Anybody had tested yet ?
We did with skype and it beeps a lot after a time. Any other solutions that work well and faster then skype ?
Nobody ?
I think in the UK the data rates are so high that this sort of functionality just isn't worth it
Working here in South Africa. Operators have priced data to allow us to use VOIP:
Call cost=Z per min
1Mb=Z/2 per min
VOIP uses 1Mb/min, but BOTH parties pay so MNO gets 2 x Z/2 = Z
Thus VOIP=Voice for them
More or less - numbers crudely correct, in truth they require some more traffic to close the gap, but then Z is often lower on packages; principle holds.
Having said that, Skype is truly problematic! I battle to fire it up half the time, and I can FORGET having it open and waiting for a call! Even latest beta is crap. I tried some other SIP-type proggies in the past (mainly required WiFi bandwidth), and will try again after a big project I'm on after this month.
VOIP products are not all equal
When using voip there are several key issues to consider.
1) Speed of the connection, is the link actually capable of delivering enough bandwidth for the selected codec.
2) Is the cost of the data required by the codec economically viable given the high cost of mobile data.
3) Is the quality of the voice offered by the codec sufficient to satify the customer.
The problem with most of the services being offered to PPC users is no one has bothered to pay a license fee for the development of a PPC soft client that uses g723, this costs $1 million USD for a full license. Otherewise you needto pay a per user cost. On PC windows XP 2k etc. microsoft bundles this codec licence. With skype on pc you use the microsoft licence. That is why Skype on PPC uses g711 @ 84kbps per second. So on most tariffis it is not viable for using on 3g.
Also the standard GSM codec is licence exempt and uses far less bw than g711 lless than 25%, however most voip SP do not have the capability to transcodec GSM to g711 or g723/g729. There fore I am not aware of any current SP that really supports this. I run a company called www.trans-call.com and we are in the early stages of developing a service that will do this. Our SSW supports sip, h323 with g723, g711,g729 and GSM codecs.
However the outbound routes we purchase are all g723/g729, we are developing the capacity to do the required transcoecing for taking PPC voip calls on gsm codec and delivering traffic to all destination on the other codecs but this will take time and it is likely to be some months before a true product is ready.
When we have a first rough version I will be looking for some test customers who we will give $20 per month of free calls to so they can assist us in evaluating the service. We would expect to offer a commercial service with most European fixed lines and USA to be around 2c us per minute. Mobiles will vary but this will be competively priced and I hope it will be the first real product to market for the universal offering VOIP that makes any sense.
Watch this space
Regards
Charlie
I used skype on orange gprs not 3g.
it almost worked.
conversation broke up a little but if you speak clearly and slowly its useable.
problem isn't speed but latency.
Skype on Orange gprs
I take your point but that is not really what I mean. On GPRS you have around 200kbps depending on how many other users are using the gprs data strems from the BTS you are connected to. I have used Skype on GPRS many times and sometimes it works and sometimes not.
In fact when i signed up to the Nokia 3g data phone i got 1gb per month of free data and used this all of the time. I used the BT modem in the phone to connect to my laptop and experimented with my own proprietary VOIP software running various codecs and using both 3g and GPRS i also ran ping plotter from my lap top to the VOIP switch that was running the calls.
The latency really was not the issue. I run sucessfull calls to my POP's in Nigeria and other african destinations over VOIP using Sat links with latency in the 700-800ms range. It is about the available through put. So for this reasoin a VOIP service using high rate codecs is not appropriate for devices like this for 2 reasons cost of BW and the total available bw in the GSM / 3g network.
Even though in theory you get a better quality call on g711 if the available bw is not sufficient to fully support it you will get a much better quality of call on the lower bw codecs.
The other problems with skype is if you originate the calls on a PPC then the user you are calling if it is skype to skype also needs to have a fast connection to support the g711 data stream as skype do not transcodec. Also in my experience the quality of the routes that skype purchase for the skype out service are very low quality so in all ways skype out is not realy useable for the PPC unless you are using a wifi connection. This is a great shame as it kind of defeats the object.
Just my own opinion. As they say opinions are like arse holes........every arse holes got one..... and i certainly have?? am??/
Regards
Charlie
Thanks for the insight Charlie - you clearly know a lot more about this than most of us.
Agree that GPRS VOIP is a never-never. Most MNO's put up 4 ports per BTS, and with more than 1 user in the cell you're so throttled that it breaks up awfully.
Very interesting to hear that the codec licenses are the limitation tho. I was wondering why some phreaker hadn't solved this already.
