Database Users

The most annoying problems with G3 explained

Firstly, let me apologize for my English and the lack of technical terminology in my vocabulary.
Secondly, a disclaimer: I do not own any Samsung phone. I think that my wife's LG G2 is the greatest phone in the world.
Let's get to the point...
Polish site PCLab has just published a detailed review of G3 (European model) with some astounding tests' results that might shed some light on all disturbing reports about problems with LG's new flagship device. And while Polish journalist praise the phone for its incredible design, great UI, decent camera, they are at the same time very disappointed with some serious software and hardware problems that G3 is suffering from. I have read tons of different reviews, but it's the first one that explains why this phone "lags", overheats etc.
Problem: POOR BENCHMARKS' RESULTS, LAGS
Some reasons:
1. It seems that RAM sticks (is that the correct word?) in G3 are worse in terms of quality than the ones from G2.
2. CPU management is set to deliberately lower clock rate and restrict maximum clock rate to one core only in most of the cases. And when all four cores are in use, CPU management does not allow them to work at maximum rate at all. It has some serious impact on UI operations as well and makes better chpset in G3 perform worse than Snapdragon 800 in G2.
3. The temperature. G3 has some serious problems with heat distribution. When the CPU is working for longer period of time, the clock rate is lowered to 1.5 GHz and (what's worse) GPU clock is being seriously restrained. For example, after several minutes GPU clock rate is slowered by 40% (from, say, 20 fps to 12 fps)! It's the worse throttling among all new flagships.
4. There's no trimming in system's internal memory. That's one of the most important causes of "lags".
5. The new UI has some problems with memory management. Sometimes while using few apps there is only 174 MB of 2 GB of memory avaible! And the only way to free memory is to restart the device.
And yes, this review also confirms problems with oversharpening of the text on G2 dispay. The reviewer says that it's the software issue (or rather: "LG's conscious marketing decision").
You can see all the screenshots from various tests here:
http://pclab.pl/art58419.html
I have no idea if these problems might be fixed with some software updates, but I really do hope so!

I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad not to mention that the kernel is using around 25% of RAM as ZRAM which I believe is standard in 4.4 kernels! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------
OK, CPU V temp graphs of normal usage. CPU is spiking to 2.5Ghz, no throttling and temps are normal. RAM usage shows around 400MB free always. Totally normal for Android as I said it fills the RAM then kills apps as needed.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android fills RAM up as you open apps up and leaves the apps in the RAM so you can multitask. As soon as it needs more RAM for other apps it automatically kills the apps sitting in the RAM. Launchers have a big RAM footprint, you're better using a lightweight launcher such as Nova and using the "aggressive" setting which means it never gets killed and sits in the RAM permanently. If you look at your RAM usage whether you have 2gb or 3gb it will always be mostly full as that's how the kernel us handling its usage, its filling it up for multitasking. The article in the op states that the RAM is always mostly full, yes that's good as that's what its supposed to be doing.
http://m.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Bukary said:
Problem: POOR BENCHMARKS' RESULTS, LAGS
Some reasons:
2. CPU management is set to deliberately lower clock rate and restrict maximum clock rate to one core only in most of the cases. And when all four cores are in use, CPU management does not allow them to work at maximum rate at all. It has some serious impact on UI operations as well and makes better chpset in G3 perform worse than Snapdragon 800 in G2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is because LG is trying to run a QHD display on the Snapdragon 801 chipset. The Snapdragon 805 is required to run a QHD to achieve the same performance level as the Snapdragon 800 running on a 1080p display
You can read about it here - http://www.anandtech.com/show/8035/qualcomm-snapdragon-805-performance-preview/3
Manhattan continues to be a very stressful test but the onscreen results are pretty interesting. Adreno 420 can drive a 2560 x 1440 display at the same frame rate that Adreno 330 could drive a 1080p display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Bukary said:
4. There's no trimming in system's internal memory. That's one of the most important causes of "lags".
(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?

dhkx said:
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. Android has that built in now.
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.

