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Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards
Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.
Nice find!
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.
Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Click to collapse
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
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Click to collapse
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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Click to collapse
AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.
The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.
interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.
Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also
i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message
I am sure most of you have realized the fact that when you unplug the Tab from the charger, even it showed fully charged, the battery drop right down to 99% or 98%, which is not that normal with other android phone.
I took a deeper look here. I have a widget which can monitor the battery voltage. When the Tab is connected to the plug and fully charged, the voltage is showing at around 4150mv, which is the normal fully charged voltage for most of the android phones. The moment you unplugged the charger, the voltage drop to around 4070mv. I guess most of the phone judge the battery level by voltage. The differences of the voltage makes the battery level drop to 99% or 98%.
Another fact I found is that the voltage changes quite a lot when the Tab is on different loads. A simple example is that when I wake my Tab up from a sleep mode (black screen to desktop), I can see that the battery voltage widget showing a 100mv drop. (This can be easily reproduced, just put a battery widget which can show voltage on desktop, lock your screen for a few minutes, after that unlock your Tab and keep looking at your voltage for a few seconds, you will notice the difference).
I basic Physics tell me that this kind of voltage drop is cause by the running current and the internal impedance of the battery. But still I am not so sure about the 100mv drop is normal or not? It is bigger that is should be (causing by the not well made battery which have larger than normal internal impedance)?
Sorry for the English style, it is not my mother tongue. Thank you. More discussion is welcome.
I also notice the last 10 or so percent going in minutes
nothing either of you are describing is abnormal behavior for Lithium ion cells.
almost all of this has been discussed ad nauseum.
crazy talk said:
nothing either of you are describing is abnormal behavior for Lithium ion cells.
almost all of this has been discussed ad nauseum.
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Click to collapse
Well, there you go
Theres another mystery to be resolved. How come a two amp/hour charger needs four hours to charge a four amp battery instead of the aprox two hours it should take?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Tiamath99 said:
Theres another mystery to be resolved. How come a two amp/hour charger needs four hours to charge a four amp battery instead of the aprox two hours it should take?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
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The charging current is not constant. The maximum is 2 amp. But this is probably available when the batter level is very low. As the batter level goes up, the charge current goes down. Meanwhile, the charger would provide power for the device to operate if you were charging it with power on, which uses some of the amps.
The explanation does not satisfy me. It would certainly explain why it charges in a little bit more Time than expected with the 2 amp charger, the problem is that the charging time is about four hours, that's double the time needed for charging.
For example the Archos 70 internet tablet has a 3000 miliamp battery and a 2 amp charger. Time to full recharge? 90 minutes.
As it should be.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Charging current is usually lowered for example when battery overheats while charging. Also, if you use the device while charging, then of course you are slowing down the charging as well.
Tiamath99 said:
The explanation does not satisfy me. It would certainly explain why it charges in a little bit more Time than expected with the 2 amp charger, the problem is that the charging time is about four hours, that's double the time needed for charging.
For example the Archos 70 internet tablet has a 3000 miliamp battery and a 2 amp charger. Time to full recharge? 90 minutes.
As it should be.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
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Hmm, the Archos is not telling the whole truth. It'll try to explain what I know. Lithium based batteries have a two stage (some people say three!!) charging process.
The first phase is the constant current phase, this pumps in as much current as possible (within the constraints of the charger, battery size, battery temperature etc). So with a 2 amp charger the full 2 amps will hit the battery, probably less if the device is switched on as the device will take some of the power from the charger.
The first phase continues until the battery voltage is about 4.1 or 4.2 volts then phase 2 starts. At this point the battery is probably about 70-80% charged. The 2nd phase is a constant voltage charge and will take the charge from 70-80% up to 100%.
The 2nd phase is what takes the time, as the voltage hitting the battery is now fixed at 4.1/4.2 volts the charging current steadily reduces as the battery becomes more charged. Therefore it may take 20 minutes to get from 80% to 90% charged but 40 minutes to get from 90% to 100%.
There is a small graph on the bottom of this web page-
http://shdesigns.org/lionchg.html
So why do some devices take longer to charge then others? Apart from different chargers & size of the battery the other main factor is the charging circuit in the device. Some devices do not do the slower phase 2 charge resulting in a battery that is only 70-80% charged, the device will of course tell you it is 100% charged but it is not, so for example out of the 3000mA/H battery in the Archos only ~2500mA/H will actually be availble. Other devices may push the charge voltage on the phase 2 charge to make it quicker - this is seroiusly bad for the battery though.