In countries where data cost per Mb is half of the voice cost per min, an 84kbps (even 196) stream becomes viable. Can we thus expect to find more software that will give us this - or is the viable market just too small at present?
Related
Hi,
I have just given a notice to end my contract with 3 UK. I am using an O2 XDA Exec as in my signature. I will really appreciate some help here!!
Since I have moved to my new place, I have not been able to get a broadband connection due to technical problems with the exchange upgrade. I tried 3 different companies with the same result - tech problem.
I cannot access the internet from home except the dialup which ofcourse is not uptospeed.
My question is What is the best data /voice plan out there which would allow me to access the internet through my Mobile at home (via bluetooth connection to my desktop/laptop)?
Any suggestions will be more than welcome.
Ciao
Tunndoc
T-Mobile FlexT with the Web & Walk Pro add-on would be your best option.
None of the other networks are currently very competitive at all.
And you would probably get something like a Vario II free which would be better to use as the modem since it supports HSDPA.
T- Mobile Web N Walk
Thanx for a speedy reply. This is what I found on the t-mobile website
"Web’n’walk fair use policy
Subject to coverage. Compatible handset required. Provides unlimited browsing on mobile handsets in the UK. Not applicable to connection via CSD. To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers a fair use policy applies. T-Mobile defines fair use as total UK data (both sent and received) of up to 1GB per month. T-Mobile may contact customers who exceed 1GB of data and ask them to reduce their usage. If data usage is not reduced, notice may be given, after which network protection controls may be applied. Not to be used for other activities (including but not limited to): modem access for computers, internet based video/audio streaming services, peer to peer file sharing, internet based video downloads, internet phone calls and instant messaging. If such use is detected, notice may be given after which network protection controls may be applied. The application of network protection controls will result in a reduced speed of transmission. "
As the use of the mobile as a modem is prohibited, this would mean that I still won't be able to get my Laptop/desktop hooked to the internet.
Any other ideas!!!!
Thanx in advance
Tunndoc
Edited: Sorry I found the laptop version, Thanx for ur help
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menuid=pp_webnwalk_laptop
Hi
T-Mobile also do a WebNWalk PROFESSIONAL for a couple of pounds extra per month. This removes many of the restriction including the modem useage. The only remaining significant restrictions are no VOIP and no MSN type instant messaging - not unreasonable, I suppose, since these are direct competition to their phone and SMS services.
When I signed up, I was told that I had to sign up for the regular WebNWalk service and then upgrade it to the pro version by phoning customer services. This is what I did and it all worked as planned.
Hope this helps.
Mark
I'm not sure, but i want to ask if is anyone experiencing some GPRS problems. I can connect to inet w/o probs, i can browse web...., but i cannot connect to IRC(using wmirc or pirc), ICQ or MSN(im+435) or i have troubles with ftp(resco I tried passive and active mode) Am I tho only one or something similar is happenig to others? I'm using HTC-Uni(latest WM6 build 17....)
IRC is blocked as far as i know, unless you use wnw+ or wnw-max. IM apps arent allowed just as much as VoIP over webnwalk.
i use wnw, on contract dont know if its wnw+. it worked a week ago?suddenly stopped. ****ing t-mobil.(maybe because they had to pay £200 for inconvenience)will call them
ive heard a few reports of this today, seems tmob might be cracking down on it??
I havent been able to use irc / stream music etc.... since getting my contract (about 3 weeks ago)
i cannot use ftp as well, just thinking if those bastards didnt start blocking all ports except for 21, 80, IMAP, SMTP, POP3 :-( if yes i'll chec my contract and will take some legal actions ( I love compensation for inconvinience)
Stuck
Hello everyone, ive been trying to follow these T-mobile UK GPRS problems, related post because im in the same boat. My msn messenger wont work and ive given up, (use webmessenger: works fine though). Yahoo messenger will not allow me to make pc 2 pc call any more but works for chatting.
However strange, i am begining to suspect T-mobile UK as they are obliged to do, are cracking down on VOIP / IRC protocols.
Also need to mention that skype and msn messenger works fine from my SPV M3100 so its does confuse me a bit.
Now im wondering should i delete this post A.S.A.P before some t-mobile network engineer see's it and gets to work ? Im only a student(as good as pensioner: financially) who lives on his own, so wNw MAX is mostly out of the way, might need to get a broadband connection
Don't delete the post, they probably wouldn't care what you say. (A t-mobile dude was telling me to flash a different rom to my xda, so it would be fully compatible with them!)
