Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
Agree with you lets unleash the beast off this tegra
sent from my Motorola XOOM
I want Square Enix on board. I've gotta play Chaos Rings, Final Fantasy 1,2 and 3 on my iPhone... Chaos Rings was a pretty neat mobile RPG.
i just purchased The History great battles medieval, which i have to say looks pretty ugly lol!! But still I dont mind spending the $6.00 bucks, i might like it later But the more support we actually show, the more developers will jump on board, and create better looking games for Tegra. I would love to play resident evil Zombies, need for Speed hot pursuit on our amazing Xoom devices, but its up to us to show that its worth making games for Android. So if we can spend $5.00 on things we don't need, surely we can spend the money to help benefit us as Xoom owners in the long run!!
MRCANNADY said:
Hey Xoomers!! We all know this, but its worth repeating...some developers are now showing interest in Android/honeycomb tablets...but in order to keep that support, and to get Ipad quality games and developers on board, we must SUPPORT these developers by actually buying their games and apps and stop the bootlegging!! I know it can be tempting, but why would developers want to Support Android if we are not paying..they would just continue to support Apple..and we will be left with powerful devices with no great games or apps to show for it...Lets show Apple that Android is the new king of the block!!!
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I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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i disagree with your statement..regardless if i posted this or not, developers have already mentioned the fact that bootlegging is a problem with Android owners in general. We have to show developers that we are serious about supporting them. So it's good to show that we are committed to buying apps/games, and that developers will be rewarded for taking the time to develop for us. if we acknowledge the problem and speak about about it, hopefully that will get people on board if they want the better-quality games for Android!
Apple has alot of bootlegging. its just as easy to get a paid app for free on ios devices, as it is on android. I think apple devices have more apps because their is more people to use the product. And devs only have to make it for th Device iPhone Ipad ect. But with anroid you have a little harder time because everything has the android os on it samsung HTC motorola ect.
Ask an ios developer who also produces a like android app which generates more revenue and which gets stolen more.
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
I second the notion of supporting devs, but priacy isn't the primary problem. The biggest problem is market share and time on market. As both of those increase, they will no longer be an issue. This said, it wouldn't hurt to try and cut down priacy and maybe for a free app with a donation option somewhere, use it if its a good app. (Not always obviously, but sometimes is a great start.)
Sent from my Xoom the way it should be, rooted and with SD card.
Appealing to people's better nature is about the same as asking for donations. You aren't gonna get too far.
I think the best anti-piracy approach isn't DRM, but to convert it to a service. You can't pirate a MMOG. Not all software can be tailored to this, but most can, especially in this age of 24x7 connectivity. Software is heading in this direction already, with SaS and of course Da Klowd.
The tough cookie is how to extend the SaS model to media, viz movies and music, given their fundamentally "offline" nature of consumption.
Perhaps the way forward for the movie/music industry is to wrap them in software, eg make them interactive. Say, a piece of music can be played at varying tempo of your choosing, or it can be auto-remixed using templates, or it can be sweetened depending on your mood, etc.
Interactive movie is a tougher row to hoe, since movie watching is mainly a linear experience. But once animation gets to the point of achieving photo-realism, then a movie can conceivably be constructed like a game.
A major weakness of games thus far is lack of pathos. It's hard to be scared, or feel sad or joy, when playing a computer game, as opposed to watching a good movie. Perhaps a movie-game hybrid, with real human actors in intermixed sequences, will achieve this.
I disagree with you. The post by the OP is something like "encouragement" to give MORE SUPPORT to Android developer.
1. To talk more about Android apps to friends and family
2. To contact particular apps developer to create Honeycomb version of their Android apps
3. To contact iOS developers to port their product to Android Honeycomb
4. To create great detailed reviews of Android Honeycomb apps / games and spread the word
cwizardtx said:
I've always paid for my apps. Any lack of developer interest because of bootlegging isn't in any way because of me. Its worth noting that even having to post this speaks volumes of the mindset of "general android users" and gives ios devs that much more fuel.
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Agree ...
The thing is for people who do not want to buy, they will not buy anyway.
This kind of thing is mentality. No matter what, they will always find away to pirate.
What I always do here at my work is to promote and specifically tell all my friends about Android apps and why they should not pirate them (some of them do pirating).
Come on, the price is not expensive! Really not expensive! I cannot believe people risking their phone by installing illegal version for something worth like $1 or $2.
However, I would love to have options to PERMANENTLY REMOVE / DELETE certain apps from my Google Checkout account!
Yes, not all apps are good ... Sometimes, I regret that I bought "that" app. And now, it is listed in my Google Checkout account
I could do some kind of "donation" by buying "any" good apps or ported apps from iOS, once a month for example I will do this to give support to Android devs. But yeah, I don't do this now because I hate to have long list in my Android Market purchased apps list.
KerryG said:
This is the same argument software developers have had literally for decades. I used to be a producer at a major gaming company and we always claimed that pirating cost us millions of dollars a year. The fact is that it is completely unprovable that there is any loss of revenue at all. If you make an absolutely awesome state-of-the-art game with absolutely unbreakable copy protection you will sell x number of units. If you sell the same game with no copy protection you will still sell x number of units but a bunch of people who didn't pay for it will get it as well because its easy to copy. So regardless, you still make the same amount of money, but you spent a lot more on the DRM licenses so you actually made less profit in the end.
