Database Users

Just got my Exec

Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but I have never had a contract mobile before ..
Always suspected they were a bit of a con/rip off/customer service black hole.
So anyway, I finally decided I need a personal organizer/pda for work and since my employer gets a 50% discount on o2 I figured why not splurge.
Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.
It arrived 48 hours later!
Only it came by DHL in an obviously re-sealed box. The unit was inside, no cellaphane in sight. The battery was charged already and despite the courier listing a simcard in the box inventory there wasnt one in there anywhere.
I am pretty deflated by this rather awful service so far .. is this normal?
Anyway I figured, this does not prevent me from firing it up and playing around on the WIFI networks at work.
I have played with this thing for a good 6 hrs today at work and here's my first impressions...
1. Asthetically its lovely but the buttons are easy to press while getting it out of the leather wallet. Camera is always on when I open it up .. grr.
2. My screen has a yellow tint to it. Is this normal? Seems kind of like a crap TFT panel used to look on earlier laptop units.
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
MSM seems to crash a lot.
IE on this thing is quite simply poor. This may be biased by the fact I am a firefox developer .. but it is clunky, slow to respond, PHP sends it into a catatonic state and secure websites just plain confuse the thing.
Lots of crashing. No flash support??
Not impressed.
4. Software. Like, where is it? WM5 has next to nothing useful thats free. I don't believe in shareware at all .. where's the OS stuff? Where's the PDA port of this and that? Very dissapointed that all the stuff I found was win 2003 se only and that was that.
This alone renders the thing a waste of time .. sadly ..
5. Keypad is just useable but I hate the feel. Keys are flat and the rebound is so firm you frequently have to go back and press it down harder to get the right chracter to appear. Its hard work tbh.
Oh and the most annoying 'bug' of all ..
When the thing turns the backlight off to power save, it doesnt seem to come back on at the same level it was at before going into standby.
It comes on so dark you have to tilt it to the light to get through the menus to turn it up.
Annoying .. but fixable I'm sure ..
Anyway, some thoughts.
Generally I think this has potential but it clearly hasnt got enough memory to run smoothly .. 49mb of useable memory? Pah! It reminds me of the kind of things you see on ebay where someone is selling a p4 laptop with 64 mb of ram installed. Waste of time.
The cpu is either crap or scaled so far back to save power it crawls. Jury is out on that for now ..
Summarizing, I DO like this .. but the lack of good free software and the diddy memory and seemingly bloated and clunky wm5 + bugs ruins it totally.
I will probably be trading this in for an XDA IIi next week.
That is if O2 sort me out. As it is, I am frankly disgusted with their approach to new customers! "Lets send em a refurb and see if they notice ..". I even told the guy I was a customer relations rep for a large corp. Like I know how it works .. bah.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..

- Deleted -

This is the most useful review I have read. Thankyou.
TBH, its windows. It's gonna be buggy. I think they just send these out untested, safe in the knowledge that:
a) Buzz or Mamaich will inevitably patch, repair or find awkward ways around 90% of the bugs.
b) The average XDA user is a nerd and will probably follow those instructions/patches and *happily* put up with the buggy features.
c) Joe public isn't clever enough to operate a PDA properly. The average person is too stupid to realise that their PDA crashes itself. They think they're making it crash and are too proud to ask for help/consult the internet. They want a PDA 'cos all their work buddies have them and it makes them look important, using it for little more than checking emails occasionally.
d) Microsoft/HTC know that the kind of person who buys these PDA/phones is the kind of person who will always want the newest gadget, and so will forget about the bugs/issues as soon as the new XDA is released (with its own host of problems). Why bother fixing it when in a few months it will be old news and people will have something new to complain about.
PS, 02 gave me a refurb XDA2s when the insurance replacement they sent me was faulty. It works fine which only around 25% do so I'd rther put up with a refurb than complain and have a 75% chance of the brand new one they send me being faulty.

Sending this on the exec ..
I kinda figured o2 would be light on customer consideration. Hehe.
The phone I got appears to be alright now tbh. I have hard reset to corporate and it is light years smoother. In fact it hasn't crashed once in the last 4 hours!
Performance is fine now too. Still not as fast as you'dd like but it certainly feels more responsive.
I AM A DUMB ASS. The sim was in the box, it had been tossed in loose and was wedged between the user manual compartment lid and the inner structure of that fruity pandora's box.
I'm VERY impressed with the battery life so far.. Talking hours. Neato.
Of course the complete lack of developer interest/support in this version of winblows means i'll still not be keeping it unfortunately. Only Microsoft would release a next gen pda os and NOT include binary compatibility either natively or virtually.
So far haven't found a good free irc client that works. All either pay-for-fun or 2003se only. Bummer.
I have now decided the keyboard is useless. That + the wm5 software absentism means I might either trade for a 2003 xda or buy an IPAQ. Since they seem to have a vast quantity of stuff available: Including a LINUX distro.
With regards the keyboard.. Why the f00 they didn't consider half the number of keys correctly aligned and reasonably proportioned ... who knows. Maybe its like you say, this technology is just blingware and nobody seriously expected people to sit down and type a post like this one. Which, incidentally I am doing with the stylus!
Anyway my hand/neck/wrists hurt already.
Must decist for now.

gubbs said:
Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..
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500 mails.. Wow!
Huib

My JJ crahes when downloading POP email, usually when I am using 3G.
I have to say the ergonmics of the JJ/Exec are mixed. But for me the keyboard is fantastic; typed for 2 x 30 minutes on the train.

for it is great
I have had mine three weeks and it is excellent.
The screen is clear and all functions work great.
I did not load the standard settings as this gives all the o2 stuff that slows it down.
Loaded spb pockect plus which gives as many features as i need.
i believe you have a returned unit.
I have purchased three phones from o2, the XDA, XDA11s and now the Exec and i have always had everything boxed and sealed the battery is normally partialy charged which is standard these days.
Your comments are the same as a friend of mine who ordered the T mobile option and his arrived like yours i told him to return it that day.
He contacted T mobile and his replacement arrived today boxed correctly and perfectly happy with it.
You have a 14 day return policy which some people seem to find a good way of ordering the phone playing around with it and then sending it back under the policy. This then will go back out to a new purchaser as O2 believe it is just a return as the customer did not find it to be what they wanted.
My advice would be return it now, tell o2 you are not happy as the box was resealed they will send yoiu a replacement probable overnight.
clive

How on earth did you get that Tarrif??
'Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.'
I have not seen this anywhere and iot sounds great?

