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Plain and simple: When the Evo is fully charged, it begins running off its battery until you plug it back in. It DOES NOT trickle charge whatsoever after it reaches 100%. When you're using your Evo on the charger, and it's showing full 100% charge, it is running off the battery, not the AC plug. And then when you unplug it, well, we all know what happens next. The battery meter drops insanely fast to the actual charge of the battery, which could be very low, depending on how long it's been sitting idle at 100% on your charger.
So all those times you've charged your Evo overnight, only to take it to work the next day and be at 80% within an hour? Your Evo was running off its battery for what I'm guessing was most of the night. It takes my Evo about an hour to two hours to fully charge back to 100%. Let's say you put your Evo on the charger at 11PM, it'll reach full charge by 1AM at the latest, and then run off its battery until whenever you take it off the charger in the morning.
Workarounds?
1) Turn your Evo off while it's charging.
2) If you must leave it on for an alarm clock, put it in airplane mode and end all CPU intensive tasks to minimize battery drain.
3) When you wake up, unplug it for 10-20 minutes (still experimenting with this number), and then plug it back in to top it off. Once it reaches 100%, take it off the charger, and go about your day.
Try it out for yourself. When your Evo is 100% charged, take it off the charger immediately, and I highly doubt you will lose the 10%-15% within minutes. Please share your findings.
Er... Point of note, mine does it even if I pull it off the charger right when it turns green.
Post some technical schematic or other type of proof that shows that this circuitry isn't available in the EVO. That will prove beyond a doubt if what your saying is true.
That being said, only a group of the most retarded electrical engineers would design a charging system as you've described. It is INSANELY easy to build Li-Polymer charging circuitry that does the following (and it pretty much has to do these):
1. Detects battery temperature, and disables charging as a protective measure. In an emergency case it should shut off the device it's powering to allow the battery to cool down. This is a design requirement, or else your house burns down as you dump water on a Lithium fire thinking it's going to put it out. If you have a HERO, you can easily test this. Running the wireless tethering, GPS/Navigation, and Music with the screen running heats up the phone a ton. You'll notice the status light blink green once, then red a couple of times. This means that it's plugged in but not charging. Cool the phone down and it turns solid red again (charging).
2. Disable charging cycle when battery reaches a certain voltage. VERY SIMPLE voltage detection circuitry! The designer can of course adjust a gap to have charging turn back on when it dips below a certain voltage. Usually since this circuitry can be made with a decent amount of precision, that "turn back on" voltage ends up being roughly when the battery discharges to maybe 99.5%. That's just a guess, I admit but there's no harm in having the circuit switch on and off, even if it's often.
There are also a few other circuits that prevent the cell from blowing up in your pocket, like a current sensor to prevent an overcurrent. There's also some stuff that prevents you from being able to discharge the cell below it's avalanche voltage. In case you don't know what that is, when a Li-Ion battery discharges to a certain voltage, it avalanches to 0 (quickly falls). If it hits that point, you've pretty much ruined the battery and it will never charge the same again.
Anyway, this is stuff they taught and had design labs on back in college. While I have no actual proof that the phone wasn't designed as the OP describes, I find it highly unlikely. If this is the behavior that the circuitry exhibits, I would find it easier to believe that it's a design flaw, probably because some idiot didn't compile the correct bill of materials.
I haven't got any schematics or any sort of technical information on the subject. All I know is, it works wonders for me. When I take my Evo off the charger in the morning, it literally drops to ~90% within minutes. Once it does that, if I place it back on the charger for ~20 minutes, it charges back to 100% and stays there for 45 minutes to an hour.
I'd urge anybody who is noticing the immediate 10% to 15% drop in battery to give this a shot.
I would turn it off while I'm charging it overnight, but I use it as my alarm clock
Me Too
I am seeing the exact same behavior as the OP. This is really lame. Because of this, most people will end up losing 10% of their battery every day. Pretty lame.
I charge my phone overnight every night. Never noticed a problem and I just checked my battery and its at 88% and has been off the charger for 2.5hours so I'm not seeing the rapid discharge issue some people are seeing.