Make sense??
faugusztin said:
Charging current is usually lowered for example when battery overheats while charging. Also, if you use the device while charging, then of course you are slowing down the charging as well.
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Click to collapse
Right but when you charge it with all apps closed and the screen off the power consumition is minimal so it shouldn't affect the charging time very much.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
m2te said:
Hmm, the Archos is not telling the whole truth. It'll try to explain what I know. Lithium based batteries have a two stage (some people say three!!) charging process.
The first phase is the constant current phase, this pumps in as much current as possible (within the constraints of the charger, battery size, battery temperature etc). So with a 2 amp charger the full 2 amps will hit the battery, probably less if the device is switched on as the device will take some of the power from the charger.
The first phase continues until the battery voltage is about 4.1 or 4.2 volts then phase 2 starts. At this point the battery is probably about 70-80% charged. The 2nd phase is a constant voltage charge and will take the charge from 70-80% up to 100%.
The 2nd phase is what takes the time, as the voltage hitting the battery is now fixed at 4.1/4.2 volts the charging current steadily reduces as the battery becomes more charged. Therefore it may take 20 minutes to get from 80% to 90% charged but 40 minutes to get from 90% to 100%.
There is a small graph on the bottom of this web page-
http://shdesigns.org/lionchg.html
So why do some devices take longer to charge then others? Apart from different chargers & size of the battery the other main factor is the charging circuit in the device. Some devices do not do the slower phase 2 charge resulting in a battery that is only 70-80% charged, the device will of course tell you it is 100% charged but it is not, so for example out of the 3000mA/H battery in the Archos only ~2500mA/H will actually be availble. Other devices may push the charge voltage on the phase 2 charge to make it quicker - this is seroiusly bad for the battery though.
Make sense??
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Wonderful explanation mate.
But still I just can't understand why it took one hour and 50 minutes to go from 10% to 60% . In theory it should be phase 1 charging at full 2 amps hour.
Since the 50% charged is about 2 amps , shouldn't it have charged that amount in an hour?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
I've been wondering this too. I read in other reviews that it takes 3 hours for a full charge but It took me 3.5 hrs to go from 55% to 100%. sounds like samsung is very conservative with it's stages.
The first problem is something that those of us with Droid Incredible devices have had for a long time. Many people resort to bump charging (i.e., charging to 100%, unplugging for a little while, then plugging it in to let it finish charging). It's an annoying problem.
Need help here my xda fellows.
I am not sure if this is normal, but my tab drops from 70% to 58% overnight with flight mode on and no apps opened. (i use lanucher pro if that counts)
Another weird thing is when i turn off the tab and charge, that battery meter only shows about half full and no matter how long i charge it for it stays the same. But then when i fire it up, android system tells me its 98%. And when i try to turn it off and charge it, now the meter shows almost full and will eventually shows that 100% symbol.
It seems to me some ppl get excellent battery life but not in my case. Could there be any problem with the battery? (running jk1 fw non root).
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Another issue is that once the charger hits 100%, it shuts off. While the tab is plugged in and on, it will drain the battery down some...maybe to 95%...before the charger turns back on. However the whole time it is plugged in it will show 100% after having reached max charge.this is by design on almost all new battery devices to prevent damage to the battery and simultaneously prevent people from complaining their battery is draining even though it is plugged in.
This also explains why some people see such a quick drop after unplugging. If they happen to unplug at the bottom of a trickle charge cycle.
Again, not a bug.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using XDA App
As I have noticed these issues with my Tab as well, these were all very well explained and knowledgable replies.
Just to put in my two cents, I have noticed that the Tab actually seems to charge noticably faster if I leave it on, rather than turning it off. I do, however, usually turn off everything on the power widget and put it into airplane mode as well, mind you. But, the speed in which it recharges while turned on as opposed to the recharge speeds when completely shut off are fairly noticeable.
Anyone else notice this with their Tab or any other device, and/or have some insight regarding why this occurs? Kudos for the previous informative explanations, btw.
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
lin013190 said:
Should I charge it for like 10 hours, then play with it? or you think its ok to just start playing out of the box.
