Database Users

bad news about final rom 2003 from o2

I got this email from o2 asia.So may be we don't have a chance to up wm2003 with final release from o2,how about qtek does anybody know about it?
O2's position on Pocket PC 2003
O2 Asia will not be deploying the Pocket PC 2003 upgrade. The Pocket PC 2003 upgrade is subject to the original design of the hardware and the level of integration of the device, particularly between the phone and pda functions. The O2 xda was not designed to support Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and therefore could not take advantage of some of the most important feature upgrades inherent in Pocket PC 2003. After careful evaluation of the costs and benefits and the relatively low impact on the user experience of the current xda version, we have decided not to deploy this upgrade. We are however pleased to announce that we will be introducing significant new features with another upgrade which will include the wireless modem, SIM Toolkit support and the SMS caller ID fix.

Can't be... I hope....
the part about Bluetooth and WiFi is bull****, look at the low-end ipaqs...
They don't wanna tell us, that all WM2003 devices will need to have WiFi and Bluetooth, do they?

If "The Pocket PC 2003 upgrade is subject to the original design of the hardware" how come I and many others are happly running it on our little old xda's :!: Hmmm, maybe they are trying to say it will only be available on xda 2, it would be cheaper for them in the long run.

Its a Bad News
All,
I got the problem after i upgrade PPC 2003, may be my mistake I erase the bootloader. This week i went to KL and I go to XDA helpdesk in Malaysia but i get disapointed with them... they didnt do anything with my Device they can't install the bootloader software. and about this news it's sucks :twisted: i feel like change to another device because the donn't have good support after sales service.

Oh no,
I sure hope O2 releases a version in europe!

bigies said:
We are however pleased to announce that we will be introducing significant new features with another upgrade which will include the wireless modem, SIM Toolkit support and the SMS caller ID fix.
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Click to collapse
I may be missing something here - but basically are they saying they are going to provide a small 2002 update, almost a year late, that will provide functions that should have been in the orignal ROM. Functions that many people have already installed because of the generosity and skills of the many enthusiasts here that write killer free aps!!

If it is true
Maybe O2 try to concentre on the XDA- 2( Big competitor SS i700)
Infact only more than 4 months new XDA should be introduced in the market
No time for old XDA- more than enough- 64 000 devices saled in total from May 2002
That why do not wait something special in the next upgrade maybe the Special Developers- ROM 1.2 the best one
This is trading plan, new products- new price-new features -hopefully future- more customers -more profit
It is meaning, we have to change new device for speed, D.Camera, bluetooth, WIFI and WM2003 ??? in the end of this year
Any ideas?

If it is true
Maybe O2 try to concentre on the XDA- 2( Big competitor SS i700)
Infact only more than 4 months new XDA should be introduced in the market
No time for old XDA- more than enough- 64 000 devices saled in total from May 2002
That why do not wait something special in the next upgrade maybe the Special Developers- ROM 1.2 the best one
This is trading plan, new products- new price-new features -hopefully future- more customers -more profit
It is meaning, we have to change new device for speed, D.Camera, bluetooth, WIFI and WM2003 ??? in the end of this year
Any ideas?

Jayman said:
bigies said:
We are however pleased to announce that we will be introducing significant new features with another upgrade which will include the wireless modem, SIM Toolkit support and the SMS caller ID fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be missing something here - but basically are they saying they are going to provide a small 2002 update, almost a year late, that will provide functions that should have been in the orignal ROM. Functions that many people have already installed because of the generosity and skills of the many enthusiasts here that write killer free aps!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not that, because the latest software upgrade to 3.17 and rsu to 4.21 is in fact meant for the UK model. What they're saying is that they'll be releasing the Asian model's upgrades soon. With Asian Carriers Auto-config. Thats my take on it. In the mean time, I did my upgrade last night to WM2003, pretty happy except for a few minor details...

Let's start the pressure for WM5.0!!

