Related
Forgive me for not really being able to search deeply into this matter, I've seen threads detailing updating with the JasJar ROM or an amalgamation of the the MDA/O2 ROM.
1) I have 43.72mb total storage and 47.93mb Program storage. This results in 91.65mb total storage??? Right, at 128megs where has 40mbs gone? I have pretty much the exact same set up on the MDA3 yet the two figures more or less add up to 128mb. Can someone confirm these figures with me?
2) Is there a new ROM coming out and soon? I'm not one to complain if results are going to happen, but the memory issue is a biggy to me as there is one more program I want to install on the thing and I doubt there will be enough free memory.
3) Software, I'm sure there was a better suite of software on the MDA3 when that came out. Okay time consuming it may be but sometimes I do like to run Messenger when I'm on the train - where has it gone? And if Microsoft think I'm going to pay £10.99 more for that feature they can go swivel. I followed a thread that said it's included in Windows - it's not on the MDA Pro.
I really love the design of the thing but the software just seems to be a joke. Where do I start? I have posted the MDA3 for sale on Ebay and I want to honour that sale, but I also want a device that replaces my MDA3 100%.
This includes getting TomTom 5 to work with my BT GPS receiver!!!
1. Sorry not sure about the memory
2. I havent heard of a new T-mobile ROM being available and they never seemed to work on any updates for the MDAiii
3. The software suite was better - I miss my messenger too and like you I am reluctant to pay microsoft a tenner! The backup software isnt avialbel either which is an arse.
4. Good luck with TT5 I had to upgrade my co-pilot to get it to work on new os.
If at all possible could anyone with the MDAPro and the carrier ROM please do a memory check on theirs to compare with mine?
If you're not sure how to do it - Start/Settings/System/Memory, I just need the total figures for Storage and Program
I have the same memory CONFIG as you have stated!
In WM5 you have separate ROM & RAM configuration unlike WM2k3...
So here's how ur memory is split up -
1. RAM 64MB
Out of 64 megs of RAM, you loose roughly 17MB on internal allocation. For the device to run perfectly it has various fixed RAM permanently allocated (DMA buffers (for ur cameras etc.), kernel level memory allocation, GSM memory, video memory, mem swap space, cache etc.). This total memory fixed can vary from device to device, and each company can tweak it accordingly. Eventually, the OS has roughly 47MB for use. Now again, when WM5 powers up, it again consumes around 17megs of RAM, giving you 30-32 megs of ram to use for your programs or apps!
2. ROM 128MB (permanent storage)
This is divided into the following -
a. OS install: This is where WM5 related files etc. gets stored. This is a total of 64Megs
b. Extended ROM: This is used by maufacturers to store their customizations etc. Another 20megs allocated for this
c. User storage: This is the space available for you to install programs, and for windows to bloat Thats 43megs that you find!
Hope this clears out
Cheers,
San
Thanks for you response having had an XDA for some time and then the MDA I was just quite suprised to see a Memory low warning message so quickly as I never saw one on the MDA3. I wanted to confirm that I wasn't having memory issues.
Hello everyone, so I got the T-mobile wing wich is the same as the Herald a couple of days ago, and the first thing I checked when I turned it on was the program memory and it was very disappointing at around 17MB then it went down from there I never saw the 17 again, I have a few apps installed and now my memory is around 9MB after soft reset. I am not liking this about this device especially after been spoiled with the Core 2.0n ROm on my MDA (wizard) I had more apps installed and still had over 25 MB of program memory left, as far as I know the only way to make this better is to flash it with a cooked rom, but since that is too risky at this point with not having a ship rom to go to if phone gets briked I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts or solutions for this issue.
by the way I think other then the size of the wing I like the wizard better in many ways. share your thoughts.
Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory
BRSG said:
Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.
The problem is the pagepool.
All cooked rom for wizard have 4 or 8MB pagepool because that´s enough. I guess on wing it is the normal 12MB - too much.
We have to cook smaler ones and we will get back the big RAM like 30MB.
