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I herd reports from person experiencing better battery life by using a non htc or factory charger. Some also say it takes much longer to charge but are now easily getting two days or longer life than with stock chargers. I want to narrow it down and compare the results.
I want to know what is the output mA. It is usually located on the charger it self where it states the voltage. The factory charger for the N1 is 980 mA and via usb is 480 mA. So those who are experiencing better battery life as a result of the switch, what is your mA on the charger? Also what brand is it?
I suspect this is right!
Whenever I use the stock charger, battery drops really fast, even if not using the phone much.
I'll be measuring this and put here the results.
Please do. I'm gonna try a bb charger tonight and see if it lasts longer.
I can't imagine this being the case. The battery holds a specific charge. I have a motorola charger, 500mA, and when you charge via computer USB you are getting less too. At no point have i had exceptional battery life.
I've used 2 different mains chargers, a car charger and charged from 2 seperate PC's using 2 seperate µUSB cables, battery life remains roughly the same, as you would expect.
I use my Nokia N97 charger rated 5v 1200 mA and it charges the phone from empty quite fast...sometimes from 20-30% i get to 100% in 2 hours flat...i get about 1-1.5 days and haven't tried the standard HTC charger yet cos I feel Nokia's are better quality...i even use the old Nokia usb cable but don't think usb cables make any difference.
Your Nokia adaptor will charge faster due to the extra 200mA available to the phone (assuming it's able to draw it, but given the faster charge you would assume so).
Electricity is electricity.
The only changes you'll see between sources is how fast it charges the battery.
There are no magic chargers that charge the battery a certain way to "last longer".
Higher current chargers get to the "mostly full" state quicker because they are dumping power into the battery faster. But, the protective electronics on Li-Ion batteries will cut to a "topping charge" state sooner because the charge speed is so high. The topping charge level is the same speed regardless of charger and so switching to it earlier means you spend longer in that state.
A lower current charger will take longer to get to the "mostly full" state, but it will get closer to true 100% before the electronics kick into the topping charge mode.
The other thing to consider is that the indicators on devices often indicate "charged" when the phone reaches the "mostly full" state and so the higher current chargers appear to "finish" faster. But, if you look at the charging status you will still see that it is still taking on a charge. If you wait until that stops then you will be at a true 100%.
So, if you need to get the phone to the "mostly full" state then a higher current charger is better for a quick boost. But, if you want to get the phone to a full charge then the current level of the charger may be mostly a wash due to the fact that it has to spend more time in the topping charge mode. If you are charging overnight then it really doesn't matter which you use.
Now, one thing that Li-Ion batteries do not like at all is heat. When you use a higher current charger then you heat the battery more and its eventual life (i.e. how many months/years it will last) will be impacted more than a lower current charger. So, for overnight charging I'd rather use a lower current charger. But, if you need to dump a lot of charge into the battery quickly then a higher current charger is faster if you aren't worried about getting it to the 100% full state. But, for small batteries like in phones, stay less than the rating of the batter (i.e. no higher than a 1400mA charger for a 1400mAH battery). Below that level there should be no appreciable harm to longevity, but even still - the lower the charge rate the better in the long run.
See this page for information on topping charge and charge currents:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
See this page for graphs of battery longevity with different charge rates:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
muncheese said:
There are no magic chargers that charge the battery a certain way to "last longer".
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It is fuzzier than that.
A higher current charger will likely have the device report "I'm charged" with less power in the battery because what it really means is "I'm just doing a topping charge" and that topping charge can still be a good 10% or more of the battery life, especially higher with a stronger charger since the electronics have to be paranoid about over-charging and measuring the current changes that indicate the battery is truly full are harder when the charge rate is higher.
A lower current charger may not trigger the "I'm charged" indicators until it hits 95% full because it is pushing less on the trigger conditions.
If you have a habit of taking the phone off the charger when the indicator first goes green then you may see more battery life on the lower current charger, but it isn't magic - it's just the silly games that battery indicators play to impress the consumers.