I think it's about time we start putting pressure on HTC for a WM5.0 upgrade!!
With WM5.0 devices in JAM's form factor emerging on the market soon (eg ETEN M600) would you consider trading your JAM? The same applies for existing devices with a definite upgrade path to WM5.0 (e.g. ETEN M500).
Let's get a huge vote and send the link to HTC & other relevant parties!

That's entirely useless, mate. Their interest is to sell new devices and not to extend the lives of older ones. You may as well write to Microsoft and Intel and request Longhorn to run on Pentium I :lol:

Their interest is also not to lose customers to their competitors. We can see it happening right here in this forum. And what about new customers? Would they go for the JAM with no WM5 upgrade or for the ETEN M500 with a promised WM5 upgrade?
The Longhorn on Pentium1 comparison doesn't hold. WM5.0 CAN RUN on the Magician ... Longhorn on Pentium 1 cannot.

You place too much value on customer retention. The common perception in these small tech companies is that the cost of customer retention outweighs the benefits. So they probably don't care too much if you buy your next wm device elsewhere.
BTW, your poll is telling them that if they produce a new device with WM5, you'd happily upgrade to it which is exactly what they want. That gives them even more reason to not make WM5 available on current devices.

when you bought your JAM was there a note saying that it will have a WM5 upgrade when its released? NO? well dont complain.
When you buy a phone you need to buy a new one to get the new OS, why should it be different in the ppc pe world?
Would you prefer companies to spend time trying to offer you a MAJOR upgrade for an older device rather than working on innovative new devices?? I dont know about you but i prefer the second.

parisp said:
When you buy a phone you need to buy a new one to get the new OS, why should it be different in the ppc pe world?
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Click to collapse
Because PPC by comparison to a mobile phone is an open and extensible platform. And because it CAN be done. WM5 works on the JAM so it is really nothing more than a matter of releasing it.

Hi all,
I'm a lycky one that have a Qtek 2020.
I'm using WM5.... so I don't give a **** if MS only support new devices or even, only the new devices came with MW5.
When we bought a PC we can choose what OS we use, but in PDA this is not true, but I think in future we'll be able to choose.
Bye

The fact that E-TEN are releasing a WM5.0 upgrade for the current M500 model has already made some people sell their Magician for an E-TEN. They might like the E-TEN service and so on and never come back to HTC. Their next device will probably be another E-TEN of course!
It's very hard to get a customer, not so much to lose it.
And if I wanted a normal mobile phone I would have bought a mobile phone. I bought a Pocket PC phone with an open platform where most of the software written for it is updated on a regular basis.

I think in the scale of things most people upgrade for the device not the operating system, we all have to remember that this operating system is made by Microsoft so I personally have no great need for an upgrade to an operating system that will probably give me problems daily. On the other hand I love anything new or different so yes I to want that upgrade. If HTC gives us the upgrade do you really think it is going to stop us upgrading to a new device...... NO..... If we like it, then we need it, wether we can afford it is errelivant, we must have it at all costs.
Nokia offers software upgrades for free to there high end phones and I think it is HTC's responsabilty to those people like myself that have just bought a new PPC phone to release an upgrade, release it to all current model phones.

people disapointed by the Exec ?

Hi all,
i read more and more people wanting to sell their brand new exec, BARELY USED... Are people disappointed by it and think it doesn't worth the money ???
I am really wondering what is wrong with it... and i don't have one yet, but i am thinking about getting one... now reading more and more bad reviews on it, dispointment and people selling it after less than a week of use... i am really hesitating to buy it, even though i ve waited it for many months !
What is your opinion about it and do you think it really worth 1000 € ??
Thanks,
Mike.

I would NEVER recommend it for a housewife, but if you are just a little bit tech savvy, AND have a weekend to spare setting it up according to guidance on these forums, it's great. If you do not, you could be extremely miserable with the speed and unacceptable bugs such as BT turning off.

I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.

