Database Users

Lets support Android developers!!

Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!

Agree with you lets unleash the beast off this tegra
sent from my Motorola XOOM

I want Square Enix on board. I've gotta play Chaos Rings, Final Fantasy 1,2 and 3 on my iPhone... Chaos Rings was a pretty neat mobile RPG.

i just purchased The History great battles medieval, which i have to say looks pretty ugly lol!! But still I dont mind spending the $6.00 bucks, i might like it later But the more support we actually show, the more developers will jump on board, and create better looking games for Tegra. I would love to play resident evil Zombies, need for Speed hot pursuit on our amazing Xoom devices, but its up to us to show that its worth making games for Android. So if we can spend $5.00 on things we don't need, surely we can spend the money to help benefit us as Xoom owners in the long run!!

MRCANNADY said:
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
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I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.

cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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i disagree with your statement..regardless if i posted this or not, developers have already mentioned the fact that bootlegging is a problem with Android owners in general. We have to show developers that we are serious about supporting them. So it's good to show that we are committed to buying apps/games, and that developers will be rewarded for taking the time to develop for us. if we acknowledge the problem and speak about about it, hopefully that will get people on board if they want the better-quality games for Android!

Apple has alot of bootlegging. its just as easy to get a paid app for free on ios devices, as it is on android. I think apple devices have more apps because their is more people to use the product. And devs only have to make it for th Device iPhone Ipad ect. But with anroid you have a little harder time because everything has the android os on it samsung HTC motorola ect.

Ask an ios developer who also produces a like android app which generates more revenue and which gets stolen more.

This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.

I second the notion of supporting devs, but priacy isn't the primary problem. The biggest problem is market share and time on market. As both of those increase, they will no longer be an issue. This said, it wouldn't hurt to try and cut down priacy and maybe for a free app with a donation option somewhere, use it if its a good app. (Not always obviously, but sometimes is a great start.)
Sent from my Xoom the way it should be, rooted and with SD card.

Appealing to people's better nature is about the same as asking for donations. You aren't gonna get too far.
I think the best anti-piracy approach isn't DRM, but to convert it to a service. You can't pirate a MMOG. Not all software can be tailored to this, but most can, especially in this age of 24x7 connectivity. Software is heading in this direction already, with SaS and of course Da Klowd.
The tough cookie is how to extend the SaS model to media, viz movies and music, given their fundamentally "offline" nature of consumption.
Perhaps the way forward for the movie/music industry is to wrap them in software, eg make them interactive. Say, a piece of music can be played at varying tempo of your choosing, or it can be auto-remixed using templates, or it can be sweetened depending on your mood, etc.
Interactive movie is a tougher row to hoe, since movie watching is mainly a linear experience. But once animation gets to the point of achieving photo-realism, then a movie can conceivably be constructed like a game.
A major weakness of games thus far is lack of pathos. It's hard to be scared, or feel sad or joy, when playing a computer game, as opposed to watching a good movie. Perhaps a movie-game hybrid, with real human actors in intermixed sequences, will achieve this.

I disagree with you. The post by the OP is something like "encouragement" to give MORE SUPPORT to Android developer.
1. To talk more about Android apps to friends and family
2. To contact particular apps developer to create Honeycomb version of their Android apps
3. To contact iOS developers to port their product to Android Honeycomb
4. To create great detailed reviews of Android Honeycomb apps / games and spread the word
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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Agree ...
The thing is for people who do not want to buy, they will not buy anyway.
This kind of thing is mentality. No matter what, they will always find away to pirate.
What I always do here at my work is to promote and specifically tell all my friends about Android apps and why they should not pirate them (some of them do pirating).
Come on, the price is not expensive! Really not expensive! I cannot believe people risking their phone by installing illegal version for something worth like $1 or $2.
However, I would love to have options to PERMANENTLY REMOVE / DELETE certain apps from my Google Checkout account!
Yes, not all apps are good ... Sometimes, I regret that I bought "that" app. And now, it is listed in my Google Checkout account
I could do some kind of "donation" by buying "any" good apps or ported apps from iOS, once a month for example I will do this to give support to Android devs. But yeah, I don't do this now because I hate to have long list in my Android Market purchased apps list.
KerryG said:
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
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Thank you guys for understanding my post. I think Android wants Honeycomb to be more *centralized* like Apple..meaning that developers won't have to worry about making different versions of apps n games since most tabs running honeycomb will have the same base specs. We need let devs know that we are serious about supporting them...The Android family will or has already outgrown Apples fan base..so developers can make money from us but they need to know that most of us will buy their products. You never know who's reading these forums.

