Requests/suggestions please for WM 6.1 cookers considering their next release:
- 64 MB Program Memory
- Absolute bare skeleton WM 6.1
- essential candidates for removal:
> customer feedback
> windows live
> any windows help & support related bloatware
> error reporting
> search
> windows media player
> any animated items, icons, etc..
> junk items under \windows; unnecessary gif,jpg,bmp,png
etc, text files
- single boot screen, no splash, animations etc..
minimize WM 6.1 boot time
- removal of other misc bloatware, vaporware that are not
core to the function, speed and stability of WM 6.1
======================================================
To the site Administrators:
-------------------------
- can we initiate a donation bucket in which people may contribute
and pool donations?
- 1 month period (or other) in which donations can be collected and
cookers may submit their best releases
- the people (users) vote during the period on what they find to be
the most efficient, stable, fast, clean and best performing rom.
- at the end of the period the donation pool is distributed to the top 3
most voted cookers, e.g. 60%/25%/15% respectively.
======================================================
Suggestions, ideas, recommendations, criticism etc certainly
welcome.
Thanks to all
--kara
64M program memory mean No WM.
why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,
ks1781 said:
why?
is there a maximum?
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are really someone )
Trinity have only 64MB build in , how come it have 64MB program memory ? DId you have brain ?
--yes,
if the device has 64 MB SDRAM, why is it that most cooked roms
generally present approx. 50 MB of that?
is this a limitation or is missing 14 MB used for a special purpose?
Thanks for any advice.
?? because it takes up space to install the operating system.. even a 'bare bones' operating system is still an operating system..
did you ever wonder why there's space missing from your hard drive after you install windows xp?
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
Memory ROM: 128 MB
RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
What is the ROM 128 MB designated for?
Thanks for your patience with me.
--kara
if i understand him correctly, he is referring to the program memory i.e. RAM not ROM. the 128MB ROM is meant for installation of OS (WM) where the 64MB RAM is the execution power. we normally get ~20MB-25MB RAM free out of 64MB total. i believed the rest (64MB - 25MB) was used for other services once WM started.
yes, that is what i'm trying to understand..
in this p3600 specification from HTC:
http://www.htc.com/www/product.aspx?id=470
it lists>
128 MB ROM
64 MB RAM
=================================================
for the 128 MB ROM
I assume the 128 MB ROM contains the OS installation, with
some component of this ROM hidden/reserved.
E.g. some cooked roms released have 'Big Storage'
~70 MB available to the user for NV storage
the remaining 58 MB comprises OS installation and a reserved
area.
=================================================
for the 64 MB RAM
This is the volatile memory available for the OS to boot & run, and
for program execution.
However, on most cooked roms I have used, under
Settings -> System -> Memory
'Program Total' is reported as ~50 MB.
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??
as dum as it sounds i've wondered about that too
even formatting issues aside (like how hard drive capacity is always lower than reported), 14MB seems like a lot to 'go missing'.
why doesnt WM even report it? because its being used by the system for services? so then why does it ALSO report itself using around 20MB of what's left?
that way, it's like 14 MB used (hidden) + approx. 20MB reported (shown) = approx. 34MB total? :/ hmm
ks1781 said:
So my question is - where is the remaining 14 MB RAM??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK - You have a PC with 1GB of RAM say. Once say windows xp has booted up - your AV started etc. you probably have 684MB say of RAM left, so Where did the other 340MB of RAM go to?
Think about it.
wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about
Just think that Windows XP takes 250/300 mb of ram space....
PS: Please edit your title... Someone could understand that you really have a 64mb free ram rom......
joncgde2 said:
wtf i still don't get it... dont be mad
i mean mine reports 2096236 KB... a full 2048MB of RAM
BUT of course 100-300 minimum will always be in use for the system itself
whereas in WM, it reports like 48MB total, AND say approx. 20MB in use
ok so the 20MB minimum in use will ALWAYS be in use because of windows mobile itself. FINE.
but why does it only represent 48MB as available?
and if that is the case, there's that missing unreported 12MB, PLUS that minimum 20MB always in use
that's what im curious about
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it is for the Radio Rom etc...or maybe Microsoft are stealing Ram and stockpiling it....lol
This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.
tetsuo55 said:
This is actually a valid question.
The system has 64MB of ram, some how 14MB of this ram is allocated away before the OS loads. This leaves 50MB of ram left for the OS, which uses about 20 MB and leaves 30 MB of ram for applications.
