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At the office I leave my phone in a cradle. When I get calls I remove the phone to answer and then return it to the cradle when done. My battery goes from 100% down to somewhere in the 90's then charges back to 100% in the cradle. Does this repeated process harm the battery in any way? I've read that these batteries don't suffer from the memory effect, but I'm still not sure if this counts as a charging cycle.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
Really? I've read on this forum that there is no need to do that with the new Lithium Ion batteries. I've even read that this could have a negative effect and you should try not to let the battery drain completly.
I don't understand why there isn't a proper battery care section in the manual. Its as if its some kind of voodoo science.
Perhaps not Once a week. But Once a "while"
The reason is that, Phone software uses approximation to calculate the charge left in the Battery. So over time, battery ages and software may not be calibrated to match with the battery's storage capacity. So draining the battery entirely and charging them fully gives the phone's software to assess the battery's health and recalibrate.
It's a lithium battery mate. The only way you can really damage it is by a complete discharge. So long as you don't switch the phone back on once it switches itself off due to low battery you needn't worry about anything else.
Also in theory the lithium batteries have a lifespan of say about a 1000 charges for example and everytime you charge it has one charging less left. This ofcourse isn't exactly how it is in practice but charging the battery alot wears it down. It isn't good either to keep it in the charger for a longer time after it's reached a 100%.
Hi,
this is only partly correct:
Suppose the battery can make 1000 (which I don't believe) charge cycles,
it means that you can charge 1000 times from empty to full.
If you just charge 1000 times from 50% empty to full it counts for 500 cycles!
So,
don't worry, let it stay in the cradle if you like
There are 500 opinions about that but believe, as I wrote is correct.
Theo
Yes, what I said wasn't exact science and I used 1000 cycles as an example, but from what I've read it is better to let the battery drain to less than 50% and then charge it full rather than charge 5% at a time. My previous post was meant to illustrate this.
Sent from my Leedroid powered pocketsized supercomputer using XDA App
geenome said:
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
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That's a load of crap, no offense... Lithium batteries have no memory effect and have absolutely no need to be completely discharged, that's a ancient thing from the time of nickel-metal hybrid batteries. The only actual reason for full charge cycles is to calibrate the device for that exact battery.
Keeping a lithium-ion battery in a charger most of the time will wear the battery down faster than getting it drain more and then charging it. Keeping the battery almost fully loaded/in a constant loading state wears the battery capacity by approximately 20% a year (can't recall the source/study just now)(EDIT: and my personal experience is that the battery capacity will wear that much anyway, no matter how you use it). The life-cycle of phones these days are roughly two years nowadays so IMO you can keep it in a cradle with no worries, if you wish. And lets face it, a new battery after a year of usage won't be that big an investment after all.
To add to the above post, running down a lithium battery completely does more damage than benefit. This is almost impossible though with normal use as the phone shuts down long before the battery is completely empty
I just found this very interesting article, maybe you'll like it too:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Short summary:
1. "A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life."
2. "Higher charge voltages boost capacity but lower cycle life and compromise safety."
its also suggested that you let your phone go through one complete discharge from 100 - 0% at least once a month.
- also on the heat front mentioned in the OP, i take it that means its best to remove your cover when charging your phone to stop a build up of heat?
You mean taking of the case, like Otterbox?
No, I wouldn't do so because my battery never gets warmer than 26-29 degrees.
Bad would be everything above 30°.
scaryshark said:
its also suggested that you let your phone go through one complete discharge from 100 - 0% at least once a month.
- also on the heat front mentioned in the OP, i take it that means its best to remove your cover when charging your phone to stop a build up of heat?
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Our electronic profs at uni (who actually know what they are talking about) told us to keep the charge between 80% and 30%. Discharging to 0% only harms the battery.
So i'd really like to know where it's suggested that you should discharge to 0% once a month.
btw: This is a quote from the link from the op:
"The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid frequent full discharges and charge more often between uses."
So i'd say that discharging to 0% once a month is nonsense and only harms your battery
I read that a while ago on the iPhone support website and did that for my old 3g, I just kept the practice running when I got my DHD. I guess either Apple is wrong or its only usefull for non-removable batterirs.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA
That's probably why their batteries died so fast.
gotta voice in here. i've also heard that its optimal to keep your battery in the 80%-30% range. and that its only damaging to fully drain your battery.
but on the flip side, its kinda needed to do a wipe battery stats once in a while, so i can get a better reading of my battery.... was a time when i hadn't done it for ages, and i was at 1% battery while watching a movie for 30 minutes..
so, I recommend at least, to DONT drain your battery.. but if you are getting really off readings on your battery. do the wipe battery stats thing
My DHD battery seems to be getting worse and not holding its charge. as it's almost been 18 months I decided to buy a new OEM battery and I was jus wondering how should I run the 1st few cycles? And how long will it take to reach its optimum capacity? Also will I need to wipe battery stats and calibrate it?
Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using xda premium
AllEyezOnMe said:
My DHD battery seems to be getting worse and not holding its charge. as it's almost been 18 months I decided to buy a new OEM battery and I was jus wondering how should I run the 1st few cycles? And how long will it take to reach its optimum capacity? Also will I need to wipe battery stats and calibrate it?
Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using xda premium
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No Calibration is a hoax, and battery stats are wiped whenever DHD is unplugged with nearly full charge (link to follow from one of the Android devs, don't have it to hand whilst mobile)
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
I used to worry about battery, then i purchased two of the cheap Ebay ones for like $3 they each hold about a day worth of juice. let the haters hate on the cheap batteries but it's $3! If they are of lower capacity (which must be miniscule because i can't tell) or they die early who cares. Buy a few of them and be done with it.
Sent from my Desire HD
brad808 said:
Buy a few of them and be done with it.
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Why buy many batteries, when you can have 1 quality item?
Cheap batteries can also be a security risk (exploding cell phones e.g.)
scaryshark said:
its also suggested that you let your phone go through one complete discharge from 100 - 0% at least once a month.
- also on the heat front mentioned in the OP, i take it that means its best to remove your cover when charging your phone to stop a build up of heat?
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how should we go about that? play heaps of games? increase brightness? or do you mean drain it slowly like over a day?
rootingdestroyer said:
how should we go about that? play heaps of games? increase brightness? or do you mean drain it slowly like over a day?
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You shouldn't, draining batteries fully is no longer recommended practice
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
how to charge a new battery?
I still haven't received an answer to my past post. I've just got a new OEM battery and i wanted to know how should i run the first few cycles? is there a certain amount of time i should charge before i unplug it or do i just treat it as i would with a normal used battery?
AllEyezOnMe said:
I still haven't received an answer to my past post. I've just got a new OEM battery and i wanted to know how should i run the first few cycles? is there a certain amount of time i should charge before i unplug it or do i just treat it as i would with a normal used battery?
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Suggested initial full charging/discharging cycles are ONLY made to train your phone and NOT your battery and in most cases aren't even intended for current android phones.
Those mythical suggestions are often based on facts for non-lithium rechargable batteries.
Nowadays rechargable lithium batteries are often shipped at least half full. So what you can and should do is just use the battery and try keeping it between 30% and 80%. That's all you have to do.
Dlog said:
Suggested initial full charging/discharging cycles are ONLY made to train your phone and NOT your battery and in most cases aren't even intended for current android phones.
Those mythical suggestions are often based on facts for non-lithium rechargable batteries.
Nowadays rechargable lithium batteries are often shipped at least half full. So what you can and should do is just use the battery and try keeping it between 30% and 80%. That's all you have to do.
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So are you saying i shouldn't even charge it to 100% and what about the recommended monthly full charge to complete discharge to calibrate the battery?
Well you can charge it to 100% if you want. That will reset the battery log of your phone, so it can't hurt that much.
But charging it for an extensive amount of time will bring you no good. The charging circuit in your phone and in general the charging circuit used to charge lithium-ion batteries will stop charging once the battery is full. That way it prevents the battery from overcharging. But it also means that charging your phone for any more time than it needs to won't make it run any longer.
The monthly complete discharge is not to calibrate your battery as i've allready stated. It is used by the phone to better estimate how much power your battery can currently hold. So in a sense it's used to calibrate but not the battery itself but the battery statistics in your phone.
The phone knows how much energy the wall-charger provides and can thus determin huch much power is stored in the battery once it hits 100% (or better: reaches it's maximum voltage). If you have a charge from 1% to 100% then the phone can obviously determin the battery's capacity more accurately than if you charge it from 50% to 100%.
/edit:
And yes. If you really want to prolong your batteries life then keep it's charge between 80% and 30%.
But just see to it that the charge is above 30% and you're good.
Dlog said:
Well you can charge it to 100% if you want. That will reset the battery log of your phone, so it can't hurt that much.