Lostatsea23 said:
Yeah. Android has that built in now.
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trim is built in, yeah. The G3 does have issues and the S801is at its limit pushing the QHD display but with ROM and kernel optimization there's still more performance in the phone.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly what the reviewers says: when there was only 174 MB of free RAM the phone started to redraw homescreen and freeze. There was no way to get rid of this. Uninstalling apps and closing them did not help. One could only restart the device. The journalist claims that this software issue can be fixed with an update (if LG decides to release one).
dhkx said:
No TRIM? Are you sure? Don't all devices with Android 4.3 and above have TRIM automatically enabled?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the reviewer also says that trimming at fixed moments (or while deleting files) is standard for Android, YET the test revealed that in system's memory of G3 there is no trimming. He is also surprised and says that the quality of this emmory (eMMC) is good, but no trim makes it laggy. (I hope I understood it correctly).
Lostatsea23 said:
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also hope that it will be fixed. But so far there is no serious update. And it's been 5 (6?) weeks since Korean release. And, as far as I know, no other flagship device had such a serious problems. Can you imagine Z2 or S5 perform worse than Z1 or S4? And yet G3 with 801 (in some tests) performs worse than G2 with 800.

Bukary said:
YET the test revealed that in system's memory of G3 there is no trimming. He is also surprised and says that the quality of this emmory (eMMC) is good, but no trim makes it laggy. (I hope I understood it right).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources

Enddo said:
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I linked this review in my first post in this thread.
I am no technical guy, so I can't check if the reviwer is correct, but I tried to translate everything accurately. I want to buy G3, so I am hoping that all these problems can and will be fixed by LG soon.

Jiyeon90 said:
Are you sure about that?
Whenever I have less than 200MB RAM left, my homescreen redraws, opening/closing apps and browsing through the menus is slow.
Whenever I have more than 500MB left my phone is as snappy as the nexus 5.
Sent from my Xperia Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use Xposed App Settings to set your Launcher as 'Resident'. Got rid of this issue for me.

The CPU almost always staying at 300mhz is the largest issue I have with the phone - its not a huge issue, more of an annoyance. I am guessing its been done to maximise battery life and reduce heat.
I don't think this is due to thermal throttling, but if I am wrong please correct me - has anyone had success with turning the throttling off?

It looks like as an author of this article (I completely did not expect to find this link here ) I need to clarify few things.
Batfink33 said:
I've only read a little of it but one of the things that caught my eye is that they are complaining about having only small amount of free RAM. Another poster on here asked about this, RAM is used differently in Android as it is in Windows for example. Free RAM in Android is bad not to mention that the kernel is using around 25% of RAM as ZRAM which I believe is standard in 4.4 kernels! So the article in that point is wrong. I've also looked at the CPU usage on my phone and measured it against temperature. During normal use the temp is around 45-60degC and the CPU is not throttling its sitting at it max 2.5Ghz. I posted a screen shot of this on another thread. They may have a pre production model with early OS version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm well aware that "RAM not in use is wasted RAM" and that Android keeps a lot of things in memory to make everything faster, not slower. When my G3 has ~300-400 MB of free memory, everything works fine, but after some time it fills up and there is no room form launcher, more than 1 tab in Chrome and so on. It clearly is some problem with memory management and as an long-time Nexus user I'd rather say it's a bug, not a feature
Enddo said:
What test? Would you care to link any of these sources
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Claim that every smartphone with Android 4.3 or newer allways has TRIM because it is "built-in" is not entirely true. There are different ways of supporting TRIM. Most common one is ext4 filesystem with discard flag active (ext4 without discard does not TRIM automatically), which was used even before ANdroid 4.3. Motorola has F2FS filesystem, which is optimized for NAND storage and has garbage collector allways active. There is also "Nexus way" TRIM with garbage collection demon running in background. In G3 data partition is ext4 without discard flag and in system logs there are no signs of any TRIM commands running in background, so AFAIK there is no TRIM support in G3 at the moment, or I have strange preproduction sample. The best way of checking that would be rooting G3 and running fstrim() manualy, but i can't do that with my review sample.
Enddo said:
This is because LG is trying to run a QHD display on the Snapdragon 801 chipset. The Snapdragon 805 is required to run a QHD to achieve the same performance level as the Snapdragon 800 running on a 1080p display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not the whole storry. Yes, highier ressolution is part of it, but it looks like G3 has very small thermal headroom and during longer heavy GPU load it's clocks get cut by ~40%. (unfortunately i can't paste links in my posts yet). During 30 minutes long GFXBench loop, after ~15 minutes GPU throtling kicks in and this Snapdragon 801 gets much slower, than Snapdragon. Yes, allmost every new smartphone with S800/S801 throttles in such situations, but G3's case is most extreme one I've ever seen.
Lostatsea23 said:
All these reviews are annoying. The device just came out. A lot of this can be fixed via an update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And selling beta hardware with beta software for full price isn't annoying?
I'll try to figure out with Polish LG representatives if these problems are typical only for this specific sample, or it's something more common. At the moment my opinion is that G3 is very cool phone if your typical usage scenarios do not hit the "heat wall", but if they do this phone gets pretty annoying (backlight dimming, heavy GPU throttling and I've even managed to overheat camera so it stopped recording 4K video after 2 minutes 15 seconds).a
Unfortunately my english is not as good as I'd like it to be, but I hope I explained few things a bit.