Hmm ok, well I'll get on to o2 in a few mins. Have a cup of tea first - has been a long morning.
Reg. the tarrif it's o2 200 + free double minutes for six months.
It would normally be £30 a month but my employer staff contracts afford a (generous) 50% discount.
The handset is marked the same on the public o2 website ... £149? I don't think I got any reductions on that.
BTW I am typing this on the keyboard today and would like to admit as long as the surface you have it on is very level and very firm (ie not your knee or briefcase lid) then its not so bad.
I also need to google and find out what spb pocket plus is ..
Also you know, I am a pda n00b. I'm sure a lot of what I have said is entirely because I haven't sufficient experience with this technology. I don't pretend to be giving anything more than as-is impressions.

Ok. Spoke to a nice lady at O2 - I think we had chemistry or something - cos she called me 'hun' and arranged for a replacement (new) handset straight away and bunged me £10 off my first bill.
Sweet.
I took it to my manager at work today who I know owns an XDAii and who is a SUPER Geek (tm). He informed me I am not using the keyboard right .. you have to hold it in your hands and type using your thumbs.
Doing this, with autocomplete by tapping the screen with a thumbnail produces some pretty impressive and speedy typing.
I also compared the screen to the one on his XDAii and frankly, it is noticeably smoother. Also in comparrisson the unit weighs in it's case practically the SAME amount as an XDAii (in real world tests not on paper I'm sure). It also found more networks on wifi, quicker than his XDAii and he has announced he wants one. Which would suggest, from a long term XDAii user, that these are a step up from that model. Well either that or he's viciously insecure, competative and fickle. I did say manager didn't I?
All in all, its OK. I seem to get it very grimey tho. Must get some wipes.
I'll be posting a proper, intelligent, considered, non-reflex review on here next week when I get it up and running. I'll also be taking the pictures with the camera and what not ..

Thanks, helpful opinions and info. Ordered mine from O2 on Friday, just watiting for it to arrive
M.

I've had mine about 2 weeks now and at first I wasn't that impressed. It was mainly that speed that annoyed me, but that's sorted now.
I did a basic install and removed all the O2 crap, well, I tried but it failed on the remove, so I deleted the relevant program from the startup and it's all good now. I went back to the Windows default theme as well.
I've got Resco File Explorer, MagicButton running and GSPocketMagic++, though all the features for GSPocketMagic++ are turned off (just having it installed makes it quicker, which is odd).
Screen flips are now down to under 2 seconds, which I think is reasonable. It now responds instantly to screen taps, whereas before it would have a delay of a second or so.
I installed spb pocketplus for a while but found it really slowed my system down. I think it was the battery monitor on the today screen that did it. It's now uninstalled and the thing flies.
All I need to do now is get some kind of navigation sorted and I'm fully happy. I think it's way better than my old XDA2.

So, which install should I do then, basic or corporate?
Thanks
M.

lol gubbs @ your thoughts and experiences.
The sad truth is that many of us get so much pleasure out of just owning a machine like the Exec that we're prepared to overlook its flaws, of which there are (to be honest) many. I love mine, but you're right: there's sod-all software available yet that is 100% compatible (and I mean properly compatible, not just "well, we think it works but it might slow your machine down a bit: try it and let us know how you get on"), and WM5 is horribly crippled by a lack of feature-rich functionality.
There is a halo effect on the Exec caused by its position at the cutting edge of Windows-based phone/PDA models. We think we have the best machines available.
IMHO there are three groups of Exec users:
- technologically ignorant users who use it exactly as O2 intended. Will be either happy or ambivalent about it
- geeks who love to tweak. (I'm in this group.) We, with this website, will work on the damn thing until we're happy with it, and this is part of the satisfaction and pleasure of ownership. Are already happy with their Exec because it's the best money can buy, and we overlook its little faults.
- newcomers who've previously owned a Palm/Treo/whatever. Will generally be disappointed with the Exec because it's different from what they're used to and will seem slow/crippled/buggy. Might become happy in time, but more likely to return unit and swear they'll never touch Windows Mobile again.
gubbs, I'd guess you were in the third group when you first posted here, but now you're moving towards the second group. I reckon you'll be a-tweakin' and a-moddin' with the rest of 'em within weeks! Then (and only then) will you love your Exec.

I agree.
After spending 10 months with the XDA 2s I couldn't go back to a "normal" phone. I've had PDAs since before they were called PDAs - this was my first one - http://tinyurl.com/cyhjo
Yes, I have to reboot it most days, and yes it does some odd stuff, but in general it's been an amazing device.
It's in for repair (lose keyboard) and I'm using an old Nokia 6600 while I wait for my Exec to arrive. I've only been without of for 3 days and it's been like losing my right arm!
M.

The biggest Universal problem

Microsoft behind the thing! Operating system and applications in one dish and no big boy can eat in it. No competition. No killer apps coming from who knows where. No unskeduled innovations. No hurry to cover, bugs created, market holes.

And now in English? :shock:

S'funny I seem to have quite a few third party apps on my Universal, some of which I use more than any pre-installed ones from MS.
Also if you don't want to use MS products why not buy a nice Symbian based pda phone? The Motorola a1000 is nice and the SE P range.

