Database Users

What is XDA policy here re Scammers who sell XDA hackers' software?

This community is so damn innovative and cooperative, it amazes me what software/ROMS get cooked here which really add a lot of productivity value to me, transforming a tedious, hard-to-read Windows Mobile User Interface into a tool that really works on the go. And I've been equally impressed by the collaborative spirit of this community in problem solving and feature tweeks.
Thus I am curious if there is an organized policy here that helps us end-users deter the scammers who grab software from XDA-developers, bundle it, and sell it across the web. I'm speaking of a prominent spot on the home page and within the information design of these forums that, just like the "Missing Kids" alerts on milk cartons, highlights prominently the latest scammers stealing work here.
I understand this forum is for actual development, but truth is this issue gets lost in "General" forums. Because it's the people who hack here who are the people being hurt directly.
Though I signed onto XDA over a year ago, and have read volumes re my T-mobile MDA and software upgrades here, I ended up being nonetheless too nervous to follow the very clear instructions posted last year with all if the various WM 6 roms developed here. And I never did upgrade.
But I have a WING now, and I wanted an iphone theme and user interface. Again I read all the sticky threads for the Herald, as well as the links from the wiki for that specific phone. After several days of trying to figure out "should I be first flashing my T-mobile ROM to a more efficient one, before then seeking to install one of the iphone themes and apps like A_C's S2U2 etc. I then did a dumb consumer thing: when searching this site using Google, I followed the links to one or two of the GOOGLE AD-WORDS hawking an iPhone theme on your PocketPC.
Long story short, I got scammed of $10 for something that was outdated and didn't even install properly on my WING... But I'd been "comforted" by the presentation on their website, http://iphonethemeforpocketpc.com , thinking I would get my head cleared of the confusion that mounts when I'd dig down deep into the many discussions of so many ROMs & themes & apps here. I got burned, that was bad enough. But it then pissed me off doubly that superior software would be found here at XDA -- and more than likely some of that guy's component cab files were simply stolen from developers right here.
I ended up back here and successfully installed the ifonz theme, A_C's S2U2 (the scam site had an old slide2unlock version... bit as everyone here knows, A_C's app is superb. I also installed Contact Manager (amazing!), PCM keyboard (what an improvement over windows), and MortPlayer (fantastic). I intend to donate to each program author.
But the purpose of this post is this: I filed a dispute with PayPal (requires login) over this scammer's non-working product and absolute refusal to even reply to my early "friendly" emails seeking install help. Went through PayPal's Resolution Center "escalation process" -- after no reply from the seller to PayPal -- and my dispute became a CLAIM for Paypal to determine outcome. PayPal's reply, denying the claim, states that they reviewed all communications and investigated the issue fully (totally not true).
I could have stopped there -- afterall i'd long ago expended way more than $10 worth of my time -- but it was for the principle of it. So I called PayPal, went through all the menu-options, screenings, and hold queues, and finally spoke to an actual Resolution Agent -- who was very nice, & actually very helpful.
However: I learned then, from her, what many of you may already know -- but I wonder DOES everyone know?, because I sure didn't... She told me that anything digital or downloadable is not even covered with any Buyer Protection as disclosed in PayPal's terms of service. So the claim got closed automatically because it didn't qualify for any dispute resolution. I was really surprised by this, that no downloadable software is subject to dispute/resolution policies -- and that's why I am writing this thread, as a service (I *hope*) to all you developers.
I first did a search here on the boards for "scams", because I wanted to find a place on this site to DISPLAY CLEARLY---> Here is a scamsite --> make sure your stuff is not being sold there. That's when I saw this sampling of threads, below, and had to wonder, is there a policy here that is clear and easy to find (NO! not that I can see!) that helps developers here by giving us end-users a place to post the hit-list of scammers on ebay, on iphonetheme websites, etc. ?
If so, I missed it in the information design here. If not, I recommend it. I know it burns you guys who are being ripped off -- but it also ticks off less-sophisticated community members like me (end-users of your hard work) to see your works exploited -- given especially their innovation and performance tweeks.
Here are just a few of the threads I found from this year, from March 08, where people reported being ripped off by people selling their works. In my view, I don't think that's enough or sufficient to just have someone start a thread saying "beware of X, Y or Z". And that's why I posted this. Thanks to all of you who make the lives of end-users more productive with your great work.
q/s
Name And Shame Ebayer Stealing Xdev Material
Bastards selling my Unlocker
Thief On The Loose At Hofo and possibly xda!