I've heard stories..where you should, and where it's not necessary.
Thanks
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Click to collapse
Mine came nearly full. I just plugged it into charger out of the box and played with it while it was charging
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
With any new phone I always play with it till it dies and then plug it in and charge for 8 hours and then power it on and good to go
Sent from my EVO using xda app-developers app
Hmm, I see.:cyclops:
With every electronic gadget using Lithium-ion batteries nowadays, it doesn't really matter how/when you charge it.
Some would argue to make sure to allow a full discharge from a full charge from a battery calibration point of view, so the battery meter is more accurate. It wouldn't affect the health of the battery itself either way.
Things like memory effect doesn't apply to lithium-ion. How often you charge it and how much you charge it (full or partial charge etc.) doesn't affect it much either. The only 2 things that can potential kill a lithium-ion is high temperature and letting it discharge far too low to the point that it cannot be charged up again. Note that all electronic devices will power off way before it even reaches this threshold.
What makaijin says is correct
I had mine a bit of a charge yesterday but it was no where near full.
Used it till it was flat this morning. It's currently on charge and I'm going to leave it till it's full only because I need to stop messing with it and do other things
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I charged mine for 4 hours before use.
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
hanthesolo said:
Although it is probably not necessary nowadays, I like to fully discharge the device, then charge it overnight (so it gets back up to 100% and tops off), then cycle it that way 2/3 times, so properly "condition" the battery, as I don't 100% trust the conditioning done before shipping.
Just as a side note, most of the battery conditioning lore is coming from way back in the bad ol' nicad days (probably 1990's), when you HAD to 100% discharge/recharge the battery, and make sure it didn't overcharge or undercharge, else it would not be "conditioned" properly, and it had a permanently reduced max charge. Nowadays, expecially with Lion, it is not necessary, and may even be harmful to fully discharge/recharge cycle EVERY time you use it. The first few times it's probably best to do it to fully condition the battery, but beyond that, it really does nothing.
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Click to collapse
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
Ifixit shows that the battery inside the Nexus 7 is Lithium Polymer. Does that make a difference in terms of conditioning compared to Li-Ion batteries?
MaxCarnage said:
"Conditioning" does not occur with li-on batteries, period. Charging/discharging does absolutely nothing for the life of your battery.
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Click to collapse
Oh, thanks. I thought that was my being paranoid .
Lithium Polymer batteries are actually worse than Lithium-Ion. Don't take my word for it, but at least with older RC Lipo batteries, fully discharging damages them even more the lithium-ion. I am sure the tablet cuts off way before the danger point, but still something to keep in mind.
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
phoneman09 said:
I decided to drain the battery all the way and then charge it all the way up. It's charging right now actually, any idea how long it should take to get up to 100%?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Not sure but you can always tap the power button to pull up the battery charge animation. It should let you know when it is fully charged.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
TP_NC_USER said:
Over discharging a Lithium Ion battery can ruin it in a single cycle. Of course any consumer device should shut off before that happens but deep discharges to the shut off point still permanently reduce battery capacity significantly more than shallower discharge cycles.
In simple terms, you'll get significantly more hours of battery use during its lifetime if you only discharge to 50% than 10% or less.
Lithium Ion batteries never need to be "fully discharged" to the device shut off point and as stated above, it isn't "good" for them.
That said, a discharge from fully charged to at or near shutoff let's the device software measure the battery capacity more accurately so you'll get a more accurate battery reading.
Lithium Ion batteries should not be charged at elevated temperatures. If you just watched a two hour movie, let it cool down before charging. A tablet is a nasty place for a battery with the CPU heating it up. Most manufacturers advise not charging at > 85 deg F and 70 deg F is better. A really good charger will measure battery temperature and reduce the max charging rate at elevated temperatures.
Lithium Ion batteries should be stored at 50-70% capacity and not fully charged. That's ~3.7 V per cell. Those of us who use the device a lot on external power would see a lot longer battery life if there was a mode which allowed keeping the battery below 100% while on external power. It seems every manufacturer thinks consumers are too dumb to understand the value of providing it and switching to full charge mode before we run off on battery power.
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Click to collapse
I would rather always have my battery near max charge when I take it off the charger than have a battery last 7 years instead of 3 or 4 in a device I will realistically only use extensively for 2. Even more so with a phone where they battery can replaced for $20. I'll take a full charge every time over the battery lasting for years longer than I need it to.
