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Universal, jasJAR memory does not match specs

The reported/quoted imate specs say 128MB flash ROM and 64MB SDRAM.
My device reports:
Storage Memory Total 43.72MB
Program Memory Total 47.93MB
With no applications other than the branded OS installed (33.05MB 'In use by both Storage and Programs) giving that leaves
Storage Memory Free 30.47MB
Program Memory Free 28.14MB
Where is the missing 158MB of memory? How can I access the missing memory?
Also, what happens if I install applications to the SD card. Do they still work?

Yes, they would still work if you instlal programms on storage card.
This is strange, as I think there should be more storage memory than you have right now. About 17 Megs of your memory is also being used by useless cab files which were there for the first time install.. There are ways and means to reformat the drive and actually gain all this space (Extended_Rom) but it involves some advanced tricks in doing this. Nevertheless The rom should more storage not just 40 Megs (?) can someone else confirm this is the available ROM on the JasJar?

I can't add up
My earlier post should not say missing 158MB of memory, cause if you add up my figures there is just 100MB missing. Had a long day messing around with my new device, and as I say my maths ain't that hot anyway.
Thanks for the advice on installing apps to the storage card.

Same here 43.72MB Storage memory and 47.93MB Program memory.
Not happy.

memory
Expansys website states the following specs:
Memory
• Flash ROM: 128 MB
• RAM: 64 MB SDRAM
can be found here:
http://www.expansys.com.au/product.asp?code=119353
If it doesnt match, I would be sending it back, or sueing for false advertising.

What the hell is going on here, $1650 for this device and it has less memory than a Jam and lieing on the website. mmmmmmmm, I would be mad, real mad, someone should die for this, this is worse than the new Telstra boss.

memory
yeah i already ordered mine and am waiting on it to see. i know the way it interprets and runs is different to previous versions, ie my understanding is a hard reset retains its data, so it means it installs directly to ROM and stays there.
From that I can only summise that you can install a maximum of 128 meg of operating system and software direct to ROM, but can only run a maximum of 64 meg into RAM at any point in time, including the operating system, data, and applications.
Then you only use the RAM when you launch the applications, but this would also require the ppc to use some of it, which would appear to be about 20 meg from the previous stats, leaving a max of 40 meg to actually be running at any point in time.
Anyway, wait and see, hopefully should only be about a week as we are on the otherside of the world from where most people are getting them from.
Eitherway, it appears to the best state of the art phone currently available, so we'll just have to see.
Anybody that has already got one, how long does the battery last when running the WIFI? I know my XDAII with a Netgear CF can be drained in a little over 1 hour including the backpacks battery and the main battery.

ROM and RAM size fine
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.

Re: ROM and RAM size fine
vpreHoose said:
On my JASJAR bought in Dubai yesterday the Device Information says:
RAM Size:64Mb
Flash Size: 128MB
The way Windows Mobile 5.0 manages memory is differnet to Windows Mobile as all the memory is persistent. So you don't lose your data when the device powers off.
But it uses the RAM and ROM more like a PC. The Memory Settings area shows the Storage and Program memories.
The 128Mb of ROM is used for storing the Operating System and for storing user data! The OS takes up about 84.5Mb, leaving on my device 43.5Mb for Storage.
The 64Mb RAM is RAM for running programs. The OS takes about 16Mb at runtime leaving the 47.93Mb Program memory for me to run my programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how much price did u pay for imate jasjar in Dubai.
thx

I am dissapointed. My PDA2K has all my major apps installed and still has 18MB free.
The jasJAR with just tomtom5 installed has only 20MB free.

The OS takes up about 84.5Mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? when i loaded 2005 on my BA, the OS was 32mb???

Amount of user mamory in Universal

I would like to verify the amount of user accessible memory on JasJar. I have the test unit with 1.11 system, but what bothers me much is the problem of memory - In the Settings\DeviceInformation\Hardware I have:
RAM size 64 MB,
FLASH SIZE 128 MB,
Storage Size 43.72
But If I open Settings\Memory it is only
Storage 43.72 MB
Program 47.93 MB
Where is the rest to fill 128 MB??
lukasz

I think (although i may be wrong) that the OS and preinstalled apps are using 84.28mb of the storage memory (the ROM - hence only 128 - 84.28 = 43.72mb storage available) and a portion of the RAM when running (hence only 47mb of the 64mb of RAM being available). Remember that WM5 uses ROM for persistant storage of data and RAM is used in the same way your desktop PC does (state, running code, cache etc).
...also - 'user mamory' ? :shock:

tintoy said:
'user mamory' ? :shock:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet he feels a right tit!