With Android, the number of people who root their device and install pirated apk's is a hugely insignificant number to the overall Android user base, most estimates put it so low that it isnt even trackable. If you choose to not develop for a platform because of pirating, you are throwing money away.
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Thank you guys for understanding my post. I think Android wants Honeycomb to be more *centralized* like Apple..meaning that developers won't have to worry about making different versions of apps n games since most tabs running honeycomb will have the same base specs. We need let devs know that we are serious about supporting them...The Android family will or has already outgrown Apples fan base..so developers can make money from us but they need to know that most of us will buy their products. You never know who's reading these forums.
I have no idea whether there is a lot or a little piracy on android phones. Unfortunately there will always be a segment of any group willing to justify stealing products or information. Some groups worse than others. My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that. Now being in the video game industry I can attest to piracy especially on the pc. It gets to the point where its almost pointless to produce a variant of a console game on pc. If the drm is too restrictive you get blasted all over th internet. If you don't put a really restrictive drm on them every pc owner wil have bit torrented your game. Very frustrating.
In any case, that does not seem to be the case with android. I think the best formula is to provide a free version to test with limited functionality and sell a full version so the people who want all of the features can get them and support the app devs. Such as docs to go. So long as the programs stay relatively cheaper there not be much incentive pirate.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
>My guess that at least on this forum people understand what goes into making an app and respect that.
In that most here have bought a $600-800 gadget, we can say that the demog for this forum have higher disposable income than the norm. Another thing we can say is that some number here are content producers or business owners, so there is more empathy for app devs. In short, those here aren't mainstream people.
I don't think the economics of software pricing will suddenly be lowered to the <$10 variety (as dominated by current phone apps) for the simple reason that software devs haven't decided to work for less money. IOW, TCO will be the same, because cost of production is still the same. The different thing is that the distribution channel now is more democratized, and there'll be more software as services than as packaged e-goods.
The issues of piracy are well-known; no need to rehash them here. Suffice it to say that it will be the same for tabs as it is for PCs.
Part of the problem with our Open Ecosystem is the crowd that it has attracted.
These people who love and kill for 'Open' have had access and use of FOSS(Free Open Source Software) for years - everything just about has been about FOSS.
It's difficult to retrain the mindset of these guys to pay for any software. I am not saying anyone is stealing, I am saying they don't see the current sets of software worthy of $0.99 - the cost is not the factor here, the mind set of FOSS is.
That being said the 'Free' in 'Free Open Source Software' does not mean free from $$$ - it just usually happens to be that way with most software used on an open Linux platform.
That being said, I have purchased every app that I have tried, liked, and a pay version has been available for - there are 10 or so that I don't even have installed any more because I just don't use them (programs designed for 1.5, 1.6, or 2.1 - that don't need to be used any more because features exist).
I get the 'Support Future Development' theory, and would gather to say that most of who do Pirate software really don't understand how a development cycle works, or how you make it profitable. I'd almost bet that 40% of the windows copies that hit this web page a day aren't legit. I'd also say that number is safe and low.
If you want a Free OS - take a bit of time and learn linux (Mint is as easy and Windows) - don't steal from that mean multi billion dollar corporation. Theft causes prices to rise, denying them the sale causes prices to fall and force them to become competitive.
On a side note...
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
I think the Android market will always be the step child but on the other hand it is filled with enthusiasts and real people that are approachable. It's more like a team (see this forum). I am very proud to be a member of this community and I am very tempted to switch to an Android phone when I next have the option for a new phone. I currently have a jailbroken iPhone 3GS and probably paid more on Cydia than on iTunes Also, I have paid for way more apps on the Xoom (and way more money was spent) than all my iPhone apps together!
funnycreature said:
Amazon seems to be actively pushing the Android market with their "Free paid app a day" promotion. My question is now, do the developers still get the money for each download or are they the ones to say "hey, promote my app by making it free for 24 hours"?
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Yes, they do get a % of the price of the App, I think they receive 20% when the app is listed for the free app of the day - There are some other stipulations to that though. They get 70%? I believe when the app is purchased normally and Amazon keeps 30% finders fee so to speak, covers CC Processing and Amazon over head.
I would gladly buy the apps if i only could. Like someone already posted, apps are not exactly expensive when you consider the price we have paid for our Xooms.
Only problem is that for some reason Google doesn't offer paid apps in my country
I understand that Market Enabler also doesn't work for wifi only Xoom?
Does anyone know a way how i could buy apps?
Related
I read that developers prefer and gravitate towards Apple and develop for Android more out of necessity. I do wish more companies could find value in Android so we could get more branded apps like bank of America, NBA, Facebook, Pandora, etc. I don't mind individuals entertaining themselves with their own development but 9 times out of 10 those kind of apps either don't work or don't serve a purpose. I didnt post this in apps section because my main interest is why developers prefer Apple over google other than the obvious that Apple has a larger and well established following. I see why devs would want to develop for Apple what I don't understand is what it is about google that would turn developers off. Is Android not developer-friendly?
