Related
Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
Check it out:
HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers
Is this real? I know it is only a software/driver fix, but it is better than not...
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Dishe said:
rumors, rumors and more rumors.
There are countless rumors for and against this claim. No one here knows for sure.
It looks to me like this thread will be yet another source of baseless rumors...
EDIT: Ah, that was supposed to be a link. Perhaps post the correct link to the article you are referring to, and we can discuss that. Right now, the link is http://HTC Says Software Fix is Coming For Lousy Video Drivers, which is obviously not a proper URL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fixed... Here is the meat:
Some of our top engineers have investigated video performance on our devices and have discovered a fix that they claim will dramatically improve performance for common on-screen tasks like scrolling and the like. Their fix would help most of our recent touch-screen products including the Touch family of devices and TYTN II / Tilt, Mogul / XV6900. The update is in testing and we hope to release it soon. However this fix is not a new video driver to utilize hardware acceleration; it is a software optimization. Video drivers are a much more complicated issue that involves companies and engineers beyond HTC alone. We do not want to lead anyone to believe they should expect these. To explain why we are not releasing video acceleration instead of the optimization I offer you our official statement... "HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time. HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products. To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function. In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
I was at this conference. Take a look at what is inside the Mogul, Vogue, etc (aka Convergennce platform) chipset: (The second half talks about the graphics capabilities)
http://brew.qualcomm.com/brew_bnry/pdf/events/brew_2005/t202_ligon_qualcomm.pdf
It is difficult to be angy at HTC, as just about every HW vendor does this: The retail channels and the manufacturers want product diversity, but Qualcomm can't design all that many chips (a full chip design is expenive), nor can they build a wide diversity of fab plants so they just disable parts or leave out drivers.
The question that no one can answer due to NDA's is who exactly is holding them back? I.e. it may be that Qualcomm didn't license the accelerator for this part from ATI or that HTC didn't license the rights to from Qualcomm.
Either way, a gdi/direct draw driver for the basics is not a massive undertaking. We aren't asking for DirectX 10 suport.
awandkk said:
To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing.... when I looked at what specs were available to me when I bought my Mogul, they looked better than my Wing. I expected better video performance than a 2 year old phone. What they said sounds like back peddling.
Sounds to me like all they are going to do is a quick software optimization which they will call a video fix, when in reality, it has nothing to do with the video hardware inside the device.
They are just releasing this and calling it a "video fix" to get all the people like us who want full functionality to shut the .... up about it.
We has given up?
cstyle226 said:
We has given up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely. One of those "believe it when you see it".
that pdf is such a teaser so my phone is as powerful as ps2 and i cant use it thats just messed up and you know all the hardware their cause its integrated.This sucks cause i never play games cause they always play horrible. htc is so responsible for the iphone gui blowing away any other phones.
Hello all, Windows Mobile 7 is announced to be available this year. It seems that it will be a lot more "finger friendly". The Touch HD would fit it very well.
In fact, I'm currently a Kaiser owner, and I planned to buy a Touch HD but I'm a bit disapointed (as always with HTC !!!) about its graphical performances.
Touch HD owners still need to convert video files for the Touch HD to read them at a good speed ... A shame !!!! I had an Axim x50v 4 years ago which was able to read any VGA DivX without any convertion and it was really fast, no lags.
So I can deal with the bad video performances (I already do with my Kaiser ...) but I need a major change in the general usage of the device compared to my Kaiser.
That's why I would be glad to see Windows Mobile 7 announced for the Touch HD, it may be the thing which would decide me to buy a Touch HD.
Does anyone know if HTC plan to upgrade the Touch HD with Windows Mobile 7 when it will be available ?
Thanks !
Windows 7?
Where? I thought was delayed for 2010 and that they will release soon windows 6.5... Did I miss something
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
EDIT : New news -> you're right, wm 6.5 announced to come before 7 ... 7 delayed for 2010 ...
dizzy33 said:
In fact Windows Mobile 8 was delayed for 2010 (and maybe later !). What I read so far is that Windows Mobile 7 should be available in the middle of 2009.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you read is incorrect. WM7 is for 2010, Q4 of 2009 at the EARLIEST. and to your original question. WM7 may require a different set of hardware to be completely finger friendly, ie no more resistive touch screen. but that's not to say people here can't hack it and port it to a legacy product (ie. touch HD) by the time WM7 comes out
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Hm, i think the 6.5 will be published in Spring/Summer 09, so it could be possible.
Greets
John
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
kerni said:
i think htc will offer a update cause t-mobile will release the HD with android so they have to do sth for satisfy the customers with win mobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did u see this.