Unfortuneatly on t-mobile they do not allow IM services on their web 'n' walk internet I think you'd have to find a wifi point.
i read fair usage policy, its not alloved for w'n'w but for w'n'w plus is no mention of IM. i sent them a letter via their web, so i'm awaiting answer
phsnake said:
I'm not sure, but i want to ask if is anyone experiencing some GPRS problems. I can connect to inet w/o probs, i can browse web...., but i cannot connect to IRC(using wmirc or pirc), ICQ or MSN(im+435) or i have troubles with ftp(resco I tried passive and active mode) Am I tho only one or something similar is happenig to others? I'm using HTC-Uni(latest WM6 build 17....)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which WnW package are you on?
btw before people start complaning that they cant get on msn,etc check which WnW package you have
Wnw
WnW Plus
Wnw Max
then check the TnC to see if it allows you to use that service
Flext + web'n'walk plans
Subject to connection to Flext or U-Fix + web 'n' walk. Minimum term contract and credit check apply. Subject to coverage. Compatible handset required. Roaming charges apply. Not applicable to connection via CSD. *To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers a 1GB (of data both sent and received in the UK) per month fair use policy applies. If you exceed 1GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your future use. If you again exceed 1GB per month, we may tell you that we are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 1GB per month for a third time , we may tell you that we are going to apply further network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance. We do not permit use of this service to provide modem access for a computer or for peer to peer file sharing, internet phone calls or instant messaging. Roaming charges apply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flext + web'n'walk Plus plans
Subject to connection to Flext + web 'n' walk Plus. Minimum term contract and credit check apply. Compatible laptop and handset required. Not applicable to connection via CSD. Subject to coverage. To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair use policy of 3GB (of data sent and received in the UK) per month applies. If you exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your future use. If you again exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you that we are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 3GB per month for a third time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance. We do not permit use of this service for internet phone calls. Roaming charges apply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flext + web'n'walk Max plan
Subject to connection to selected Flext + web'n'walk Max price plans. Minimum term contract and credit check applies. Compatible laptop and handset required. Not applicable to connection via CSD. Subject to coverage. *To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair use policy of 10GB (of UK data both sent and received) per month applies. If you exceed 10GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your future use. If you again exceed 10GB per month, we may tell you that we are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 10GB per month for a third time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance. Roaming charges apply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so if your using skype, msn,etc on the basic WnW and they block that, no point in complaning as you wont have a leg to stand on
i'm on wnw+ so im pissed off. i sesnt them a mail on sund. i do not use skype as viop client only for IM. but i cannot use im+(icq...), mchat, msn messenger, irc. pinkies in callcenter are stupid, they told me that they dont provide supp for 3rd party apps (except the **** in tmo's rom - and U must have extrom installed-so no way to have icon for msn). they sent me back nice letter that they recieved my complain and i will get ans within 5working days. its friday 2:11am and still nothing. BTW IM was reason for wnw2wnw+ upgrade. they are ****ing bastards.
Go to connection settings and clear the checkbox beside "This network uses a proxy server to connect to the Internet"
I have moved to the USA and am looking to get my Vodafone Vario up and running again. I'm after some hints from some locals.
I'm well aware of the whole CDMA/GSM situation and have currently a US overpriced T-mobile PAYG SIM.
Are my only real options AT&T/T-mobile, or are there some other small players which piggyback on the large networks?
Ideally I want a plan with unlimited data and push email, but they all seem to demand 2-year contracts for large sums of money, and that doesn't even include a free phone.
I'm not used to this market, in the UK I would only consider signing a 2-year contract if they gave me a free Kaiser and it was a seriously good bundle. In the UK I got my Hermes free on a 1-year contract, and the year before I got an M500(magician) free on a 1-year contract. I'm just shocked that the largest market in the world seems to be such poor value.
Am I missing something?
Wow, didn't know all that. Guess we are just used to 2 yr deals here. Ha i wish i got a free Hermes!!
I went to an AT&T store last night and was even more dismayed.
They wanted:
$39.99 for their cheapest bundled minute package
+ $44.99 for unlimited data and 1500 SMSs
$36 Activation Fee for each new line.
That's what, $85 per month PLUS TAX!!!
Even at the current exchange rates that's awful compared to what I was on!
And for graciously letting me pay them to use their network with my own phone which they did not subsidise one cent of, they want a one year contract!
Also, check out these awful T&Cs:
Airtime and other measured usage are billed in full-minute increments. (Did I travel back in time and per second billing has not been invented yet?)
