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Hi guys,
i have a SGH-i780 Smartphone and i am quite happy with it. The only negative aspect is short battery lifetime when beeing always online for push-mail.
Therefore i would like to have a docking station for my device, where i place it and it is been charged. But as the f******g Samsung developers placed the charge/sync connector on the upper right side of the device i would always have to place it in docking and connect charge cable.
Therefore i thought about modifying the phone which means making the 3 battery connectors accessbile from outside to connect the external charger box (including charging electronic!).
And here is my question: do you think connecting a charging electronic directly to the battery while it is inside the phone will harm or destroy parts of the phone? I am wondering whether the internal charging circuit inside the phone will get hurt by connecting another circuit in parallel ...
Thanks for your comments!
For sure this could hurt your device...............
In this case I'd say the risk isn't worth the reward. The risk is that you fry your phone, and at worst it sparks and causes other damage. You can have it check for mail less often, unless you need your email to be live.
such heavy modifications never go without harm to technology.
It simply is not designed to work that way, so you'd be better off with a docking station or a better Powerpack.
You can find those on Ebay for pretty low prices...
thanks for your replies!
I also thought about wiring the +5V and GND pins from the USB connector to the bottom of the device and connect a power supply directly (which but be the way it is thought to be) but the usb connector is very very tiny and i doubt i will be able to connect and solder the cables to the right pins ...
any furhter ideas?
not really no... trying such delicate soldering quests is generally not a good idea without the proper Equipment.
Whatever you do to modify your phone, it will void your warranty and you'll not get a replacement device if you trash yours...
Don't do this!
By bypassing the phone's own charging circuit you are removing any sort of overvolt protection!
Although I am not familiar with this phone and your post is somewhat hard to understand, I take you usually sync it, then take the battery out to charge that separately with another cable?
If that is the case then, no, don't move the connector so you can charge directly to the battery! It will be potentially very bad for the battery and phone.
Out of the question
DO NOT under any circumstances play with your battery.
What you were taught in your physics class do not apply to microelectronics!
There are many 5V+ out there and ALL are different!
While rms value is the same, the waveforms of the current/voltage can be any imagineable. So, the best thing to do near your cradle is to pin a sign "KEEP OUT!"
Technically, you could create another charger that connects directly to the battery. There are dozens of ways.
BUT, since you asked, then you don't understand how. Assuming it is a liPo or LiIon battery, if you charge it wrong, the resulting explosion and fire will be nasty.
Why not get a second battery in an external charger, and just swap them.
worwig said:
Technically, you could create another charger that connects directly to the battery. There are dozens of ways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean while it's inside the phone?
worwig said:
BUT, since you asked, then you don't understand how. Assuming it is a liPo or LiIon battery, if you charge it wrong, the resulting explosion and fire will be nasty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already have another appropriate charger because Samsung ships this phone with an charging box.
worwig said:
Why not get a second battery in an external charger, and just swap them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because then i would always have to take a second battery with me, every time! That's awful!
I just want to have a docking station, that charges the phone while it's plugged in ... without terrible wiring needed. Then i can make sure the phone is always fully charged when taking it.
I attached 2 pictures showing you my 2 ideas:
1) wiring the external charger directly to the battery (but of course this would also mean connecting it directly to the internal charging circuit of the phone!). I fear this would damage the phone!
2) wiring the power supply to the power supply connector. This should definitely work, but soldering the cables on the tiny connector will be a pain!
Thanks for your help!
I just noticed that there is a pair of contacts on the inside of battery cover and matching spring loaded contacts in the housing, next to the lower left and right corners of the battery. Anybody knows what are they for?
If they are really electrical, is it possible to detect from software if the bettery cover is removed? Not that this could be used for anything useful, but just curious if that's possible.
vponomarev said:
I just noticed that there is a pair of contacts on the inside of battery cover and matching spring loaded contacts in the housing, next to the lower left and right corners of the battery. Anybody knows what are they for?
If they are really electrical, is it possible to detect from software if the bettery cover is removed? Not that this could be used for anything useful, but just curious if that's possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just guessing but I know that the first version of the car kit involved replacing the back cover....so...I'm guessing it relates to having the car kit plugged in and just putting the phone in the kit without needing to attach a cable in the phone each time.
Did I mention that I'm just guessing.
n11 - Good guess.
Thanks for the tip. So, from what I understand, these contacts are for power supply, correct?
vponomarev said:
Thanks for the tip. So, from what I understand, these contacts are for power supply, correct?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...since Mega Maniac has given such strong support to my guessing ability I'll answer this way: Yep, I guess the contacts are for the power supply.
The contacts are probably for proper grounding since the battery cover is metal. It would be bad to have a static charge differential build up on the cover take out the circuit board. Or it may be that the cove is the antenna. But I doubt that. Just my opinion.