And sorry to take the air out your balloon
Turb0wned said:
Where did u see this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fact:
He totaly made that up, there have been some renderings of what the G2 MAY look like and many people took it upon themselves to photoshop The Beast running the Android OS. Don't get your hopes up.
(My) Sepculation:
You'll probably see the G1 come out with 5 more colors, and 10 more OTAs before you ever find out what a G2 looks like.
Sources:
http://twitter.com/htc/statuses/948774282
Not to mention that HTC specifically said that they did not manufacture the Black Stone with a radio module supporting the US 3G frequencies. So I doubt T-Mobile would Market any device going foward as running on G2/Edge
I hope you find this helpful (And sorry to take the air out your balloon)
dizzy33 said:
I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm. Camera tracking applications kill the battery _very_ quickly and obviously don't work in bad light conditions or against blank surfaces with no pattern.
The HD has a g-sensor anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue.
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
dizzy33 said:
About the date for WM 7, take a look at my EDIT section in my previous post ...
I've already noticed it changed, but thanks anyway ...
About the hardware, I'm not sure it may need a different hardware because it is said that Microsoft developped an application which use the camera as a G-Sensor ... So they may do their best for this O.S. to be compatible with old style hardware ...
So now the question is : will HTC offer a WM 6.5 upgrade for the Touch HD ... Not sure cause it may be there too late ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the time stamp sais your last edit was after my post. but regarding the hardware difference: microsoft never specifies the HW requirement to end customers because we don't get to purchase the OS. they do specify to the manufactures of the phones. it's the same reason why your PC hardware requirement changes for Windows 2000 and Windows Vista. I'm sure you can some what run Vista on a machine built for Win 2K, but your experience will be limited. So I was just saying that some hackers here can port the WM7 to Touch HD, even though Touch HD is not designated to run WM7.
Requirement wise, I am _speculating_ that it will need a better CPU/graphics chip, amongst other things. the current Qualcomm chip 's graphic capability just plain sucks, the CPU power also isn't the best. Horse power by horsepower, a Qualcomm 500 MHz is much slower than a Marvel/Intel PXA 500 Mhz. I believe WM7 will have more graphics requirement: here's my logic:
- Up till WM6.1 (possibly 6.5), the max resolution supported is 800x480 (which is ok), but he color depth is only 65000, which is low. Iphone supports 262000, i'm sure MS will be going after at least that.
- ever since phones/PDA moved form QVGA to VGA and WVGA, the graphics suffered, and understandbly so. though not microsoft's fault directly. people started saying "my WM phone/PDA is slow" and put the blame on MS. So MS will be clearing their name and restricting manufactures from putting their OS on a non-suitable device
so the above two points just to show you in the graphics department there may be a HW requirement. can you run it on a phone that doesn't fit the requirement? suuuuure, just that the experience won't be as good.
and finally, the news yesterday confirmed my suspicious is that HTC just dumped Qualcomm (not 100% dump though) as the sole CPU/chip provider due to their performance. Given that a product stays in incubation (for prototyping QA, testing, beta, etc etc) for 6 to 8 month before it hits the market. I believe HTC is prototyping the new devices with WM6.5 and perhaps even WM7, and found the performance with Qualcomm chip lacking. hence hardware requirement.
Site your sources.
adsno_1 said:
i've also read on numerous websites that theres the chance that t-mobile may be running android on touch HD.
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
If you read my previous post you'll see an official announcement from HTC themselves supporting my comment.
The HTC will not see the light of day in the United States, In the US there are 2 GSM Carriers ATT and T-Mobile
ATT won't relesase because it directly competes (and probably breeches) their contract with Apple
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Site your sources before you make such claims sir.
adsno_1 said:
also the HD is definitly coming out on t-mobile in the next 2 months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That comment is a joke, where are you sources.
I guess there are a lot of Wishful thinkers on this thread.
fnordelus said:
I don't mean to be rude, but what part don't you understand that the the Touch HD has hardware limitation not allowing it to take advantage of US 3G frequencies
And, when was the last time you seen T-Mobile release a beefy smartphone, the smartest phone they have is the Wing, and that's a joke in terms of Harware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right, that's my bad!
I actually did forget that T-Mobile is outside of the US, please excuse my stroke of ignorance.
I feel extra stupid because I actually have a German-T-Mobile Branded MDA Pro that I had to replace the keyboard for (to a qwerty keybord)
Me <---- Fail!
Schooleydoo said:
What makes you think he is talking about the US market? There are other countries out there you know
I was told by around 5 people from T-Mob UK retentions that it was in the testing phase, and they could offer it to me around March. This could possibly have been conjecture to try and get me to stay, but if you look at the link below, you will see a trend.