IMHO
The biggest problem is not any one thing in particular...
Yesterday I used an old, disregarded & completely discarded Sony Ericsson T610 - which is about 3 years old.
So T610 Vs. Universal?
Of course one is a bluetooth mobile phone the other is clearly much more... but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think...
The T610 paired with my Motorola H500 BT headset immediately, it dialled, redialled and held calls with perfect clarity & reception. For being an old phone.. I was actually amazed at how speedy it responded making calls, accepting calls, switching from BT to phone, etc etc
all this was achieved with absolute effortless stability....
That made me think how 'awkward' my M5000 is in similar operations... the dropped calls, the dropped BT connections & so on... you know, all the issues we simplly just 'put up with'
Sifting through this forum again & reminding myself of these many different issues we've all at one time or another experienced with our Universals such as stability, responsiveness, performance & the like are the biggest problems
Shame really.. as on paper the Universal is indeed a very fine unit - in operation however it leaves a lot to be desired...

philtech44 said:
IMHO
.. but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think....
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Fact? Get real. No one in their right mind (not even MS or O2) would claim that the primary function of the Universal is voice communication. Even your own sig makes that obvious

Ineedtoys said:
philtech44 said:
IMHO
.. but when you look at the fact that surely the primary function for a Universal has to be voice communication it made me think....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fact? Get real. No one in their right mind (not even MS or O2) would claim that the primary function of the Universal is voice communication. Even your own sig makes that obvious
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Click to collapse
What? not a phone?
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
... as a flagship model!!!

philtech44 said:
What? not a phone?
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Click to collapse
You claimed that voice was the PRIMARY function. If that's the case, why did you pay all that money for the VGA display, large keyboard, 3G, and Pocket PC / Windows Mobile OS, for something that doesn't even have a caller display on the cover? But since you've got the M5000, let's look at Orange's own buy-line:-
"The Orange SPV M5000 is a 3G PDA that can be used to make and receive voice calls"
There you go. 3G PDA first, voice last. No attempt to call it a "phone", like Sony make no attempt to call the T610 a "PDA".
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
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Err... Now you are being silly. Who gets the revenue from 3G and GPRS usage?
... as a flagship model!!!
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It might be flagship model, but it's a DATA centric device for business users, which is why the whole design is geared to using as it as a mini-laptop replacement.
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Indeed. There are plenty of other devices more suited if you need something more "Phone" like. Sounds to me like you just bought it because it was the most expensive, instead of what was right for your needs. That's hardly HTC's fault. :roll:

I kind of agree. I think alot of the phone has been spoiled by ONLY using Windows. (i dont think windows is crap and are not trying to slate it)
There are a few features that other phones have that make them well trick, wee lights that change colour, torches - a bunch of stuff that, lets be hounest you do not need but, makes the phone cool and helps to justify the massive brick in your pocket.
like why was VGA not supported properly? why dont the external buttons light up? why not a torch with the flash?
just my tuppance worth
JAmes

I think one of the major issues here is that the PDA operating system is trying very hard to fit in with its parent, Windows XP. So, just as Outlook, MS Access etc struggle to work with vCard formats, so does the PDA. In this day and age, when even kids tend to have two mobiles (or two cell phone numbers), how can your Contacts database be limited to one mobile number but umpteen fields for landline voice/fax numbers.
Soon, at least in the UK, mobiles are going to overtake landlines (it may already have done so for private/residential users, I don't know).
As a Mac user, I can easily transfer numbers between the Mac, SE P910i and Nokia 9500, and all the mobile numbers for each contact come across (on the N9500 you have to just change the field def, which isn't a prob) but having transferred 600+ vCards to the M5000, I lost all primary mobile numbers and only got the second or third preference mobile across.
At the very least, you should be able to add/redefine fields in the Contacts database -- I've looked and can't find any info or facility for this. That is just one of the deficiencies of WinCE/WM5.
Actually, I'm hoping that now Apple has adopted Intel chips, one of these days they're going to announce a Mobie version of OS X -- now that would be something. I'm sure a lot of users would at least try it, and many of those would even migrate (I can dream, can't I?)

Ineedtoys said:
philtech44 said:
What? not a phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You claimed that voice was the PRIMARY function. If that's the case, why did you pay all that money for the VGA display, large keyboard, 3G, and Pocket PC / Windows Mobile OS, for something that doesn't even have a caller display on the cover? But since you've got the M5000, let's look at Orange's own buy-line:-
"The Orange SPV M5000 is a 3G PDA that can be used to make and receive voice calls"
There you go. 3G PDA first, voice last. No attempt to call it a "phone", like Sony make no attempt to call the T610 a "PDA".
Then why is it provided by mobile phone companies?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err... Now you are being silly. Who gets the revenue from 3G and GPRS usage?
... as a flagship model!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It might be flagship model, but it's a DATA centric device for business users, which is why the whole design is geared to using as it as a mini-laptop replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. There are plenty of other devices more suited if you need something more "Phone" like. Sounds to me like you just bought it because it was the most expensive, instead of what was right for your needs. That's hardly HTC's fault. :roll:
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ineedtoys - has the cheek to say I bought the most expensive toy with a username like that?!
javascript:emoticon(':?')
I'm not going to argue whether the primary function is a phone or mini-laptop/pda, etc etc
or whether a T610 is PDA or indeed a bacon sandwich or something...
As with any MULTI-FUNCTION device - they are simply different things to different people dont you think?
ineed, the title of this thread is "the biggest problem..."
I believe the fact that the phone function of the Universal is not what it should be makes it the biggest problem for me & I suspect quite a few others...
It's quite clear you don't agree with that.. I never made that statement to p*** you or anyone off... or feel the need to argue my case... it's my opinion... and essentially what I'm saying I suspect many would agree with.. However, you haven't yet joined in with the thread and offered your OWN view on what you believe is the biggest problem...??
So, in your view, what is the biggest problem with the Universal ??

@philtech44
I'm wth you - the Universal should do the basic functions of a cell/mobile phone at least as good as the T610 or a K750. A SIM free Universal is between $900 - $1000. For this kind of money you should be getting the best communications device. My daughter's free Moto v3X shows the gap in communication capability of the Universal - you see these are both 3G phones and the extra capacity of 3G improves voice calls, but not on the Universal!

jah said:
@philtech44
I'm wth you - the Universal should do the basic functions of a cell/mobile phone at least as good as the T610 or a K750. A SIM free Universal is between $900 - $1000. For this kind of money you should be getting the best communications device. My daughter's free Moto v3X shows the gap in communication capability of the Universal - you see these are both 3G phones and the extra capacity of 3G improves voice calls, but not on the Universal!
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My point exactly.. my crappy old T610's phone functions including bluetooth worked effortlessy well... my M5000 felt like a Nokia Cityman in comparison and this is wrong...
and yes - for a flagship 3G device.... well... I will say that out of the Universal and two baked bean cans connected via a piece of string... yes, the Universal wins... :lol:

sipat said:
I think one of the major issues here is that the PDA operating system is trying very hard to fit in with its parent, Windows XP. So, just as Outlook, MS Access etc struggle to work with vCard formats, so does the PDA. In this day and age, when even kids tend to have two mobiles (or two cell phone numbers), how can your Contacts database be limited to one mobile number but umpteen fields for landline voice/fax numbers.
Soon, at least in the UK, mobiles are going to overtake landlines (it may already have done so for private/residential users, I don't know).
As a Mac user, I can easily transfer numbers between the Mac, SE P910i and Nokia 9500, and all the mobile numbers for each contact come across (on the N9500 you have to just change the field def, which isn't a prob) but having transferred 600+ vCards to the M5000, I lost all primary mobile numbers and only got the second or third preference mobile across.
At the very least, you should be able to add/redefine fields in the Contacts database -- I've looked and can't find any info or facility for this. That is just one of the deficiencies of WinCE/WM5.
Actually, I'm hoping that now Apple has adopted Intel chips, one of these days they're going to announce a Mobie version of OS X -- now that would be something. I'm sure a lot of users would at least try it, and many of those would even migrate (I can dream, can't I?)
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Click to collapse
yes sipat.. that is definitely another big problem
As far as Apple is concerned & being a Mac specialist myself, you could only imagine a OSX Mobile OS... simple, effective, robust and as far as connectivity & compatibility is concerned.. well we live to dream eh?

I'm sorry I don't agree. At the current point that technology stands you will not get an open OS multi-function device operating as well and as effeciently as a closed OS phone. Granted that Symbian may be more stable, but then it is the much older more experienced OS too.
The T610 has basically one job, it operates as a phone, using it's own software, which has all been written to work together at the expense of ignoring other possibilities.
The universal has an open OS which has to allow third parties to add software, that dosn't even exist yet. This open software is bound to be slower, it has to be, it has too many possibilities it has to consider.
Comparing the speed of a T610 and a universal is like comparing the Fuel economy of a Bicycle and a Jeep. They are 2 entirely different things.
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
Funny how my Universal never drops call, bluetooth works perfectly for handsfree and GPS. I can't remember the last time I soft reset, and when I did it was only part of the installation of new software. It dosn't crash, freeze or run any slower then I'd expect. Why is this? Am I just incredibly lucky?
However I have been using PDA's for a long time, and have come at this device as a PDA with a phone built in, rather than the other way round. If people think a T610 is better, (and yes I did have one once). Then you have bought the completely wrong device with a Universal, because while your T610 may be faster, my Universal is providing so many more functions.
(EDIT): lol Wow, that wasn't intended to come out as such a rant.

Gajet said:
I'm sorry I don't agree. At the current point that technology stands you will not get an open OS multi-function device operating as well and as effeciently as a closed OS phone. Granted that Symbian may be more stable, but then it is the much older more experienced OS too.
The T610 has basically one job, it operates as a phone, using it's own software, which has all been written to work together at the expense of ignoring other possibilities.
The universal has an open OS which has to allow third parties to add software, that dosn't even exist yet. This open software is bound to be slower, it has to be, it has too many possibilities it has to consider.
Comparing the speed of a T610 and a universal is like comparing the Fuel economy of a Bicycle and a Jeep. They are 2 entirely different things.
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
Funny how my Universal never drops call, bluetooth works perfectly for handsfree and GPS. I can't remember the last time I soft reset, and when I did it was only part of the installation of new software. It dosn't crash, freeze or run any slower then I'd expect. Why is this? Am I just incredibly lucky?
However I have been using PDA's for a long time, and have come at this device as a PDA with a phone built in, rather than the other way round. If people think a T610 is better, (and yes I did have one once). Then you have bought the completely wrong device with a Universal, because while your T610 may be faster, my Universal is providing so many more functions.
(EDIT): lol Wow, that wasn't intended to come out as such a rant.
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Firstly, nothing to be sorry about... BUT gajet do stop it!
Do yourself a big favour & dont try to turn my simple statement into a silly
HTC Universal Vs. Sony Ericsson T610 contest... that is not what I said!!
you've foolishly twisted my very SIMPLE point into something utterly ridiculous my friend!
Your comparison between bicycles, Jeeps and the like is also junk pal!!
Kindly go back to my original post and take it at FACE VALUE...
A phone is a phone. A PDA is a PDA.
A PDA with a phone is what it is and so is a Phone with a PDA...
the point is anything that calls itself a phone, whether or not integrated with a toaster or a kettle, PDA or surgically inserted somewhere interesting, should therefore function both properly and effectively, and with some degree of quality as a bleedin' phone!!!
Do you agree with that statement or not?
It's quite clear... the Universals performance as a phone is somewhat cr*ppy for todays technology - its a let down, no question about it. Could be & should be better!
I've compared only that function, to a phone that was designed 5 years ago, manufactured 4 years ago and released to the public thereafter.. and that FACT is my only point here in this thread...
Now as for your own personal experience of Universals, well might I suggest searching the forum for threads which cover the FACT that the Universal - for some of us - does drop calls, Bluetooth is temperamental, are forced to soft & hard reset, and so on... I mean why is the Universal forum so huge with 100's of 1000's of views in its history, with issues AND fixes abound?
But again I must stress, my personal view is the Universals phone function is cr*ppy compared to what it really should be... This is 2006... not 2001... if you dont agree lets see what phone performance will be like in HTC's next generation & equivalent of the Universal...
Do you think they will upgrade all the other functions and leave the phone as it is then?!
get me now??

philtech44 said:
IMHO
So T610 Vs. Universal?
...
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Actually it is exactly what you said.
And my points which you completely missed are if you are going to compare the Universal to other devices, it should be compared to it's peers, not to a completely different device. Compare the Universal to the other similar PDA/phone combos by HTC, a HP Ipaq phone edition, it would even be fair to compare against a Moto a1000, SE P910 etc
Of course these devices improve over time, my Universal is considerable better than my Blue Angel, which appears in turn to have been better than the original XDA range. So yes the next device will probably be better still, but then where on earth did you get the impression I ever thought otherwise.

Gajet said:
philtech44 said:
IMHO
So T610 Vs. Universal?
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is exactly what you said.
And my points which you completely missed are if you are going to compare the Universal to other devices, it should be compared to it's peers, not to a completely different device. Compare the Universal to the other similar PDA/phone combos by HTC, a HP Ipaq phone edition, it would even be fair to compare against a Moto a1000, SE P910 etc
Of course these devices improve over time, my Universal is considerable better than my Blue Angel, which appears in turn to have been better than the original XDA range. So yes the next device will probably be better still, but then where on earth did you get the impression I ever thought otherwise.
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So I did!! errr... whoops!
But still it should still operate as a phone mate & do so well.. it is sold by mobile phone companies isn't it?

