Database Users

An Open Letter to Android via Google and Forwarded to Samsung

Hi XDA-Samsung Users,
I've been a member of XDA since Jan last year. I went from owning a Nexus One to a Samsung Galaxy S i9000. The reason for the change was for the better specs and superior hardware of the Samsung Galaxy.
The phone is an incredible piece of machinery, but is severely hampered by the modifications that Samsung makes to the Android OS. I admit that the codec support within TouchWiz is impressive, but too much of the core framework of the phone is inefficient and sluggish.
Even using the latest release of unofficial firmware Samsung, Android 2.2.1 (JPY), there is still the occasional hang and the missing RAM (which is there somewhere, but not for user applications).
Samsung is mostly to blame, but there is also a quality control element that Google should be responsible for.
I have prepared an open letter that I sent to Android via Google Press and then forwarded on to Samsung for their reference. This were all through publicly available channels so will have to filter through customer service centers and the like.
I'm not expecting much, Google appears to use Amazon's customer service approach, "No customer service is good customer service".
But would like to post it here to hopefully get it out into the wilderness.
I tweeted it here http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/27528781828722688
and would appreciate if you agreed with the content to retweet it. Hopefully it should give it a bit more weight.
It would be interesting to get the communities feedback on how mature they believe Android is.
Do they need to keep trying to make everyone happy or can they start to use the weight of their OS to get manufacturers to align the user experience?
Dear Android Team,
I am writing this letter to air my frustrations and to hopefully get some peace of mind that your strategy for Android will resolve some of the main issues plaguing the platform.
I have now been with Android for over 12 months. I used to be an iPhone user, but couldn’t stand the walled garden that Apple put me in. I couldn’t download directly to the phone, replace the messaging app or sync wirelessly. I went to Android because I wanted the freedom to use my phone more as a desktop replacement than as a phone/mp3 player.
When I joined the Android family (January 2010), I started with the Google Nexus One. I was so keen to get into the Android community I didn’t even wait for it to be on sale in Australia to get it, thus I hit eBay and bought it outright.
I was very pleased with the platform but could still see a few rough edges around the Operating System. It had the usability I was looking for but was lacking the polish I had grown use to with Apple. There was good news on the horizon with an Éclair update that would give the already beautiful phone a nudge in the right direction. As I was in Australia and the phone wasn’t here yet, I had to push the update through myself, after seeing how easy this was and getting the feeling of being a little phone hacker, I was hooked, I started preaching Android to the masses. Australia is still building momentum for the platform and it’s taking some time. Most of the major carriers stock between 4-6 Android devices, most of which are low end or outdated in the overseas markets.
I follow all the key players in the industry through Twitter and have a majority of Google News trackers picking up articles with android related words. I have also now converted my Wife to Android (HTC Desire Z, also not available in Aus) and I picked up the Samsung Galaxy S and gave my sister the Nexus One. The problem I face now is that I’ve run out of money and can’t go out and buy a new Android phone just to be up to date with the latest Android OS (Gingerbread), this would also be the case for most consumers. The Nexus S is so similar to my current hardware that I must be able to leverage the extra performance from the update.
But alas, we reach the major problem with the platform. Fragmentation. I’m not referring to the Fragmentation of the various app stores and apps available based on different OS versions but more to the Fragmentation of the OS based on the custom skins and manufacturer update cycles. The open platform that is closed at 2 levels, Manufactures and Carriers. I will continue to buy my phones outright as it gives me the freedom and flexibility to upgrade my plans as better ones become available. This always guarantees that I’m free from the bloatware that is preloaded on most Carrier bought phones and free from 1 of the barriers to the true AOSP experience. The next barrier is one that is running rampant in the interwebs rumour mill at the moment and that’s manufacturer updates and in my case I refer to Samsung.
Samsung Galaxy S phones come loaded with Android 2.1, most of them internationally are running Android 2.2 and just recently as select group of the devices is getting Android 2.2.1. This is now a month after Android 2.3 was released. For Samsung I would consider this largely negligent, considering they had the opportunity to work with Google to build a Google Experience Phone (Nexus S). The specs of this phone are so similar to the Galaxy range that a port shouldn’t be too difficult. I understand that there are a lot of constraints and dependencies in the development cycle that could cause delays as well as manufacturers agendas (mostly in unit sales). It is great that Samsung have sold so many devices globally but at a cost of the user experience as well as potential damages to long term retention.
I understand the Open nature of Android and the push to encourage manufacturers to put there own spin on the platform, but Android is getting bigger and more mature, it doesn’t need to be High school girl bending to the whims and peer pressure from the carriers and manufacturers.
There are a team of Devs in Germany who are working to port CyanogenMod 7 (Gingerbread) to Galaxy S i9000, but these guys have now spent over four months just trying to get through Samsungs drivers. The team didn’t start just to customise the phone but to actually make the phone work properly, I of course refer to the RFS lag issue and Samsungs modification to the framework that slowed it down. The goal of the team is to maximise the potential of the hardware and operating system.
It would be great to see some muscle from Google thrown into the mix, there doesn’t need to be requirements dictated, but maybe ethics encouraged.
There seems to be a few options here:
- Encourage device manufacturers to share their drivers, if it is too sensitive to share at least work with the community to help them do it themselves.
- Start to break down the way the platform is customised so that way the manufactures (Samsung/HTC/Motorola) skin the platform can sit a layer above the core code, thus be a quick implementation/customisation to get their skins working.
- Get each manufacturer to offer the AOSP experience to advanced users. This can be done through an agreement between the user and manufacture that states this will void the warranty and have its own terms and conditions.
- This last one is a long stretch, but how about taking all the manufacturers drivers into a repository, the way Windows do updates. When a new Android version is developed the drivers can be updated or incorporated and be packaged out through the Android SDK.
I may be completely off the mark. I’m not a developer and couldn’t pretend to know what effort is involved at any stage of the process, from building Android to rolling it out into the latest and greatest phone. The one thing I am though is an End User, a person that wants my phone to do more, to get close to being a desktop replacement.
Maybe I’m also being a bit idealistic.
I hope the Android platform continues to flourish and for it to become the Windows of the mobile era.
Sincerely,
Irwin Proud
E: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It's really an excellent summary. Consider there're even more black sheeps out there. For example Sony Ericcson which ones recently made a statement like Android is their favourite Smartphone OS and left Symbian in Nokias hands.
But we found also the good ones like HTC, which every Manufacturer should have HTC as its Paragon concerning Android Software Development.