But charging it for an extensive amount of time will bring you no good. The charging circuit in your phone and in general the charging circuit used to charge lithium-ion batteries will stop charging once the battery is full. That way it prevents the battery from overcharging. But it also means that charging your phone for any more time than it needs to won't make it run any longer.
The monthly complete discharge is not to calibrate your battery as i've allready stated. It is used by the phone to better estimate how much power your battery can currently hold. So in a sense it's used to calibrate but not the battery itself but the battery statistics in your phone.
The phone knows how much energy the wall-charger provides and can thus determin huch much power is stored in the battery once it hits 100% (or better: reaches it's maximum voltage). If you have a charge from 1% to 100% then the phone can obviously determin the battery's capacity more accurately than if you charge it from 50% to 100%.
/edit:
And yes. If you really want to prolong your batteries life then keep it's charge between 80% and 30%.
But just see to it that the charge is above 30% and you're good.
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Ok thanks for all the information your help is much appreciated
Dlog said:
The monthly complete discharge is not to calibrate your battery as i've allready stated. It is used by the phone to better estimate how much power your battery can currently hold. So in a sense it's used to calibrate but not the battery itself but the battery statistics in your phone.
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How so? Battery stats is wiped when you unplug the nearly charged phone, so where is this historical data found?
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ghostofcain said:
How so? Battery stats is wiped when you unplug the nearly charged phone, so where is this historical data found?
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
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beats me^^
My point was that the calibration is done for the accuracy of the percentage displayed and not to make your battery hold more energy, regardless of what phone/device you use.
And i'm using Battery Monitor Widget so i tend to mean that when i talk about the "historical data". Because BMW really does tell you to run larger charge cycles to increase accuracy. It however doesn't tell you that constantly running your battery down to 0% will only shorten it's lifetime.
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
lin013190 said:
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
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Mine came nearly full. I just plugged it into charger out of the box and played with it while it was charging
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
With any new phone I always play with it till it dies and then plug it in and charge for 8 hours and then power it on and good to go
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Hmm, I see.:cyclops:
With every electronic gadget using Lithium-ion batteries nowadays, it doesn't really matter how/when you charge it.
Some would argue to make sure to allow a full discharge from a full charge from a battery calibration point of view, so the battery meter is more accurate. It wouldn't affect the health of the battery itself either way.
Things like memory effect doesn't apply to lithium-ion. How often you charge it and how much you charge it (full or partial charge etc.) doesn't affect it much either. The only 2 things that can potential kill a lithium-ion is high temperature and letting it discharge far too low to the point that it cannot be charged up again. Note that all electronic devices will power off way before it even reaches this threshold.
What makaijin says is correct
I had mine a bit of a charge yesterday but it was no where near full.
Used it till it was flat this morning. It's currently on charge and I'm going to leave it till it's full only because I need to stop messing with it and do other things
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I charged mine for 4 hours before use.
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
hanthesolo said:
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
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"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Ifixit shows that the battery inside the Nexus 7 is Lithium Polymer. Does that make a difference in terms of conditioning compared to Li-Ion batteries?
MaxCarnage said:
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
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Oh, thanks. I thought that was my being paranoid .
Lithium Polymer batteries are actually worse than Lithium-Ion. Don't take my word for it, but at least with older RC Lipo batteries, fully discharging damages them even more the lithium-ion. I am sure the tablet cuts off way before the danger point, but still something to keep in mind.
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
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phoneman09 said:
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
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Not sure but you can always tap the power button to pull up the battery charge animation. It should let you know when it is fully charged.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
TP_NC_USER said:
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
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I would rather always have my battery near max charge when I take it off the charger than have a battery last 7 years instead of 3 or 4 in a device I will realistically only use extensively for 2. Even more so with a phone where they battery can replaced for $20. I'll take a full charge every time over the battery lasting for years longer than I need it to.
I have a first gen iPod Touch I bought when they were released (2007 I think?). I have left it on a charger for MONTHS. Still holds a decent charge.
Is there benefit to using a battery calibration app like this if you're rooted?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&hl=en
You don't have to but I like to. Mine was like 40% charged when I unboxed
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
sRDennyCrane said:
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
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Calibration occurs every time the battery is charged to 100%. It isn't a "first few days" type of thing, it is every single time the battery meter reaches 100%.
I had no choice but to completely charge my N7 (purchased from Office Depot 7/14). When I went to turn it on the first time, I was greeted with small text in the upper left side of the screen that said "show low battery logo" on a completely black screen. No logo...no nothing. Completely blank. Plugged it in, the battery charging logo popped up, fully charged it and it's been working great since.
