Database Users

**The big "call with VOIP over 3G" Topic**

Anybody had tested yet ?
We did with skype and it beeps a lot after a time. Any other solutions that work well and faster then skype ?

Nobody ?

I think in the UK the data rates are so high that this sort of functionality just isn't worth it

Working here in South Africa. Operators have priced data to allow us to use VOIP:
Call cost=Z per min
1Mb=Z/2 per min
VOIP uses 1Mb/min, but BOTH parties pay so MNO gets 2 x Z/2 = Z
Thus VOIP=Voice for them
More or less - numbers crudely correct, in truth they require some more traffic to close the gap, but then Z is often lower on packages; principle holds.
Having said that, Skype is truly problematic! I battle to fire it up half the time, and I can FORGET having it open and waiting for a call! Even latest beta is crap. I tried some other SIP-type proggies in the past (mainly required WiFi bandwidth), and will try again after a big project I'm on after this month.

VOIP products are not all equal
When using voip there are several key issues to consider.
1) Speed of the connection, is the link actually capable of delivering enough bandwidth for the selected codec.
2) Is the cost of the data required by the codec economically viable given the high cost of mobile data.
3) Is the quality of the voice offered by the codec sufficient to satify the customer.
The problem with most of the services being offered to PPC users is no one has bothered to pay a license fee for the development of a PPC soft client that uses g723, this costs $1 million USD for a full license. Otherewise you needto pay a per user cost. On PC windows XP 2k etc. microsoft bundles this codec licence. With skype on pc you use the microsoft licence. That is why Skype on PPC uses g711 @ 84kbps per second. So on most tariffis it is not viable for using on 3g.
Also the standard GSM codec is licence exempt and uses far less bw than g711 lless than 25%, however most voip SP do not have the capability to transcodec GSM to g711 or g723/g729. There fore I am not aware of any current SP that really supports this. I run a company called www.trans-call.com and we are in the early stages of developing a service that will do this. Our SSW supports sip, h323 with g723, g711,g729 and GSM codecs.
However the outbound routes we purchase are all g723/g729, we are developing the capacity to do the required transcoecing for taking PPC voip calls on gsm codec and delivering traffic to all destination on the other codecs but this will take time and it is likely to be some months before a true product is ready.
When we have a first rough version I will be looking for some test customers who we will give $20 per month of free calls to so they can assist us in evaluating the service. We would expect to offer a commercial service with most European fixed lines and USA to be around 2c us per minute. Mobiles will vary but this will be competively priced and I hope it will be the first real product to market for the universal offering VOIP that makes any sense.
Watch this space
Regards
Charlie

I used skype on orange gprs not 3g.
it almost worked.
conversation broke up a little but if you speak clearly and slowly its useable.
problem isn't speed but latency.

Skype on Orange gprs
I take your point but that is not really what I mean. On GPRS you have around 200kbps depending on how many other users are using the gprs data strems from the BTS you are connected to. I have used Skype on GPRS many times and sometimes it works and sometimes not.
In fact when i signed up to the Nokia 3g data phone i got 1gb per month of free data and used this all of the time. I used the BT modem in the phone to connect to my laptop and experimented with my own proprietary VOIP software running various codecs and using both 3g and GPRS i also ran ping plotter from my lap top to the VOIP switch that was running the calls.
The latency really was not the issue. I run sucessfull calls to my POP's in Nigeria and other african destinations over VOIP using Sat links with latency in the 700-800ms range. It is about the available through put. So for this reasoin a VOIP service using high rate codecs is not appropriate for devices like this for 2 reasons cost of BW and the total available bw in the GSM / 3g network.
Even though in theory you get a better quality call on g711 if the available bw is not sufficient to fully support it you will get a much better quality of call on the lower bw codecs.
The other problems with skype is if you originate the calls on a PPC then the user you are calling if it is skype to skype also needs to have a fast connection to support the g711 data stream as skype do not transcodec. Also in my experience the quality of the routes that skype purchase for the skype out service are very low quality so in all ways skype out is not realy useable for the PPC unless you are using a wifi connection. This is a great shame as it kind of defeats the object.
Just my own opinion. As they say opinions are like arse holes........every arse holes got one..... and i certainly have?? am??/
Regards
Charlie