Let´s wait for official update and start cooking without the possibility of bricking.
lol
FZZF said:
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...
low memory on wing
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.
BRSG said:
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have the HTC p4350 so I am sure it's runing on different rom, I think the problem is with the T-Mobile USA Rom, it has too much crap on it I even did a soft reset right before customization to prevent the t-MO stuff to install and that gave me an extra 7MB of storage but no better on the program memory and the timobile stuff still installed. I did turn off all plug ins I even shut down all unnecessary processes with memmaid and the best I got was 13MB so I am pretty sure it's the rom and I thnk Papa is right it may have to do with the page pool and or a combination of both page pool and all the T-Mobile garbage in the rom.
cyberjr said:
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it is sad when a cooked rom is a million times better then a ship rom made by the biggest software company in the world as Papa said I am waiting for an updated rom to be available to go back to in case something goes wrong while flashing a cooked rom, and it is only a matter of time before we can flash custom roms question is how long, I dont know how long I can handle the frustration of using this thing I installed IGO GPS yesterday and it would not run because of lack of memory so I think I am going back to the wizard until I can flash this dumb thing and by the way I don't think the T-mobile rep will come up with a solution but if he does please share it with us.
A lot of tweaking needed
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.
Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.
dll
kevinwatson5 said:
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?
interesting, I tried runing IGO nav and it reported an error saying it needed 6MB of memory to run I had to soft reset to get it to work, last night I installed SKTools and did some more tweeking with it and gained about 2MB of memory but not much I am wondering if the rom has some memory leaks somewhere because I can't even fin what apps are using so much memory at start up I got rid of most of them the only one I cant get rid of it the myfavs.
ericizzy1 said:
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.
hi
kevinwatson5 said:
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u could only tell me which dll's(that came installed on the wing) u moved, it will be great.
dll's
I moved everyone that Memmaid would allow me to move, the ones that were in use could not be moved and that was only a couple.
Here's what I did and I have like 15mb to spare
I did a hard reset on my Wing - then, when T-mo's customizations started/tried to run, I did a soft reset (thus preventing their installation).
From this point I installed any and everything that i wished to have on my phone
(in my case this consisted of: total Commander; Sleuth's WM6VOIP; HTC Home Plug Today Plugin; RvBCrS HTC Startup animation; A_C Slide2Unlock; Chi-Tai Dang batteryStatus TD-Plugin; T-Mobile Soft Key Applet; PPCSoft psShutXP; HTC Audio Manager; The Equinoxe Wizard Retouched Dialer2; and By Boto XDA-Developers HTC Touch Comm Manager)
As you can see, I installed a lot of stuff and still I have sufficient room left on my device. will say that inevitably you may want to reset your device about once a day or so - because it appears to slow down and lose memory over time, but all in all it's no worse than my MDA ever was, plus I still have my MDA if I missed it that much (Which I don't).
xander803 said:
Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it possible to use an empty extended rom to stop some of those problems???
Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.
dangtong said:
Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you running in background??????
I have 26MB free while SPB mobile shell, today agenda and batterystatus are running - and 22MB when activesync is connected!
BUT i have the terra. But even without pagepoolchanging i had 20MB free. After all programs are installed.
So what are you running?????
got 8 free and only Mobile shell, Phone Suit and Weather running
**** this device
Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,
hheh 15-20 mb free ram?
man, change ROM...
btw, i never seen program, that cant be launched with 4 mb pp..
more = waste.
so a 4mb pp is best for freeing up ram for apps like calligrapher and today plugins... Does anyone know first hand whether a rom with only 4mb pp will be unbearably slow for things like loading /windows directory in file explorer?
Thanks,
I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.
thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.
neptune said:
I just switched to a 4MB PP on my Herald from a 12MB one. So far I am very happy. The amount of time is took to access the Windows folder was cut by more than 5sec. It only takes 3seconds max to load it up now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?
nothin said:
thanks for http://www.roguegovernment.com/, and your avatar, God bless Canada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Canada aint such a saint either but I'll take it over the US anyday. Did you know that some of the worst scientific tests from Project MKUltra were carried out in Canada under order from the American Military.These two governments go hand in hand. All the unwilling Canadian participants were drugged with LSD, run through ElectroSchock, and a whole load of sad experiments. I could go on all day about Government corruption, but when it comes down to it I'm all against it; and the only way to win a "war" against the government is by spreading the word of its wrong doings. SO whoever reads this thread pass this website along.