wow.. no reply. well i know i'm verbose, but i thought this would at least get a reply that explained yes/no if the site has designated a specific area to broadcast who are the current scammers operating out on he internets...
Should I be posting this into a different forum? if so, which one please/ thanks

As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.

alongenemylines said:
As far as I know, there is no area warning about potential scams. There have been issues with people selling cooked roms on ebay that i'm aware of, but that normally comes up in model-specific forums.
it definitely could be helpful to have such an area on the forum, but at the same time, there have been many stickies informing people NOT to go out and sell other peoples work, and advising people against using warez and cracked programs.
Most people that have come to this forum realize there is no reason to pay for most software, as there's probably an excellent free or open source alternative. if there's not yet, someone's working on one. this forum is a mix of entusiasts, programmers, hackers, and people who just love to tweak their devices. once you come here and see the vast amounts of information, there's really no need to go anywhere else. i check the xda forums rather regularly, and pocketpcfreeware every now and again.
i don't think a scams section on the forum would help keep from people getting scammed elsewhere... they usually find this site after they've already been scammed. many of us have already taken it into our own hands, by trying to point as many people as we can here, so they can learn the beauty of free, well maintained software and roms made by people who just want to help others enjoy their devices more and more.
scammers are more like a disease... and prevention is the best medicine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been instances where its come to the attention of the community here and the developers of ROMS and programs that their work is being packaged and sold on ebay and the like. Obviously this behavior is viewed very negatively. While there is no policy or "organized" efforts to monitor and react, when someone does point out an instance, the community members rally around and do what they can to call the guy out, and warn potential scammees of it. Ebay is often notified directly, and also comments on the sellers postings on ebay are made to warn.
And yes, your post is verbose

Web 2.0 summit

Is anyone else watching the web 2.0 summit ? gingerbread is being discussed!
Sent from my Google Phone

Just tuned in. Link if anyone else is interested:
http://www.web2summit.com/web2010

Thanks paul
Sent from my Google Phone

OMG Gingerbread next few weeks.

