Hello,
I am doing an experiment since few days ago. I noticed that if you disable the Fast Charging, and (most importantly) use a proper, thick 2A USB cable (I use a Kindle Fire original cable) then the battery lasts around 15-20% longer.
How to recognize that you got a proper USB charging cable ? With fast charging disabled and the battery empty, the phone should tell you that there are around 2 hours until full (instead of the usual 7 hours or so with fast charging disabled). That's when you know that you are using the proper cable. I bought a original Kindle Fire cable from Amazon and that is very solid, much thicker than the standard cable. See attached screenshot. With the standard cable this seems to be a hit and miss, you sometimes get the 2 hours message and sometimes the 7 hours message.
I repeated the experiment 3 times and each time I got significantly better battery life than before.
You may want to try it to see if it works for you.
PS: Attached is my latest battery life screenshot (APC8 firmware), which is the third charge since the experiment. 2 days 6 hours of stand-by with 5h SOT on a mix of 80% Wi-Fi, 20% 4G with nothing disabled (even Bluetooth is permanently connected to the LG smartwatch). Almost no videos played, only web page browsing which is quite demanding on battery.
Look if new software update is possible.
Yeah, I noticed that my battery life was worse when I used a ****ty 1 Ah Sony charger when I displaced the original Samsung charger. It took about 3 hours to charge it up to 100%, but then I noticed that the battery life would be worse than before. I found the original charger again, and battery life is back to being good again. I never use fast charging, unless it's in the middle of the day and I'm heading out or something.
None of the things mentioned above should (technically) have any impact on battery life once unplugged? I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
Nothing new, I've always noticed that if I charge the phone with the original charger and fast charging disabled it will last much longer.
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
None of this solutions should impact battery life Oo. Energy is energy, no matter where it comes from?!
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
Do you have the newest android version installed?
By the way, I only charge with original charger and cable, fast charge disabled (battery life is longer?!)
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it.
I always had far better battery life than most people complain about.
BTW, I also tried charging battery keeping phone switched on at 10-15% charge remaining, battery definitely performed weaker for my use.
So that confirmed my theory based on my usage over last 7 years..
thegame2388 said:
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
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Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
J.Biden said:
I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
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BigDoun2011 said:
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
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I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
Cst79 said:
Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
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So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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Ah okay. I went ahead and bought one!
It ' also the logical thing. With fast charging , the battery holds less charge than the "normal . " He just spoke in various forums of this.
Anyway , great idea.
How to maintain max battery life span (reliable source):
Perform shallow discharges. Instead of discharging to 0% all the time, lithium-ion batteries do best when you discharge them for a little bit, then charge them for a little bit. The table below, from Battery University, shows that discharges to 50% are better for your battery's long-term life than, say, small discharges to 90% or large discharges to 0% (since the 50% discharges provide the best number of cycles-to-usage ratio).
·Don't leave it fully charged. Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. In fact, they'd prefer not to be—so the 40%-80% rule you heard is a good guideline. When possible, keep it in that range to prolong its life as long as you can. And, if you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health. If you need to charge it overnight, use something like the Belkin Conserve Socket to stop it from charging after it's full.
·Fully discharge it once a month. This may seem contradictory, but hear us out. While lithium-ion batteries shouldn't be discharged regularly, most modern batteries are what's known as "smart batteries", which means that they can tell you how long you have until your battery dies (e.g. "2 hours, 15 minutes remaining"). This feature can get miscalibrated after a lot of shallow discharges. So, manufacturers recommend fully discharging your battery once a month to make sure this stays accurate.
Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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But you stated that it increases battery life.
thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
Outbreak444 said:
What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
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You can try it for yourself (if you have an S7/Edge) and report the results here. I posted my results, I'm not an expert, I just tried this. I also tried the 7-hour slow charge (with a different charger) and it didn't work as well as the 2-hour charge. The 2 hour charge seems to work best.
Yeah, If you use fast charging the battery dies a little bit quicker. I recommend fast charging if you are in hurry.
I only use fast charge when I'm in hurry.. Nice feature! I try to charge my phone between 25-80%...
p2kin said:
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it..