WWW.roguegovernment.com
ps: I know this ain't about PPC's but spread the word.
pps: if you havent already watch documentary Loose Change, then I'm sure that this website will be on your bookmark list.
mr_yellow said:
Wait, What??
Reducing the pagepool will *increase* performance? not decrease it?
Isn't there a trade off at some point? I thought reducing the pp will decrease performance but increase program ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on your definition of peformance. Reducing page pool will speed up a few things on your device, it may also slow down a few things. However if you benchmark your device on sktools or similar then you will notice that greater page pool gives marginly better results.
Given that it is very simple to alter page pool I suggest that those wondering about the effects of page pool trial different page pool values and then note the subtle differences until they find a compromise.
mr_yellow said:
Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out what affect page pool sizes have on program memory. I understand that the larger the pagepool, the smaller the program ram. I understand, the larger the page pool, the "faster" the ROM operates since the pagepool is used as a pseudo-ram/cache for the OS.
However, Does anything else besides the Windows OS use the page pool memory? Can third party applications use the page pool?
Also, Because I have the HTC prophet which is known to be very limited in available RAM, I'm curious why sometimes I can't load third party input methods like calligrapher or tengo even when I have 15-20 megs of available program ram. Does the pagepool have some affect on this? This also seems linked to the today plugins since if I disable the today plugins, i can sometimes load calligrapher. Is the available ram split up between SIP (soft input panel) and today plugins vs. regular third party applications?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wm5 had problems with multiple SIPs which has been sorted out in WM6,
if you are still on wm5 upgrade to wm6...if you have wm6 and still have this problem then try searching for PQIIz and if possible change your rom
Hi All,
Thanks for all the new replies. It really helps!
Concerning wm5 vs wm6: I am running a wm6 rom, in fact it's a rom built on the latest available build of wm6 so as far as I know, it's "up to date". But even with running wm6, I still have problems loading third party SIPs. Right after a reset, it's fine. But after a few hours or days of uptime, they'll fail to load. Even things like HTC phone pad (which i had to install seperately) won't load up.
Also, I can't find anything about PQIIz. As far as I can tell from the small references here and there, it's a utility that manages freeing memory and closing apps. What's the full name of this app?
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/
mr_yellow said:
Hi All,
Going back to the pagepool discussion: I wish I could experiement with the pagepool size but I'm no rom cook.. =( One day I'll get there.
Sigh.. back to flashing i guess. =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do not need to cook to change.. just hexedit nbf..
btw, freeing mem app - oxios memory module hibernate.
About Canada and USA - Canada never destroyed other country, you know..(end of OT).
Someone (somewhere in one of these forums) mentioned that Microsoft's recommended "optimal" pagepool size was 4.5MB. I just assumed there had to be something wrong with that since my Dell Axim's OEM roms were set to 12MB pagepools. But perhaps there is some basis for a 4.5MB pagepool. I guess I will try it one of these days and see--unless someone else has already tried it on an Axim (X50v) and can give me an idea of performance results.
i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram
Rudegar said:
i would guess that ms dont have an optimal general pagepool
as it would depend on the transfer speed of the storage
compared to the speed of the ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the best thing still is just to try several different pagepool sizes and pick the one that seems to have the most even balance of speed between various tasks/programs?
Does the process for changing the page pool size depend on the device? I found these instructions for changing pagepool for wizard roms:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=ChangingPagePoolofWizardWM6Roms
Are there any other factors I need to take into account before manually modifying a custom rom I did not build?
quick bump...
I'm still confused about the affects of pagepool and speed of OS and amount of program ram...