Also, if you have a habit of taking it off the charger when it goes green then your battery may never get fully calibrated and so it may only be 70% full when it thinks it is full. But, a lower current charger may get you closer to full more often and thus cause you to reach a calibrated state easier and quicker.
For calibration you should always leave the phone on the charger until well after the light goes green, keeping it on even after the text indicator no longer indicates that any charge is happening (i.e. the lightning bolt is gone) and even then leave it on for a few hours past that anyway. Once calibrated then you have the maximum battery capacity available (modulo the "age" of the battery). It can take several hours to get a phone completely charged if it is poorly calibrated. And sometimes it may even get better with a couple of calibration cycles back to back (but only in extreme cases).
More info:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
Two chargers used - one is a mains -> usb charger. (i.e allows USB lead to be used via a mains plug)
Output is 5v @ 1A
Other is a plantronics charger.
Output is [email protected] 350mA.
"Mains" based charger gives around a day's worth of charge with standard use.
The Plantronics gives me 2 days worth at standard use.
There is a fairly clear "boost" in battery life from switching between the two chargers.
Highland3r said:
Two chargers used - one is a mains -> usb charger. (i.e allows USB lead to be used via a mains plug)
Output is 5v @ 1A
Other is a plantronics charger.
Output is [email protected] 350mA.
"Mains" based charger gives around a day's worth of charge with standard use.
The Plantronics gives me 2 days worth at standard use.
There is a fairly clear "boost" in battery life from switching between the two chargers.
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Well I just finish charing my N1 battery with a universal charger rated @ 200mA. It took over 4hours, I let it stay for 5. With my OEM charger I would get barely a day. So lets see how my battery lasts today.
flarbear said:
Higher current chargers get to the "mostly full" state quicker because they are dumping power into the battery faster. But, the protective electronics on Li-Ion batteries will cut to a "topping charge" state sooner because the charge speed is so high. The topping charge level is the same speed regardless of charger and so switching to it earlier means you spend longer in that state.
A lower current charger will take longer to get to the "mostly full" state, but it will get closer to true 100% before the electronics kick into the topping charge mode.
The other thing to consider is that the indicators on devices often indicate "charged" when the phone reaches the "mostly full" state and so the higher current chargers appear to "finish" faster. But, if you look at the charging status you will still see that it is still taking on a charge. If you wait until that stops then you will be at a true 100%.
So, if you need to get the phone to the "mostly full" state then a higher current charger is better for a quick boost. But, if you want to get the phone to a full charge then the current level of the charger may be mostly a wash due to the fact that it has to spend more time in the topping charge mode. If you are charging overnight then it really doesn't matter which you use.
Now, one thing that Li-Ion batteries do not like at all is heat. When you use a higher current charger then you heat the battery more and its eventual life (i.e. how many months/years it will last) will be impacted more than a lower current charger. So, for overnight charging I'd rather use a lower current charger. But, if you need to dump a lot of charge into the battery quickly then a higher current charger is faster if you aren't worried about getting it to the 100% full state. But, for small batteries like in phones, stay less than the rating of the batter (i.e. no higher than a 1400mA charger for a 1400mAH battery). Below that level there should be no appreciable harm to longevity, but even still - the lower the charge rate the better in the long run.
See this page for information on topping charge and charge currents:
http://batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
See this page for graphs of battery longevity with different charge rates:
http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
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Click to collapse
Great points indeed. I've learning alot and thanks for the links.
Should I charge my phone when it has like 0.5% battery left always, or can I charge whenever it gets a little low, like 30-40%?
Also, can I leave my phone plugged into the charger overnight? Will that drain the battery?
I leave mine in the charger every night. And I'll put it in charge at work, too, or whenever a charging opportunity arises. With this kind of battery, it really doesn't matter.