However, I found it a bit odd as I thought most of these types of devices ship with about a 40% battery charge.
Thoughts?
I charge my phone overnight, from around 10PM to 8AM, then I leave my phone charging in its dock from about 9AM to 5PM during the work day...
any harm in doing this? I'd like my phone to last quite a while, as we are currently in a serious relationship, and I don't plan on letting her go....
What hurts your phone battery is not charging it but keeping it on high temperatures for a long time. And guess what keeps it on high temperatures: yep, you guessed it, charging for a long time.
Sent from my HTC Desire C using xda app-developers app
While it always depends on the charging circuit, keeping your battery topped up by constant charging (even trickle maintenance) will reduce the voltage level that it can be charged to. This will take quite some time to notice, and several deeper charging cycles will "repair" this to a certain extent. But with any battery, keeping it any constant level will reduce its charging capacity, and continual charging (trickle or otherwise) will "cook" the batteries chemical make up sooner.
To do what you're doing everyday will absolutely have an impact on your battery's health over the long term. But to exactly what extent is based on several factors I don't have specific data on.
Absolutely, our phone battery is designed for mobile usage, not to be tethered to a charger constantly. Constant charging is unnecessary, wasteful and leads to early battery demise.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
caliber177 said:
And aren't our high end modern phones also designed to trickle charge when it gets to %100, so no harm can come to it?
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I suppose it depends on how you define "harm". Read my post above again. Any level of current that is continually supplied to a charged battery will accelerate the aging of it.
Even if the charger were to shut off completely, and then resume charging at a certain level (which I believe is the behavior of the LG wireless charger at 95%), continually discharging and recharging from 95% to 100% is probably not ideal.
But all of this is probably not all that great of an affect in the grand scheme of things. You're not gonna kill your battery in a matter of months by leaving on the charger all of the time. Yes you will accelerate the degradation of the battery's health over time, but if your phone is in use enough so the battery is being discharged regularly between charges, I doubt that you will notice it for a long time, if at all.
I can say that if you simply leave it charging 24/7 without any other kind of use you will be able to measure degradation surprisingly soon. As to how noticeable it will be is very hard to say.
I use and suggest Battery Monitor Widget from 3c. It takes the guess work out of what you see when you're charging and what happens to the phone when it reaches 100%.
As the phone gradually reaches 90%, charging is noticeably slowed. From about 92-100% it trickle charges from around 300 to 200 to 100mA until it reaches 100%. Charger stops charging when full and lets the battery level drop slightly before charging it back to 100%. You're constantly topping it off at full and batteries of this chemistry don't like that.
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up. The only catch is, don't run them down until it's completely dead. You've significantly cut the life of your battery if you do it quite often.
To answer your question, it probably doesn't hurt that much. If you do it for months, maybe years. Yeah, you'll see some degradation.
desynch- said:
As far as I can recall, these types of batteries actually thrive on being run down and cycled back up.
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I would correct this and say the battery loves being near the median. Store at 40% battery! 100%-0% is bad... 100%-10% is better, 90/10 is better etc...
80/40 is really good for preserving charge cycles. Basically, charging at 30% back up to 70% is better than letting it go down to 0%
Note: this is a REALLY good battery in this phone. Just USE it until you feel it's dying too soon and buy a new one. Batteries are cheap and will be cheaper in 2-3 years.
But we can't buy battery for this phone.. I always let it run down to 14% that's when the warning message pops up.. Then back up, charges in 2 1/2 hrs then I leave it on an hour more until I leave from work so I could have a full phone.. Note, I work over nights, so its dead at around 2 or 3 am sometimes, then I leave at 6 am..
Sent from my Nexus 4
Please... I would say we can in a few months! Most of us have already voided the warranty
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
Most of us in here don't keep our phones long enough to notice any battery degradation..
Just charge it as often as you can but unplug it when it's full.
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
dralways said:
To be safe I would let the phone idle off of the work charger and only plug in at home.
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Agreed, I only charge once a day and it's usually sufficient, if your a heavy user and are concerned about the phone dying at night, let the phone decharge normally throughout the day and plug it in an hour or an hour and a half before you leave, however long it takes to charge the device after a workday's worth of usage (Whatever that is for you)
I do this myself if I'm using my phone heavily during the day and know I'll be out all night. Like some said you'll probably never even notice the degradation, but when you know it's not good for the battery in the strictest sense why risk it, the phones aren't designed to be charging 2/3rd of the time, they are designed to be charged and then taken off the charger and used.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
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just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
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