Yes this is partially true at the moment but with Android beginning to gobble up market share like its nobody's business it will be hard to ignore and the developers will have to put more work in.. in the long run Apple is starting to shoot itself in the foot. With lack of the ability to use flash tools to code apps or port apps that work on multiple platforms they are making devs make a choice and in the long run if they continue to practice business this way dev's will migrate and rather make apps for market places i.e. (android/BB/windows) rather than just apple who will be a small percentage of the market especially with the on handset/ one carrier approach... locked in with AT&T until 2012...
Android will destroy the market if this happens to be true... android will be like a plague... Apple simply cannot keep up on one carrier..
newjaruz said:
Yes this is partially true at the moment but with Android beginning to gobble up market share like its nobody's business it will be hard to ignore and the developers will have to put more work in.. in the long run Apple is starting to shoot itself in the foot. With lack of the ability to use flash tools to code apps or port apps that work on multiple platforms they are making devs make a choice and in the long run if they continue to practice business this way dev's will migrate and rather make apps for market places i.e. (android/BB/windows) rather than just apple who will be a small percentage of the market especially with the on handset/ one carrier approach... locked in with AT&T until 2012...
Android will destroy the market if this happens to be true... android will be like a plague... Apple simply cannot keep up on one carrier..
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Yep. It's not just market share either, it's market tempo. Android's rise has been damn near meteoric and completely unexpected. Give the developers a bit of time to figure out what's happening to the market
I don't understand why you think developers are not coming to android. Isn't android just sky rocketing in the last few months? 50k apps and rising. It just takes time.
It always comes down to money. With finite time you look to get the most profit per man hour invested. Realistically not too long ago if I'm trying to pay bills Apple would have been a better bet. Now that Android has hit critical mass the audience is there and I would expect the apps to follow. You can see it happening already with some of the more popular iphone apps starting to show up.
RogerPodacter said:
I don't understand why you think developers are not coming to android. Isn't android just sky rocketing in the last few months? 50k apps and rising. It just takes time.
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Actually it was the article I read that suggested this, and yeah I was a bit confused by it so my first thought was to get some input fom folks here. And the replies have proven helpful so thanks to all. Some more branded apps would be great but I think its just a matter of time. I'm on t-mobile with n1 but luckily the other carriers care about doing business and advertise for Android so its steadily heading to universal popularity.
I find it really *easier* to get Android apps I want from the internet rather than the market. Also I notice a heck of a a lot of spam and useless apps. Without moderation theres a sense of anarchy
I am not a developer, but I was reading up on experiences that developers have with the Android Market.
Then I also came across a website that showed some statistics about paid apps and they were shocking. I can't remember the source right now, but it said that the Apple AppStore is a $200 million business per month, where the Android Market is only $5 millions per month. This is very discouraging for developers who are in it for money (usually companies who have the resources to create Games and more Complex Apps and have the ability to Partner with Services).
One developers said that he only got 23 downloads, in the first month. He mentioned then that over half of them used the 24 hour refund (could that be that those were leachers who downloaded the app and threw it on a P2P channel?), eventually he ended up with 11 sales. One guy sent him an email and said that $4.99 is too much to ask for, which I think is not unreasonable considering that there are many apps in the Apple AppStore that cost much more than that. Whether or not his app is useful or not to most users is sadly unknown by me. But looking at his perspective I think I would start developing apps for the iOS, who wouldn't that wants to make money?
The problem with these figures is that developers will eventually stop developing paid apps and the quality of the Android Market (from now on referred to Market) apps vs Apple AppStore (from now on referred to AppStore) apps will extremely decline. And there will be either many low rating apps in the Market or there will be an increase in the amount of Apps submitted the the Market.
We all want good Apps, Apple found out Apps are the number 1 reason a Plattform has success. Android has Google behind it which makes up for a good amount of Great apps and there are very good developers here that are not in it for the money, but eventually it all comes down to making money when it comes to professional businesses offering a product. Look at the games that are offered on the iOS platform vs Android, you can't tell me that an iPhone 3G or a 2nd Gen iPod has better graphics performance than some of the higher-end Android devices.
Also, are there too many free alternatives in the Android Market that the AppStore doesn't have? There are also many free apps in the AppStore.
What can be done about this? - Please post your ideas, since I am not a developer I am not the pro here when it comes to this issue I am asking for your opinion.
However, I am a business student so I have some insights of how companies will react to this as mentioned above.
The few ideas I have would be:
1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.
I don't think this is something we should worry about.
First, Android is open-source and many enthusiasts give their applications free of charge, which is not the case with Apple's closed OS. That is why about 65% of all apps in Market are free, and only 35% paid. In Appstore, about 70% are paid, only 30% free. Statistics: http://androidheadlines.com/2010/09/app-store-vs-android-market-how-much-is-paid-for.html.
Secondly, you'll find that Market currently supports purchases in only 13 markets while the App Store does so in 90. These numbers will change as time passes by and more markets will be included, but I'm sure that Android will always be a platform with much more free apps than iOS, and that's the beauty of Android.
As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.
In comparing developers for iOS and Android, you have to also look at who they are individually. Sure, there are many apps developed across the board for all mobile devices, but I think the core of the Android Market are individuals who develop apps just for the sake of developing apps. They enjoy what they do and they would do it regardless of profit.
Of course you have a few that try to make money, but I believe they are the exception rather than the rule.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
With this in mind, I believe that Android apps are generally created by a different kind of developer for a different kind of user.
shinji257 said:
As far as I'm aware the developers have a say regarding that 24 hour refund policy. An application can be made to be non-refundable if they choose to.