Unanswered outgoing calls of 30 seconds or longer incur airtime. (WTF!?)
Things you may not do with an "Unlimited" data connection:
WEB CAMERA POSTS OR BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS, TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; VOICE OVER IP;
UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF VIDEO CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES, TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, PLANS (UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR TETHERING USAGE) CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS, PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE
Their Mobile Email:
E-mail attachments can not be sent, downloaded, read, or forwarded on the mobile device. Only a paper clip icon appears indicating an attachment. You must view attachments from your PC.
What the hell use is that!
There must be a better solution out there, or is everyone here just used to rolling over and taking it?
With the economy getting worse I'm trying to tighten my belt as best as I can. Right now I'm paying a lot to talk on my HTC Wizard using T-Mobile. One idea that popped in my head was to just get unlimited internet access to my phone and then use Skype to talk all I want, given that I pay for Skypes service to make calls to landlines. Course another beauty in this is that I can cancel my home phone number as well.
Here's my questions.
#1 Are there plans to pay for only unlimited internet access, doesn't have to be T-Mobile it just needs to work with my Wizard.
#2 Can signal quality really cause a lot of trouble with Skype?
#3 Does Skype work flawless on my Wizard, and if not explain?
If someone already does this can they give further input about this?
(bit late to reply maybe)
I tried skype in my wizard with T-Mobile.
It works but the processor is a bit slow for skype.
Sometimes I even had to reset the phone...
So, it's not an ideal solution, but it does work.
(for me at least )
skype is free with unlim inet
apart from if you call to real phone numbers
rather then to other computers using skype
if you use skypeout which is what skype call it when you
call a normal phone from skype rather then a skype user
they charge you and to be able to do so at all you
need a skype out account
Isn't there alternatives to using Skype software? The Wizard is buggy is general.
I'm also curious about this for my HTC Diamond.
Here is my solution, it's not free but I think it's resonable! I am using Kaiser with software called AGEPhone mobile 2, and I have a 3G connection with 384k speed,which cost 9,8 euro/month, with a voipstunt account, every deposit like 10 euros, I get 120 days free call to the landline(Finland), and 1 cent/min. to call China from Finland. I am pretty satisfy with the sound quality.
Unlimited Talk time
Try the new data network: zero1mobile. Unlimited data for $70 / month.
http://www.zer01mobile.com/
I have recently discovered how to use my phone as a modem on my laptop, and use the dataplan. I have unlimited data usage. the question i'm asking is: would they do anything when they find out there's a lot of data being used on my behalf. Also i've looked through O2's t&c's and all it says is fair usage, no actual figure of how much data per month you are allowed. could someone just give me some insightful info.
Thanks,
Joel
Also would using a bluetooth connection maybe make me less inconspicuous as there is a maximum data transfer rate of 56 kilo BYTES using bluetooth, where as O2 has a maximum HSDPA speed of 1.8 mega BITS (around 180 kilo BYTES per second). So maybe staying away from a cable would be slightly beneficial?
from their side it should just show that it's your phone which request and recieve all the data your laptop request thats the nature of using it as a router/modem
what do you mean?
Whoa!!
I used my phone with the Internet Sharing for a couple of days just to check my email and do a little browsing (While I was away in Cornwall).
And I got charged even though i've got unlimited data plan.
According to the O2 they can charge me if I use the phone as a tethered modem. As to how they know the difference between the phones browser and a laptop using it's connection I don't know
blink182_joel said:
what do you mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He means they won't know a thing!
Basically, using laptop to access is the same as using the phone but plus convenient.
THJahar said:
Whoa!!
I used my phone with the Internet Sharing for a couple of days just to check my email and do a little browsing (While I was away in Cornwall).
And I got charged even though i've got unlimited data plan.
According to the O2 they can charge me if I use the phone as a tethered modem. As to how they know the difference between the phones browser and a laptop using it's connection I don't know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May be you could try changing UserAgent on you browser to match opera and see if that works.
I've recieved a warning.. kind of
It reads
O2: Due to your daily data usage being extremely high following our previous warning
Thats it!
I've had no other warnings to my knowledge.
I called to enquire what the meaning of the above message. The call centre op said it was to do with my data usage and Asked me if i was using my phone as a modem
I've been with o2 for many years, and have used my phone as a modem for the entire time
I don't fully believe they can tell what you're doing with your phone, surely if they knew the call centre op would have pointed this out.
But I do believe i have put myself above the radar by DLing the latest episode of Heroes on Tuesday night!! (I was stopping in a hotel and I was bored!)
ha ha brilliant. so... has anyone measured their download speed if so what's the highest you've achieved? i'm intrigued...
