Related
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3834.html
Forget it, now and ever...
they are not stuipd to give away WM2005 for free... they'll make us to buy it with new devices... just like WM2003SE.........
If Microsoft is serious about becoming the major supplier of operting systems for mobile devices (and with WM2005 I believe they are) they should definitely make it available for as many devices as possible. As long as the majority of PocketPC phone devices out there are using older versions of WM it will be harder for the operators to push new services that are only available in WM2005. And believe me, the operators do not profit from selling new phones, they benefit from charging for new services. Like push email, which I believe will be finally available in WM2005.
After hearing the news about my Magician, it's now on ebay and I will never buy any device relating to M$ ever again. To think, just ~6 months after it's release it's essentially unsupported is really crap. I've had no lucky, having been burnt previously by Compaq, Toshiba and now HTC I am going to now support the competition.
Unsupported? Relax man.. Just because they're developing a new OS they're not going to stop supporting the last one..
I sense that you're not the kind of guy that want a gadget to play with, but a stable phone. Personally I want to have a phone that I can tweak everything on. I'm rather used to buying cool things and growing tired of them in a couple of weeks, but I wasn't even tired of my iPAQ 5450 when I bought the Magician, and I doubt I'll stop playing with it until I buy my next MS based phone. Magician2?
they should definitely make it available for as many devices as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they already did it.. Windows Mobile 5 is able to run on each mobile device that already runs wm2003..
Microsoft knows it.. BUT..M$ sells the software to HTC.. HTC then determines whether to make a rom for the older models (time and money consuming operation) or make new models (to sell) and forget the older ones.
What way do you think they'll prefer?
Maybe we'll see a magician running WM5 but this will be not an official rom.
The non Official roms are so much more stable.
Loboman said:
Unsupported? Relax man.. Just because they're developing a new OS they're not going to stop supporting the last one..
I sense that you're not the kind of guy that want a gadget to play with, but a stable phone. Personally I want to have a phone that I can tweak everything on. I'm rather used to buying cool things and growing tired of them in a couple of weeks, but I wasn't even tired of my iPAQ 5450 when I bought the Magician, and I doubt I'll stop playing with it until I buy my next MS based phone. Magician2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been down this before. Notable disasters came from Toshiba (dropping support for the e570 completely even when it was still for sale, they only provided SP1 for PPC2002 even though other vendors went as far as SP4), Compaq and now this. In fact I have owned 5 PPC devices before and the experience has not been staggeringly improved from model to model to leave me planning to buy another MS based phone, that's for sure. It's also worth noting that I have an O2 branded model... where's their update??? I ended up putting the QTek ROM on mine, it's taking forever for any improvements to be released officially via O2. Also, I have been reading on places like msmobiles that no Pocket PC Phone is planned to have a WM2005 update released. I take this as the market treating expensive smartphones just the same as they treat the bottom end of the market, which just doesn't wash with me. This thing is marketed as a portable computer and in many ways it is. I refuse to buy a marginal improvement to this PPC Phone in order to just get a slightly newer software experience.
I honestly don't know how you guys can just gleefully sit by, let it happen, and just plan what to buy next. I actually love gadgets, I have a PSP (which has already had a decent ROM update I might add and won't simply be superceded in 6 months ), an iPod (which just had another software update) so I expect more from such cash outlays. If you enjoy the state of things as they are, then all power to you I guess. :roll:
zetsurin said:
After hearing the news about my Magician, it's now on ebay and I will never buy any device relating to M$ ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am just curious.. Why is it Microsoft's fault? I mean, they make the OS and sell it to the individual phone manufacturers to be tweaked for their specific devices. Shouldn't you be mad at HTC, Qtek, I-Mate and any other carrier/company that decides not to create a rom for that phone?
This isn't like a desktop OS that is for sale in the local computer store but was just not made to run on old computers. I am guessing WM5 will run on the Magician (especially those with the 128MB upgrade) however it is HTC that has decided to push sales of new phones then update existing lines with WM5.