I was thinking within the same line, but more like bettery cover being a shield to prevent any external radio interference. But power connector theory sounds more reasonable. I'm NOT going to verify this theory by applying 5V to these contacts.
vponomarev said:
I was thinking within the same line, but more like bettery cover being a shield to prevent any external radio interference. But power connector theory sounds more reasonable. I'm NOT going to verify this theory by applying 5V to these contacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm now guessing that you are a very smart person...grin.
Just for the record I dont have the HTC navigation car mount, but if you are talking about the teo connections either side of the back cover then I cant see what else it would be. Essentially my opinion is as much of a guess as n11, but I would bet my HD2 on it, because there is just about nothing else it could be.
I'd like to know for certain what these are for as well.
Grounding
These connectors are probably grounding, if you see on the cover the paint is striped away where the connectors meets the cover.
If this was in anyway connected to the battery for charging it would short out the battery since the cover is made of metal.
Just Checked With my multimeter and there is a direct connection between the two points, and also between the screws and the two points, so grounding it is.
It's been a pending project of mine to try to accurately measure what is using the battery.
Yes, there are all kinds of numbers that you can get off the battery stats,
but to be able to see in real-time and kill/disable things is helpful.
Moreover, there is a continuing problem of Nooks not sleeping sometimes.
I'd really like to get a handle on that.
Measuring current into the USB charging port will not give you a realistic measurement.
The best way is to measure the battery current using a "battery eliminator".
That's a power supply that hooks into where the battery was.
One of the problems is hacking the battery ID and NTC thermistor so that the device will think that a battery is connected.
Here's my layout that I just got working.
Battery connector is a 6 pin JST SH from SparkFun.
I do have numbers coming off it right now.
I need to write some host software to plot a scrolling graph.
Very nice Renate! But 6-pin! Sound quite a lot, perhaps 2 pins are the same?
It would be interesting to know what gas-gauge that battery is using. I posted
something about this HERE (for a different device/battery).
The Nook pinout is:
Code:
1 red battery
2 red battery
3 yellow temperature (10K NTC thermistor to ground)
4 green ID (30K to ground)
5 black ground
6 black ground
This has been verified to the extent that the Nook won't boot up on a power supply without two resistors.
Also, I can play with the thermistor resistor and get freezing or boiling temperature.
Are you reading actual current draw through the battery, or using the power supply current along with the battery?
Parallel connections can not supply actual current draw measurements, you must be connected and read this measurement in series only. Voltage is able to be read in parallel.
Charge rate is also read through the thermistor, as a change ( or delta) of the actual current fed to the battery, and adjusted to compensate for charge level, and current capacity of the battery as a single cell.
Temperature comes into play, and this is the job of the temp probe (thermistor), and is fed back to the charge controller.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Look, Ma, no battery!
AECRADIO said:
Are you reading actual current draw through the battery...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery? What battery?
That 6 pin plug is going in where the battery was.
At 4V, peak current at boot is around 250 mA.
Lowest idle current measured is 8 mA.
battery current/voltage
I was not suggesting there was a battery connected currently, but was curious on how current was measured.
I saw the configuration you posted, and without seeing the setup up close, the pic does not detail the method used to decipher battery current witth the setup you supplied. Power supplies do not suffer from actual current drain as the supply is always constant, and should the supply be robust enough, there should be no sag in current level over actual draw. I see why you did this, and I was simply trying to figure out the method used to measure actual battery current draw, nothing more.
Thank you for the information.
There are 3 ways to measure current.
The first is to use a current transformer, this only works with AC currents.
The second is a Hall effect sensor.
The third is the tried-and-true method of inserting as small a resistor as possible inline and measuring the voltage across it.
The resistor can be in the hot lead or the ground lead of the low.
This is referred to as high-side or low-side monitoring.
High side monitoring is more desired because you have a single "ground" voltage.
Most small DC power converters do not have accurate, accessible current measurement.
For example, a normal PC power supply can not measure the current on the 5V or 12V.
I bought the specific DC converter that I use because it offers a constant current mode and the measuring resistor was visible in the photo.
I had presumed that it was high-side monitoring because I thought they would have mentioned it in the product description if it were not.
I found out that it was low-side monitoring.
That means that the input "ground" pin is not the same as the output "ground" pin.
In fact, that small resistor is the connection between the two.
The INA219B has a differential input that goes to the measurement resistor.
It is generally used as a high-side monitor because it is designed to handle the high common mode voltages up to 26V.
Yes, you can use it to measure low-side monitoring, but then you lose the auxiliary ability to measure the supply voltage.
Since the measurement resistor goes straight across the two "grounds" I can measure the voltage at the PCB terminals instead of soldering into the measurement resistor.
Of course at the low resistances involved this adds additional resistance which must be calibrated out.
The resistor on the PC board is 0.050 ohms.