No I agree with you 100% there. However when I compare the Universal to other devices of similar functionality on the current market, then it comes out very well.
In fact where I hang out usually at 3g.co.uk, they compare the Universal against other 3g phones, (Which I do realise goes completely against my main point :roll: ), but the Universal still comes out very well.
Yes the universal could be better, (mainly speed wise), but at this current point in time it does very well.
I wish I could clone mine to pass around to all those having troubles, but my suspicion is that most troubles are generated when some tweaking, or installation of third party apps are involved, or more commonly when the damn phone companies insist on using their own versions of HTC's software, (O2 Active and the damn Orange homescreen for example).
Anyway all the above is purely my oppinion, I had no intention of getting into any personal arguements and hopefully we have come to an understanding here

Gajet said:
I do know what the biggest problem for the universal is. It's the end user, the majority of which are completely outside of the intended trarget audience, and missuse a little knowledge badly.
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Hi. I don't want to crank this up to another level, especially after the last post about coming to some understanding. Us Mac guys know that you can get quite emotionally attached to your gadjets, Gajet, but that statement above is so condescending!
I don't think you give people enough credit -- some may have bought their phone because it was the most expensive and is had good "showing-off/one-upmanship" value, but most of have acquired to manage our work and life. When you pay a premium price, you expect a premium product. Using your analogy, you wouldn't expect to have handle-bars instead of a steering wheel in your Jeep, eh?
In my opinion, it is fairer to compare the functionality of a PDA with similar functions on a desktop machine. and, my gripe is still about the Contacts database -- I want editable fields and true vCard compatibility. I don't think I'm expecting too much from what is supposedly a mature product (the Contacts bit is based on Windows for PC tech after all). As this is my first Win based mobile OS I'm still trying to sort out certain issues, but I understand that even moving data from/between supposedly similar or compatible PDAs is not straight forward.
Aaahh! Maybe Mac users are just spoiled silly, hey.

Everybody keeps talking about what the thing is and what should be, but this is not the reason i started this topic for. So i must repeat myself. Who can fix bluetooth problems? Microsoft. Who can fix radio problems? Microsoft. Who can fix performance problems? Microsoft. Who can fix basic applications problems? Microsoft. Who can fix data sync problems? Microsoft. So we totally depend on Microsoft and she can take all the time she wants.

Becoming very disillusioned with this phone

Hi All,
This phone seems to be developing more problems every day! Perhaps it is because I have loaded Voice Command 1.6 but it now randomly (or so it seems) shuts down bluetooth without a warning so that I can't receive calls on my headset.
Add the screen alignment issue which I tried to fix unsuccessfully with the business card, still no bluetooth for voice dialing with VC 1.6 and the following and I wonder is it worth it at all?
Only some names are displayed when calls come in. Many callers only have number displayed even though they are in the phone book.
Phone is often very slow although I don't have a lot of programs loaded. Soft reset seems to help but I haven't tested it extensively. Most annoying is dialing as a 1 second lag while dialing numbers becomes very irritating after a while.
I can't get it to synchronise with my laptop even though both are enabled and it goes some way towards it.
I had my first handheld nearly ten years ago. They really haven't moved on enough in that time I think. Is it acceptable for a company to put out a product that costs megabucks but still requires one to be a geek and spend hours on the net finding solutions to all the problems on it?

broadband155 said:
Hi All,
This phone seems to be developing more problems every day! Perhaps it is because I have loaded Voice Command 1.6 but it now randomly (or so it seems) shuts down bluetooth without a warning so that I can't receive calls on my headset.
Add the screen alignment issue which I tried to fix unsuccessfully with the business card, still no bluetooth for voice dialing with VC 1.6 and the following and I wonder is it worth it at all?
Only some names are displayed when calls come in. Many callers only have number displayed even though they are in the phone book.
Phone is often very slow although I don't have a lot of programs loaded. Soft reset seems to help but I haven't tested it extensively. Most annoying is dialing as a 1 second lag while dialing numbers becomes very irritating after a while.
I can't get it to synchronise with my laptop even though both are enabled and it goes some way towards it.
I had my first handheld nearly ten years ago. They really haven't moved on enough in that time I think. Is it acceptable for a company to put out a product that costs megabucks but still requires one to be a geek and spend hours on the net finding solutions to all the problems on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neil
Whilst there are elements of truth in what you say, I think the lesson here is - if you want stability and reliability and don't have the time for patience or the "developers" instinct, then steer clear of cutting edge technology or the latest gasgets combining a variety of technologies.
I could certainly say I'd be guaranteed a more reliable simple and straightforward phone if I used my old nokia 3100. I would probably say a paper notebook would be quicker on occasion than whipping out the old PDA. If I want to do something on Excel, I'd be better advised to wait 'til I get to the office and so on. BUT for a mix of entertainment and a range of features to help me out from time to time, along with the enjoyment of trying out new things, I'd go for Hermes. In 6 months things will have moved on again, many things will have been sorted out for Hermes but some new gadget will be out next season along with a whole new set of issues. You either enjoy this and don't expect things to ever achieve perfection, or you opt out of the technology race. Change it seems to me is now so rapid, many will question whether it's worth buying the latest technolgy cos before it's even on the shelves it'll have been superceded by the next pre-release models. I can see the rate of customer disatisfaction with new technology rising and rising as companies are forced to release things far too early in order not to loose the superfast moving market. Sky digital being a case in point in the UK with thousands of digital boxes being returned as not functioning. Some folks now being on their 5th or 6th digibox already in the space of a couple of months.
Nuf said
Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I hear you and I do agree to an extent. The problem I have with it is that it isn't only guys like me who buy these devices. I am somewhere in the middle, between an early adopter and a neophyte. I know lots of guys who are neophytes and have bought these things over the years. They don't come with a geek warning nor do they offer any sort of solution in many cases to the operational problems. The guy who buys a device like this does so because he thinks it will work. It is enough of a challenge to figure out how to use the basic functions. He isn't interested in becoming a technology guru in order to solve the problems.
As I said before, I bought my first handheld a long time ago. (HP 620LX) While the market moves on very quickly, I believe there is still a place for mature technology. The 620 was buggy then and the TyTN is buggy now. What about a device that does the fundamental things well? Perhaps they are all over the place and I bought the wrong one. I still think the screen alignment issue is unforgiveable though.