Here is a very good article that discusses Lithium Ion batteries:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
convolution said:
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
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Not certain, but it seems the charger and/or battery on the Vision is designed so that it does not keep the voltage at 100% when its charging and full. I've noticed the battery meter periodically drop to 99% when still on the charger, then back up to "F" (full). While I know the battery meter is not really accurate enough to read to 1% increments; what this seems to indicate is that once a full charge is achieved, the system is going to let the charge drop below a certain threshold, then top off again, rather than keep the voltage at 100% constantly.
The table below is a little more easily digestible (not overly technical). It says you can keep the battery on the charger.
It also says not to let the battery discharge below 20%. Overdischarge of Li ion batteries can result in your battery no longer accepting a charge, on the off chance the safety circuit does not trip properly. The safety circuit is designed to prevent over discharge of the battery, but this has been known to fail, at least on other phones. And there is no benefit to letting the battery discharge below 20%.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table
convolution said:
I don't get the article.
Does 4.2V mean 100% battery life?
If you want to charge it to 4.0 V, does that mean its like 90% battery life?
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There are two terms you need to understand when it comes to batteries: volts and amps.
Volts is "static" for a battery, meaning it doesn't change. You have a 1.5V battery, it will always be a 1.5V battery. Now the capacity of the battery is measured in amps. A 1Amp battery has more capacity than a 500mAh battery. At 100% fully charged, you'd have 1000mAh (or 1A). At 90%, you'd have 900mAh.
What that article tells you is that your phone is charged to (or close to) 100% using a specified voltage (probably whatever the battery is rated at...3.7V?). Now batteries and chargers of the past had what's called a "trickle" effect, in which it still chargers the battery when it is (or close to) 100%, but at a much lower voltage. If you phone was to stop charging after it hit 100%, it would start to discharge. When you unplugged it (assuming you charge it over night) in the morning, you would have less than 100%. The trickle is so that your battery will still have 100% when you unplug it.
Think about if you filled up your gas tank and left your car running over night. When you woke up, you wouldn't have a full tank anymore. But if you left the gas nozzle in the tank while it was running, it would continually "top it off". That or gas leak everywhere and your car would burst into flames...therefore canceling the point that you wouldn't a full tank...
Anyways...Li-Ion batteries charge and behave differently that batteries of yore. It's bad to let it go down to almost 0%. It's also bad to let it continually sit on the charger. I personally charge mine every other day but I used to charge my Vibrant and HD2 every night.
The batteries in these phones have protection circuits to prevent over charging as well as over discharge. It is perfectly safe to charge over night as well as discharge until empty. What the display shows as 0% does not mean the battery has actually reached 0%. It is just were the protection circuit deems safe. It is possible to over discharge a Li-ion/LiPo battery which may cause it to no longer charge but there are ways to bring it back for the willing. Our phones, however, will not do this due to the protection circuit unless that fails. If that happens you need a new battery because Li-ion/Lipo batteries are very dangerous if over or under charged.
Also, the voltage is static in theory but in real life the the voltage does drop as the battery is discharged. The drop is not large however. A 3.7v Li-ion/LiPo cell will read around 4.2v at full charge and lowers to just over 3.7v at full SAFE discharge. If the battery falls below 3.7v, you will likely have damaged the cell. Again, our phone batteries have a protection circuit to prevent this.
ihateusernames said:
The batteries in these phones have protection circuits to prevent over charging as well as over discharge. It is perfectly safe to charge over night as well as discharge until empty. What the display shows as 0% does not mean the battery has actually reached 0%. It is just were the protection circuit deems safe. It is possible to over discharge a Li-ion/LiPo battery which may cause it to no longer charge but there are ways to bring it back for the willing.
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It would require a special charger with a "boost" function, which most people do not have access to.
From the previously linked battery University page:
In spite of these preventive measures, over-discharge does occur. Advanced battery analyzers (Cadex C7000 series) feature a 'boost' function that provides a gentle charge current to activate the safety circuit and re-energize the cells if discharged too deeply.
Most of us let our battery drain low on accident from time to time. But it makes not sense to do it intentionally or make a habit of it, as it yields no benefit (some people think they are "conditioning" or "calibrating" the battery, which does not apply to Li ion batteries), and actually hurts battery life. Also from Battery University: "Do charge the battery often. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges."