bedlamite said:
I hope I explained few things a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, bedlamite!
Could you tell us if any of these issues might be fixed with some software updates?

bedlamite said:
It looks like as an author of this article (I completely did not expect to find this link here ) I need to clarify few things.
I'm well aware that "RAM not in use is wasted RAM" and that Android keeps a lot of things in memory to make everything faster, not slower. When my G3 has ~300-400 MB of free memory, everything works fine, but after some time it fills up and there is no room form launcher, more than 1 tab in Chrome and so on. It clearly is some problem with memory management and as an long-time Nexus user I'd rather say it's a bug, not a feature
Claim that every smartphone with Android 4.3 or newer allways has TRIM because it is "built-in" is not entirely true. There are different ways of supporting TRIM. Most common one is ext4 filesystem with discard flag active (ext4 without discard does not TRIM automatically), which was used even before ANdroid 4.3. Motorola has F2FS filesystem, which is optimized for NAND storage and has garbage collector allways active. There is also "Nexus way" TRIM with garbage collection demon running in background. In G3 data partition is ext4 without discard flag and in system logs there are no signs of any TRIM commands running in background, so AFAIK there is no TRIM support in G3 at the moment, or I have strange preproduction sample. The best way of checking that would be rooting G3 and running fstrim() manualy, but i can't do that with my review sample.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the clarification.
Everytime I open my multitasking I have a look at my RAM bar and its always between 350-400mb so I don't think I have the problem you're having.
I have rooted and FSTRIM runs fine on my G3...
I do agree with you though, there is issues.
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

Guys, the 801 is more than capable of handling QHD, the problem is heating, when the phone gets hot there's aggressive cpu throttling by LG software. The 805 is more powerful with less heat so that's why it more suitable for QHD devices. Same goes to the screen not so bright too much heat.

*OFFTOPIC*
Guys please put those high-res pictures in spoilers! They are totally overloading this thread.
Spoiler
( /SPOILER]
Thank you.

No TRIMM??
Is this serious?
I've always feared that most manufacturers don't include TRIMM or take it away from their phones because that way the phone slows down and forces the consumers to upgrade to a newer one.

Sensamic said:
No TRIMM??
Is this serious?
I've always feared that most manufacturers don't include TRIMM or take it away from their phones because that way the phone slows down and forces the consumers to upgrade to a newer one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The FSTRIM app works fine, I posted this above?
Sent From My LG G3 Using Tapatalk

It's over 60,000 in antutu!

drive.google.com/file/d/0B3F_BFKt9jceX3FVdHdrVEYzb2M/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/0B3F_BFKt9jceRVpFOUJvUm1iemc/view?usp=sharing
More coming soon!

Guess that's alright, but the S6 can hit 70K+ from what I've heard.

I got to 67k

Stock nexus 9 gets about 58k, overclocked I've gotten 64k.

Every time I run the benchmark it crashes when it gets to the fps test. When stock I got a little under 60k
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA Free mobile app

Dark Jedi said:
Every time I run the benchmark it crashes when it gets to the fps test. When stock I got a little under 60k
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Antutu also crashes for me, usually around ~70% completion. The graphics part of the bench seems to be the issue.
USBhost said:
I got to 67k
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you reach 3Ghz for cpu?
Powered By "Yeeart!"