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Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
meyerweb said:
Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
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I disagree, even though it switches off itself, it still has charge, don't go by it says 1%.. so it's not fully discharged... besides my method served a good battery life to me over the years with earlier phone models
Related
before everybody tells me the search function, I already have but I find mixed and contradiction answers on this issue. Some people say to do a full discharge followed by a full recharge as soon as you get the phone. Then on the other hand some people say that you shouldn't do this since the x1 uses a li-ion and its bad for it. Some people say you should charge it only when it's near empty, but on the other hand some people say to keep charging it as often as possible. Some say to take it off the charger once its fully charged, but then some say its ok to leave a fully charged battery on the charger.
As you can see, from searching the forum I've gotten pretty confused. so what is the PROPER way to charge our x1 battery? Is it also true that battery life gets better the more you put it on the charger? Does the x1i get better battery life than the x1a? I'm asking this because I'm gettin very poor battery life on my x1 compared to the 1-3 days of heavy usage that I see other people gettin on this forum. I'm going to exchange it today for a new one, so I don't want to make the same mistakes with charging my battery as I did with the first one.
Charging:
Do charge the battery often.
The battery lasts longer with partial rather than full discharges.
Discharging:
Avoid full cycle because of wear.
80% depth-of-discharge recommended.
Re- charge more often. Avoid full discharge.
Low voltage may cut off safety circuit.
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From:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm
dogans said:
From:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-21.htm
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that is very true......i get better life (3days) when i charge from 50%. otherwise i barely get more than 24hr.
thanks, that helps a lot! but what do I do once the battery has finished fully charging on the charger? should I take it off or is it fine to still leave it on the charger?
i have noticed this today,
i have installed a battery indicator bar (i cant remember which one) i charged my my X1 during night, when i woke up, i found that the phone is not charging and the battery is full. so i think that the phone automatically stopps charging when the battery reaches 100%
anyone can confirm that?
Not sure about the way to charge it, but i can comment on your current battery life. when i got mine, i had 1 days battery life, but after flashing it, i'm now getting between 3-4 days......
i used
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=458768
Glad to see that there are people that read the "real" stuff (I'm talking about dogans), the batteryuniversity site is mantained by the very battery fabricants, so their opinions are the best informed ones, even if they might bias a little to keep the bussiness "healthy".
However, any Lithium battery should not be fully discharged -at least not often-, because the full discharge shortens their life.
Usually, good chargers do control the charging parameters (battery's voltage, current and temperature curves) while it charges and "know" when to stop, even if they really don't stop ever (normally), the go in "tickle" charging mode, to keep the battery "fully" charged.
Hope this helps.
The article on Wikipedia about Li-Ion batteries is quite informative as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
It specifies the technology, the do's, the dont's and usefull tips in keeping your battery in good condition.
hey everyone , i am having a problem my first recharge session for the xperia when the batter was fully drained was about 9 hours? is this normal ? for the first couple of times , i am recharging my phone through the usb cable from my computer directly ?
Please Advise
I've never charged mine through my computer, only synced. I will say it took very long to charge at first. I'd recommend using the wall charger and charging every night instead of letting it drain all the way.
Wall charger is the best choice, unless u have got a battery charger & patience to take off & put on the battery cover every time.
I doubt whether it is necessary to charge x1 every night?
I also find that using a wall charger gives a much quicker charge time and to my eyes a longer lasting charge... I only charge when it gets down to 20-40% so it could last as long as 4 days... (usually 2)
wallcharger takes about 2 hours till its full.
USB however takes far longer. not sure why but i guess the ma/h used for USB is probably far lower then a wallcharger
Yes, USB charging is slower than normal charging as the USB port can provide max 500 mAh, my old K800i on usb charging can arrive max 92% even after 6 hours connected, while on wall charging it is full in less than 2 hours.