There have been pretty occasional cases on the Touch Pro 2 forums of people over-discharging the battery, and rendering it useless. So it does happen. Some have claimed that the Android OS, or the Vision phone itself handles the battery better to avoid over discharge. Maybe so. But do you really want to test that theory, if it can most usually be avoided?
redpoint73 said:
It would require a special charger with a "boost" function, which most people do not have access to.
From the previously linked battery University page:
In spite of these preventive measures, over-discharge does occur. Advanced battery analyzers (Cadex C7000 series) feature a 'boost' function that provides a gentle charge current to activate the safety circuit and re-energize the cells if discharged too deeply.
Most of us let our battery drain low on accident from time to time. But it makes not sense to do it intentionally or make a habit of it, as it yields no benefit (some people think they are "conditioning" or "calibrating" the battery, which does not apply to Li ion batteries), and actually hurts battery life. Also from Battery University: "Do charge the battery often. The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges."
There have been pretty occasional cases on the Touch Pro 2 forums of people over-discharging the battery, and rendering it useless. So it does happen. Some have claimed that the Android OS, or the Vision phone itself handles the battery better to avoid over discharge. Maybe so. But do you really want to test that theory, if it can most usually be avoided?
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I agree that it can happen which is why I stated that the prevention circuit can fail though I do believe it to be a rare case that this happens. I charge when ever I am near a charger as I don't like to run low but I also don't freak out if I am close to dead. I also charge over night every night and have for years. I just don't believe that it is necessary to worry that my phone has been on the charger too long or that I am running close to 0% as there is redundant protection in place and for the most part, this protection works very well. Hell, your phone COULD burst into flames while holding it next to your ear due to the volatility of the Lithium Ion chemistry if exposed to air but that also very rarely happens.
I believe it is probably worse on the battery to watch movies on the phone while overclocked with the battery getting too hot than to discharge to 0% occasionally.
I do agree that it is pointless to try conditioning lithium batteries as they have no memory effect.
Reviving an over discharged Lithium battery should not be attempted by most. I fly RC Helis and my electrics use 3 or 6 cell LiPo's. On the very rare occasion I kill a cell, I isolate the bad cell and trickle charge until it matches the others and then resume balance charging. The batteries in our phones can be revived in the same manner. It requires low current and constant observation and should not be done by the inexperienced.
I just noticed that Samsung is treating our batteries in a rude manner: they limit the charging voltage at 4.3v which drastically reduces battery life. I have searched all over the internet and I could not find a way to limit the maximum charging voltage. Is there any way to limit the charging voltage?
I measured the voltage with an intelligent charger, at first I got an overvoltage error as I tried to discharge the battery. I really don't feel comfortable driving around with a bomb in my car as Samsung did have issues with exploding batteries. The ideal voltage must be around 4.1v, maximum 4.2v
So you measured the voltage while it was charging in the phone? Not sure how you hooked up an intelligent charger to the battery while it's in the phone charging by the phone.
they limit the charging voltage at 4.3v which drastically reduces battery life.
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How does it reduce it?
And as far as I know, the charging voltage is 5.3V for the standard charger.
I was measuring the battery outside the phone after 1 day when I got out the battery out of the phone, fully charged.
Someguyfromhell, the USB voltage does not play a role here, the charging electronics is in the phone matters, USB provides, as you say, a fixed voltage.
Inx64, is there perhaps an ingeneering menu concerning the charging process where you can modify charging parameters?
I think you can measure voltage with this code *#0228#
Knowing the voltage from the menu is easy, controlling the charging voltage aparently not so easy, though.
Hello friends,
So I just got my Note 4 and i'm wondering how long should I keep it in charge for the first time? And should I drain it on first use or charge it when it's at let's say 20%??
Thanks in advance.
14 hrs, dont drain, battery should be between 20-80% before charging in normal use, fast charge off.
@zurkx
Thanks for the reply.