Great write-up; I agree 100%

I agree with your post fully, and concur that the Windows Phone 7 model for OS updates is more efficient, and strikes a happy medium between iOS and Android's approach to upgrades. However it is also more restrictive in terms of handset hardware limitations
I suppose the idea is that customers should vote with their wallets and buy from companies with good software and firmware support. The problem with that is a majority of phone users (android or otherwise) are technically savvy enough to take such support into consideration when looking at the latest and greatest fancy phone in a store. We could all buy the Nexus One or Nexus S only, but this too is restrictive to the customer as other phones offer more/different features

my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.

What Google should do?
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please allow me to politely disagree. Google can do a lot about this and they have done this also. When I say they have done this - I am talking about not having Market application on Android OSes which come on non-phone hardware.
Google should put similar restrictions for loosley coupled skins, upgradable drivers. I had been giving this a lot of thought lately. I will sum up my thoughts with above letter as above:-
i) Device manufacturer skinning - Google should mandate that it should be just another APK within AOSP and users should be given a choice to turn it off.
ii) Device Drivers - Google should mandate there should be a better way of installing device drivers - similar to what we have in MS Windows (MS Windows is an excellent model of how hardware device should be handled - this lead to the exponential growth Windows is enjoying now).
iii) Android OS Update - If Google can achieve the above two, then the choice to upgrade the OS should be at user discretion. Of course, Google should mandate that there is OTA availble as an option. And obviously this OTA would be served by Google, not by device manufacturers. This would also free up time, effort and cash spent by device manufacturers in upgrading the OS.
So this is in the best of interest of everybody.
These restrictions if put in place, would free us all from this phenomena of running outdated OS.

Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.

