Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but I have never had a contract mobile before ..
Always suspected they were a bit of a con/rip off/customer service black hole.
So anyway, I finally decided I need a personal organizer/pda for work and since my employer gets a 50% discount on o2 I figured why not splurge.
Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.
It arrived 48 hours later!
Only it came by DHL in an obviously re-sealed box. The unit was inside, no cellaphane in sight. The battery was charged already and despite the courier listing a simcard in the box inventory there wasnt one in there anywhere.
I am pretty deflated by this rather awful service so far .. is this normal?
Anyway I figured, this does not prevent me from firing it up and playing around on the WIFI networks at work.
I have played with this thing for a good 6 hrs today at work and here's my first impressions...
1. Asthetically its lovely but the buttons are easy to press while getting it out of the leather wallet. Camera is always on when I open it up .. grr.
2. My screen has a yellow tint to it. Is this normal? Seems kind of like a crap TFT panel used to look on earlier laptop units.
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
MSM seems to crash a lot.
IE on this thing is quite simply poor. This may be biased by the fact I am a firefox developer .. but it is clunky, slow to respond, PHP sends it into a catatonic state and secure websites just plain confuse the thing.
Lots of crashing. No flash support??
Not impressed.
4. Software. Like, where is it? WM5 has next to nothing useful thats free. I don't believe in shareware at all .. where's the OS stuff? Where's the PDA port of this and that? Very dissapointed that all the stuff I found was win 2003 se only and that was that.
This alone renders the thing a waste of time .. sadly ..
5. Keypad is just useable but I hate the feel. Keys are flat and the rebound is so firm you frequently have to go back and press it down harder to get the right chracter to appear. Its hard work tbh.
Oh and the most annoying 'bug' of all ..
When the thing turns the backlight off to power save, it doesnt seem to come back on at the same level it was at before going into standby.
It comes on so dark you have to tilt it to the light to get through the menus to turn it up.
Annoying .. but fixable I'm sure ..
Anyway, some thoughts.
Generally I think this has potential but it clearly hasnt got enough memory to run smoothly .. 49mb of useable memory? Pah! It reminds me of the kind of things you see on ebay where someone is selling a p4 laptop with 64 mb of ram installed. Waste of time.
The cpu is either crap or scaled so far back to save power it crawls. Jury is out on that for now ..
Summarizing, I DO like this .. but the lack of good free software and the diddy memory and seemingly bloated and clunky wm5 + bugs ruins it totally.
I will probably be trading this in for an XDA IIi next week.
That is if O2 sort me out. As it is, I am frankly disgusted with their approach to new customers! "Lets send em a refurb and see if they notice ..". I even told the guy I was a customer relations rep for a large corp. Like I know how it works .. bah.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..
- Deleted -
This is the most useful review I have read. Thankyou.
TBH, its windows. It's gonna be buggy. I think they just send these out untested, safe in the knowledge that:
a) Buzz or Mamaich will inevitably patch, repair or find awkward ways around 90% of the bugs.
b) The average XDA user is a nerd and will probably follow those instructions/patches and *happily* put up with the buggy features.
c) Joe public isn't clever enough to operate a PDA properly. The average person is too stupid to realise that their PDA crashes itself. They think they're making it crash and are too proud to ask for help/consult the internet. They want a PDA 'cos all their work buddies have them and it makes them look important, using it for little more than checking emails occasionally.
d) Microsoft/HTC know that the kind of person who buys these PDA/phones is the kind of person who will always want the newest gadget, and so will forget about the bugs/issues as soon as the new XDA is released (with its own host of problems). Why bother fixing it when in a few months it will be old news and people will have something new to complain about.
PS, 02 gave me a refurb XDA2s when the insurance replacement they sent me was faulty. It works fine which only around 25% do so I'd rther put up with a refurb than complain and have a 75% chance of the brand new one they send me being faulty.
Sending this on the exec ..
I kinda figured o2 would be light on customer consideration. Hehe.
The phone I got appears to be alright now tbh. I have hard reset to corporate and it is light years smoother. In fact it hasn't crashed once in the last 4 hours!
Performance is fine now too. Still not as fast as you'dd like but it certainly feels more responsive.
I AM A DUMB ASS. The sim was in the box, it had been tossed in loose and was wedged between the user manual compartment lid and the inner structure of that fruity pandora's box.
I'm VERY impressed with the battery life so far.. Talking hours. Neato.
Of course the complete lack of developer interest/support in this version of winblows means i'll still not be keeping it unfortunately. Only Microsoft would release a next gen pda os and NOT include binary compatibility either natively or virtually.
So far haven't found a good free irc client that works. All either pay-for-fun or 2003se only. Bummer.