I have no idea whether there is a lot or a little piracy on android phones. Unfortunately there will always be a segment of any group willing to justify stealing products or information. Some groups worse than others. My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that. Now being in the video game industry I can attest to piracy especially on the pc. It gets to the point where its almost pointless to produce a variant of a console game on pc. If the drm is too restrictive you get blasted all over th internet. If you don't put a really restrictive drm on them every pc owner wil have bit torrented your game. Very frustrating.
In any case, that does not seem to be the case with android. I think the best formula is to provide a free version to test with limited functionality and sell a full version so the people who want all of the features can get them and support the app devs. Such as docs to go. So long as the programs stay relatively cheaper there not be much incentive pirate.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

>My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that.
In that most here have bought a $600-800 gadget, we can say that the demog for this forum have higher disposable income than the norm. Another thing we can say is that some number here are content producers or business owners, so there is more empathy for app devs. In short, those here aren't mainstream people.
I don't think the economics of software pricing will suddenly be lowered to the <$10 variety (as dominated by current phone apps) for the simple reason that software devs haven't decided to work for less money. IOW, TCO will be the same, because cost of production is still the same. The different thing is that the distribution channel now is more democratized, and there'll be more software as services than as packaged e-goods.
The issues of piracy are well-known; no need to rehash them here. Suffice it to say that it will be the same for tabs as it is for PCs.

Part of the problem with our Open Ecosystem is the crowd that it has attracted.
These people who love and kill for 'Open' have had access and use of FOSS(Free Open Source Software) for years - everything just about has been about FOSS.
It's difficult to retrain the mindset of these guys to pay for any software. I am not saying anyone is stealing, I am saying they don't see the current sets of software worthy of $0.99 - the cost is not the factor here, the mind set of FOSS is.
That being said the 'Free' in 'Free Open Source Software' does not mean free from $$$ - it just usually happens to be that way with most software used on an open Linux platform.
That being said, I have purchased every app that I have tried, liked, and a pay version has been available for - there are 10 or so that I don't even have installed any more because I just don't use them (programs designed for 1.5, 1.6, or 2.1 - that don't need to be used any more because features exist).
I get the 'Support Future Development' theory, and would gather to say that most of who do Pirate software really don't understand how a development cycle works, or how you make it profitable. I'd almost bet that 40% of the windows copies that hit this web page a day aren't legit. I'd also say that number is safe and low.
If you want a Free OS - take a bit of time and learn linux (Mint is as easy and Windows) - don't steal from that mean multi billion dollar corporation. Theft causes prices to rise, denying them the sale causes prices to fall and force them to become competitive.

On a side note...
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
I think the Android market will always be the step child but on the other hand it is filled with enthusiasts and real people that are approachable. It's more like a team (see this forum). I am very proud to be a member of this community and I am very tempted to switch to an Android phone when I next have the option for a new phone. I currently have a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and probably paid more on Cydia than on iTunes Also, I have paid for way more apps on the Xoom (and way more money was spent) than all my iPhone apps together!

funnycreature said:
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
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Yes, they do get a % of the price of the App, I think they receive 20% when the app is listed for the free app of the day - There are some other stipulations to that though. They get 70%? I believe when the app is purchased normally and Amazon keeps 30% finders fee so to speak, covers CC Processing and Amazon over head.

I would gladly buy the apps if i only could. Like someone already posted, apps are not exactly expensive when you consider the price we have paid for our Xooms.
Only problem is that for some reason Google doesn't offer paid apps in my country
I understand that Market Enabler also doesn't work for wifi only Xoom?
Does anyone know a way how i could buy apps?

Q - Incredible App Idea - What Now?

Hello All,
I have an idea for an excellent app. It is an app that I see having the ability to generate mass amounts of money. I have been waiting for an app of its type to come out for a long while now, but have not seen any. I do not have the skills to create said app, and want to know what my best bet to get in with a dev team would be? Anyone know how to get in touch with the Big Boys of the app world to get this thing going? It is not a question of if, I KNOW this app will be successful. Please help and thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Ron

learn how to code is my best advice

Just find a developer here at xda or on the market that has an app that looks similar to or at least looks like they have the ability to produce something like what you would want, then send them an email.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500

Give us a hint on the type of app: theme-based, music, RSS reader, e-mail, SMS, Global Thermonuclear War for Android
I'm sure a lot of developers are busy and would just like to see if your app falls in their skill set/schedule.
Thanks,
Roots

The low down...
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.

Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.

Well ask any developers here or if u know java try learning android

Well, I'm out! LOL I don't do games.
However, good luck to you!!

If you want to develop a game, be informed that aside from Java you also need to learn some C++ and OpenGL so it can take serious amount of time.

RonnyT24 said:
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
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So that's badminton
.......
Android blog: blackbearblanc.tumblr.com
Twitter : @jeppefoldager
Google+ : gplus.to/jeppefoldager
Rock band : thedeadradio.dk

Two options hire someone to make it. Or write it yourself...that's pretty much it lol.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

viulian said:
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
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Click to collapse
Yes. I like the way to think. I have been doing most of the things said here. Contacted a group from a newly popular app in the store and got some "feedback". Not on the app itself but what it would take to get them to even sneeze at it. Blah... So say I had someone with money to back this... I have been looking around and it appears its impossible to patent or even block people from copying the app down to the most minute of changes making them different. Apparently its easier to get something done about it in the App Store but cheaper and easier to get an app in the Android Market. Before anyone snaps, I hate apple (I use to love them but after the 3gs/Ipad came out and I realized it would be the same incremental updates forcing me to buy new every year just like the Iphone/3g, I have hated them sense).
I just wish I could get EA or someone big like that to even respond to my emails. There really arent that many sports apps worth a damn. This one would open the whole thing up. Actually using multi-touch to do more than button spam. A game where being ranked against the world wouldn't depend on how often you play but, actual win/skill pct. I havent even played the game an I already love it hah.
WTF DO I DO!?!?!