And regarding this question, i have another question:
Will usb charging work with any usb wall charger? i leave the wall charger at home, and at work i use USB charging, but a co-worker has a motorola phone with a wall USB charging charger, can i use it safely on my Xperia?
mcbyte_it said:
And regarding this question, i have another question:
Will usb charging work with any usb wall charger? i leave the wall charger at home, and at work i use USB charging, but a co-worker has a motorola phone with a wall USB charging charger, can i use it safely on my Xperia?
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Yes, if you check that Motorola output parameters are the same of our SE wall charger.
Thanks
Guys i did charge it from the wall charger and it took less then an hour to charge the remaining 50% which is great guessing so its going to take around 2 hours to full charge it from zero , , thanks for the help
I've got a split cable (two usb ports into one) that came with a portable USB HDD. It works faster when charging off USB.
also if you want faster charge time then make sure the X1 is switched off completely.
recharging ... Saving the battery
what i understand the the slower you charge the battery the longer the battery life ;it could stay with you for more then a year with good battery life
on the other hand quick charging the battery will decrease the overall age of battery you are going to change it with in a year or two
i am not sure of this info for cellphone batteries but 100% sure regarding the laptop lithium batteries
please correct me if i am wrong
mtaher said:
what i understand the the slower you charge the battery the longer the battery life ;it could stay with you for more then a year with good battery life
on the other hand quick charging the battery will decrease the overall age of battery you are going to change it with in a year or two
i am not sure of this info for cellphone batteries but 100% sure regarding the laptop lithium batteries
please correct me if i am wrong
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As far as I know, the asnwer is yes for the first part. The slower the charging time, the longer the battery will last (theorically).
But, the time horizon is not 1-2 years. It is actually longer than that, 2-3 years for cellphones and 4-5 for laptop (own an HP from June 2005, still getting 3h of battery life out of it!).
There are lots of conditions that affect the life of a battery, check out at http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ for more info (that's a real useful site, up to me!)
fards said:
I've got a split cable (two usb ports into one) that came with a portable USB HDD. It works faster when charging off USB.
also if you want faster charge time then make sure the X1 is switched off completely.
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Hmmm... great idea man... but I am wondering if it could affect the battery. Which is the total mah supplied?! is it less than the wall charger one? that info could definitively chamge my mind about the split cable
1) USB charge is way slower
2) Wall is about 2 -3 hrs
3) GSM plus average usage, 1.5 days of use
4) 3G plus average usage 1 days
what my laptop battery care program does to prolong live is that it maintains a max 80% charge. perhaps this is same for all battery?
[email protected] thanks for the update , tell me what your going to do .. fast charge or slow charge?
mtaher said:
what i understand the the slower you charge the battery the longer the battery life ;it could stay with you for more then a year with good battery life
on the other hand quick charging the battery will decrease the overall age of battery you are going to change it with in a year or two
i am not sure of this info for cellphone batteries but 100% sure regarding the laptop lithium batteries
please correct me if i am wrong
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Please consider using punctuation, as your text is completely unreadable.
mtaher said:
[email protected] thanks for the update , tell me what your going to do .. fast charge or slow charge?
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Sincerely, it doesn't matter for me. 4 year is way too long and I never had a phone for that period, so I really do not care about it. The only thing I pay attention is to always fully charge and discharge the battery, every time.
Consider that the first bound to a battery life is its recharge cycles. Probably 90% of batteries dies/loose power because of too many charge/discharge cycles, the 10% left for other reasons (fast charge, totally drained power, heat, etc.)
mcbyte_it said:
Yes, USB charging is slower than normal charging as the USB port can provide max 500 mAh, my old K800i on usb charging can arrive max 92% even after 6 hours connected, while on wall charging it is full in less than 2 hours.
And regarding this question, i have another question:
Will usb charging work with any usb wall charger? i leave the wall charger at home, and at work i use USB charging, but a co-worker has a motorola phone with a wall USB charging charger, can i use it safely on my Xperia?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I use my old Motorola V3i charger to charge the Xperia, no problems.
[email protected] said:
As far as I know, the asnwer is yes for the first part. The slower the charging time, the longer the battery will last (theorically).