I agree with what Mike said about staying out of the firing line or the cutting edge as he put it. I believe I am more neophyte than most people here, yet I buy into these things for the enjoyment of having to find solutions to the now expected problems with cutting edge all-singing all-dancing devices...or maybe I'm just a masochist?

broadband155 said:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I hear you and I do agree to an extent. The problem I have with it is that it isn't only guys like me who buy these devices. I am somewhere in the middle, between an early adopter and a neophyte. I know lots of guys who are neophytes and have bought these things over the years. They don't come with a geek warning nor do they offer any sort of solution in many cases to the operational problems. The guy who buys a device like this does so because he thinks it will work. It is enough of a challenge to figure out how to use the basic functions. He isn't interested in becoming a technology guru in order to solve the problems.
As I said before, I bought my first handheld a long time ago. (HP 620LX) While the market moves on very quickly, I believe there is still a place for mature technology. The 620 was buggy then and the TyTN is buggy now. What about a device that does the fundamental things well? Perhaps they are all over the place and I bought the wrong one. I still think the screen alignment issue is unforgiveable though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I certainly agree with you regarding screen alignment problem, that's unforgivably poor design as is the loose stylus and loose keyboard.
Mike

mikechannon said:
Neil
Whilst there are elements of truth in what you say, I think the lesson here is - if you want stability and reliability and don't have the time for patience or the "developers" instinct, then steer clear of cutting edge technology or the latest gasgets combining a variety of technologies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, no. No, no, no!
Sorry, that's not how it works. Nope! No siree!
You sell a device on the open market, and it had better be reliable, bug free, and within a certain reliability matrix. A lot of devices are falling outside that range, and the manufacturers are finding themselves in court as a result.
For example, Palm is currently in the middle of a class action lawsuit, over the poor build quality of their Treo 600 and 650s.
Caveat emptor? Sure, but only to a point. Every single democracy in the world has some form of judicially established, and in many cases legislatively established, understanding of quality as a requirement.

BRad Barnett said:
Uh, no. No, no, no!
Sorry, that's not how it works. Nope! No siree!
You sell a device on the open market, and it had better be reliable, bug free, and within a certain reliability matrix. A lot of devices are falling outside that range, and the manufacturers are finding themselves in court as a result.
For example, Palm is currently in the middle of a class action lawsuit, over the poor build quality of their Treo 600 and 650s.
Caveat emptor? Sure, but only to a point. Every single democracy in the world has some form of judicially established, and in many cases legislatively established, understanding of quality as a requirement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you are saying but it IS what is happening as you acknowledge (despite the "Sorry, that's not how it works. Nope! No siree!") and indeed there may be quite a few legal cases brought as a result - but note it still carries on so it is the way it works. In fact, I believe things will get worse with the exponentially increasing speed of technological development.
I stand by my advice stay away from the leading edge devices if it's stability you want and I don't think any amount of cases brought in the courts will change this. I wholeheartedly agree with you as regards any hardware issues - Screen alignment, loose this and loose that, but software has always started out buggy and developed and to some extent, at least ,for those here that's part of the challenge - even if I don't say enjoyment!!
Mike

I've seen the bluetooth stack shutdown issue on my TyTN too. I'm currently testing the 1.35 TyTN ROM to see if it fixes this problem. In my case it was related to using the bluetooth stack for other purposes (bt keyboard, A2DP). It seemed to me that my car handsfree would work just fine until I used bt for one of the above then I'd see the random bt radio off issue. Sometimes this would even happen while driving after a successful pairing with my car.

Has Anyone thought about Face Detection software

Has anyone ever thought about developing a face detection software program for Diamond/Pro which could act as another security feature to protect our phones? Maybe a good idea. Opinions about this as well.

The idea is good. But just thinking it may require a lot of resources to run this application and drain out battery easily. It is good for TP, but not TD

johnp68 said:
Has anyone ever thought about developing a face detection software program for Diamond/Pro which could act as another security feature to protect our phones? Maybe a good idea. Opinions about this as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good idea！But I thought it's hard to realize~

omegasc said:
Very good idea！But I thought it's hard to realize~
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Click to collapse
I have been doing some searches and software is there for Mobile Phones but as yet not for pocket PC's that I can see. I notice the Nokia N96 on sale through 3 mobile Australia has it in its specs. Not sure how much space it would take up but I am sure that a phone with expandable memory (Unfortunately the Diamond doesn't have it) would definately be able to use it and personally I could not see the software taking up over 1gb of memory so the Diamond should be ok. Facial recognition is now available on Laptops running Vista so I am hoping that Windows Mobile 7 has it as part of the update when it comes out although I would like it prior to 2010 when WM7 gets released.

not really diamond specific. youd be better off suggesting in general software creation forum

Brendo said:
not really diamond specific. youd be better off suggesting in general software creation forum
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Click to collapse
Maybe it could have but as the Diamond and Pro appear to be more technologically advanced compared to previous HTC Phones (obviously due to being newer) I would expect this latest technology would be more compatible to these phones.

They'd not only steal your phone but cut off your head as well in order to use the phone.

sjaak21 said:
They'd not only steal your phone but cut off your head as well in order to use the phone.
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Click to collapse
I suppose its the same worldwide, but I know in Australia Mobile Phones are one of the main items of theft from a person and yes unfortunately violence accompanies many of them. Haven't come accross any heads been cut off yet here as yet but knowing society it wouldn't unfortunately surprise me if it did happen one day. I do believe though that we need to make it less enticing to steal our expensive phones. I know here the HTC PRO cost around $1300 outright or $32 a month if on a phone plan over 24 months equaling $768 which is a bit cheaper but then you are stuck with the one phone company regardless. Even if your phone got stolen you lose the dead money regardless so why not make it as least enticing as possible.