Going after EA or a UbiSoft is going to be damn near impossible. You have to have "name" power (think Tiger Woods or Peyton Manning name power).
They PAY people $70,000 a year to come up with game ideas and then spend millions and 5 years developing it..can you say "Diablo 3"? LOL
Odds are your app is a "been there, done that" concept or is not a viable market opportunity in their eyes.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm just expressing my opinion. I hope you can market your idea and make millions! I'm trying to do that with every month, every day and every line of code I write.

Is it now illegal to root the Nexus 7

I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?

Righteous Joe said:
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
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Where did you read this? Doesn't sound right to be honest, not sure how rooting a tablet would differ in a legal sense from rooting a phone, they are near enough the same device after all. Ultimately it is your device that you own so you are free to do with it as you wish, its not as if you're rooting will have a major impact on anyone else. Unless you are caught installing pirate apps which would be considered as illegal.

Writing "I read [...]" and then not following up with a source means you completely lack credibility
Maybe you are referring to the decision cited in these sources
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3556740/copyright-dmca-jailbreak-unlock-mod-ruling
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...pyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
Take your time and read these sources
Also take your time to read up on material by senior xda members on the difference between rooting your device and unlocking your bootloader. It basically renders your "illegal to root" statement completely invalid.
Moving back to the Nexus 7, although the ruling is vague as #@!$ when it comes to tablets, your not forcibly breaking open the bootloader; its practically an on/off switch on the N7--Google is not coming after you.

The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......

Jailbreaking is illegal for iPad.
But unlocking and rooting a Nexus 7 is a whole different story. You don't need a exploit, thus you are not breaking any protection, that is why it is legal.
At least in the EU.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

There is a further distinction that can be drawn. In the case of an Android tablet it is using an OS that is in effect free of any restrictions - so you can "copy the book, change it and publish it, provided you acknowledge the source", contrast this with Microsoft and Apple ......sue,damages etc.

CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
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You are incorrect good sir. The jaillbreaking exemption, which is no longer valid, didn't come about from a legal challenge. It was granted by the Librarian of Congress under the normal review process that takes place every three years. Furthermore, rooting phones for purposes of installing and operating legally obtained software is also exempted.
To address the OP, there's a lot of FUD going around about rooting tablets. The factual reality is that absolutely nothing at all has changed. Rest assured that, contrary to the sensationalism from some, the sky is in no danger of falling.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

If rooting a tablet (tablet computer) is illegal, then why don't we get only user account on windows (Administrator account locked) and when we install Ubuntu, why are we not only provided with our user folder and don't have access to anything else? It's exactly the same. I don't know why Android, as basically another one of oh-so-many Linux distros would be the only one, where you are not aloud to access root folders? Linux is open source, and it is your right to be provided with root access.
And since the purpose of root on Android is not installing cracked apps (you can sideload them with enabling 'outer sources'), I see absolutely no reason, why wouldn't it be legal.
Is editing your BIOS settings on PC legal? Again, I don't see why different rules would apply to desktop then to smaller version of PC (which smartphones pretty much are).
You bought the device, it's yours. Even if you decide to take it to another carrier, you paid them, you accepted the contract, you pay penalty in case you cancel the contract sooner. Just because I bought a car in Germany, doesn't mean it's suddenly illegal to drive it in Slovenia.
iOS is different issue. It's not open source, but again I don't see why jailbreaking would be illegal. Of course, installing cracked apps is different, but that's illegal anywhere.

This kind of garbage bugs be to no end... If I buy product A, then I should be able to do what ever I want to product A how ever I want, in regards to electronics. I bought the device, and no judge is going to tell me I can not unlock/root/etc it.

Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
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How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.

gnustomp said:
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
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You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.

AFAinHD said:
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
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No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.

when google comes after me for supporting their os with a law suit for changing my devices gui via root would be the end of days. So, yeah won't happen. sony and microsoft just ban people and their mac ip on their console i'd assume if they ever did do anything, they could ban you from market?

I Am Marino said:
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
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Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.