As a phone its no good for me just too fiddily, i use it as a data centre and pocket pc with a seperate phone, for this it is perfect

I think its a great little device. Don't get me wrong, if you expect it to have no bugs you will not be happy but as with all new technology, it will take time to iron them out.
In the meantime, I am happy to live with the minor glitches. It wont take long until the Exec is supported better (and also WM5) and this should be when this device comes into its own.
As for the functionality as a phone - I really am getting used to it

xiasma said:
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
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This is spot-on. That's exactly what a few people are doing. Sure there are some people who have been disappointed with theirs, but honestly, what were they expecting? Most people who are complaining are either newcomers to the PDA/Phone world, or they're installing every damn WM2003 software they've ever bought and killing their machines with incompatible software. IMHO
I couldn't ever personally justify €1000 for any phone/PDA device, but for €500 it is an excellent machine. I love mine. Perhaps I'm biased. Just remember that it's an early release of WM5 and there are a few bugs. They'll be fixed in time though and they're not fundamental IMHO.

@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?

I agree with what's been said so far. If someone came to this even from a Nokia smartphone I think they could be disappointed, as they are phones first and pda/gadgets/whatever second whereas the Universal is more like a high-end pda with a phone that happens to be built in. Even coming from a non-phone PDA (as I did) takes a little getting used to imho, since I used to have a far more cavalier attitude to installing stuff on my ipaq whereas now with the Universal I need to consider "will people still be able to ring me if I install this shareware demo?". Stability and reliability is very important for a phone, but for a small portable computer I tend to think that features and what-can-I-install-next are key. These are almost mutually exclusive characteristics and so finding the right compromise is a fairly personal decision I think - although it will probably divide into those two camps.
Going off-topic a bit, it would be nice if there were a 'phone only' kind of safe mode on the Universal, so if you do get something buggy going on you can set it to phone-only mode until you get round to sorting the problems, safe in the knowledge that at least the phone will work.
What do you think?

jah said:
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
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Click to collapse
It's the Data 5 tariff - purchase from an O2 shop, not online. You maybe able to buy it over the 'phone.

I think people are after quick bucks as well, to me the Exec is buggy, not because of the device but rather the reliablities of WM5. Performance wise it's decent even with O2 active, my major issue is I can't get most of my most often used softwares to work properly in WM5.
Size wise, I was really surprised as it's not nearly as big as I originally imagined, it's only slightly bigger than my old IIs. I think couple ROM upgrades, I'd love this thing

I am glad you guys started this thread. I too want to purchase an HTC Universal, but was having second thoughts because of the bad comments I read about it.
I do have one question though, "Is it plague with soft resets?" How often do you have to perform a soft/hard reset?

First, my hypocrisy: I have an XDA Exec, I've let the opportunity go by to return it and I'm probably going to persevere.
Next, the rant...
I think it is a complete disgrace for this product to have been released as it currently is. It shouldn't be necessary to spend a weekend getting a consumer device up and running. The bugs in the software are not "kinks", they are key pieces of functionality that simply do not work. Microsoft, O2, Vodaphone would have picked up these within 1 day of normal operation without installing ANY other software and yet they release the product and charge you for it.
Here are some of my most obvious examples:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
This is the kind of experience the world had to put up with when Windows 95 was launched and I thought Microsoft had finally reached a point where they were able to release decent software (like Windows XP), but clearly they're still happy to release rediculously low quality products.
What I do plan to do is to harrass O2 as much as possible regarding this. Make them wish they'd never sold the product because of what it's costing them to support. As MS now have OEM resellers carefully positioned between the end user and themselves perhaps doing this will eventually put pressure on MS to stop insulting us.
What's sad, is that they're doing it again - Palm have just decided to start running Windows Mobile, so it's only a matter of time until the Microsoft monopoly has been extended to PDAs as well. And the crazy thing is that this isn't because of it even being a nice product to use (bugs aside). How can MS (who have been developing software for such a long time) be so completely clueless when it comes to software design. Reading this site confirms that I'm by no means the only one complaining:
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Every time, the support community comes up with nice freeware apps that fill all the holes and on the next release of the OS, all the same holes are there. It's like MS lock all the app designers and developers in a room and don't let them near an end user.
Believe it or not, this post not from an old Microsoft hater, but I'm surely becoming a new one.
There, I'm done...
Dave

