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I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
10% of your commission, and you got a deal
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.
Verrrrry interesting original post...
I'm guessing Best Buy. First thing:
Move it out of the stinking netbook aisle at the very back, put it in a more prominent place, where it deserves to be. If you hide stuff like that, people aren't gonna see it, therefore they aren't gonna buy it. This should be basic stuff for a retail chain, but for some reason these types of things slip their mind. When I went to bestbuy to get my xoom, I wouldn't have even known it existed if I hadn't done some research beforehand, and the tablet was waaaaaaaaaaay in the back of the netbook section, and I mean the VERY back...last "stall" there.
As for your boss, I think he can take the hit on ONE xoom to sell many of them. Tell him that the most effective way to "ipad baby-proof" the thing is to root it and install TitaniumBackup. He probably thinks rooting means radically changing things, which currently, it doesn't. You're going to have to explain it to him, probably in baby terms if he's anything like most managers I've had, who didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground. If you put it in terms of profitability, he MAY understand.
As for cool apps, just give the sales force a demo model to play with when they're not doing anything else. Let them get to KNOW the device. When I go to buy something, it's not so important for the sales person to know what they're selling me because I already have done a ton of research, but I am not your typical customer. You're going to get a lot of people in there who aren't really that tech-savvy, so if the sales people on the floor know how to use the device, they can demo some of the cooler features to the people.
For example:
Your grandmother walks into the store, she's looking for something to use to email her grandchildren, perhaps a video chat occasionally and she wants something EASY to use, fairly inexpensive and something she's not going to have to pay the geek squad to set up. Well, right this way ma'am, I have something that would be perfect for you, <insert sales demo here>... unit sold.
Another example:
Younger person comes into the store, looking at iPads. Ask them what they're looking to do with the device. If your sales force KNOWS both the iPad and the Xoom, it's kind of a no-brainer to be able to make the best sale for the customer and isn't that what business is all about?
I rarely go into a superstore like Best Buy and find truly knowledgeable people when it comes to the latest electronics. The BestBuy in South County, Missouri lost a sale not too long ago from me because they told me I couldn't buy the Verizon Xoom off contract, which is nonsense. So I simply went to another store and bought it. Perfect example of a person not knowing what the heck they're talking about.
I realize that there are a LOT of new products out there, but it's the responsibility of the store's employees (and ultimately the store's management) to LEARN about these devices so that when people ask BASIC questions, they can answer them.
It wasn't too long ago that I attended a sales lecture at college. Younger people (age 35 and under) normally knew what they were going after when they went to buy tech, and often preferred to be left alone to fiddle with the product a bit and basically only needed help during the actual sales process (or the retrieval process if the item was locked in a secure case). People 35 and over almost universally wanted help from start to finish because their understanding of the tech wasn't always so great. To sell to that person over 35, which is going to be a sizable portion of your business, your employees need to know that device and demo what it it can do on a moment's notice.
So, to me, you've got the "location, location, location" problem and also the "knowledge, knowledge, knowledge" problem if you haven't sold any of these things yet.
Here's something you can do, which will really appeal to older folks... set up one xoom on one side of the aisle, set up another one in sight of the first, but farther away, perhaps on the other side of the aisle. When someone comes in and asks what the xoom can do, just turn on video conferencing and SHOW them how cool it is. Have your sales people be able to demo the different features.
You can also show them how much FASTER the xoom is rendering web pages than the iPad. Everyone loves to save time, irrespective of age.
Another thing the xoom does EXTREMELY well is reformatting text. It will automatically reformat the text when you zoom in on a website, to make it readable. In fact, it makes the text beautiful.
You can show them how they can have live widgets on their home-screens, and the iPad can't.
Honestly, if people knew what the xoom could do, who in the hell would buy an iPad anyway???
Motorola made a HUGE mistake with their superbowl commercial too, they didn't show what the xoom could do. Nobody is going to buy a device like this because it looks cool. Sure, that's something they think about, but that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down their list, probably down around "what kind of towel do I need to use to clean the screen" or something. What matters most is functionality and price. If it doesn't do what I need it to do, if it doesn't enrich my life in some way, what good is it??
I guarantee you that if you gave me 10 minutes with 10 people who were going to buy an iPad, and they gave me a fair chance to demo what the xoom could do, at least 7 of those would buy the xoom instead. The number would be even higher if it was just a basic netbook buyer, because a good netbook is even MORE expensive than the xoom.
It baffles me that these things aren't FLYING off the shelves. I think that's mostly due to bad sales tactics and poor marketing. It's unfortunate too because it's such an amazing device.
Oh yeah, FLASH. iPad can't give you the web like a desktop can, but xoom can.
Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.
stevenege said:
Honestly, if the person wiped this and the device will not reset it when it is wiped you need to call Moto and let them know or call your Home Office and let them know. PM me what store you work for and I will try and help as best I can.
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Click to collapse
Oh it boots, but its missing the Books app and the music that was preloaded. Hence my problem. I guess doing a factory restore from recovery mode won't get back the music. :/
if you have a Nexus or some other phone that can do mobile hotspot on display or some phone that can do mobile hotspot, that'll be your best chance of getting internet connection. from there you can reinstall anything.
i think most of the displays i've seen failed because of the lack of internet. every ipad i've seen always had internet connection. impressed with some of the free games like Gun bros or dungeon and defenders
vkuber said:
Didn't you say you worked at (Hint - That was easy) - Anyways when I purchased my XOOM from (Staples) it was right in the front near the registers? Had its own display with other accessories, etc. I've been in retail sales before and the only way I would imagine to make more of a push on the product is have both positive and negative reviews about the product compared to other competitors. I believe in 100% honesty and if you are straight forward with a customer and tell them the benefits and disadvantages of the unit compared to what’s on the market currently they will appreciate it. Honesty in my opinion goes a long way then any marketing gimmick a retail chain will try to implement on its staff or customer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Darn! I made it too easy. ^_^
I'm very honest in my sales, I always mention its V1.0 of the software and that the apps aren't there yet. Its very hard to explain its potential without demonstrating it somehow.