Thank you so far for the feedback.
poundesville said:
my 2 cents worth:
I agree on your points - but I'd skip the first few paragraphs if I were the one who write the letter. Other than that, thank you for making the effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember most members of XDA would be a cut above the average user. The reason this letter was written the way it was, was to demonstrate that I am a typical end user. Although I would consider myself leaning slightly to the more advanced side I wrote the letter based on a very general experience of the platform, an experience a lot of consumers would go through.
Toss3 said:
What exactly are you hoping to achieve with this letter? Google has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that samsung don't want to update their phones. In these type of situations it's just better to vote with your wallet and buy another manufacturer's phone next time and let Samsung know why you don't want to use their phones in the future.
Writing letters like these is just a waste of time imho.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What am I trying to achieve with this letter?
I really don’t know, but it helps to just get the thoughts out there.
With approximately 300,000 activations daily, I don’t think Android sees the true reflection of how their platform is received.
When the Galaxy range of phones was released in the US, they would have been seen as the closest thing to an iPhone that non-AT&T customers could get. So sales and activations shouldn’t be seen as the indicator of clever consumers or consumers wanting an open platform, but of consumers who wanted an iPhone but for the various reasons didn’t want to go with AT&T.
Remember: The international Samsung Galaxy is the only Android phone I know of that looks more like an iPhone than any other phone.
What I would really like to see is, that annually google will release a major version of Android. So V1, V2, V3, etc…. the mobile manufacturers commit to any minor or incremental updates per major version. So if Google says they are releasing Android 2.4 then they are saying to the manufacturer that this version will also work on any phone that currently supports v2.1 to v2.3.
As more and more people move to smartphones and tablets, more and more will we see hackers, spammers, botnets and so on attempt to access our devices. If we can’t have the latest updates that close any open holes then our phones become a huge liability.
Pierreken said:
Not sure what ti say on this one. It's true that Samsung has failed on some levels, however I must say that this is the first phone that has allowed me to get to know so much about the internals of the Android OS.
Modifying kernels, ROM's, reading about different file-systems etc... it's not a thing for the common user but I expect the people on this forum to be interested in such things.
Ok, if Samsung had done it right, we may have discussed these things anyway but it would've drawn less attention as people would not be looking for solutions to their problems.
But of course we have to strive to quality for everyone and this letter may just open some people's eyes at both Google and Samsung.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really sure if Samsung has failed as such, but have put too much focus on unit sales rather than quality control and great user experience. They started releasing different iterations and modifications to the same phone without considering that each minor tweak to the hardware would mean more resources to develop updates and maintain each device.
I also agree that without Samsung I would know very little about linux filesystems, kernel and custom roms, but shouldn't all of these be more to push the phone above it's limits and not to just get it working properly?
There's nothing wrong with knowing the advanced stuff, however it shouldn't be a necessity.

The problem ironically is that Android is open source. I agree wit the letter above, but I can;t see how you can stop manufacturers doing what they want.
Also the Drivers being proprietary isn't going to change and device manufacturers aren't going to suddenly start releasing their closed driver sources.
Agreed Google should stand up and restrict the Skins to a single APK that can be removed, this would stop all the associated problems with HTC and Samsung skinning too deep in to the OS that it becomes impossible to remove it. The problem with that is, then any manufacturers APK will be installable on any phone. Which is something we know they don't want.
We already know Androids biggest downfall and so does Google. Fragmentation.
I believe once Google has the strong position they want and users demand Android when they buy a new phone, they will start to put their foot down and try to enforce standardisation across Manufacturers, but until they get to what they feel is that point, we're stuck.
Anyway much luck with the letter, I hope someone who matters get's to see it.
Logicalstep

netflex for android

Does anyone knows netflex works on Android? Because I have found an netflex.apk but I didn't log in because I don't have an account yet. If you guys want to try it I post a link to download netflex.apk. later when I get.off work.

no it doesn't.

Unfortunately netflix doesn't work for android just yet, most of us have tried all the apks out there that were pulled

dirkyd3rk said:
Unfortunately netflix doesn't work for android just yet, most of us have tried all the apks out there that were pulled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just wait until they official release netflex for.Android.

culua said:
Well I just wait until they official release netflex for.Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is, Netflix will be limited to phones with specific DRM protection. Here's a statement on the Netflix site: (link too - http://blog.netflix.com/2010/11/netflix-on-android.html)
"We regard Android as an exciting technology that drives a range of great devices that our members could use to instantly watch TV shows and movies from Netflix. We are eager to launch on these devices and are disappointed that we haven’t been able to do so already. The hurdle has been the lack of a generic and complete platform security and content protection mechanism available for Android. The same security issues that have led to piracy concerns on the Android platform have made it difficult for us to secure a common Digital Rights Management (DRM) system on these devices. Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy. Although we don’t have a common platform security mechanism and DRM, we are able to work with individual handset manufacturers to add content protection to their devices. Unfortunately, this is a much slower approach and leads to a fragmented experience on Android, in which some handsets will have access to Netflix and others won’t. This clearly is not the preferred solution, and we regret the confusion it might create for consumers. However, we believe that providing the service for some Android device owners is better than denying it to everyone."
So... that's new devices, unfortunately the EVO isn't one of the devices (sad face ) but maybe with a little fairy dust, magic, and developer power... you never know

What is netflex?
When your internet does workouts?

mattykinsx said:
What is netflex?
When your internet does workouts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.........lol.
via EVO.