Just my .02
Mashie said:
zetsurin said:
After hearing the news about my Magician, it's now on ebay and I will never buy any device relating to M$ ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am just curious.. Why is it Microsoft's fault? I mean, they make the OS and sell it to the individual phone manufacturers to be tweaked for their specific devices. Shouldn't you be mad at HTC, Qtek, I-Mate and any other carrier/company that decides not to create a rom for that phone?
This isn't like a desktop OS that is for sale in the local computer store but was just not made to run on old computers. I am guessing WM5 will run on the Magician (especially those with the 128MB upgrade) however it is HTC that has decided to push sales of new phones then update existing lines with WM5.
Just my .02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup totally agree, only it's weard why they do that i think the magician has less problems with an update of WM5
Hi all,
i read more and more people wanting to sell their brand new exec, BARELY USED... Are people disappointed by it and think it doesn't worth the money ???
I am really wondering what is wrong with it... and i don't have one yet, but i am thinking about getting one... now reading more and more bad reviews on it, dispointment and people selling it after less than a week of use... i am really hesitating to buy it, even though i ve waited it for many months !
What is your opinion about it and do you think it really worth 1000 € ??
Thanks,
Mike.
I would NEVER recommend it for a housewife, but if you are just a little bit tech savvy, AND have a weekend to spare setting it up according to guidance on these forums, it's great. If you do not, you could be extremely miserable with the speed and unacceptable bugs such as BT turning off.
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
As a phone its no good for me just too fiddily, i use it as a data centre and pocket pc with a seperate phone, for this it is perfect
I think its a great little device. Don't get me wrong, if you expect it to have no bugs you will not be happy but as with all new technology, it will take time to iron them out.
In the meantime, I am happy to live with the minor glitches. It wont take long until the Exec is supported better (and also WM5) and this should be when this device comes into its own.
As for the functionality as a phone - I really am getting used to it
xiasma said:
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is spot-on. That's exactly what a few people are doing. Sure there are some people who have been disappointed with theirs, but honestly, what were they expecting? Most people who are complaining are either newcomers to the PDA/Phone world, or they're installing every damn WM2003 software they've ever bought and killing their machines with incompatible software. IMHO
I couldn't ever personally justify €1000 for any phone/PDA device, but for €500 it is an excellent machine. I love mine. Perhaps I'm biased. Just remember that it's an early release of WM5 and there are a few bugs. They'll be fixed in time though and they're not fundamental IMHO.
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
I agree with what's been said so far. If someone came to this even from a Nokia smartphone I think they could be disappointed, as they are phones first and pda/gadgets/whatever second whereas the Universal is more like a high-end pda with a phone that happens to be built in. Even coming from a non-phone PDA (as I did) takes a little getting used to imho, since I used to have a far more cavalier attitude to installing stuff on my ipaq whereas now with the Universal I need to consider "will people still be able to ring me if I install this shareware demo?". Stability and reliability is very important for a phone, but for a small portable computer I tend to think that features and what-can-I-install-next are key. These are almost mutually exclusive characteristics and so finding the right compromise is a fairly personal decision I think - although it will probably divide into those two camps.
Going off-topic a bit, it would be nice if there were a 'phone only' kind of safe mode on the Universal, so if you do get something buggy going on you can set it to phone-only mode until you get round to sorting the problems, safe in the knowledge that at least the phone will work.
What do you think?
jah said:
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the Data 5 tariff - purchase from an O2 shop, not online. You maybe able to buy it over the 'phone.
I think people are after quick bucks as well, to me the Exec is buggy, not because of the device but rather the reliablities of WM5. Performance wise it's decent even with O2 active, my major issue is I can't get most of my most often used softwares to work properly in WM5.
Size wise, I was really surprised as it's not nearly as big as I originally imagined, it's only slightly bigger than my old IIs. I think couple ROM upgrades, I'd love this thing
I am glad you guys started this thread. I too want to purchase an HTC Universal, but was having second thoughts because of the bad comments I read about it.
I do have one question though, "Is it plague with soft resets?" How often do you have to perform a soft/hard reset?