But, the time horizon is not 1-2 years. It is actually longer than that, 2-3 years for cellphones and 4-5 for laptop (own an HP from June 2005, still getting 3h of battery life out of it!).
There are lots of conditions that affect the life of a battery, check out at http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ for more info (that's a real useful site, up to me!)
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the website doesn't say much about Lithium-Polymer batteries as opposed to Lithium-Ion which is all over the site. Li-Poly is what Xperia is using. I think you shouldn't overheat the battery when charging because heat will drasticaly degrade the battery life.
Yeh
Yeh, as a note to some former replied.
Li-Po (Lithium Polymer) batteries need to be kept in check, overheating can make them dangerous and explosive as well as reducing their life cycle.
Which point you charge the battery from with Li-Po does not mattery as long as the correct "conditioning" cycles are completed when new.
Also, as a note, I have once or twice attempted to charge my Xperia from the USB port on my laptop(plugged in) over night, only to find the battery of the Xperia was totally dead the next morning.
The USB ports of my laptop provide 500mA (standard) and the charger for the Xperia is 700mA so not a significant difference, but I guess other things affect the the USB ports on laptop (including Windows 7 having the ability to disable US ports to "save power").
It most probably assume the "device" connected is wasting power and so disables it. Although we want it to charge. Same goes for Windows Vista. This option can be disabled though.
MrLeche said:
the website doesn't say much about Lithium-Polymer batteries as opposed to Lithium-Ion which is all over the site. Li-Poly is what Xperia is using. I think you shouldn't overheat the battery when charging because heat will drasticaly degrade the battery life.
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Yes, but wall charging while using connected wifi does heat the battery relatively quickly (my Polaris, Li ion, gets vaguely warm, not as obviously heated as the X1 battery)
I've tested this with a new replacement battery - careful overnight charging when new - and similar behaviour still results
This has convinced me that the X1 has a serious weakness, as charging while wifi connected is a long-standing work habit. If the wifi is connected without charging, a usable time of 2-3 hours is all you get (no good )
Hi!
I'm about to receive the Kindle Fire, and I try to cure my curiosity by finding answers to all my questions. XDA has answered most of them, but I've one more question I hope you can help me with.
I know I'll spend a lot of time using the Kindle Fire at home, mostly reading and listening to music. My question is therefore: How should I charge and use the Kindle? Let's say the battery is 100%, and I plug in the charger and start reading - will the Kindle continue to charge it, use some, charge it (100%, 98%, 100%, 98%...), or stop the charging completely and power it directly from the charger?
Will I shorten the lifetime of the battery by plugging in the charger if the battery level is 100%? I know it's good for the battery to be used, so I'll of course do that from time to time.
hachiueno said:
Hi!
I'm about to receive the Kindle Fire, and I try to cure my curiosity by finding answers to all my questions. XDA has answered most of them, but I've one more question I hope you can help me with.
I know I'll spend a lot of time using the Kindle Fire at home, mostly reading and listening to music. My question is therefore: How should I charge and use the Kindle? Let's say the battery is 100%, and I plug in the charger and start reading - will the Kindle continue to charge it, use some, charge it (100%, 98%, 100%, 98%...), or stop the charging completely and power it directly from the charger?
Will I shorten the lifetime of the battery by plugging in the charger if the battery level is 100%? I know it's good for the battery to be used, so I'll of course do that from time to time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The life spam of the charger will shorten but not the kindle. If ur kindle is at 100 then the charger wellkeep it at 100.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
If im not mistaken, I believe its good to fully drain and recharge your battery once in a while(since the battery is li-ion) to maintain the lifespan of the battery.
As for needing to be tethered to the wall by the charger, I have not found that as something I need to do at home, especially since I prefer to move around.
In short you can just use the kindle normally while letting the battery normally discharge and then recharge it when it starts to get low. To help with the battery life you should also adjust the brightness according to the light.
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
hachiueno said:
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
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You don't need to worry about kindle fire battery, trust me, it's very good. My Kindle Fire doesn't get charged when the AC Adapter is connected, don't know if it's only me since I don't use an US Charger. I can charge only in sleep mode.
