read a solid 4200mv.. but whenever I flash a rom on my epic and calibrate it afterwards, fluctuates from 4188 mv to 4194. Its pretty annoying that the battery isn't fully charging. My stock battery is 7 months old.
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just curious, why is that annoying? do you think 12mv is going to do anything for you? besides i seriously doubt whatever is reading the voltage off the battery is accurate to a mv. If it was you would be able to see it run down in 1mv increments.
also not charging your battery to 4.2v will make it last longer and perform better.
You should use an actual DMM to read the battery not an app....4.2 volts and 4.192 volts really isn't that big of a difference anyway..... I have an associates degree in electronic engineering tech and I can tell you its not enough to notice a difference in batt. life
Yeah I know it's not a huge difference at all but i just wanted to read an explanation of why the case is. I know nubecoder released a patch for a more complete charge.. the app was the control, the phones were the variable so i don't think the app is misreading. I remember reading somewhere that if u leave your phone on charge after 100%, it starts draining?
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I don't think that I've ever seen above 4185 on my phone, but as others have said it's of no consequence, and may increase the useful life of the battery and prevent early damage and loss of capacity, since the most damage is done to LiIon batteries when they are almost fully charged and almost drained.
The stock Froyo charging routine seems to fast charge to about 97%, then the blue light comes on. It then slow charges to 100% and stops charging. When the battery drains to about 95% it slow charges back to 100%. Lather, rinse, repeat until you unplug the phone. This seemed to change a bit in Gingerbread, where it seems to display 100% over a wider range of voltages.
theres many reasons why: first your phone cuts off voltage when it reaches 4.2v. so even if everything else was perfect you'd only see 4.2v for a small window. after then there is re-engage limit where it will trickle charge.
other reasons..
software to measure voltage isnt accurate to .001mv, batteries get uncalibrated, internal resistance grows over time, charging circuit would be really expensive to make if it was accurate to .001mv...
I never seen any patch for a more complete charge (closer to 4.2v). Someone might have made a patch that starts the trickle charge at a higher limit, but like i said before keeping your battery at 4.2v isnt good for it.
excuse me, but how close to 2700mv should it be before it should say 0% ?
mine says 100% at 4192mV but 1% at 3634mV
The highest mine's ever gone is 4192mV.
Urban Vendetta is one of the few roms I have had a full charge. It is all different on each rom and phone
I got the little tinkle sound earlier that signifies that the battery is fully charged, but noticed that the battery icon in the top right seemed to indicate that it was still charging. Please see the 2 screenshots taken at 10.15pm.
So i decided to leave it a while and later noticed that the battery icon changed to full.
Does that mean that the lithium battery trickle charges for about half hour or so?
OldOldDev said:
I got the little tinkle sound earlier that signifies that the battery is fully charged, but noticed that the battery icon in the top right seemed to indicate that it was still charging. Please see the 2 screenshots taken at 10.15pm.
So i decided to leave it a while and later noticed that the battery icon changed to full.
Does that mean that the lithium battery trickle charges for about half hour or so?
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LiIon/LiPoly do not trickle charge. Your guess is as good as mine as to why it indicated it was full prior to it really being full. Perhaps it indicates full charge at 95% or something? Did you look to see what exact percentage it was when it "tinkled"?
They do trickle charge(low mA) at top end... and bottom... and depending on temperature.... very apparent if checking mA readings. Charging logic. Your findings are correct. I still say there is ****ty top and bottom end calibration on this phone, though makes 0 difference in how long the battery lasts if you leave it sit. How we get that magic 1% top end and **** 5% bottom, that sometimes powers off at 2%.
Thanks guys. The prevailing logic is that lithiums don't trickle charge because when they are "fully" charged then they *should* automatically switch off the power, but there definitely does seem to be evidence of a trickle change effect.
My guess is that my particular phone has poor battery calibration, but i don't know yet.
Did you look to see what exact percentage it was when it "tinkled"?
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It showed 100% (it also shows this in GSam battery monitor in the 2nd screenshot). Every singlge time the 'tinkle alarm' goes off it shows 100%
It's all LG G2s. I wouldn't say it's trickle per say, the logic just slows the mA draw at top end. Doesn't shut on and off, Just starts again at a certain % threshold. Calibration at 100% and bottom is indeed mis-calibrated. The standby mA draw in BMW and LG diagnostics reports +27,28 mA. A bit odd of you ask me.... Should be negative... all the more to assume bad calibration.
not an expert but lipo cells are charged individualy and needs to be in balance maby that's why. all lipo have this issue and have som time the need to be balanced don't know I f the phone do that automatically...
just a idé don't know if that's the issue
If you monitor the rate at which it's drawing charge once it nears 100%, you'll see it slows considerably but doesn't stop all at once. Its much more accurate to use the actual voltage to monitor charge. Gsam or android tuner do a pretty good job of that.
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Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
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just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
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Ive bought my n6p a few days back but is already a second hand.
Though its in perfect condition I would still love to take care of the battery since I know theres been a large chunks of battery cycle depleted already.
An average li-ion has about 300-500 charges before battery shows signs of deterioration.
In order to increase the battery life cycle, charging it with only 4.05 volts as conpsred to 4.20+ is the best way to take care of li-ion cells.
The problem is, the charger that comes with n6p produces volts from 4.16 as the minimum up to 4.4+ which is basicslly dtressful to the battery, plus letting it be plugged in to 100% increases temperature and so on.
I can go on.
Now, I have the habit and got an app that will chsrge the battery judt to 78% or 85% which turns down voltage just below 4.2, however there sre still instances that the voltage goes more than 4.2 even though im using a standard 900mah charger and not the rapid charger (original usb cable from huawei type a-std)
The question is, is there anyway to turn down voltage for n6p?
If not, any electrical engineer or anyone who has great knowledge backed with experience here to tell the comunity if chsrging in 4.2+ v is safe for n6p and why? Thanks
Charge voltage above 4,23ish is not good for lithium battery cells. Mine has a reported battery voltage of 4,4 volts.(!!)
As to the actual science of overcharging/over-volting lithium batteries, I don't think there's any long term 500-1000 charge cycle data. I do however have experience from radiocontrolled 1/8 scale lithium powered cars. Absolutely none of the lithium battery sellers or charger manufactors​ approve charging over 4,2volts. If you have a higher end charger you can push them to 4,25v-4,35v for cheaty improved off-the-line race starts but the charger will beep and complain/warn you constantly about the risks.
I was slightly concerned about charge voltage aswell, optimum charge modes for lithium cells are constant current ie 1800 mAh for this device until battery reaches 4,05 ish volts then constant voltage until 4,2v but it seems that phone manufacturers are either calibrating the measurement data or pushing the charge rate for convenience. If the latter is true you have all the right to call it planned obsolescence if the non-existent science of overvoltage charging is correct. The most accurate way to measure battery voltage would be to probe the battery directly while charging and while fully charged with a digital multimeter