First, my hypocrisy: I have an XDA Exec, I've let the opportunity go by to return it and I'm probably going to persevere.
Next, the rant...
I think it is a complete disgrace for this product to have been released as it currently is. It shouldn't be necessary to spend a weekend getting a consumer device up and running. The bugs in the software are not "kinks", they are key pieces of functionality that simply do not work. Microsoft, O2, Vodaphone would have picked up these within 1 day of normal operation without installing ANY other software and yet they release the product and charge you for it.
Here are some of my most obvious examples:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
This is the kind of experience the world had to put up with when Windows 95 was launched and I thought Microsoft had finally reached a point where they were able to release decent software (like Windows XP), but clearly they're still happy to release rediculously low quality products.
What I do plan to do is to harrass O2 as much as possible regarding this. Make them wish they'd never sold the product because of what it's costing them to support. As MS now have OEM resellers carefully positioned between the end user and themselves perhaps doing this will eventually put pressure on MS to stop insulting us.
What's sad, is that they're doing it again - Palm have just decided to start running Windows Mobile, so it's only a matter of time until the Microsoft monopoly has been extended to PDAs as well. And the crazy thing is that this isn't because of it even being a nice product to use (bugs aside). How can MS (who have been developing software for such a long time) be so completely clueless when it comes to software design. Reading this site confirms that I'm by no means the only one complaining:
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Every time, the support community comes up with nice freeware apps that fill all the holes and on the next release of the OS, all the same holes are there. It's like MS lock all the app designers and developers in a room and don't let them near an end user.
Believe it or not, this post not from an old Microsoft hater, but I'm surely becoming a new one.
There, I'm done...
Dave
It is better than the BlueAngel!!!
I received mine in from O2 the other day and from just running Win2005 and included software, this device really seems to be an improvement over my MDAIII, which I have never yet been able to work solidly in a years's time of playing with it. The build quality is very good. However, my 2 primary 3rd party applications - Goodlink push email and Tom Tom Navigator 5 - do not intall and work. I have been told that the Tom Tom will work if the CABs are transferred in manually, but I have not yet tried that. My Dictionary and Bible programs installed and work fine from their SD chips. But the only thing now is to wait for everybody to tweak apps to Microsoft 2005. This device should start to take off after that starts to occur. However, once HP with their iPaq 6515 upgraades to 2005, then that should be major competition to HTC - even though HTC makes those as well :lol:
There are absolutely, catagorically, 100% certainly, no arguements, LESS BUGS in my brand new WM5 JasJar than any WM2003SE device I've owned previously.
I agree with some points made though, software which works on WM5 is few and far between, and even if you find some which says it works, it may still cause problems...Look at SPB Pocket Plus which slows the JJ to a crawl if you put a storage card meter on your today screen.
My advice is to be patient and accept that because you've bought the first WM5 device, there will be some time to wait until there's software available that's not only "Compatible with...", but actually "Designed for..." WM5.
Very pleased I didn't own a WM2003 device older device then. It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
In terms of other applications, I completely accept that installing old apps on WM2005 may cause problems. I'm refering to the product "out the box".
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
I've already taken it back twice and it's been swapped out both times. There are a number of people on this forum who have had the same problem. Here's one posting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=30591&highlight=
I guess it's possible that if I were to flash to the imate ROM it might work, but then I lose my warrantee.
TBH, I disagree with just about EVERY point on your list
I'm certainly not aware of glaring bugs or omissions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm using an MDA Pro - perhaps the XDA Exec's extra software is the cause for most gripes.
daveb1976 said:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate T9 so I've never tried it on the Universal. Then again, with a full keyboard, why would I?
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use voice command all the time and it works PERFECTLY for me. That's well beyond my expectations. Now I can't say I've noticed your issue with contacts, but then again, when I use voice command it's when I'm not really using the screen or keyboard.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally and utterly disagree
First of all, MS are trying to get people away from traditional Windows thinking of starting and stopping applications. They want to give the perception of everything just always being there and ready. This wasn't an easy decision for them, but I believe it was the right one. OK, for all us techies and PC-savvy types, yeah, we know what's going on in memory. But lots of consumers (your mum, for example) don't. And this is actually a behavior of the APPLICATIONS, not of Windows Mobile. Take a look at the developer's guidelines and you'll see.