And yes we have an endcap right near the registers with lots of accessories. The Xoom deserves a prominent place in our store TBH.
It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
Still looking for a "kiosk-mode" or "kid-safe" app that locks the device settings in some way. That and apps that really bring out the Xoom's best qualities.
Hey check this out for app locking. http://htcdev.net/topic/1224-kid-mode-for-your-tablet-and-smartphone/
Sent from my HTC Incredible using XDA App
Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^
TheGeek007 said:
Also, I'm looking for a way to keep the device on and at full brightness 100% of the time (it will be plugged in 24/7). I know under apps/development you can keep it from powering off while charging, but that doesn't keep it bright.
I'll look into zoodle, but perhaps "kid-mode" is too much control. But its a start. Thanks. ^_^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download Quick Settings (Free) from the market. Once installed, in the menu, choose customize and drag the Screen Timeout to the top area. You can set it to "Never Timeout". This appears to keep the screen from dimming, at least in the 5 minutes I tested it.
Gotta say +1 on the bad placement at best buy. They even had a whole featured section called "tablets" with the streak, galaxy, Ipad, etc. I had to ask someone if they were selling xooms. They were out (this was wifi release day) but they directed me to their demo model all the way on the other side of the store BEHIND all the computers, near the random stereo cables. Went to staples and it was front and center and in stock. Sorry BB, I came to you first and you let me down.
But forget about attracting new people to buy the xoom, put it somewhere that I can find it if I came there SPECIFICALLY for it.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
My suggestion would be putting the wallpaper of android that came preinstalled. Put games like gunbros,dungeon defenders, cordy on the center homescreen. Also gmail widget. And YouTube app is very pretty and lots of people use it and it'll be a very good bet to get people. Also, sideload Amazon appstore as well as the market on there. Picsay also is an awesome little app. Good luck.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Are you allowed to lock apps with a password? If so, there ares dozens of solutions already in the Android market:
https://market.android.com/search?q=app+password&so=1&c=apps
Just apply a password to the apps you want to protect, at least I assume its thats simple... I haven't tried these apps myself, so you'll have to experiment.
TheGeek007 said:
I'm an employee at [removed (PM me if curious)] and we are selling WiFi Xooms. We haven't sold ANY yet! I need some help and advice.
First I need to solve a problem. Some SOB uninstalled the Google Books app, and a factory restore not only didn't fix that, but it wiped the bundled in music as well! I figure I can just make a dummy account for the Xoom and reinstall the Google Books app, but I need to add music so that people can try the music app and test the speakers.
How can I put music on the Xoom so that the music app will have nice album art like before?
Second, I need a way of locking certain apps and settings IE, I need a child-proofing app. The Xoom didn't come with any kiosk software so any Apple fanboy can sabotage the tablet! I also could use a way to return the tablet to a default demo setup, just in case something does happen, like Ti Backup. (The boss says I can't root it )
Is there any app that allows me to "Lock" the settings and/or access to certain apps?
And finally, I need suggestions on apps that show off the functionality. Bonus points for things the iPad CAN'T do. I need apps that show off the power and graphics ability of the Xoom. They have to be fairly easy to use as people might open them themselves, but others I can use to quickly demonstrate features.
Also, I need apps that don't use an internet connection, as sometimes the public wi-fi goes down. That way if it does go down, I can still demonstrate the Xoom's abilities.
Help me sell Xooms and show up all those iSnobs that come into my store!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick list:
Flash (47% of all web sites have flash according to a research firm as of today)
Higher quality cameras (Many times better then the iPad 2)
Excellent battery life
A solid screen. (It might help if you turn the brightness off auto and place it at 100%)
Put it next to the ipad2's, not by netbooks. (some kind of DroidDoes-eque banner would be great, but I can understand that could be hard to get.)
A SD slot (stress that it WILL happen soon. (like may)
4G upgrade (Stress it's FREE, something the iPad 2 will never have, and that it's a hardware upgrade and will only take a matter of days)
I would load up a couple of graphically advanced games on the main home screen. (like maybe GunBros and SpeedX 3D, both of which are fun, free, good looking games)
Stress how open it is to making it individual (ease at which to customize)
If the person looks tech savy, be sure to say the boot loader is unlockable.
Stress the widescreen (16:9) over the "full screen" (4:3) iPad
Use some of the tablet optimized apps to show the multipane options. (show this next to the iPad as an OS designed for a tablet screen, not a handheld screen.)
And lastly for my list, compare the browser to the ipad browser, with tabs and a fuller experience. it earns high marks.
Hope this helped and wasn't too repeative.
(p.s. on the hole lack of books app, just go through and reinstall the apps and register with the same account as the Xoom is on.)
p.s.s. just customize it, make it look like a person uses it, not like it just came from a factory.
Another thing you can show them...
HDMI Out, with HD support. They could even do video chats on their TV (something the ipad can't do w/o an expensive add-on, and even then it doesn't look very good due to it not being HD and being in 4:3).