Are you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
XeroHertZ said:
@zurkxAre you sure about the 14 hours??? I thought Li-ion batteries don't need that long of a charging time !!!
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Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks Chefprol.I have done some research on charging the battery and have come to a conclusion that once it's charged I can use it straight away but and then drain it to 18 to 20% then charge it fully.
Chefproll said:
Please happily ignore that "advices".
Use Fast charge, charging takes exactly till the battery is full, that's about 1,5 hours for a full charge.
I don't see ANY sense in charging a LiIo battery "fuller than full", just impossible nonsense.
LiIo batteries suffer of aging, slightly increased by the number of charges, highly (!) increased by overheating, not of any memory effects.
There is NO "breaking in" of the Note 4s battery, amperage of fast charge doesn't come even near the safety limits, won't cause quick degradation or overheating.
So just don't listen go the immortal myths and "ancient wisdom" propagated by people not aware of the fact that battery technology indeed changed over the decades.
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Thanks ! i tought it would be a old myth to first drain the batery and then fully load it but as far as i know its only with old phones and mp3 players and such.
hope i will get my note 4 today ! waiting for it since monday
Fast Charge is not really a useful feature for me, it just hurts the battery more in the long run
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
There's no need to condition the battery, its a lithium battery.
If you're having battery drain issues I would suggest you clear your data cache.
ddaharu said:
what about the thoughts on conditioning the battery?
Sent from my SM-N910C using XDA Free mobile app
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this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
Who's post are you referring to?
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
dont listen to fools.
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that. best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life. if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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arjun90 said:
Who's post are you referring to?
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It's mine. That guy already bumped into me a while ago, now it's time for his revenge.
I'll care for that, now...
---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------
zurkx said:
this is the same guy making up stuff about the note 4 GPS being bad.
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Click to collapse
So here we go; you asked for it...
My critism about the Note 4 refers to it's GPS receiver, which is "deaf" compared to the competition and shows frequent signal drops.
More here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4/general/gps-close-to-unusable-t2948602
dont listen to fools.
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Indeed - have a look:
First charge needs to be 14 hours to trickle charge the battery to full and make sure the meter is calibrated to a full battery.
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I already advised to realize this is 2014 battery technology, not the ancient batteries of the past.
Short: There is no "trickle charge" with Lithium-Ion-batteries.
See this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries - quote: "The difference lies in a higher voltage per cell, tighter voltage tolerance and the absence of trickle or float charge at full charge."
fast charge does reduce battery life since it charges at higher voltage and amperage. any battery gets damaged a little by that.
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Quote: "The charge rate of a typical consumer Li-ion battery is between 0.5 and 1C in Stage 1, and the charge time is about three hours. Manufacturers recommend charging the 18650 cell at 0.8C or less."
"C" is the capacity, 3220 mAh with our Note 4's battery. So we're save to charge with a current (milliamperes, "mA") of up to 3220 mA - if we follow the manufacturer's advice for the older type of batteries of that kind (18650 is an old warrior in the field), there's still 2576 A left.
So what does our fast charge supply deliver ? Look at it's ratings: 5 V, 2 A (2000 mA).
So even fast charge is far below the limits - our real limit is 3220 mA, but fast charging just uses 2000 mA.
Sound and safe.
Wonder about me highlighting "higher voltage" in zurkx's highly elaborate statement in red ? - Answer is above: The voltage does NOT change, it is NOT higher. Of course not !
The worst enemies of LiIon batteries are heat and age.
Heat is generated by a) placing the device at a hot spot (like behind the car's windscreen or in bright sunlight), b) by using demanding features like 4K video recording or highend games, c) by charging .
a) Your call. Just don't let your Note get hot. Overheating destroys your battery in no time. We're lucky we've got an exchangeable battery - so nothing to really worry about.
b) Your call. See a).
c) Charging produces some heat, especially on the "last mile", when the battery is "almost full", because the battery is a bit reluctant of getting charged up to the brim. So more heat is generated in that last phase. It's not much, won't reach the safety limits. It just can't, because the build-in charging circuits limits the current if heat gets up.