I have a first gen iPod Touch I bought when they were released (2007 I think?). I have left it on a charger for MONTHS. Still holds a decent charge.
Is there benefit to using a battery calibration app like this if you're rooted?
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nema.batterycalibration&hl=en
You don't have to but I like to. Mine was like 40% charged when I unboxed
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
sRDennyCrane said:
Here's the deal- and this has been verified on multiple devices with larger batteries- Your tablet will need to self-calibrate the battery meter/charging to the battery. You can expect things like sketchy battery life and running down very low or completely overnight for the first couple days. Once everything "syncs up", you can take advantage of the full potential of the battery. This happened with my Razr Maxx and it happened on my Nexus 7's first overnight. And, talking to people who have had their Nexus 7's a few days, it's common and expected.
As said, it is NOT the battery conditioning, it is the device calibrating. The battery is pretty big and there's a period of time while the device learns.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calibration occurs every time the battery is charged to 100%. It isn't a "first few days" type of thing, it is every single time the battery meter reaches 100%.
I had no choice but to completely charge my N7 (purchased from Office Depot 7/14). When I went to turn it on the first time, I was greeted with small text in the upper left side of the screen that said "show low battery logo" on a completely black screen. No logo...no nothing. Completely blank. Plugged it in, the battery charging logo popped up, fully charged it and it's been working great since.
However, I found it a bit odd as I thought most of these types of devices ship with about a 40% battery charge.
Thoughts?
Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
Lithium ion batteries have come a long way. There is no "memory effect" and conditioning is probably not really all that necessary. If I were you I'd just give it a charge to 100 and use as normal. Might have high drain for the first few days/charge cycles.
Remember that with Li-Ion batteries a "charge cycle" is one complete cycle from 0% to 100%. So by charging when it's at 50% you're only using up one half of a "rated charge cycle" - Battery conditioning shouldn't really be required with modern lithium ion batteries.
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
gaff15 said:
Battery conditioning isn't necessary but charging fully and depleting fully will help the phones software learn the battery capacity and give the most accurate percentage remaining reading. I'd say do this a couple times after you first get the phone
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Click to collapse
This makes sense I guess. But wouldn't the battery percentage remaining be based on the voltage in the battery at a given moment? I wouldn't think the phone would need to "learn" that.
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
Xileforce said:
Afaik. It's actually bad to discharge li-ion and li-po batteries down low. I think it's better for battery health to recharge around 50% for instance than waiting until 0%.
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The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
Ashevar said:
The 50% mark is an old(and still good) rule of thumb primarily for lead acid batteries.
Leaving these batteries in a discharged state can be bad for them, but in normal usage even a discharge to 0% is fine if followed shortly by a charge cycle. These devices have a low voltage cutoff which is what shuts the phone down and protects the battery from over discharge and damage. Bottom line is use and charge it however you like, the only thing that may change is the time it takes the software to learn your discharge profile and show accurate stats.
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This makes sense. The article I read awhile back was likely referring to non smart charging systems, such as a battery pack. It makes sense that an integrated solution such as a phone would regulate that to maintain battery health.
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
meyerweb said:
There are three things that are very bad for Li batteries. 1: overcharging. 2: completely draining. 3: overheating. Li batteries are happiest, and will last the longest, if never cycled above 75% or below 25%. Cars like the Tesla actually show 100% charge when the battery pack is only about 75% charged, and show the battery as depleted well above 0% charge. Then again, the battery pack for a Tesla costs a lot more than a phone.
#1 shouldn't be a problem in any modern device. The circuitry in the battery will tell the phone when to shut down charging to prevent overcharge. #3 can be a problem. If you're charging the battery simultaneously with high battery draining phone usage (e.g., GPS and Nav) phones can get very hot. In fact, I've had my phone stop charging and display a warning when I was navigating and charging the phone wirelessly at the same time. If you're using GPS on a long trip, you almost have to charge it while in use, but might want to avoid wireless or fast chargers. Wireless chargers and fast chargers generate more heat.
#2 is up to you. Repeatedly discharging the battery to single digits will reduce it's lifespan. I try to recharge before 25% but if I get into a situation where I can't I don't obsess over it. I don't worry too much about charging to 100%. I suspect that, like Tesla, 100% is probably not really 100%. The battery manufacturers are likely to leave a little safety margin in there to ensure batteries can't overheat and catch fire.