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
Grims said:
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm beginning to think that once the battery reaches 100% full, it runs off the battery until it reaches some arbitrary percentage. At which point it starts charging until it reaches 100% again, and then continues this cycle.
I'm testing a few other things right now. Part of me is convinced it reports 100% charge when it's actually below that level.
Krynj said:
I haven't got any schematics or any sort of technical information on the subject. All I know is, it works wonders for me. When I take my Evo off the charger in the morning, it literally drops to ~90% within minutes. Once it does that, if I place it back on the charger for ~20 minutes, it charges back to 100% and stays there for 45 minutes to an hour.
I'd urge anybody who is noticing the immediate 10% to 15% drop in battery to give this a shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try this out to see if I can get the same kind of behavior. I guess I honestly haven't looked to see if the phone drops 10-15% after pulling it off.
Krynj said:
I'm beginning to think that once the battery reaches 100% full, it runs off the battery until it reaches some arbitrary percentage. At which point it starts charging until it reaches 100% again, and then continues this cycle.
I'm testing a few other things right now. Part of me is convinced it reports 100% charge when it's actually below that level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what should be happening I believe, but I'd be surprised if it was set to such a huge swing like 10-15%
Grims said:
I don't think so man, I leave my screen on full brightness while it's charging, and if what you said was true it would go dead on the charger.
I think it's more likely the cells haven’t charged equally, so you get a big initial drop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an interesting theory. I do know that when you have multiple Li-Ion cells in a battery pack, if they discharge unevenly, you have to go off of the lowest charged cell. Again, if a cell were to drop below the avalanche voltage, you'd ruin the pack all together. On the other hand, the circuitry should let ALL cells charge to 100% so it's even again. Maybe they screwed this up, that design isn't so easy! Perhaps it detects one cell as 100% and shuts off the charge. Therefore, one could surmise that if you started with an unevenly charged battery pack, you'd have an immediate decrease in charge to the rating of the lowest charged cell. The good news (maybe) is that this is sometimes implemented with software. That means that HTC could release a bug fix for this, or if we have a savvy dev, they could try to fix it. We just need to prove the theory though.
This is all just a guess, keep that in mind. If I notice something like this with my phone today, maybe I can tear apart the battery and measure the voltage on each cell (if it even has multiple cells). I have a spare, so maybe I'd be up for this. Krynj (or anyone), if you have the HTC Hero, try charging your battery pack with it, see if it exhibits the same behavior on the Hero itself. If it doesn't, then try putting it back into the EVO and see if after a night of charging, it still drops 10-15% after disconnecting it from the AC.
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
Apple laptops don't charge unless battery is below 90%. If you plug in the AC and the battery is above 90%, it will just run off AC power but I don't think the battery drains any then.
My battery life has been less than stellar, but I didn't notice it dropping 10-15% instantly off the charger. I did notice that it'd drop about 10% after driving to work with xiialive streaming, which was unusual to me. The battery would start running out after about 9 hours at work. I'd be in the yellow by the time I got home, and the battery would be complaining for a charge in the evening. So that's roughly 12 hours I would be getting out of the phone after normal use.
Since I'm suspecting an issue with the charging circuitry, I just recently tried charging my battery with the Hero. After it was fully charged, I put it back into my EVO last night and haven't charged it since. It's been running 13 hours, and is still nearly full green. The charge is at about 70%. I've been trying to graph the discharge all day too. It only dropped to 87% over night, dropped to 80% when I drove to work (xiialive), and then down to 74% after I spent some time setting up icons and modifying my home screen. This is...hands down a butt ton better than the past week.
I'm not using 4G.
WiFi is off.
3G is on.
GPS is on.
Not running a live wallpaper.
Sync is running at default settings.
Widgets that could be updating constantly:
I have the Clock/Weather HTC widget running.
I have the Dictionary.com "word of the day" widget.
I have the Friendstream Widget running.
Craigslist Craignotifica app is running, set to notify me with search results.