Chrome os next few months... gingie next few weeks!
Sent from my Google Phone

Liveblog in case anyone missed it:
(Added bold / fixed spelling errors)
Live Blogging Google CEO Eric Schmidt At Web 2.0 Summit
http://searchengineland.com/live-blogging-google-ceo-eric-schmidt-at-web-2-0-summit-56025
Nov 15, 2010 at 5:31pm ET by Danny Sullivan
Google CEO Eric Schmidt will be speaking today at the Web 2.0 Summit in San Francisco. I’m here and will be live blogging his remarks, when the session begins.
Schmidt is set to speak at 2:35pm Pacific, and he’ll be interviewed on stage by John Battelle and Tim O’Reilly. Live blogging to start shortly. There’s also a live stream here.
John asks about news from a new device from Google…
Eric: we don’t make devices
John: A new device powered by software.
Eric: I have an unannounced device here. Showing an Android phone, looks like the Nexus 2 / Nexus S that’s been rumored. Showing how you tap the phone on a Google Place icon, a picture of one in real life, one that has I guess MSE? encoding, and he taps and it finds where he’s out.
This will be in the new Gingerbread operating system that will come out in the next few weeks. Secure element in it.
John: you could do payment?
Eric: Yes, industry term is tap-and-pay.
====
Idea you could take these into stores and replace credit cards.
John: There are tons and tons of credit card numbers, say Amazon has, does this change the game.
Eric: we see ourselves as a technology provider, not trying to compete with those others.
Tim: But still if you’re doing payment, someone’s doing the processing. You expect to partner in that.
Eric: Yes.
Tim: But you have Google Checkout
Eric: That’s a piece of this. Might be an NFE chip, by the way, he mentioned it again. Oh, and all your hot Android phones out there now won’t likely have this chip already so….
====
Tim asks about search, Eric says “forget search” then jokes in the new regime you have to label jokes — IE he’s joking about forgetting search but goes on to say this is beyond search in that if you’re walking down down the street, offers and other info can just be presented to you without having to search.
John: What are you dissatisfied about with Android?
Eric: Like to have more emphasis on application side, but it’s tough, because you have to get volume of handsets and the platform first, then the apps follow.
====
Tim: how about search as a competitive advantage in trying to find apps.
Eric: We don’t think of it that way. People are obsessed on the competitive landscape rather than the focus on the market overall.
John: What about the divorce from the carriers, something he feels Jobs did right with iPhone, I don’t want your stuff on our phone.
Eric: Agrees with some. Talks there are open and closed system. We’re willing to let vendors do things, we think that’s the right model. So he kind of dodges it.
John: When you closed the store, you said there would never be a new model.
Eric: I said Nexus 2 (IE, if a Nexus S comes out, don’t say he said it wouldn’t).
John: What about environment now with talent, the pay raises given out recently.
===
Eric: The origins of the raise were in the spring. Still coming off the recession, made some core investments, looking at acquisitions, then looking also at sharing of success with others in the company.
Found there are people at Google even if well paid still struggling with sky-high property prices, so this is component about that. But more than that, “we just thought it was good for the whole company.”
====
John: What about trying to maintain the start-up culture.
Eric: we hire a couple hundred of people a week. reports Google is losing talent is “poor writing” by journalists, in his opinion. Oh, and he wasn’t joking when he said that.
===
John: Google’s been in hot water with some agencies around the world, in some responses to then, you said it’s our job to push up to the “creepy” line.
Eric: again, this is an example of quotes being taken … i wish I could push everything up to YouTube so people can see it. The point I was saying is that there is clearly a line that we should not cross it.
====
We’ve gotten onto the auto-driving cars that Google has. Sorry, had to copy stuff over and swear didn’t miss that much. Anyway, Eric says that they think driving cars in this way are legal by various reads.
John’s getting back to the line, leading Eric to say the main issue is that society is going to have to confront all types of uncomfortable questions about privacy, need for policing and all types of issues because so much is coming online or being monitored, such as street camera (run by the government) in Britain.
John: But you have to (Google) make some decisions about products yourself, as with Street View
Eric: We learned that you can’t just rush a product out. The engineers’ political views, for example, might not match government views. Started with face blurring and license blurring (actually, I didn’t think that was part of the initial launch). Most countries was OK. But some wanted houses deleted, and that was added. Still in Germany, not enough, a permanent opt-out of your house. It was a reasonable accomodation to the local sensitivities. People there now love Street View. Things this is how things will go forward.
===
John: are you planning a set of products around social that may be seen as competitive to Facebook.
Eric: because of this obsession with competition, everything we do seems competitive. I’d rather answer the question by saying we agree that social information is important, in particular the name value graphs. That link structure has great value. The classic example is in search, where with your permission, if information you provide is being used. And by the way, that’s a deal Facebook and Microsoft announced.
Tim: Didn’t Mark say they didn’t use you because they saw you as competitive in your space.
Eric: I can’t speak for Mark.
John: Why not use Facebook Connect. There are clearly business reason you aren’t doing that. You don’t want to strengthen Facebook.
Eric: That’s not literally how we think. One of the fundamental principles on the internet is that this kind of information is open. So I worry, as a general response, not just about Facebook, that things are developing to keep too much information private.
====
John: Can you take a minute to educate on how came to joint statement with Verizon on net neutrality and different views on wired and wireless web.
Eric: Which is not what we said. Let’s define the terms. Net neutrality has meant if you have one video type like video, vendors won’t discriminate one video provider over others. But it has always allowed data in general to be discriminated against.
So the problem with the telcos is that they don’t want to be regulated. they say they’re OK with this, but they don’t want the govt writing regulations when they’ve just left being regulated.
So our response was lets look at wired, where you often have less choice if only one choice, so less competitive. We did that to encourage more conversation in the industry.
====
Tim: Location is a key part of mobile. You recently moved Marissa Mayer to a new position….
Eric: She was promoted…
Tim: We see more and more focus there?
Eric: Absolutely. Google Maps is phenomenal. It’s changed his own view of the world.
Tim: No question, just walking with Google Maps on the phone, you’re never lost.
John: Google TV just recently in market, how’s it going, what’s the beef with the networks hating on it?
Eric: Finally at a point where you can have computer-powered TVs that work, with browser, etc. As I understand the industry’s concerned, do you realize you taking a dumb TV and making it smart, one said. Yes, and the idea is that the TV will be harmed by all this access too to internet content. I disagree. I think people will watch more TV.
Tim: But they’ll also watch through other venues, like Netflix.
Eric: But Netflix pays a pretty penny for that content to the owners. But what do you think will fundamentally happen with TV, they’ll go to the web and watch stolen content or go to watch more TV. I think more TV. Stresses also that the TV now becomes a major new platform.
====
Q&A: What’s the next billion dollar rev opp for Google?
Eric: The next large one is clearly in the display business.
Question: You probably talked with networks before you launched Google TV and they were on-board [actually, they weren't].
Eric: Says reading more drama than there is. A whole bunch of people are happy. There are some concerned, and you’d expect that. But, “we want to make the revenue larger” for everyone and is “quite confident” that “we’ll get through this one.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Thanks Paul.