Remember to turn wifi off when you don't need it, even if it is in sleep mode. You will see that the battery will last much longer with wifi off.
Regarding charging kindle fire, I always use it till 30% and then I charge it Full.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
My battery is sometimes lasting over 4 days with light use so charging is not a frequent thing. I always drain the battery to less than 5% before recharging. I can start a 25 minutes tv show when I'm at less than 10% and not worry about the battery dying before the show is over.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
hachiueno said:
Yes, thank you for your answers The reason as to why I'm a bit concerned about this is that I've seen laptop batteries' capacities getting seriously reduced after having the battery installed while having the charger connected simultaneously at all times. I guess this is due to bad charging control, and that the chargers have tried to charge the batteries even though they were 100%.
Since the Kindle Fire has a non-removable battery (more or less...), I would like to treat my battery as good as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These Li-Ion batteries and charging circuits have built in protection circuits to prevent themselves from ever being overcharged (because overcharging a LiIon battery can cause thermal runaway, i.e. it gets extremely hot and then explodes).
That problem you've seen with laptop batteries can still happen to any Li-Ion battery though (assuming those were Li-Ion laptop batteries too. NiMh batters have their own problems). The problem isn't overcharging the battery but in keeping it at a high charge state for a long time without cycling it. I don't know where these figures come from, but I've been told that to maintain consistent battery life over time you should let your Li-Ion batterys run down every two weeks or so, that for long-term storage when not being used they should be left at around 40% charge, and that not charging them past 80% full can even extend the life of the battery
I don't fancy myself a battery expert, but damn are there some shady information here.
Here's the "down low":
For Li-based batteries (pretty much all modern electronics), they have limited life from the get go, a limited charge cycle (how many times it can get discharged / charged).
If you leave it plugged in at all times, despite what you may think, this will actually KILL the battery very quickly. Why? Batteries are not kept charged at full 100% (it can cause long-term damage if it does so). It charges to 100%, and drains up to 10%, and keeps it steady at that level. If it gets lower, it recharges again (there goes your limited charge cycle in a flash).
What you should do is charge it full, unplug, and recharge when it's "used" (e.g. 30-80%), not when it's almost full (waste of the cycle), or when it's almost empty (suffers too much stress).
Avoid hot areas (leaving the battery / device in a hot car), as heat also reduces the lifetime of the cycles.
For long term storage, as boomn said, 40%, cool and dry place is ideal.
For more info, read it here at Battery University.
Ignore everything above for Ni-based batteries. I won't go into details on prolonging Ni-based battery's life since it's not relevant here, but you can read up on that site Battery University (charging and discharging).
Thank you so much for your replies! A lot of great information here, especially your last answer, Printerscape. Hope to keep my battery in shape for a long time.
Can't wait to get my Kindle... and yes, first 100%, then I'll unplug it and use it for some hours. It will be interesting to see if user replaceable batteries will be offered for the Kindle Fire in the future. After having seen the iFixit teardown, it seems to be a reasonable task.
Printerscape said:
What you should do is charge it full, unplug, and recharge when it's "used" (e.g. 30-80%), not when it's almost full (waste of the cycle), or when it's almost empty (suffers too much stress).
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I was under the impression that a charge cycle doesn't happen every time you get to 100%. Say you run it down to 50%, charge it to 100%, run it down to 50% then charge it to 100% again, only then it would count as a full charge cycle.
dragossh said:
I was under the impression that a charge cycle doesn't happen every time you get to 100%. Say you run it down to 50%, charge it to 100%, run it down to 50% then charge it to 100% again, only then it would count as a full charge cycle.
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This is my impression as well. Apple mentions the same thing regarding charging and cycles: http://www.apple.com/batteries/:
For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle.
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I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
This is a question i would like to know the answer to as well
I did a slow charge last night and the battery seemed to discharge s little slower this morning fwiw, but that's not terribly scientific.
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
Darnell_Chat_TN said:
There's already a thread for this. No, it doe not harm battery life.
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Could you please point me towards that thread? I didn't locate it with a few search combinations. Thanks.
