Database Users

ROM question

I have the tmobile MDA USA version. I am supposed to have 128 MB ROM. My device shows only 47.46 MB total storage 34.15 in use, and 13.32 free. I have SPB pocket plus, Avantgo, Agenda Fusion, and SK tools in main memory. Not many things want to go on the storage card. I am new to WM5, but I have had 3 Ipaqs so I am not a total rookie. Where is my storage, and whats hogging it up?

bandersnatch said:
I have the tmobile MDA USA version. I am supposed to have 128 MB ROM. My device shows only 47.46 MB total storage 34.15 in use, and 13.32 free. I have SPB pocket plus, Avantgo, Agenda Fusion, and SK tools in main memory. Not many things want to go on the storage card. I am new to WM5, but I have had 3 Ipaqs so I am not a total rookie. Where is my storage, and whats hogging it up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the marketing blurb never said you'd have 128MB free memory. you have to account for the OS and registry plus all installed apps.

Yep... basically, depending on the ROM/ExtRom/Radio Stack, etc. installed there's...
128MB total ROM
of which
44MB is available for storage of applications/user files
the rest is the operating system, extrom, etc.
and
64MB total RAM
of which
49MB is available for running programs/ memory
the rest of which is the PIM running in the background, the phone running in the background, the radio stack running in the background, etc. All stuff that either the OEM or Microsoft decided you wouldn't want not running
The real issue is that there are program that dislike running from the Storage Card. Write to the developers
( Of course, as the persistent storage is a form of flash memory, I don't see why we're not seeing phones with 512MB or 1GB built-in yet... )

That is kinda what I thought. It came with all the voice dial (which I am liking), and clearvue pdf (which I am not sure I need) bells and whistles. I guess I need to see what I can remove and what I can't. SD support seems to be lacking. I hear you when you say give the developers hell over it, but a lot of it is an OS issue I think.

I don't know if that's true... accessing files, which is pretty much all you need doing, on the MiniSD card is just fine. The only problem that I'm familiar with is that the driver starts after other bits, so any applications that run on startup may have issues. That much might be the OS's fault, but it might be the OEM's fault for putting the driver initialization where it is...

Leave the technical stuff to you guys
If you look at my profile, you will know that as soon as we start getting more than 6 inches deep into the thing, I am gonna start to get in trouble. My OS comment was intuitive and a gut feeling. I have no idea if it is accurate. I kinda understand about the memory, but I am imagining it as physical substance using physical space, etc.

Memory Allocation

I have a question which puzzles me - perhaps the knowledgeable amongst us can answer it for me.
I have 2 devices, an Orange SPV M2000 (Blue Angel) and an O2 MDA Mini S (Wizard).
When I look at the device info I see this
........................................BA......................Wizard
RAM Size.........................128MB....................64MB
Flash Size..........................32MB....................128MB
Storage Size..................43.26MB.................47.46MB
When I look at the Memory Screen, the BA has 125.77MB main memory showing 62.88MB allocated to Storage and 62.89MB allocated to Program and a slider to alter the split of memory.
When I look at the Memory on the Wizard there is no slider and it shows 44.76MB allocated to Storage and 44.01MB allocated to Program.
Whichever way I look at it I cannot seem to make sense of the figures.
Can someone explain (in simple terms) what these figures mean and why there is such a dramatic difference between the RAM and Flash sizes on these two devices?

First the major difference between Blue Angel and Wizard. Blue Angel stores everything - your programs, data, etc. in RAM. It uses this same RAM for program memory. That's why you get a slider. It's also why, if your battery runs out or your reset it, you lost all your stuff. The Wizard, on the other hand, has memory dedicated for data/settings storage that's like flash memory (so you won't lose your stuff), and different memory for the RAM.
depending on the ROM/ExtRom/Radio Stack, etc. installed there's...
128MB total ROM
of which
44MB is available for storage of applications/user files
the rest is the operating system, extrom, etc.
and
64MB total RAM
of which
49MB is available for running programs/memory
the rest of which is the PIM running in the background, the phone running in the background, the radio stack running in the background, etc. All stuff that either the OEM or Microsoft decided you wouldn't want not running.

Thanks 'Z'.
Now it all makes more sense.