I was told the "unlimited" plan was subject to a fair usage policy which was around 300mb a month or so, up to 400 would not be unreasonable the chap said... but I have not even got near that yet... yet...
The only way they can tell your phone is being used as a modem is as a result of the high usage. There is nothing to say that you cannt use your phone as a modem and the only restriction is the unlimited data plan bolt-on's fair usage policy. The policy isn't a set figure from what I have been told, it's a determined level of data allowance based upon your tariff, minutes and texts and your usage on the contract. What I'm not sure of id whether the fair usage figure goes up as you use more minutes and texts. However, I think it is raised by how much your tariff and average monthly spend is.
All I can suggest is not using a phone as a modem other than in an emergency, such as in a power cut....which there are barely any of in the UK.
I work for o2...The official line is your not supposed to do it.
Fair usage policy is 230 MB. It has been set at an amount that a phone alone would never use in a month.
Problem with laptops and PC's is they consume much larger quantities of data, when browsing. The biggest culprit is Auto Windows Update, you can be unaware that this can run in the background downlaoding updates for programs.
If Microsoft releases a service pack for windows or office, that can easily be more than your whole monthly allowance in a matter of minutes.
Theoretically they can charge you £3 for every MB you go over...thus a windows service pack could cost you up £200 to £300.
In the UK they dont often do this, they send polite text messages instead. However do this abroad and they will charge you every time.
Dont worry I wont tell
berrrtie said:
But I do believe i have put myself above the radar by DLing the latest episode of Heroes on Tuesday night!! (I was stopping in a hotel and I was bored!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YOU MUPPET!
Seriously, torrents are huge hogs of bandwidth so it's no wonder that O2 latched onto you. 350MB seeded back to 1:1 is 700MB total. Even if you got it from newsgroups it would still kill your bandwidth allocation. I know it's not what you want to hear but READ your terms and conditions in future! It's made quite plain that you're not to use the phone tethered to a laptop.
I've been using my mobile internet quite heavily and my account panel says I'm hardly using anything (maybe 5MB per day if I'm lucky). 230MB/month sounds like a reasonable level and thank you for confirming it Mark. Everyone knew it was *around* 200MB but no-one seemed to know exactly how much.
Mark A Cilenti said:
I work for o2...The official line is your not supposed to do it.
Fair usage policy is 230 MB. It has been set at an amount that a phone alone would never use in a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would think that with todays phones (especially like the x1) they would up this... eg if I use Edge or HSDPA and I would like to download some of the RSS feeds i have and some of them have podcasts (Chinese for language learning) then I can use that allowance in a very very short time... all with just my phone... is the allowance a hang over from the wap type of phones...??
BBC had to stop iplayer going out over GPRS because of download quanitities.
o2 have another data bolt on called Web Max, and its £30 and I think the domestic UK limit on it is around 3GB, it was the for-runner to USB Mobile Broadband.
Data Bolt On Terms
* A maximum of one Data Bolt On can be added at any one time.
* The Web Bolt On allows you unlimited use of Telefónica O2 UK Limited's Edge/GPRS/ 3G networks (as applicable to your handset), for personal internet use via your mobile phone. All usage must be for your private, personal and non-commercial purposes. You may not use your SIM Card:
o in, or connected to, any other device including modems;
o to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content, enable Voice over Internet (Voip), P2P or file sharing; or
o in such a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers.
Source : o2.co.uk
I am on the web bolt-on and I have used VoIP and streaming of video and music over the HSDPA network of O2 and I have not seen them charging me in my monthly bill.
I guess they have a way to detect if the device is being used as a modem but the question is how?! Perhaps the only curlprit here is the excessive usage that flagged it up on the system but the same usage could be done using the X1i with a torrent client on the actual device, no?
No such thing has unlimited...
altho o2 still states unlimited, 200mb has also been mentioned on the website..
I guess it just depends how lucky your are..
mkouk said:
I am on the web bolt-on and I have used VoIP and streaming of video and music over the HSDPA network of O2 and I have not seen them charging me in my monthly bill.
I guess they have a way to detect if the device is being used as a modem but the question is how?! Perhaps the only curlprit here is the excessive usage that flagged it up on the system but the same usage could be done using the X1i with a torrent client on the actual device, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whilst the easiest way will be useage, they can also spot which ports you are using, so stuff like BitTorrent should be detectable.
on o2 uk it says you must not connect it to a laptop