Lets support Android developers!!

Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!

Agree with you lets unleash the beast off this tegra
sent from my Motorola XOOM

I want Square Enix on board. I've gotta play Chaos Rings, Final Fantasy 1,2 and 3 on my iPhone... Chaos Rings was a pretty neat mobile RPG.

i just purchased The History great battles medieval, which i have to say looks pretty ugly lol!! But still I dont mind spending the $6.00 bucks, i might like it later But the more support we actually show, the more developers will jump on board, and create better looking games for Tegra. I would love to play resident evil Zombies, need for Speed hot pursuit on our amazing Xoom devices, but its up to us to show that its worth making games for Android. So if we can spend $5.00 on things we don't need, surely we can spend the money to help benefit us as Xoom owners in the long run!!

MRCANNADY said:
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.

cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i disagree with your statement..regardless if i posted this or not, developers have already mentioned the fact that bootlegging is a problem with Android owners in general. We have to show developers that we are serious about supporting them. So it's good to show that we are committed to buying apps/games, and that developers will be rewarded for taking the time to develop for us. if we acknowledge the problem and speak about about it, hopefully that will get people on board if they want the better-quality games for Android!

Apple has alot of bootlegging. its just as easy to get a paid app for free on ios devices, as it is on android. I think apple devices have more apps because their is more people to use the product. And devs only have to make it for th Device iPhone Ipad ect. But with anroid you have a little harder time because everything has the android os on it samsung HTC motorola ect.

Ask an ios developer who also produces a like android app which generates more revenue and which gets stolen more.

This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.

I second the notion of supporting devs, but priacy isn't the primary problem. The biggest problem is market share and time on market. As both of those increase, they will no longer be an issue. This said, it wouldn't hurt to try and cut down priacy and maybe for a free app with a donation option somewhere, use it if its a good app. (Not always obviously, but sometimes is a great start.)
Sent from my Xoom the way it should be, rooted and with SD card.

Appealing to people's better nature is about the same as asking for donations. You aren't gonna get too far.
I think the best anti-piracy approach isn't DRM, but to convert it to a service. You can't pirate a MMOG. Not all software can be tailored to this, but most can, especially in this age of 24x7 connectivity. Software is heading in this direction already, with SaS and of course Da Klowd.
The tough cookie is how to extend the SaS model to media, viz movies and music, given their fundamentally "offline" nature of consumption.
Perhaps the way forward for the movie/music industry is to wrap them in software, eg make them interactive. Say, a piece of music can be played at varying tempo of your choosing, or it can be auto-remixed using templates, or it can be sweetened depending on your mood, etc.
Interactive movie is a tougher row to hoe, since movie watching is mainly a linear experience. But once animation gets to the point of achieving photo-realism, then a movie can conceivably be constructed like a game.
A major weakness of games thus far is lack of pathos. It's hard to be scared, or feel sad or joy, when playing a computer game, as opposed to watching a good movie. Perhaps a movie-game hybrid, with real human actors in intermixed sequences, will achieve this.

I disagree with you. The post by the OP is something like "encouragement" to give MORE SUPPORT to Android developer.
1. To talk more about Android apps to friends and family
2. To contact particular apps developer to create Honeycomb version of their Android apps
3. To contact iOS developers to port their product to Android Honeycomb
4. To create great detailed reviews of Android Honeycomb apps / games and spread the word
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Agree ...
The thing is for people who do not want to buy, they will not buy anyway.
This kind of thing is mentality. No matter what, they will always find away to pirate.
What I always do here at my work is to promote and specifically tell all my friends about Android apps and why they should not pirate them (some of them do pirating).
Come on, the price is not expensive! Really not expensive! I cannot believe people risking their phone by installing illegal version for something worth like $1 or $2.
However, I would love to have options to PERMANENTLY REMOVE / DELETE certain apps from my Google Checkout account!
Yes, not all apps are good ... Sometimes, I regret that I bought "that" app. And now, it is listed in my Google Checkout account
I could do some kind of "donation" by buying "any" good apps or ported apps from iOS, once a month for example I will do this to give support to Android devs. But yeah, I don't do this now because I hate to have long list in my Android Market purchased apps list.
KerryG said:
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thank you guys for understanding my post. I think Android wants Honeycomb to be more *centralized* like Apple..meaning that developers won't have to worry about making different versions of apps n games since most tabs running honeycomb will have the same base specs. We need let devs know that we are serious about supporting them...The Android family will or has already outgrown Apples fan base..so developers can make money from us but they need to know that most of us will buy their products. You never know who's reading these forums.