The ONE area where the ipad beats the xoom is standby battery. But for all that battery, you give up all the cool widgets and what makes android cool. So to me, it was a no-brainer.
If you have the authority, send a demo xoom home with your sales associates, let 'em keep it for a weekend or something so they KNOW what all they can do with it. Encourage them to play with it and do whatever they want. Once a person gets ahold of this device, they'll realize how amazing it truly is and they'll start to spread that enthusiasm to customers. I loved my android phone at first, but after a week of playing with it, I wouldn't trade it for a dozen iphones.
It's all about getting these things in peoples' hands. If they can SEE what it does, they'll want one, it's just that simple. It beats the ipad in virtually every area. When you couple that with the fact that the xoom is incredibly customizable, themeable, unlockable and the browsing experience is so much better, it's a winner of a tablet.
If they want a tablet to play the guitar, drums or some other synthesizer nonsense, then the ipad is for them. If they want to CONNECT to other people and experience the web as it's meant to be, they need the xoom.
Google maps with 3d buildings look great on zoom.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Prepare your Xoom with Moboplayer and load it up with some movies in different formats with all different kind of subtitles (.srt, .ass (this is a subtitle format), and be sure to get some .mkv with built-in subtitles). Then choose the correct subtitle for the correct customer.
>It really irks me, people come in to the store and in that sheepish voice ask "do you have any iPads?". By the time I say "No. But I would love to show you our android ta..." they are halfway out the door.
I don't know what you can do for the Xoom, but it'd help your sales pitch by not starting with a "no."
That said, there isn't much you can do or say, other than to wait for Moto to drop its premium pricing--or until it releases the 16GB SKU at a more competitive price.
http://ubergizmo.com/2011/04/16gb-motorola-xoom-on-its-way
Most people don't want a Xoom and you can't make them.
Sent from my Captivate
I have a Fire in the closet in the Amazon gift wrap which I originally purchased for my 10 yr old. She is pretty responsible so far but she is very very private and is not very open to talk about much, fairly introverted, heavy reader and artist.
So with the latest update still not providing any parental controls over content....yes I know I can use my router to filter traffic for the browser but I can't filter Amazon content. I can lock her out from making the purchase in the latest update I see.
At any rate, I am an avid phone tweaker and am pleased to see CM and ICS is well underway for the Fire.
My question is, is there any type of controls planned or built into the current custom roms or through third party apps? Would I be better off putting CM or ICS on it and using the Google Books and other apps for content? Or do you think I am better off letting her use it out of the box? She's 10 yrs old so she doesn't care about browser performance or quadrant scores.
I am wondering which will provide the best experience while giving me the most control over the use and content available on the device?
jamesnmandy said:
I have a Fire in the closet in the Amazon gift wrap which I originally purchased for my 10 yr old. She is pretty responsible so far but she is very very private and is not very open to talk about much, fairly introverted, heavy reader and artist.
So with the latest update still not providing any parental controls over content....yes I know I can use my router to filter traffic for the browser but I can't filter Amazon content. I can lock her out from making the purchase in the latest update I see.
At any rate, I am an avid phone tweaker and am pleased to see CM and ICS is well underway for the Fire.
My question is, is there any type of controls planned or built into the current custom roms or through third party apps? Would I be better off putting CM or ICS on it and using the Google Books and other apps for content? Or do you think I am better off letting her use it out of the box? She's 10 yrs old so she doesn't care about browser performance or quadrant scores.
I am wondering which will provide the best experience while giving me the most control over the use and content available on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a parent myself my main concern would be control over purchases, as far as censoring content I'm a firm believer in letting children explore their curiosities and interests without a whole lot of intervention on my part aside from the open invitation that they can talk about anything at anytime. There are apps available that would allow you to lock out apps of your choosing, I'm sure if you do a search on the market you would find something suitable to your needs. As far as custom roms vs. amazons rom I don't personally think either one would be better than the other for this purpose. Hope I helped you in some way and I apologize if I didn't.
neilrl79 said:
As a parent myself my main concern would be control over purchases, as far as censoring content I'm a firm believer in letting children explore their curiosities and interests without a whole lot of intervention on my part aside from the open invitation that they can talk about anything at anytime. There are apps available that would allow you to lock out apps of your choosing, I'm sure if you do a search on the market you would find something suitable to your needs. As far as custom roms vs. amazons rom I don't personally think either one would be better than the other for this purpose. Hope I helped you in some way and I apologize if I didn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Black anything with black men. Don't want her turning in to Dakota Fanning in The Secret Life of Bees movie.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
I have 3 kids. I am not censoring them, thats imho not necessary. My parental control is that i have personal look to what they are doing and i think its better to do that personally instead of using censorship programs.
Because my kids know how to workaround any censorship software anyway, they are not stupid. But basically they are not interested in stuff that will be censored anyway.
Typical american censorship anyway is very stupid. Not to allow porn stuff but to allow brutality and murdering and killing people is pretty much pathetic.
So i better stick on talking with my kids about what they are watching, if i find something where i should be concerned.
usurpine said:
I have 3 kids. I am not censoring them, thats imho not necessary. My parental control is that i have personal look to what they are doing and i think its better to do that personally instead of using censorship programs.
Because my kids know how to workaround any censorship software anyway, they are not stupid. But basically they are not interested in stuff that will be censored anyway.
Typical american censorship anyway is very stupid. Not to allow porn stuff but to allow brutality and murdering and killing people is pretty much pathetic.
