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Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
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Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
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Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
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Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
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I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
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you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
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Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
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OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
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Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
Just saw this & thought it I would share........It actually gives me some hope!
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...ster-video-for-affected-devices-no-drivers-i/
It looks like I'll be keeping my Sprint Touch after all if they come through on their end.
I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?
Draiko said:
I hope that this means those missing drivers were included after all an just not activated... if not, we're not going to see more than a marginal improvement. Could we just pay Qualcomm or something for the drivers individually?
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From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.
Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.
Ya Boi D said:
From what Ive read though, HTC is saying that it had nothing to do with missing drivers.
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I know... which means that either the drivers were included all along or that we're not going to get the boost we're expecting
I'll believe it when I'm using it...
You know, I might actually email qualcomm and ask them if they'd offer those missing drivers to us for a price... Since the entire thing was a money issue and it will take months to write or reverse-engineer a custom driver, why not use the power of money?
Does anyone have an "in" at Qualcomm? *desperation*
Yeah, like other people, we were hoping the drivers would enable the ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in the devices which should theoretically boost performance all around the device, not just certain aspects.
These 'other drivers' that are supposedly getting released look more like a better cache system that for the OS level and no other improvements.
--James
markgamber said:
Because it doesn't. There's no reason the phone shouldn't be able to play video correctly *right now* and anyone who's played with the various video modes of tcpmp can tell you that. In any mode other than DirectDraw, it plays perfectly. Forget about "drivers". If they're needed for hardware acceleration, swell, but the real problem is shoddy implementation of the DirectDraw interface. If they fix that, they've fixed the problem. Not that I expect HTC to fix anything, at least without breaking something else. I'm surprised those douchebags can find a door to get out of the house in the morning.
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I just got my Touch Voque this week.. And running TCPMP I can play xvids no probs.. Whats the best fps to encode the vids too... I've done 15 & 25.. both seem pretty good.. but opting for 15fps to reduce work load as quality is more than accepable.. I'd say stunning
Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!
Draiko said:
Another good read... Qualcomm's MSM7500 sales pitch!
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Good find. Here is the article in it's entirety quoted from the actual page. All credits go to the original author.
Publication: Modem User News
Publication Date: 01-SEP-05
Delivery: Immediate Online Access
Author:
Company: QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies; QUALCOMM Inc.
Full Article:
QUALCOMM Incorporated (NASDAQ:QCOM) has begun sampling the dual-CPU MSM7500 (Convergence Platform single-chip solution, enabling the first generation of converged devices that combine popular consumer electronics with the advanced power of CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Revision A networks. QUALCOMM's MSM7500 chipset will transform the wireless device into the ultimate personal multimedia experience, enabling devices from high-end PDAs and Smartphones to cost-effective wireless computers to portable video players, music centers, gaming consoles and more. With the processing capacity to match the high data-speed capabilities of Rev. A networks, the MSM7500 chipset creates new markets for the world's most popular consumer devices --including an 8.0 megapixel digital camera, camcorder-like video recorder, VGA resolution gaming, support for major audio and video formats, plus a dedicated applications processor to support the BREW solution and third- party operating systems -- with an integrated single-chipset solution.
"The MSM7500 chipset brings the industry's best personal media experience to wireless, enabling faster, widespread adoption of the high data-rate services that operators and consumers want," said Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, president of QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies. "By addressing historical performance issues -- power, display, speed, form-factor, network support and multimedia functionality -- the integrated architecture of the MSM7500 chipset provides OEMs with a solution that does not require separate chips or processors to deliver the next evolution in high-end multimedia."