Thanks for the insight Charlie - you clearly know a lot more about this than most of us.
Agree that GPRS VOIP is a never-never. Most MNO's put up 4 ports per BTS, and with more than 1 user in the cell you're so throttled that it breaks up awfully.
Very interesting to hear that the codec licenses are the limitation tho. I was wondering why some phreaker hadn't solved this already.
In countries where data cost per Mb is half of the voice cost per min, an 84kbps (even 196) stream becomes viable. Can we thus expect to find more software that will give us this - or is the viable market just too small at present?

Orange payg all you can eat gprs.

Sorry if you all already know this, but orange payg are offering unlimited gprs for only £1 per day, i've been using it for about 2 weeks and it's pretty good, it's a full data connection too so you can get emails or sync over the air etc. In my opinion the best part is that you can pick and choose when you want it.

yeah i'm on it too. The Orange Unlimited GPRS extra for £1 thing right?
People signing upwith Orange to get this extra,REMEMBER, the gprs extra runs out at midnight, regardless of what time you apply it!
Applying it at 23:00 is just plain stupid cos you'll have to re-apply the extra at 00:00 anyway.
I've got a contact stored on my XDA that is assigned to a speed dial key. When pressed, it automatically re-applies the extra.
To do the same, create a new contact & give it this phone number: 450p#p3p1p4p1p1
The call to 453 should take about 45 secs, after that your extra should be applied
THE GPRS DOES NOT INCLUDE DOWNLOADING OVER P2P PORTS!!! almost everything else works fine (ftp, http, https, msn messenger, e-mail-etc) but using p2p costs you money, regardless of whether the extra is applied or not.
anyone know of a PPC app that dials a contact at a scheduled time and disconnect after X seconds? would be real useful for this

does that mean i cud use skype on it?

jaceuk said:
does that mean i cud use skype on it?
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No, gprs is to slow for skype. My T-mobile gprs is about 40-50kbits/s. (flat-fee for 9,50 euro's a month )

sorry but what why can i use?
im looking into all thsi mobile net stuff but need to find the facts before i lay out money
if i try to get info in store they just try and sell,me stuff i dont need

Well its about the same speed as dial up, so you can surf the net (albeit slowly) and you can use MSN and collect email. its useful but its no replacement for wifi or 3G. I use it when I'm at work (i do a lot of waiting around)

Are you sure you are right ???? GPRS
Ive just picked up an orange sim and yes the £1.00 per day unlimited offer still stands but its for orange world , not other services . I thought from the original thread that this would give me GPRS access to the web ?
Can you confirm what service you have been getting with it ?
Im looking for a basic internet connection I dont mind slow but I do mind £2.35 and upwards per Meg .!!!
Any thoughts
Astro1

I can confirm (with 390 megs of GPRS used under my belt) that it works with any http address.
Haha, if the service worked with P2P, orange'd have been raped for bandwidth by now.

Cingular 8125 + Unlimited Data + Skyp

I read in a pamphlet that Cingular has that I cannot use any VoIP things with my unlimited data plan. What are they going to do with the unlimited data plan? Block ports that Skype uses?

Have you tried it yet?
If Cingular does start blocking ports then I'm sure skype will figure a workaround.

I've been able to get it to work with my data plan with cingular. not well though..don't know if the data rate is fast enough to handle skype...
even when on wifi and oc it doesn't run extreme great

@kyphur: I haven't tried it yet, I don't even have the phone or PDA package yet. I'm asking because I just wanted to know what to expect.
@guyver2077: Is your data plan unlimited? I didn't expect Skype to work well at all because the CPU is so low. I read up on that already though.