So i better stick on talking with my kids about what they are watching, if i find something where i should be concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so the reality is i cannot sit on top of my kid all the time nor do i desire to, i do follow up and leave things always open, i am not looking for a passive parenting tool, nor do i really give a damn what anyone else thinks about my methods. I do not believe in censorship. I also don't think it is appropriate to put something in a 10 yr olds hands that has access to absolutely anything the internet has to offer. To me that is a bit of apathetic complacency....."they aren't interested in that stuff". Fine, if they aren't they won't miss it anyways then. Exactly what positive could possibly come from them having access to everything out there at 10 years old? Life is really long and serious, there is plenty of time to learn about the world, in due time, no need to accidentally learn about Big Black ***** go to Vegas #18 at age 10.
So my question remains, which rom would you choose? The official Amazon OS with only access to the Amazon market and content and being subject to whatever Amazon pushes my way, or the CM/ICS experience that gives me complete control, access to the official android market, and no restrictions on what browser, etc....can be used.
jamesnmandy said:
So my question remains, which rom would you choose? The official Amazon OS with only access to the Amazon market and content and being subject to whatever Amazon pushes my way, or the CM/ICS experience that gives me complete control, access to the official android market, and no restrictions on what browser, etc....can be used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no kid version... You are asking for complete control from someone who might possibly end up knowing more about the device than you do. Kids have something that parents dont.... lots of time.
You might get more capabilities with a non-Kindle Rom, but I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for.
10yo is a bit young to have that type of unfettered access... I know what I would have done with it when I was that age.
My two kids are grown up, but they would have been okay with it. I know other kids that other family members have where there is NO WAY I would give them a device like that at that age or even much older.
I would say filter at home through the router. Asfor content and filtering, i thimk the stock rom is best.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
krelvinaz said:
There is no kid version... You are asking for complete control from someone who might possibly end up knowing more about the device than you do. Kids have something that parents dont.... lots of time.
You might get more capabilities with a non-Kindle Rom, but I don't think you are going to find what you are looking for.
10yo is a bit young to have that type of unfettered access... I know what I would have done with it when I was that age.
My two kids are grown up, but they would have been okay with it. I know other kids that other family members have where there is NO WAY I would give them a device like that at that age or even much older.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i got my girls, I have two, a netbook which we let them use, in the family room, with us around. we aren't looking over their shoulder.....but there's something about being in the same room with the parents that makes an impression. They are not allowed to take the netbook to their bedroom. They are not allowed to have cable tv on their tv either. They are lucky to have a tv in their bedroom with a dvd player, neither my wife nor I did. Hell we didn't even have a Nintendo.....
we aren't even religious....just trying to be good parents, let them have room as they get older, but i am not going to just give a 7 and 10 yr old complete access to the internet
i was actually thinking about swapping it out for one of the lesser Kindles without browser and such
I was really hoping maybe there existed a "Kidzui" for Android type of rom or app.
Shark_On_Land said:
Black anything with black men. Don't want her turning in to Dakota Fanning in The Secret Life of Bees movie.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your not serious are you? Please tell me you aren't?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using xda premium
^^^^^^^ What she said
Curious will we be able to use the market and use current apps (that would work with the interface)? I already have all the Gameloft games and others and have no desire to have to repurchase those, the GTA games, Cave shooters, purchased emulators, etc.
If it is exclusive content specific, I will just stick with the Excite 7.7 and its media dock that provides similar function already. Would like the OUYA for another room, but not if buying my same games again.
It's supposed to have support for the Play Store which mean you can login your Google account and download all your purchased games.
This is not the same as the Ouya store which is separate as far as I know.
Sent from XDA app
This would be a good thing to have, much like owning a PS3 and a 360, which system do you buy the new game for cause otherwise you are paying twice for the same game. Even though the games though the play store are not that expensive paying for the same thing twice sucks.
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
The thing on the rooted devices, to some degree, is counter to what they said in making the device open. Heck, they said people will be alloed to root without voiding the warranty. Yet, you can't access the store if you do. I understand the concern especially in regards to piracy. Personally, I don't think being rooted really makes it that much significant to get and use pirated games.
As to games you have already purchased, you can probably just side load them. Use something like ApkExtractor on your android with the game to get the game. You're just not going to have any of your saved games. If the root thing doesn't hold true, then you can probably use Titanium Backup to get it on your device.
With all that said, as raptir implies, not many games in the Google Play support gamepads. And the touch input on the Ouya controller is probably going to be limited, which may make trying to play something like Angry Birds very difficult.
Damn really, they advertise with the device being completely open but then block the Ouya store if you root it?
A deal breaker imo.
Then again, i wonder how the Ouya store will handle temporary unroots like you can with SuperSU.
Temp unroot ->use the store to install something -> root again.
Frag1le said:
... i wonder how the Ouya store will handle temporary unroots like you can with SuperSU.
Temp unroot ->use the store to install something -> root again.
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I didn't think about SuperSU or Voodoo RootKeeper. If it's true about the root thing, then the above and prior would be excellent ideas.
Like many here, some must have apps require root, so it's a bit of a harsh reality to realize Ouya is being root unfriendly, per se.
raptir said:
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
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Wait. So they are basically saying root and you dont have access to games or dont root and dont have access to custom roms and such. They are just going to drive people to piracy. I want root as well as games. The main thing I want to run on this is emulators and XBMC but if there are some good games out there I would spend a few bucks to buy them but not if I have to unroot this thing so I can buy them. I want the ability to over clock this. It has a heat sync and should run smooth at higher clock speeds and you have to have root to do this. I was thinking very seriously about getting one of these for my mother and for my grandmother as a Hulu, Netflix, digital movie device but If this is the case forget about it.