I have no idea whether there is a lot or a little piracy on android phones. Unfortunately there will always be a segment of any group willing to justify stealing products or information. Some groups worse than others. My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that. Now being in the video game industry I can attest to piracy especially on the pc. It gets to the point where its almost pointless to produce a variant of a console game on pc. If the drm is too restrictive you get blasted all over th internet. If you don't put a really restrictive drm on them every pc owner wil have bit torrented your game. Very frustrating.
In any case, that does not seem to be the case with android. I think the best formula is to provide a free version to test with limited functionality and sell a full version so the people who want all of the features can get them and support the app devs. Such as docs to go. So long as the programs stay relatively cheaper there not be much incentive pirate.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

>My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that.
In that most here have bought a $600-800 gadget, we can say that the demog for this forum have higher disposable income than the norm. Another thing we can say is that some number here are content producers or business owners, so there is more empathy for app devs. In short, those here aren't mainstream people.
I don't think the economics of software pricing will suddenly be lowered to the <$10 variety (as dominated by current phone apps) for the simple reason that software devs haven't decided to work for less money. IOW, TCO will be the same, because cost of production is still the same. The different thing is that the distribution channel now is more democratized, and there'll be more software as services than as packaged e-goods.
The issues of piracy are well-known; no need to rehash them here. Suffice it to say that it will be the same for tabs as it is for PCs.

Part of the problem with our Open Ecosystem is the crowd that it has attracted.
These people who love and kill for 'Open' have had access and use of FOSS(Free Open Source Software) for years - everything just about has been about FOSS.
It's difficult to retrain the mindset of these guys to pay for any software. I am not saying anyone is stealing, I am saying they don't see the current sets of software worthy of $0.99 - the cost is not the factor here, the mind set of FOSS is.
That being said the 'Free' in 'Free Open Source Software' does not mean free from $$$ - it just usually happens to be that way with most software used on an open Linux platform.
That being said, I have purchased every app that I have tried, liked, and a pay version has been available for - there are 10 or so that I don't even have installed any more because I just don't use them (programs designed for 1.5, 1.6, or 2.1 - that don't need to be used any more because features exist).
I get the 'Support Future Development' theory, and would gather to say that most of who do Pirate software really don't understand how a development cycle works, or how you make it profitable. I'd almost bet that 40% of the windows copies that hit this web page a day aren't legit. I'd also say that number is safe and low.
If you want a Free OS - take a bit of time and learn linux (Mint is as easy and Windows) - don't steal from that mean multi billion dollar corporation. Theft causes prices to rise, denying them the sale causes prices to fall and force them to become competitive.

On a side note...
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
I think the Android market will always be the step child but on the other hand it is filled with enthusiasts and real people that are approachable. It's more like a team (see this forum). I am very proud to be a member of this community and I am very tempted to switch to an Android phone when I next have the option for a new phone. I currently have a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and probably paid more on Cydia than on iTunes Also, I have paid for way more apps on the Xoom (and way more money was spent) than all my iPhone apps together!

funnycreature said:
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they do get a % of the price of the App, I think they receive 20% when the app is listed for the free app of the day - There are some other stipulations to that though. They get 70%? I believe when the app is purchased normally and Amazon keeps 30% finders fee so to speak, covers CC Processing and Amazon over head.

I would gladly buy the apps if i only could. Like someone already posted, apps are not exactly expensive when you consider the price we have paid for our Xooms.
Only problem is that for some reason Google doesn't offer paid apps in my country
I understand that Market Enabler also doesn't work for wifi only Xoom?
Does anyone know a way how i could buy apps?

Until things change, Android and business won't mix.