I have now decided the keyboard is useless. That + the wm5 software absentism means I might either trade for a 2003 xda or buy an IPAQ. Since they seem to have a vast quantity of stuff available: Including a LINUX distro.
With regards the keyboard.. Why the f00 they didn't consider half the number of keys correctly aligned and reasonably proportioned ... who knows. Maybe its like you say, this technology is just blingware and nobody seriously expected people to sit down and type a post like this one. Which, incidentally I am doing with the stylus!
Anyway my hand/neck/wrists hurt already.
Must decist for now.
gubbs said:
Hmm I'm not sure if this is just my experience or not but
3. Anything network related seems to frequently cause the unit to hang. Checking my mail .. downloading 500 mails from IMAP took 15 mins and eventually crashed it.
That said, am getting 50% discount over Mr. Public. So can't complain TOO loudly ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500 mails.. Wow!
Huib
My JJ crahes when downloading POP email, usually when I am using 3G.
I have to say the ergonmics of the JJ/Exec are mixed. But for me the keyboard is fantastic; typed for 2 x 30 minutes on the train.
for it is great
I have had mine three weeks and it is excellent.
The screen is clear and all functions work great.
I did not load the standard settings as this gives all the o2 stuff that slows it down.
Loaded spb pockect plus which gives as many features as i need.
i believe you have a returned unit.
I have purchased three phones from o2, the XDA, XDA11s and now the Exec and i have always had everything boxed and sealed the battery is normally partialy charged which is standard these days.
Your comments are the same as a friend of mine who ordered the T mobile option and his arrived like yours i told him to return it that day.
He contacted T mobile and his replacement arrived today boxed correctly and perfectly happy with it.
You have a 14 day return policy which some people seem to find a good way of ordering the phone playing around with it and then sending it back under the policy. This then will go back out to a new purchaser as O2 believe it is just a return as the customer did not find it to be what they wanted.
My advice would be return it now, tell o2 you are not happy as the box was resealed they will send yoiu a replacement probable overnight.
clive
How on earth did you get that Tarrif??
'Ordered my XDA Exec yesterday on 400 mins cross network tarrif (£15 p/m) and the handset was £149.'
I have not seen this anywhere and iot sounds great?
Hmm ok, well I'll get on to o2 in a few mins. Have a cup of tea first - has been a long morning.
Reg. the tarrif it's o2 200 + free double minutes for six months.
It would normally be £30 a month but my employer staff contracts afford a (generous) 50% discount.
The handset is marked the same on the public o2 website ... £149? I don't think I got any reductions on that.
BTW I am typing this on the keyboard today and would like to admit as long as the surface you have it on is very level and very firm (ie not your knee or briefcase lid) then its not so bad.
I also need to google and find out what spb pocket plus is ..
Also you know, I am a pda n00b. I'm sure a lot of what I have said is entirely because I haven't sufficient experience with this technology. I don't pretend to be giving anything more than as-is impressions.
Ok. Spoke to a nice lady at O2 - I think we had chemistry or something - cos she called me 'hun' and arranged for a replacement (new) handset straight away and bunged me £10 off my first bill.
Sweet.
I took it to my manager at work today who I know owns an XDAii and who is a SUPER Geek (tm). He informed me I am not using the keyboard right .. you have to hold it in your hands and type using your thumbs.
Doing this, with autocomplete by tapping the screen with a thumbnail produces some pretty impressive and speedy typing.
I also compared the screen to the one on his XDAii and frankly, it is noticeably smoother. Also in comparrisson the unit weighs in it's case practically the SAME amount as an XDAii (in real world tests not on paper I'm sure). It also found more networks on wifi, quicker than his XDAii and he has announced he wants one. Which would suggest, from a long term XDAii user, that these are a step up from that model. Well either that or he's viciously insecure, competative and fickle. I did say manager didn't I?
All in all, its OK. I seem to get it very grimey tho. Must get some wipes.
I'll be posting a proper, intelligent, considered, non-reflex review on here next week when I get it up and running. I'll also be taking the pictures with the camera and what not ..
Thanks, helpful opinions and info. Ordered mine from O2 on Friday, just watiting for it to arrive
M.
I've had mine about 2 weeks now and at first I wasn't that impressed. It was mainly that speed that annoyed me, but that's sorted now.
I did a basic install and removed all the O2 crap, well, I tried but it failed on the remove, so I deleted the relevant program from the startup and it's all good now. I went back to the Windows default theme as well.
I've got Resco File Explorer, MagicButton running and GSPocketMagic++, though all the features for GSPocketMagic++ are turned off (just having it installed makes it quicker, which is odd).
Screen flips are now down to under 2 seconds, which I think is reasonable. It now responds instantly to screen taps, whereas before it would have a delay of a second or so.
I installed spb pocketplus for a while but found it really slowed my system down. I think it was the battery monitor on the today screen that did it. It's now uninstalled and the thing flies.