AFAinHD said:
There is no reason why you should not support them.
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Well I see at least one reason, (which of course is valid only to some apps, not all of them), and that is usualy true to big games only:
- how long have you today to request reffunds for apps you do not like / want / can not use? 15 minutes? or is it even shorter time now? (I do not know how it is now, sorry, I only use free/ad-supported apps now)
- how long does it takes for you to download 2GB of app data? For me it is definitly a LOT longer time that 15 minutes...
- which one of these (above mentioned) apps offer some kind of trial or limited demo or something? How can you try such apps to find out whether you like it or not ?
Can you see the reason for why not to support such apps? Or at least in the first place? Of coure that it is better (for many reasons) to buy the app in the end if you like it. But you can not tell that if you can not evaluate it.
And you are wrong that these apps cost lest than $1 and thus are cheap (or at least I understand that this was something you were triing to say), most of such apps cost $5-$15, and that can be realy a lot of money if you are not from US, just because you earn $15 per hour does not mean everyone does, there are countries where people works whole day or even week for $15.
Oh, and just to be clear: I do not thing that pirating software is good thing, but sometimes it is the only way how to evaluate something. And you should be allowed do do that, right? Or would you buy a car without (at least) triing to sit in it?
All right, all right, we can just preted that the apps (or game or music or anything) which looks like we want (or need) it does not exists, but to be honest: Can you realy do that? Especially when there is no similar replacement? Or would you just happily pay any price the DEV asks, hoping that it will be usefull to you?
And one more thing:
Lot of people here is stating that court or local law or anyone forbids/encourages something - well this kind of information is totally useless if you forget to tell us in which country/region is that true.
And just to prove my point: there is a country that legaly allows downloading of audio files. Also there is a coutry that allows legaly to use pirated Operating system (namely that was true for Windows XP, not sure if they extended that somehow). Is that information usefull to you? I do not think so, unless you live there and in that case, you should already now...

..

I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
AFAinHD said:
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
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I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that. As a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

This i totally agree with .This can stand for anything rather its music apps or even a drawing of a home done in Cad or even a book.. Think if you spend 2 years writing a Book. Then two days after its released you see it on a pirated site when its being retailed for 13.00 .While you have 2 years worth of bills piled up unpaid.Hoping the book sales. App developers often go thru this same thing. I like most everyone else did download some music in the past.NO longer would I do so . Never software and never reading material. Now if its not legal its not coming in our home or on my devices..If its to expensive the author or developer did not want to sell it.
Bottom line is support the people who Create the things that make your life enjoyable and easier to live. They wanna make ends meet to.. But its not really about the money its about what is right and wrong..
sgtpepper64 said:
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that, as a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
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Click to collapse

Paid apps on OUYA from Google Market

I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?

JLCollier2005 said:
I'll start by saying this isn't a post asking how to get paid apps from your phone onto OUYA illegally or how to download them DRM free.
Those of us who have our OUYA's have become aware of how easy it is to install apps, but has anyone tried to take an app from OUYA and put it onto another Android device? Is this something that can be done?
I ask this because of my one (and only) concern with OUYA is developers porting over games/apps that are already on the Google Market. An example of this that we can already see is Final Fantasy III. It's the same game (same code) with just a few tweaks to work better with the controller, but it's $15 on both the OUYA store and Google Play.
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.

dibblebill said:
I have been workign on this issue myself. I've yet to figure out a way to do it. I once had a Framework package that let me get to the Google Account login screen but would never actualyl connect to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*hint*
/mnt/asec/<name of app>/pkg.apk
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium

JLCollier2005 said:
IMO, if someone has bought it on Google Play, they should be able to get it on the OUYA, but that's not currently something that can happen. It shouldn't be a legal issue, since both are Android.
Or am I looking at this wrong and should forget about OUYA being Android (and linked to Google Play) and think of it more like the difference between downloading a game on Playstation 3 and xbox 360? And just be happy that we CAN install non-paid apps not "supported" by OUYA?
I am all for supporting the OUYA and even Google Play, which is why I'm not just going out to bootleg the game, but if we can transfer paid apps/games from one phone to the other, from tablets to phones, am I thinking wrong in feeling we should be able to transfer them to the OUYA as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can transfer them by using the post above me's method (basically, use root access to rip the APK), but sometimes you'll hit copy-protection snags. I really am just responding to weigh into the first comment of this selected quote.
It is actually a legal issue, and a pretty nasty one at that. Both devices being Android is wholly irrelevant, because it's not the operating system that matters, but the rules and EULA of each platform. It's easy to mix the two with Android, since almost no one runs "bare" Android-- most of us run the Google-flavored platform, complete with the Play Store and its own set of rules. When you buy apps from the Play Store, you basically agree to only run them on certified hardware and not to make unauthorized copies. I suspect there's similar terms in OUYA's store agreement (else you'd never get large studios to sign on).
Such being the case, any transferring of paid APKs (or even non-paid ones) is probably illegal. As to whether or not it's ever enforced (or indeed, enforceable)? Totally different question, and it's probably no on both counts.