How do u get 1280 for 2d I get 400 and I'm over clocked my best score is 58k

Ace42 said:
Antutu also crashes for me, usually around ~70% completion. The graphics part of the bench seems to be the issue.
Did you reach 3Ghz for cpu?
Powered By "Yeeart!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No only 2.5

http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-9/general/nexus-9-user-benchmark-thread-t3034165

Don't compare nexus 9 scores to 32bit devices. Benchmarking software can only sanely compare variations between devices of the SAME architecture.

S6 is also 64 bit
---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------
Ace42 said:
Guess that's alright, but the S6 can hit 70K+ from what I've heard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's with the 8cores in it.
You do know that antutu favours Multi threaded performance than single threaded performance right?
---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------
Another thing , do you people run benchmarks with the tablet in freezer or something ,if yes then there is no point of posting these scores other than boasting about.
Benchmarks should be run in a realistic environment ,I mean you do not use your tablet whilst sitting in a freezer [emoji14]
Anyways mine gets 58k at 2.5ghz (it throttles down a lot) , outside temperature ~ 29°C

i9100g user said:
S6 is also 64 bit
---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------
And that's with the 8cores in it.
You do know that antutu favours Multi threaded performance than single threaded performance right?
---------- Post added at 12:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 AM ----------
Another thing , do you people run benchmarks with the tablet in freezer or something ,if yes then there is no point of posting these scores other than boasting about.
Benchmarks should be run in a realistic environment ,I mean you do not use your tablet whilst sitting in a freezer [emoji14]
Anyways mine gets 58k at 2.5ghz (it throttles down a lot) , outside temperature ~ 29°C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course I know. I keep up with flagship devices usually & major SoC releases as well. I was just pointing out that the S6 is the best performer...however it only has 4 A57's & 4 53's. Big little permits only 1 cluster to fully run, preventing 8 cores from being online at once unless Sammy modified that behavior.

Ace42 said:
Of course I know. I keep up with flagship devices usually & major SoC releases as well. I was just pointing out that the S6 is the best performer...however it only has 4 A57's & 4 53's. Big little permits only 1 cluster to fully run, preventing 8 cores from being online at once unless Sammy modified that behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since S5 all 8 cores can be online at once , this was due to HMP model of big.LITTLE introduced at that time.
Well I was just trying be 'fair' with comparisons of devices as real world performance is more important than just numbers IMHO.

i9100g user said:
Anyways mine gets 58k at 2.5ghz (it throttles down a lot) , outside temperature ~ 29°C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
29c... thats 84f. What are you sitting out in the middle of a desert or something? That is an unusually high outside temperature. Typical use of such things as tablets will be around 74f (23c). That ambient different may be enough to make the 2k difference.... Also there can be some difference with regards to cpu binning. If your chip needs a bit more voltage than someone elses, then it will make more heat, and throttle a bit sooner.

It's over 8000!

aliyangohar4 said:
It's over 8000!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't say

USBhost said:
You don't say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't get my Dragon Ball Z reference

aliyangohar4 said:
You didn't get my Dragon Ball Z reference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
never watched that anime so I don't know

aliyangohar4 said:
It's over 8000!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh come on!
Its Over 9000!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik

Hiro Nakamura said:
Oh come on!
Its Over 9000!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq2e671a5cg
---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------
Hiro Nakamura said:
Oh come on!
Its Over 9000!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lq2e671a5cg

The 808 is why the 5X > 6P

Anyone who bought a nexus device this year probably has followed the saga of the 810 and its thermal related issues which have been all over the news.
It is now clear that no version (or revision) of the 810 can operate at its max frequency for very long before thermal controls kick in and throttle the device to lower frequencies.
Throttling comparison snapdragon 810 vs 808:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The 810 v2.1 revision was supposed to fix all this, but an in depth look at the v2.1 "revision" shows the 810 v2.1 still throttles like crazy which will lead to the same poor performance and battery drain associated with other 810 devices.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9388/comparing-snapdragon-810-v2-and-v21
"there’s noticeably less throttling on the A57 cluster compared to Snapdragon 810 v2. However even with that change - and unlike the Snapdragon 808 and competing SoCs - both variants of the Snapdragon 810 still see the unfortunate characteristic of ultimately forcing all threads off of the A57 cluster to stay within TDP limits in high load conditions, such as when running Basemark OS II’s battery test."
All the 810's problems are well documented at this point, and its obvious LG and Motorola made the right choice to use the 808 in lieu of the 810 for their flagships. Every 810 device released suffers from excess heat generation and must throttle down processing power so quickly that the device's performance suffers during average usage.
@ my fellow 5X users - be glad our device comes with the 808 and not the 810.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

you should've added a disclaimer stating that your post has an extremely tenuous link to either of the new Nexus phones since the graph shown is not related to either of the Nexus phones, and doesn't take into consideration, for example, the fact that the Nexus 6P has an all aluminium body.