The results are inconclusive though. Yesterday, I wiped and re-flashed DamageControl 3.2.x from scratch (backed up all apps with Ti-Backup, this means Android Market won't be notifying me if there are app updates -grumble-). So, somewhere between re-flashing and also charging my battery with the Hero caused this turn around.
apollooff320 said:
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting.....Will have to give a try. Will report back later.
I'm waiting for some definitive results with the "use another charging device or battery" method. It seems that the EVO just sucks at recharging the battery since people who have used another phone or a separate charger seem to report better results.
I leave my phone off at night and charge it - when I turn it on in the morning it still drops 5-10% in the first 20 minutes. But during the day it drops REALLY slow, so I still can get about 13-16 hours before 15% easily.
I have manual account sync, 3g only, wifi at home, usually gps is off, auto backlight settings for screen, and I don't run too many apps in the background, I just use them when I need them.
Has anybody found a solution to this? It's really starting to bother me. I've noticed that I don't seem to have the issue if I charge -> recovery -> wipe battery stats -> reboot. That kind of leads me to believe that something is inaccurate about the battery stats and the phone instead uses the actual raw value provided by the battery instead of whatever it is that it does with the battery stats.
I can tell you this, I bought two of the cheap battery chargers off of ebay and I have two OEM evo batteries. I don't even plug my phone in anymore. I get an hour of standby at 100% from those chargers and it falls instantly when charging from the phone. I just run them down then swap them out. I couldn't be happier and they are only like 10 bucks each with 2 batteries each.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
jnewkirk10 said:
I can tell you this, I bought two of the cheap battery chargers off of ebay and I have two OEM evo batteries. I don't even plug my phone in anymore. I get an hour of standby at 100% from those chargers and it falls instantly when charging from the phone. I just run them down then swap them out. I couldn't be happier and they are only like 10 bucks each with 2 batteries each.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you post a link or ebay or where ever u bought it from?
Try this I'm doing it from the phone
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250641711190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1991wt_913
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
apollooff320 said:
The reason why the battery dies so fast has something to do with the memory card. Charge your phone and take the SD card out and watch it stay at 100% for a long as time. Then do it again with the SD card in and watch it dip down fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have apps on your sd card that are running then yes that could be the case. SD cards need power to work but I dont know how much they draw..
Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards
Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.
Nice find!
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.
Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me.
The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.
interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.
Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also
i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message
I am sure most of you have realized the fact that when you unplug the Tab from the charger, even it showed fully charged, the battery drop right down to 99% or 98%, which is not that normal with other android phone.
I took a deeper look here. I have a widget which can monitor the battery voltage. When the Tab is connected to the plug and fully charged, the voltage is showing at around 4150mv, which is the normal fully charged voltage for most of the android phones. The moment you unplugged the charger, the voltage drop to around 4070mv. I guess most of the phone judge the battery level by voltage. The differences of the voltage makes the battery level drop to 99% or 98%.
Another fact I found is that the voltage changes quite a lot when the Tab is on different loads. A simple example is that when I wake my Tab up from a sleep mode (black screen to desktop), I can see that the battery voltage widget showing a 100mv drop. (This can be easily reproduced, just put a battery widget which can show voltage on desktop, lock your screen for a few minutes, after that unlock your Tab and keep looking at your voltage for a few seconds, you will notice the difference).
I basic Physics tell me that this kind of voltage drop is cause by the running current and the internal impedance of the battery. But still I am not so sure about the 100mv drop is normal or not? It is bigger that is should be (causing by the not well made battery which have larger than normal internal impedance)?
Sorry for the English style, it is not my mother tongue. Thank you. More discussion is welcome.
I also notice the last 10 or so percent going in minutes
nothing either of you are describing is abnormal behavior for Lithium ion cells.
almost all of this has been discussed ad nauseum.
crazy talk said:
nothing either of you are describing is abnormal behavior for Lithium ion cells.
almost all of this has been discussed ad nauseum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, there you go
Theres another mystery to be resolved. How come a two amp/hour charger needs four hours to charge a four amp battery instead of the aprox two hours it should take?