It is better than the BlueAngel!!!
I received mine in from O2 the other day and from just running Win2005 and included software, this device really seems to be an improvement over my MDAIII, which I have never yet been able to work solidly in a years's time of playing with it. The build quality is very good. However, my 2 primary 3rd party applications - Goodlink push email and Tom Tom Navigator 5 - do not intall and work. I have been told that the Tom Tom will work if the CABs are transferred in manually, but I have not yet tried that. My Dictionary and Bible programs installed and work fine from their SD chips. But the only thing now is to wait for everybody to tweak apps to Microsoft 2005. This device should start to take off after that starts to occur. However, once HP with their iPaq 6515 upgraades to 2005, then that should be major competition to HTC - even though HTC makes those as well :lol:

There are absolutely, catagorically, 100% certainly, no arguements, LESS BUGS in my brand new WM5 JasJar than any WM2003SE device I've owned previously.
I agree with some points made though, software which works on WM5 is few and far between, and even if you find some which says it works, it may still cause problems...Look at SPB Pocket Plus which slows the JJ to a crawl if you put a storage card meter on your today screen.
My advice is to be patient and accept that because you've bought the first WM5 device, there will be some time to wait until there's software available that's not only "Compatible with...", but actually "Designed for..." WM5.

Very pleased I didn't own a WM2003 device older device then. It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
In terms of other applications, I completely accept that installing old apps on WM2005 may cause problems. I'm refering to the product "out the box".

daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
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What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?

I've already taken it back twice and it's been swapped out both times. There are a number of people on this forum who have had the same problem. Here's one posting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=30591&highlight=
I guess it's possible that if I were to flash to the imate ROM it might work, but then I lose my warrantee.

TBH, I disagree with just about EVERY point on your list
I'm certainly not aware of glaring bugs or omissions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm using an MDA Pro - perhaps the XDA Exec's extra software is the cause for most gripes.
daveb1976 said:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
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Click to collapse
I hate T9 so I've never tried it on the Universal. Then again, with a full keyboard, why would I?
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
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I use voice command all the time and it works PERFECTLY for me. That's well beyond my expectations. Now I can't say I've noticed your issue with contacts, but then again, when I use voice command it's when I'm not really using the screen or keyboard.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally and utterly disagree
First of all, MS are trying to get people away from traditional Windows thinking of starting and stopping applications. They want to give the perception of everything just always being there and ready. This wasn't an easy decision for them, but I believe it was the right one. OK, for all us techies and PC-savvy types, yeah, we know what's going on in memory. But lots of consumers (your mum, for example) don't. And this is actually a behavior of the APPLICATIONS, not of Windows Mobile. Take a look at the developer's guidelines and you'll see.
Also, if you want to *terminate* an application that was not designed to be terminated using the (X) button, go to Settings, Memory, Running Programs. You can close any or all applications there. And that's been part of Windows Mobile since at least 2002, if not sooner.
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
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Click to collapse
That's your experience, but so far removed from mine it's untrue! Then again, I've installed almost nothing extra on my Universal.
[snip]
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
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Click to collapse
yeah, I'm in 100% agreement on these two.
:evil: :evil:
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
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Click to collapse
See my comment about Settings/memory/Running programs. You can use this as a task switcher too. But the idea really is to discourage this kind of Windows NT/XP mindset.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
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Click to collapse
Another brave decision for MS is to try to make files easier for consumers to understand. The idea is
"I don't really understand file systems. Why can't I keep all my documents together? In fact, why do I even need to know where my documents are kept? I just want my spreadsheets to be presented to me when I go to Excel; I want my pictures to be presented to me when I go to picture viewer; etc"
MS had a stab at this with Windows 95 and "My Documents". They have abandoned this in Windows Vista in favour or something more like Windows Mobile's "show you what you need when you need it". All these utilities really will become obsolete for all but the most techie users. My companies products are following the same ideology in desktop and mobile software.

sub69 said:
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The T9 PhonePad bug is described in other threads on this forum and I've found that my device has the same problem. However, I don't personally find this in any way restrictive since the Universal has ...umm... a full, usable, hardware keyboard.
All these PDA/phone machines have been best after several experiments with their configuration. I did a hard reset this morning so that I cleaned off all my experimental applications' legacies and now I'm running trusted, tested apps that work well and bring huge positive benefits.
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.