If you can not use Play, this makes more sense for their model, but seems they will lose as many customers as they gain with this approach. I think most people will naturally assume you can use the Play Store, since this is an Android device. It could end up most of the people that buy this will be the rooting crowd, but that will not support an economy of scale model, or an app model for revenue. Most people do not root their devices, so a very contrained install base- especially if even the rooters are locked out of a store.
The returns of this product could be high. You could point out the Kindle and Nook, but even those devices are hurting with constrained markets- especially the Nook which is expected to end after this year. Different devices also.
I really think there are a lot more people like me that will not want to buy their games again than there are that would. So the device is $100, but new controllers are $50 and you need to buy games that only work this one Android device.... Speaking of contollers, have they set those up as well so only their controller works? Why would they NOT do that, based on the app store premise, else people would pay $20 and $30 for already proven controllers.
I still wish the Ouya success, but seems they could have some consumer perception hurdles to get past. Since my desire is zero to buy apps just for one Android device, this will end my negative points, else become a troll or something. :cyclops: Not buying this or any other Android device that forces to an exclusive device and rebuy stuff. Well, I say that now, but could see this as a MAME cabinet down the road in a Tegra 4 version Assuming MAMEReloaded is an install option....
raptir said:
They have actually specifically announced that the Ouya will not support Play Store games.
http://www.ouya.tv/faq/#12
There is a (good, IMO) chance that developers will be able to bring Play Store support to rooted Ouyas. However, the CEO stated previously that rooted Ouyas will not have access to the Ouya store. This was back in July though, so their stance could have changed since then.
That said, you would only really be able to play games that currently support a Bluetooth controller.
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I haven't seen this quote from her, but more than likely they are failing to make the distinction between rooting and an unlocked bootloader. Remember in Android these are two very different things, even if one is usually required to enable the other.
It would be quite easy to detect and block devices with an unlocked bootloader, not so easy to detect and block rooting.
---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------
rushless said:
If you can not use Play, this makes more sense for their model, but seems they will lose as many customers as they gain with this approach. I think most people will naturally assume you can use the Play Store, since this is an Android device. It could end up most of the people that buy this will be the rooting crowd, but that will not support an economy of scale model, or an app model for revenue. Most people do not root their devices, so a very contrained install base- especially if even the rooters are locked out of a store.
I still wish the Ouya success, but seems they could have some consumer perception hurdles to get past. Since my desire is zero to buy apps just for one Android device, this will end my negative points, else become a troll or something. :cyclops: Not buying this or any other Android device that forces to an exclusive device and rebuy stuff. Well, I say that now, but could see this as a MAME cabinet down the road in a Tegra 4 version Assuming MAMEReloaded is an install option....
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Why would you need a Tegra4 to play MAME? My PC from 12 years ago played these arcade games just fine, as did the Linux-based GP2x handheld from 5 years ago.
And no, most of the buyers will not be 'the rooting crowd'. You clearly far overestimate the number of people who read XDA, or do this sort of thing to their phones and tablets. For every person who preordered and hyped this console, there are 5000 parents with too much money to burn, who don't know anything about video games but will buy this $99 console for their children because it's shiny, new and cheaper than any Sony or Microsoft product. And they won't care about the Play Store either, because as long as the games on the Ouya Store are $5-10 and they can restrict purchasing authorization, that's all they want.
I don't like it either, but I'm at least realistic about it. The Ouya makes pretensions of being a "hacker console", but that's all they are. When you scratch the surface, it's still a commercial venture and they really haven't put anything more than a thin veneer of hackability into it. 1x USB port, rooting restrictions, no access to the Play Store.. these are all small things individually but overall they limit your possibilities and ease-of-use. This isn't a Raspberry Pi - it's a GAME CONSOLE. It's designed to sell and make money.
Tegra 3 is slow for a LOT of MAME games that are fast with the A6 (both Android and iOS use same compile of 139.1 ). Since the Tegra 4 is faster with cpu than the A6, the T4 should be a lot better for MAME than Tegra 3.
Games like Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur are examples. They are choppy messes on the Tegra 3.
BTW, even the Tegra 3 is faster than a 12 year old PC with MAME.
amrando said:
I haven't seen this quote from her, but more than likely they are failing to make the distinction between rooting and an unlocked bootloader. Remember in Android these are two very different things, even if one is usually required to enable the other.
It would be quite easy to detect and block devices with an unlocked bootloader, not so easy to detect and block rooting.
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You have that backwards. It is incredibly easy to detect a rooted device and I have run into a handful of applications that do so (and pop up with "Rooted devices are not supported"). Google was previously blocking rooted devices from accessing Play Videos. It's actually very difficult to detect an unlocked bootloader from within the booted system and I do not know of any applications that do so.
The key here is that they've said the Ouya will have a "switch" that will allow you to easily root the device. If that's the case they could very easily tell if you're rooted since they're the ones allowing you to do so. Even something like OTA Rootkeeper that allows for a temp unroot would be ineffective. Since the Ouya is going to have official root support, it's very likely that no one will be looking for an exploit to root it outside of the official method.
Unfortunately the quote about rooted devices not having access to the Ouya store was on a web radio interview a long time ago, so it's not easy to just link to an article. Again, they could have changed their stance since then. If this reddit threat is to be believed, then they are at least aware of the desire for rooted Ouya store access and are hopefully going to change their minds.
rushless said:
Games like Dead or Alive and Soul Calibur are examples
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These are hardly 'MAME' games, these are modern arcade or console ports with a source nearly equivalent to the emulating platform. MAME generally refers to 1980s-1990s arcade boards typically running in the single-digit Mhz, not modern Sega arcade platforms running dual and quad-core Intel-based custom PCs or an XBox360.