Sorry to resurrect a somewhat buried thread, but I was doing my research before posting by using the search function -- not bad for a newbie, eh? -- and ran across this thread which directly addresses some questions I've been dealing with, but I'd like to throw some stuff out to see if I understand completely.
As I understand it, the Wizard has 64MB of SDRAM, and 128MB of Flash storage memory, correct? On the developer.cingular.com it says 64MB Flash ROM and 128MB SDRAM which appears to be backwards.
On the device Memory manager after a hard reset and installing the Qtek 9100 customization .cab Storage shows Free 43.75 of 47.46MB and Program shows Free 27.18 of 44.01MB.
As I understand it, "Storage" is refering to the Flash non-volatile memory, and "Program" is referring to RAM, correct?
So this means that of the 128MB of flash memory, ~80MB is hidden, including the customization .cab. Of the 64MB of flash memory, more than half is taken up by OS, radio and other things.
Do I have that right?
Now, one more thing. If I drag a 5MB file onto the device, the storage in use increases 5MB but Program isn't affected. This makes perfect sense.
Syncing, however is a different story. A small test sync of email, contacts, and calendar uses 2.68 Storage memory but 3.7MB of Program memory.
I take it from this that when you sync, it writes the pim info to the flash memory but then also automatically expands it into system memory. Do I understand that correctly?
If I am correct, is there any registry hack or anything that can change this behavior? Would it really slow things down so much if your PIM info had to be taken out of Storage memory? Or am I missing something?
Thanks for any responses.
Gene

I hope no one minds that I bump this, it's been several days.
I'm fairly sure my basic understanding of the situation is correct: contacts etc are loaded into persistent memory (ROM) then loaded into system RAM as well -- I speculate to speed searches and such because RAM is so much faster than Flash memory.
However this has a drawback in that whereas a 64MB RAM-only ppc 2003 device was able to handle >5,000 contacts with ease, on the Wizard it takes almost all of the RAM.
I know it's possible to reduce the amount of RAM (and ROM for that matter) being used by other applications but I'm wondering if anyone has explored or figured out a way to keep the PIM info in ROM (registry hack, perhaps) until it's actually needed, and what the repercussions if any were, ie did it make using the pim info unbearably slow?

I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.

I have a question here. Why doesn't HTC put more flash ROM storage (maybe 1GB of flash ROM) into its mobile phone? Then we don't need external SD memory card.

I'm sure they'll be increasing that in upcoming models. Only reason not to, typically, is to keep cost down a bit - and let the user add as much storage memory as they want; this is under the assumption that anything put on the storage card will work just fine, which is not the case with many applications :|

Simple questions on memory allocation

It took me a while to realize I'm confused, but it seems I'm confused about Hermes/WM5 memory allocation.
I've been using PocketPC's since PPC2000, there (and in PPC2002, PPC2003) the o/s resides in flash, and RAM is partitioned between storage and program memory. Thus, loading lots of applications to the device reduces the amount of program memory available for actually running programs. Those o/s had a slider to influence the balance of memory allocated.
Since I got my 8525 I've been assuming that it worked the same way, despite the loss of the memory slider. There have always been indications that I was wrong though - I never saw the memory balance shift, and nothing I've done seems to increase the program memory. Even removing several applications from Storage and installing them in Extended ROM didn't help. I'd LIKE to free up more program memory so apps like Mapopolis can use a LOT of it....
My Start->Settings->System->Memory page shows 56.22MB (Total) for Storage and 49.08MB (Total) for Program. When reading about the Samsung "stacked" (aka MCM) processor I realized that none of the variants listed had more than 64MB SDRAM, and 56.22+49.08 > 64!!!
It seems like either "Storage" now equals flash memory (vs volatile RAM in PPC2003 et al.) and/or there's more the 64MB of SDRAM in the Hermes or something. If all 64MB were available I'd expect more Program memory than 49MB....
I'm confused - Can someone explain or point me to an explanation of how the Hermes/WM5 allocates that SDRAM?
TIA,
Richard

Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM. See here:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview

pof said:
Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard

rsolomon said:
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These sometimes confuses people...
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total and then there is the rest running programs that take space, and about 30MB is free after clean boot on my device.
That's the way it has been programmed, mobile device programming is alot frustrating than on desktop PCs, so the memory handling is very important.
And don't mix those two when you said "56.22+49.08 > 64!!!", they are two separate memoryes. (56.xx being the 128 part and 49.xx being the 64 part).
Don't ask why microsoft excluded the memory allocation slider, maybe the older devices and OSs were differently programmed (memory handling).

gvoima said:
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That much is logical - not all 128MB of the flash is allocated to the file system mounted as "Storage" - clearly some is for Bootloader, Radio, etc.
Are you really saying the OS and user-writable storage share a filesystem? That seems counter-intuitive to me, though presumably there are user-inaccessible flags to prevent over-writing system files. In PPC2003 there was a ROM file system and a RAM filesystem overlaid so they appeared together. You seem to be saying that in WM5 the user filesystem lives in a portion of the flash - unlike a portion of RAM as it did in PPC2000-2003.
gvoima said:
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying WM5 hides ~16MB worth of RAM usage? Did PPC2003 execute O/S files in place then? I mean I can see that the o/s and running programs would take up space, but it's unclear to me why WM5 would report total memory lower than 64MB in that case.
TIA,
Richard

See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903

Got it
pof said:
See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that's got it - the MSDN blog links (that Lurker0 linked http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1027392) at least squared me away. Lemme see if I can summarize my own questions:
0) Prior to WM5 most of the OS *was* eXecute In Place (XIP) - certainly on the devices I owned. Now most devices do not support XIP for most of the O/S so more RAM is used in general to compensate.
1) Prior to WM5, PocketPC "Storage" *was* in RAM (for user data), with WM5 it's ALL in flash. Thus there's no sense installing to ExtendedROM vs Storage, because you still can't free up any RAM
2) WM5 *does* hide ~15MB of RAM usage - because they want to. So "Program" really is RAM and it's just stupid that reported Total doesn't match physical Total.
I was tainted by my previous PPC exposure I guess. Half the RAM means that Mapopolis for instance will then always be slower on my WM5 device than on my PPC2003 device - half the SDRAM clock speed doesn't help here either (iPAQ 5555 vs Hermes)
Thanks all!
Richard

1. There are still reasons to use Extended ROM instead of the Storage. The Storage is required for many tasks by the OS, it is wise to keep at least some megs of it free. But, as you can read around, not everything is recomennded for installing on a flash card. Here the External ROM can be in help, adding the storage that is always accessible by OS, and is not used by other means.
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.

Lurker0 said:
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - by "hide" I simply meant not reporting it. I'd be fine with MS showing 64MB total with 14MB used - I just got thrown by showing 50MB "Total". I grok their rationale for that reporting choice, I just don't agree
As I alluded above, I have a specific target app which performed well on a PPC2003 system with 128MB of RAM and which is performing much slower on a WM5 system with 64MB RAM. Reducing the app's dataset (maps in this case) brings performance back in line, so I believe I have a memory issue. I'm running an older version of the app due to a bug which is still outstanding against the WM5-certified versions, so I'm likely not getting any help the app COULD be giving the OS. Bummer for me
On the plus side, I've learned a bunch about WM5 memory usage which I didn't know yesterday....
Thanks!
Richard

Tmobile Wing ship ROM low memory

Hello everyone, so I got the T-mobile wing wich is the same as the Herald a couple of days ago, and the first thing I checked when I turned it on was the program memory and it was very disappointing at around 17MB then it went down from there I never saw the 17 again, I have a few apps installed and now my memory is around 9MB after soft reset. I am not liking this about this device especially after been spoiled with the Core 2.0n ROm on my MDA (wizard) I had more apps installed and still had over 25 MB of program memory left, as far as I know the only way to make this better is to flash it with a cooked rom, but since that is too risky at this point with not having a ship rom to go to if phone gets briked I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts or solutions for this issue.
by the way I think other then the size of the wing I like the wizard better in many ways. share your thoughts.

Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory

BRSG said:
Hummm... Are you installing your programs in storage memory or at the memory card? With exception of programs that interfere with the today screen, like wisbar advance for example, all programs should be installed in the memory card.
I have 19MB of storage memory still available... I've installed 19 programs, and only 5 are in the storage memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.