SiliconS said:
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
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Click to collapse
Again, I completely disagree. In fact, of almost ALL the 100s of computers I've used and owned, I'd say that it is less true of the MDA Pro than it is any other computer (maybe except the Z88)
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll agree with all of that though

Thinking about moving from Palm and Symbian to WM5 PPC some ??'s

Hello all, as the title states I'm thinking of buying a Universal. I've lurked this site for a couple of weeks now and have lots of questiones answered but some are still lingering. I am a Palm user using a Sony UX-50 I'm hooked on this form factor tablet and laptop modes( one of the reasons I like the Universal similar from factor). But it has no phone capability which makes for carrying a phone. So I have a Symbian OS mobile phone(SX-1). The Palm device has piss poor battery life for on line use; and the phone has version 1 OS that cannot be upgraded and a lot of the software being created is not backwards compatible so I miss a lot of the apps that are coming out.
Which brings me here... when the Universal came out I thought it was the best converged device brought to market, but the price tag was too steep and rumours(at that time) was the OS was very unstable; times have changed prices have dropped and there are many ROM upgrades for this device so I'm thinking about getting one.
One of my concerns is the Caller id issue I have a headset that displays #'s but would like to have name as well per this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=264700&highlight=Bluetooth+caller+id
I would like to get the Tekkeon headset and be able to see the phonebook not sure if this is possible with Jetware software.
Also the use of Dual sim cards I know it will work per this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=246114&highlight=dual+sim+holder but can it work without turning off and on the phone I believe it was a paticular ROM upgrade that made it possible?
But my biggest concern is the future; I know technology is always moving forward and newer and better devices come out every 6 months. This device seems to be expandable ie. people are using WM6 already unlike my Palm and Symbian OS that are not able to upgrade their systems; it seems that this OS or device is able to keep moving forward with technology. I have many many more questions but will search for those answers.
Anyways thanks for reading this and any and all help is appreciated.

I suggest you goto a local store that stock them and have a play around first before spending your hard-earned cash. I'm always worried when someone mentions how long a particular pda/mobile will last..its entirely down to the individual. Most people buy what's available at the time they can afford it. I've known friends that have owned pdas and mobiles for years and are still content with them. You need to ask yourself if the universal is what you're looking for. There's a significant difference in size compared to a sony clie ux50. However if youre looking for that perfect convergence device, I doubt you'll find the answer...its horses for courses unfortunately.

Thanks for the reply; it's not the life span perse but the upgradability of the OS will this device be able to handle; let say WM7.5? The UX is still on par with most PDA's today but its life cycle is coming to an end Sony pulled out of that market warranties are nonexistent.
The size is not that much of a deal breaker for me; I toyed with one a year ago and liked it. I guess I'm down to the little details. I guess, like other people I'm looking for the Ultimate converged device and so far this seems to be the closeset out there.
Cheers

ok..however theres no real guarantee at all that there will be further upgrades to the Universal. Look at the HP hx4700 for example. It was the top of the range HP pda for a while until HP decided to discontinue it, but a Windows Mobile 5 upgrade was made officially available for it. Alas, its still a dicontinued pda and its future remains at an end. Its obvious that the Universal will have a successor, and manufacturers will continue to produce better, more efficient devices. The Universal will eventually be superceeded and discontinued, however it will have a following. There is currently a WM5 Crossbow rom, albeit in different flavours, available that works quite well, especially Helmi's version, and hopefully a newer build will be out soon so theres plenty of life left in the Universal. I've had mine for over a year now and am very pleased with its functionality. In fact, the newer rom makes it a more interesting device to own. I've also owned most other pda/mobiles and have found I return to the Universal for its vga screen, keyboard, speed and overall class above the rest status. Remember, you're at the best stage to be contemplating its purchase as its had more than 12 months of "shelf-life", and as newer roms become available, it will get better.