All I need to do now is get some kind of navigation sorted and I'm fully happy. I think it's way better than my old XDA2.
So, which install should I do then, basic or corporate?
Thanks
M.
lol gubbs @ your thoughts and experiences.
The sad truth is that many of us get so much pleasure out of just owning a machine like the Exec that we're prepared to overlook its flaws, of which there are (to be honest) many. I love mine, but you're right: there's sod-all software available yet that is 100% compatible (and I mean properly compatible, not just "well, we think it works but it might slow your machine down a bit: try it and let us know how you get on"), and WM5 is horribly crippled by a lack of feature-rich functionality.
There is a halo effect on the Exec caused by its position at the cutting edge of Windows-based phone/PDA models. We think we have the best machines available.
IMHO there are three groups of Exec users:
- technologically ignorant users who use it exactly as O2 intended. Will be either happy or ambivalent about it
- geeks who love to tweak. (I'm in this group.) We, with this website, will work on the damn thing until we're happy with it, and this is part of the satisfaction and pleasure of ownership. Are already happy with their Exec because it's the best money can buy, and we overlook its little faults.
- newcomers who've previously owned a Palm/Treo/whatever. Will generally be disappointed with the Exec because it's different from what they're used to and will seem slow/crippled/buggy. Might become happy in time, but more likely to return unit and swear they'll never touch Windows Mobile again.
gubbs, I'd guess you were in the third group when you first posted here, but now you're moving towards the second group. I reckon you'll be a-tweakin' and a-moddin' with the rest of 'em within weeks! Then (and only then) will you love your Exec.
I agree.
After spending 10 months with the XDA 2s I couldn't go back to a "normal" phone. I've had PDAs since before they were called PDAs - this was my first one - http://tinyurl.com/cyhjo
Yes, I have to reboot it most days, and yes it does some odd stuff, but in general it's been an amazing device.
It's in for repair (lose keyboard) and I'm using an old Nokia 6600 while I wait for my Exec to arrive. I've only been without of for 3 days and it's been like losing my right arm!
M.
Related
Use an XDA II at the moment, still stuggling to get it to upgrade to SE at the moment. Sort of an intrim measure, untill I decide what to uprade to next. However because I use it with a WiFi card & pocket Skype, my upgrade options are limited.
Have always loved the I-Mate Jam, since its launch, especially its looks & size. However here in Great Britain O2 in all there wisdow decided not to launch the XDA mini so ended up sticking with my XDA II.
Now O2 tell me they will not be providing the XDA mini at all & instead they will be launching the I-Mate Wizard instead late in October or early November.
My thoughts on this go like this, don't really need the keyboard but I can take it or leave it, as long as it is well made & does not make the whole unit excessively fragile.
Built in WiFi, brilliant as I now don't have to have a half inch of my SD card hanging out of the top of my phone, great.
The CPU speed, this is the killer for me, Pocket Skype requires 400mhz or more according to the Skype website, & life without pocket Skype would be unbearable & needlesly expensive .
Does anyone else like me think tbere is a conspiracy going on with the providers strategicly selecting hardware to in one way or another stop us using Pocket Skype. Either the unit is to big to be comfortable & fashionable (the XDA IIi), No WiFi & two littfe memory (the I-Mate Jam), or worst of all not enough CPU speed to run pocket Skype (the HTC Wizard.
All this has firmly made me believe that the Holy Grail of PDA/Phones that I believe we are looking for is:
The Current I-Mate Jam with the following updatey:
128 Megs Ram
Built in WiFi
Windows Mobile 2005.
Wlth two added small hot keys
Slightly faster CPU.
No added keyboard to keep slze as small as is possible.
I am sure I am not the only one wbo feels this & I am sure I would just be one of the many tbousands in the stampede to get hold of this mythical but oh so wanted Devices.
So what is what is left for me to do, keep using my XDA II, hopefully managing to upgrade it to WM2003SE, in the meantime.
And if there really are no CPU upgrades when the Wizard is finally released, hock & sell all I can find to buy a. sim free 128 Meg I-Mate Jam, begrudgingly.
Love to hear other peoples comments on this matter jost to assure myself that I am not the only one who feels this way, or who can give me the dowload address of the combined WM2003SE ROM.
Kind Regards all, Ash'e
PocketPCItalia reviewed the Wizard on their site and were able to use Skype on it, they said they had no problems running it. I don't know the link to the article, but you can find the link on HowardForums somewhere in the Wizard/Qtek9100 threads.
Even someone on the WIKI has reported Skype works (though you need to turn off echo cancellation since this takes a lot of processing power).
ShALLaX said:
Even someone on the WIKI has reported Skype works (though you need to turn off echo cancellation since this takes a lot of processing power).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linky ?