Also, if you want to *terminate* an application that was not designed to be terminated using the (X) button, go to Settings, Memory, Running Programs. You can close any or all applications there. And that's been part of Windows Mobile since at least 2002, if not sooner.
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's your experience, but so far removed from mine it's untrue! Then again, I've installed almost nothing extra on my Universal.
[snip]
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, I'm in 100% agreement on these two.
:evil: :evil:
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See my comment about Settings/memory/Running programs. You can use this as a task switcher too. But the idea really is to discourage this kind of Windows NT/XP mindset.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another brave decision for MS is to try to make files easier for consumers to understand. The idea is
"I don't really understand file systems. Why can't I keep all my documents together? In fact, why do I even need to know where my documents are kept? I just want my spreadsheets to be presented to me when I go to Excel; I want my pictures to be presented to me when I go to picture viewer; etc"
MS had a stab at this with Windows 95 and "My Documents". They have abandoned this in Windows Vista in favour or something more like Windows Mobile's "show you what you need when you need it". All these utilities really will become obsolete for all but the most techie users. My companies products are following the same ideology in desktop and mobile software.
sub69 said:
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The T9 PhonePad bug is described in other threads on this forum and I've found that my device has the same problem. However, I don't personally find this in any way restrictive since the Universal has ...umm... a full, usable, hardware keyboard.
All these PDA/phone machines have been best after several experiments with their configuration. I did a hard reset this morning so that I cleaned off all my experimental applications' legacies and now I'm running trusted, tested apps that work well and bring huge positive benefits.
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
SiliconS said:
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I completely disagree. In fact, of almost ALL the 100s of computers I've used and owned, I'd say that it is less true of the MDA Pro than it is any other computer (maybe except the Z88)
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll agree with all of that though
I love my 8525 to death and I had thought it would fulfill just about any need I could possibly want in a cell phone (especially considering the impressive modding capability). Surprisingly, I discovered that it is lacking in one area: web browsing. This became more pronounced after I used the Xperia X1 for the first time.
Right now, the phones I'm considering are:
1) Xperia X1
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900
4) Toshiba TG01 (*drools*)
5) Let me cut it short: Basically any phone with 480x800 res or higher
So after mulling it over and doing an enormous amount of research, two particular points are sticking out in my mind: the importance of PPI (pixels per inch) and processors. To break it down:
1) I've been informed that screen clarity depends a lot on PPI and, basically, the more ppi you have, the better. Is this true?
2) There have been issues in the past regarding HTC and Qualcomm drivers. Is this still an issue in new phones?
Thank you to all.
Out of all those phones, the only one you'll one you can buy right now, and likely for quite some time is the X1, so that should make your decision much easier. And by the time those devices make it to the market, you'll likely be drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks.
Oh, and yes, Qualcom still sucks in all newer devices. Either use Core Player or just avoid movies altogether.
FYI: You clearly have an apetite for WVGA, just be aware, that many programs aren't compatible with that resolution. For example, the commerically available version of TomTom doesn't work.
Oh, I wish it made my decision easier, but as a traditionally patient guy, I'm all too willing to wait for the other phones. You also might be right about me drooling over the Touch Pro 3 leaks when those phones make it out, but I certainly hope not. I was completely happy with the 8525 in virtually all aspect, save for the web browsing experience, so if I could mitigate that, I might be able to hold the gadget beast inside of me.
It's also a shame about the Qualcomm thing. It wasn't just movies that I was actually concerned with, but general usage. Lack of drivers essentially made everything slower than it should be, doesn't it?
Lastly, from my usage of the Xperia X1, I realized the potential for problems concerning the screen. However, the only problem I encountered so far is with Java games. Everything else worked fine. I got Tomtom to work perfectly fine too (well, I got look fine. I'm still tweaking to get the GPS to actually function).