I agree with overall with Rirere. This probably boils down to that we actually don't own the apps, but have licenses to use them. And most likely the license is tied to the hardware or device serial number. But Google build in easy transfer so we don't have to rebuy the licenses when each new device.
This is actually more on a old issue, but on a newer devices. The PC market has been dealing with softtheft since the 80s. You rarely ever buy the software. It's just license to use it.
The potential issue is DRM. The FCC clearly states using anything to break DRM encryption is illegal. This is why making copies or ripping DVD or blue ray movies, such as those at your favorite retailers, is illegal.
My guess, even if it is trackable, I don't think a developer is going to care as long as you actually purchases the game somewhere and you're just using it on your device. Not giving it to friends or others. Their issue is more that a game will be very popular, but half the people who have it, bit torrented it, which does not put food on their table.
I know on my Galaxy Note 2 for Sprint, GTAVC isn't available through Google Play. I bought on my Android tablet. Made an APK and put it on the GN2 and runs well. I wrote Rockstar what I did, so hopefully they can fix the issue. They have it in writing I did something illegal. Did not get a cease order or law suit threat. Got a thanks.
If you're that concerned, just use open source applications. There's a license but it's more about distribution channels and the environment it's used in. So you can side load all your want on the Ouya (with a very rare exception(.

Thanks for the replies.
My concern wasn't what would happen if I did get them to work/strip the DRM (It's easy enough to find the apps with their DRM stripped anyway), it was just more of a frustration at developers charging what would be double for the same app essentially, but after I posted this, I came to the realization that, as Rirere said, both being android was irrelevant. Just because they are programmed for the same base doesn't mean they should work on all pieces of technology with that base. OUYA is not a Google product in anyway and so therefore the licence I bought with my purchase has nothing to do with the licence I can purchase through OUYA.
It's a really interesting topic and goes back to something I first thought of when eBooks first came out. Is it wrong to download a copy of an ebook to a book that you purchased? It comes down to the fact that yes, they are two different licences, even if they contain the same information.
Anyway, thanks again, very interesting stuff!

it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.

lovekeiiy said:
it's a topic that gets more complicated as technology moves forward.
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Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense.
Developers see a way to use their skills to make something that they (and hopefully others) value. If you value what they have made and want to encourage creation of similar products, you tell them by supporting their efforts (i.e. buying the "license", donating, etc). It benefits them (food on the table) and you (you didn't have to spend the time to learn the language and write the app but still share in the benefits).
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium

This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.

mybook4 said:
Absolutely. Because often times what technology gives us the ability to do, and what the law says we can do are at odds.
In cases where things aren't/can't be enforced, it comes down to common sense. ...
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Click to collapse
True, some laws end up stinking because they're being applied to thing that weren't even imagined when the law was created. Some stuff just falls into a weird spot where it's illegal, but, probably not mean to applied to certain aspects of life. Like DRM on discs. It's meant to keep people from pirating the material. Yet, I don't think movie studios really expect us to buy a copy for every device we want to view the content on. Although, they would love it if we did. The just don't people consuming the content without paying in some form.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. ...
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Click to collapse
What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.

lovekeiiy said:
What do you call the Google Play store? The only difference is just the scope of the ecosystem. Personally, I don't have an issue with their store. The hypothesis is if an app is on it, it's going to run on the Ouya; maybe not all apps after a few iterations on the console and hardware is upgraded, but most will work. Unlike Google play where it's fairly choatic mess. A recent example is GTAVC. It's support to work on Galaxy Note 2, but Googple Play won't let people with the Sprint get it.
I just assumed the Ouya store would have been more like Amazon one. Yet, what they did makes sense. They did not design the hardware for touch inputs really. They have a basically a trackpad on it. But it's really meant to use a gamepad. How many apps are designed to use one. How many within just games. Just look at what we're seeing with sideloaded apps. Granted Google Play can be filtered. But then, Ouya developers will have to designed for more than one display resolution resolution, or they have to filter the games as well.
Plus, how is Ouya to make money? Hardware only? We see companies that do this and how many they have to make, ie Madcatz. Or would you prefer they just have higher prices for any or all applications that can be used on Ouya to cover Ouya's and Google's fee.
They didn't do anything wrong to any of us who purchased the Ouya. They're trying to make some money. They saw a place where people had a want (play their Android games on the TV) and a need (low entry point for game developers). It's niche market as is.
It's not a great analogy, but you'll get the idea. It's almost like complaining to Microsoft that we can't play form the Xbox that have versions for the PC on the PC with no extra cost. Same game right? Yet, it's a different platform. The Xbox is basically a PC just with more curtailed hardware. The Ouya is basically the same situation. It's just using the Android as the OS and framework.
So maybe the better question to ask, what exactly did you expect, not want, when choose to back it on Kickstater (I'm assuming you did this). I propose you made a bad assumption and seem to have issue with it, rather than adjust and see what happens. If you really don't like it, sell it. Just not going to get $100 for it. But I'm sure someone on XDA, http://www.ouyaforums.com/, http://ouyaforum.com/forum.php, http://forums.ouya.tv/, or many others ouya based sites a Google search to bring up. It'll give you some many towards the Madcatz one.
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Click to collapse
I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.

Nate Rules said:
I actually haven't got one, I am thinking about getting one. I'm just weighing my options. I also own a Moga pro, so I can play with any device. It even has a clip to hook my Note 2 on and play it like a portable game system. I see no reason for the split of ecosystems. It is in our best interest to support companies that are looking out for us. I support Android because you don't see a lot of limitations just to make Google more money. I understand what Ouya is doing. I just don't think we should support the limitations. Think of what the iphone would be if people didn't just buy it no matter what.
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Click to collapse
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.