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Tiamath99 said:
Theres another mystery to be resolved. How come a two amp/hour charger needs four hours to charge a four amp battery instead of the aprox two hours it should take?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The charging current is not constant. The maximum is 2 amp. But this is probably available when the batter level is very low. As the batter level goes up, the charge current goes down. Meanwhile, the charger would provide power for the device to operate if you were charging it with power on, which uses some of the amps.
The explanation does not satisfy me. It would certainly explain why it charges in a little bit more Time than expected with the 2 amp charger, the problem is that the charging time is about four hours, that's double the time needed for charging.
For example the Archos 70 internet tablet has a 3000 miliamp battery and a 2 amp charger. Time to full recharge? 90 minutes.
As it should be.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Charging current is usually lowered for example when battery overheats while charging. Also, if you use the device while charging, then of course you are slowing down the charging as well.
Tiamath99 said:
The explanation does not satisfy me. It would certainly explain why it charges in a little bit more Time than expected with the 2 amp charger, the problem is that the charging time is about four hours, that's double the time needed for charging.
For example the Archos 70 internet tablet has a 3000 miliamp battery and a 2 amp charger. Time to full recharge? 90 minutes.
As it should be.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, the Archos is not telling the whole truth. It'll try to explain what I know. Lithium based batteries have a two stage (some people say three!!) charging process.
The first phase is the constant current phase, this pumps in as much current as possible (within the constraints of the charger, battery size, battery temperature etc). So with a 2 amp charger the full 2 amps will hit the battery, probably less if the device is switched on as the device will take some of the power from the charger.
The first phase continues until the battery voltage is about 4.1 or 4.2 volts then phase 2 starts. At this point the battery is probably about 70-80% charged. The 2nd phase is a constant voltage charge and will take the charge from 70-80% up to 100%.
The 2nd phase is what takes the time, as the voltage hitting the battery is now fixed at 4.1/4.2 volts the charging current steadily reduces as the battery becomes more charged. Therefore it may take 20 minutes to get from 80% to 90% charged but 40 minutes to get from 90% to 100%.
There is a small graph on the bottom of this web page-
http://shdesigns.org/lionchg.html
So why do some devices take longer to charge then others? Apart from different chargers & size of the battery the other main factor is the charging circuit in the device. Some devices do not do the slower phase 2 charge resulting in a battery that is only 70-80% charged, the device will of course tell you it is 100% charged but it is not, so for example out of the 3000mA/H battery in the Archos only ~2500mA/H will actually be availble. Other devices may push the charge voltage on the phase 2 charge to make it quicker - this is seroiusly bad for the battery though.
Make sense??
faugusztin said:
Charging current is usually lowered for example when battery overheats while charging. Also, if you use the device while charging, then of course you are slowing down the charging as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right but when you charge it with all apps closed and the screen off the power consumition is minimal so it shouldn't affect the charging time very much.
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m2te said:
Hmm, the Archos is not telling the whole truth. It'll try to explain what I know. Lithium based batteries have a two stage (some people say three!!) charging process.
The first phase is the constant current phase, this pumps in as much current as possible (within the constraints of the charger, battery size, battery temperature etc). So with a 2 amp charger the full 2 amps will hit the battery, probably less if the device is switched on as the device will take some of the power from the charger.
The first phase continues until the battery voltage is about 4.1 or 4.2 volts then phase 2 starts. At this point the battery is probably about 70-80% charged. The 2nd phase is a constant voltage charge and will take the charge from 70-80% up to 100%.
The 2nd phase is what takes the time, as the voltage hitting the battery is now fixed at 4.1/4.2 volts the charging current steadily reduces as the battery becomes more charged. Therefore it may take 20 minutes to get from 80% to 90% charged but 40 minutes to get from 90% to 100%.