Does anyone have a video of the interview? The blog post seems mixed opinion with quotes.

avio07 said:
Does anyone have a video of the interview? The blog post seems mixed opinion with quotes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The full 45 minute interview is now on YouTube:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/16/nexus-s-teaser-by-eric-schmidt-now-available-on-video/

[RANT] Surprise, 21st Century manufacturing and still no transparent aluminum

.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]

Poser said:
.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.

I agree with this. I mean I'm impressed because they've managed to build so much devices compared to last year's fiasco (2-4 weeks waiting because of backorder). + you're paying 230$ for a tablet like this, don't except state-of-art QC from the manufacturer. That doesn't excuse their issues but at least I'm still impressed that it's not more than half the devices that have problems.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

My take is simply this (which the OP stated so well):
It's a new device that's been mass-produced; There will be issues.
That doesn't, however, mean it's a bad device that requires thread after thread after thread of angry ranting
Having a thread or two detailing common issues and, if needed, common procedures for repair / replacement is all that's needed.

Transparent Aluminum = aluminum oxynitride
it does exist, its what the military uses for transparent armor

Poser said:
.... for those who are unfamiliar, that is a reference to the fourth installment of the Star Trek Movies (with Shatner as James T. Kirk):
But is also an electronic euphemism for me throwing my hands in the air in disgust.
Every time a new device surfaces, and the subsequent forum is created.... it is almost immediately populated with "Screen Bleed!", "Creaky Back Panel", "Dead Pixel", "Dust under Display", "I got Howler Monkey and NOT Gorilla Glass" threads (ok, I made up the last one, but you get the point...). These threads almost immediately degrade into a bashing of Asus, Samsung, HTC etc and their inherent failures of maintaining reasonable quality control and piss poor manufacturing tolerances. Rarely, though sometimes, does anything constructive come out of these threads. It just serves as vehicle for some users to vent their concerns... and other users to troll and incite anger. I know I can choose not to read these threads... however, on that rare occasion when there is a nugget of wisdom buried in the sea of bull#%@!, I am interested in learning.
I think we have to come and realize, that due to the scale on which these devices are produced... that there will be flaws coming off the line. Period.
I also think, as educated consumers, that everyone has the right to get the device that they paid for (within reasonable perception). Thus I never fault anyone for RMAing four, five or six times... it is there money and they can exercise whatever diligence is necessary to achieve whatever they feel their purchasing dollar deserves.
However, the endless bashing of manufacturers... "I will never by Asus or Samsung or <insert offending OEM>" are both tiresome and unrealistic. For instance, Samsung supplies many OEMs with both display and memory technology... even trying to avoid giving them your dollars is relatively difficult.
I guess what I am saying is that I empathize and recognize that users will find fault in new devices... and after forking over hard earned cashed will be indignant if it fails to meet their expectations. I just think there has to be a more constructive manner of voicing, organizing, researching and in some instances effecting change or exacting compensation for these "failures".
This is where I make a suggestion to the MODs:
The Q&A forums and Troubleshooting forums should be split. All new devices should have a dedicated Section (eg. Troubleshooting) for discussion of device flaws, production intolerances, technical failures and possible solutions. It would serve to clean-up the general section... and also allow for easier aggregating of "issues". This will allow for users to 1: see if something is a trend, or a few isolated instances; 2: serve to educate prospective buyers and 3: Allow information to be collected in a manner that is organized, coherent and possibly (I use this word loosely) useful in presenting OEMs with a list of informed users experiencing a defect on a wide scale.
I know, I suck...
[/rant]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For once I totally agree with somebody 100%, I mean literally. Every time you go into google and pick a product and write "fail" "error" "failure" you will get complains, rants and what not, people need to learn that there is NO PERFECTION in mass-production products.
Want a perfect car? Pay it. Want a perfect phone? Buy an iPhone kidding

[Q] Finding a mobile phone focused hardware engineer?