Terran
Is this our Holy Grail.
Thanks guys it gives me some hope, but when push comes to I still feel we are all being asked to compromise, the XDA mini was an awsome bit of kit, in many ways far superior to the wizard, in size & processing power, I now have to take a cut in CPU power on my new upgrade phone instead of getting more power, which you would expect with the march of technology & all that.
So I ask the question again, I really do feel we nearly had our holy grail in the XDA Mini, & where left short in the last furlong, when a well thought out upgrade as descríbed in my previous posting was all it would have taken to produce what I feel would have been a benchmark style icon & a runaway sales success even more than it is anyway,
I really do feel that the HTC are trading of with the air time providers to delay Skype becoming the runaway cost saving mobile call preventing success it is going to be.
Kind Regards
Ash'e
My god someone with my same thoughts. I want a SPV M500 (XDA mini, jam etc) for the size but a slower processor ? and Orange want £180 to upgrade!!!!
Don't start me with that treating exsisting customers like new ones come on i've been with Orange for 10 yrs. But take a new contract and you get the phone for £80 or free! depending what traffic you choose. Stinks !!!!!!
WIKI: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Wizard
Also... someone posted on a forum about how much more efficient the OMAP processor is compared to the Intel series: http://www.smartdevicesdirect.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127&postcount=3
Very encouraging!
I've found my Holy Grail!
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e
Re: I've found my Holy Grail!
sion said:
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per the other thred, contact details, pics, website ?
Terran
I've found my Holy Grail!
Well what a difference in I.T. life a couple of days makes, Two days ago I was panicking about having to upgrade to a HTC Wizard with all it's underlying, associated buíld/development problems, and now I am sat here with my own & what I feel is many other people's PDA Holy Grail in my hand.
In my hand I have a I-Mate Jam, but with a couple or three big differences:
One it has 128 Megs of Ram.
Two it has built in WiFi
Three it has a 2 GIG SD Card plugged in that works.
Now I might add that this is not my Jam, However the little known about UK based company that has produced it are quite willing to customise one for me if I can lay my hands on one in the next week or so.
They will also be offering it as a commercial service over the net as of November this year.
So my dear friends, fellow bookworms, frustrated burglers, affronted policemen or city gents with titly furled umbrella's, I am glad I have joined & listened to you all so many times but I am afraid I won't be joining you just yet in your wizardly new worlds now that I have found my own personal PDA Val-Hala. Long live the 128 Meg WiFi enabled Jam, who knows we may even be able to get WM2005 on it yet, that really would be something, & a right kick up the hind quarters for HTC.
Kind Regards Ash'e
Can these people be so stupid as to ship a device with third party software like Skype, pre-installed and yet it doesn't work and crashes non stop? Could that be? Did they ever think of checking it before shipping out thousands of duds?
Guys, I sent my Imate Jam back and traded it for a T-Mobile Rom, best thing I ever did, a bugless product.
No wonder Imate is proud of their tech support, they can't build the damn things right the first time???
Seriously, if they don't have a fix for in the next three days, I'm sending this back and picking up an XDA Exec. I have twrlvr days left and I have not time for this sh*t.
JusJar skype....
Why getting so upset...., just remove the Skype from you extended rom, use the Total command explorer (you will have to delete it twise.. once for the file and 2nd time the scratch file...) and it will never show up again until the next upgrade...
There are some more serious issues with the machine that we should worry about , but givven that it is a new product, I built the expectation that it take a while to resolve all issues... so far HTC products are the most stable PocketPc products, very flexible and with some guidance we can change alter modify them easily.
In general, I was suprised after 3 days that I bought the machine to land in Japan and this is the first time in the last decades that I land in this coutry and feel very connected. Vodaphone populated their network here it's very high quality voice and GPRS connection (U connection which is 3G). The machine is a bit Bulky relative to my other XDA mini machines, but does the work.. and I would consider it as working .... hop that in the near future we can (with the help of Imate, T-mobile... etc) resolve all other issues.
Genius,
If you read the known issues for Jasjar at www.clubimate.com you would see that skype is listed as one of them. Sometimes a little patience pays off
Hi all,
i read more and more people wanting to sell their brand new exec, BARELY USED... Are people disappointed by it and think it doesn't worth the money ???
I am really wondering what is wrong with it... and i don't have one yet, but i am thinking about getting one... now reading more and more bad reviews on it, dispointment and people selling it after less than a week of use... i am really hesitating to buy it, even though i ve waited it for many months !
What is your opinion about it and do you think it really worth 1000 € ??
Thanks,
Mike.
I would NEVER recommend it for a housewife, but if you are just a little bit tech savvy, AND have a weekend to spare setting it up according to guidance on these forums, it's great. If you do not, you could be extremely miserable with the speed and unacceptable bugs such as BT turning off.