I think everyone understands this part.
The question is, what part of the phone is pre-allocating 14MB of ram.
My only guess is the videocard, if not that then it might be the pagefile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does it really matter where it goes? Obviously if that memory hasn't been exploited yet by the excellent cookers etc in here....then it can't be of any benefit.
I concur with tetsuo55.
The reasoning proposed by Andych and others still does not quite
correlate.
i.e. 64 = 14 (OS) + ~20 (progs) + ~30 free
the ~20 is supposedly attributed to basic progs,
e.g. phone, filesys, mail etc..
A listing of such process summates to approx. 8 MB total.
That still leaves 12 MB of unaccounted for basic function
and userland process consumption.
Regarding the ATI video chip, general investigation and
settings check of tcpmp would suggest at best it is a
4 MB chip (whether dedicated or shared)
I cant see the 'remaining ~14 MB' that I'm searching for
being used for paging. Paging is part of overall virtual memory,
and involves page outs/ins to a location on some type
of physical media. Additionally, with the usual ~ 30 MB
ram free, in the context of these devices, a swap requirement
is unlikely given the 'free' memory available.
Although 14 MB may seem peanuts compared to standard desktop
ram configurations today - with a p3600 + WM, recovering the
14 MB (if possible) would provide a much welcomed bonus to
the trinity.
--kara
ahh now we're onto something good work ks1781...
i fully agree with the need to just find out the answer to this... most likely it's something that will be perfectly explainable and make sense and we won't be able to do anything once we find out
but it sure would be nice to know
OK I have the 'answer' - straight from a Windows Mobile blog - I'll post it here cos it's all straight to the point and interesting (somewhat) Link is HERE
The Page Pool
Applications use RAM in two ways. There is code that runs, and there is data that is created while it is running. On a NOR device, the code can run directly from the ROM and not be loaded into RAM first. This process is called XIP (eXecute In Place). NAND devices can't XIP, so their code is loaded into RAM and executed from there. If you don't have a Page Pool, this code is loaded into normal RAM. The Page Pool is a mechanism to limit how much code is loaded into normal RAM. With a Page Pool, we can unload code that hasn't been used in a while and reload it later if we need to. We can't do that without a Page Pool.
On a typical NAND-based WM5 device, the Page Pool is 4.5M.
The Radio Stack
Devices with a Cellular Radio have a complicated bunch of code to make their radios talk to cell towers. On some devices, the radio is a self-contained module with its own RAM and ROM. On others, the radio code is stored in the normal system flash. If so, it either needs to XIP, or it needs to be run in RAM. If it's run in RAM, that RAM is taken away from the system.
A typical radio stack takes 4M.
DMA Buffers
Some hardware can write directly into RAM without using the CPU to do it. This is called "Direct Memory Access" or DMA. DMA is very efficient and lets you get a lot more data transferred in the same amount of time, usually for less power. But it's best to set aside your DMA buffers before the system boots. This guarantees that they're there when you need them. PocketPCs have been doing this for a decade. But, back in the old days, the main use for DMA was audio capture. Audio data is small, so the DMA buffers are also small. Video, on the other hand, is big. More data requires bigger DMA buffers.
An OEM will tune the size of the pre-allocated DMA buffers based on what the device is intended to do. If the main goal is still photos, you can use a much smaller buffer. If the goal is recording video, it needs a much larger buffer. If the goal is video conferencing, it needs a bigger buffer still.
DMA buffers range in size between 300K and 6M. For a video capture device, it's likely to use around 4M.
XIPKernel
There are portions of the deepest parts of the OS that have to XIP. If you're on NOR, that code just XIPs like everything else. Not so on NAND. For a NAND system to boot, it needs to load this code into RAM first and then run it from there. When the system is running, it can't really tell if it's running from RAM or ROM, so it assumes it's running from ROM and doesn't count this space.
The XIPKernel region tends to be between 1.5 and 2M.
The Frame Buffer
There is a chunk of RAM set aside to hold everything that's on the screen. (If you want to know more about it, read this.) On most devices, every dot on the screen needs two bytes. A typical Pocket PC has 240x320 dots. That would be 300K. If you have a 640x480 screen, it's 600K. Sometimes, for performance reasons, devices will have two frame buffers. So this could take up to 1.2M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks joncgde2 - good find which provides a sufficient explanation as to the 'hidden' 14 MB.
There is still another question.