JLCollier2005 said:
While my OP did pose the question of is it right for OUYA to have their own store and not Google Play (basically) and expect people to buy on both, I have realized that the OUYA and my Galaxy S3 are not the same, they are not made by the same people nor do they run the same software. Are they both built on top of Android? Yes, but one is a Google-based phone and the other is not, hence the reason there would be no Google Play.
The OUYA is, at it's core, a video game system that can/will run some apps. There is no reason they SHOULD include the Google Play store, and I think if they had it would have caused more problems than it satisfied. Do I think that developers should cut a deal to those who already bought their games on their phone/tablet? Sure! But I also wish I could get a discount on my PC for games I bought on the 360!
Also the people at OUYA have outright said that they are open to letting people do whatever they want with the thing, put custom roms, recovery, sideload apps, etc., which is way more than any other console (or phone/tablet for that matter) has ever done!
To further the analogy of a PC and 360, they both run off of Windows, just as the OUYA and S3 run off of Android. The difference, and why we are so spoiled, is because Android is open source, so we feel some sort of "right", even though we really shouldn't. If I could sideload a game bought onto Steam onto your Xbox 360 with no problems would I do it? most likely, but I would never expect that and I think that's what a lot of people expected with the OUYA, a fully Google integrated Android video game console, and that's just not what it is.
And that's not a bad thing.
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Click to collapse
Well, I see where you are coming from. Ouya certainly doesn't have to let us do anything. But there are companies out there that will. I wish we never gave Microsoft so much control over our stuff. I don't view that as a good thing. Also, if Samsung tried to block the Play Store from your S3, would that be ok. Heck No. Everyone would be outraged. It's Android that will make this whole catagory awesome. But it isn't just the console, it's the whole ecosystem. http://www.mogaanywhere.com/about-moga/moga-pro-controller/
This is the Moga Pro. This plus your phone can do anything the Ouya can do. They have their own marketplace. But all it does is show you which games that have been optimized for the moga. It then links you to the Play store. No need to re-buy anything.
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.

Nate Rules;42739819... I also own a Moga pro said:
And this may be where the issue lies with so many. Smartphones and the Ouya were not designed to meet the same needs. Yes, they made both run on Android and share hardware. End of the day, the Ouya was designed to be an Android based game system. Not just a general Android device that can be hooked up to the TV, ie a WiFi tablet with no screen.
You also touched the conflict I've had with the Ouya ever since it was announced on Kickstarter. The redundancy to other devices, specifically Android based smartphones and tablets. Serious, I can do everything on the Ouya with either my Galaxy Note 2 or Infinity Pad tablet. I just don't want to leave permanently attached to the TV. I also hoped that supporting it, it would show there is a market for an alternative gaming system, and maybe get developers attention, which hopefully can bring some good games to Android devices, versus just stuff like Angry Birds or ported classic games like GTA (which are still fun to play).
Nonetheless, Ouya store makes sense for both the consumers and as a business model. Whether it'll be successful, that I won't venture to guess. But it falls along the line I've seen in regards to OnLive. A lot people I know had issue with the face that there was no physical disc. They didn't like that they couldn't control having the game. Not exactly the same, I see that fact that people not having access to games on Google Play being following the same logic. The common theme, I'm not buying any games I can't use on all my Android devices.
That said, I'm not saying people shouldn't have that opinion. It's perfectly valid. Yet, to apply that thinking to any device build on the Android OS I believe is being obtuse.
On a side note, I didn't realize the MOGA could fit the GN2. I went with GameKlip and Clingo Neklit combo and use PS3 controller and Sixaxis Controller for my mobile gaming. I like it. I thought the MOGA could only be used with games that had MOGA code, so you couldn't use it with other games such as emulators. That was my issue with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yeah, the Moga Pro easily fits the Note 2 but it only goes about a centimeter more so I am hoping the Note 3 will fit in it. But it also has 2 modes. It does it's Moga optimized thing which is pretty awesome. And it has the regular bluetooth controller mode. So it works with all games and emulators that can do that.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/20/nvidia-shield-300-june-27/#comments
Just saw this on Engadget. This is the nVidia Shield and in the video it states that their store will show you what games work and then link you to the Play Store just like the Moga.
I may still get the Ouya in hopes that it will get hacked good. But it pains me to support such a company. I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming.
But once the real Android consoles come out, they will have all of the games that the Ouya has and the Ouya will be forgotten. The Ouya 2 will be a failure and there will be a lot of people wondering why they bought games that are of no use to them now. This is the rout Ouya is taking, they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.