The problem is the pagepool.
All cooked rom for wizard have 4 or 8MB pagepool because that´s enough. I guess on wing it is the normal 12MB - too much.
We have to cook smaler ones and we will get back the big RAM like 30MB.
Let´s wait for official update and start cooking without the possibility of bricking.
lol

FZZF said:
I always install all programs on th mmory card I have a 2GB and I have 15 apps installed and 24.4 MB internal storage memory left so that one is ok, but I was talking about RAM memory that programs need to run not storage memory the on the right side when ou open the memory screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...

low memory on wing
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.

BRSG said:
Weird It is a fact that more today plugins result in less program memory, and there are some programs that even not being placed in today screen need alot of memory to run. I have about 20MB of free program memory. Maybe you should try to see which programs are using that much memory to run...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have the HTC p4350 so I am sure it's runing on different rom, I think the problem is with the T-Mobile USA Rom, it has too much crap on it I even did a soft reset right before customization to prevent the t-MO stuff to install and that gave me an extra 7MB of storage but no better on the program memory and the timobile stuff still installed. I did turn off all plug ins I even shut down all unnecessary processes with memmaid and the best I got was 13MB so I am pretty sure it's the rom and I thnk Papa is right it may have to do with the page pool and or a combination of both page pool and all the T-Mobile garbage in the rom.

cyberjr said:
I am experiencing the same thing. It sad when you have no programs running except for Activesync, and you can not even power up the camera. I have a T-mobile WdG care rep looking into it. The only other program i have installed is the slingplayer. I also have notice the a sling player error message showing not enough memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it is sad when a cooked rom is a million times better then a ship rom made by the biggest software company in the world as Papa said I am waiting for an updated rom to be available to go back to in case something goes wrong while flashing a cooked rom, and it is only a matter of time before we can flash custom roms question is how long, I dont know how long I can handle the frustration of using this thing I installed IGO GPS yesterday and it would not run because of lack of memory so I think I am going back to the wizard until I can flash this dumb thing and by the way I don't think the T-mobile rep will come up with a solution but if he does please share it with us.

A lot of tweaking needed
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.

Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.

dll
kevinwatson5 said:
I had to use Memmaid and move dll's to storage card and moved IE cache and email attachments to storage card too. Then I killed Live Search from the startup services as well as removed all things in the startup folder except services.lnk. I have two apps on the today screen and I am booting up with 20mb's free. It took some time but this will be a temporary fix until new ROM's make it here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?

interesting, I tried runing IGO nav and it reported an error saying it needed 6MB of memory to run I had to soft reset to get it to work, last night I installed SKTools and did some more tweeking with it and gained about 2MB of memory but not much I am wondering if the rom has some memory leaks somewhere because I can't even fin what apps are using so much memory at start up I got rid of most of them the only one I cant get rid of it the myfavs.

ericizzy1 said:
did u move all the dll's to the storage card on the tmobile wing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.

hi
kevinwatson5 said:
not all dlls will move like the omap and a few system dll's but I moved almost 8 I think, depends on how many apps you have installed too. I uninstalled some of the system software like oz im and tmobile mail wizard and had all of them running off the storage card too. I am getting 20mb free upon bootup and all the things are working as far as I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if u could only tell me which dll's(that came installed on the wing) u moved, it will be great.

dll's
I moved everyone that Memmaid would allow me to move, the ones that were in use could not be moved and that was only a couple.

Here's what I did and I have like 15mb to spare
I did a hard reset on my Wing - then, when T-mo's customizations started/tried to run, I did a soft reset (thus preventing their installation).
From this point I installed any and everything that i wished to have on my phone
(in my case this consisted of: total Commander; Sleuth's WM6VOIP; HTC Home Plug Today Plugin; RvBCrS HTC Startup animation; A_C Slide2Unlock; Chi-Tai Dang batteryStatus TD-Plugin; T-Mobile Soft Key Applet; PPCSoft psShutXP; HTC Audio Manager; The Equinoxe Wizard Retouched Dialer2; and By Boto XDA-Developers HTC Touch Comm Manager)
As you can see, I installed a lot of stuff and still I have sufficient room left on my device. will say that inevitably you may want to reset your device about once a day or so - because it appears to slow down and lose memory over time, but all in all it's no worse than my MDA ever was, plus I still have my MDA if I missed it that much (Which I don't).