So my rom has 8mb pp. loading /windows takes only 4 seconds. I also get problems loading calligrapher, phonepad, and today plugins. I've had other roms with i think 12mb pp. loadinig /windows takes like 8-10 seconds with that and I don't recall any problems with loading 3rd party input method. I don't think i've ever tried a 4mb pp rom.
So from what I've experienced.
12mb pp:
slower OS (loading /windows is slow)
can load more input methods and today plugins
less program ram???
8mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is fast)
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins
more program ram?
4mb pp:
faster OS (loading /windows is ???)???
can NOT load more input methods and today plugins???
most program ram???
I have set the pagepool on my Diamond to 0Mb - very fast for all tasks. I used the tool in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=323269
But I am confused still. In the above linked thread they talk of 0mb being the fastest, but you guys are talking about more than 0mb. A very steep learning curve for me
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
that should help you
The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
Taken from here.
i seen, a couple of roms that had a pagepool editor in the zip file
Requests/suggestions please for WM 6.1 cookers considering their next release:
- 64 MB Program Memory
- Absolute bare skeleton WM 6.1
- essential candidates for removal:
> customer feedback
> windows live
> any windows help & support related bloatware
> error reporting
> search
> windows media player
> any animated items, icons, etc..
> junk items under \windows; unnecessary gif,jpg,bmp,png
etc, text files
- single boot screen, no splash, animations etc..
minimize WM 6.1 boot time
- removal of other misc bloatware, vaporware that are not
core to the function, speed and stability of WM 6.1
======================================================
To the site Administrators:
-------------------------
- can we initiate a donation bucket in which people may contribute
and pool donations?
- 1 month period (or other) in which donations can be collected and
cookers may submit their best releases
- the people (users) vote during the period on what they find to be
the most efficient, stable, fast, clean and best performing rom.
- at the end of the period the donation pool is distributed to the top 3
most voted cookers, e.g. 60%/25%/15% respectively.
======================================================
Suggestions, ideas, recommendations, criticism etc certainly
welcome.
Thanks to all
--kara
64M program memory mean No WM.
why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,
ks1781 said:
why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are really someone )
Trinity have only 64MB build in , how come it have 64MB program memory ? DId you have brain ?
--yes,
if the device has 64 MB SDRAM, why is it that most cooked roms
generally present approx. 50 MB of that?
is this a limitation or is missing 14 MB used for a special purpose?
Thanks for any advice.
?? because it takes up space to install the operating system.. even a 'bare bones' operating system is still an operating system..
did you ever wonder why there's space missing from your hard drive after you install windows xp?
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
Memory ROM: 128 MB
RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
What is the ROM 128 MB designated for?
Thanks for your patience with me.
--kara
if i understand him correctly, he is referring to the program memory i.e. RAM not ROM. the 128MB ROM is meant for installation of OS (WM) where the 64MB RAM is the execution power. we normally get ~20MB-25MB RAM free out of 64MB total. i believed the rest (64MB - 25MB) was used for other services once WM started.
yes, that is what i'm trying to understand..
in this p3600 specification from HTC:
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
it lists>
128 MB ROM
64 MB RAM
=================================================
for the 128 MB ROM
I assume the 128 MB ROM contains the OS installation, with
some component of this ROM hidden/reserved.
E.g. some cooked roms released have 'Big Storage'
~70 MB available to the user for NV storage
the remaining 58 MB comprises OS installation and a reserved
area.
=================================================
for the 64 MB RAM
This is the volatile memory available for the OS to boot & run, and
for program execution.
However, on most cooked roms I have used, under
Settings -> System -> Memory
'Program Total' is reported as ~50 MB.
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??
as dum as it sounds i've wondered about that too
even formatting issues aside (like how hard drive capacity is always lower than reported), 14MB seems like a lot to 'go missing'.
why doesnt WM even report it? because its being used by the system for services? so then why does it ALSO report itself using around 20MB of what's left?
that way, it's like 14 MB used (hidden) + approx. 20MB reported (shown) = approx. 34MB total? :/ hmm
ks1781 said:
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - You have a PC with 1GB of RAM say. Once say windows xp has booted up - your AV started etc. you probably have 684MB say of RAM left, so Where did the other 340MB of RAM go to?
