Database Users

Prolonged Battery Charging ~ Yes, I believe it is Safe

Prior to getting the Galaxy S, after I read what Samsung were saying in the manual of not to overcharge, I investigated the reasons and wrote in various topics on the battery and the differences between Li-Ion & Li-Pol battery types.
At that point with all the evidence found it made sense to believe that what Samsung were saying in not to overcharge was accurate.
Basically, at that time it was believed the phone used a Li-Pol, Li-Pol batteries are different in that they are 'wet cell' as opposed to Li-Ion which are 'dry cell' charged.
Li-Pol can be manufactured much thinner but can not be manufactured in different shapes.
This is to allow the wet cells whilst under charge which become hot to move around the battery freely. If a Li-Pol was manufactured in different shapes like Li-Ion it would create a 'hot-spot' in an area where the wet cell could not move fluidly around the remainder of the battery.
However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
Anyway, moving on to the present.......
After now getting the phone and doing a bit of testing I have found the overcharging issue NOT to be an issue.
When you commence a charge on the phone the icon changes to a charge state.
However, once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
So to all of us who have been worried about overcharging, my personal advise is to NOT worry and charge as and when you feel the need.
Hope this helps.
Beards

Thanks for clear up, I was always been scared while charging that it may blow up.

Nice find!

However, it has now come to light that this is not the case and that the batteries provided with the phone are indeed Li-Ion.
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When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.

I have just charged mine from bone empty to full. A notification came up stating that the battery was full and to disconnect the charger. Although the battery monitor app says it is not charging and the normal battery meter has gone solid.
I agree that it seems to stop the charging circuit. Although I thought we were getting LiPo not li ion for these as well it's definitely li ion though.

Morbo66 said:
When you say "it has come to light", what do you mean? Is it just your deduction from your battery tests, or did you see this info from Samsung?
From what I understood, the LI-Pol overcharging is an issue in theory, but in real life applications its not a problem as long as you use the charger that is designed with LiPol in mind, it will auto shutoff charging once it senses the battery is full.
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Take the battery out and turn it over. Now read the battery type and you will see it says Li-Ion.

if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it

hkfriends said:
if such, it will reduce the re-charge cycle....
i suggest, power off the phone and then keep charge overnight will be safe....
otherwise, if it is on and charges only full then disconnect it
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Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.

Beards said:
...once the battery has reached maximum charge capacity the battery icon automatically changes to a 'Non-Charge' state and then the phone simply runs off it's own battery. This is despite the phone is still connected to the charger.... It's just that the charger although still attached is no longer charging the battery.
As soon as the battery falls below a certain figure (I've had different figures ranging from 98% right down to 91% which is probably due to whatever the phone is doing at that particular time to wake the phone up from realizing "hey, you are still attached to a charger, now wake up and start charging again").
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To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.

Beards said:
Modern battery's don't have cycles where you loose power by continuously topping up the battery.
The practice I use is I charge whenever I get the chance, then after around 30 charges I run it right down and do a full charge.
As to powering off the phone to charge, this is not always convenient.
I need my phone on all the time in case I get an emergency call-out and I'm sure there are others who need their phones on overnight to use as a morning alarm.
Finally, I'm not sure if the practice you mention in powering off the phone and charging overnight would have the same effect in being able to re-charge when the battery level drops.
I think doing it in your method the charger would continuously hit the battery regardless as to whether or not it is fully charged ~ which in effect is what Samsung are saying in not to overcharge.
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AFAIK, the reason to fully deplete the battery is to properly calibrate the % remaining in your battery. Running your battery down to empty causes more stress to the phone than running it down 50%. I happened to get a free battery with my device, but I would've bought a spare if I didn't get a free one, so I can easily go 3-5 days depending on usage, during this time I have my house and work to do charges. However, let's say I were to be expecting to have less frequent charges, such as taking a vacation, prior to that I would be fully depleting the battery to 0% to calibrate because then the battery level is more important to me. The trade off of long-term life vs short term accuracy is a very easy decision for me to make due to my situation.
In older batteries you had to "use the cells or lose them" situation where it was better, to at least occasionally, completely run down the device rather than doing partial cycles. These days, charging @ 50% 2 times is equivalent to 1 cycle of 100% with less long-term "stress" to the battery.
borchgrevink said:
To me it seems like the phone will NOT use the battery as long as it is plugged in. On my phone the battery meter never drops under 100 % when connected.
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Same for me.

The reason it tells you to unplug the charger when done charging has nothing to do with battery. It is to save power. Battery chargers still draw some power just because they are plugged in. And in these green times it is ofcourse very popular to have warnings everywhere so you can claim to a green company. And every lithium ion and polymer battery contains electronics designed to protect them from abuse. Including over charging. So that will never be a problem on any phone unless you have a defective battery.

Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.

Joans said:
Is there a way to disable the message telling you to unplug the charger? I charge my phone overnight and use it as a clock, but when I wake up in the morning and try to see the time there's this huge popup in the middle of the screen telling me my battery has charged.
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I think I read that the newest, or maybe just a random middle since something has superseded it, firmware fixed this.

interesting topic thx Beards for sharing your insights.

Overcharging - read the manual
Guys, if you will read the manual that came with your SGS, it says there that "DO NOT OVERCHARGE YOUR BATTERY FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS". It obviously means that the battery can be overcharged for more than a day as long as it is not more than 2 weeks ( I doubt if someone will be able to do that). So that confirms also that we can recharge anytime and not necessarily have it done to zero before charging. Hope this helps also

i've pretty much quit worrying about the overcharge after the first month of usage
i was following the auto pop up message, just because i wanted to conserve battery
but having 3 spare battery made me though it's futile
and it was extreme annoying to wakeup in the middle of the night, just to unplug it
it was awesome the day i found that patch on the forum to disable the annoying pop up alert that your battery is full.
now i can sleep the whole night without the alert coming online, and rest at ease knowing if the phone actually alerts me, it'll be a phone call or something important, not some annoying "unplug me plz!" message

Cradle use and battery health

At the office I leave my phone in a cradle. When I get calls I remove the phone to answer and then return it to the cradle when done. My battery goes from 100% down to somewhere in the 90's then charges back to 100% in the cradle. Does this repeated process harm the battery in any way? I've read that these batteries don't suffer from the memory effect, but I'm still not sure if this counts as a charging cycle.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.

Really? I've read on this forum that there is no need to do that with the new Lithium Ion batteries. I've even read that this could have a negative effect and you should try not to let the battery drain completly.
I don't understand why there isn't a proper battery care section in the manual. Its as if its some kind of voodoo science.

Perhaps not Once a week. But Once a "while"
The reason is that, Phone software uses approximation to calculate the charge left in the Battery. So over time, battery ages and software may not be calibrated to match with the battery's storage capacity. So draining the battery entirely and charging them fully gives the phone's software to assess the battery's health and recalibrate.

It's a lithium battery mate. The only way you can really damage it is by a complete discharge. So long as you don't switch the phone back on once it switches itself off due to low battery you needn't worry about anything else.

Also in theory the lithium batteries have a lifespan of say about a 1000 charges for example and everytime you charge it has one charging less left. This ofcourse isn't exactly how it is in practice but charging the battery alot wears it down. It isn't good either to keep it in the charger for a longer time after it's reached a 100%.

Hi,
this is only partly correct:
Suppose the battery can make 1000 (which I don't believe) charge cycles,
it means that you can charge 1000 times from empty to full.
If you just charge 1000 times from 50% empty to full it counts for 500 cycles!
So,
don't worry, let it stay in the cradle if you like
There are 500 opinions about that but believe, as I wrote is correct.
Theo

Yes, what I said wasn't exact science and I used 1000 cycles as an example, but from what I've read it is better to let the battery drain to less than 50% and then charge it full rather than charge 5% at a time. My previous post was meant to illustrate this.
Sent from my Leedroid powered pocketsized supercomputer using XDA App

geenome said:
You should always let the battery run down completely some times maybe once a week.
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That's a load of crap, no offense... Lithium batteries have no memory effect and have absolutely no need to be completely discharged, that's a ancient thing from the time of nickel-metal hybrid batteries. The only actual reason for full charge cycles is to calibrate the device for that exact battery.
Keeping a lithium-ion battery in a charger most of the time will wear the battery down faster than getting it drain more and then charging it. Keeping the battery almost fully loaded/in a constant loading state wears the battery capacity by approximately 20% a year (can't recall the source/study just now)(EDIT: and my personal experience is that the battery capacity will wear that much anyway, no matter how you use it). The life-cycle of phones these days are roughly two years nowadays so IMO you can keep it in a cradle with no worries, if you wish. And lets face it, a new battery after a year of usage won't be that big an investment after all.

To add to the above post, running down a lithium battery completely does more damage than benefit. This is almost impossible though with normal use as the phone shuts down long before the battery is completely empty

[Q] first charge?

do i drain the battery before first charge? is it really necessary to do overnight first charge or 3-4 hour full charge will do? need to take extra care since it is non removable.

I know that's really un-educated but I'm not sure about those things as well ... is it good to drain it first and then recharge it, or recharge it at the beginning .. and is it bad when you take it off the charger in the middle of the process?
I know it depends on battery type. And actually what would make sense is just following the manual. Why shouldn't the manufacturer know?
Anyway, anyone with some knowledge on that, please help!