Thats so true, I am an early watcher; but late adopter, so with that I will be getting one.

I am trying to grasp a concept...

Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?

I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence. Let me toss a couple thoughts your way. Generally speaking, in the recent past people have:
1) Paid full price for a computer (laptop, desktop, etc) and then promptly go out at get what ever Internet service provider they want (cable DSL) etc. The computer works on any network.
2) Paid a reduced price for mobile phones for the trade off of signing a contract and being tied to a particular provider. In many cases, only certain phones are available on certain networks. This is the complete opposite of the computer case in #1
3) Expected that their computer will be upgradeable (for a fee) over the years, at least until the hardware becomes obsolete. I know I've had XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on the same machine.
4) Expected that if they wanted new features on a phone, they would need to get a new phone.
Now the phones and computers are, too some extent, converging into one device. If I use my Android phone to check email, twitter, facebook, etc and never make voice calls - is it really a phone? No, it is just another Internet connected device for which my expectations are typically that I can upgrade the device until the hardware becomes obsolete. I didn't necessarily say that should be free, but it should be possible.
Another aspect that people expect of their computers, is that they can load virtually any application designed for that OS. Even today, most applications (if not all?) written for Windows 7 still run on XP. With Android, the applications seem to have been tied to the OS. For example, with my 1.5 phone I still can't use Google Voice search or Google Goggles? Why? My phone has a camera and a microphone, but for some reason you need to have 1.6 for them. Same for the free Google Navigation. You need to have a later version - just to run an application.
Again, I am somewhere in the middle. I have been VERY pleased with my HTC Hero. At the same time, I sure would like Google Voice search, Navigation, multiple gmail accounts, etc. I might even be willing to pay to update it (much like Apple makes people pay for iPod Touch updates). But shelling out $600 for a new phone (I buy unlocked - which is much cheaper for me in the long run) for those features does not seem worth it.
The lesson learned might be to always by the Google phone (i.e. Nexus One or whatever comes next). Google are responsible for pushing out those updates and it seems to happen fast!

I bouth my Hero after I saw the HTC tweet that they are working on the 2.1.
Update from 2.1 to 2.2 is a natural function of Android - it's OTA friendly. If a manufacturer declares Android, it declares everything what goes with it. If they don't want to spend time on such minor updates as 2.2, they should declare that as well: Android without updates. And they have not. So people are angry for not getting what they expect. And the expectatons are absolutely reasonable. That's why I will NOT buy any other HTC device. I learned that they dont't treat us, customers, fairly. They are going to do the same exact thing with the Desire as well. Not going down that path again.

I personally haven't heard one person moaning about not getting 2.2.
But people are expecting 2.1 due to no updates being given on the OS since the handset was released. Hero users were promised a long time ago that we would be getting 2.1 due to 1.6 being skipped, whereas other, lower spec models had that update.

You don't know what functionality will be added two updates later, so not having them is neutral, no one is oblidged to update their products and they can be discontinued whenever they wish. Does it matter? No, you got the phone based on the features it had when you bought it, the phone doesn't all of a sudden get worse because it didn't get an update.
I for one will purchase another HTC device when I'm done with my hero, simply because they deliver the best product with the best feature set regarding android, if updates are slow oh well, I buy phones for what they are capable of at the time of purchase since I can't look into the future, and neither can you.

So - all you set out to do with your original post was anger people and not take into account other peoples point of view? I took some time to provide some rational arguments.
Dont you expect to get updates for your computer? Graphics Drivers? Network Drivers? Operating Systems? Surely you don't just by a new computer everytime you need that functionality. You expect either the OS Vendor or the computer manufacturer to provide updates - both to create new features and fix bugs.

Bug fixes yes, but as they said those will be provided, and no I don't expect additional features, sure I'll be happy with new features but I didn't expect them. Even though phones are getting closer and closer to being computers they aren't.