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
As a phone its no good for me just too fiddily, i use it as a data centre and pocket pc with a seperate phone, for this it is perfect
I think its a great little device. Don't get me wrong, if you expect it to have no bugs you will not be happy but as with all new technology, it will take time to iron them out.
In the meantime, I am happy to live with the minor glitches. It wont take long until the Exec is supported better (and also WM5) and this should be when this device comes into its own.
As for the functionality as a phone - I really am getting used to it
xiasma said:
I think a lot of it is people hoping to make a quick buck. I mean, £229 + £8 x 12 = £325 total outlay. People are selling them for upwards of £400 pretty much the same day with just about no risk and keeping a free 5mb/month sim card. Either that, or they just don't need a new handset and are taking advantage of the demand for Universals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is spot-on. That's exactly what a few people are doing. Sure there are some people who have been disappointed with theirs, but honestly, what were they expecting? Most people who are complaining are either newcomers to the PDA/Phone world, or they're installing every damn WM2003 software they've ever bought and killing their machines with incompatible software. IMHO
I couldn't ever personally justify €1000 for any phone/PDA device, but for €500 it is an excellent machine. I love mine. Perhaps I'm biased. Just remember that it's an early release of WM5 and there are a few bugs. They'll be fixed in time though and they're not fundamental IMHO.
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
I agree with what's been said so far. If someone came to this even from a Nokia smartphone I think they could be disappointed, as they are phones first and pda/gadgets/whatever second whereas the Universal is more like a high-end pda with a phone that happens to be built in. Even coming from a non-phone PDA (as I did) takes a little getting used to imho, since I used to have a far more cavalier attitude to installing stuff on my ipaq whereas now with the Universal I need to consider "will people still be able to ring me if I install this shareware demo?". Stability and reliability is very important for a phone, but for a small portable computer I tend to think that features and what-can-I-install-next are key. These are almost mutually exclusive characteristics and so finding the right compromise is a fairly personal decision I think - although it will probably divide into those two camps.
Going off-topic a bit, it would be nice if there were a 'phone only' kind of safe mode on the Universal, so if you do get something buggy going on you can set it to phone-only mode until you get round to sorting the problems, safe in the knowledge that at least the phone will work.
What do you think?
jah said:
@xiasma, which tariff is £8 per month? Can you purchase this online?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the Data 5 tariff - purchase from an O2 shop, not online. You maybe able to buy it over the 'phone.
I think people are after quick bucks as well, to me the Exec is buggy, not because of the device but rather the reliablities of WM5. Performance wise it's decent even with O2 active, my major issue is I can't get most of my most often used softwares to work properly in WM5.
Size wise, I was really surprised as it's not nearly as big as I originally imagined, it's only slightly bigger than my old IIs. I think couple ROM upgrades, I'd love this thing
I am glad you guys started this thread. I too want to purchase an HTC Universal, but was having second thoughts because of the bad comments I read about it.
I do have one question though, "Is it plague with soft resets?" How often do you have to perform a soft/hard reset?
First, my hypocrisy: I have an XDA Exec, I've let the opportunity go by to return it and I'm probably going to persevere.
Next, the rant...
I think it is a complete disgrace for this product to have been released as it currently is. It shouldn't be necessary to spend a weekend getting a consumer device up and running. The bugs in the software are not "kinks", they are key pieces of functionality that simply do not work. Microsoft, O2, Vodaphone would have picked up these within 1 day of normal operation without installing ANY other software and yet they release the product and charge you for it.
Here are some of my most obvious examples:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
This is the kind of experience the world had to put up with when Windows 95 was launched and I thought Microsoft had finally reached a point where they were able to release decent software (like Windows XP), but clearly they're still happy to release rediculously low quality products.
What I do plan to do is to harrass O2 as much as possible regarding this. Make them wish they'd never sold the product because of what it's costing them to support. As MS now have OEM resellers carefully positioned between the end user and themselves perhaps doing this will eventually put pressure on MS to stop insulting us.
What's sad, is that they're doing it again - Palm have just decided to start running Windows Mobile, so it's only a matter of time until the Microsoft monopoly has been extended to PDAs as well. And the crazy thing is that this isn't because of it even being a nice product to use (bugs aside). How can MS (who have been developing software for such a long time) be so completely clueless when it comes to software design. Reading this site confirms that I'm by no means the only one complaining:
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
Every time, the support community comes up with nice freeware apps that fill all the holes and on the next release of the OS, all the same holes are there. It's like MS lock all the app designers and developers in a room and don't let them near an end user.
Believe it or not, this post not from an old Microsoft hater, but I'm surely becoming a new one.
There, I'm done...
Dave
It is better than the BlueAngel!!!