I have the 2012 Note 10.1 for personal use and have come to the unfortunate resolution that Android just isn't going to cut it from a business perspective. I am not putting the full blame on either the manufacturers or Android itself but without timely updates to a specific platform, I can not justify the use of these in a production environment. There is no way company can justify replacing their hardware yearly, or regularly, in order to get the latest features and security fixes that are provided in updates. Ignoring the additional features for the time being, from a security stand point there has to be a way to patch the devices in a timely manner. The additional features being provided drives the developers to migrate to the newer operating systems and leaving the old systems behind. A lot of times this creates a huge disadvantage in the fact you can run a particular application on one Android device but is unsupported on another.
Now to be fair. I am focusing on Android in this post but have tested Microsoft and iPad devices as well. All have certain advantages and disadvantages but the clear loser so far has been Android. If Android is going to survive in the business world, the manufacturers are going to have to step up and maintain their products actively for at least the full two years of their life expectancy.Android itself will have to hold the manufacturers accountable for keeping their devices maintained. From a personal use perspective, I think it is a great platform and love my Note 10.1. Would I like to see it get updated, I would love to see 4.4.2 on the device to allow me to run application I need that are no longer compatible with 4.1.2. However, I require vulnerability patches in a timely manner and that just isn't happening.

My last job had hired a full time developer to build a custom ROM and patch or update when needed for all the tablets being used on the floor. This approach worked for them because there was only one model in use across all departments.

You should blame Samsung for the late major update for GT-N80XX.
Android actively pushing regular update (minor & major).
Actually Samsung also pushing regular update, but it's only 1 major update (ICS to JB) & some minor/security updates.

If a business used the nexus tablets, they wouldn't have this problem.

theatomizer90 said:
If a business used the nexus tablets, they wouldn't have this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessarily true. Most current android version is 4.4.4 while my N7 LTE still sits at 4.4.3 with no update even spoken of. So if a business has data enabled tablets, they're still behind current version.

What OP posted doesn't really apply to large businesses. Between KNOX and other third party equivalents sensitive data is sandboxed and doesn't rely on the core B2C version of the OS to protect it. As much as Google may see Android's potential in the business environment no one I know in IT at a bunch of Fortune 1K companies is looking at mobile OS's (either Android or iOS) to replace desktop/laptops as "standard" issue. Tablet and smartphone apps have niche opportunities (commercial pilot manuals and logs, flight attendant passenger service tools, gate agent/hotel staff roaming terminals, sales people inventory access, remote staff automated forms, etc.) but migrating the entire enterprise to mobile architecture just doesn't make sense. So Android can't lose anything it never had and, outside Google's wishes, isn't seriously considered for. The lack of Chromebook adoption by the enterprise demonstrates their disinterest.

BarryH_GEG said:
What OP posted doesn't really apply to large businesses. Between KNOX and other third party equivalents sensitive data is sandboxed and doesn't rely on the core B2C version of the OS to protect it. As much as Google may see Android's potential in the business environment no one I know in IT at a bunch of Fortune 1K companies is looking at mobile OS's (either Android or iOS) to replace desktop/laptops as "standard" issue. Tablet and smartphone apps have niche opportunities (commercial pilot manuals and logs, flight attendant passenger service tools, gate agent/hotel staff roaming terminals, sales people inventory access, remote staff automated forms, etc.) but migrating the entire enterprise to mobile architecture just doesn't make sense. So Android can't lose anything it never had and, outside Google's wishes, isn't seriously considered for. The lack of Chromebook adoption by the enterprise demonstrates their disinterest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if I totally agree with the application only being a niche market. I work for a call center and find that the tablets are becoming an indispensable tool. We have people walking the floor with these devices and using them to keep track of various statistics as well as using them to report potential issues. The ability to pull up data about current client information to respond in an almost instant manner has shaped things drastically. Having a sandbox is really great for protecting certain information, such as email, etc.. but can not protect the device data in flux, such as web browser content. If the system is compromised and access to the file system is obtained then all the data previously obtained becomes available to the attacker. Some measure can be made such as requiring Citrix as your primary form of connectivity but you are only pushing the security back to another device. The focus of this article was to point out the shortcomings of the this tablet as it pertains to the lack of updates.
Don't get me wrong, I truly love Android and will continue to use it as a personal device. However, there is no way I can risk releasing these devices into a production environment without the proper support. And yes, I blame the manufacturer for release and forget, and I blame Android for not enforcing the manufactures to keep these update. It is crucial to both parties to work together and produce something that is not just desirable but maintained for a reasonable amount of time. If Android could come up with a way to provide updates to devices directly and bypass the manufacturer they would have an unbeatable platform.