The MSM7500 chipset boasts a power-efficient design with a dual-CPU architecture that integrates an ARM11 applications processor and an ARM9 modem processor to deliver the processing power required to run on-demand multimedia content over high-speed Rev. A networks. The MSM7500 chipset will:
* Deliver high-end multimedia with the integrated Launchpad suite and BREW support
* Support high-resolution VGA displays and TV-out to turn wireless handsets into personal media players and leverage the viewing experience of television monitors
* Provide a high-end gaming experience with an embedded ATI 3D graphics engine that further improves the user experience with 3D user interfaces
* Expand the Smartphone market with support for Linux and other third-party operating systems
* Provide support for wireless peripherals such as WiFi, Bluetooth, QUALCOMM's FLO solution, as well as popular broadcast standards
The MSM7500 chipset supports QUALCOMM's Launchpad suite of advanced multimedia, connectivity, position location, user interface and removable storage functionality, and QUALCOMM's BREW solution, which enables the download and monetization of advanced applications and content, allowing operators and OEMs to differentiate their products and services and increase revenues. QUALCOMM's chipsets are also compatible with the Java runtime environment (J2ME) which can be built entirely on the chipset as an extension to the BREW client.
QUALCOMM Incorporated develops and delivers digital wireless communications products and services based on the company's CDMA digital technology. Headquartered in San Diego, Calif., QUALCOMM is included in the S&P 500 Index and is a 2005 FORTUNE 500 company traded on The Nasdaq Stock Market under the ticker symbol QCOM.
QUALCOMM Incorporated can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.qualcomm.com/
For more information, call 858/845-7571.
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Now wouldn't it be nice if our service providers actually provided us with all of those nice features?
the issue is that anything labeled as "supported" isn't something that the OEMs are forced to include. However, the ATi Imageon is an integrated component, it is present in every single MSM7500 and that is what puts both Qualcomm and HTC into hot class-action-lawsuit-flavored water. Computer Lemon Laws protect people from false advertising and most of them state that a device MUST function as advertised/promised at the time of purchase. Every single product spec sheet for an MSM7500 device states that the MSM7500 is inside. The MSM7500's specs include an ATi Imageon and unless specifically stated by HTC, the unit is sold with the assumption that all "EMBEDDED" and advertised features of it's included components are available at purchase. If advertised features are not enabled at the time of purchase, then that is false advertising which means we can sue HTC under most Lemon Laws in place today. If the HTC insider interview at wmexperts.com is true, HTC could possibly sue Qualcomm for trying to charge more for a the MSM7x00 chipset's built-in features.
The only reason why companies provide free updates is to keep from getting sued under state computer lemon laws.
March 10, still nothing.....
h311boy said:
March 10, still nothing.....
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Thanks sherlock.
where did the march 8th date come from anyways?
-mark
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was meant to be read March 2008 although it does seem like March 8th being that the Mogul update was released on the 10th. Wish somebody could modify it for the Vogue and get the GPS working... Hopefully HTC will release a lot more for the Vogue very soon!
I love my 8525 to death and I had thought it would fulfill just about any need I could possibly want in a cell phone (especially considering the impressive modding capability). Surprisingly, I discovered that it is lacking in one area: web browsing. This became more pronounced after I used the Xperia X1 for the first time.
Right now, the phones I'm considering are:
1) Xperia X1
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900
4) Toshiba TG01 (*drools*)
5) Let me cut it short: Basically any phone with 480x800 res or higher
So after mulling it over and doing an enormous amount of research, two particular points are sticking out in my mind: the importance of PPI (pixels per inch) and processors. To break it down:
1) I've been informed that screen clarity depends a lot on PPI and, basically, the more ppi you have, the better. Is this true?
2) There have been issues in the past regarding HTC and Qualcomm drivers. Is this still an issue in new phones?
Thank you to all.
Out of all those phones, the only one you'll one you can buy right now, and likely for quite some time is the X1, so that should make your decision much easier. And by the time those devices make it to the market, you'll likely be drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks.
Oh, and yes, Qualcom still sucks in all newer devices. Either use Core Player or just avoid movies altogether.
FYI: You clearly have an apetite for WVGA, just be aware, that many programs aren't compatible with that resolution. For example, the commerically available version of TomTom doesn't work.