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We have absolutely no say in whether or not out apps are refunded. If I showed you the numbers of instant refunds you'd puke. And the OP states $200 million to $5 million which is ridiculously off. I believe Google just reported that they passed $1 billion in sales (profit) from the Android Market. Either way, it's way more than $5 million a month.
All that said I personally am happy with what I have been able to do with the Market. I expected a little better on my most recent app but it takes time for people to get word of a new app. That's pretty much the problem I've found. It's hard to get noticed. But I still think it's pretty good. There is a lot I absolutely hate about the Market and a bunch of things I like about it. I'd still rather develop for Android and ironically, none of the apps I have created would even work on iPhone. Two are root apps and one requires a modification of the browser which is not allowed on iPhone (for no apparent good reason, I might add).
I am glad to hear that this isn't as big of an issue as I read online, it would be sad to see a great plattform to be hurten, as you can see with the WebOS.
As for not getting recognized, a few tips I have about that is not to rely too much on people finding your app in the market, but rather advertise it yourself, use your facebook and twitter and even this forum (if the forum policy allow that, I am not sure on that again since I am not a developer). I love the QR codes, I actually see many of them in bathroom stalls and other places, and I always check on them since it's in my curiosity to find out where they get me.
I'm making an extra living off paid apps on the Marketplace.
Oh, and an extra living off free apps with Admob.
So now I'm making 3 livings worth. It's wonderful. I have no complaints.
I mean no offense when I say this, but I believe that the iPhone attracts a very different type of user than Android does. Most people I personally know that use the iPhone do so more out of status and pretentiousness than its own usefulness. Many do not even know the majority of things they could do with the iPhone. Those I know who use Android use it because they root it and do their own modifications, overclocking, etc.
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You're forgetting about Droid users. You'd be surprised how many people own an Android just for status and pretentiousness. It goes both ways. I even know a few people with Androids that don't even know that they have an Android.
1. Google could increase the quality of design of the API and give different APIs to paid vs free Apps.
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Wouldn't that mean closing the source? Or you think people will use opensource platform that only runs free apps over opensource platform that runs both?
I don't think I want closed source OS on my phone, if I did I'd probably use iPhone.
2. Sadly I have to mention it because of all the Leachers and then P2P distributors, remove the 24 hour refund policy.
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Pirates do buy software sometimes, how do you think it gets to P2P networks in the first place? One of them buys it, his friend cracks it and everyone else gets it 4free.
So it wouldn't solve anything, removing the refund would only make legit customers angry if the app doesn't work.
3. Google to hire more developers in house who are paid and create free apps that can compete with the AppStore (which would cost Google a fortune). Maybe then charge a small amount for Google Voice to do some financial damage report.
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I thought google did hire developers and they do create free apps. I don't think competing with appstore is their ultimate goal though, since appstore and iphoneos are completely closed.
Charging for services is something I agree with completely.
They should indeed make certain (not all) services cost money. But they should also keep the software free and open to ensure the quality.
4. Change the Markets way how people pay for apps? I noticed that in the past on my iPhone the decision to actually PAY for an app was much easier and faster for me, I didn't even bother to look for a free alternative.
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It was much easier and faster because apple paid someone to make it easier and faster.
I'm not so sure google is willing to invest money into closed source software, especially when you consider these 3 facts.
1. Closed source software has a limited amount of developers who are working to make it better, faster and more efficient.
2. More developers on a single project means more features, more bugfixes and faster development.
3. Opensource software in general is more secure because everyone can see the source code.
5. Try to Market Android more towards people who are less geeks (who know where and how to find a free solution to the app they need), as in change the look of Android and make it much more simple for the average Joe day to day user (which I would hate because that means remove or hide many of the great features that make Android what I like so much about it and go back to a more primitive system like the iOS4). And tell hardware manufacturers to create more shiny phones.
--> Since most people who don't know how to get free alternatives, or who don't know and don't have the time to learn how to find free alternatives are people that are buying a product for the lifestyle and to show off (iPhone).
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As I don't like being labeled, I think marketing should be focused on pushing Android for everyone, not just specific groups of people.
User knows what works best for him so let him decide what to buy. Wide selection of devices that share the base operating system is great, but user should decide what type of software he wants to use, not google nor apple.
User should also decide what type of service he wants to use and whether that service is free or paid.
Changing the look of Android to make it more simple is something I'd personally hate, but we should always have options.
It would be great to flash an extremely simple android OS for my grandmother's phone for example, while keeping my VNC and SSH on my own device.
Also, don't think there's much difference between android users and iphone users, they're just people anyway. And there's an equal amount of pirated iphone apps and android apps.
Only real difference is about the OS, where one offers you a choice and another forces you to pay and develops restrictions instead of new features.
What are YOUR ideas to fix this issue? - Thank you for everyone posting solutions.
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I don't think there is an issue, devs get paid from pushing ads, users are happy with a wide selection of apps. Some services are free some services cost money. Just my 2c
Hello All,
I have an idea for an excellent app. It is an app that I see having the ability to generate mass amounts of money. I have been waiting for an app of its type to come out for a long while now, but have not seen any. I do not have the skills to create said app, and want to know what my best bet to get in with a dev team would be? Anyone know how to get in touch with the Big Boys of the app world to get this thing going? It is not a question of if, I KNOW this app will be successful. Please help and thank you for taking the time to respond.