RAM
HI
If i see the possible amount of RAM (for the running program) it's 47,93 Mb. After hardreset (before install any application and stopping the automatic loadaded program) i can use just about 30 Mb. It's normaly? Can I enlarge it somehow?
Breki

Re: RAM
Breki said:
HI
If i see the possible amount of RAM (for the running program) it's 47,93 Mb. After hardreset (before install any application and stopping the automatic loadaded program) i can use just about 30 Mb. It's normaly? Can I enlarge it somehow?
Breki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. 47Mb is what you get AFTER the WM5 core OS parts have been loaded. Anything that is taken up from there (47-30Mb is 17Mb) are today plugins, applications, task switchers, operator customizations etc. Unlike WM 2003SE and earlier editions, there is no slider anymore, and the available RAM memory is fixed. So either wait for PPCTechs to provide a RAM upgrad efor the HTC Universal or limit yourself in the choice of starting up your most crucial applications. (and use a task switcher to close the programs instead of minimizing them ;-)

A RAM upgrade would not increase the program storage available (and would only shorten the battery life). It woudl only increase the amount of memeory available for running applications and this si hardly under stress even at 64Mb.
A ROM DOC upgrade would be a different matter. I ntoice the repalcement for the Dell Axim X50v has 256Mb ROM - very much a WM5 design consideration!

Re: RAM
I understand, but when i have just 30 Mb I was after hardreset. No plugin, no other programs, with the reset i stopped the antivirus and other factory default program load from extended ROM. No installed programs, full empty. Just the brand new PDA. How can free the 47-30 Mb RAM?
Breki

Maybe because you have a test unit with a pre-release of the WM5 OS? I suggest you ask I-Mate to provide you with a release version of the WM5 OS first.

Eh? So are you saying that after a hard reset, prior to any operator customisation apps running (ie, a with a very clean base installation of WM5 running), you only have 30Mb RAM? (and i guess you also have a little more ROM as none of the apps have installed to storage memory from the extended ROM).
To clarify: when do you have 30Mb free RAM and when do you have 47.93Mb free RAM?[/u]

Wiz said:
Maybe because you have a test unit with a pre-release of the WM5 OS? I suggest you ask I-Mate to provide you with a release version of the WM5 OS first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As i see maybe
My ROM is 1.12.38WWE
Radio 1.03.00
Protokol42.36.P8
How can i get an actual ROM?
Breki

Breki said:
As i see maybe
My ROM is 1.12.38WWE
Radio 1.03.00
Protokol42.36.P8
How can i get an actual ROM?
Breki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 1.12.42WWE, but that is in my MDA Pro. Anyway, 1.12.38 looks like a release verison to me, not a test version.

My JasJar, as bought from Tottenham Court Road (so definitely not a test model) is as follows:
Rom Version: 1.12.38 WWE
ROM Date: 08/24/05
Radio Version: 1.03.00
Protocol Version: 42.36.P8
ExtROM Version: 1.12.120 WWE
No idea what my free memory is like after a hard reset, but I have over 30Mb free when it's in it's normal state (with Pocket Breeze running etc)...

Memory amout -again
Sub 69 - just to make things clear could you please post the following:
In the Settings\DeviceInformation\Hardware:
RAM size ? MB,
FLASH SIZE ? MB,
Storage Size ? MB.
And in Settings\Memory
Storage ? MB
Program ? MB
Lukasz

Thanks to my running SBSH weather, SBSH pocket breezee and pocket plus I get down to about 20Mb free before I've even done anything!

In my case, running SPB Diary, SPB Pocket Plus and PocketZenPhone leaves me with 25Mb RAM free.
But, please do not forget that:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Init also contains services that are launched and that come out of the RAM
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Services also contains services & apps that are launched and that come out of the RAM
I am curious to see how much memory will be free when booted up in safe mode

Wiz said:
I am curious to see how much memory will be free when booted up in safe mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can I do that?
Breki

Lucasz...
RAM: 64Mb
Flash 128Mb
Storage: 43.72Mb
Storage Tot: 43.72
Storage Used: 9.50
Storage Free: 34.22
Program Tot: 47.93
Program Used: 17.64
Program Free: 30.29
Although after a soft reset, I think there's more free Program memory.
Am in a hurry to get home for the football now though...back later!

Does anyone have any rec's. for applications that can break down memory usage on a per process basis (like the windows task manager)? I'd like to see which ones are the memory hogs and decide if I really do need them... I hear pocket plus is a killer!