Not correct with MAME. The games mentioned have been around in MAME for at least five years and play smooth on the most basic of low endd laptops for the past four. Those games play close to smooth on the iPad 4, so should play smoother with chips like the Snapdragon 600 and Tegra 4.
Though a lot less than the A6 chipset, there are still hundreds of later year games that play perfectly on the Tegra 3.
MAME has no specificity to early year rom sets, though those are some of the more fun ones
Added:
BTW, the CEO of Ouya clearly stated that they will make a lot of their money via their own market, so that answers the Play market issue. They do NOT want people using other markets as a result. They also mentioned the Kickstart money was taken up with early unit purchases, so very imprtant to start revenue through controllers and app purchases.
Still, the potential of this being a mini MAME cabinet is too good to not consider. Perhaps they have eaked more power for the CPUs since no battery life concerns. With PC's you always have the usual Windows issues, but with Android there is a LOT less issues in that regard. True plug & play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmH_DpYMmDo
The gameplay did not look smooth compared to my Excite 7.7, TF 300 or GS3. That said, none are as smooth as the iPad 4.
Another point is that one game is over 1.5GB in size, so 25% of total storage space gone with one game.
I'm an early backer waiting for mine but I'm very sad to see all this. We absolutely must find an unofficial root method that allows Ouya games while srill allowing root and market access. If I have to choose I'll dump the Ouya market for standard android. Please devs help!
Sent from my SPH-L900 using xda app-developers app
Stock images after root?
I read somewhere, which I forgot since I been trying to find something on if root is possible, that the stock system images for OUYA will not be available. Does that mean if we root and put a custom rom, the only way back would be with a self made image?
rushless said:
The gameplay did not look smooth compared to my Excite 7.7, TF 300 or GS3. That said, none are as smooth as the iPad 4.
Another point is that one game is over 1.5GB in size, so 25% of total storage space gone with one game.
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External hard drives and flash drives are natively supported I believe.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
To awnser the initial question, yes you can use them, there wont be a play store (untill somebody on xda makes a not sucky user interface ofc) but you can 'sideload' any apk you desire.
Having said that you sadly cannot download APK's directly from google play anymore, but theres several chrome and firefox plugins that will help you with that, also any apk you may have from an Android Humble Bundle (bonus points for buying humble bundles!) should work fine.
Once you have your apk, theres several ways to transfer it, easyest is to plug the ouya into your computer using the provided usb link, then placing your APK files in the found usb device, and then reaching said APKS trough the MAKE menu in the OUYA to install.
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
JLCollier2005 said:
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
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I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
dibblebill said:
I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*hint*
/mnt/asec/<name of app>/pkg.apk
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
JLCollier2005 said:
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can transfer them by using the post above me's method (basically, use root access to rip the APK), but sometimes you'll hit copy-protection snags. I really am just responding to weigh into the first comment of this selected quote.
It is actually a legal issue, and a pretty nasty one at that. Both devices being Android is wholly irrelevant, because it's not the operating system that matters, but the rules and EULA of each platform. It's easy to mix the two with Android, since almost no one runs "bare" Android-- most of us run the Google-flavored platform, complete with the Play Store and its own set of rules. When you buy apps from the Play Store, you basically agree to only run them on certified hardware and not to make unauthorized copies. I suspect there's similar terms in OUYA's store agreement (else you'd never get large studios to sign on).
Such being the case, any transferring of paid APKs (or even non-paid ones) is probably illegal. As to whether or not it's ever enforced (or indeed, enforceable)? Totally different question, and it's probably no on both counts.
I agree with overall with Rirere. This probably boils down to that we actually don't own the apps, but have licenses to use them. And most likely the license is tied to the hardware or device serial number. But Google build in easy transfer so we don't have to rebuy the licenses when each new device.
This is actually more on a old issue, but on a newer devices. The PC market has been dealing with softtheft since the 80s. You rarely ever buy the software. It's just license to use it.
The potential issue is DRM. The FCC clearly states using anything to break DRM encryption is illegal. This is why making copies or ripping DVD or blue ray movies, such as those at your favorite retailers, is illegal.
My guess, even if it is trackable, I don't think a developer is going to care as long as you actually purchases the game somewhere and you're just using it on your device. Not giving it to friends or others. Their issue is more that a game will be very popular, but half the people who have it, bit torrented it, which does not put food on their table.
I know on my Galaxy Note 2 for Sprint, GTAVC isn't available through Google Play. I bought on my Android tablet. Made an APK and put it on the GN2 and runs well. I wrote Rockstar what I did, so hopefully they can fix the issue. They have it in writing I did something illegal. Did not get a cease order or law suit threat. Got a thanks.
If you're that concerned, just use open source applications. There's a license but it's more about distribution channels and the environment it's used in. So you can side load all your want on the Ouya (with a very rare exception(.
Thanks for the replies.
My concern wasn't what would happen if I did get them to work/strip the DRM (It's easy enough to find the apps with their DRM stripped anyway), it was just more of a frustration at developers charging what would be double for the same app essentially, but after I posted this, I came to the realization that, as Rirere said, both being android was irrelevant. Just because they are programmed for the same base doesn't mean they should work on all pieces of technology with that base. OUYA is not a Google product in anyway and so therefore the licence I bought with my purchase has nothing to do with the licence I can purchase through OUYA.