Think about it.
wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about
Just think that Windows XP takes 250/300 mb of ram space....
PS: Please edit your title... Someone could understand that you really have a 64mb free ram rom......
joncgde2 said:
wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it is for the Radio Rom etc...or maybe Microsoft are stealing Ram and stockpiling it....lol
This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.
tetsuo55 said:
This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it really matter where it goes? Obviously if that memory hasn't been exploited yet by the excellent cookers etc in here....then it can't be of any benefit.
I concur with tetsuo55.
The reasoning proposed by Andych and others still does not quite
correlate.
i.e. 64 = 14 (OS) + ~20 (progs) + ~30 free
the ~20 is supposedly attributed to basic progs,
e.g. phone, filesys, mail etc..
A listing of such process summates to approx. 8 MB total.
That still leaves 12 MB of unaccounted for basic function
and userland process consumption.
Regarding the ATI video chip, general investigation and
settings check of tcpmp would suggest at best it is a
4 MB chip (whether dedicated or shared)
I cant see the 'remaining ~14 MB' that I'm searching for
being used for paging. Paging is part of overall virtual memory,
and involves page outs/ins to a location on some type
of physical media. Additionally, with the usual ~ 30 MB
ram free, in the context of these devices, a swap requirement
is unlikely given the 'free' memory available.
Although 14 MB may seem peanuts compared to standard desktop
ram configurations today - with a p3600 + WM, recovering the
14 MB (if possible) would provide a much welcomed bonus to
the trinity.
--kara
ahh now we're onto something good work ks1781...
i fully agree with the need to just find out the answer to this... most likely it's something that will be perfectly explainable and make sense and we won't be able to do anything once we find out
but it sure would be nice to know
OK I have the 'answer' - straight from a Windows Mobile blog - I'll post it here cos it's all straight to the point and interesting (somewhat) Link is HERE
The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
The Radio Stack
Devices with a Cellular Radio have a complicated bunch of code to make their radios talk to cell towers. On some devices, the radio is a self-contained module with its own RAM and ROM. On others, the radio code is stored in the normal system flash. If so, it either needs to XIP, or it needs to be run in RAM. If it's run in RAM, that RAM is taken away from the system.
A typical radio stack takes 4M.
DMA Buffers
Some hardware can write directly into RAM without using the CPU to do it. This is called "Direct Memory Access" or DMA. DMA is very efficient and lets you get a lot more data transferred in the same amount of time, usually for less power. But it's best to set aside your DMA buffers before the system boots. This guarantees that they're there when you need them. PocketPCs have been doing this for a decade. But, back in the old days, the main use for DMA was audio capture. Audio data is small, so the DMA buffers are also small. Video, on the other hand, is big. More data requires bigger DMA buffers.
An OEM will tune the size of the pre-allocated DMA buffers based on what the device is intended to do. If the main goal is still photos, you can use a much smaller buffer. If the goal is recording video, it needs a much larger buffer. If the goal is video conferencing, it needs a bigger buffer still.
DMA buffers range in size between 300K and 6M. For a video capture device, it's likely to use around 4M.
XIPKernel
There are portions of the deepest parts of the OS that have to XIP. If you're on NOR, that code just XIPs like everything else. Not so on NAND. For a NAND system to boot, it needs to load this code into RAM first and then run it from there. When the system is running, it can't really tell if it's running from RAM or ROM, so it assumes it's running from ROM and doesn't count this space.
The XIPKernel region tends to be between 1.5 and 2M.
The Frame Buffer
There is a chunk of RAM set aside to hold everything that's on the screen. (If you want to know more about it, read this.) On most devices, every dot on the screen needs two bytes. A typical Pocket PC has 240x320 dots. That would be 300K. If you have a 640x480 screen, it's 600K. Sometimes, for performance reasons, devices will have two frame buffers. So this could take up to 1.2M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks joncgde2 - good find which provides a sufficient explanation as to the 'hidden' 14 MB.