I have the MDA and overclocked it to 240 and tried Skype over WIFI and it worked pretty well. An occasional pause but not bad at all for being free.

I use skype on my wizard over wifi clocked at 252 and it works perfectly. Also about using VOIP on cingular's network was OK last week, which pamphlet did u read it on?
The Wireless Report
And heres the same article just reworded EngadgetMobile

The pamphlet was one I nabbed from a Cingular store. It was about the different data plans that they offered. When you open it all the way, you see a massive collection CYA text about limitations and stuff like that. I read that unlimited data plans cannot be used for VoIP, server like stuff (installing Apache on your Pocket PC), etc...
I plan on using it for VoIP anyway because I'll be paying $40 a month for the data plan alone. I just wanted to know if that Cingular has gone so far as actually blocking specific ports to prevent people from doing so.

No they haven't. Cuz as that article states, data is data and it would take a lot to block a voip service.
Also will VOIP run clear enough on edge? I'm waiting till i get a UMTS device to get the unlimited data plan.

If they state no VOIP and monitor the traffic on your plan and see VOIP traffic they have the option to cancel your data plan, but thats about all they can do.

Would this be possible, Vonage on Cingular 8125

Would it be possible to only use medianet unlimited with Vonage, and dump cingulars over priced voice plan. I mean, being that Vonage operates soely on your internet connection, why wouldn't it work on medianet or Cingulars PDA plan, vica versa. Pitcure it, you get unlimited calls to US and Canada, all the goodies like call waiting, three way calling and caller I-D, all for $29.95. That beats out Cingulars 450 daytime, 5000 night and weekends, for $39.95 any day.
So, is it possible? And if not, why?

ntornics said:
Would it be possible to only use medianet unlimited with Vonage, and dump cingulars over priced voice plan. I mean, being that Vonage operates soely on your internet connection, why wouldn't it work on medianet or Cingulars PDA plan, vica versa. Pitcure it, you get unlimited calls to US and Canada, all the goodies like call waiting, three way calling and caller I-D, all for $29.95. That beats out Cingulars 450 daytime, 5000 night and weekends, for $39.95 any day.
So, is it possible? And if not, why?
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I don't think that it would work because I believe Vonage is VoIP which is kinda like skype and the GPRS network isn't fast enough for that. Feel free to correct me (anyone?) if i'm wrong though.

But what about edge, wifi, or 3G. Wouldn't those be fast enough?

ntornics said:
But what about edge, wifi, or 3G. Wouldn't those be fast enough?
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edge is the same as GPRS, its the cellular data network. Edge I don't believe is fast enough. Wifi is fast enough, but you have to overclock your phone in order for it to actually work well...or at all. Not sure what 3G is, so I can't comment on that.

It's theoretically possible. There's a version of SJPhone that works with Vonage and runs on the WM5. All you need is a soft phone on your vonage acct and SJPhone should be able to connect over GPRS or WiFi.

Sleuth255 said:
It's theoretically possible. There's a version of SJPhone that works with Vonage and runs on the WM5. All you need is a soft phone on your vonage acct and SJPhone should be able to connect over GPRS or WiFi.
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Can you elaborate on this a little more. What exactly is soft phone?

A softphone costs $10/mo on your Vonage account and works with software on your PC. The Vonage interface device isn't required. Every time you connect to the internet with your PC, no matter where in the world this is, your softphone number is available. SJPhone is software that runs on WM5 that allows you to connect to your softphone number on Vonage in the same way.

Alright I have the software SJPhone, I found the beta version for WM5. And I am sure that even before I install it that there will be some configuration required for vonage.....

I have gone and google'd..... These look like the setup instructions....
http://www.engadget.com/2004/08/31/how-to-use-a-pocket-pc-pda-as-a-wifiphone/

Cingular is one step ahead of you... Kind of. There was an article about 2 weeks ago and cingular said they don't mind that people are using VOIP on their network. But Edge isn't fast enough. I have Skype on my device and running it via Edge is worthless, so get yourself a Hermes adn move to a 3g(umts) city and Voila, your golden!
I just got back from houston and they're selling the HTC TyTn for $1,099.99. You can get it on ebay for $779.99 with 29.99 shipping from Cali.