I received mine in from O2 the other day and from just running Win2005 and included software, this device really seems to be an improvement over my MDAIII, which I have never yet been able to work solidly in a years's time of playing with it. The build quality is very good. However, my 2 primary 3rd party applications - Goodlink push email and Tom Tom Navigator 5 - do not intall and work. I have been told that the Tom Tom will work if the CABs are transferred in manually, but I have not yet tried that. My Dictionary and Bible programs installed and work fine from their SD chips. But the only thing now is to wait for everybody to tweak apps to Microsoft 2005. This device should start to take off after that starts to occur. However, once HP with their iPaq 6515 upgraades to 2005, then that should be major competition to HTC - even though HTC makes those as well :lol:
There are absolutely, catagorically, 100% certainly, no arguements, LESS BUGS in my brand new WM5 JasJar than any WM2003SE device I've owned previously.
I agree with some points made though, software which works on WM5 is few and far between, and even if you find some which says it works, it may still cause problems...Look at SPB Pocket Plus which slows the JJ to a crawl if you put a storage card meter on your today screen.
My advice is to be patient and accept that because you've bought the first WM5 device, there will be some time to wait until there's software available that's not only "Compatible with...", but actually "Designed for..." WM5.
Very pleased I didn't own a WM2003 device older device then. It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
In terms of other applications, I completely accept that installing old apps on WM2005 may cause problems. I'm refering to the product "out the box".
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
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Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
I've already taken it back twice and it's been swapped out both times. There are a number of people on this forum who have had the same problem. Here's one posting.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=30591&highlight=
I guess it's possible that if I were to flash to the imate ROM it might work, but then I lose my warrantee.
TBH, I disagree with just about EVERY point on your list
I'm certainly not aware of glaring bugs or omissions. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm using an MDA Pro - perhaps the XDA Exec's extra software is the cause for most gripes.
daveb1976 said:
* The phone pad T9 entry method does not work. On a clean O2 active install, this works until the first soft reset and then no more. Using the corporate mode, it works for a while and then stops.
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I hate T9 so I've never tried it on the Universal. Then again, with a full keyboard, why would I?
* Microsoft Voice command, which has a link for purchase displayed directly on the Windows Mobile 2005 MS website does not display contact information when dialing a contact.
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I use voice command all the time and it works PERFECTLY for me. That's well beyond my expectations. Now I can't say I've noticed your issue with contacts, but then again, when I use voice command it's when I'm not really using the screen or keyboard.
* About the first thing you have to install is an app to properly close applications because the memory management is so poor that you're constantly having to soft reset, or go into settings and close all programs. Ok, perhaps not a bug, but surely within a day of using a beta of the device ANY MS employee could go "oh, well, I guess our backgrounding method of memory management doesn't work".
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Click to collapse
Totally and utterly disagree
First of all, MS are trying to get people away from traditional Windows thinking of starting and stopping applications. They want to give the perception of everything just always being there and ready. This wasn't an easy decision for them, but I believe it was the right one. OK, for all us techies and PC-savvy types, yeah, we know what's going on in memory. But lots of consumers (your mum, for example) don't. And this is actually a behavior of the APPLICATIONS, not of Windows Mobile. Take a look at the developer's guidelines and you'll see.
Also, if you want to *terminate* an application that was not designed to be terminated using the (X) button, go to Settings, Memory, Running Programs. You can close any or all applications there. And that's been part of Windows Mobile since at least 2002, if not sooner.
I have hard-reset my device many times and yes, it's possible to make it work provided you put enough attention into it, but it's supposed to be a productivity tool and yet it's taken many more hours to use than it's saved.
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That's your experience, but so far removed from mine it's untrue! Then again, I've installed almost nothing extra on my Universal.
[snip]
* Nice, expensive crystal clear screen, brand spanking new OS and web browser. Oh, you can't browse in 640 X 480. Never mind...
* No full screen terminal services. Never mind...
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Click to collapse
yeah, I'm in 100% agreement on these two.
:evil: :evil:
* Let's not bother with a task switcher. It's much easier to go through the menu every time.
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Click to collapse
See my comment about Settings/memory/Running programs. You can use this as a task switcher too. But the idea really is to discourage this kind of Windows NT/XP mindset.
* Why provide a decent file explorer, people will never use it.
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Click to collapse
Another brave decision for MS is to try to make files easier for consumers to understand. The idea is
"I don't really understand file systems. Why can't I keep all my documents together? In fact, why do I even need to know where my documents are kept? I just want my spreadsheets to be presented to me when I go to Excel; I want my pictures to be presented to me when I go to picture viewer; etc"
MS had a stab at this with Windows 95 and "My Documents". They have abandoned this in Windows Vista in favour or something more like Windows Mobile's "show you what you need when you need it". All these utilities really will become obsolete for all but the most techie users. My companies products are following the same ideology in desktop and mobile software.
sub69 said:
daveb1976 said:
It still doesn't change the fact that they've released a product with full knowledge that it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What "doesn't work"?