I can and will add an external 0.050 resistor on the high side to enable me to measure current and voltage simultaneously with a single INA219B.
Of course, this will add 100 mV drop to the supply at a 2 A drain.
I'll break out the voltage sense of the supply to the far end of the external resistor and that drop will be compensated for.
Current measurement.
Renate NST said:
There are 3 ways to measure current.
The first is to use a current transformer, this only works with AC currents.
The second is a Hall effect sensor.
The third is the tried-and-true method of inserting as small a resistor as possible inline and measuring the voltage across it.
The resistor can be in the hot lead or the ground lead of the low.
This is referred to as high-side or low-side monitoring.
High side monitoring is more desired because you have a single "ground" voltage.
Most small DC power converters do not have accurate, accessible current measurement.
For example, a normal PC power supply can not measure the current on the 5V or 12V.
I bought the specific DC converter that I use because it offers a constant current mode and the measuring resistor was visible in the photo.
I had presumed that it was high-side monitoring because I thought they would have mentioned it in the product description if it were not.
I found out that it was low-side monitoring.
That means that the input "ground" pin is not the same as the output "ground" pin.
In fact, that small resistor is the connection between the two.
The INA219B has a differential input that goes to the measurement resistor.
It is generally used as a high-side monitor because it is designed to handle the high common mode voltages up to 26V.
Yes, you can use it to measure low-side monitoring, but then you lose the auxiliary ability to measure the supply voltage.
Since the measurement resistor goes straight across the two "grounds" I can measure the voltage at the PCB terminals instead of soldering into the measurement resistor.
Of course at the low resistances involved this adds additional resistance which must be calibrated out.
The resistor on the PC board is 0.050 ohms.
I can and will add an external 0.050 resistor on the high side to enable me to measure current and voltage simultaneously with a single INA219B.
Of course, this will add 100 mV drop to the supply at a 2 A drain.
I'll break out the voltage sense of the supply to the far end of the external resistor and that drop will be compensated for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at the device's ratings, I see how you are performing the measurement, using the shunt to measure current, taking loss into consideration.
The '219B is the more precise of the two I looked at. Common-Mode rejection is good, @ 100 dB, which essentially removes the device from the circuit, and you get a more pure reading, without the inherent noise from the device while it is operating.
Differential swing is full range, and Common-Mode is normal with a reduced voltage range from -0.3 V to +26 V as you would not have a negative-leading current or voltage with a battery powered device, so the negative readings are inconsequential and of little use, unless you plan on shorting the battery to ground for some reason, or attempting to measure negative I/V.
Do your findings to date match those of the factory-defined measurements for current drain and battery life?
There are times I find manufacturer specs to be a little more lenient than accurate, but give a good, overall idea on performance while in real-time operation.
Are you able to identify the time required to charge your battery from depletion to full charge, and how long this takes?
What is your actual current draw while charging, and does the voltage change dramatically during charge, IE: +3.2 V depleted/charge begin, to +4.4 V end-of-charge state.
I hope you will post all of your findings/readings so others will understand what you have done, and why.
I am certain there are plenty of interested parties awaiting your report.
To make this a little more understandable, here's the Texas Instrument data sheet for the actual device:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina219.pdf
There are two types, with identical pins, only transposed, so one can flip one bug over on its back if necessary.
I'm still using the serial out of the ATMega32u4 right now to get the data.
I have to switch that to USB HID so that I can free up the USB com cable to use for the console monitor.
I (mostly) finished up the scrolling host GUI.
The Y scale is adjustable with mouse scroll wheel.
The X axis is 5 seconds for the minor divisions, 30 seconds for the major divisions.
Here's an interesting example from my Nook sitting idle on the launcher.
The big spikes every 60 seconds are the display updating the clock in the status bar.
The 40 mA or so square waves are a mystery.
However, the big surprise is from the left to the right side of the graph.
The device was fresh booted, the left side is showing a minimum of 95 mA.
The right side is showing a minimum of 10 mA.
That's a major difference.
What caused it to change? A ping over WiFi. (See the 4 little spikes.)
Something is clearly wrong.
This all goes to show that ps and top won't tell you where your current is going.
Edit: It's running on USB HID sensor now and in a case.
The strange 5 second 40 mA waves have been traced down, if not explained.
I'm running a console on a UART with a USB serial adapter.
Normally the dmesg comes streaming out the console.
When you hit a single key on the console, it gets eaten and a 5 second timeout begins during which 40 mA more are consumed.
If another key is hit during this time, it is actually processed by the console shell.
This also extends the 5 second timeout.
By continuously typing the 40 mA excess never times out.
Clearly there is a bug somewhere. It could be a wait loop eating CPU (and current).
So why the randomness?
The stock software has this on ttyS0, which does not have any level shifters.
I reconfigured this to be ttyS1 which has 3.3V level shifters.