Mississip said:
I'm wondering if the heat I hear about being generated before the charging rate slows down after 50% would have any negative impact on battery life. Would there be any benefit in using my multi-port charger for overnight charges when I am not in a hurry to charge the battery?
Also, I assume that the battery doesn't have any memory, and that there's no reason to break it in, fully discharge periodically, etc. and that it's okay to charge a little or a lot regardless of the current charge state. Is that correct?
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Click to collapse
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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wrong. the only thing that damages cells is charging beyond the voltage specifications. How fast you dump electrons in has no negative effects, its only when you put too many in that batteries get damaged.
Locklear308 said:
Fast Charging Lithium = Battery damage. It's basic chemistry. The cells take mechanical damage from expanding too quickly. So, for best longevity, charge her with like a .7 to 1 amp charger.
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Click to collapse
Thank you. I had thought the same thing. No one had the time to give me any detailed information, so I researched. I can't post links, but the following articles are helpful and will show up first in a search for the title
'Will speed chargers kill your battery?'
'BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers'
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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Exactly.
dalingrin said:
A conventional phone charger can only supply the current and voltage that is safe for a battery at all charge levels. In other words, it is must use the least common denominator. Quick Charge makes this process much more active by monitoring max current, max voltage, and temperature so that it can supply more power when it is safe and less power when it is not. Quick Charge will always keep the current, voltage, and temperature within the battery's designed specifications.
In terms of battery memory effect, no, modern lithium based batteries do not have any sort of memory-like effect. This is mostly associated with older and cheaper NiCad type batteries. This is one of those things that people seem to have a really hard time moving past.
People worry far too much about babying their battery.
Assuming you are going to use the phone for ~2 years then a properly designed fast charger should have a negligible effect on battery life. After 2 years of continuous usage all bets are off whether you used a fast charger or not.
If you really want to worry about how to treat your battery then there are two things you should try not to do. Don't let the battery go all the way to 0% and let it sit like that for a year. Don't leave your phone on your dash in direct sunlight everyday. Outside of those two things there's not much you can do to change the lifetime of your battery so just use the damn thing. =P
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I had researched the topic and learned what you have stated, but I really appreciate you taking the time to write this fuller explanation. I wished to take every reasonable precaution to maximize battery life, given the battery is not easily replaced.
There have been references published claiming that charging faster (higher current) shortens overall Li-Ion battery life.
Mechanism may be related to heat.
One thing the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (used in the Snapdragon 808) does is increase voltage at the charger from standard USB 5V, to 9V and 12V, for higher charge rates (power) at still-moderate current (to keep heat dissipation down).
I measured 1.1 to 2.3 amps at ~9V with QC 2.0 charger on the MXPE, with the higher current measurements at lower State of Charge (SoC). Have not seen 12V yet, but I only tried it down to 45% SoC (2.3 amps at 9V), I imagine it bumps up to 12V when the battery is discharged further, nearer to complete discharge.
This charger is rated for
5V, 4A
9V, 2.22A
12V, 2.5A
20V, 1.0A
So the max power fed to the battery would be 28W (12V*2.5A).
(This is the Power Partners PEAW30-12-USB, supposedly a 30W charger. So much for integrity in advertising.)
So the current is kept to a manageable level to control heat dissipation (therefore max temperatures), from the charger to (somewhere in the phone). But I believe that at the battery itself, more rapid charging (higher power) would still require higher current, because voltages have to be limited in the battery itself, so one would think heat dissipation (> max temperatures) would still be a problem in the battery itself. Does that shorten battery life?
The answer is probably: Who cares. Because: Li-Ion batteries have a 2-3 year life in any case, regardless of their service life or even if they are not used at all. They age and exhibit substantial capacity decline over time. Discharge/charge cycles hasten the capacity decline, but the battery is only good for 2-3 years, give or take, no matter what. And since aftermarket replacement batteries are inferior, unsafe, and stale, there is no reason to try to hang on to your phone for more than 2-3 years in any case. (Especially since the "non-user-replaceable" batteries can be a pain in the a** to R&R. The Moto X Pure 2015 battery is one of those. Some phones actually incur permanent damage to seals if the battery is removed/replaced - the Kyocera Hydro Wave is this way.)