Nearly all cell phones use Lithium-based batteries, which should not be drained before charging. The "drain before charge" thing only applies to nickel cadmium batteries.
You should charge your phone battery as often as possible. It's better for the battery to go from 100% to 80% five times than to go from 100% to 0% once.

I have read several articles that state it is BAD to completely drain a lithium polymer battery so I plan to just keep it charged as usual.

Bronk93 said:
I have read several articles that state it is BAD to completely drain a lithium polymer battery so I plan to just keep it charged as usual.
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I've heard the same info too where it'll damage the battery by draining it completely. Although, I heard that power management on devices sometimes need to be calibrated by taking the lithium battery to near 0%...it's that way on my macbook pro...not sure about phones.

[Q] Keeping the Nexus 10 plugged-in

I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
I use my Nexus 10 a lot at house. So, Is it better to keep it plugged-in all that time?

roshanpius said:
I have read conflicting articles on increasing the battery life of Lithium-ion batteries (the ones used in Nexus 10). Most of the Lithium ion batteries have a lifespan of 300-400 charge/discharge cycles. From my understanding, this means that it is bad to fully discharge the batteries and then recharge them as it reduces from the above mentioned lifespan and it is better to top-off the battery often as possible.
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This is correct.
In fact there was an article that I read on Cnet specifically for the iPad (I'm not allowed to post outside links for some reason, google: "ipad keep plugged in" and the first article in the search result) , where they recommend to keep the iPad plugged-in whenever possible to increase the battery life.
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The life span of LiIon/LiPoly batteries is also reduced when the battery is at or near 100% for a prolonged time. Don't think too much about it, just use the N10 and recharge it often. I usually try to plug it back in around the 70% mark.
It's also quite easy to open up the tablet, you only need a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool and then you can change the battery yourself, if it ever should become necessary (unlikely, unless you plan to use it for ~5 years).
> http://www.powerbookmedic.com/wordpress/2012/11/16/google-nexus-10-take-apart-first-look

i don't care about it... i leave it plugged whenever i can
chances are, those who take "good care" of their battery may end up with 10% more life in 2 years.... and frankly, i couldn't care less about that
not worth the hassle of worrying about batteries anymore

Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.

EniGmA1987 said:
Best practice actually is to drain to 40% and charge up to 80%. Dropping to 90% and charging back up to 100% a bunch is still bad for your battery, as is leaving it plugged in over night when it reached 100% long before you wake up.
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It stops charging upon reaching 100%.

Its hard to follow those instructions when your out 24 hours a day, or maybe you just want to use your tablet
Don't worry about doing extra stuff.. like the user said I could careless..
Just don't let your device die, charge it once it hit like 15%..
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2

YoungAceAtlanta said:
Saying charge your device once it at 70% is like only driving your car for 5miles and putting it back in the garage and walk the rest of the way..
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I didn't say you have to do that. If it's possible I recharge early, if not I just use it anyway.
Doesn't really matter too much since the battery can be exchanged rather easily if it ever comes to that.

BoneXDA said:
It stops charging upon reaching 100%.
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Yes, and then it drains a bit and goes back to charging, over and over the rest of the night.

I've read that Li-ion batteries don't like "deep cycles", that is, fully dischanging then fully charging, because this shortens the battery's life. Also that it's not good to have it at 100% for a prolonged time. So it would be best to always have the device partially charged, plugging it if below 50% and unplugging at 90%. When the battery reaches 90% some phones even notify you that "the battery is full, and you can disconnect from charger"
Source: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

A (new) way to increase battery life on the S7/Edge

Hello,
I am doing an experiment since few days ago. I noticed that if you disable the Fast Charging, and (most importantly) use a proper, thick 2A USB cable (I use a Kindle Fire original cable) then the battery lasts around 15-20% longer.
How to recognize that you got a proper USB charging cable ? With fast charging disabled and the battery empty, the phone should tell you that there are around 2 hours until full (instead of the usual 7 hours or so with fast charging disabled). That's when you know that you are using the proper cable. I bought a original Kindle Fire cable from Amazon and that is very solid, much thicker than the standard cable. See attached screenshot. With the standard cable this seems to be a hit and miss, you sometimes get the 2 hours message and sometimes the 7 hours message.
I repeated the experiment 3 times and each time I got significantly better battery life than before.
You may want to try it to see if it works for you.
PS: Attached is my latest battery life screenshot (APC8 firmware), which is the third charge since the experiment. 2 days 6 hours of stand-by with 5h SOT on a mix of 80% Wi-Fi, 20% 4G with nothing disabled (even Bluetooth is permanently connected to the LG smartwatch). Almost no videos played, only web page browsing which is quite demanding on battery.