If I don't have a console UART cable connected the RX in flaps in the breeze without a pullup.
Random noise causes 5 second 40 mA waves.
Could you dig out the schematics or model name of that huge buck 4V buck converter? I like it.
The CV/CC buck power supply is from eBay
The INA219B and a small SOIC8 breakout board were from DigiKey.
The 0.050 ohm resistor was from a small ebay seller.
(I can dig out the details later if you are interested.)
I scavenged some acrylic "light pipes" out of a power strip.
They are 3mm or 1/8" in diameter and about 15mm or 5/8" in length.
The have a flange that mounts with glue to the underside of the panel.
If somebody knows where I could find more of these?
They are the perfect size to route the LED lights out of the power supply.
Thank you! I am interested in the solution in general as soon I'll need to make similar measurement setup for few embedded devices. I might go with LDO converter though to maximize accuracy of power source (though the 50mv ripple doesn't seem to matter in this kind of solution THAT much, whatcha think?)
Are you planning to opensource I(t) GUI when it's ready? ; >
//edit: oh yea - LED pipes stuff http://www.mouser.com/Mobile/Optoelectronics/LED-Indication/LED-Light-Pipes/_/N-b1d20
One of the advantages to using a buck converter over a linear regulator is that you can short the output for fun.
This is a convenient way to set the current limiting.
I have a shorting plug for just such a purpose.
@Rebellos: Thanks for the hint on light pipes.
I had (wrongly) presumed that they were all custom manufactured pieces.
I got a ZTE Awe at a Black Friday price of $20 so I'm playing with that.
I made a "fake battery" out of a Radio Shack 1" x 2" x 3" project enclosure front panel.
The panel has ridges that fit the battery compartment width perfectly.
I cut the length down about 1/2".
The battery contacts are on 0.1" centers, so using a bit of perfboard as a template I drilled some holes in the cover.
I stuck a 3 pin header through the holes, glued it and soldered wires.
The central pin needed about a 47K resistor to ground to look like the thermistor.
Directly to the left (on the small photo) is a 5 hole place for factory pogo pins.
3 of the pins are a direct connect to the battery connector.
2 of the pins are running about 1.8V.
They could be contact closures or I2C or UART or who knows what.
Not enough pins for SPI or JTAG.
So one thing that I have been wondering about is the current draw from your USB audio adapter. I was specifically wanting to know the battery life while listening to music with the screen turned off. I seem to remember there being a draw of 150mA if the Nook is in host mode, period. If so, is this some sort of software inefficiency, is it contingent on the USB audio adapter, or is it something else entirely? My ultimate goal is to use the Nook heavily as an MP3 player, even if that means honing some rookie Java skills.
@t_0_0_l: Apperently the Nook is running in a tight loop.
It eats up that much current just in USB mode with nothing connected.
Getting slightly off tangent here, but this info could be useful to someone.
The mystery 2 pins on the 5 pin connector on the back of the ZTE Awe
prove to be contact closures to ground for VolumeUp and Reset.
The VolumeUp pin is directly in parallel to the side pushbutton.
Powering up the Awe with VolumeUp pressed sets it in FTM mode.
This works well if you increase battery size
Just a quick thanks for this post...
Renate NST said:
The Nook pinout is:
Code:
1 red battery
2 red battery
3 yellow temperature (10K NTC thermistor to ground)
4 green ID (30K to ground)
5 black ground
6 black ground
This has been verified to the extent that the Nook won't boot up on a power supply without two resistors.
Also, I can play with the thermistor resistor and get freezing or boiling temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just completed a project to root a Nook ST and convert it into a flight computer... As I'm a new user you'll just have to cut and paste vimeo.com/67223752 into your browser to see an old iteration of this in action.
Connected to the internal UART input I have used a couple of different serial GPS modules... one with a barometric sensor as well. Soldering is a bit tricky but achievable for someone with a bit of practice.
I used a "3.7v 4000mah Replacement Battery for 7'' Scroll Explore Tablet" from eBay as a replacement battery for the existing Nook ST battery, with a couple of resistors that were somewhat similar in value to the above (just what I had lying around). These were soldered inline to 'hack' the new battery so the Nook would accept it. So, with the GPS module running and software on full power/refresh mode, the Nook runs for something like 10+ hours continuously when I tested it (the unmodified version returns 4 hours). This is what you'd expect with the original battery having 1500mah. The case did need to be modified fairly extensively to fit the new 'fat' battery. Although I have no doubt that I could cook up a 3D printed back, it would require kit that I don't have to scan the existing one to a high degree of accuracy before I could mod it. So, I hacked a big chunk out of the middle of the back and then stuck a new flat plate on top of that, which provided the extra mm or so of depth needed for this fatter battery.