As an aside, T-Mob UK have released all major "beefy" smartphones. - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/phones/pay-monthly/all/all/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aditionally, you're double right!
Becuase T-Mobile UK does have a history of releasing beefy smarthphones, I just got my ass handed to me.
When it comes to mobile devices (my passion) it SUCKS to be an American.
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?" or even worse "Is that an iPhone imitation?"
So, again, excuse my stroke of ignorance.
fnordelus said:
Everytime I wip out my BlackStone, or even my XDA iis I get some ****-head who says "is that an iPhone?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA oh man I get the same thing all the time!
The annoying thing is it's surprisingly hard to say "HTC Touch HD" properly coherantly without sounding weird due to the cacophony of hard syllables!
Something interesting to note about WiMo 6.5 and the Touch HD is in reference to Pocket Internet Explorer 6. Microsoft have stated that their new mobile browser won't be released for use on any device due to hardware limitations of current devices - but there HAS been a ROM released by a microsoft developer for the Touch HD ONLY that DOES include the new Pocket IE...
My theory is that 6.5 will be held by microsoft for use on higher spec future handsets only, but the Touch HD will be allowed a possibly semi-official update. (maybe in the guise of a ROM by a microsoft developer like PIE6)
Something else to bear in mind, the Hermes was in mid life cycle when WiMo6 was released and HTC duly released a free upgrade from the pre-existing version 5 so there's a possibility they might do something similar for the HD.
All speculation and hope of course...
Here are some images of what WM7 might look like. Check out the Word 2007 picture. It looks like it has a lot of menu options.
http://cybernetnews.com/2008/01/07/windows-mobile-7-images-leaked/
I love my 8525 to death and I had thought it would fulfill just about any need I could possibly want in a cell phone (especially considering the impressive modding capability). Surprisingly, I discovered that it is lacking in one area: web browsing. This became more pronounced after I used the Xperia X1 for the first time.
Right now, the phones I'm considering are:
1) Xperia X1
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900
4) Toshiba TG01 (*drools*)
5) Let me cut it short: Basically any phone with 480x800 res or higher
So after mulling it over and doing an enormous amount of research, two particular points are sticking out in my mind: the importance of PPI (pixels per inch) and processors. To break it down:
1) I've been informed that screen clarity depends a lot on PPI and, basically, the more ppi you have, the better. Is this true?
2) There have been issues in the past regarding HTC and Qualcomm drivers. Is this still an issue in new phones?
Thank you to all.
Out of all those phones, the only one you'll one you can buy right now, and likely for quite some time is the X1, so that should make your decision much easier. And by the time those devices make it to the market, you'll likely be drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks.
Oh, and yes, Qualcom still sucks in all newer devices. Either use Core Player or just avoid movies altogether.
FYI: You clearly have an apetite for WVGA, just be aware, that many programs aren't compatible with that resolution. For example, the commerically available version of TomTom doesn't work.
Oh, I wish it made my decision easier, but as a traditionally patient guy, I'm all too willing to wait for the other phones. You also might be right about me drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks when those phones make it out, but I certainly hope not. I was completely happy with the 8525 in virtually all aspect, save for the web browsing experience, so if I could mitigate that, I might be able to hold the gadget beast inside of me.
It's also a shame about the Qualcomm thing. It wasn't just movies that I was actually concerned with, but general usage. Lack of drivers essentially made everything slower than it should be, doesn't it?
Lastly, from my usage of the Xperia X1, I realized the potential for problems concerning the screen. However, the only problem I encountered so far is with Java games. Everything else worked fine. I got Tomtom to work perfectly fine too (well, I got look fine. I'm still tweaking to get the GPS to actually function).
Well I say either go for the X1 or be patient until after the Touch Pro 2. I honestly feel that the TP2 will be an end of cycle device.
1. Hopefully WM7 will be making its debut maybe 2 to 3 Quarters later. (We have no idea what WM7 may require storage wise or even screen wise...capacitative?)
2. We are at the limit for the SDHC spec with 32GB cards not too far off, we will likely see devices carrying the SDXC spec next year.
I just have this feeling that unless you get a nicely priced carrier subsidized TP2, you will likely fell upset about having spent so much money if the TP2 isn't seemlessly upgradeable in the future. Besides, the TP2 is more of a software upgrade to current devices as it carries similar specs with the exception of a larger screen.