By the way: That integrated charging circuits are propped with safety measures, checking charge, condition, temperature and the like.
So even if you hook up a charger capable of providing 20 whopping amperes, the circuits just won't let that happen.
There is no way of providing the battery too much current; it's automatically limited.
best is a slow charge (preferably Qi) at a normal charging voltage. Slower the better for longer battery life.
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Again; welcome to the 21st century. We don't need any slow charge. It's the opposite.
Charging right slow has the danger that apps on the phone draw more power than the charge provides. That may drain your battery instead of filling it.
Plus: If you hook up the charger for long, it will be recharged (charge gets "topped off") frequenly. And every new charging attempt has a slightly negative impact on the battery's life; it's like wearing it a bit down. - Charge often, reduce your battery's life. That damage is tiny, by the way. But it is there, so hooking up your charger for many hours slowly kills your battery.
Now for the aging:
if you want convenience over battery life then by all means fast charge and mess it up and replace after 2-3 years.
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LiIon battery ARE AGING, up from the time of manufacture.
You all know that: You charge a device like you're told by the instructions - but after 1 to 3 years you notice a severe drop of usage time, a drop of capacity.
That's aging.
NOTHING you can do against that but buying a new battery.
So your battery will lose it's capacity over time; if you use it or not. You all know that, you all experienced that.
With the Note 4, we can happily buy a new battery if the old one runs out; it's that simple. But as a normal Li Ion battery reaches it's shelf live after 2 or 3 years anyway, there's NO (!) need of burdening it and you with slow charge. The results are exactly the same, with the difference that you save precious time with fast charging.
And now allow me quoting again:
dont listen to fools.
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Have a nice day, all of you except one.
youre completely wrong.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
http://www.androidauthority.com/quick-charge-explained-563838/
Quick Charge 2.0
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
Snapdragon 200, 400, 410, 615, 800, 801, 805
The rest is just BS as usual. You have no idea what youre talking about. Dumping 9V (Samsung Note 4 AFC) into a 5V battery makes it charge hotter and faster and degrades it significantly. After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
just bad advice as usual.
zurkx said:
youre completely wrong.
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Yes, indeed. I was completely wrong by believing you'd understand some simple things.
In fact, I am not sure if I should take your statements for serious or just for a joke.
The QuickCharge tech charges at higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE.
Voltages 5v 5v / 9v / 12v
Max Current 2A 3A
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So you REALLY believe that changes of the output voltage of the POWER SUPPLY lead to the BATTERY charged with more volts ?
You can't be serious. That's technically impossible.
Let's put it easy:
If you insert your power supply into a 110 V receptacle in the USA, you get 5 V output.
So according to your "logic", using the same power supply in Europe (230 V) increases the voltage to 10 V ?
No. Just NO.
That higher POWER SUPPLY voltage is used for fulfilling the rule W = V * A (Watt = Volt * Ampere); just to be able to squeeze more power through the power supply's cable.
In the Note 4 and in the charging circuit, that voltage OF COURSE will be regulated down to the regular charging voltage - just with the benefit to carry more amperes.
So the CHARGING VOLTAGE stays the same; it does NOT follow the voltage supplied by the POWER SUPPLY. It never does.
So fast charging does NOT (read that: NOT !) increase the charging voltage. It cannot.
Got that now ? - Or do I need to put it ever more simple ?
It does not help using swearing words like "fool" or "bull****".
But it could help just saying: "Oh, sorry, I was wrong. - My apologies."
Make yourself at home with the basics of lithium ion and charging technology. THEN speak up.
Ah, overlooked something:
After two weeks of fast charge i lost a small chunk off the top of my brand new battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Hope that chunk fell somewhere you were able to pick it up again.
2) How to you KNOW that ? I expect a detailled description about how you did the magic of finding out that your battery doesn't charge to 100 %.