Well I say either go for the X1 or be patient until after the Touch Pro 2. I honestly feel that the TP2 will be an end of cycle device.
1. Hopefully WM7 will be making its debut maybe 2 to 3 Quarters later. (We have no idea what WM7 may require storage wise or even screen wise...capacitative?)
2. We are at the limit for the SDHC spec with 32GB cards not too far off, we will likely see devices carrying the SDXC spec next year.
I just have this feeling that unless you get a nicely priced carrier subsidized TP2, you will likely fell upset about having spent so much money if the TP2 isn't seemlessly upgradeable in the future. Besides, the TP2 is more of a software upgrade to current devices as it carries similar specs with the exception of a larger screen.
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cosidering that you have a "buissness oriented device" and assuming you want to keep on that "line", I´ll erase from the list:
1) Xperia X1 ERRASED
2) HTC Touch Pro2
3) Toshiba G900 ERRASED
4) Toshiba TG01 ERRASED
So same as you, I am comming form an exelent device: UNI, also buissness oriented and the only one I can see on the sooner future is TP2
More similar to Hermes than to Universal
I have patience...
Meh, it doesn't really bother me whether the phone is 'business oriented' or not. Basically, when I purchase a phone, I look for three things:
1) Specs
2) Design (i.e. keyboard and frontal hard buttons)
3) OS
So long as all of the above fits my requirements, I'm good to go. Of course, if the device is meant as a successor to the TyTN, then it's all the better as it would make the transition easier (I suppose), but I don't think it's that important.
To be honest, I don't understand the difference between a 'business oriented' device and otherwise anyway. So long as the OS is Windows Mobile, it seems to be most anything a 'business oriented' device is capable of is also possible on another phone, save for the hardware specific things, such as GPS or FM radio, of course.
8525Smart said:
Thanks for responding, Sonus.
Concerning the TP2 being an end of cycle device, I'm not sure what that is. Do you mean it's the last device HTC makes before it starts developing devices with better specs? If so, I guess it's entirely possible. HTC seems to be big with Qualcomm processors, and Qualcomm has introduced those new Snapdragon processors. Of course, keeping up with new SD formats and Windows Mobile is important too.
I'm also not certain what you mean by 'seamlessly upgradeable'? Personally, I think the Touch Pro 2 sounds like a great phone. However, as I said before, I am a patient guy. I would be all too willing to wait for the new HTC devices (or whatever other company's devices), but it would make it a lot easier to start waiting if only HTC announces something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey smart, you got my points exactly. I think the TP2 generation of devices will be the last with the 528Mhz Qualcom processor, and maybe the last of devices before SDXC cards start being produced. As for "seamless upgrades", I just mean attaining a bug free upgrade path to WM7. You have a Hermes, so I am sure that you are familiar with the issues and sometimes persistant bugs that present themselves when upgrading to ROMs with newer OS's.
If you want a look at the future according the HTC (at least for 2009) look here:
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_2009_roadmap_leaks_in_pictures_seems_quite_promising-news-733.php
Sonus,
I see what you mean now and you're right. I did my fair share of upgrading/changing OSes on the Hermes and I also read a few threads concerning why some things simply can't work, so I am somewhat familiar with the importance of updated hardware. WM7, I believe, is supposed to be a milestone, so I think it's all the more important to keep a phone capable of upgrading to that.
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Nonetheless, thank you for the link. It's enjoyable to see HTC's plans for the future and where XDA may go as a result.
8525Smart said:
Concerning HTC's roadmap, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by some of those phones. It's a bit difficult to follow the roadmap, but it seems to me the most likely device to get a specs upgrade is the Thoth and possibly the Topaz. It may just be my interpretation, however.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update on the list (This time w/specs!):
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=3428
Another thanks, Sonus. From the looks of things, the Firestone is the next HTC phone to look out for, though I'm disappointed it's only clocked at 600Mhz instead of 1Ghz.
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!
I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.
I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.
You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.
So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.
Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.
How are they different?
seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.
Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.
clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.
I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.
But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.