So, anyway, if you are thinking of fitting a huge battery to the Nook ST big thanks to Renate for this info as it works very well. The new battery does indeed charge without any issues. The only issue it seems to have with mine is that the battery percentage is a bit random (as I assume that is set in the firmware to correspond with the existing hardware). The battery I'm using has its own protection circuitry on it, so likely the Nook can't really understand what is happening. Proof of the pudding is really in the length of time you have to play with device before it gives up, and obviously with a battery this big you don't need to worry about power saving measures!!
As this project is a mix of hardware hacking and software hacking there is no one location that I can post the project to on the XDA forum as I think it falls foul of the 'no hardware' rules on the software forums and 'no hardware' on the software forums, but I suspect that there aren't many paraglider, hanglider and sailplane pilots on here for which this would be of interest anyway, but if you do want the gory detail please post up here!
Hi everyone,
few days go i bought a android player: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001475429868.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.68965c0fBhleYi
and i have some problems with that.
I installed it in my Ford Mondeo / Fusion 2013 with additional display "Converse+".
I plugged my new radio correctly and after first start the machine everything was ok. But after second starting the A/C panel lost the communication with the car and i cant use the A/C panel anymore...
There is one option to resolve that: Unplug car battery and plug it - after that, the AC pan will work again with the first start of the machine, but after second will not working.
Can u help me? Where is the problem? I tried to switch between many Canbus options but the result was the same.
If you need more Information, let me know which one do you need.
Thank you in advance
Hi, is the unit an MTCD/E?
Also, what did the reseller suggest when contacted for support?
If you disconnect power just to the new radio does the air conditioning panel work? Does the panel work as expected with every stop and start of the engine without the radio connected? An easy way to disconnect the radio and verify may be to pull the radio fuse.
The problem with pulling battery cable is that you effectively power off everything in the car and that doesn't isolate just the radio as the exclusive source of the problem.
Have you contacted the reseller as your particular unit could be defective. Since you probably are within the return period, an exchange or return might be in order.
I think that radio has no impact to my issue. When the A/C stopped working, i unplugged the power of radio and nothing changed.
Only when I unplug the A/C panel and plug it back in does everything start working.
When i contacted to reseller he told me only that i should choose another one canbus setting - but it doesnt start to work.
I added two picture of the plugs in this radio and a/c panel.
It's kinda weird but i changed canbus option for (MAX 06-20) instead of mondeo and now it's working for few hours and it looks good. It looks like the canbus option was bad, buuuuuuut... i had this canbus selected few days ago and it worked for more than one day. After that one day the A/C panel lost communication and it stopped to work. I think, that the situation will be again the same this time - i mean that tomorrow it will not be working.
PoppaRoxie1986 said:
If you disconnect power just to the new radio does the air conditioning panel work? Does the panel work as expected with every stop and start of the engine without the radio connected? An easy way to disconnect the radio and verify may be to pull the radio fuse.
The problem with pulling battery cable is that you effectively power off everything in the car and that doesn't isolate just the radio as the exclusive source of the problem.
Have you contacted the reseller as your particular unit could be defective. Since you probably are within the return period, an exchange or return might be in order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I contacted with the reseller but with no results. Im not sure if that radio is defective, because i know at least 3 people, who have the same issue as me - so everyone has the defective unit? May be.
I contacted with man who checked everything and he said that there is two options: can module software or even can module is broken. The problem is here, that the can module is inside the radio so i cant even change it.
So this is question for you: do u know how can i 'update' the can module software?
Please for some advices..
Bring in a dedicated V+ and ground for it.
You may have inadvertantly created a ground loop, made the V+ "dirty" and/or created an excessive voltage drop on the V+.
Don't daisy chain the V+ or ground; bring it straight off the fuse block or battery terminal with heavy gauge wire. The ground can probably come off the common grounding point used for the A/C or a main ground point on the firewall.
blackhawk said:
Bring in a dedicated V+ and ground for it.
You may have inadvertantly created a ground loop, made the V+ "dirty" and/or created an excessive voltage drop on the V+.
Don't daisy chain the V+ or ground; bring it straight off the fuse block or battery terminal with heavy gauge wire. The ground can probably come off the common grounding point used for the A/C or a main ground point on the firewall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeap, i thought about this and it will resolve my issue for sure, but what about car battery? This solution will not take too much battery?
so basically there is no other solution? i think you're right. The voltage (somehow) dropped down and the can module lost the communication - it's reasonable
misiek43210 said:
Yeap, i thought about this and it will resolve my issue for sure, but what about car battery? This solution will not take too much battery?
so basically there is no other solution? i think you're right. The voltage (somehow) dropped down and the can module lost the communication - it's reasonable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a question of current draw, it's an issue of clean power. A thicker gauge wire is best.
A ground and V+ coming straight off the battery if you're really paranoid or have dirty power*. A twisted pair (use a drill about 8-12 turns a foot) of 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire should do it, put a fuse on the battery end.