How are they different?

seshmaru said:
Okay, I'm assuming you all bought your hero's for what it was capable of when you bought it, seeing as there were no confirmed updates from HTC and even Google scheduled yet, so why does the majority get annoyed when their phone misses out on the latest 2.2 update? It still has all the features you bought it for. Any update at all is a positive, no update is neutral since your phone didn't lose anything, it just didn't gain anything either. Besides the fact that our Hero's already have basic flash support and are ahead of most devices in functionality just because it was ahead of its time when it got released?
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I was happy with it when I got it, it was after all the flagship HTC device of 2009. But then about a month later 1.6 came out, and HTC said they were working on an upgrade to 1.6. This was delayed, then 2.0 came out and HTC suggested they would upgrade to 2.0 instead. The same happened with 2.1. But you are correct that they never really announced any upgrades officially, it was just announced on there twitter stream. Which is half the problem really. They kept suggesting that they were working on an upgrade, but kept pushing it back. Had they just done the 1.6 upgrade and then stopped, I don't think half as many people would be annoyed.
What HTC did wrong here was to give inconsistent information, along with delays and then kept junking what they had done and telling people they were working on something better. As a result, people kept hanging on, and being told that if they just waited a little longer then they would get an upgrade. If HTC had just come clean and updated us with offical announcements, or had stuck with 1.6 and been honest about a lack of improvement, then people wouldn't still be waiting.
Also, if you look at the iPhone model, they may charge for upgrades but the original 2G iPhone has only just gone out of support. Given that the Hero was the 2009 flagship Android device, and was still being sold way into 2010, its a little hard to stomach the idea that its out of support so quickly.
tl;dr HTC kept pissing us around and making us wait just a little longer, when it could have just said "not going to happen, here is 1.6, sorry" and this is annoying.

Are we buying a piece of hardware which is only going to be bug fixed, or are we buying hardware which is going to be updated for a certain amount of time even after they're no longer selling it?
In my opinion we're not just buying hardware, we're buying a software package behind it. That software needs to be updated, otherwise some major killer feature in a slightly newer version isn't possible for you to get - such as Google navigation, can turn a 6 month old phone which has the hardware capability into a device which is so frustrating.
I expect my device to last around 2 years, various networks offer contracts on these devices for 2 years, I think it's fair to expect updates to smart phones for that duration. I wouldn't expect every feature to be supported (eg. no live wallpaper if the device can't handle it), but it should be updated so it's possible to run the latest apps on it.
The phone manufacturers need to be honest on how long they plan to support these things, because it is becoming an issue. People feel abandoned if they pay hundreds of pounds on a device and never get an update, whilst other users pay the same amount and get multiple updates. If HTC doesn't want to release updates then that's fine - I'll just consider it before buying the device.

clobber said:
I am somewhere in the middle: somewhat content with my Android 1.5 Hero and somewhat annoyed at the lack of updates. I think the trouble all comes down to convergence [snip].
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Nice argument. I hadn't thought about the convergence issue. You might well have hit the nail on the head.

I see your point, but if you had gotten any other non android smartphone besides the iPhone you wouldn't be getting significant feature set updates either.

But some people bought the hero because HTC said they were working on 2.1 months ago, others bought it because it was advertised "Android" and assumed you'd get Android updates. Others bought it because it's a good phone, but to the first two groups of people, the promise of new features was a reason for buying.
People are annoyed because HTC won't provide an update they've said they're working on (2.1), which seems to be a marketing interference to get as many people to buy a new device, rather than keep using their all one.
Also annoying is that we're stymied from having a generic OS made with drivers for all sorts of mobile hardware, but that's more of a philosophical annoyance.

I'm ticked off at the lack of update, not because I think I deserve an update per se, but more because I think I deserve all the features to work properly on my phone, and they don't.
And it's not like I could have tried it before I bought it either...
I've been an HTC user since 2003 and have always promoted the brand, but I don't think I'll get another one after this.