I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.
so we all know HTC is in trouble. The cellphone market is constantly moving forward and looking to the future for their next big thing. I, however, suggest that htc should take a page out of their old book and come out with a next-gen hd2. When I think about freedom in a handset, I think about this phone first and THEN android's early days. We live in a time where mainstream phone manufacturers give us a product and thats that whether we like it or not. my last 4 android phones weren't able to be rooted and so I gave up altogether. I'm currently an iphone user. Not because I think it's better but because I just gave up. I am not happy with todays offerings. I feel like phones should be more advanced now. I mean yeah there are very nice phones today with tiny bezels and crazy specs but I'm speaking more from a OS perspective. Yes pixels are nice, yes samsung has amazing phones but at the end of the day they're only still running android. Android has evolved but, in my eyes, just barely. It's still the same at its core. Back on topic, I think it would be in everybody's best interest if htc were to look back to this phone for the future. This time next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the HD2 and they're in a very troubled state right now so why not? HD3, the all new HTC HD, whatever they may call it is irrelevant as long as they just do it. The smartphone market is stagnant right now, there's countless evidence to support this claim. Manufacturers should start focusing more on operating systems than bezels. It is clearly inevitable that there will eventually be new contestants in the duopoly we have right now.
I'm not sure how to approach this but let's just put it like this. If i had it my way; it's November 2019 and HTC releases the hd3, theres a whole back to the future campaign. they trademark the phrase "the future is in your hands." it's on billboards and ads with the phone sitting comfortably in a pair of palms. there's black hands, white hands, brown hands, robot hands to show that this is the phone for everybody. it runs android by default but it is meant to run other operating systems. HTC has invested money into smaller os manufacturers and home-based devs to develop/port their existing OS. they run competitions and such for people to show off their OS offerings. Not for them to purchase and license but to show that the whole movement is about the people and their freedom phone. the device is a tinkerers dream. The app stores are limited but that isn't the point. We're approaching a time where AI is slowly eliminating the need for 6 billion apps. XDA is the go-to spot again. We need a more capable mobile OS and why shouldn't HTC be one of the first to push that with their hardware. I know microsoft will be putting out the surface phone soon and I'd be willing to bet it will run full windows 10. Why not have a legitimate early competitor to push the agenda? If I want to run ubuntu desktop or kali linux on my phone fluidly why can't I? This may very well be a niche product but it will be huge for developers and will most definitely be a big conversation. That alone would gain some traction. hardware revisions thereafter could include multiple usb-c connectors, maybe an x86 architecture, maybe modularity, maybe this maybe that. I just dream of a pocketable device that would truly feel free of restraints and I believe HTC is the one for the job. Manufacturers are always giving us what THEY think we need instead of actually leaving it up to us. Ask any savvy person what the most legendary smartphone was and they'll say the HD2, ask them why and I guarantee every answer is the same. This is something I am passionate about and I haven't slept yet and I know the format is all messed up but I just wanted to put the idea in peoples heads.
I second this motion. The HTC HD2 Leo I own is a beast. I will admit that it was frustrating at first. I must have soft bricked it half a dozen times messing with settings and software I had no business touching as I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Then I found some good tutorials and finally, the promised land. XDA DEVELOPERS FORUM.
I found that the HD2 was an incredibly versatile and robust piece of tech. I did soft brick it again a time or two, but always I was able to rejuvenate it. The downfall, I believe was Microsoft ending the 6.5 os right after release. That coupled with the power house of android and the backing and resources it had soon overshadowed the HD2. But quite a few kept a place in there heart for it. The capability of the device and the developers to modify and utilize the platform to do extraordinary things has, in my opinion, never been matched. HTC needed a flagship. They were in the pack, but had a desire and opportunity to pull to the forefront. With the HD2 they did surge ahead. They didn't fail us, the market and consumer failed them. Too many got overly frustrated as they failed to understand the accessibility and basic root to pathway to app to accessories. The various models also caused consumers, who were hearing of this wonder of Google and Android, some with the apple iPhone in hand and its "friendly yet restrictive" os, and they rage quit on the HTC.