WM reports ~24 MB in use (per earlier screen captures) - where 'in use'
is attributed to running applications.
Checking a process listing via task manager shows the total
apparent RAM in use by these 'running applications' to be ~8 MB.
Can anyone provide an explanation to account for the
remaining ~16 MB??
Related
The reported/quoted imate specs say 128MB flash ROM and 64MB SDRAM.
My device reports:
Storage Memory Total 43.72MB
Program Memory Total 47.93MB
With no applications other than the branded OS installed (33.05MB 'In use by both Storage and Programs) giving that leaves
Storage Memory Free 30.47MB
Program Memory Free 28.14MB
Where is the missing 158MB of memory? How can I access the missing memory?
Also, what happens if I install applications to the SD card. Do they still work?
Yes, they would still work if you instlal programms on storage card.
This is strange, as I think there should be more storage memory than you have right now. About 17 Megs of your memory is also being used by useless cab files which were there for the first time install.. There are ways and means to reformat the drive and actually gain all this space (Extended_Rom) but it involves some advanced tricks in doing this. Nevertheless The rom should more storage not just 40 Megs (?) can someone else confirm this is the available ROM on the JasJar?
I can't add up
My earlier post should not say missing 158MB of memory, cause if you add up my figures there is just 100MB missing. Had a long day messing around with my new device, and as I say my maths ain't that hot anyway.
Thanks for the advice on installing apps to the storage card.
Same here 43.72MB Storage memory and 47.93MB Program memory.
Not happy.
memory
Expansys website states the following specs:
Memory
• Flash ROM: 128 MB
• RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
can be found here:
http://www.expansys.com.au/product.asp?code=119353
If it doesnt match, I would be sending it back, or sueing for false advertising.
What the hell is going on here, $1650 for this device and it has less memory than a Jam and lieing on the website. mmmmmmmm, I would be mad, real mad, someone should die for this, this is worse than the new Telstra boss.
memory
yeah i already ordered mine and am waiting on it to see. i know the way it interprets and runs is different to previous versions, ie my understanding is a hard reset retains its data, so it means it installs directly to ROM and stays there.
From that I can only summise that you can install a maximum of 128 meg of operating system and software direct to ROM, but can only run a maximum of 64 meg into RAM at any point in time, including the operating system, data, and applications.
Then you only use the RAM when you launch the applications, but this would also require the ppc to use some of it, which would appear to be about 20 meg from the previous stats, leaving a max of 40 meg to actually be running at any point in time.
Anyway, wait and see, hopefully should only be about a week as we are on the otherside of the world from where most people are getting them from.
Eitherway, it appears to the best state of the art phone currently available, so we'll just have to see.
Anybody that has already got one, how long does the battery last when running the WIFI? I know my XDAII with a Netgear CF can be drained in a little over 1 hour including the backpacks battery and the main battery.
ROM and RAM size fine
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Re: ROM and RAM size fine
vpreHoose said:
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how much price did u pay for imate jasjar in Dubai.
thx
I am dissapointed. My PDA2K has all my major apps installed and still has 18MB free.
The jasJAR with just tomtom5 installed has only 20MB free.
The OS takes up about 84.5Mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? when i loaded 2005 on my BA, the OS was 32mb???
On all my PCs, I have known how much storage space is at my disposal. But not on the Universal.
The user manual states that the device has
ROM: 128 Mb RAM: 64 Mb
But using Settings -> System -> Memory, I get the information that the space is 43.72 Mb for storage and 47.93 Mb for programs.
That makes almost 91 Mb. What is the relationship between these 91 Mb and the ROM and RAM? And when I use File Explorer (or Total Commander), I cannot see any distinction between areas for storage and programs.
Can anybody remove my confusion?
Welcome to the world of Windows Mobile 5...
128 MB ROM is divided into space for the operating system (+- 64 MB) and persistent storage (this is where you have 43.72 MB available). Persistent storage will preserve your data even when the battery is flat.
The RAM is no longer user controllable, and you cannot (easily) store anything there. So the 47.93 MB for programs is purely informational. No more slider where you can shift between storage and program memory.
obviously you are new... but please, research and read the existing thousands of discussion and contributions by hundreds of people on this same topic.
it is expired, old and tedium when the answers are here, over and over and over again.
there is a search function, it works try it.
Here's how it goes:
he Universal comes with 128MB ROM and 64MB RAM as compared to its predecessors who had the exact opposite.