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#1 -> Could be a problem. Manufacturers can set the 100% mark at higher voltage to make it look like it has more capacity while sacrificing longevity, just enough to get through the 1 year warranty period. (Lot of powerbanks do this!) Users have no control of this ceiling. Charging to 80% and letting it cycle below that probably keeps the battery much healthier than keeping it plugged overnight at 100%.
There's an app called AccuBattery on playstore that people might want to check out. It's basically an alarm that turns on when the battery is at desired % level. It also cites real research papers so I would trust what they are doing.
I used to have a long post with a detailed technical explanation but lost it.
Anyway the gist is, basically, batteries work by ion movement, and like a machine, these ions wear out over time due to use. And similar to machines, heavy use wears them out more. You're more likely to break an engine by running it for 1 day at max rev, than running it over a month at half capacity. The smaller the depth of discharge, the lower the wear. Lab tests have concluded that when you constantly discharge from 100 to 0, it allows you betwrrn 300-500 charge cycles before it starts to break down and not hold charges. More specifically, when you reach that magic number your battery can only hold 75% of it's original charge. That's typically 1-2 years of use if you charge once a day. And heavy abusers charge more than once a day, so that decreases the time span to however many weeks it takes them to reach 500 charge cycles. Now, the increase in charge cycles is exponential, not arithmetical. So a depth of discharge to 50 before recharging will not give you 600-1000 charges. Rather it will give you 1200-1500 charge cycles. Mathematically, draining a 3600mah to zero for 300 charges gives you 1080000mah to burn through however short your battery life will be. On the other hand, using only 50% of the battery before recharging gives you 2160000mah to burn through before it expires after at least 1200 charge cycles. In other words, it stored twice more power for you to use. If you say, charge once every 24hrs, going always from 100 to 0 gives you at least 300 days. Recharging twice a day at 50% gives your battery at least 600 days of use before battery capacity deteriorates noticeably. Discharging to 75% before recharging actually gives you 2000-2500 charge cycles, making it even longer. Basically the point is, always plug the phone in when given the chance. Don't wait for 50%, or whatever. 40% is an arbitrary number actually, not sure why it's chosen. Also, this is why one of the choices to auto activate power saving in the S7 is at 50%, so that it keeps the battery up as close to 50% as possible when you get the chance to plug in.
As for charging to 80%, this is because partial charge is better than full charge for lithium ion batteries. The ions are placed on stress to hold charges. Maximum stress is at 100% charge. And like everything else, stuff tends to break more. So not running it to 100% all the time will reduce overall stress experienced and increase the time before deterioration occurs. Personally I charge to 90%, and discharge to 40% or above. That's a 50% depth of charge, so that's good for up to 1500 charge cycles, plus whatever number of cycles the decrease in max stress gives me.
However, note that environmental temperatures also play a role in battery longevity.
Sent from my Galaxy S7 Edge Duos via Tapatalk
just use the dang phone...
cri[LIST=1 said:
[/LIST]s_epic;65635276]Hey guys, I recieve my s7 edge today, whats the best way to condition the new phones battery? Some use what it has until its low to recharge until 100 others leave phone off and charge to 100 at start, whats the best result for a good healthy battery?,
Thanks
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That's actually a perfect way to ruin your battery on purpose!
Just do these things and Don't worry a lot. And remember, when it does die it's not your fault, it's kind of a problem with Lion batteries!
1. Try to keep the battery between 40-80% or 20-40%. But don't worry if tou can't. Saying this in case you're staying at home all day.
2.Keep the heat away from it!!! This one is important
3. Try to discharge it at a lower rate but don't let that get in the way of you enjoying your device.
4. Try not to discharge below 8% at all. But try to not discharge it below 15-20% unless you have important things to do.
5. don't keep it topped of for a long time (like constant going 90-100%, this is damaging) and don't keep it at 100% for long! (For example turning it off and stop using it for a week, or keeping it plugged for a few days)
If you're storing it keep it at 40% (3.8-3.75V) and try to drain it once in a while. (Unlikely to happen with a phone specially one without a removable battery )
I really do hope someone invents a new type of battery. Lipos are anoyying
Simple you don't need too lol
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app
Hello,
I am doing an experiment since few days ago. I noticed that if you disable the Fast Charging, and (most importantly) use a proper, thick 2A USB cable (I use a Kindle Fire original cable) then the battery lasts around 15-20% longer.