It's a really interesting topic and goes back to something I first thought of when eBooks first came out. Is it wrong to download a copy of an ebook to a book that you purchased? It comes down to the fact that yes, they are two different licences, even if they contain the same information.
Anyway, thanks again, very interesting stuff!
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
lovekeiiy said:
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
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Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense.
Developers see a way to use their skills to make something that they (and hopefully others) value. If you value what they have made and want to encourage creation of similar products, you tell them by supporting their efforts (i.e. buying the "license", donating, etc). It benefits them (food on the table) and you (you didn't have to spend the time to learn the language and write the app but still share in the benefits).
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
mybook4 said:
Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense. ...
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True, some laws end up stinking because they're being applied to thing that weren't even imagined when the law was created. Some stuff just falls into a weird spot where it's illegal, but, probably not mean to applied to certain aspects of life. Like DRM on discs. It's meant to keep people from pirating the material. Yet, I don't think movie studios really expect us to buy a copy for every device we want to view the content on. Although, they would love it if we did. The just don't people consuming the content without paying in some form.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. ...
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What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
lovekeiiy said:
What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
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I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
Nate Rules said:
I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
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Click to collapse
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
JLCollier2005 said:
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
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Well, I see where you are coming from. Ouya certainly doesn't have to let us do anything. But there are companies out there that will. I wish we never gave Microsoft so much control over our stuff. I don't view that as a good thing. Also, if Samsung tried to block the Play Store from your S3, would that be ok. Heck No. Everyone would be outraged. It's Android that will make this whole catagory awesome. But it isn't just the console, it's the whole ecosystem. http://www.mogaanywhere.com/about-moga/moga-pro-controller/
This is the Moga Pro. This plus your phone can do anything the Ouya can do. They have their own marketplace. But all it does is show you which games that have been optimized for the moga. It then links you to the Play store. No need to re-buy anything.
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
Nate Rules;42739819... I also own a Moga pro said:
And this may be where the issue lies with so many. Smartphones and the Ouya were not designed to meet the same needs. Yes, they made both run on Android and share hardware. End of the day, the Ouya was designed to be an Android based game system. Not just a general Android device that can be hooked up to the TV, ie a WiFi tablet with no screen.
You also touched the conflict I've had with the Ouya ever since it was announced on Kickstarter. The redundancy to other devices, specifically Android based smartphones and tablets. Serious, I can do everything on the Ouya with either my Galaxy Note 2 or Infinity Pad tablet. I just don't want to leave permanently attached to the TV. I also hoped that supporting it, it would show there is a market for an alternative gaming system, and maybe get developers attention, which hopefully can bring some good games to Android devices, versus just stuff like Angry Birds or ported classic games like GTA (which are still fun to play).
Nonetheless, Ouya store makes sense for both the consumers and as a business model. Whether it'll be successful, that I won't venture to guess. But it falls along the line I've seen in regards to OnLive. A lot people I know had issue with the face that there was no physical disc. They didn't like that they couldn't control having the game. Not exactly the same, I see that fact that people not having access to games on Google Play being following the same logic. The common theme, I'm not buying any games I can't use on all my Android devices.
That said, I'm not saying people shouldn't have that opinion. It's perfectly valid. Yet, to apply that thinking to any device build on the Android OS I believe is being obtuse.
On a side note, I didn't realize the MOGA could fit the GN2. I went with GameKlip and Clingo Neklit combo and use PS3 controller and Sixaxis Controller for my mobile gaming. I like it. I thought the MOGA could only be used with games that had MOGA code, so you couldn't use it with other games such as emulators. That was my issue with it.
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Yeah, the Moga Pro easily fits the Note 2 but it only goes about a centimeter more so I am hoping the Note 3 will fit in it. But it also has 2 modes. It does it's Moga optimized thing which is pretty awesome. And it has the regular bluetooth controller mode. So it works with all games and emulators that can do that.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/20/nvidia-shield-300-june-27/#comments
Just saw this on Engadget. This is the nVidia Shield and in the video it states that their store will show you what games work and then link you to the Play Store just like the Moga.
I may still get the Ouya in hopes that it will get hacked good. But it pains me to support such a company. I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming.
But once the real Android consoles come out, they will have all of the games that the Ouya has and the Ouya will be forgotten. The Ouya 2 will be a failure and there will be a lot of people wondering why they bought games that are of no use to them now. This is the rout Ouya is taking, they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
Nate Rules said:
... I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming. ... they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
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Thanks for sharing your experience on the MOGA. Very interesting. I don't think I would have gotten it, but they didn't explain that well on their site when I checked it out. I already had the Sixaxias app and extra PS3 controllers by that time.
Actually, Ouya isn't trying to advance mobile gaming. What they're really trying setup is more a platform for the small or independent game developers because many other platforms are entry costs are significantly more. It's because Android is open source, tools are developed, and other items related are also open source. Seriously, the Ouya we all get is a developer console. All you do is just register with Ouya as a developer and it opens up the developers menus--make, and builds. The rest is more just installing Android and Ouya developer kits.
I would say for the general consumer, most aren't going to feel jaded because they're not going to access to Google Play. It's a $100 gaming box that uses Android OS. Since it's so new, most games aren't that special. If anything, I've been disappointed about the controller with it's quality control. The console itself is fine. I'm not holding the lack of quality games against them. It's too new in release and concept. But maybe if they can get the numbers, we'll game developers making more full fledged games, like those on major gaming consoles. Consumers have shown that if it's a fun game, graphics are not a critical via the Wii.
As for the money grab, I'm not buying it. The real money is in the market and the 30% fee they'll get off the sales. Same concept with iTunes, Google Play. I don't know what the fee is, but it's what consoles do with their online markets and royalty fee to put a game on a disc for the console.