oscillik said:
you should've added a disclaimer stating that your post has an extremely tenuous link to either of the new Nexus phones since the graph shown is not related to either of the Nexus phones, and doesn't take into consideration, for example, the fact that the Nexus 6P has an all aluminium body.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your input. The htc one M9 also has an all aluminum body and a snapdragon 810. It was one of the first devices to suffer heating related issues because of the 810.
As proven by anandtech, having an all aluminum body or using excessive thermal paste (xiaomi mi note pro) won't keep the 810 from overheating.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9388/comparing-snapdragon-810-v2-and-v21
Mi note pro 810 overheating even with excessive thermal reducing design elements, including paste:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Xiao...t-is-equipped-with-Snapdragon-810-SoC_id69242

_jordan_ said:
Thanks for your input. The htc one M9 also has an all aluminum body and a snapdragon 810. It was one of the first devices to suffer heating related issues because of the 810.
As proven by anandtech, having an all aluminum body or using excessive thermal paste (xiaomi mi note pro) won't keep the 810 from overheating.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9388/comparing-snapdragon-810-v2-and-v21
Mi note pro 810 overheating even with excessive thermal reducing design elements, including paste:
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Xiao...t-is-equipped-with-Snapdragon-810-SoC_id69242
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you've just proved my point again, it seems?
The HTC One M9 doesn't have version 2.1, and the Mi Note Pro has a glass back...
When you've got some graphs that are actually pertinent to these phones, then this thread will make sense. At the moment, it's just FUD.

Hi
oscillik said:
So you've just proved my point again, it seems?
The HTC One M9 doesn't have version 2.1, and the Mi Note Pro has a glass back...
When you've got some graphs that are actually pertinent to these phones, then this thread will make sense. At the moment, it's just FUD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with cooling is the SoC typically has a big DRAM chip stuck over the top of it which means the type of case doesn't really help with cooling as the heat just can not transfer quick enough out of the SoC when under full load.
To be fair its in the design that only bursty usage is able to run at full performance. Even Intel CPUs throttle on benchmarks despite huge fans and heatsinks. Phones are not really games consoles and high clocking CPUs are driven more by marketing with best case ratings being the headline which soon falls flat with artificial benchmarks.
For usage the device is designed for they perform well, but push them and it becomes obvious oir smart phones are not water cooled super computers.
Regards
Phil

LG GFlex 2 is a poor implementation and representation of the 810.
Test it against the newer 810 devices and lets come back and discuss.
---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------
oscillik said:
So you've just proved my point again, it seems?
The HTC One M9 doesn't have version 2.1, and the Mi Note Pro has a glass back...
When you've got some graphs that are actually pertinent to these phones, then this thread will make sense. At the moment, it's just FUD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
M9 does have the 2.1...
ALL phones that use 810 have 2.1...
Qualcomm has essentially said 2.1 is an update to drivers of the chip, nothing more.

While I've also preferred the N5X because of size (though once I got it I hope it could be smaller... ),
The 808 was part of the decision. I hoped for a device that isn't frying your hand.
I won't go extreme on saying how the 810 is bad. is it a design failure? maybe. but it's still capable and even reliable when underclocked as latest devices and reviews showed.
In addition to that,
- The N6P was reviewed and I haven't read much complaints about overheating keeping benchmarks usually good/on par but as with the N5X not at the top.
(but as always new OS means kernel changes that might impact benchmarks?)
- The processor is only part of the system and usually they include benefits of SoC. that's the reason why the N6P got better camera features for example.
The only sad thing is I think that at the N5X price ranges they could've provided additional USB-C -> USB-A cable and stick 3GB of RAM.