Memory management...
Hmmm, Just to stop for a little while on the "Program" memory subject -
After few hours of regular use I have verified that have 15.11 MB available, after RunningPrograms \STOP ALL there was 15.21, but after softreset there is 19.79 ! so there is definately some kind of the unlisted or "system" proceses which steal RAM. I hope it will be solved in the future releases of the system. Some kind of the task manager to see what is going on would be a nice thing. Luk

tintoy said:
Does anyone have any rec's. for applications that can break down memory usage on a per process basis (like the windows task manager)? I'd like to see which ones are the memory hogs and decide if I really do need them... I hear pocket plus is a killer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i read somewhere on here that memmaid works fine in wm5, that shows processess running and alot of other info

MDAPro Just a few questions?

Forgive me for not really being able to search deeply into this matter, I've seen threads detailing updating with the JasJar ROM or an amalgamation of the the MDA/O2 ROM.
1) I have 43.72mb total storage and 47.93mb Program storage. This results in 91.65mb total storage??? Right, at 128megs where has 40mbs gone? I have pretty much the exact same set up on the MDA3 yet the two figures more or less add up to 128mb. Can someone confirm these figures with me?
2) Is there a new ROM coming out and soon? I'm not one to complain if results are going to happen, but the memory issue is a biggy to me as there is one more program I want to install on the thing and I doubt there will be enough free memory.
3) Software, I'm sure there was a better suite of software on the MDA3 when that came out. Okay time consuming it may be but sometimes I do like to run Messenger when I'm on the train - where has it gone? And if Microsoft think I'm going to pay £10.99 more for that feature they can go swivel. I followed a thread that said it's included in Windows - it's not on the MDA Pro.
I really love the design of the thing but the software just seems to be a joke. Where do I start? I have posted the MDA3 for sale on Ebay and I want to honour that sale, but I also want a device that replaces my MDA3 100%.
This includes getting TomTom 5 to work with my BT GPS receiver!!!

1. Sorry not sure about the memory
2. I havent heard of a new T-mobile ROM being available and they never seemed to work on any updates for the MDAiii
3. The software suite was better - I miss my messenger too and like you I am reluctant to pay microsoft a tenner! The backup software isnt avialbel either which is an arse.
4. Good luck with TT5 I had to upgrade my co-pilot to get it to work on new os.

If at all possible could anyone with the MDAPro and the carrier ROM please do a memory check on theirs to compare with mine?
If you're not sure how to do it - Start/Settings/System/Memory, I just need the total figures for Storage and Program

I have the same memory CONFIG as you have stated!

In WM5 you have separate ROM & RAM configuration unlike WM2k3...
So here's how ur memory is split up -
1. RAM 64MB
Out of 64 megs of RAM, you loose roughly 17MB on internal allocation. For the device to run perfectly it has various fixed RAM permanently allocated (DMA buffers (for ur cameras etc.), kernel level memory allocation, GSM memory, video memory, mem swap space, cache etc.). This total memory fixed can vary from device to device, and each company can tweak it accordingly. Eventually, the OS has roughly 47MB for use. Now again, when WM5 powers up, it again consumes around 17megs of RAM, giving you 30-32 megs of ram to use for your programs or apps!
2. ROM 128MB (permanent storage)
This is divided into the following -
a. OS install: This is where WM5 related files etc. gets stored. This is a total of 64Megs
b. Extended ROM: This is used by maufacturers to store their customizations etc. Another 20megs allocated for this
c. User storage: This is the space available for you to install programs, and for windows to bloat Thats 43megs that you find!
Hope this clears out
Cheers,
San

Thanks for you response having had an XDA for some time and then the MDA I was just quite suprised to see a Memory low warning message so quickly as I never saw one on the MDA3. I wanted to confirm that I wasn't having memory issues.

ROM question

I have the tmobile MDA USA version. I am supposed to have 128 MB ROM. My device shows only 47.46 MB total storage 34.15 in use, and 13.32 free. I have SPB pocket plus, Avantgo, Agenda Fusion, and SK tools in main memory. Not many things want to go on the storage card. I am new to WM5, but I have had 3 Ipaqs so I am not a total rookie. Where is my storage, and whats hogging it up?

bandersnatch said:
I have the tmobile MDA USA version. I am supposed to have 128 MB ROM. My device shows only 47.46 MB total storage 34.15 in use, and 13.32 free. I have SPB pocket plus, Avantgo, Agenda Fusion, and SK tools in main memory. Not many things want to go on the storage card. I am new to WM5, but I have had 3 Ipaqs so I am not a total rookie. Where is my storage, and whats hogging it up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the marketing blurb never said you'd have 128MB free memory. you have to account for the OS and registry plus all installed apps.