Nate Rules said:
... I do appreciate that they are trying to advance mobile gaming. ... they just want to make a bundle off of the early adopters.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing your experience on the MOGA. Very interesting. I don't think I would have gotten it, but they didn't explain that well on their site when I checked it out. I already had the Sixaxias app and extra PS3 controllers by that time.
Actually, Ouya isn't trying to advance mobile gaming. What they're really trying setup is more a platform for the small or independent game developers because many other platforms are entry costs are significantly more. It's because Android is open source, tools are developed, and other items related are also open source. Seriously, the Ouya we all get is a developer console. All you do is just register with Ouya as a developer and it opens up the developers menus--make, and builds. The rest is more just installing Android and Ouya developer kits.
I would say for the general consumer, most aren't going to feel jaded because they're not going to access to Google Play. It's a $100 gaming box that uses Android OS. Since it's so new, most games aren't that special. If anything, I've been disappointed about the controller with it's quality control. The console itself is fine. I'm not holding the lack of quality games against them. It's too new in release and concept. But maybe if they can get the numbers, we'll game developers making more full fledged games, like those on major gaming consoles. Consumers have shown that if it's a fun game, graphics are not a critical via the Wii.
As for the money grab, I'm not buying it. The real money is in the market and the 30% fee they'll get off the sales. Same concept with iTunes, Google Play. I don't know what the fee is, but it's what consoles do with their online markets and royalty fee to put a game on a disc for the console.

The MOGA is a cool concept, but honestly it's not something that is not in the same realm as OUYA. If I wanted a portable gaming system with full controls I'd carry around a DS. The MOGA adds a good amount of bulk and I would not carry it around all the time. In the end, the MOGA would be a waste of money (for me, it's a good concept for some I'm sure) even at $40. I'd rather spend the extra money and get something I can play on my TV. Like the post above me said, I have controllers laying around that I can use with my phone if I really wanted to play on that screen. The point of gaming on my phone is to do it when I least expect it (i.e. stuck in a line or waiting for someone) and the MOGA is just inconvenient
I may not have felt this way while I was in school, where I could stick it in my backpack and leave it there. I know there are probably a lot of people who would jump on getting the MOGA for $40 so I'm not putting it down, just saying they're two different things. One is essentially a bluetooth controller and the other is a home console.
Android is by far the cheapest platform to create hardware around right now, not to mention it's pretty stable. OUYA might be the first fully backed Android console, but it won't be the last and I can guarantee any developer who wants to make an impact in this new sub-genre of consoles will NOT include the google play market. If they did, there console would turn into nothing more than an old phone with an HDMI out port, a dead end when it comes to profit. Either that or they'd end up charging 500+ for it, which I don't think would sell.

Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
Nate Rules said:
This is my biggest problem with Ouya. They are using their relatively cheap hardware to try to lock us into their ecosystem. Which is definitely not in our best interests. Any game that can play on the Ouya can play on out phones and tablets. I appreciate what they are doing, but I don't think anyone should be buying software from their store. I want an Ouya, but not until the actual play store gets on it. Now, I'm fine if they do like Amazon and make their app store available on all devices. But right now, I think we should be looking into micro consoles like the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. which will be all around better than the Ouya and not try any proprietary nonsense. But I am sure it will cost more.
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Hello Nate, this is Jose from Mad Catz, we are very excited about our upcoming M.O.J.O. launch and let all of you check how this new device will be. We worked to achieve the best Android Micro-console solution so far, and I think we achieved it.
Fresh updates will come shortly, by now you can check our new video which reflects our entertainment solution on Youtube: MadCatzCompany.
Enjoy!
J

Nate Rules said:
I was all set to get an Ouya until I was reading on here that Ouya will try to stop any custom roms. Now I am bummed. I hope that you are right and they let us do what ever we want to it.
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That's FUD. Ouya doesn't do a thing to stop custom ROMs. The bootloader is unlocked. I also keep hearing that the recovery mode is crippled, but that's wrong too. You just need a USB keyboard to boot into recovery and to navigate the menus. There's a lot of people jumping to the worst possible conclusions anytime something doesn't work exactly the way they thought it would. Just this week, when people were having trouble installing The Cave, a couple of guys decided Double Fine and Ouya had conspired to implement some form of DRM scheme to block rooted consoles. Turns out it was just a firmware bug that affects large games. The fix was released today.
That said, until the StockPlus ROM finishes their version of Abominable Snowman (or someone else comes out with something) you're better off using rooted stock with Xposed mods for now.
Regarding MOJO and Shield vs Ouya, what they aim to do is somewhat different, and I think a lot of people are looking at Ouya backwards. MOJO and Shield specifically aim to bring Android gaming to hardware that's made for gaming, and I think that's a valid market. If that's what you want, go get those. Ouya aims to make what is a hobbyist and indie console first and foremost, which just happens to use Android as a means to that end. Ouya is Ouya before it is Android, just like Android is Android before it is Linux. The system ROM and OS for most '80s hobby computers was built around BASIC, but we don't think of them primarily as machines for running BASIC. We think of them as a Sinclair, or a Commodore 64, or an MSX machine.

Has anyone else emailed Amazon about root?