How to recognize that you got a proper USB charging cable ? With fast charging disabled and the battery empty, the phone should tell you that there are around 2 hours until full (instead of the usual 7 hours or so with fast charging disabled). That's when you know that you are using the proper cable. I bought a original Kindle Fire cable from Amazon and that is very solid, much thicker than the standard cable. See attached screenshot. With the standard cable this seems to be a hit and miss, you sometimes get the 2 hours message and sometimes the 7 hours message.
I repeated the experiment 3 times and each time I got significantly better battery life than before.
You may want to try it to see if it works for you.
PS: Attached is my latest battery life screenshot (APC8 firmware), which is the third charge since the experiment. 2 days 6 hours of stand-by with 5h SOT on a mix of 80% Wi-Fi, 20% 4G with nothing disabled (even Bluetooth is permanently connected to the LG smartwatch). Almost no videos played, only web page browsing which is quite demanding on battery.
Look if new software update is possible.
Yeah, I noticed that my battery life was worse when I used a ****ty 1 Ah Sony charger when I displaced the original Samsung charger. It took about 3 hours to charge it up to 100%, but then I noticed that the battery life would be worse than before. I found the original charger again, and battery life is back to being good again. I never use fast charging, unless it's in the middle of the day and I'm heading out or something.
None of the things mentioned above should (technically) have any impact on battery life once unplugged? I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
Nothing new, I've always noticed that if I charge the phone with the original charger and fast charging disabled it will last much longer.
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
None of this solutions should impact battery life Oo. Energy is energy, no matter where it comes from?!
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
Do you have the newest android version installed?
By the way, I only charge with original charger and cable, fast charge disabled (battery life is longer?!)
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it.
I always had far better battery life than most people complain about.
BTW, I also tried charging battery keeping phone switched on at 10-15% charge remaining, battery definitely performed weaker for my use.
So that confirmed my theory based on my usage over last 7 years..
thegame2388 said:
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
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Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
J.Biden said:
I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
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BigDoun2011 said:
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
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I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
Cst79 said:
Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
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So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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Ah okay. I went ahead and bought one!
It ' also the logical thing. With fast charging , the battery holds less charge than the "normal . " He just spoke in various forums of this.
Anyway , great idea.
How to maintain max battery life span (reliable source):
Perform shallow discharges. Instead of discharging to 0% all the time, lithium-ion batteries do best when you discharge them for a little bit, then charge them for a little bit. The table below, from Battery University, shows that discharges to 50% are better for your battery's long-term life than, say, small discharges to 90% or large discharges to 0% (since the 50% discharges provide the best number of cycles-to-usage ratio).
·Don't leave it fully charged. Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. In fact, they'd prefer not to be—so the 40%-80% rule you heard is a good guideline. When possible, keep it in that range to prolong its life as long as you can. And, if you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health. If you need to charge it overnight, use something like the Belkin Conserve Socket to stop it from charging after it's full.
·Fully discharge it once a month. This may seem contradictory, but hear us out. While lithium-ion batteries shouldn't be discharged regularly, most modern batteries are what's known as "smart batteries", which means that they can tell you how long you have until your battery dies (e.g. "2 hours, 15 minutes remaining"). This feature can get miscalibrated after a lot of shallow discharges. So, manufacturers recommend fully discharging your battery once a month to make sure this stays accurate.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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But you stated that it increases battery life.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
Outbreak444 said:
What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
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You can try it for yourself (if you have an S7/Edge) and report the results here. I posted my results, I'm not an expert, I just tried this. I also tried the 7-hour slow charge (with a different charger) and it didn't work as well as the 2-hour charge. The 2 hour charge seems to work best.
Yeah, If you use fast charging the battery dies a little bit quicker. I recommend fast charging if you are in hurry.
I only use fast charge when I'm in hurry.. Nice feature! I try to charge my phone between 25-80%...
p2kin said:
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it..
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Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
meyerweb said:
Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
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I disagree, even though it switches off itself, it still has charge, don't go by it says 1%.. so it's not fully discharged... besides my method served a good battery life to me over the years with earlier phone models