- Ron
learn how to code is my best advice
Just find a developer here at xda or on the market that has an app that looks similar to or at least looks like they have the ability to produce something like what you would want, then send them an email.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500
Give us a hint on the type of app: theme-based, music, RSS reader, e-mail, SMS, Global Thermonuclear War for Android
I'm sure a lot of developers are busy and would just like to see if your app falls in their skill set/schedule.
Thanks,
Roots
The low down...
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Well ask any developers here or if u know java try learning android
Well, I'm out! LOL I don't do games.
However, good luck to you!!
If you want to develop a game, be informed that aside from Java you also need to learn some C++ and OpenGL so it can take serious amount of time.
RonnyT24 said:
Well first off thank you all for your replies.
The app is a game though. The best part about it is the potential to touch many people with its genre and simplicity. Its a sports game that has no other game in its category, but that literally everyone on the planet knows of it. It would have the ability to be a head to head type game, online. It would also have a offline single player side, that would allow the user to earn "achievements" and enhance their player. Think of it as Homerun Battle 3D, but for a different sport. I really do see it as a more broad range of money earning potential because of the sport and how much of it kinda relies on the in game character. So upgrades like clothing, hair, jewelry, etc... would be more sought after, just to be different, when facing other players.
Which is why I think World Championship (Name Here)... has the potential to get mass amounts of attention. Im thinking Cross platform love. Maybe cross console...
I honestly wish I had the ability to do this, but starting from the ground up, it is kind of a big project for someone in my shoes. I have everything written out for the app... just looking for some execution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that's badminton
.......
Android blog: blackbearblanc.tumblr.com
Twitter : @jeppefoldager
Google+ : gplus.to/jeppefoldager
Rock band : thedeadradio.dk
Two options hire someone to make it. Or write it yourself...that's pretty much it lol.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
viulian said:
Probably you already know - but I'll mention them here anyway:
a) In startups, people get a share out of the company [as they spend a lot of time risking that nothing will come out of it].
Maybe you are extremely convinced that you'll strike gold, but is still to be seen how the market will react. Good luck anyway
b) You need to hire some lawyers to protect your IP, before signing NDA agreements.
c) Write a business plan, start pitching, get the money from investors to start it up.
Then hire a good company to create it for you and invest in ads, etc.
You need all these, as if you do it wrong, then the game won't take off. But if somebody with more resources [which can afford very good devs] sees the opportunity, they might create a better version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. I like the way to think. I have been doing most of the things said here. Contacted a group from a newly popular app in the store and got some "feedback". Not on the app itself but what it would take to get them to even sneeze at it. Blah... So say I had someone with money to back this... I have been looking around and it appears its impossible to patent or even block people from copying the app down to the most minute of changes making them different. Apparently its easier to get something done about it in the App Store but cheaper and easier to get an app in the Android Market. Before anyone snaps, I hate apple (I use to love them but after the 3gs/Ipad came out and I realized it would be the same incremental updates forcing me to buy new every year just like the Iphone/3g, I have hated them sense).
I just wish I could get EA or someone big like that to even respond to my emails. There really arent that many sports apps worth a damn. This one would open the whole thing up. Actually using multi-touch to do more than button spam. A game where being ranked against the world wouldn't depend on how often you play but, actual win/skill pct. I havent even played the game an I already love it hah.
WTF DO I DO!?!?!
Going after EA or a UbiSoft is going to be damn near impossible. You have to have "name" power (think Tiger Woods or Peyton Manning name power).
They PAY people $70,000 a year to come up with game ideas and then spend millions and 5 years developing it..can you say "Diablo 3"? LOL
Odds are your app is a "been there, done that" concept or is not a viable market opportunity in their eyes.
Now, don't get me wrong; I'm just expressing my opinion. I hope you can market your idea and make millions! I'm trying to do that with every month, every day and every line of code I write.
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Righteous Joe said:
I read the courts reviewed the ruling of phones being legal to root, but then judged that Tablets were a different story. I heard that with tablets to legally be able to root, you have to contact the manufacturer and get permission per ruling. I know this is bogus to many people, and most of you here I assume wouldnt care either way what the courts rule. So this thread is about the legality of the issue, not really meant for debate. I just want to know if it is considered legal to root the Nexus 7, is it allowed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you read this? Doesn't sound right to be honest, not sure how rooting a tablet would differ in a legal sense from rooting a phone, they are near enough the same device after all. Ultimately it is your device that you own so you are free to do with it as you wish, its not as if you're rooting will have a major impact on anyone else. Unless you are caught installing pirate apps which would be considered as illegal.
Writing "I read [...]" and then not following up with a source means you completely lack credibility
Maybe you are referring to the decision cited in these sources
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3556740/copyright-dmca-jailbreak-unlock-mod-ruling
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...pyright-protection-systems-for-access-control
Take your time and read these sources
Also take your time to read up on material by senior xda members on the difference between rooting your device and unlocking your bootloader. It basically renders your "illegal to root" statement completely invalid.
Moving back to the Nexus 7, although the ruling is vague as #@!$ when it comes to tablets, your not forcibly breaking open the bootloader; its practically an on/off switch on the N7--Google is not coming after you.