A line filter can also be used but the sourcing/wiring is the most important step.
You may need to sheild your new toy if it's emitting rf that's causing the issue in nearby components.
An oscilloscope be helpful to see what's going on.
*autos are notoriously electrically noisy environments with nasty high voltage spikes, AC ripple, rf, all kinds of junk.
blackhawk said:
It's not a question of current draw, it's an issue of clean power. A thicker gauge wire is best.
A ground and V+ coming straight off the battery if you're really paranoid or have dirty power*. A twisted pair (use a drill about 8-12 turns a foot) of 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire should do it, put a fuse on the battery end.
A line filter can also be used but the sourcing/wiring is the most important step.
You may need to sheild your new toy if it's emitting rf that's causing the issue in nearby components.
An oscilloscope be helpful to see what's going on.
*autos are notoriously electrically noisy environments with nasty high voltage spikes, AC ripple, rf, all kinds of junk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, thats sounds good.
So i have to find dedicated V+ - but V+ even when the key is not in the ignition?
Sorry, my questions could be stupid, but i'm really newbie in this.
Anyway, many thanks for your help!!!
misiek43210 said:
Ok, thats sounds good.
So i have to find dedicated V+ - but V+ even when the key is not in the ignition?
Sorry, my questions could be stupid, but i'm really newbie in this.
Anyway, many thanks for your help!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can come off the hot side of the fuse block* or directly from the battery if you really want to go the extra mile.
Using a stranded heavy gauge twisted pair V+/ground will help to sheild it. Solder or properly crimp the connections.
Shielding for assemblies is simple; a piece of sheet metal, metal box etc securely attached to the car chassis (ground).
*if the main fuse block is under the hood it may be easier to use the battery. Do Not come off the alternator though.
And the same situation. As i said yesterday, today it will not work and i were right.
Maybe there is another option to resolve that? for example new can module software? or this is only problem with V+?
misiek43210 said:
And the same situation. As i said yesterday, today it will not work and i were right.
Maybe there is another option to resolve that? for example new can module software? or this is only problem with V+?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firmware will not fix a power issue.
You need clean power and a good ground.
Automotive grounding uses many points on the chassis. This can lead to ground loops. A potential issue for aftermarket add ons.
On the V+ side daisy chaining off the fuse block is a common practice and can cause voltage drops as well "dirty" power. Usually coming directly off the fuse block and using one of the main dash or firewall grounding points is sufficient. Otherwise come directly off the battery terminal especially for the V+.
Again using a twisted heavy gauge pair off the battery will help to sheild it and prevent excessive voltage drops.
Any amps etc that are tied in should all have the --same- common grounding point and their V+ coming from the dedicated V+ wire. Extremely heavy current drawing amps should have their own V+ wire.
Both V+ and ground wires need to be heavy.
Battery>heavy gauge wire>common tapp rather than daisy chaining all with one wire.
Always use stranded wire, minimum #12, heavier than that is better. Make sure it's fused on the + source end!
misiek43210 said:
Hi everyone,
few days go i bought a android player: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001475429868.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.68965c0fBhleYi
and i have some problems with that.
I installed it in my Ford Mondeo / Fusion 2013 with additional display "Converse+".
I plugged my new radio correctly and after first start the machine everything was ok. But after second starting the A/C panel lost the communication with the car and i cant use the A/C panel anymore...
There is one option to resolve that: Unplug car battery and plug it - after that, the AC pan will work again with the first start of the machine, but after second will not working.
Can u help me? Where is the problem? I tried to switch between many Canbus options but the result was the same.
If you need more Information, let me know which one do you need.
Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the device an mtce/d
marchnz said:
Is the device an mtce/d
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have checked it right know and.. Its Not even MTC X... Look at this. Do u know what **** is this?
misiek43210 said:
I have checked it right know and.. Its Not even MTC X... Look at this. Do u know what **** is this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think its an FYT device - I'll ask a mod to move it to the Android Head units forum, that way your post will get more exposure.
I have a VS995 and this replacement battery. I'm getting less than 2 hours of SOT with both Lineage 18.1 offical and the new project lighthouse ROM at less than 50% brightness. I have greenify and ACC installed with magisk as well as no gapps. Any idea how to fix the drain?
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Hello ROMSG,
Can you confirm the battery is drained vs being read as drained? You could try measuring the voltage on battery contacts before and after to confirm.
Or, since this would not hurt, without even confirming, for fun, try and clean out your USB port and the C end of the USB cable with strong alcohol, and then compressed air. Dry for sure - leave it in the sun for a while laying on or right next to some table salt.
Why:
I just finished analyzing a thread with unrelated issue, but there, it seems to me that bad USB port was causing get this: low reading from otherwise good battery (or actually create a drain - dark current on the USB connector itself). No idea why, but must be connected somehow.