3) If you KNEW that fast charging would kill your battery, wise man - why did you allegedly use the feature ? - Sorry, man... Your statements are not very trustworthy. I guess you never used that feature, just say so to strengthen your shaky point of view. Please don't mess with a perception psychologist.
4) If your battery really suffered, that might be due to your highly acclaimed and absolutely pointless 14-hours-charging-marathons, causing a permanent charge on/charge off cycle, weakening your battery.
So please just stop bashing a real useful feature of the Note 4. If you just love waiting ages for batteries to charge - your preference. But please stop spreading false facts about things you very obviously are not at home with.
And a last thing which might stop that aimless harassing fire of yours: I am HAM, a licenced amateur radio operator, holding the highest German licence class. These are the people who know a bit about volts and amperes.
how hard is it for you to understand that quickcharge 2.0 outputs higher VOLTAGE and AMPERAGE to charge the battery ? The charger charges the BATTERY AT 9V 1.67A up to 50% and then switches over to the regular 5V 2A charge rate. INPUT VOLTAGE (110V or 230V) has nothing to do with OUTPUT VOLTAGE. It charges the battery at 9V REGARDLESS of INPUT VOLTAGE.
edit:
also it has nothing to do with the cable. you must be crazy if you think a cable issue exists whether you transfer 15W or 10W across it. the cable is rated for well beyond that. the reason for the higher voltage is that modern lithium ions can accept high voltage charge rates with limited damage at low amperage. the reason they cut it off at 50% is the battery would be severely damaged if you tried to charge it to 100% and overshot. so yes quickcharge 2.0 really does charge your battery at a higher voltage than it was designed to be charged at. and no they dont have a magical transformer on your phone to go from 9V to 5V. otherwise they would be using it all the time and fast charge 9V to 100%. the wall plug is the only thing which has a transformer and the phone uses what it gets from there. they arent going to build half of another wall plug (9V DC-DC) and stuff it into the phone. it would generate heat and add bulk. Instead the PMIC "spikes" the battery with higher voltage and keeps it roughly constant (load modulation) by communicating with the quickcharge 2.0 AFC on the other end.
Hopeless.
I just love these battery threads, there's always some muppet who says the battery needs conditioning and must first be charged for a suitably ridiculous length of time. When it's charged it's charged, lithium batteries have no memory effect so the idea of conditioning them is moronic
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yes they have no memory effect. why ? because you say so.
other people believe otherwise because they actually test things out for themselves :
http://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries
http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/03/li-ion-batteries-memory-effect
http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
no need to keep it for 14 hours, as they said in the catalog you only need to charge it till it's full, then unplug the charger.
Hello again !
After all cooled down a bit, here's some more information about that dreaded HIGH VOLTAGE fast charging uses which seemingly makes some of you wet your pants.
First, there's an experiment you can do yourself. You don't need to do - but it's quite impressive and gives you some proof of the things I say.
Get two 9 V batteries; the small rectangle ones we all know. Connect the positive contact of the first battery with the negative contact of the second. Thus you get an 18 volts DC power source.
Get a thin, isolated wire, short-circuit the open contacts with the wire. Wait.
Nothing special will happen, maybe the wire will get a little warm - and your batteries will eventually die.
(If you use a VERY thing wires, it might heat up.)
Now take a length of the same wire, do the same using your car's battery (12 – 13.8 V DC).
WARNING !
1) Take the battery out of the car, set it on solid ground with nothing combustible near !!! Do NOT try this with the battery still in the car !!!
2) Use pliers to connect the wire with the battery contacts !!!
3) Do that OUTDOORS !!!
Short-circuit the battery contacts using the pliers with the wire.
You don't need to wait. The cable will turn into a smoking, burning, white-hot thing in an instant.
Huh ? - We've got 18 V with just nothing happening, we've got just 12 V wreaking instant havoc and destruction !?
Amperage is the key !
Voltage alone does not cause the destruction, it's the amperage.
9 V batteries cannot provide sufficient amperes for killing the wire; 12 V car batteries do.
Short: High amperage kills wires, high voltage doesn't.