Oh, I wish it made my decision easier, but as a traditionally patient guy, I'm all too willing to wait for the other phones. You also might be right about me drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks when those phones make it out, but I certainly hope not. I was completely happy with the 8525 in virtually all aspect, save for the web browsing experience, so if I could mitigate that, I might be able to hold the gadget beast inside of me.
It's also a shame about the Qualcomm thing. It wasn't just movies that I was actually concerned with, but general usage. Lack of drivers essentially made everything slower than it should be, doesn't it?
Lastly, from my usage of the Xperia X1, I realized the potential for problems concerning the screen. However, the only problem I encountered so far is with Java games. Everything else worked fine. I got Tomtom to work perfectly fine too (well, I got look fine. I'm still tweaking to get the GPS to actually function).
Well I say either go for the X1 or be patient until after the Touch Pro 2. I honestly feel that the TP2 will be an end of cycle device.
1. Hopefully WM7 will be making its debut maybe 2 to 3 Quarters later. (We have no idea what WM7 may require storage wise or even screen wise...capacitative?)
2. We are at the limit for the SDHC spec with 32GB cards not too far off, we will likely see devices carrying the SDXC spec next year.
I just have this feeling that unless you get a nicely priced carrier subsidized TP2, you will likely fell upset about having spent so much money if the TP2 isn't seemlessly upgradeable in the future. Besides, the TP2 is more of a software upgrade to current devices as it carries similar specs with the exception of a larger screen.
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cosidering that you have a "buissness oriented device" and assuming you want to keep on that "line", I´ll erase from the list:
1) Xperia X1 ERRASED
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900 ERRASED
4) Toshiba TG01 ERRASED
So same as you, I am comming form an exelent device: UNI, also buissness oriented and the only one I can see on the sooner future is TP2
More similar to Hermes than to Universal
I have patience...
Meh, it doesn't really bother me whether the phone is 'business oriented' or not. Basically, when I purchase a phone, I look for three things:
1) Specs
2) Design (i.e. keyboard and frontal hard buttons)
3) OS
So long as all of the above fits my requirements, I'm good to go. Of course, if the device is meant as a successor to the TyTN, then it's all the better as it would make the transition easier (I suppose), but I don't think it's that important.
To be honest, I don't understand the difference between a 'business oriented' device and otherwise anyway. So long as the OS is Windows Mobile, it seems to be most anything a 'business oriented' device is capable of is also possible on another phone, save for the hardware specific things, such as GPS or FM radio, of course.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey smart, you got my points exactly. I think the TP2 generation of devices will be the last with the 528Mhz Qualcom processor, and maybe the last of devices before SDXC cards start being produced. As for "seamless upgrades", I just mean attaining a bug free upgrade path to WM7. You have a Hermes, so I am sure that you are familiar with the issues and sometimes persistant bugs that present themselves when upgrading to ROMs with newer OS's.
If you want a look at the future according the HTC (at least for 2009) look here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_2009_roadmap_leaks_in_pictures_seems_quite_promising-news-733.php
Sonus,
I see what you mean now and you're right. I did my fair share of upgrading/changing OSes on the Hermes and I also read a few threads concerning why some things simply can't work, so I am somewhat familiar with the importance of updated hardware. WM7, I believe, is supposed to be a milestone, so I think it's all the more important to keep a phone capable of upgrading to that.
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Nonetheless, thank you for the link. It's enjoyable to see HTC's plans for the future and where XDA may go as a result.
8525Smart said:
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update on the list (This time w/specs!):
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=3428
Another thanks, Sonus. From the looks of things, the Firestone is the next HTC phone to look out for, though I'm disappointed it's only clocked at 600Mhz instead of 1Ghz.