Hello,
I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know
I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid. I need the help of one so I can make a more sound mock-up of what I'm doing and planning prices before talking to the VCs I have contacts for. That said, I COULD always find a way to basically hire a hardware engineer for consulting but I would really want to find a hardware engineer somewhat as passionate as I am about quality and creativity forward thinking. I already have a few software teams in mind to ask but will only do so once I have the funding.
So my question to you at XDA, where would I go about doing this? I should also mention the engineer I would look for would need to know about mobile phones. The thing is, I CAN start prototyping and the funding process using generic insides from a chinese phone BUT the end goal for me is custom hardware with the utmost care and quality put into it. So I would basically be lying to VCs (which let's be honest, everyone does) but then I would be delayed in having a hardware engineer still, and I'd rather have as much time to get the ball rolling as possible. Hell even if the hardware engineer could give advice on the future and pricing but says going with chinese insides until the money comes in would work.
I just have no idea where to find one, craigslist, ask around from friends, post at a certain website? Luckily what I will be doing for the next year shouldn't take the engineer more than a couple hours a week if even. So for quite a few months it should be pretty low key for them if they wanted to keep doing whatever job they were doing until I could afford to hire them full time. In about 6 months I want to start the prototyping to have early look units available for reviewers by November/December of this year.
Thank you for taking the time to read and help! If anyone is curious without saying too much I am looking towards making a pure android ubuntu edge quality phone, but most likely higher quality. The end goal is to use the main funding to make a phone directly aimed at the wants of you guys at XDA, but that's at least a year or so away sadly, and first things first.

iytrix said:
Hello,I'm not sure if this is the best place for this post, but it's the smartest, and largest android based community I know I wanted to know where would be the best place for me to look for a hardware engineer. The caveat would be I need to find someone willing to talk a bit first before actually being paid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers.
Anyway, this is the right place, but you are basically saying that they should "talk" to you, for free, for a while. So I doubt anyone would come forward. At least that's my experience in reading and seeing similar posts here in the last 2 years. Why would someone with the know how, risk spending months talking HW details, just to find him/herself abandoned?
You're project seem very noble and tasty, but we have to repackage it with some better incentives.

E:V:A said:
You're in San Jose!! They grow on trees there! Just get some kid on the street and half their family will be HW engineers..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahaha! So true! I remember when I first was looking to move out with a roommate almost EVERYONE was an "engineer" of some sort.
In hindsight I shouldn't have deleted the quote to respond. I think I remember all of what you said.
Yeah I understand that fully. This has just been an idea brewing in my head for about 3 or so years and my original plan was to befriend someone that was a hardware engineer and after building trust and enthusiasm start working on things. Me personally, I would do all of this for no profit on my part. Do I want it? Yes, but I only care about food, living, car payments, and getting this project rolling. I would like to work with people passionate enough about this to have a close mindset, but I realize that's not realistic, especially since it's my idea I'm asking people to believe in enough to work for it.
I think what I will probably have to do is, once I get enough stuff written up to present to an engineer to entice them on the project, also get some contract ready that promises them some share in things. The only thing is that could get very messy, and I would also need to add some more binding things so that they couldn't just leave on their own and take some profits, but I know I will need SOME way to entice people to want to work on this beyond just showing them the plan and idea.
I'm also trying to get in the more professional mindset. Making new company named emails and profiles so when I talk to people it's not just from a personal account. For XDA though I assumed people would take a senior member a lot more seriously than a brand new account though.
Are you from the Bay Area as well or do you just know of it? I find it weird that in this area people want to know investors and have their teams. I am in the opposite position where I have no team but have investors I am able to get a meeting with.
As a side note, a main reason why this turned from an idea to a thing that I HAD to do is I was getting fed up with all the phones that are coming out. There are many markets and categories missing from phones and I am hoping I can be the one to fill the gaps. I see tons of complaints online on various aspects of phones and so few companies seem to listen. Then once in a while a phone seems to be close to perfect and then the company doesn't ever come close again or removes wanted features. My only real fear is if the market moves too fast with some proprietary tech. But seeing as we've had bendable screens for...what 3 years now and the most we've gotten is slightly curved phones no one likes? I hope to change that, to get people more interested and caring for their phones.

Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.

mikereidis said:
Just figure out where they hang out online, and post...
You could post wherever idle HW engineers go to look for jobs too.
And there is no such thing as an "unemployed engineer".... They're (we're) consultants / contractors in between assignments, LOL.
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That's why I'm here to see if anyone knew where they went to hang out online haha. How would I go about that? Like a site or forums that's like a github for engineers instead of coders (although github is more pure code.....stack overflow I should say, but I think I make enough sense).
Haha! That seems very true. I'm sure I could find one to help me at least get the planning done but I would love to find one who wants to see this project through and through, and stay on for the full production of the phones, and the other ones I plan on making in the following years if this one succeeds.
Oh and, since from what you've said you SEEM to be a hardware engineer, how would I go about asking for the right kind? Could anyone with a degree or knowledge be able to easily adapt to making phones properly, or would I need to ask for one with a certain specialty? If so, what's the official term for the specialty?

#freekodi | SPMC dev tries to get unpublished on the Amazon Appstore

Under the light of the recent developments - Amazon has banned Kodi from distribution on all of their plattforms, proclaiming it was "soliciting illegal use" without giving any insight into their though process, or even one argument - developer Koying is showing flag as well and is currently trying to withdraw his build of Kodi from the Amazon app store.
SPMC is the second most commonly used Media Center on Android, after Kodi - containing tweaks that make it more suitable to be used on some Android devices.
Read on from here:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201783&pid=2031210#pid2031210
@AFTVnews.com: I'm hoping you could pick up on this one as well.
edit: Background information:
http://www.aftvnews.com/amazon-apps...piracy-while-google-play-store-approves-kodi/
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/17/bezos_bozos_swing_ban_hammer_at_media_player/

This is off topic I believe, not because the mods are out to get you. Kodi and SPMC have never been compatible with the FireTV via the Amazon App Store. This belongs is a Kodi, SPMC or Amazon Fire Phone forum. Just saying if you are looking for a reason why your posts are getting deleted.

Using Amazon App Store Shortcuts to start Kodi and SPMC - which are the most popular sideloaded apps on the Fire TV, is the most common way of accessing your Media Centers on the Fire TV.
Also - the reason Amazon gave for pulling Kodi out of distribution has ramifications that by far exceed affecting only users who were dependent on the official distribution channel (Amazon Appstore). Amazon basically stated, that the most popular open source video player on Android devices should be considered illegal, without giving out any of the reasoning.
Also, every second thread in here is about Kodi and or SPMC - so there is a topical nature to this. Especially, as Amazons move very likely was triggered as a result of conflicting interests in the Fire TV segment of their product lines. Remember that Amazon has no problem still openly selling Kodi Boxes through their goods based marketplace.
In addition - the notion of developers trying to leave the Amazon ship as fast as possible, is a sentiment worth noting as well.

Ok fair enough. Your thread, I'll see my way out. You are looking at the bigger picture of what this could impact and the mods will allow it or not. Obviously a big deal for you if you specifically called it out to Koying like that. You going to ask the Plex devs next?
But again, this is a thread about removal of Kodi/SPMC from the app store. This is different than threads on Kodi usage via sideloading. The app store removal has no impact on FireTV users besides the shortcut not being available. And there are plenty of documented workarounds for this.

Plex plays ball with content holders requests to a point, where someone interested in publishing an addon with them, can even specify which plattform (that Plex supports) he doesnt wants his addon to work with - for example, because he wants people not to be able to access the content on a TV, or wants to drive them to his own 10 foot interface.
Plex also has vouched to vet all addons they provide, prior to releasing them. The content holders pay for that privilege.
Their answer to such a request would already be predetermined.
Still, this whole episode is an attempt to clamp down on user interests by Amazon and frame Kodi to be "something illegal" without offering their thought process, or reasoning.
This should be able to be discussed in this forum. I'd ask the moderators once more to reconsider censoring this discussion, because it has already caused considerable waves.

You can read Cory Doctorows position on the topic from 2010 here:
http://boingboing.net/2010/04/02/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-yo.html
This is what we are currently trying to fight against. While XDA moderators are closing down the topics.
Apple still provided its users with player software they could use to play their files on during the last transition, Amazon is now actively moving against the most commonly used video player software out there during this transition. If we dont care to actively speak out on behalf of Kodi, when a major 500 company is trying to sideline and extinct open source media center use on their platforms - it will shape this industry and our future concept of what we should be able to do with our devices.
Content vetting, by corporations - is nothing I would welcome as the new normal.