I don't think they notice the full potential their device has because people aren't speaking up about it. I think if enough people here email them, asking for them to open the device up for us, they'll see the benefits of us having root access.
I just wrote those one to them.
I sincerely hope this message is read with an open mind by those in charge of the Amazon Fire TV device. Please, PLEASE make sure this gets to the right people who can make a change.
First off, I'm a die hard fan of Amazon, especially ever since I first got my Prime account. I've had issues with orders in the past, as well as products and the Amazon team has always, ALWAYS had my back, which is why I generally do all my shopping strictly with Amazon, even if I can find it cheaper elsewhere, because I know if issue arise, Amazon has my back.
To the point!
The Amazon Fire TV is probably one of the most nifty devices for steaming that has ever come out. It dominates the Roku which I was a huge fan of. The hardware in this little thing is just downright impressive for what it is, especially with it running Android. The possibilities were endless!
So the issue? I'm speaking for hundreds of people, who all should speak up but don't have the time or will to do so.
The biggest benefit of the Fire TV is the fact stated above, it runs Android. We can do so much amazing things with an operating system as open as Android. The problem we have though, as a large community who love to tinker, such as those of us who are part of the XDA community, is you're not allowing us the full potential of the hardware.
The main reason I bought the device wasn't just because it was Amazon backed, and it ran Android, but because it had root access. With that I was able to run my emulators and play NES games and so forth from the comfort of my couch without having to lug out a computer and have the inconvenience of needing a keyboard and mouse to start it all up.
I had the convenience to put a web browser on it so I could run a wireless keyboard to it if I needed to search for something quickly online instead of going into the other room to turn my computer on or find my tablet.
The device ships with a very limited built in storage which is not very good for installing apps. Just installing Bard's Tale eats up almost the entire storage. With root access we could run external pen drives to allow extra storage.
I want you to really think about the potential your device has. You will lose NOTHING by allowing us to root. You will lose NOTHING by allowing us access to the bootloader for custom roming.
Look at Android phones right now, those that are unlocked, like the Nexus devices are among the most popular because of what we're able to do with it. People buy them SOLEY because they know they can Rom it, customize it and so forth.
People see right now that we can't get root access working again and we're losing a lot of options we once had and it's turning people off.
If people see that Amazon took it's community into mind and let us have our root access....people will respect that and buy more of your devices! It's a Win - Win!
I mean really think about it, what are you going to lose? Some people possibly bricking the device? That's their problem, not yours. Warranty is void when tinkering, plain and simple.
Right now, without root access, we're not much better off than owners of the Roku. No enthusiasts bought the Roku because all it is, is a steaming device. Us tech junkies such as myself, bought the Fire TV soley because it allowed more freedom to do more with my device.
So please, I speak for many, open up the flood gates for the community and give us an unlocked bootloader, or at least just make root access easier to acquire!
Sincerely,
An Amazon Junkie
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Spykez0129 said:
I don't think they notice the full potential their device has because people aren't speaking up about it. I think if enough people here email them, asking for them to open the device up for us, they'll see the benefits of us having root access.
I just wrote those one to them.
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Amazon is notorious for locking down their devices extremely hard. I doubt the Fire TV will be any different. And then you have the fact that the content providers don't really want it. Piracy and all that nonsense they like to say.

The added bonus for a rooted Fire TV is Play Store access complete with a fully functional compatibility filter.
Since I actually (re-)gained access to the Play Store,I was able to use my existing acount from my GS7 to install a paid app on my Fire TV that I once had on the GS7 without needing to buy it again.
I want an unlocked bootloader so I can get the multitasking GUI of a modern Linux Distro.
Maybe if the ARM Linux build of Dolphin with OpenGL 2.0 is found,anyone could use Freedreno to actually get it running on a Fire TV!

Id be more or less happy without root if they'd bake in A) Sideloaded apps showing on the menu and B) External storage
Its cool to be able to do other stuff but these are the deal breaks for me. The internal storage on this thing is so ridiculously small, I have no idea how it made it through Q&A. Id have paid the extra $10 for more memory if they offered it.

retroben said:
The added bonus for a rooted Fire TV is Play Store access complete with a fully functional compatibility filter.
Since I actually (re-)gained access to the Play Store,I was able to use my existing acount from my GS7 to install a paid app on my Fire TV that I once had on the GS7 without needing to buy it again.
I want an unlocked bootloader so I can get the multitasking GUI of a modern Linux Distro.
Maybe if the ARM Linux build of Dolphin with OpenGL 2.0 is found,anyone could use Freedreno to actually get it running on a Fire TV!
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Why on earth would Amazon support the Play Store when they have their own app store? The idea is to generate revenue, not funnel it elsewhere.

rbox said:
Amazon is notorious for locking down their devices extremely hard. I doubt the Fire TV will be any different. And then you have the fact that the content providers don't really want it. Piracy and all that nonsense they like to say.
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Ya I get that but there were phone companies that said the same thing, then when people took a stand to go to phones that were unlocked, the manufacturers saw the potential. If enough people bug Amazon about it, it has the potential to make them see the benefit.

Amazon hasn't gotten as big as it is by making poor business choices (Fire phone notwithstanding). We tend to forget that the vast majority of people who buy a fireTV don't have a clue what rooting is, much less its benefits. The bottom line for Amazon is that they will make a helluva larger profit keeping their customers within their own ecosystem than any increase in FTV sales that might occur by appealing to those would prefer a box they can root.