I have activated a vonage softphone but I am having trouble with the configuration. If anyone had some light to shed on the subject that would be great. The guide I am looking at looks like it is just about to turn 2 years old.

IT WORKS!!!!!!!! well I initialized a call I can't really test it though cuz the wife is sleeping and if I make the phone ring too much she'll get peeved. The above configuration is good, just don't bother with the proxy stuff just put the domain in..... i followed their screens just a little too well.

what connection u using it on?

The only issue with SJPhone I saw was, like skype, it would be "speakerphone only". I'm guessing GPRS would be fine for the connection if you use a low speed audio codec.

Well I lied i made 1 phone call and that was it it doesn't work now I don't know what i did

Is this any help?
SJLabs: Vonage on Pocket PC thread

Very helpful now I no longer recieve the "Nat/Firewall" Error. Thanks for the info. I will do more testing during the day tommorow and I will post my results. I am currently using a T-Mobile MDA with the new OEM firmware update.

I talked with the wife for 45 mins while using wifi, I used the headset supplied with the phone because I have not figured out how to incorporate my Moto H700 with it, but otherwise it was great. The edge at my house is only so-so, therefore I will say that using this with edge so far has been impossible. When I go to work tommorow I will let you know if it works better where I know there is 100% edge, and when I am not on the fringe of a network.

Theory into practice it would seem. Nicely done matrix849! I'd always wanted to try this but never really had the time to spare.

Seems as though the tytn would be the best way to really test if this would be absolutely possible. I mean with its 3G technology and all.
fone_fanatic said:
Cingular is one step ahead of you... Kind of. There was an article about 2 weeks ago and cingular said they don't mind that people are using VOIP on their network. But Edge isn't fast enough. I have Skype on my device and running it via Edge is worthless, so get yourself a Hermes adn move to a 3g(umts) city and Voila, your golden!
I just got back from houston and they're selling the HTC TyTn for $1,099.99. You can get it on ebay for $779.99 with 29.99 shipping from Cali.
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Any _Verizon_ fees for using skype to call a landline?

Hi,
So the Verizon marketing material makes it clear that you can make skype to skype calls for free. But the material is a bit unclear about calling to landlines. Is Verizon able to detect that I’m calling a landline using skype and then start using my air time minutes or something? Obviously I will have to pay skype to make the call but what I want to know is if Verizon some how charges as well.
Stated another way, I have a skype account that I use to make international calls, can I use this account on my phone the same way I would on my PC (i.e. I pay my DSL company a flat fee for internet at home and they don't charge me extra when I call a landline with skype, in the same way I have unlimited data with Verizon so I would hope they would not try to charge for this).
Thanks.

Yes, unless you're calling a Skype customer, it uses minutes.
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raptir said:
Yes, unless you're calling a Skype customer, it uses minutes.
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
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You can add a Google Voice number as one of your top 5 (if you have the plan) and have unlimited minutes.

I think it's a worthless app. The only time I would need it is out of the country where there's no CDMA service and I need to make a call over wifi. Fring for me... or reactivate my Saga WM six band phone.

ya im using skype through fring didn't get the same landlines in us will be carried by Verizon message so i don't think it is using minutes be nice if someone can confirm this.

I can confirm fring works over wifi and 3G to call US numbers, without verizon knowing anything about it.
I am on a family plan under my inlaws (only way I could keep my pricing similar to my SERO and get the incredible) so we share minutes, and my father inlaw uses a lot of minutes... since I only use 10 minutes or so a month anyway I was ok with joining his plan... but then I had to join a conference call for work, and I was not at my office phone, and I knew it would be all day, so I installed fring and used it over wifi. Worked well, a little delay, but it used my skype credits, and no verzion minutes.