Thank you to everyone who brought this to my attention. http://www.aftvnews.com/spmc-requests-app-withdrawal-to-protest-kodis-removal-from-amazon-appstore/

And then - nothing, at least in here. Please dont be afraid to talk about Amazons unprecedented move to declare a Video Player "illegal".
I would really like to force this conversation.
To kindle some of the dialogue on topic - SPMC tries to get pulled to force the conversation here. To NOT allow people to flee to a convenient alternative, that is not tarnished by having become Amazons target, on grounds that arent publicly declared. Changing the app doesnt solve the issue.
So what is the next step - if we cant provoke Amazon to provide a public statement, while they decided to declare war on media players - we have lost. You have lost. You can then fast forward a few decades and tell your grandchildren the boring story, of how you've stood by and were too afraid to make your voice heard, when Amazon outlawed general purpose software on Android devices.
Media outlets right now are reporting on it, but they are taking the strange aura of - "it is outlawed" - with them, between the lines. No one is willing to not call it "a mistake", but an attack on consumer rights.
If this dialogue doesnt get started - and I am willing to take the time and argue on one side, Amazon will just sit this one out, and it will be allowed to become a precedent.
in german we have a word for someone declaring that a person or a concept has fallen out of the authorities favor. It is called vogelfrei and it translates to "as free as a bird" but in effect it describes that this person has been stripped of all of their rights and property - and that this had been made public to be made an example out of. This is what currently is happening to Kodi.
If you have an opinion, if you want to show some support, please voice it. It only takes a few voices to get a dialogue started.

its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.

psycon said:
its no surprise amazon hates it.. it alows users to get for free what amazon charges way too much for...
them keeing it off the app store is a good thing really.. it gives less attention to certain plugins as the muggles wont be able to get as easily. so certain plugins will have less heat on them.
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But, what if you dont care about prolonging the life of certain plugins, by actively "pulling heat off of them".
What if you are a Kodi developer and you come to work tomorrow, launching your project files and have this strange feeling in your stomach - that you are now one of the bad guys, because you dont have submitted to corporate forces to include DRM in your software that will only allow certain extensions to work.
By what mode of thinking do you not pronounce this world crazy - because google does none of that on youtube, and only recently has pulled in extension distribution on Chrome in house, because of the profit motive (officially it is to "protect our users from rogue apps and viruses"). Because Calibre, the most commonly used tool to convert eBooks to Amazons azw format - even for submitting them to Amazon themselves, also has a plugin infrastructure and scraping built in. No one even cares to think to declare it "facilitating illegal use" because of it - in fact it is facilitating Amazon eBook creation for commercial use, if anything.
Amazon has closed down Fire TVs to a point, where there is only one viable distribution channel on it to get programs from for most people. Now they start to ban general purpose software on it, whenever it gets popular enough to compete with their own product offerings declaring it "facilitating illegal use" and not giving any explanation?
Heck, all Amazon products could be declared to be illegal tomorrow, when we are following the explaination that is taking form here - if Amazon would be forced to release a statement as to why they consider general purpose software illegal, we could then take this definition and apply it to them to see if they are adhering to the same standards, when it fits their business interests. This is what this whole episode is about.
You cant declare something "facilitating illegal use" and not give out any reasoning. You cant start banning media players from your distribution channels, and believe, that the world tomorrow will go on the same way it has before.
Just remove all CD burning software, all flashdrives, all MP3 Players, all eReaders, even the Fire TV itself - from your storefront, while you are at it, because you just engaged in a serious example of fostering double standards - when you think, that you can get away with it, without too much publicity.
What about, the prospect, that as a Kodi developer you care about the "muggles" - and you dont care so much about the dumb pirates who will always shout out "it costs too much", regardless what you throw at them? But you also care about open access - and dont believe that every content that can be played back by your software should have to be vetted by you first.
What if you dont believe in putting in DRM hooks into your software project, so it can be considered "marketable" in the minds of whoever currently is promoting his digital agenda?
Amazon is no more legal than Kodi. In none of what they are doing, selling, promoting or declaring. They just are better at promoting double standards. And when they speak out a ban, most journalists headlines follow their messaging - not even stopping for one second to question what is happening here.
What if you are a Kodi developer that was encouraged to do this work through being sought out as a participant in Googles "Summer of Code" programs year, after year, after year - and all of a sudden your work is being dragged through the gutter - once your featureset has been copied and no one sees any use for your position not to be willing to pronounce what is considered "officially too naughty for an Apple Appstore". Which by the way - also contains political satire, because the mid west likes his ways.
If you are under 30, why all of a sudden are you thinking like your dad?

Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.

jpeg42 said:
Sorry this was a dud for you, but nobody cares. You aren't starting a revolution. SPMC is the #3175 ranked app on Amazon. It hasn't even been updated since 13.4, so I doubt the developer cares that much. And again, it doesn't change a thing. We'll just sideload it like we always have. Until Amazon actually blocks this from running, save your breath. All you have done here is helped Amazon get content they don't like removed. Really, prod the TVMC dev next. Amazon will love you. That is much higher ranked and actually includes piracy.
Amazon does have the right to remove and app without reason, just as Koying, Kodi or anyone else has a right to remove their app at their request. It is given in the same terms, sections 6, of the developer agreement. If you don't like it, don't use their store and sign the terms and conditions. They don't owe you or anyone else an explanation.
App Availability; Withdrawal. We may determine in our discretion to make any App available through our Program.
And having you spout your craziness all over each place this is posted makes it look like #freekodi being pioneered by a crazy person. Some people follow the crazies, but not the masses. You, personally, are pushing them away. So you should stay quiet if you want to see this succeed with whatever you are trying to do. Just some advice.
Also, you have insulted AFTVNEWs and XDA directly on this forum. You lambaste anyone for going to "clickbait blogs" to get fed an opinion. Yet you turn right to them when it fits your agenda. You sir are a hypocrite. No one is listening to you.
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Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
To the OP, nothing you say is factual and nobody cares what you have to say. There are many other sites and ways to obtain Kodi so if Amazon does not want Kodi in their store it is totally fine. Kodi was removed a week before you even said anything about it and you would not have even known it was removed if you did not read it on AFTVNews.com. Kodi was removed on June 6th, and you didn't even know so its clear that if you cared you would have been checkin up on it. The same site (AFTVNEWS.com) you say you hate is where you get all of your info.
Its clear that the only reason you care about Kodi is the same reason Amazon decided to remove it. If Kodi did not give you an easy way to view illegal content you would not care at all. You are just paranoid that Amazon is gonna block you from using Kodi and take away your convenient way of finding and watching illegal streams. I do not hear you complaining about any of the other apps they removed. As a matter of fact you challenged anyone to name another app that Amazon has removed and when I named Modern Combat 5 you made an excuse about them removing it and said that MC5 was just a COD ripoff. You cannot complain about them removing Kodi and saying they are attacking us by doing so, if you are not gonna defend other apps too. Like I said, its clear why Kodi is the only app that matters to you, cause you do want to pay for TV and movies and you are scared that Amazon is gonna do something to block Kodi on your device. Let me help you stop compaining, Amazon is not gonna block Kodi or any other versions of Kodi, I promise, now get over it.

porkenhimer said:
Seems ike you are doing exactly what you tried to talk down to me for doing. When I opposed the idiot that started this thread you said I was wrong for doing it, now you are doing the same exact thing that I did. We are both right to call him out because he is wrong about everything and is super ruude to everyone.
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Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.

jpeg42 said:
Yes, I apologize for that. I have seen the light. I am going to take the advice I gave to you back then. I am going to ignore this user. I am just as much responsible for his continued rants by responding to them.
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You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.

porkenhimer said:
You never gave me that advice at all. You simply talked down to me for no reason. I am pretty sure it was simply because you took something I said wrong even after I apologized and told you what I actually meant you kept trying to insult me everytime i would post something. You're just as bad as the OP. When someone says something you do not agreee with you try to insult them. Its understandable tryin to talk down to the OP, cause he really is going way overboard with his nonsense, but you are rude to people even when they have done nothing wrong. Not only were you rude to me for no reason, you attacked me when I was not even talking to you on the Kingroot thread, then cheered the guy on that I was talking to. Its cool though, cause I realize now that you are just a know it all that just wants to be heard, so feel free to insult me anytime if it makes you feel better about yourself.
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Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.

jpeg42 said:
Whatever man. You ramble like crazy and I call you out for it. I'll never respond to you again too. Promise.
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I hope not, cause all you are doing is trying to cause drama. Who tries to insult someone for doing something then does the same exact thing they tried insulting someone else for doing, then apologizes when they get called out on it? You, and that should tell you how rude you are to others. Lame as hell for you to be rude then turn right back around and do the axact same thing you told someone else not to do.

Once again, this topic is being closed.
You can "force" this discussion elsewhere. It's only bringing drama to XDA, and we don't like drama here. It disrupts the love! :highfive:
This is a site for developers and development. Every time this has been brought up, arguments ensue. And frankly, its irrelevant to the purpose of this site.
No more of these rant threads please, or they will follow this one to the Closed file.
Thank you,
Darth
Forum Moderator