xander803 said:
Using the dumped rom from the thread in the mobile 6 forum I was able to change the pagepool to 4 as well as strip out most of t-mobile's junk. While stripping out the extras did help, i'm not convinced that changing the pagepool will help. It certainly did increase the amount of free ram (27 at start dropping and hovering at 19 after several days) however I started noticing weird issues that I hadn't noticed with a 12 mb pagepool. Things like the today screen not refreshing or the wlan not starting. I'm think some of the device drivers may need to stay resident in the pagepool for normal functionality.
Overall, I've switched back to the 12 mb pagepool and everything works perfectly. The amount of free ram does get pretty low (around 4 mb) after opening all my programs but everything will still operate normally. I suspect the number reported may be somewhat misleading (like linux and vista) where it is using your free ram for caching purposes. Again i am basing this off the fact that everything will still load and work normally with low reported free ram. This is just a very long way to say that changing pagepool may introduce a new set of problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it possible to use an empty extended rom to stop some of those problems???

Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.

dangtong said:
Just want to share the info on solving the problem with the Wing mem problem.
I read and followed the instruction HERE. I have set the cache mem to 6mb. I now always have 11-15mb available and the phone is responsive. And the phone is been going strong for 2 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you running in background??????
I have 26MB free while SPB mobile shell, today agenda and batterystatus are running - and 22MB when activesync is connected!
BUT i have the terra. But even without pagepoolchanging i had 20MB free. After all programs are installed.
So what are you running?????

got 8 free and only Mobile shell, Phone Suit and Weather running
**** this device

program memory question

Hi everyone,
am quite new to these boards, and have only just got myself a secondhand xda IIs. In the last half a yer I have owned a HTC hermes, universal & kaiser but have finally settled on the BA because the design just suits me more. So far so good- am very happy!
I am a complete noob though and having just upgraded to WM6 from WM2003SE (following the WIKI guide & wizard) I am a bit puzzled about my phomnes' memory capacity and what goes where....
Reading over the forum I have heard how the reformating of exended rom (?) etc can increase your available storage to 128mb as part of the upgrade process. This I did with the unlocker and formatting tool. But upon upgradeing it seems I have only 64mb available for storage , but 100mb for 'programs'.... I am a bit confused. To make it worse when I load programs on the phone it actually reduces the storage capacity available rather than the 'program' memory- of which I have 75mb free that I can't seem to get at!! Can anyone please tell me what I am doing wrong or else point me in the direction of where I can educate myself about this? ....I know it is a very basic question, but am a complete novice to pdas since the last 6 months so please don't flame me!!
Thanks

Think of this in desktop computer terms.
Storage == hard drive
Program memory == RAM
explanation:
programs are installed to either storage or storage card. programs run using program memory.

hey tnx, i was looking for such info too tnx m8 for the help

Thanks! Crystal clear now!

one (or so) more quetion...
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)

I think you may have missed the point: storage is flash memory, program memory is RAM. The difference is that pre-WM5 flash memory held your vanilla system, Extended ROM, and the default (for hard reset). Everything else that you customised or installed went into RAM, which was therefore split between storage of programs and data and program memory. Remember how when your battery went flat your device lost everything? That's why, and why a backup battery was needed. WM5 and later devices do not need or have backup batteries.
Since WM5 all programs and user data are stored in flash: this can make performance slower but ensures that you survive a power failure unscathed. There are ways to get round the performance issues, compressing files with UPX saves space AND time because reading a smaller file from flash is obviously quicker, and expanding it in RAM goes very fast indeed. However I would not want to overstate the performance hit that you experience working from flash.
So this is why you have lost the ability to manage the memory split - it's nothing to worry about and indeed I am very pleased because my BA now has more program memory than my Hermes.
Hope this helps!
jbn

ssjw1000 said:
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to jbn's answer above you can also use a ROM that has a RAMDISK. This takes a portion of the RAM and creates a folder that you can use as a filesystem. Many people prefer these, I do not. I use my SD card and my onboard storage and have no problems with space. If you decide to go with a RAMDISK enabled ROM beware that you will loose anything you install to that section of the filesystem if your batter and backup batter go dead. Exactly the same behavior you had with WM2003 in your BA originally.