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Jailbreaking is illegal for iPad.
But unlocking and rooting a Nexus 7 is a whole different story. You don't need a exploit, thus you are not breaking any protection, that is why it is legal.
At least in the EU.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
There is a further distinction that can be drawn. In the case of an Android tablet it is using an OS that is in effect free of any restrictions - so you can "copy the book, change it and publish it, provided you acknowledge the source", contrast this with Microsoft and Apple ......sue,damages etc.
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are incorrect good sir. The jaillbreaking exemption, which is no longer valid, didn't come about from a legal challenge. It was granted by the Librarian of Congress under the normal review process that takes place every three years. Furthermore, rooting phones for purposes of installing and operating legally obtained software is also exempted.
To address the OP, there's a lot of FUD going around about rooting tablets. The factual reality is that absolutely nothing at all has changed. Rest assured that, contrary to the sensationalism from some, the sky is in no danger of falling.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
If rooting a tablet (tablet computer) is illegal, then why don't we get only user account on windows (Administrator account locked) and when we install Ubuntu, why are we not only provided with our user folder and don't have access to anything else? It's exactly the same. I don't know why Android, as basically another one of oh-so-many Linux distros would be the only one, where you are not aloud to access root folders? Linux is open source, and it is your right to be provided with root access.
And since the purpose of root on Android is not installing cracked apps (you can sideload them with enabling 'outer sources'), I see absolutely no reason, why wouldn't it be legal.
Is editing your BIOS settings on PC legal? Again, I don't see why different rules would apply to desktop then to smaller version of PC (which smartphones pretty much are).
You bought the device, it's yours. Even if you decide to take it to another carrier, you paid them, you accepted the contract, you pay penalty in case you cancel the contract sooner. Just because I bought a car in Germany, doesn't mean it's suddenly illegal to drive it in Slovenia.
iOS is different issue. It's not open source, but again I don't see why jailbreaking would be illegal. Of course, installing cracked apps is different, but that's illegal anywhere.
This kind of garbage bugs be to no end... If I buy product A, then I should be able to do what ever I want to product A how ever I want, in regards to electronics. I bought the device, and no judge is going to tell me I can not unlock/root/etc it.
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
CrazyPeter said:
The common belief that jailbreaking is legal is wrong. US Digital Millennium Copyright Act was challenged, and it was accepted that it's legal to "jailbreak" a device for the purpose of carrier unlock, but not for other purpose.
As most tablets don't have 3G and thus no carrier......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
gnustomp said:
Just ignore...how many movies/apps have you pirated...?
Most Android OEMs LET us root. No judge can change that, nor the open-source nature of Android as an operating system.
(Most) GNU/Linux distributions do allow us to login as the root user. Rooting an Android device is the same concept as logging on as root on GNU/Linux. It's there, you're welcome to use it, but don't blame us if something goes wrong.
---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------
How many people that jailbroke their iOS devices have not installed pirated apps? Does anyone _actually_ care about the DMCA?
In other words, you can't stop a hacker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
AFAinHD said:
You know what, comments like you piss me off. I have downloaded my fair share of music, but when it comes to apps I will not pirate them. These developers work their asses off to make a decent app and then put a .99 price tag on them, and you claim that that is too damn expecive? You aren't a hacker, your just a jerk. I have bought over 150 apps on the play store, and I will continue to support the developers that work oh so hard for so little.
Good day sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
when google comes after me for supporting their os with a law suit for changing my devices gui via root would be the end of days. So, yeah won't happen. sony and microsoft just ban people and their mac ip on their console i'd assume if they ever did do anything, they could ban you from market?
I Am Marino said:
No offense, but the overly white knight attitude is just as bad as the pirate attitude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
AFAinHD said:
There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I see at least one reason, (which of course is valid only to some apps, not all of them), and that is usualy true to big games only:
- how long have you today to request reffunds for apps you do not like / want / can not use? 15 minutes? or is it even shorter time now? (I do not know how it is now, sorry, I only use free/ad-supported apps now)
- how long does it takes for you to download 2GB of app data? For me it is definitly a LOT longer time that 15 minutes...
- which one of these (above mentioned) apps offer some kind of trial or limited demo or something? How can you try such apps to find out whether you like it or not ?
Can you see the reason for why not to support such apps? Or at least in the first place? Of coure that it is better (for many reasons) to buy the app in the end if you like it. But you can not tell that if you can not evaluate it.
And you are wrong that these apps cost lest than $1 and thus are cheap (or at least I understand that this was something you were triing to say), most of such apps cost $5-$15, and that can be realy a lot of money if you are not from US, just because you earn $15 per hour does not mean everyone does, there are countries where people works whole day or even week for $15.
Oh, and just to be clear: I do not thing that pirating software is good thing, but sometimes it is the only way how to evaluate something. And you should be allowed do do that, right? Or would you buy a car without (at least) triing to sit in it?
All right, all right, we can just preted that the apps (or game or music or anything) which looks like we want (or need) it does not exists, but to be honest: Can you realy do that? Especially when there is no similar replacement? Or would you just happily pay any price the DEV asks, hoping that it will be usefull to you?
And one more thing:
Lot of people here is stating that court or local law or anyone forbids/encourages something - well this kind of information is totally useless if you forget to tell us in which country/region is that true.