Let's be honest here - Qualcomm SOCs have been a disaster for the past 2 years, since they got caught flat footed by Apple's release of the 64 bit A7 (and I can't stand Apple).
- 801/805 was them trying to milk their old architecture for everything it was worth.
- 810 was an abortion with overheating and throttling issues because they had to rush to get a 64 bit chip to market and went with stock A57/A53 cores.
- 808 was an attempt to fix the 810 overheating issues by removing 2 of the 4 A57 cores.
- 617 (new HTC One A9) is 8 A53 cores and makes zero sense, let's just have a ****load of low power cores and no fast ones.
- 618/620 (upcoming) is basically a replacement of the 808/810 with stock A72 cores in place of the A57.
All of these are interim hack jobs until Qualcomm can get the 820 out early next year. By all accounts, the 820 will be a great SOC. But in the mean time, arguing over which interim release is best is largely a waste of time. They're all capable but none are really great.

What to test? Galaxy S20+ Exynos vs Snapdragon

Hellu guys!
I own an exynos S20+, tomorrow I will receive the snapdragon version and for a few days I will have them both. At the end of the week I'll returning one of them.
If you're trying to decide which version suits you best and you are still undecided, please tell me and I will test for you.

mishufac said:
Hellu guys!
At the end of the week I'll returning one of them..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can tell you right now you'll be keeping the snapdragon

jasons1004 said:
Can tell you right now you'll be keeping the snapdragon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This what I think also. I'm pretty disappointed by the exynos since I got S10e last year

Could you check if there are any differences in network connectivity? Wifi should be the same, but im afraid the LTE module differs and maybe SMS isnt working properly.
I only had the comparison back with the S8 and the SD version couldnt even get a 4G signal (had a smaller german carrier, but the bigger ones struggled aswell)

K4Y3R said:
Could you check if there are any differences in network connectivity? Wifi should be the same, but im afraid the LTE module differs and maybe SMS isnt working properly.
I only had the comparison back with the S8 and the SD version couldnt even get a 4G signal (had a smaller german carrier, but the bigger ones struggled aswell)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean but I can check something if needed. I don't have any sms issues.

Could you make a quick camera comparison between those two models? 12MP 4:3 photos outdoor, low light, 4k 30 video, autofocus and selfie camera at least. I'm curious how image processing works on both and if there is big difference or not. Thanks

K4Y3R said:
Could you check if there are any differences in network connectivity? Wifi should be the same, but im afraid the LTE module differs and maybe SMS isnt working properly.
I only had the comparison back with the S8 and the SD version couldnt even get a 4G signal (had a smaller german carrier, but the bigger ones struggled aswell)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just received it today. I live in an area with great 4G+ coverage and I didn`t noticed anything changed between SD vs exynos. I made calls, sms, 4G+ mobile data without problems.
Andrino said:
Could you make a quick camera comparison between those two models? 12MP 4:3 photos outdoor, low light, 4k 30 video, autofocus and selfie camera at least. I'm curious how image processing works on both and if there is big difference or not. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will do it, probably tomorrow.

mishufac said:
Hellu guys!
I own an exynos S20+, tomorrow I will receive the snapdragon version and for a few days I will have them both. At the end of the week I'll returning one of them.
If you're trying to decide which version suits you best and you are still undecided, please tell me and I will test for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, update both handsets with the latest FW versions. Post setting them up with same apps and settings,
- Get an idea about each device's batterylife using only (a) Wi-Fi (b) Mobile data in similar usage pattern.
- Play some games and see which one does better. Check for the amount of heat each one generates as well.
- Click pictures of any subject(s) near and far in different lighting conditions and see which one does better.
- On day to day usage, see which one overall feels faster at everything.
etc..
It's clear that the SD is the better one with all those tests floating around the WEB, especially considering the lab tests, but you having a first hand experience can share as well:good:

did you buy the US snapdragon version or unlocked bootloader?