Look if new software update is possible.

Yeah, I noticed that my battery life was worse when I used a ****ty 1 Ah Sony charger when I displaced the original Samsung charger. It took about 3 hours to charge it up to 100%, but then I noticed that the battery life would be worse than before. I found the original charger again, and battery life is back to being good again. I never use fast charging, unless it's in the middle of the day and I'm heading out or something.
None of the things mentioned above should (technically) have any impact on battery life once unplugged? I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.

Nothing new, I've always noticed that if I charge the phone with the original charger and fast charging disabled it will last much longer.

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?

None of this solutions should impact battery life Oo. Energy is energy, no matter where it comes from?!
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
Do you have the newest android version installed?
By the way, I only charge with original charger and cable, fast charge disabled (battery life is longer?!)

Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it.
I always had far better battery life than most people complain about.
BTW, I also tried charging battery keeping phone switched on at 10-15% charge remaining, battery definitely performed weaker for my use.
So that confirmed my theory based on my usage over last 7 years..

thegame2388 said:
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Kindle-Micro-USB-Cable-Tablets/dp/B006GWO5NE
This cable? Which AC adapter do you use?
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Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
J.Biden said:
I mean, stored electricity is stored electricity, so if someone QUALIFIED could give an explanation here, it would be cool.
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BigDoun2011 said:
Would be nice, if someone qualified could tell us more..
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I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."

Cst79 said:
Yes, this is the exact cable I am using. A bit expensive, but for me it was the only cable that consistently worked at 2A over time.
I wonder if Qnovo is qualified enough ? Their technology is employed in many charging solutions. Here is what they say:
"Add fast charging - it gets noticeably worse. It turns out that the simple way batteries are charged today causes most of the damage that leads to shorter daily battery life and reduced lifespan."
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So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.

thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.

Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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Ah okay. I went ahead and bought one!

It ' also the logical thing. With fast charging , the battery holds less charge than the "normal . " He just spoke in various forums of this.
Anyway , great idea.

How to maintain max battery life span (reliable source):
Perform shallow discharges. Instead of discharging to 0% all the time, lithium-ion batteries do best when you discharge them for a little bit, then charge them for a little bit. The table below, from Battery University, shows that discharges to 50% are better for your battery's long-term life than, say, small discharges to 90% or large discharges to 0% (since the 50% discharges provide the best number of cycles-to-usage ratio).
·Don't leave it fully charged. Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. In fact, they'd prefer not to be—so the 40%-80% rule you heard is a good guideline. When possible, keep it in that range to prolong its life as long as you can. And, if you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health. If you need to charge it overnight, use something like the Belkin Conserve Socket to stop it from charging after it's full.
·Fully discharge it once a month. This may seem contradictory, but hear us out. While lithium-ion batteries shouldn't be discharged regularly, most modern batteries are what's known as "smart batteries", which means that they can tell you how long you have until your battery dies (e.g. "2 hours, 15 minutes remaining"). This feature can get miscalibrated after a lot of shallow discharges. So, manufacturers recommend fully discharging your battery once a month to make sure this stays accurate.

Cst79 said:
In no way I am saying this. I am just saying that you need a cable that reliably supports 2A charging, so the charger shows 2 hours to full instead of 7 hours to full, even with fast charging off.
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But you stated that it increases battery life.

thegame2388 said:
So you're saying that Kindle Fire cable extends battery life? Isn't 100% battery life from one cable the same as 100% battery life from another cable? Energy is energy.
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What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.

Outbreak444 said:
What he's saying is that a slower charge equals a longer lasting battery between charges.
But maybe that doesn't apply to Li-ion batteries, according to this link here.
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You can try it for yourself (if you have an S7/Edge) and report the results here. I posted my results, I'm not an expert, I just tried this. I also tried the 7-hour slow charge (with a different charger) and it didn't work as well as the 2-hour charge. The 2 hour charge seems to work best.

Yeah, If you use fast charging the battery dies a little bit quicker. I recommend fast charging if you are in hurry.

I only use fast charge when I'm in hurry.. Nice feature! I try to charge my phone between 25-80%...

p2kin said:
Battery life depends on how well you follow charging & discharging cycle. I usually fully discharge my battery (so that phone will shut down by itself after dropping below 1% charging), then charge it fully keeping it switched off & then use it..
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Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.

meyerweb said:
Worst thing you can do for the lifespan of an Li battery.
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I disagree, even though it switches off itself, it still has charge, don't go by it says 1%.. so it's not fully discharged... besides my method served a good battery life to me over the years with earlier phone models