There is still another question.
WM reports ~24 MB in use (per earlier screen captures) - where 'in use'
is attributed to running applications.
Checking a process listing via task manager shows the total
apparent RAM in use by these 'running applications' to be ~8 MB.
Can anyone provide an explanation to account for the
remaining ~16 MB??
Here it is the thread you all been waiting for, these simple tools and freely avaliable software will turbo charge your X1 into the stratosphere, safely, consistantly and error free, upto 8 X faster !!!
To check these wild claims use SKTools 5 supplied here, within there is a benchmark program to test key paramenters like Video speed and Memory Card speeds, run benchmark a few times to get a consistant reading.
View attachment SKTools5.CAB
To find the Bench mark Program: Click Catagory at the bottom, then Information, then you will find the benchmark program.
1) Turbo charge your micro SD card.
View attachment 137353
This simple program written by XDA developers will increase the read speed of your micro SD card by a facter of 8 !
Benchmark before program: Read Speed: 2,000 approx
Benchmark after program: Read Speed: 16,000 approx
2) Turbo charge your graphics
Within SkTools5 there is a program called Optimize, it is under the first catagory : Standard. It will automatically pick 3 settings that can be adjusted, tick Font Cache Size and TCP window size. Then click the Action button at the bottom, make sure Performance is ticked and then click Optimize. The program will then do a soft reset.
Using Benchmark: Draw bitmaps: before Optimize: around 180, pathetic ! a 5 year old can draw faster than that.
Using benchmark: Draw bitmaps: after Optimize : around 780 - wow ! i-robot speed ha ha
Thats 4 X graphics - its smokin !
3) General performace tweaks
View attachment Schaps_AdvancedConfig_v2.0.2.0.CAB
Using Advanced Configuration settings, under performances check these settings.
File System Cache: Enabled
File System cache size: 8mb
File system filter cache: 16384 sectors
Glyph cache: 32 kb
The effect of all these tweaks and enhancements means I can play 800 x 480 video perfectly just like TV, and Touch 3D is silky smooth and fast.
These are not idle claims, my X1 has vastly improved performance all round, I am finally happy with my X1, it rocks, bring on that iphone and our 'cuz' the Touch HD.
With this site.
And a bit of insight.
Through our will.
And XDA Developer skill.
The X1 is...the king of the hill
View attachment 137362
thanks a lot. Will try out later
Don't see much of a difference but then again i had most of these tweaks already in with the exception of the sd card read/write speed increase.
I did these tweaks and like Bxsteez only the SD card read speed increased.. from around 2000kb to 15-16k kb... However the bitmat draw speed was already 781 from the start.. perhaps there are ways to evern further increase it?
And what more can we do?
Thank you so much!
Increasing the filesystem cache improved my file navigation. The Windows folder used to take a long time to display, now it's faster.
Can't see much improvement on the display though. BTW, any trade offs in terms of battery life with the tweaks?
Thanks for the tnyynt SD TuneUP.cab and it indeed make the Micro SD Card reading faster.
However, the Advanced Config program is not so good compared to another version I have as I cannot find many section like the calendars etc.
Thanks for your effort anyway.
Can anyone say what the dispaly/graphics tweaks do? Are they modifying certain registry entries?
Could someone tell us what is exactly changed, so we don't need to download that program, and can manually edit the registry entries?
Same for the SD Card tweak, what exactly is being changed here?
For learning for us all, I think it is much more interesting and important to know what is being done and being applied so we can learn from it and improve further, than just blindly install .CAB files!
I believe you can use advanced config to do all of those tweaks with the exception of the sd card tweak. I have no idea what is being done there.
The fastest X1 in the west !
After all your tweaking and performance enhancements, its time to put your X1's on the track. Tick all 6 benchmark catagories in SKTools5 and run the test, if anyone consistantly gets higher than any of these results please post your results, and any explanation or tools you may have to help us all improve.