The MOGA is a cool concept, but honestly it's not something that is not in the same realm as OUYA. If I wanted a portable gaming system with full controls I'd carry around a DS. The MOGA adds a good amount of bulk and I would not carry it around all the time. In the end, the MOGA would be a waste of money (for me, it's a good concept for some I'm sure) even at $40. I'd rather spend the extra money and get something I can play on my TV. Like the post above me said, I have controllers laying around that I can use with my phone if I really wanted to play on that screen. The point of gaming on my phone is to do it when I least expect it (i.e. stuck in a line or waiting for someone) and the MOGA is just inconvenient
I may not have felt this way while I was in school, where I could stick it in my backpack and leave it there. I know there are probably a lot of people who would jump on getting the MOGA for $40 so I'm not putting it down, just saying they're two different things. One is essentially a bluetooth controller and the other is a home console.
Android is by far the cheapest platform to create hardware around right now, not to mention it's pretty stable. OUYA might be the first fully backed Android console, but it won't be the last and I can guarantee any developer who wants to make an impact in this new sub-genre of consoles will NOT include the google play market. If they did, there console would turn into nothing more than an old phone with an HDMI out port, a dead end when it comes to profit. Either that or they'd end up charging 500+ for it, which I don't think would sell.
Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
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Hello Nate, this is Jose from Mad Catz, we are very excited about our upcoming M.O.J.O. launch and let all of you check how this new device will be. We worked to achieve the best Android Micro-console solution so far, and I think we achieved it.
Fresh updates will come shortly, by now you can check our new video which reflects our entertainment solution on Youtube: MadCatzCompany.
Enjoy!
J
Nate Rules said:
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
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That's FUD. Ouya doesn't do a thing to stop custom ROMs. The bootloader is unlocked. I also keep hearing that the recovery mode is crippled, but that's wrong too. You just need a USB keyboard to boot into recovery and to navigate the menus. There's a lot of people jumping to the worst possible conclusions anytime something doesn't work exactly the way they thought it would. Just this week, when people were having trouble installing The Cave, a couple of guys decided Double Fine and Ouya had conspired to implement some form of DRM scheme to block rooted consoles. Turns out it was just a firmware bug that affects large games. The fix was released today.
That said, until the StockPlus ROM finishes their version of Abominable Snowman (or someone else comes out with something) you're better off using rooted stock with Xposed mods for now.
Regarding MOJO and Shield vs Ouya, what they aim to do is somewhat different, and I think a lot of people are looking at Ouya backwards. MOJO and Shield specifically aim to bring Android gaming to hardware that's made for gaming, and I think that's a valid market. If that's what you want, go get those. Ouya aims to make what is a hobbyist and indie console first and foremost, which just happens to use Android as a means to that end. Ouya is Ouya before it is Android, just like Android is Android before it is Linux. The system ROM and OS for most '80s hobby computers was built around BASIC, but we don't think of them primarily as machines for running BASIC. We think of them as a Sinclair, or a Commodore 64, or an MSX machine.
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
Zehrfox said:
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
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You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
nemosomen said:
You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
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Click to collapse
Is it really" stealing" if it's a game you bought already in one of the other Android stores?
Having said that, I do expect to see some piracy on the OUYA, just because the always on DRM will annoy people enough that they will seek a way to end that annoyance one way or another. Once that genie is out of the bottle, it will be very hard to put it back in. Of course the OUYA is different than the usual consoles...
I'm curious to see if there will be overall less piracy as a whole though, as "casual pirates" simply content themselves with the demo and free to play games available to them. Or if lack of piracy goes to lack of sales as well? This is a very interesting experiment we're embarked upon.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
Zehrfox said:
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
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Best post i ever read in a long time: ) i share your opinion.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
It was my understanding that Ouya was going to be fairly open for just these reasons? Haven't been keeping up with jt to much lately but I recall during development there was at least a commitment to work with modders.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
brandogg said:
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
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If Steam can do it with their Steam Sales why can´t the Ouya? Sometimes things ARE overpriced and people who can't afford 10 bucks could afford 1 to 3 bucks. Is Piracy a good thing, no but its an obvious result to a problem.
Whoever said that there won't be any sales on Ouya? Google Play has sales all the time, I imagine Ouya will too, but give it time - the console has only been on the actual market for like 5 or 6 weeks...
But if "Ouya Staff should really read this! - Important" then the official Ouya forums would probably be a better place for the posting.
Thanks for the replies
To Exnor - Thank You! - your comment means a lot - I was hoping I was not alone on this
Regarding Sideloading: - I did not mean to imply that ALL sideloading is stealing or piracy. I have also sideloaded apps that I have already purchased. The example that I gave was a real example of my own, and I did download the app, from a alternate site and sideload it, instead of paying the store price - in that example, because I felt it was priced too high. Sideloading is at least one way to get apks installed on a device without buying through an app store. In contrast, I have sideloaded a few free apps onto the Ouya, simply because they were not available in the Ouya store.
Ouya Forums: - I am not registered on any other Ouya forums, I may have to look into that to try and get some Ouya Staff to see this info. I truly feel that they are missing a valuable market here (Power Users), and want them to succeed. I was a kickstarter supporter. Feel free to repost this on those forums, if you are a member, and let me know, by posting here.
Thanks to all of you, I sincerely love this forum and the great ideas and information you all share. It has helped me a lot, and I hope my words contribute in some way, because I am not the expert rooter, modder, like most of you are.