Zeab said:
Not sure if I totally agree with the application only being a niche market. I work for a call center and find that the tablets are becoming an indispensable tool. We have people walking the floor with these devices and using them to keep track of various statistics as well as using them to report potential issues. The ability to pull up data about current client information to respond in an almost instant manner has shaped things drastically. Having a sandbox is really great for protecting certain information, such as email, etc.. but can not protect the device data in flux, such as web browser content. If the system is compromised and access to the file system is obtained then all the data previously obtained becomes available to the attacker. Some measure can be made such as requiring Citrix as your primary form of connectivity but you are only pushing the security back to another device. The focus of this article was to point out the shortcomings of the this tablet as it pertains to the lack of updates.
Don't get me wrong, I truly love Android and will continue to use it as a personal device. However, there is no way I can risk releasing these devices into a production environment without the proper support. And yes, I blame the manufacturer for release and forget, and I blame Android for not enforcing the manufactures to keep these update. It is crucial to both parties to work together and produce something that is not just desirable but maintained for a reasonable amount of time. If Android could come up with a way to provide updates to devices directly and bypass the manufacturer they would have an unbeatable platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anytime a serious security breach that can be used from without to effect changes on a device have come to light I have seen updates come out on all my tablets and phones, which is blessedly rare. Android does not operate in the way you are thinking. There is no need to constantly shove out security updates like windows. The system is pretty well secure unless you unsecure it yourself, new versions of the OS usually just add functions, however there is a current (when is there not?) RUMOR of a adobe bug on all versions of android lower than 4.0. Personally I still prefere windows for business simply because of ease of function and with baytrail cpu's and even more promising hardware coming this year I find no reason not to use windows for hard business needs if your business can benefit from tablet use. There are a plethora of cheap windows tablets coming and the current hp omni 10 is powerful enough to suit any light tablet buisness needs for just 299.00 if your business needs more power pay the premium for a surface pro with a full on i3,5,7 cpu fully capable of doing the work of a high end laptop. All that said, I feel Android is if anything more secure than a windows machine. Nothing comes in unless you invite it. Updates not needed until such time as Android can add base functionality in the realm of windows 7, and it is close imho.

Check the trends
Have to agree with Zeab. The university I work for is now supporting apple mobile devices but not android. And despite my having pressured for some support, what support is was for android devices is disappearing. Why ?
Android from one device to the next is different enough to make support difficult if not impossible. Providing advice on connections to secure servers and use of common software falls foul of the same issue.
Android device manufacturers have attempted to sequester their market by creating difference, but all they'll achieve is failure. Add to that the early obsolescence they have engineered and android is dying, even as its market share grows!
We now as a family have windows, apple and android devices. If I include TVs and media devices the list lengthens. The only option that provides continuity of operating system and software, and longer term support with updates is Apple. Given the way Microsoft has gone off the rails with windows 8.1 (I really do believe that OSs should make my computing experience easier, not harder), I think we will be going Apple in the future.

Has anyone else emailed Amazon about root?