I had re-soldered USB port twice in the past and once the power switch on my own devices, so it would not surprise me at all that those internal components would fail. And I am kind of super precise in how insert the cable, just time, I guess.
Funny how things work. Today I received a phone I bought from eBay for $50, because it was "Google FRP Locked". Mint black H918, no water damage. I thought I'd use the LGUP to re-load the software and may-be make it work, or something, you know, for practice learning about this stuff.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Descent2 said:
Funny how things work. Today I received a phone I bought from eBay for $50, because it was "Google FRP Locked". Mint black H918, no water damage. I thought I'd use the LGUP to re-load the software and may-be make it work, or something, you know, for practice learning about this stuff.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lg up typically causes battery drain but not like what you described. Also reflashing wont fix frp in all cases, since the versions of android on these devices is so old frp bypasses are typically a better route. I know from expierence.
LGUP does that? How weird, why? This one is also a bug, most likely.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
Descent2 said:
LGUP does that? How weird, why? This one is also a bug, most likely.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What version of android is your h918 on? I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Hi Guys,
Mine was F800L, and it seems like it have the same problem, bad connector. Even though I unplug the battery, when I plug the charger, it's drain 0.3-0.7 Amps, and it's get hot without turning on.
I am a little scary to desolder the usb port.
Yes xdanubi, replacing the USB port is a tricky deal. I have replaced few USB ports before, and this time I had only two jobs: replace a power switch on one phone and the USB port on H918. I did the power switch soldering job without issues, and I ruined the H918 in my attempt to replace the USB port.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
Here are my measurements of power consumption from a working H918 for a comparison:
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
I think your current measurements are OK. But your temperature is not OK. Try to see where the heat is coming from? IS it coming from, the CPU (felt on power button) or the USB port? In your case it would not be the battery since it is removed. It should not be the CPU either since the phone hasn't been started. I am not all that clear still on what exactly in the USB area creates the heat. It would be awesome if you could produce an InfraRed picture of the phone with the back cover off while being hot while still OFF without battery and on charger. If you have an access to the IR camera like FLIR. It may not necessarily be the port itself or it's connections. It could be one of those small SMD components next to the port that gone bad, and if that is true, replacing only the port won't help.
Descent2 said:
Here are my measurements of power consumption from a working H918 for a comparison:
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reference. Clearly, mine has hardware problems, because even after doing factory reset, the problems persist. Tried to flash the stock pie kdz, still the same result. Without battery, the current drraw arround 0.6A, with battery plugged the phone off around 1.3A, and with phone on can be as high as 1,9A.
One thing that I am still doubt about the problem though, that the usb port still functioning, both for charging and data transfer. But the strange part, when the phone is off, whenever I plugged the usb, the phone boot up, both on PC usb or charger only.
The other strange part was that when the phone got realy hot (I measure 54 with IR gun, and around 60 reading the /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zonexx/temp file, the lower part around usb port keep cool, it is the upper part that get hot.
Descent2 said:
Yes xdanubi, replacing the USB port is a tricky deal. I have replaced few USB ports before, and this time I had only two jobs: replace a power switch on one phone and the USB port on H918. I did the power switch soldering job without issues, and I ruined the H918 in my attempt to replace the USB port.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a bad eyesight and only have a cheap magnifying glass, so maybe not now. Might as well buy another v20, because the cheapest trinocular still more expensive than that phone.
Descent2 said:
I think your current measurements are OK. But your temperature is not OK. Try to see where the heat is coming from? IS it coming from, the CPU (felt on power button) or the USB port? In your case it would not be the battery since it is removed. It should not be the CPU either since the phone hasn't been started. I am not all that clear still on what exactly in the USB area creates the heat. It would be awesome if you could produce an InfraRed picture of the phone with the back cover off while being hot while still OFF without battery and on charger. If you have an access to the IR camera like FLIR. It may not necessarily be the port itself or it's connections. It could be one of those small SMD components next to the port that gone bad, and if that is true, replacing only the port won't help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly though, I don't have access to any IR cam. I do indeed try cheaper method "ouweee" test like Rossmann did, first using bare finger, then using a some drop of IPA and see where the particular component that dried up first.
As far as I can tell, the below area near charging port were fine. nothing dried up fast in the small component area near simcard, and the small component area under the fingerprint sensor. The one that heated up fast was the most left area covered with shield.
So I don't know weather it's still usb port problems or other hardware problem.
On V20, the CPU is just like on PC, is attached to the board, but touching a metal heatsink (which is the internal frame) with a healp from some pink glob of crappy looking thermo paste. Actually, the CPU itself is covered tightly with a memory chip soldered right on top of the CPU, and the roof of that is sticky-glued to a copper foil, and then that copper foil is covered with the paste glob and that is stuck to the frame.