There is a small graph on the bottom of this web page-
http://shdesigns.org/lionchg.html
So why do some devices take longer to charge then others? Apart from different chargers & size of the battery the other main factor is the charging circuit in the device. Some devices do not do the slower phase 2 charge resulting in a battery that is only 70-80% charged, the device will of course tell you it is 100% charged but it is not, so for example out of the 3000mA/H battery in the Archos only ~2500mA/H will actually be availble. Other devices may push the charge voltage on the phase 2 charge to make it quicker - this is seroiusly bad for the battery though.
Make sense??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wonderful explanation mate.
But still I just can't understand why it took one hour and 50 minutes to go from 10% to 60% . In theory it should be phase 1 charging at full 2 amps hour.
Since the 50% charged is about 2 amps , shouldn't it have charged that amount in an hour?
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I've been wondering this too. I read in other reviews that it takes 3 hours for a full charge but It took me 3.5 hrs to go from 55% to 100%. sounds like samsung is very conservative with it's stages.
The first problem is something that those of us with Droid Incredible devices have had for a long time. Many people resort to bump charging (i.e., charging to 100%, unplugging for a little while, then plugging it in to let it finish charging). It's an annoying problem.
Need help here my xda fellows.
I am not sure if this is normal, but my tab drops from 70% to 58% overnight with flight mode on and no apps opened. (i use lanucher pro if that counts)
Another weird thing is when i turn off the tab and charge, that battery meter only shows about half full and no matter how long i charge it for it stays the same. But then when i fire it up, android system tells me its 98%. And when i try to turn it off and charge it, now the meter shows almost full and will eventually shows that 100% symbol.
It seems to me some ppl get excellent battery life but not in my case. Could there be any problem with the battery? (running jk1 fw non root).
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Another issue is that once the charger hits 100%, it shuts off. While the tab is plugged in and on, it will drain the battery down some...maybe to 95%...before the charger turns back on. However the whole time it is plugged in it will show 100% after having reached max charge.this is by design on almost all new battery devices to prevent damage to the battery and simultaneously prevent people from complaining their battery is draining even though it is plugged in.
This also explains why some people see such a quick drop after unplugging. If they happen to unplug at the bottom of a trickle charge cycle.
Again, not a bug.
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As I have noticed these issues with my Tab as well, these were all very well explained and knowledgable replies.
Just to put in my two cents, I have noticed that the Tab actually seems to charge noticably faster if I leave it on, rather than turning it off. I do, however, usually turn off everything on the power widget and put it into airplane mode as well, mind you. But, the speed in which it recharges while turned on as opposed to the recharge speeds when completely shut off are fairly noticeable.
Anyone else notice this with their Tab or any other device, and/or have some insight regarding why this occurs? Kudos for the previous informative explanations, btw.
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
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One of the annoying things about the 6P is the inaccurate battery charge indicator. It would get to 100% and then trickle charge for anywhere from 30-90 minutes more.
It's annoying enough that reviewers have called Google out on it.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9820/the-google-nexus-6p-review/6
What is worrying is that the battery charge indicator is extremely inaccurate at high charge levels. The device reports 100% much earlier than other devices. In fact there’s still over 2W of power coming into the battery as it reports being fully charged. This goes on for another 40 minutes, representing an actually significant amount of energy representing about 7% of the battery’s true capacity. As such, the Nexus 6P doesn’t receive a good grade in the charge time metric due to its misleading charging indicator behaviour.
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So is there a hack or mod that makes the charge indicator more accurate? (Running the stock ROM but am rooted and have Xposed installed.)
I like to fully charge my 6P so a more accurate indicator would be very helpful.
Thanks!
Perhaps as a side effect of this, when I charge my 6P overnight on an old 2A charger, although it reports reaching 100%, it never resets the battery usage display. This is my normal overnight charge. As a result I can have a week or more of charge/discharge cycles on the graph. It's interesting, but not useful at all. I really wish it would reset the graphs when it hit 100%.
The graph does reset when I use the quick charger that came with the 6P. It also resets correctly when I use the quick charger that I have in the car. Actually, the graphs are normally reset anytime you get over 90% on a charge cycle. Makes no sense that this doesn't happen on a 2A charger.