I think it is very good idea, there need not to be battery drain, you can activate recognition for example on access to Contacts or message store

So long Leo

If you are the kind of person who gets emotionally attached to the gadgets you buy, please stop reading this post.
I'm not trying to start an inflamed discussion about which is the best device or manufacturer.
I’m not an Apple fan, in fact, I hate being “Apple locked” and that’s one of the main reasons I’ve bought the Leo after owning an Eten x500, a Kaiser, a Blackstone and finally, an iPhone 3GS.
I could go over and over describing the differences and the pros and cons of each device but I won’t. I’ll just try to tell you guys a few things we don’t have to accept.
We don’t have to accept …
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
a Gigahert processor which can’t smoothly scroll a web page. I know it’s probably due to bad Opera coding but… have you ever scrolled an iPhone Safari?
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
I could go on but there is something I realized that made me feel really hopeless (yes, I would really like to like a Windows phone). While HTC (and other manufacturers) keeps on launching device after device in a short time frame and thus creating new bugs and issues to deal with, Apple keeps on improving its one and only iPhone OS, for its one iPhone device (ok, different versions but very similar) which keeps getting better and better.
While iPhone developers have to deal with interface and compatibility issues for 3 very similar devices, a Windows Mobile developer has to deal with hundreds of them, some very poorly designed and a few very good (like Leo) but in the end, there is no way to develop a very good app for so many devices without a huge effort (and cost). Also, developing an App exclusively for one Windows phone wouldn’t be cost effective as a single model doesn’t represent a large enough consumer market.
Apple, with the iPhone, didn’t create a device as we are used to. Instead, they created a product with a long roadmap, mature SDK, sufficient market share, providing the necessary ecosystem for developers all around the world to make it even better.
It won’t be possible for any manufacturer, using any OS, to compete with such a mature product if they don’t realize it’s not a device we need. It’s a product.
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)

fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.

Xeon said:
Couldn't agree more on that.. Actually some people believed that HTC guys were deaf to provide us with such a loud distorted audio quality. I can't forgive HTC for the SMS bug.. I can't load all my SMS, device becomes really really slow and laggy.. How come they did not run a proper test to ensure their HTC Messaging application was working fine with dozens of SMS? This is really unprofessional. What where they busy with? The weather animation?
HTC support will contact me today to collect some symptoms and bugs I found but they did NOT ( as they claimed ).
Hopefully a hotfix will be available ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...

fmcastro said:
Well, one thing we can safely assume by now is that no one at HTC actually uses their devices. Unless they are all deaf, send and receive SMSs only to/from their one and only imaginary friend and probably spend too much of their time watching the weather channel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some bugs are bearable.. I had too many with all my previous XDA/HTC phones. But for such basic bugs to be found, the device primary tasks ( phone calls / SMS ) should never be affected because it makes the device useless...

fmcastro said:
the endless steps (gold card, hardSPL, regEdit, dictionary hacks, you name it) needed to get the phone speaking your language. You just have to say: I want “THAT” system language and “THAT” input language and that’s it. That’s how it’s done on the iPhone. And I’m not talking 3 or 4 languages. I’m saying over 30 different languages and oh, you also have voice control on YOUR language. You don’t need to hack Voice Command…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
fmcastro said:
an SMS conversation that gets all messages out of order (doesn’t HTC know how to do time calculations?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
fmcastro said:
a whole bunch of bad designed apps which you can’t effectively control / interface with because Windows Mobile programmers really don’t seem to realize that “user friendlier” is better. Have you ever used a same App on both platforms? Take Trapster for example (It’s available at Micrsoft app store). The windows mobile version of it makes me feel sorry for the programmer while the iPhone version feels very nice. Of course this is not the only example…
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
fmcastro said:
a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?

aussiebum said:
Uh... you do realise that the reason these hacks exist is because the HD2 probably hasn't been officially launched in the country / language of your choice, and that people are hacking so they can use the HD2 in their country sooner than as decided by the carrier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Humm... not exactly. Most people here at XDA were trying to switch from an oficial ROM to another. That said, we're talking about official languages. I was trying to flash a WWE ROM on a french device for example. The HTC excuse for this terrible language mess is, of course, microsoft: "Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions put in place by Microsoft, it is not legally possible for us the change the language of a device once it has been loaded" - Quoted from an HTC support email I received.
aussiebum said:
That's Microsoft's fault - having said that, I haven't had the problem with the HD2 itself - only the custom ROMS cooked with Leo packages on a Touch HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise it shouldn't matter whose fault it is? It's a faulty device sold by HTC, period. I don't feel any better knowing it's an OS fault.
aussiebum said:
And this is more due to laziness on the developer's part and nothing to do with Windows MObile or the HD2 in general. Take a look at S2U2 - have you seen how nice the settings page is? Or GAlarm, *the* best alarm program ever.
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Click to collapse
I know but I think it's a bit more complicated as I said on the original post. Besides the laziness, WM developers face a too heterogeneous ecossystem that makes things really harder. "Ok, I've finished my app, now I just have to port it to 640x480, 480x640, 480x800, 800x480, 320x200, and who knows what else, despite the fact that standard WM UIs are really crap so every developer has to start from scratch if they want to make something look good. In short, only a few very brave souls will be capable of that.
aussiebum said:
Agreed. Wish HTC would get their act together.
If you hate iTunes so much why not wait a few more months for the Xperia X10, running Android with Snapdragon? Or the Motorola DROID for that matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Android is not that good also. It seems like a better OS than WM but when it comes to user experience and, most important, a consistent user experience across all apps, it fails for the same reason WM fails. Lack of a product design and roadmap. It's just trying desperately to be installed on as most devices as it can.
Regards

And yet, the reasons people still use Winmo/Android is because the Iphone OS has serious deficiencies in some areas.
There is no perfect phone....all we can do is make the best of each OS.

Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.

Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.