You say "but you could replace the battery with an OEM battery". There are two types of OEM Li-Ion phone batteries on the market that an individual consumer can buy retail, when their phone is 2 years old or more: Used stale batteries (look up "reverse logistics"), and "new" (i.e. not put into service yet) stale batteries. Good luck finding a fresh, new OEM Li-Ion battery for your 2 year old or older phone (out of production for at least a year).
Been down this road before. Wasted lots of time and money replacing phone batteries after 2-3 years. From now on I'm going to stop coddling phone batteries, stop replacing them after 2-3 years, and just figure on a new phone every 2-3 years. It's the only way to get a fresh, new Li-Ion phone battery. (And get the phone right when it is released, like the MXPE this month. That way you are more sure the battery is fresh.)
I think everything in the wireless phone paradigm is increasingly heading that way anyway. Everything, and I mean everything, pushes the market to a 2 year product life cycle. Batteries last 2 years. Increasingly, batteries are not made to be replaceable. Carriers are changing networks so fast you need a new phone every 2 for that alone. New OS/SW overloads hardware older than 2 years. Displays may fade over a couple years. USB connectors wear out. Just relax and go with it. Marvel at the Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 (I am). You'll be happier with a new phone every 2 years.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yes, the Moto Turbo Charger can be used with any MicroUSB charging device. It will adjust charging as needed for the individual device. Moto made the Turbo Charger, to be a single charger for all MicroUSB devices.
If the battery is kept well charged, which Turbo Charging helps to accomplish. That's better to me, than more drain and slower chargers that leave the battery more drained overall. The batteries are supposed to last longer when kept fully charged more often.
crash613 said:
Sorry for the kind of off topic, but it's kind of related... is it okay to use other devices with the included fast charger? I just hate having 2 micro usb chargers plugged in, when I could use just one
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app
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"...since Quick Charge 2.0 is compatible and interoperable, a certified adapter can be used with a non-Quick Charge 2.0 device, though the fast charging benefits of Quick Charge 2.0 will not be available. "
https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/quick-charge/faq
By all appearances, Motorola's "TurboPower™ Charging" is nothing more than Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. (That's what Snapdragon 808 in the XT1575 uses.)
The third-party Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 chargers I bought are recognized as "Turbo" and function with the XT1575, just like the Motorola charger that came with the XT1575.
(There are a LOT of Qualcomm-certified QC 2.0 chargers for sale by third-party names. Qualcomm has been BUSY. )
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
billubakra said:
To slow charge a S7, do we have to turn off fast charging from the settings and then charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
Does this hold true for Motorola's phone also which have turbo charging option?
Also how to measure battery cycles? Any credible app for the same?
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Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
acejavelin said:
Moto doesn't have the option in settings, it uses industry standard Qualcomm Quick Charge standard rather than a OS hack like Samsung (no offense)... If it is connected to a QC 2.0 charger, it will negotiate the appropriate charge rate, if it is connected to a "standard" charger it will charge normally.
I don't think you can accurately measure battery/charge cycles... even if you could it would be extremely deceiving, what would be considered a cycle? Charging at 50%, 30%, 10%, and to what point 75%, 80%, 100%? Too much room for interpretation here that could be swayed either way depending on the person/app counting it's point of view.
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Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
billubakra said:
Thanks for replying dear. So, for S7 I have turned off fast charge, should I now charge via the charger that came with the phone(the so called fast charger) or should we use a charger from an old phone say SIII etc.?
For Moto G, the question is the same as above.
Of the little what I have understood from various threads here is to charge the battery when it is between 20-40% to 80-90% if you want to have a good battery life. I used to do the complete opposite charge, when the battery is at say 6-7% and charge it till it is maxed. I used to do the same for my laptop, any other tip for the battery?
And I have signed your petition Brother. I hope they listen to the users.