I don't think they notice the full potential their device has because people aren't speaking up about it. I think if enough people here email them, asking for them to open the device up for us, they'll see the benefits of us having root access.
I just wrote those one to them.
I sincerely hope this message is read with an open mind by those in charge of the Amazon Fire TV device. Please, PLEASE make sure this gets to the right people who can make a change.
First off, I'm a die hard fan of Amazon, especially ever since I first got my Prime account. I've had issues with orders in the past, as well as products and the Amazon team has always, ALWAYS had my back, which is why I generally do all my shopping strictly with Amazon, even if I can find it cheaper elsewhere, because I know if issue arise, Amazon has my back.
To the point!
The Amazon Fire TV is probably one of the most nifty devices for steaming that has ever come out. It dominates the Roku which I was a huge fan of. The hardware in this little thing is just downright impressive for what it is, especially with it running Android. The possibilities were endless!
So the issue? I'm speaking for hundreds of people, who all should speak up but don't have the time or will to do so.
The biggest benefit of the Fire TV is the fact stated above, it runs Android. We can do so much amazing things with an operating system as open as Android. The problem we have though, as a large community who love to tinker, such as those of us who are part of the XDA community, is you're not allowing us the full potential of the hardware.
The main reason I bought the device wasn't just because it was Amazon backed, and it ran Android, but because it had root access. With that I was able to run my emulators and play NES games and so forth from the comfort of my couch without having to lug out a computer and have the inconvenience of needing a keyboard and mouse to start it all up.
I had the convenience to put a web browser on it so I could run a wireless keyboard to it if I needed to search for something quickly online instead of going into the other room to turn my computer on or find my tablet.
The device ships with a very limited built in storage which is not very good for installing apps. Just installing Bard's Tale eats up almost the entire storage. With root access we could run external pen drives to allow extra storage.
I want you to really think about the potential your device has. You will lose NOTHING by allowing us to root. You will lose NOTHING by allowing us access to the bootloader for custom roming.
Look at Android phones right now, those that are unlocked, like the Nexus devices are among the most popular because of what we're able to do with it. People buy them SOLEY because they know they can Rom it, customize it and so forth.
People see right now that we can't get root access working again and we're losing a lot of options we once had and it's turning people off.
If people see that Amazon took it's community into mind and let us have our root access....people will respect that and buy more of your devices! It's a Win - Win!
I mean really think about it, what are you going to lose? Some people possibly bricking the device? That's their problem, not yours. Warranty is void when tinkering, plain and simple.
Right now, without root access, we're not much better off than owners of the Roku. No enthusiasts bought the Roku because all it is, is a steaming device. Us tech junkies such as myself, bought the Fire TV soley because it allowed more freedom to do more with my device.
So please, I speak for many, open up the flood gates for the community and give us an unlocked bootloader, or at least just make root access easier to acquire!
Sincerely,
An Amazon Junkie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Spykez0129 said:
I don't think they notice the full potential their device has because people aren't speaking up about it. I think if enough people here email them, asking for them to open the device up for us, they'll see the benefits of us having root access.
I just wrote those one to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazon is notorious for locking down their devices extremely hard. I doubt the Fire TV will be any different. And then you have the fact that the content providers don't really want it. Piracy and all that nonsense they like to say.

The added bonus for a rooted Fire TV is Play Store access complete with a fully functional compatibility filter.
Since I actually (re-)gained access to the Play Store,I was able to use my existing acount from my GS7 to install a paid app on my Fire TV that I once had on the GS7 without needing to buy it again.
I want an unlocked bootloader so I can get the multitasking GUI of a modern Linux Distro.
Maybe if the ARM Linux build of Dolphin with OpenGL 2.0 is found,anyone could use Freedreno to actually get it running on a Fire TV!

Id be more or less happy without root if they'd bake in A) Sideloaded apps showing on the menu and B) External storage
Its cool to be able to do other stuff but these are the deal breaks for me. The internal storage on this thing is so ridiculously small, I have no idea how it made it through Q&A. Id have paid the extra $10 for more memory if they offered it.

retroben said:
The added bonus for a rooted Fire TV is Play Store access complete with a fully functional compatibility filter.
Since I actually (re-)gained access to the Play Store,I was able to use my existing acount from my GS7 to install a paid app on my Fire TV that I once had on the GS7 without needing to buy it again.
I want an unlocked bootloader so I can get the multitasking GUI of a modern Linux Distro.
Maybe if the ARM Linux build of Dolphin with OpenGL 2.0 is found,anyone could use Freedreno to actually get it running on a Fire TV!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why on earth would Amazon support the Play Store when they have their own app store? The idea is to generate revenue, not funnel it elsewhere.

rbox said:
Amazon is notorious for locking down their devices extremely hard. I doubt the Fire TV will be any different. And then you have the fact that the content providers don't really want it. Piracy and all that nonsense they like to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I get that but there were phone companies that said the same thing, then when people took a stand to go to phones that were unlocked, the manufacturers saw the potential. If enough people bug Amazon about it, it has the potential to make them see the benefit.

Amazon hasn't gotten as big as it is by making poor business choices (Fire phone notwithstanding). We tend to forget that the vast majority of people who buy a fireTV don't have a clue what rooting is, much less its benefits. The bottom line for Amazon is that they will make a helluva larger profit keeping their customers within their own ecosystem than any increase in FTV sales that might occur by appealing to those would prefer a box they can root.