I owned iphone 3gs...
I read all you've been writing and i, as former iphone 3gs user, must say that everything you say is corect but... why don't you say to all of us why you gave up your iphone... or why you really hating go back to itunes... and of course why in the close future you'll give up again, and sell the iphone???
The answer, real answer is that with iPhone you have everything right in place as you say but there is no fun... no joy... like trying to have the best sex but not in the mood... if know what i mean...
I had moments when i pulled out my iphone, from my pocket, and i wanted to play arround with it and...come on, really boring!!!
Iphone is the best in terms of everyday use, but if wm 7 will get better in terms of use it's going to be a strong iphone killer!!!
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
By the way...
No OS can have better handle of e-mail attachments than wm... for sure!!!
I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR SELLING IPHONE OVER HTC HD2!!!
Cheers!

jimbo29 said:
I really like my HD2, in spite of all the hiccups, because it's fun, you can lose yourself for hours doing nothing but looking inside of it... settings, registry, HKLM, HKCU... does ring a bell, than entering here at xda and finding that someone did something and you hold your breath till you see if that is working or not...
I only say that i like playing... and HTC HD2 is giving me that!!! i don't need silly games to have fun from my device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for perfectly expressing my thoughts

Toss3 said:
Honestly you'd be better off with an iphone. I love my HD2 despite some minor problems, because I enjoy messing around with my phone. Also browsing the net on the HD2 is much faster than on the 3GS and you don't have to zoom in in order to read anything on the screen.
Let's not forget that the device is going to be upgradeable to winmo 7 as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say i have had an iphone 3g and i'm more happy with my HTC HD2. One of the reasons is because i simply think you pay way to much for the piece of hardware itself still no 5mpx camera while 8 is almost normal and 12 is high end. The new gs is worth more the money tough but the camera keeps me off and i kept hearing a annoying resonance while calling and the software isn't perfect as well and not that stable after a few days plus the battery life of the HTC HD2 is better as my iphone 3g and way better as the 3gs.
I like the default windows mobile software HTC Sense is annoying, camera flip, weather animations can't be turned off. Emails why show the email in the way it is shown now? i just rather had opened the whole email app so i can view the emails like your supposed to and not like a letter.
While calling you have to slide to get the extra options, why? there is a hang up button on screen wich you can press so why not the other buttons?
HTC tried to make a nice looking skin but not a functional one.
I use the default titanium skin with some modifications like a task manager added to the options and msn and the camera. But the apps for calling and the communications manager work great.
About windows mobile 7:
Windows mobile can be great. But i still have the idea they haven't learned from their mistakes. Look at the buttons a phone is supposed to have according to microsoft for windows mobile 7. a Pickup, a home, a start, a back and a hang up button. Why so many? Home and start could be one, 1 press to go home another to go to start and press again to go home again, simple and effective. Why a back button? when would you use that? Press the home button and your back in the home screen and applications usually have their own back button when needed. So pick-up home and hang-up would have been enough. Since Microsoft asks for these buttons they still think to complicated and i bet windows 7 will to complicated as well all though it will be more complete compared to 6.x.
But i love how i can change things to the user interface and multitasking is great, the iphone can't do that by default and that really sucks. And backgrounder that does make it possible, makes the phone more unstable as a windows mobile one. It is stupid windows mobile doesn't use it's greatest advantage for marketing and battling the iphone with it, this is where windows mobile could stand out with.
I'm writing this from my macbook on os x snow leopard and even i still prefer my windows mobile HTC HD2.

Windows Mobile 7 will simply use CE7 Kernel, compiled for new ARM CPUs and will use the new ARM instructions.
Now we're running Windows Mobile 6.5 that runs on CE5.2 kernel.
It's like running Windows98 on a Phenom X4 quadcore CPU
Even on other MSM chipsets that has got an ARM11 CPU, that potential isn't seen because of that.
When WM7 will be released, we'll see our device performance unleashed

I've had my HD2 for a week now and I must say I'm more than pleased with it. I did consider the iPhone as an option, but as I want to connect my phone to my Exchange Server then it was a no brainer to opt for a Windows Phone and the hardware specs of the HD2 are way above the iPhone. A big thing that put me off the iPhone was it's reliance upon iTunes to synchronise my calendar & contacts - it's dreadfully buggy toy software and I don't want a music application on my work PC.
If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as "the users' fault".
The emergence of open source Android phones whill hopefully spur the mainstream smartphone OS writers to concentrate their efforts on developing their own platforms. It's true to say that Microsoft haven't trerated their Windows OS as a mainstream product and there's still too much legacy code in 6.5, but it's still a decent OS for its intended purpose Hopefully that will be addressed in Version 7 which looks likely to be available to HD2 users as an (free?) upgrade. There's masses of quality third-party apps avaiable to maximise its smartphone potential for just about all users,.
There isn't a perfect smartphone out there and as we demand ever more features of them I doubt if there is likely to be in the forseable future, but the nice thing about the Windows Phone OS is that it is eminently hackable.

HD2 Simply Put...
Depth & Customization!

iphone got it right???
I remember hearing complaints about iphone for at least the first year, and as omneity says:
"If anyone has any doubts as to the iPhone's reliability and stability just Google "iPhone faults" and you'll see the problems users have experienced with their iPhones are considerable, with many being bricked through their hardware faults. Interestingly the most common reported faults are similar to those reported by the HTC dissenters such as slow SMS sending - maybe these are network issues? On top of that there's now the 'Astley' virus which Apple helpfully explain away as 'the users' fault' ".
fmcastro said:
We don’t have to accept …
5. a lot of small bugs on the first ROM. Apple got it right on the first and they had never (ever) built a phone before! How many phones will HTC have to make before they get a stock ROM right? The small things are often the most annoying...
Sadly, I’m going back to my 3GS… (god I hate iTunes…)
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p.s. I am a former Apple user. Iphone is more of Jobs' controlled user experience.
I couldn't stand it.
I find it ironic that Apple started out supporting open source while Gates worked hard at controlling users choice.
Now it is the reverse.

New things r always trapped in some trouble, and that's why i have paid close attention to leo, but i didn't buy it! im just waiting for a staid one.

To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.

Teneka_Khan said:
To put it simply - the HD2 is the best phone I have ever used. I think it is awesome. I've had an iphone, etc - but the truth is there is no phone that hasn't got problems. The Iphone is falwed because it has no multi-tasking, crap camera, poor messaging (in my opinion), limited configurability, and its tied to iTunes which is horrible. The HD2 has non of the above. Yes it has flaws itself, but in my eyes less than any other phone out there at the moment.
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I FULLY agree with you ; I also have a iphone 3G 16 GB but is now in the drawer collecting dust. As saying goes, One man's meat is another man poison . No point debating about how good/bad the HD2 and iPhone and any other PDA. It will never end
As far as I am concerned , the HD2 is my choice now vs iPhone

gavinfabl said:
Solution - keep HD2 and get ipod Touch - best of both worlds. Connect ipod via Wifi to HD2.
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Yep, I totally agree...and that's just what i've now done