Few points to note right here:
- the reason that V20 has thermal issues, I think, is due to poor thermal design: three interfaces (CPU --> memory chip --> copper foil --> metal frame heatsink), and each has some less than 100% efficiency in thermal energy conductivity. There might even be a fourth interface if the CPU has a lid, like that on PC, but unlikely so, most probably it's an exposed one like on the graphics cards.
- each of these thermal interfaces has it's own expiration date. At this point in time, you don't know how many of them are expired.
- hardware guys already are doubtful about the goofy looking "thermal solution" paste that is applied between copper film and the frame. How efficient was it to begin with?
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Without having to solder anything, you can relatively easily replace / thinker with the second and especially the third interface. The second will require the copper foil to be peeled off. On the phone I ruined, I threw that foil away, intending to go directly from memory chip roof to the frame, but alas, I didn't get to try that. I think that the high efficiency thermal conductive solutions such as liquid metal or diamond pastes are not good here, because there is the reason the LG used the glob of chewing gum it seems - because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the frame lacks the close tolerance required for a high efficiency conduit to work. Plus the phone has some flex to it, so even if yours happen to be aligned extremely tightly, this would keep changing. For this reason, I think the thermal conduit needs to be a high volume / flexible one, like that again, on the graphics cards. This could be a thick paste or a sticky pad.
The reason they used the copper foil and not a direct connection between the chip and the frame, I think was because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the copper foil is more precise and is much more flex stable, so, by using a higher efficiency / thinner conduit there they were aiming to help the total efficiency at least a little bit.
I wanted to clean the roof of the memory chip and use some good video card thermal paste / goo / glue / pad directly connecting it to the frame during re-assembly.
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Be careful with the screws. The screws are all different length, and when I opened mine I was following a guidance that there are two groups, but found it to be wrong as my phone seemed to have at least four groups of different screws. It was too late, however, because mine were already mixed within two groups I created. So, I would advise to create a diagram of screw location and keeping track of which screw goes where. I think that many times this phone is taken apart and put together, without this tracking, some screws end up too long for where they were placed and holding parts loosely, thus adding to the flex that might be cracking the older brittle thermal interface.
Frame Thermal Interface Touch Point:
Peeling Off the Copper Foil:
Copper Foil is Removed - Roof of the Memory Exposed :
xdanubi said:
Might as well buy another v20, because the cheapest trinocular still more expensive than that phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. The 20x binocular from AmScope on ebay is around $190. Since Iam only an amateur, I am considering building a DIY usb webcam based microscope like the one EEV blog had reviewed or better. Reading about optics now, - I am an absolute newbie to optics design.
Amazon has this phone "new" for $70 with varying reviews. Might just try that, since on e-bay or Swappa you'd likely get a phone someone from XDA already "worked with" for a while.
I too am baffled with why some phones do turn on spontaneously when charger is connected. From my experience with PCs, this usually indicates:
-- bad BIOS battery
(is there a BIOS battery cell on a phone? Yes, I know there was one on Galaxy, maybe there is one on V20 as well?) This would not generate any heat though.
-- bad corrupted BIOS
(we are on XDA, lol. Should we really try throwing this stone?) But really, maybe a full reflashing should help? I mean a complete, like a full KDZ, not just wiping of data partition which is what a factory reset really is. BUT YOU ALREADY TRIED THIS
-- some dried out capacitors around power on circuits (this one can create heat)
Again, FLIR is needed for this. Or careful thermal probing of SMD components with board being fully connected while outside of the case and plastic housing. Once a hot one is found this could be examined further.
Some research directions here...
xdanubi said:
The one that heated up fast was the most left area covered with shield.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you show which area was heating up:
xdanubi said:
Without battery, the current draw is around 0.6A, with battery plugged the phone off around 1.3A, and with phone on can be as high as 1,9A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You clearly have about 0.3 A to 0.6 A dark current. Something is consuming this energy and dissipating it into heat. When capacitors are shot they now represent a short on the circuit where there not supposed to be one. Such short will now create this dark current.
Capacitors fail due to old age, high heat (vicious circle), and bad power supplies that deliver spikes and poorly filtered power. Big electrolytic capacitors dry out, explode, leak, but SMD capacitors fail too - they crack and melt.
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciwMsWX_Y4
There could be other failed components, it's just that capacitors are ubiquitous in this regard.
Descent2 said:
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do remove the board, to see if there's any clear evidence of burned/short capacitors. And indeed I do have the urge to remove that pinky gummy blob, and ad some PC's cpu paste to it. But the fact that I still feel a good heat to the screen area directly below it, it means that it's still have some good heat conductivity, so I'll leave that to deal with it later.
Descent2 said:
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's one hell of BGA rework.
Descent2 said:
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I'll do it later after clearing some other problems.