The 128MB ROM is divided into 2 parts:
1) OS + Extended ROM (around 84MB)
2) Storage (remaining 43.5MB as shown above
The 64MB RAM is 90% available to run programs. As with the earlier version of the OS, there is no longer a provision to alter the memory allocated between storage and program memory. Of the 64MB RAM, around 15MB RAM is used for running the OS while the rest (47.93 MB) is left for running installed programs. This is more than enough to do multi-tasking without hiccups.
Hope this helps If you still have any queries about it, please feel free to ask.
hansof feel free to ask anything you want, we arent all smart arses like simon_dreary. In my experience the search function is rubbish.
It took me a while to realize I'm confused, but it seems I'm confused about Hermes/WM5 memory allocation.
I've been using PocketPC's since PPC2000, there (and in PPC2002, PPC2003) the o/s resides in flash, and RAM is partitioned between storage and program memory. Thus, loading lots of applications to the device reduces the amount of program memory available for actually running programs. Those o/s had a slider to influence the balance of memory allocated.
Since I got my 8525 I've been assuming that it worked the same way, despite the loss of the memory slider. There have always been indications that I was wrong though - I never saw the memory balance shift, and nothing I've done seems to increase the program memory. Even removing several applications from Storage and installing them in Extended ROM didn't help. I'd LIKE to free up more program memory so apps like Mapopolis can use a LOT of it....
My Start->Settings->System->Memory page shows 56.22MB (Total) for Storage and 49.08MB (Total) for Program. When reading about the Samsung "stacked" (aka MCM) processor I realized that none of the variants listed had more than 64MB SDRAM, and 56.22+49.08 > 64!!!
It seems like either "Storage" now equals flash memory (vs volatile RAM in PPC2003 et al.) and/or there's more the 64MB of SDRAM in the Hermes or something. If all 64MB were available I'd expect more Program memory than 49MB....
I'm confused - Can someone explain or point me to an explanation of how the Hermes/WM5 allocates that SDRAM?
TIA,
Richard
Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM. See here:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_HardwareOverview
pof said:
Hermes has Samsung KD5657ACA-D090 chip provides 128Mb NAND Flash + 64Mb Mobile SDRAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard
rsolomon said:
Thanks pof! That's the one I thought it was - but I'm even more confused about the allocation of the 64MB now. If all of it goes to Program, how come I only get 49MB? If it gets split, how come Storage + Program is more than 64MB?
Ugh, I'm confused
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These sometimes confuses people...
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total and then there is the rest running programs that take space, and about 30MB is free after clean boot on my device.
That's the way it has been programmed, mobile device programming is alot frustrating than on desktop PCs, so the memory handling is very important.
And don't mix those two when you said "56.22+49.08 > 64!!!", they are two separate memoryes. (56.xx being the 128 part and 49.xx being the 64 part).
Don't ask why microsoft excluded the memory allocation slider, maybe the older devices and OSs were differently programmed (memory handling).
gvoima said:
But, the stated "Storage: 56.96" is the 128MB part, in that resides the whole OS, ExtROM etc. So in the end there is only 56.96 available for the system to use, plus the other installed programs that cuts it down to about 30MB free after a clean boot (that's just the way it is thanks to our lovely microsoft programmers <3)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That much is logical - not all 128MB of the flash is allocated to the file system mounted as "Storage" - clearly some is for Bootloader, Radio, etc.
Are you really saying the OS and user-writable storage share a filesystem? That seems counter-intuitive to me, though presumably there are user-inaccessible flags to prevent over-writing system files. In PPC2003 there was a ROM file system and a RAM filesystem overlaid so they appeared together. You seem to be saying that in WM5 the user filesystem lives in a portion of the flash - unlike a portion of RAM as it did in PPC2000-2003.
gvoima said:
The thing is that when you boot your device, the machine loads the whole OS to the running program memory and allocates some of it to important system files, that's why there is 48.80 total
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying WM5 hides ~16MB worth of RAM usage? Did PPC2003 execute O/S files in place then? I mean I can see that the o/s and running programs would take up space, but it's unclear to me why WM5 would report total memory lower than 64MB in that case.
TIA,
Richard
See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903
Got it
pof said:
See also this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=278903
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, that's got it - the MSDN blog links (that Lurker0 linked http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1027392) at least squared me away. Lemme see if I can summarize my own questions:
0) Prior to WM5 most of the OS *was* eXecute In Place (XIP) - certainly on the devices I owned. Now most devices do not support XIP for most of the O/S so more RAM is used in general to compensate.