And just to prove my point: there is a country that legaly allows downloading of audio files. Also there is a coutry that allows legaly to use pirated Operating system (namely that was true for Windows XP, not sure if they extended that somehow). Is that information usefull to you? I do not think so, unless you live there and in that case, you should already now...
..
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
AFAinHD said:
Im not trying to be a white knight, I don't care about pirating music and movies, because they are overpriced as hell, but app developers work very hard for something that they put a .99 cent price tag on. There is no reason why you should not support them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that. As a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
This i totally agree with .This can stand for anything rather its music apps or even a drawing of a home done in Cad or even a book.. Think if you spend 2 years writing a Book. Then two days after its released you see it on a pirated site when its being retailed for 13.00 .While you have 2 years worth of bills piled up unpaid.Hoping the book sales. App developers often go thru this same thing. I like most everyone else did download some music in the past.NO longer would I do so . Never software and never reading material. Now if its not legal its not coming in our home or on my devices..If its to expensive the author or developer did not want to sell it.
Bottom line is support the people who Create the things that make your life enjoyable and easier to live. They wanna make ends meet to.. But its not really about the money its about what is right and wrong..
sgtpepper64 said:
I don't mean to derail the thread but since it's been brought up I wanted to address this quickly.
I'm going to try to do this without any self promotion.
It's funny that you say that, as a musician and songwriter who sells tracks at $.99 a piece (and have spent more money on recording equipment and music distribution to never break even), I beg to differ, and I don't have a band helping me out. I put out my albums for the cost of total tracks or maybe a dollar less for that "added value" feeling. Or I let people pay whatever they want thanks to my official online store giving me the ability to set that.
I'm not trying to start an argument or fight, but I just want to enlighten you on this point. Whether it's music or app development, creativity and hard thinking and writing\coding is involved. In both processes there is a lot of trial and error, time and money spent. The pricing of an app or a music track seems to be dependent on the value to the people as seen by the authors. Music seems more standardized whereas different apps will have different prices depending on what they do. But that does not mean there was any less effort or creativity put into music or films than an app. To offset the pirating a lot of musicians at least ask to recommend to friends in hopes that someone buys our tracks to help offset the cost of what we had to pay to put the music out there in the first place.
In the days of filesharing about 8 or so years ago I had downloaded some music. Those programs got old and died, and since then I have only bought CDs or used legal streaming services, typically from those artists I used to download music from. Now that my music is for sale in places I understand the arguments both in favor of free sharing and against it. There's a solution to both.
In either case, in the end we all just want to make even a little money for our creations. I don't think it's logical to suggest that music is overpriced because doesn't take as much effort as app development.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
Zehrfox said:
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
nemosomen said:
You appear to think "Sideload" is a synonym for "steal."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it really" stealing" if it's a game you bought already in one of the other Android stores?
Having said that, I do expect to see some piracy on the OUYA, just because the always on DRM will annoy people enough that they will seek a way to end that annoyance one way or another. Once that genie is out of the bottle, it will be very hard to put it back in. Of course the OUYA is different than the usual consoles...
I'm curious to see if there will be overall less piracy as a whole though, as "casual pirates" simply content themselves with the demo and free to play games available to them. Or if lack of piracy goes to lack of sales as well? This is a very interesting experiment we're embarked upon.
Sent from my Nook HD+ using Tapatalk HD
Zehrfox said:
Ouya Staff needs to realize a simple truth, that most of us already know, and that has been proven time and tme again....
Trying to stop people from rooting, sideloading, modding is ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS and actually causes LOST REVENUE
Please hear me out, before you argue, complain, etc.. I can explain why this is the case. In general you have (2) main types of users, there are always some that are a little of both, but I would guess the majority fits one of these:
Normal User - Uses the device as they get it, and just enjoy the device and its functions, they may want or like other features, but in MOST cases, don't have the knowledge, or time to research, and manipulate the device.
- Example - These users buy an Ouya and play games from the Ouya store, and do not sideload, root, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device if enough games, apps and content exist to make the purchase price worth it.
Power User - These users buy the device usually with the intention of using it beyond its designed or allowed parameters, they want to get everything out of the device they can. They will push it, they will mod it, and use it in ways never thought of before.
- Example - These users will root their Ouya, put the play store on, run XBMC or plex, run emulators, sideload apks, etc.
- Revenue - These users will buy the device "IF" they think they "CAN" push it and get more out if it, making it into the device they really want. And most will buy some games along the way (see below)
Ouya should realize that if they make changes, or implement things that stop, break or hinder the Power Users - THEY WILL LOSE SALES! You can not try to force a power user to behave like a normal user, this is futile and non productive and here is why:
1. They will not stop trying, and in most cases represent more knowledge and time than the company devs have, they will find a way around it
2. If you hinder your device, than these users will simply buy a differnet device that can be manipulated and you lose sales on devices and without an Ouya , how can they buy apps and help advertisement/marketing by discussing them?
3. These Power Users will still probably try out the Ouya games too, and in most cases buy quite a few. Why not, if the prices are reasonable, then its simply faster and easier to spend $1 - $3, than to spend the time/hassle of sideloading it, etc. These Power users have spouses, kids, and friends that will see the device and lots of app/games sales can come from them, even if the Techy would rather sideload.