Rules, there are none, may the fastest X1 win !
Custom Roms entries are welcome , any smokin hot rods out there ?
I have a stock Rom with a 16 gb sd card
Phone and wifi ( traction control ) off
Integer: 329
Floating point :7.47
Ram access:1519
Draw Bitmaps:797
Main storage (write):11070
Main storage (read):17066
Storage card (write): 483
Storage card (read): 16832
Can you brake the 800 barrier on Bitmaps ?
Can your SD card out run the 17,000 sound barrier
Mark A Cilenti said:
After all your tweaking and performance enhancements, its time to put your X1's on the track. Tick all 6 benchmark catagories in SKTools5 and run the test, if anyone consistantly gets higher than any of these results please post your results, and any explanation or tools you may have to help us all improve.
Rules, there are none, may the fastest X1 win !
Custom Roms entries are welcome , any smokin hot rods out there ?
I have a stock Rom with a 16 gb sd card
Phone and wifi ( traction control ) off
Integer: 329
Floating point :7.47
Ram access:1519
Draw Bitmaps:797
Main storage (write):11070
Main storage (read):17066
Storage card (write): 483
Storage card (read): 16786
Can you brake the 800 barrier on Bitmaps ?
Can your SD card out run the 17,000 sound barrier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, below are my Benchmark results :
Integer: 332.1045
Floating point :7.513
Ram access:1417
Draw Bitmaps:801
Main storage (write):11191.26
Main storage (read):16297.08
Storage card (write): 646
Storage card (read): 16384
Contender
Hi Chongbh
Nice Bitmaps, I bet your runnin a 4gb card ?
Mark A Cilenti said:
Hi Chongbh
Nice Bitmaps, I bet your runnin a 4gb card ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right. Still running on default 4GB MicroSD Card.
Mine with Jacks 1.06 ROM
Integer: 329.2297
Floating point :7.486
Ram access:1481
Draw Bitmaps:789
Main storage (write):10326.05
Main storage (read):15794.66
Ramdisk (write): 5394.21
Ramdisk (read): 16925.62
Although I think i've slowed it down a bit by installing/uninstalling too much stuff, perhaps it'll be better with a fresh installation
Ram disc nitrous !
Hi, THJahar
Whats the ramdisc, that more than 10 X my SD write, you,ve taken the lead, for now ha ha
Mine with Jacks 1.07 ROM
Integer: 328
Floating point :7.442
Ram access:1470
Draw Bitmaps:787
Main storage (write):11548
Main storage (read):15022
Ramdisk (write): 5242
Ramdisk (read): 15835
Ran twice
Thanks for this write up. I got:
Integer: 328.89
Floating point :7.521
Ram access:990
Draw Bitmaps:786
Main storage (write):8641.35
Main storage (read):11273.39
Storage card (write): 409.03
Storage card (read): 15633.59
Why are my numbers lower?
ok ran it again just to be sure:
Integer: 331.2134
Floating point :7.54
Ram access:1510
Draw Bitmaps:798
Main storage (write):8904.35
Main storage (read):13444.20
Storage card (write): 425.54
Storage card (read): 16605.41
Yay at least everything went up the 2nd time haha.
Hmmm whats the down side of applying all those tweaks?
battery life?
heat?
Can we undo all of those changes and get the phone back to what it was just in case something goes wrong ?
Thanks
what about the camera recording/encoding at vga?
any enhancement with these tweaks?
rotsu said:
Hmmm whats the down side of applying all those tweaks?
battery life?
heat?
Can we undo all of those changes and get the phone back to what it was just in case something goes wrong ?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
memory leaks = more freq. soft resets. they're all just registry changes so easy to revert.
aussiebum said:
memory leaks = more freq. soft resets. they're all just registry changes so easy to revert.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you talking about? Most tweaks are just use more memory for caching to increase performance. The SD cab probably just enable DMA to increase throughput. All of them has nothing to do w/ memory leak.
BTW, why use SKtool instead of SPB Benchmark? SPB takes much longer but provide more detail.