1) Prior to WM5, PocketPC "Storage" *was* in RAM (for user data), with WM5 it's ALL in flash. Thus there's no sense installing to ExtendedROM vs Storage, because you still can't free up any RAM
2) WM5 *does* hide ~15MB of RAM usage - because they want to. So "Program" really is RAM and it's just stupid that reported Total doesn't match physical Total.
I was tainted by my previous PPC exposure I guess. Half the RAM means that Mapopolis for instance will then always be slower on my WM5 device than on my PPC2003 device - half the SDRAM clock speed doesn't help here either (iPAQ 5555 vs Hermes)
Thanks all!
Richard
1. There are still reasons to use Extended ROM instead of the Storage. The Storage is required for many tasks by the OS, it is wise to keep at least some megs of it free. But, as you can read around, not everything is recomennded for installing on a flash card. Here the External ROM can be in help, adding the storage that is always accessible by OS, and is not used by other means.
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.
Lurker0 said:
2. You may call it "hide" but WM5 actually uses it. Well, the way it uses such an amount of RAM makes it hidden from the tools that calculate total available RAM. But that paging pool is a wise solution. For instance, Symbian OS 9.1 phones (S60 3rd edition, UIQ3.0) use RAM uniformly, and, as such, the same 64MB is just not enough for all (OS, built-in apps, user installed apps). WM5, employing the virtual memory, uses RAM a smarter way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - by "hide" I simply meant not reporting it. I'd be fine with MS showing 64MB total with 14MB used - I just got thrown by showing 50MB "Total". I grok their rationale for that reporting choice, I just don't agree
As I alluded above, I have a specific target app which performed well on a PPC2003 system with 128MB of RAM and which is performing much slower on a WM5 system with 64MB RAM. Reducing the app's dataset (maps in this case) brings performance back in line, so I believe I have a memory issue. I'm running an older version of the app due to a bug which is still outstanding against the WM5-certified versions, so I'm likely not getting any help the app COULD be giving the OS. Bummer for me
On the plus side, I've learned a bunch about WM5 memory usage which I didn't know yesterday....
Thanks!
Richard
HTC state that the blackstone has 288MB of ram installed .Throught the various roms a have tried the avalable total ram varies between 195mb and 207mb nowhere near the 288MB that is installed. the question is where is this missing ram bqing used if at all ans if not where is the controll for the ram useage and how can we fully utalise the ram imstalled.
hows can we use all the ram installed on our blackstones there must me some modification or change that will allow us utilize ram fully.
A quick reply :
Its used by ROM-- its like running explorer.exe in windows, or something!!!
But I dont know correctly and I would also wish to hear the full storyof "why is ram missing???"
Just a little google result: http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/29/498154.aspx
Afaik stuff like the page pool is used for this. Also the built in GPU is using this part of the RAM as its own.
i know that the rom some how takes this ram why i dont know or if its evan useing it because othere htc devices with basicaly the same hardwear setup show the full ram and other devices from htc all show the full amount or ram installed.
if anyone knows the full reasons ans mechibism for this please can you inform me. evam if its being used maybe theres a way to optimise it and use more for programs.
i know its not fixed cos between different roms iv used ic seen it vary between 93 and 81mb
i know that the rom some how takes this ram why i dont know or if its evan useing it because othere htc devices with basicaly the same hardwear setup show the full ram and other devices from htc all show the full amount or ram installed.
if anyone knows the full reasons ans mechibism for this please can you inform me. evam if its being used maybe theres a way to optimise it and use more for programs.
i know its not fixed cos between different roms iv used ic seen it vary between 93 and 81mb missing. so it can definatly varie but can we get full use of it.
i think i've read somewhere that the gpu itself uses 64MB as its cache. so 288-64=224MB
subtract the bootloader, bios (not sure if pdas have bios, but from my understandings, it should...)
nobody really cares that a HP comp with integrated gpu onboard, with 1024MB ram installed, shows smth like 980MB in windows.. its the same, bios, gpu cache etc..