4. The Power Users will promote and advertise for you! - These are the guys who really use the devices...HARD, if you have a good product, they will brag about it, tell others, etc. These guys are considered reliably sources, people listen to what they say (good oir bad). I have personally discovered and purchased lots of new tech & devices, by first hearing about it on forums like this.
5. The Power Users can actually HELP you develop, improve and enhance your prioduct, they will find ways to fix bugs, work around limitations, etc. They can help you see capabilities that you may not know exist. Utilize their knowledge, time, creativity and ideas.
6. The hardcore guys that won't buy through the store, will not be convinced to buy, just because USB is broke or somehow sideloading is impossible. They will find away around it or use another device. Either way - you don't gain revenue by stopping these methods! - they were never going to buy anyway.
Example: If I think a game is too expensive, say $10, when I feel its worth $1-3. I may try to sideload it, if I can't, I just go look for another game that is similar, but more reasonably priced. I don't breakdown, and say " Oh well, I will have to buy it" - and I am not alone on this. But if I do sideload it and enjoy it, I tell others about it, and they get excited and then they may go and buy it (maybe because they lack the skill or time to bother sideloading it). So if 3 or 4 people buy it because I told them about it, then you just made 4 sales from me indirectly = REVENUE. If I don't sideload it, my only disscussion on it would be - I saw this game but it way too expensive, so I looked and found this OTHER game which is similar and cheaper - try it! - Now, you lost 3-4 sales.
I personally bought the Ouya during kickstarter, because I saw the potential as a Media Server, I have it now, and I am working on that, BUT - I was surprised at how much time I have spent trying the games, and talking about them to friends. I didn't buy it with that intention, but Ouya gets my money and games sales anyway - because of the "other" uses, they made money! I personally, would never have bought it just to play games. But it is an enjoyable experience in addition to my media server.
I saw posts with people saying if you buy an Ouya and only use it for media or emulation, and dont buy apps, then Ouya wont be successful. Well guess what, if I buy a Roku instead, then Ouya wont be successful either! - this way there is a much better chance I will buy some games if I have the Ouya right it front of me! - if I buy a Roku, I would sing its praises, and Ouya loses that advertisement too. Think about it.
My point is you have 2 real markets here, and BOTH can make you a lot of money, and BOTH can help your device become a huge success. Don't waste time and energy trying to prevent one group from using it. Just work on improving your device and its capabilities, look at the complaints and suggestions, and improve what you can, and explain why you can't improve other things. You can't make everyone happy, but this group is much larger than you realize and ignoring/hindering them can dramatically affect your success or failure in this market.
I know that people will yell at my post and say that the company needs to make money to be successful, and sideloading, rooting, etc is in opposition to that goal. I simply don't agree, I have seen this same scenario play out in PC Games, consoles, Android etc. I believe my points are valid, and I have numerous real world, first hand examples to back it up. I really wish companies would embrace these users instead of fighting them (and losing). We can all benefit here. (Sorry for the long post, I need to work on my brevity :laugh
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Best post i ever read in a long time: ) i share your opinion.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
It was my understanding that Ouya was going to be fairly open for just these reasons? Haven't been keeping up with jt to much lately but I recall during development there was at least a commitment to work with modders.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
brandogg said:
Mostly a good post, but excusing piracy is a lame argument. If a game costs $10 but you think it's worth $1-3, then don't buy it and don't "sideload" it. Sideloading is not the same as stealing, but your argument makes it seem that you feel it is. I've sideloaded a couple of things on my Ouya (through Google Play for the most part), but these are either free Apps, or ones that I already paid for and just installed them through Google Play...so I don't want to be lumped into any group that excuses piracy just because the user is cheap. If you really want to support the console, then buy the games, either through the Ouya store or through Google Play.
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If Steam can do it with their Steam Sales why can´t the Ouya? Sometimes things ARE overpriced and people who can't afford 10 bucks could afford 1 to 3 bucks. Is Piracy a good thing, no but its an obvious result to a problem.
Whoever said that there won't be any sales on Ouya? Google Play has sales all the time, I imagine Ouya will too, but give it time - the console has only been on the actual market for like 5 or 6 weeks...
But if "Ouya Staff should really read this! - Important" then the official Ouya forums would probably be a better place for the posting.
Thanks for the replies
To Exnor - Thank You! - your comment means a lot - I was hoping I was not alone on this
Regarding Sideloading: - I did not mean to imply that ALL sideloading is stealing or piracy. I have also sideloaded apps that I have already purchased. The example that I gave was a real example of my own, and I did download the app, from a alternate site and sideload it, instead of paying the store price - in that example, because I felt it was priced too high. Sideloading is at least one way to get apks installed on a device without buying through an app store. In contrast, I have sideloaded a few free apps onto the Ouya, simply because they were not available in the Ouya store.
Ouya Forums: - I am not registered on any other Ouya forums, I may have to look into that to try and get some Ouya Staff to see this info. I truly feel that they are missing a valuable market here (Power Users), and want them to succeed. I was a kickstarter supporter. Feel free to repost this on those forums, if you are a member, and let me know, by posting here.
Thanks to all of you, I sincerely love this forum and the great ideas and information you all share. It has helped me a lot, and I hope my words contribute in some way, because I am not the expert rooter, modder, like most of you are.