So back to our topic...
To fast charge our Note 4's battery, we need power, watts. But the tiny wires in the Note 4 can't withstand a high wattage; they would heat up like the wire connected to the 12 V car battery.
So Samsung uses a little trick, according to Ohm's law: W = V * A, W is watts, V is volts, A is amperes.
So we can achieve a high wattage by EITHER using a higher voltage OR a higher amperage.
Higher amperage does not work because it will kill the tiny wires in the Note.
So Samsung raised the voltage for carrying more watts from the power supply via the internal Note 4's cabling to the charging circuit.
That higher voltage gets transformed down to the normal charging voltage at the charging circuit.
Your battery is charged with the usual voltage, but with the benefits of a higher amperage.
That's all the magic: That higher voltage is used to carry more wattage to the charging circuit, but not beyond. Nothing else.
And that's why it does not harm your battery; charging voltage will not change - your battery just gets charged faster, always monitored by the charging circuit which will lower the charge accordingly if needed, so your battery will always be safe. That's why the "last mile" (charge from about 92 % to 100 %) takes more time to charge - because the charging circuit automatically lowers the charge to protect your battery.
So don't be afraid of that higher voltage; it never reaches your battery, it is just a means for transferring higher wattage via tiny wires.
Note: You ever wondered why Europeans use 230 V instead of 110 V ? - That's the reason. Being able to carry more watts over regular power lines without risking the wires heating up too much. It's not a means of destruction, it's the opposite.
Using always connected to Charger?
For long term battery health I wouldn't recommend keeping it plugged in for long periods of time. People say today's batteries have protective circuits that prevent overcharging, but I don't really trust this. So I simply unplug it as soon as it is fully charged.
As for actual better battery life, turn off everything you don't need - GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Mobile Data etc. This phone should give you an average of 6 hours SOT. To obtain more you will probably need a custom kernel, but even then the results may vary.
Yeah it has protection circuit to protect overcharging. Lithium based batteries can always take charge, and might self-combust. (ok , worst case. basically, lithium can't get in contact with water. RH in air is just enough to start the self combustion reaction). Nowadays, Li-ion or Li-Po are well made, and this is less problematic.
This as been said, it doesn't mean that this circuit won't trigger the battery every 0.XXX% drop, which is not good, so yeah, until someone do electric reading test on the op5, I won't suggest to let the device plugged in when full.
Simple rules for lithuim based batteries :
- time will kill the battery, even if it's brand new sealed. (normal chemical reaction). Nothing we can do here, limit extreme temperatures, not too cold not too hot.
- heat will decrease battery life and capacity. This mean, dash charging will decrease life. So, 1.2A to 2.0 [email protected] charger is more appropriate. Even if dash tech will regulate the charge, you still have a time that it will optimize to max power, so more heat.
- Polarity direction changes will decrease life/capacity. This mean, do not charge it if you don't need to.
- do not wait to drain it at 0%, I don't know what is the security factor from OnePLus. A single lithium based batterie under 2.60-2.75V, will mostlikely be dead , or will loose more than 50% of his capacity.
Some lithium based battery will perform better, but to keep low price, do not worry, oneplus use standard li-po.
More developed info here :
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
When the phone is plugged, it doesn't use the battery anymore, therefore the battery is not drained. Once it reaches 100%, it just stays at 100% until you unplug it.
Some says that leaving the charger plugged is not ecological, because it still uses energy even if it doesn't charge anything, but in reality it hardly use energy. I don't remember the numbers, but it is really insignificant.
In the end, there are a lot of superstitions concerning charging and battery life, most coming from old habits and false/outdated information spreading through the internet. The only things very true is that you should avoid letting your battery going to 0%, and don't let your battery overheat, and that's all. Charge when you please, as long as you please, and avoid using low-cost chargers or batteries as some can be dangerous.
I used my Xiaomi Mi3 for 3 years, letting it plugged every night with a QuickCharge charger, and it could still handle a whole day when I finally sold it.