On this pda its more visible cause 64MB from say 2048MB is nothing, 64MB from 288MB is 22%
but, i can be wrong...
clarity
ok iv done a bit of testing. its definatly not the page pool iv used a tool to adjust the page pool and it had no effec. the bios dosnt use ram they use eeprom. and the bootloader shouldnt segragate ram so the ram it uses should still register in windows. but someone who knows exactly what the missing ram is doing would be able to tell us for sure. so anyone out there that dose know please help.
x1 use some of the ram for "video card" mem
not sure if the same is true for blackstone
shazk21 said:
HTC state that the blackstone has 288MB of ram installed .Throught the various roms a have tried the avalable total ram varies between 195mb and 207mb nowhere near the 288MB that is installed. the question is where is this missing ram bqing used if at all ans if not where is the controll for the ram useage and how can we fully utalise the ram imstalled.
hows can we use all the ram installed on our blackstones there must me some modification or change that will allow us utilize ram fully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
256 MB RAM + 32 MB for GPU = 288 MB RAM
They included the RAM used by the radio core to device specs, 32 out of 288Mb are used by the radio core, so main core is only able to access 256Mb directly. Frame buffer for GPU, kernel log, etc. are allocated from these 256Mb too, so you get even less for the OS. OS kernel (data) resides partially in RAM, so you would typically get <192Mb available after kernel boot that goes down to <128Mb after all drivers, services and user programs are loaded.
I never ran out of RAM on my Blackstone so far, why is this a problem to you?
stepw said:
They included the RAM used by the radio core to device specs, 32 out of 288Mb are used by the radio core, so main core is only able to access 256Mb directly. Frame buffer for GPU, kernel log, etc. are allocated from these 256Mb too, so you get even less for the OS. OS kernel (data) resides partially in RAM, so you would typically get <192Mb available after kernel boot that goes down to <128Mb after all drivers, services and user programs are loaded.
I never ran out of RAM on my Blackstone so far, why is this a problem to you?
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im not talking about crashing and freezing constantly but it dosnt take much to bog the system down.
hit about 65% it starts to slow more than 70% and ur living in slow motion more than 80% and your grinding to a hault. the % iv stated are representative of used ram as shown by htc task manager.
i do alot of surfing and that alond can gets me into the 60s and 70s espetialy if there more complex graphic based sites. i also use my phone as a remote client amoungst otherthingsand multi tasking is out of the question as you dont have much room to move memory wise.
secondly its about optimisation from what i can tell from the specs the blackstone can perform much better than it dose an varying fields if we can resolve something holing back its performance then were one step closer to fully utalising the heardware.
as gregy74 informed us 32mb is for the gpu which makes the numbers make sence. the radio heardware wont share memory arcitecrure withe the devices main memory its also very unlickly the gpu dose that would mean that 225mb of heardware was installed, now knowing what i know about memory (not specific to pdas unfortunatly) that is very hard and uneconomical.
as iv stated there has been qute a varyance in total ram visable to the os if some of this ram that is partitioned away is used by kurnals y such a varyance and would it not be possable to use the internal flash to load these perhaps in a seperat partion.
lastly and importantly to be clear step w i am not talking about the amount of ram avalable after a full boot (oh and the kurnals drivers ect are part of the os) i am talking about the total amount of ram visable to the os.
hello
is there any hack to bypass or increase the 32 MB memory limit in WM 5 , 6 , 6.1 Or 6.5?
I am using a program that stops at 32 MB memory usage and It needs around 40+ MB to complete?
I seriously doubt it, as each application gets a 32MB "slot" of virtual memory to use, so there's a 32MB per process limit.
Are you using QEMU?
However, maybe this is possible.
We'll know if it's possible as soon as I try to run QEMU and install WindowsXP on my HTC HD2
If the WinXP installation will be fine and taking over 32MB of RAM, then it's possible even on other devices.
Why I'm talking about HD2?
This is simple.
The HD2 got a lot of RAM and this is a new device.. and maybe HTC has removed this limit. If this will work, I hope the limitation isn't in the NativeKernel!
The limitation is in the native kernel. It doesn't matter how many RAM your device actually got. The whole memory management is build up on it. I doubt you could change that with a little hack. Actually I guess there's a lot more behind it than only a merely "if size >= 32K"....
Wait for WM 7 which is based on Windows CE 6 (or later) which doesn't have that limitation anymore, since they completely rewrote the native kernel therefore.
I guess you could use multiple processes... It sucks, but I don't see another choice. The limit per process is 32 Mb. There is no limit on an app per-se afaik...
charge1313 said:
I guess you could use multiple processes... It sucks, but I don't see another choice. The limit per process is 32 Mb. There is no limit on an app per-se afaik...
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Solution.
With a 32MB page per process, your only choice is to develop your app in multiple processes.
Sorry!