Virgo_Guy said:
First, update both handsets with the latest FW versions. Post setting them up with same apps and settings,
- Get an idea about each device's batterylife using only (a) Wi-Fi (b) Mobile data in similar usage pattern.
- Play some games and see which one does better. Check for the amount of heat each one generates as well.
- Click pictures of any subject(s) near and far in different lighting conditions and see which one does better.
- On day to day usage, see which one overall feels faster at everything.
etc..
It's clear that the SD is the better one with all those tests floating around the WEB, especially considering the lab tests, but you having a first hand experience can share as well:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I updated both on ATCH firmware and wiped the system data.
On WiFi I see mainly the same consumption (3-5 % in favor of the SD version) but on mobile data the exynos consumes more the difference goes to 10%.
Side by side, the SD opens games a bit faster, but it's not a huge difference.
On day to day usage both feel very snappy, but the main big difference it's about the heat that the exynos it generates. With both side by side, I opened the same apps and after 20 minutes the exynos CPU had 56C and the SD 36C degrees.
The battery temperature was 39C on the exynos and 34C on the SD.
I took a lot of pictures and videos with all the cameras in all the conditions: I couldn't decide the winner here. Some are better on the exynos, and some on the SD, I feel that on the SD they are sharper, but the exynos reproducts colours more correct.
Games are smoother on the SD, especially after 15-20 mins of playing. Exynos it's geting hot and I believe that thermal throttle makes them a lot worse.
Because of the heat that it generates and the better battery life, I'll be sticking with the SD version.

masri1987 said:
did you buy the US snapdragon version or unlocked bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I received the Korean version G986N. I don't how to check the bootloader status. In developer settings I have the option "OEM Unlock"

mishufac said:
I updated both on ATCH firmware and wiped the system data.
On WiFi I see mainly the same consumption (3-5 % in favor of the SD version) but on mobile data the exynos consumes more the difference goes to 10%.
Side by side, the SD opens games a bit faster, but it's not a huge difference.
On day to day usage both feel very snappy, but the main big difference it's about the heat that the exynos it generates. With both side by side, I opened the same apps and after 20 minutes the exynos CPU had 56C and the SD 36C degrees.
The battery temperature was 39C on the exynos and 34C on the SD.
I took a lot of pictures and videos with all the cameras in all the conditions: I couldn't decide the winner here. Some are better on the exynos, and some on the SD, I feel that on the SD they are sharper, but the exynos reproducts colours more correct.
Games are smoother on the SD, especially after 15-20 mins of playing. Exynos it's geting hot and I believe that thermal throttle makes them a lot worse.
Because of the heat that it generates and the better battery life, I'll be sticking with the SD version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are exactly the problems with the Exynos.The SoC used and its resulting impacts on the device in every aspect makes it almost feel like a different device altogether in the same shell.

So OP what's your conclusion?
Are the u tubers right that condemn exynos in every aspect or is it an exaggeration?
I believe you are fair without anti exynos placebo effect.
I am waiting for your conclusion.
Battery, signal, temperature?

mishufac said:
On day to day usage both feel very snappy, but the main big difference it's about the heat that the exynos it generates. With both side by side, I opened the same apps and after 20 minutes the exynos CPU had 56C and the SD 36C degrees. The battery temperature was 39C on the exynos and 34C on the SD.
Games are smoother on the SD, especially after 15-20 mins of playing. Exynos it's geting hot and I believe that thermal throttle makes them a lot worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
56C vs 36C CPU temp is a *huge* difference (56% increase) and will result in significant thermal throttling, as you pointed out. Forget about playing CPU-intensive games.
The battery temp difference is significant as well. Exynos battery temp is 19% higher than Snapdragon, which will definitely decrease battery longevity. Essentially, Exynos will lose ~19% battery capacity over the same period compared to SD.
Both are reasons to avoid Exynos if you have the option. Samsung makes a lot of great products, but mobile SoC is not one of them.
---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------
NIKOSXRI said:
So OP what's your conclusion?
Are the u tubers right that condemn exynos in every aspect or is it an exaggeration?
I believe you are fair without anti exynos placebo effect.
I am waiting for your conclusion.
Battery, signal, temperature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the conclusion is pretty obvious: Avoid Exynos if possible.