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cosidering that you have a "buissness oriented device" and assuming you want to keep on that "line", I´ll erase from the list:
1) Xperia X1 ERRASED
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900 ERRASED
4) Toshiba TG01 ERRASED
So same as you, I am comming form an exelent device: UNI, also buissness oriented and the only one I can see on the sooner future is TP2
More similar to Hermes than to Universal
I have patience...
Meh, it doesn't really bother me whether the phone is 'business oriented' or not. Basically, when I purchase a phone, I look for three things:
1) Specs
2) Design (i.e. keyboard and frontal hard buttons)
3) OS
So long as all of the above fits my requirements, I'm good to go. Of course, if the device is meant as a successor to the TyTN, then it's all the better as it would make the transition easier (I suppose), but I don't think it's that important.
To be honest, I don't understand the difference between a 'business oriented' device and otherwise anyway. So long as the OS is Windows Mobile, it seems to be most anything a 'business oriented' device is capable of is also possible on another phone, save for the hardware specific things, such as GPS or FM radio, of course.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey smart, you got my points exactly. I think the TP2 generation of devices will be the last with the 528Mhz Qualcom processor, and maybe the last of devices before SDXC cards start being produced. As for "seamless upgrades", I just mean attaining a bug free upgrade path to WM7. You have a Hermes, so I am sure that you are familiar with the issues and sometimes persistant bugs that present themselves when upgrading to ROMs with newer OS's.
If you want a look at the future according the HTC (at least for 2009) look here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_2009_roadmap_leaks_in_pictures_seems_quite_promising-news-733.php
Sonus,
I see what you mean now and you're right. I did my fair share of upgrading/changing OSes on the Hermes and I also read a few threads concerning why some things simply can't work, so I am somewhat familiar with the importance of updated hardware. WM7, I believe, is supposed to be a milestone, so I think it's all the more important to keep a phone capable of upgrading to that.
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Nonetheless, thank you for the link. It's enjoyable to see HTC's plans for the future and where XDA may go as a result.
8525Smart said:
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update on the list (This time w/specs!):
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=3428
Another thanks, Sonus. From the looks of things, the Firestone is the next HTC phone to look out for, though I'm disappointed it's only clocked at 600Mhz instead of 1Ghz.
HTC has opened worldwide customer survey for satisfaction with their customer service. I think people (you) should send them your opinion about their services.
Mostly what came to my mind is that they still havent released proper 3D drivers. So what people (you) should do is to send them some opinions about that.
Probably this doesnt suddenly make them release or make drivers but should make them know that people wants those drivers.
Direct URL to survey: http://survey.htc.com/WorldWide/
Use 5min and fill that, ofcourse if you are satisfied then put it there, i dont want to people put only negative, although I cannot think much positive about Touch HD customer service.
HD is/was their flagship, and it doesnt even get winmo 6.5 update or have proper drivers.
This is only for customer service, this would only apply if you'd had a specific problem, they're not interested in our overall opinion of them as a manufacturer etc.
While the service may not be relevant to the graphics driver thing - there is one very important issue EVERYONE should complain about:
Various repair facilities for HTC devices in various countries now refuse to repair device with HARD-SPL installed. They claim changing the software has damaged the motherboard and it needs to be replaced, and they will try charging you for it. Yes, they will tell you this even if it is your screen that is split in half. In other words - complete nonsense. After some lengthy conversations with various people at one of these facilities I learned that HTC sent out a memo to their repairers that devices that are not running stock ROMs software are no longer eligable for fixes of hardware.
Now, of course, it is their good right not to repair issues that were caused by yourself, however, HardSPL does not cause my screen to break in two. They are completely non-related. Also, if their terms said software changes would void hardware warranty (how absurd that may be), that would maybe go somewhere - BUT, they do not state this, at least not the ones that came with my devices (and I have quite a bunch of them).
Is there no end to how low and crappy HTC can go?
(I am seriously considering taking them to court over this)
^yeh, don't think they can get much lower! I'll be serously concidering the switch to Toshiba with Snapdragon...
Even though this was customer service survey, I've still complained about my biggest gripe - Graphics Drivers! It's been a couple of years and they've not released any drivers. That's criminal! I think everyone at XDA-developers should get their voices heard (again!). For me this issue started with Kaiser and now with Blackstone. Sooo Annoyed!!
Yes - it's crazy esp. if the chipsets on the Touch HD etc support it. CorePlayer cannot support the device properly because of it. And don't get me started on the Audio Stutters debacle. Whilst their customer service do reply, their are probably poorly paid back office staff. The problem is with product implementation, product testing - and evidently, repair!
I am hoping that HP release a new phone with a great screen, decent graphics etc. I miss my Ipaq PDA and it not giving me any grief!