Everything that came with my JasJar works perfectly.
Your t9 problem is not something I've heard anyone mention before. If you've done a hard reset and it still doesn't work, I'd send it back to O2 and get them to replace it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The T9 PhonePad bug is described in other threads on this forum and I've found that my device has the same problem. However, I don't personally find this in any way restrictive since the Universal has ...umm... a full, usable, hardware keyboard.
All these PDA/phone machines have been best after several experiments with their configuration. I did a hard reset this morning so that I cleaned off all my experimental applications' legacies and now I'm running trusted, tested apps that work well and bring huge positive benefits.
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
SiliconS said:
However, people who just want a machine to work out of the box will find Microsoft's core applications are crap and empty of features. I fully agree with daveb1976 about that. I disagree that they're particularly buggy though.
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Click to collapse
Again, I completely disagree. In fact, of almost ALL the 100s of computers I've used and owned, I'd say that it is less true of the MDA Pro than it is any other computer (maybe except the Z88)
Fortunately I (and many others on these forums) actually enjoy messing about with the configuration and tweaking the machines to get them working 100% the way we want. It's part of the pleasure of owning them IMHO. Not everybody will share this pleasure, though, and so some frustration is understandable.
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I'll agree with all of that though
Here goes, my first ever post on any forum. So please bare with me on the following. I'm laid in bed next to my lovely wife and it hits me, why do we mess with all this tech! More rhetorical, than a question. More to the point my wife asks "if it's not broken why fix it?"
It leads me to add to the already hyped wm5. I believe there is a reason behind the so called 'lack of upgrade' for the mda compact. And I may make a believer out of you all.
If you know anything about computers, you will understand about CPU's. My desktop computer is meant to be an amd duron 1600mhz, but I can clock it at 2100mhz. They call this overclocking (sorry, I'm teaching you how to suck eggs). In reality it's what we call a broken spec CPU. The chip probably started off as an amd athon 2000xp. But failed the tests, so not to waste the capital gain. They remove some cache and a couple of IC controllers and hey presto - they made 50 quid at something they should have thrown away. Or should they? This theory is a long standing myth that dates back to the late 90's with broken server chips being rebaged by Intel as mmx 200mhz. It was even stated in a PC mag that celerons were broken versions of p3's. AGAIN certain features were removed to make it cheap. But this is just a myth! Getting back to the mda issue. I think that htc designed many models that are robust... But they decided to try out a spec with the latest (at the time) software. It has to be cost effective and at least meet a minimum quality. And don't forget deadlines. So times ticking away and you get a cut down version of what should have been created. This would explain the lack of support for wm5 as it would be too flaky to use. If at all.
I've for the past 12 months, tried to use bluetooth, make the camera work, have a decent conversation without having to reset or reinstall the crummy software.
This is my forth mda compact. I have no faith in ms, htc or t-mobile, that brings me back to what my wife said.
My answer is they never worked when we got them. But its fun trying to fix or understand them!
HTC went in at the bottom for this and the early adopters of this tech pay the price - but that's business.
I'm ready to through this away cos this is refusing like the little b'tard child it is, to do as it's told.
Question for you all, no need to reply. Have you reset your mda compact more times than the total amount you have ever reset all the home computers you have had or used in your lifetime?
If so welcome to my world.
P.s this is a fantastic site.
I appreciate your logic,BUT
Mine works fine! i have the TMobile MDA here in the US, it really does a good job. I overclocked it to 252, reg tweaks, bluetooth with my Jabra BT250, wifi on G, and I love it. Best phone ever (did 1.13 radio rom upgrade)
Sorry you are having such troubles that are having you type while you laying next to a beautiful bird!!! Throw that thing out and get busy!!!
Good Luck. :twisted:
cheers mate. i'll try n wake her up.
nah to honest i love the phone. I've been in and out of the computer industry for the past 12 years. i'm getting behind. but i still manage to spot issues or problems.
They replaced it 4 times cos i found the problems.I insisted it was software but t-mobile was just starting out with this breed of smartphones.
my main point is no matter what the product, it never lives up to the dream, but it's good to learn how to fix or purge ideas to make something better than what it was original.
I'm just frustrated...
by the way i find it funny that when you show the phone off and tell the crowd it's got windows they ask does it crash
I was in a hurry to make a connection and left it in the seat pocket on the plane. Someone in Chicago or another connection has a great device. I bought the redfly to go with my ATT Titan II and just connected it this morning. The big disappointment is that video is terrible. Other than that most apps work great. Let me know if you want me to test something.