Yep... basically, depending on the ROM/ExtRom/Radio Stack, etc. installed there's...
128MB total ROM
of which
44MB is available for storage of applications/user files
the rest is the operating system, extrom, etc.
and
64MB total RAM
of which
49MB is available for running programs/ memory
the rest of which is the PIM running in the background, the phone running in the background, the radio stack running in the background, etc. All stuff that either the OEM or Microsoft decided you wouldn't want not running
The real issue is that there are program that dislike running from the Storage Card. Write to the developers
( Of course, as the persistent storage is a form of flash memory, I don't see why we're not seeing phones with 512MB or 1GB built-in yet... )

That is kinda what I thought. It came with all the voice dial (which I am liking), and clearvue pdf (which I am not sure I need) bells and whistles. I guess I need to see what I can remove and what I can't. SD support seems to be lacking. I hear you when you say give the developers hell over it, but a lot of it is an OS issue I think.

I don't know if that's true... accessing files, which is pretty much all you need doing, on the MiniSD card is just fine. The only problem that I'm familiar with is that the driver starts after other bits, so any applications that run on startup may have issues. That much might be the OS's fault, but it might be the OEM's fault for putting the driver initialization where it is...

Leave the technical stuff to you guys
If you look at my profile, you will know that as soon as we start getting more than 6 inches deep into the thing, I am gonna start to get in trouble. My OS comment was intuitive and a gut feeling. I have no idea if it is accurate. I kinda understand about the memory, but I am imagining it as physical substance using physical space, etc.

program memory question

Hi everyone,
am quite new to these boards, and have only just got myself a secondhand xda IIs. In the last half a yer I have owned a HTC hermes, universal & kaiser but have finally settled on the BA because the design just suits me more. So far so good- am very happy!
I am a complete noob though and having just upgraded to WM6 from WM2003SE (following the WIKI guide & wizard) I am a bit puzzled about my phomnes' memory capacity and what goes where....
Reading over the forum I have heard how the reformating of exended rom (?) etc can increase your available storage to 128mb as part of the upgrade process. This I did with the unlocker and formatting tool. But upon upgradeing it seems I have only 64mb available for storage , but 100mb for 'programs'.... I am a bit confused. To make it worse when I load programs on the phone it actually reduces the storage capacity available rather than the 'program' memory- of which I have 75mb free that I can't seem to get at!! Can anyone please tell me what I am doing wrong or else point me in the direction of where I can educate myself about this? ....I know it is a very basic question, but am a complete novice to pdas since the last 6 months so please don't flame me!!
Thanks

Think of this in desktop computer terms.
Storage == hard drive
Program memory == RAM
explanation:
programs are installed to either storage or storage card. programs run using program memory.

hey tnx, i was looking for such info too tnx m8 for the help

Thanks! Crystal clear now!

one (or so) more quetion...
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)

I think you may have missed the point: storage is flash memory, program memory is RAM. The difference is that pre-WM5 flash memory held your vanilla system, Extended ROM, and the default (for hard reset). Everything else that you customised or installed went into RAM, which was therefore split between storage of programs and data and program memory. Remember how when your battery went flat your device lost everything? That's why, and why a backup battery was needed. WM5 and later devices do not need or have backup batteries.
Since WM5 all programs and user data are stored in flash: this can make performance slower but ensures that you survive a power failure unscathed. There are ways to get round the performance issues, compressing files with UPX saves space AND time because reading a smaller file from flash is obviously quicker, and expanding it in RAM goes very fast indeed. However I would not want to overstate the performance hit that you experience working from flash.
So this is why you have lost the ability to manage the memory split - it's nothing to worry about and indeed I am very pleased because my BA now has more program memory than my Hermes.
Hope this helps!
jbn

ssjw1000 said:
Hi- quick folow up question if anyone has the time to answer...
So I understand I have 64mb storage- but in WM2003 you could allocate how much to put to RAM & how much to put to storgae right? So therefore if I had lots of apps I wanted to load onto the phone and I needed more storage I could just reallocate. Was there not a way in the whole upgrade process to allocate less than 128mb to RAM so that I have more storage? I think I missed something here. If it is safe to have less than 128mb RAM i think I may go back and do the repartitioning thing again. Some advice would be much appreciated.
If so my question is why is it recommended to have 128mb RAM- would reducing it to less than that cause the phone to run too slow under WM6?? Is there a 'safe' guideline for minimum amount of RAM to allocate? Further clarification would be greatly appreciated! (As I see it I have lost some 'storgare' capacity this way, beecause programs excluded from the WM6 rom, eg powerpoint etc , be reloaded and so eat away at my new storage of 64mb)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In addition to jbn's answer above you can also use a ROM that has a RAMDISK. This takes a portion of the RAM and creates a folder that you can use as a filesystem. Many people prefer these, I do not. I use my SD card and my onboard storage and have no problems with space. If you decide to go with a RAMDISK enabled ROM beware that you will loose anything you install to that section of the filesystem if your batter and backup batter go dead. Exactly the same behavior you had with WM2003 in your BA originally.