I want to know if there is some way to connect my touch Hd on TV
Sadly the HD does not include hardware support for TV-Out so it's not possible.
you're not the first to ask here's a couple of links
http://www.htcforums.com/touch-blackstone-f32/out-t959.html
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=491228
I found this also in the Raphael forum its interesting that some phones can do this perhaps its just a matter time
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=417616
it absolutely hasn't if it has htc would say that what is the benefit from hiding it
benefit from hiding it ?
Look the improvements we got from XDA for TMC support.
Some guys made it for free for HTC.
Result :
- no time spent for HTC,
- no support,
- no warranty,
- no incompatibility problems...
- Faster time to market
- ...
Lots of benefits for HTC.
People are buying telephones with a known set of features.
The only loss for HTC we be to sell phones with extra hardware that would cost with no use.
But most of the time (aka TMC) chips contain a lot of features, it's just a question of time validation and also getting the certification / approval.
What if people complain that their HD TV has been damaged because they plugged their HD ?
foulke said:
benefit from hiding it ?
Look the improvements we got from XDA for TMC support.
Some guys made it for free for HTC.
Result :
- no time spent for HTC,
- no support,
- no warranty,
- no incompatibility problems...
- Faster time to market
- ...
Lots of benefits for HTC.
People are buying telephones with a known set of features.
The only loss for HTC we be to sell phones with extra hardware that would cost with no use.
But most of the time (aka TMC) chips contain a lot of features, it's just a question of time validation and also getting the certification / approval.
What if people complain that their HD TV has been damaged because they plugged their HD ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good opinion may be you are right
Video out is something i would probably not use, but the topic is interesting. Read from the last post on page 11 of this thread (or read the whole thread)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=451634&page=11
As an aside, I'm not having a crack at anyone here, but I have seen this topic started a number of times and I know many claim that there is a hardware limitation with the arguement that if it could do it HTC would have advertised it. The blackstone really may not have this capability, but until someone cracks open their device to show the missing hardware then to claim this is simply just guessing (and as with most guesses, there is a chance you may be right). As foulke pointed out TMC support was not advertised or provided, but certainly was possible and now it appears there are other HTC devices out there that have the ability to have video out, but were not advertised as such (nor provided with the right software), yet it is apparently possible for these devices.
I've been reading up lately and I had a question about the Iconia that I haven't been able to find an answer for. Does the Acer Iconia, or Tegra 250 chipset in general, have any kind of hardware DRM? I've been reading up on the upcoming netflix app and it seems like it will only run on android devices that have some type of Hardware DRM incorperated. Does the Iconia have any type of DRM hardware? If not, does that mean we won't ever be able to use the Netflix App when it is made available?
From what we've heard, Netflix will only be working with Intel chipsets at the moment.
When I first read about this news, I was pissed. I even tried to rally a few people to write and protest Netflix because of this. It's a delicate thing. I want to support Netflix because of the great price and the great service, but I don't want them telling me what device I can and cannot use their service on.
It's funny because the CEO was just talking about not being a cable company...yet here they are talking about limiting their exposure on devices.
I really wish we could get a petition going or have everybody with an Android device send them an e-mail telling them we don't want this type of precedent set and that we won't accept it. I could live without Netflix...I just don't want to.
Until we scream and shout for what we want, we'll have to settle using PlayOn to get our Netflix and Hulu fix on your non-Intel tablet.
Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk
beebop483 said:
I've been reading up lately and I had a question about the Iconia that I haven't been able to find an answer for. Does the Acer Iconia, or Tegra 250 chipset in general, have any kind of hardware DRM? I've been reading up on the upcoming netflix app and it seems like it will only run on android devices that have some type of Hardware DRM incorperated. Does the Iconia have any type of DRM hardware? If not, does that mean we won't ever be able to use the Netflix App when it is made available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know Tegra 2 has no inherent DRM technologies, thus the Iconia A500 isn't blessed with any DRM hardware...HOWEVER, DRM can also be exclusively software based and I'm pretty sure Honeycomb has some keen DRM tech and will be getting updates with even more secure DRM. Of course, Netflix (or moreso, it's partners) may not settle for that so it's still up in the air.