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Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
acejavelin said:
Does Fast Charge hurt the battery life, no, at least not directly... heat does. Using an older style charger will avoid Quick Charging but I think that foregoing that benefit for a few more days of battery life is hardly worth it. I frequently have 30-60 minutes to charge, not 3-5 hours, so quick charge is nice, if it takes few days off the longevity of the battery so be it. Those who think it cuts the battery life by 20, 30, even 50% are wrong, that simply isn't the case because of Fast Charge itself.
The Moto G isn't an issue here, it doesn't support Quick Charge until the 4th generation, but why give up the feature?
I don't think the "rules" of charging apply as much as people think they do... I charge mine overnight and whenever it needs it during the day, if it does. There is no need to do anything special.
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Thanks for the wonderful and detailed reply. I am going to try, not stick, to slow charging to see the difference in heating of the battery. My SIII's charger 's input is 150-300VAC, 50-60 hz 0.15AA, output- 5.0V-1.0A and S7's details are input 100-240V 50-60hz 0.5A, output- 9.0V= 1.67 A or 5.0V=2.0A. Can I use the S3's charger to charge S7 after turning of fast charge or is there a voltage difference or something? G4 is at home, don't know about its details. Also in my country the battery or the replacement parts are way too expensive.
I went back to the slow charger for overnight charging and battery life has been pretty darn good. When I use the fast charger it says it gets to 100 quickly but I feel it drops down way faster. Anyone else feel this way?
yeah, same happened with the note 4. I only use the fast charger when i need a quick charge. I use my old note galaxy tab s regular charger overnight.
Sent from my Moto X Pure Edition
Yeah. Fast chargers are great (the one included with MXPE is superb) but they're not meant for overnight-leave-your-phone-on-the-charger-for-6-or-7-hours-while-you-sleep type charging. Technically, the less you leave your phone on ANY charger after it reaches 100% the better it is for your battery.
EdCarden said:
Yeah. Fast chargers are great (the one included with MXPE is superb) but they're not meant for overnight-leave-your-phone-on-the-charger-for-6-or-7-hours-while-you-sleep type charging. Technically, the less you leave your phone on ANY charger after it reaches 100% the better it is for your battery.
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This used to be true, but I thought it's been debunked with current battery technology. Recent source anywhere?
No source... IMO. (And the fellow XDA members that replied to this thread)
stu5797 said:
No source... IMO. (And the fellow XDA members that replied to this thread)
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He was asking for the source saying it is better to disconnect your phone once it gets 100% battery...
It's been proven it has no ill effect over time, and after charging to full it will stop charging until it discharges enough to need a trickle charge, at which point it will trickle back up to 100% and repeat the process.
If you have ever had a battery pack shut itself off after charging your phone to 100%, it's because it finished charging and didn't discharge quickly enough before the battery pack shut off.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
I never use my rapid/turbo/quick charger (or whatever it's called). I only use the regular old overnight charger. I get great battery life. I know for a fact that heat is bad for all electronic components including batteries as can be read about in numerous articles on the subject. However, I also wonder about rapid charging to 100% why would the charge not last as long? Unless something that is reading the battery capacity is not accurate when the battery has been rapidly charged?
I don't have any scientific evidence. I just find I get better battery life using the old charger and noticeably worse battery using the rapid charger
I use the rapid charger and the battery life is the same with or without it.
EdCarden said:
Yeah. Fast chargers are great (the one included with MXPE is superb) but they're not meant for overnight-leave-your-phone-on-the-charger-for-6-or-7-hours-while-you-sleep type charging. Technically, the less you leave your phone on ANY charger after it reaches 100% the better it is for your battery.
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I agree with this, my phone was on 15% and I was about to fall asleep so I left it plugged in for about 9 hours, and it was almost dead with 2hrs SOT and 5 hours after being unplugged. But if I unplug it when it's at 80-90% it lasts me almost all day and into the night.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
razieltov said:
I use the rapid charger and the battery life is the same with or without it.
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Same here. Rapid charge is awesome, and my battery life is very good as a business user.
I agree that fast charging is great for a temporary quick charge but not good using it to get your phone to 100%