After reading the above post, I have thought long and hard on what was, what is, and what could be for HD devices. I have several interesting observations.
1. The versatility of the HD2 opened it up to power-users, techs, devs and wide eyed dreamy technophiles like myself. The ability of the HD2 to use Java, WinMo, PPC software, Android and linux gave so many a highly adaptable device for personal preference, personalization and experimentation.
2. The HD2 could act as a PDA, Phone, PC, Diagnostic tool, Microsoft Office companion and controller... The list goes on. Yes you can do all those things with an android or apple device now, but the ability to adjust the hardware settings, application features, information export and format has been greatly handicapped by a gap between developer abilities an end users abilities. Rooting helps with this, but rooting itself is a tricky and iffy prospect. I have noticed that certain areas of focus and purpose for applications have software that does not cover everything desired, or is entirely too broad and basic to be fully accurate. I have found myself and others needing 2 or three applications to accomplish with accuracy what could be done with one openly versatile and layered 'package'.
3. The HTC HD2 is still capable of competing with most of the low to mid level devices on the market today. I can hear some of you rolling your eyes, but I stick by that statement. Even with some outdated components and slower buss and cache speeds, it can hold its own. I attribute that to the versatility.
4. The vision of the HTC HD3 MODULAR COMPONENT ENGINE. Yup. I may be insane after all. Yet my madness has reason, I am just not linguistically skilled enough in Techaneeze to put it to words. Basically, the device by itself is a fully functioning phone with the latest capabilities and trends. The average user will be able to use it straight out the box, though with multiple new options such as dual OS preinstalled, dual SD card slots, Mega More than anyone needs camera resolutions, speakers that actually work loud and clear, maybe predocked gizmos, chochkies and dodads like Bluetooth earpiece(beats me on the design so far), NFC tags or keyring fobs(whatever those are called), a hidden micro sim/sd card compartment, an actual headphone jack, plasma lighter/taser, multi use survival card, toothpick, tweezers, det-cord crimper. OK OK i am being silly, but its late and I am hungry.
The added wow factor is that the HD3 is a driver/interface for a modular expansion platform that can be customized for various trades. IT tools like frequency counter, component tester, etc.; scientific lab tools and sensors; in the field career specific tools for geologist, meteorologist, anthropologists, etc.
So far, i just have envisioned a framework buss with plug in ports for specific electronics and sensors, etc.
I will try to expand on this idea, but I am now at the point that I believe I need to poll the public. I will attempt to create an effective poll(s) at a later time when I have all cylinders firing.
Good night, and good luck!
I just stumbled on to this forum browsing xda in the new year..and as each year passes i feel sad that these HD2 forums get more and more silent ( I bot the HD2 in 2009, the year of its launch) ...strange this phone got so many people to love their device like no other, I guess people remember the joy they felt when they used it and the fact that it was probably the most modded phone on the planet....fact that it ran android marshmallow not too far back is testament to the loyalty of developers and users of this phone who never gave up on it, kept it alive and relevant .... I guess we all miss the extreme flexibility of our beloved device today, of course also miss the huge flutter of activity on the xda forums for this phone, the forums were always buzzing with something new ( ROM, app ) the phone could run or some feature that was finally made to work...so so great to see the above 2 posts in 2018, good to see activity and that people still remember this great device and are still hoping it will be reborn in some form in the future, cheers to that!!!!
Same sentiments here. I bought the hd2 on release in 2009 and it was a lovely device. I remember installing the latest Android ROMs and kernels on it, was so fun. We're at a point if perfection though, most modern devices run at well you hardly need to tinker with them anymore. My Galaxy note 9 and Huawei mate 20 pro are proof to that, these 2 phones are Android in it's perfection but the hd2 will always have a place in our hearts!
I am still amazed to see what the HD2 achieved.. I also bought it in 2009.. had loads of fun flashing it (or may i say them, i ended up having 4 of them at the same time ) whith android and windows.. I still have 2 or 3 of them laying around somewhere.. was an incredible device that gave loads of fun