It is unlikely that the airline will find it, so I'll have a battery and original box for sale in about 10 days.
thats really sad
Re Redfly, how is the performance in mobile office? Read some reviews mentioning about pdf files opening extremely slow... your experience so far?
Using BT, how is battery life? Just curious to know the real user experience.
Thanks.
Redfly
All of the mobile office apps work great, it is not hard to see why they are targeting the business market. The only thing that I'd love to see would be better video play, but I did not expect that. The keyboard is fine for touch typing and I've had no trouble getting used to it. The screen is really good in the truck and I'm enjoying it for gps, google maps, and expensable. The view of contacts and calendar when in the truck is so much better than the phone itself. It is priced ok and worth it at $199 but that is still a stretch since it cannot replace my phone screen or media player for video on flights. So my dilemma is still multiple devices if I want a larger screen. The screen for Mobile Office is better than the Advantage, but for a do it all device I'd like to have it back.
I just received my scratch and dent x7501 from an ebay transaction, and it only came with the charger, so I might be interested in whatever you have, especially proprietary cables. I can't say I necessarily have to have them, but it might be helpful in case i decide to sell.
I didn't think I'd miss it like I do. So I'm going to watch the "for sales" and ebay for a couple of weeks to see if I can find a replacement. If not, I'll contact you 1st.
hitch said:
I didn't think I'd miss it like I do. So I'm going to watch the "for sales" and ebay for a couple of weeks to see if I can find a replacement. If not, I'll contact you 1st.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u can always get my athena if ur interested.
RE Comments and a Question About Redfly As Well
First off, very sorry to hear that story. Thats a fine piece of equipment to have to get over from the loss. I know how I am, I'd be walking around kicking the ground with my head down for weeks. Just remember, you never know, that airline could call tomorrow and surprise you. I would also make sure you contact them again. You never know. Perserverance in a case like this can be invaluable.
Let me also take a second to say to the masses, if you do not have your devices clearly marked with Contact Info, your making a mistake. I simply go into Word or Notepad or whatever and make some simple pieces of paper with my name , number. the words CALL IF FOUND, use a Size of 7 or or 9 FONT depending on how big device is and use BOLD. Cut them out, apply to back of battery is best, but at the least under the battery, people find a device I guarantee the battery comes off sooner or later, and then just use a piece of clear scotch tape (or two). This got my $1400 Black MicroTAC back in 1984 or 85. (something like that) When the Car Kit was $2700. One other thing. Sure Auto Locking on a device gets old. But there is nothing better then to know after a loss or theft that at the best he has a worthless piece of equipment and the least he will have to maybe spend some money and time to get it unlocked. It will help take the sting out of it mentally.
REDFLY:
As to Redfly I also said what the heck for $199 I will jump. With a coupon from MODACO I got another $18.00 off so I am priced right. I am a sceptic about this "seeding"program. I think it was not selling and it was time to get cost out of these units back before it is too late. When they are gone they may be gone and then used and marked up Ebays will be what is available. They may even hold value awhile as they do work as stated.
The OPS statement that the RedFly is for the Business user ( I will also say Student, perfect for Student for taking notes etc) is correct. If you want to watch Videos, forget it. But if you want to type documents, get on the Internet, web browse and check emails and know your phone is staying charged all the while and get good battery life with the whole combo, the Redfly works. It does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do well, and NOTHING else really. Your getting a nice big screen for your phone, keyboard and touchpad, abilty to charge / maintain battery level on phone while using (give or take a bit) for hours. It is small and you will see about 8 hours of battery life. If you need to use a projector it has a regular VIDEO port for say classroom or Power point meeting presentations
RedFly Question / Issue:
Im curious if the OP has experienced the intermittant connect between the AC cord and the Power IN port on the Redfly. Mine barely makes the connection and will pop out while just sitting there doing nothing or being lightly moved or typed on. It seems to be an R and D issue that got by. I have read others complain about it. Mine is bad enough I am exchanging. BTW, if you are going to get a RedFly allow me to suggest Erik Patterson at Expansys USA. This guy has taken care of me before, during and after the sale on the Redfly. I have been very impressed. On a $199 sale he is making very little (if anything) commission wise, He has treated me like I did just buy an x7501 with every available Accs. LOL. He is a true professional salesperson and I would love to see him get the business (RedFly or anything else for that matter) . He has earned my future business hands down.
OK thats enough for this "cover everything" post.
Here is Eriks Info. Please tell him Ron sent you.
Erik Patterson
EXPANSYS USA Sales
800-675-2638 ext 1344
EMAIL: [email protected]
As for the power plug you might want to see if you are getting it plugged all the way in. Many have noted, as I have with mine, they have a lot of tension on the socket so it doesn't come unplugged and you think you have it plugged in when you don't.