At this point, and though I don't like being pessimistic about things - I'd advise against looking forward to an Official Netflix app on the Google Market (for now). If you want Netflix badly enough, I'd say wait for a tablet that is released with the app built in or wait until an App comes and see what the requirements are. The requirement will either be hardware, eg: requires snapdragon xxxx or Exynos based device or software, eg: requires Honeycomb 3.1.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions, I'm surprised people aren't making a bigger deal out of this. I like the idea of having a petition or email campaign to netflix, not to chastise or threaten them, but rather to express that as educated consumers we would like to know that our money is being spent wisely, and that products we buy today will not be outdated within weeks. I've taken the liberty of drafting a letter that can be sent to netflix. Feel free to copy the letter and send it, or post it somewhere on XDA so that we can try to collect signatures and support.
Dear Netflix,
First and foremost, we would like to take the time to express our gratitude towards your company, and the fantastic service that it provides. Even with the current state of the economy, most companies that provide media and entertainment to consumers charge outlandish fee's, provide poor support, and overall, do not seem concerned with offering customers a quality service at a reasonable price.
Netflix has been one of the very few exceptions to the status quo, and continues to offer great content at a great price, much to the dismay of large cable corporations, who seem content on increasing prices while not improving infrastructure, or providing more content to their customers. We also applaud your companies willingness to provide content on a large variety of devices. Netflix is one of the only companies that seems to actually want to provide an excellent affordable service that users can enjoy on their own terms, on whatever hardware they prefer.
It is because of this, that we would like to reach out to Netflix and open a dialogue concerning the future of the company, and it's plans for Android implementation.
A large concern among the public right now is whether or not Netflix plans to release its Android application in a state that will only allow it to run on devices that contain integrated hardware DRM. As you may already know, a large amount of tablet PC's are being released into the market right now, the majority of which are running on the Nvidia Tegra 250 chipset, which has no native hardware DRM. This puts consumers in a difficult position, on the one hand these devices are very powerful, and offer a good user experience for the price. On the other hand, consumers are unsure about the future of these devices. There have been rumors that new versions of the Honeycomb operating system will contain software DRM, but that still leaves consumers with a lingering question. Do we spend five hundred dollars on hardware that may not be compatible with Netflix, or do we wait indefinitely to see if the devices will be able to utilize Netflix services?
We realize that Netflix is involved in a very competitive business, and for obvious reasons, it is in the companies best interest to not explain it's entire game plan to the world. On the other hand, as consumers, we like to know that we are making wise purchases that will meet the expectations we have.
We are requesting that Netflix reveals more information about it's future plans for supporting the Android operating system. More specifically, we would like to know if the Netflix Android application will work on devices that only have hardware DRM, or if the company has any plans to support software DRM integrated into future releases of the Android operating system.
Any information you could provide on this subject would be of great help to the Android community, as well as consumers who value the service that Netflix provides. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this request, and we hope you will consider releasing information that will clarify the future DRM requirements for the Android Netflix Application.
Thank you.
Makes no difference unless Acer were to pay to have the A500 as a device to work on Netflix servers (assuming the chipset qualifies). LG Revolution is the only device so far.
I wonder if Google will spare a very small fraction of their billions to give blanket approval for Android devices that have the approved chipsets? Nah.
I'm pretty sure the tab's HDMI supports HDCP. For what that is worth.
Having Trouble with USB ports and speakers
Hi, y'all,
I have been around computers software and hardware wise for years. I am new to the Acer a500 Iconia Tab world. But I can not get my acer to acknowledge my computer to root or to upload and now my speakers are gone. Is there someone who can help me on these issues? I think the problems are hardware related. I tried searching the internet but no luck. I hope y'all have a good one.