NIKOSXRI said:
So OP what's your conclusion?
Are the u tubers right that condemn exynos in every aspect or is it an exaggeration?
I believe you are fair without anti exynos placebo effect.
I am waiting for your conclusion.
Battery, signal, temperature?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think they exagerate about the camera comparasion.
When they are both cold, they perform similar, but just after 20-30min of opening apps and watching videos (nothing stressful) the exynos gets significantly hotter in hand and after that you feel the difference in speed.
On similar conditions, I got 7hrs screen on time on exynos and 8hrs on SD. Note that the SD I got has 12GB of ram vs 8GB of the exynos.
After 15 mins of playing real racing 3, the CPU of the exynos had 58C and the SD 37C.
I live in an area with great LTE+ coverage, I have full bars on both.
When I preordered S20+ Exynos, I really hoped that Samsung resolved the issues from the s10 series, but the gap it's still there and for the same amount of money, with SD you get a better device, that's colder

Animation in developer options
Please can someone confirm interesting thing bellow?
- On Exynos in developer option animations are by default off.
- On Snapdragon version in developer option animations are by default set to 1.
I already found this on Samsung Galaxy S10 exynos vs. snapdragon. series. If you have the exynos version it seems to be same as smooth as Snapdragon, but if you turn of animation on SD you will deffinitelly get smoother enviroment cause there is not possible to switch it off on Exynos variant. Only possibility that it is switched off on Exynos I am thinkong about is that this settings are transfered also when you get from one to another device.
Please chek it and let me know.

menhir said:
Please can someone confirm interesting thing bellow?
- On Exynos in developer option animations are by default off.
- On Snapdragon version in developer option animations are by default set to 1.
I already found this on Samsung Galaxy S10 exynos vs. snapdragon. series. If you have the exynos version it seems to be same as smooth as Snapdragon, but if you turn of animation on SD you will deffinitelly get smoother enviroment cause there is not possible to switch it off on Exynos variant. Only possibility that it is switched off on Exynos I am thinkong about is that this settings are transfered also when you get from one to another device.
Please chek it and let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure that's right .... at least here on my Exynos device.... [emoji848]
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
S20U-Exynos

menhir said:
On Exynos in developer option animations are by default off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not true. Default settings are x1.

mishufac said:
I think they exagerate about the camera comparasion.
When they are both cold, they perform similar, but just after 20-30min of opening apps and watching videos (nothing stressful) the exynos gets significantly hotter in hand and after that you feel the difference in speed.
On similar conditions, I got 7hrs screen on time on exynos and 8hrs on SD. Note that the SD I got has 12GB of ram vs 8GB of the exynos.
After 15 mins of playing real racing 3, the CPU of the exynos had 58C and the SD 37C.
I live in an area with great LTE+ coverage, I have full bars on both.
When I preordered S20+ Exynos, I really hoped that Samsung resolved the issues from the s10 series, but the gap it's still there and for the same amount of money, with SD you get a better device, that's colder
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you buy the snapdragon version? Im thinking of doing the same in the UK

arokub said:
It is not true. Default settings are x1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, Thanks. So it must be copied during data and settings transfer from one samsung to another. Good to know!

SD865 performance throttled to match Exynos990

It seems that Samsung might be throttling the SD865 performance to decrease the gap between it and the Exynos version. Check this video to see how the SD S20ultra compares to other SD865 phones in the market right now, such a gap indeed.

Deleted.

Also check out this Antutu benchmark score from my Exynos S20U.

mohammed510 said:
Also check out this Antutu benchmark score from my Exynos S20U.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this a freezer job?

mohammed510 said:
Also check out this Antutu benchmark score from my Exynos S20U.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how did you get such a high score? mine doesn't go higher than 527k

This is pretty ordinary if Samsung is throttling the s20 865... Definitely a dog act
I just ordered a G9880 from hong kong... Maybe I should cancel my order..
---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------
Any throttling will be via the kernel wont it? Can any developers tell us if there is anything that we should know about???

cheetah2k said:
This is pretty ordinary if Samsung is throttling the s20 865... Definitely a dog act
I just ordered a G9880 from hong kong... Maybe I should cancel my order..
---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------
Any throttling will be via the kernel wont it? Can any developers tell us if there is anything that we should know about???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most likely a kernel thing. Some, if not all bootloaders in the SD version can't be unlocked, so nothing can be done about it (like flashing a custom kernel that won't throttle the chip)..

Then the gap of battery life will be even bigger. 865 will be even more efficient after throttling

I think you guys being paranoid on the throttling thing. But me and another guy ran 3dmark benchmark on my Snapdragon vs his Exynos and my scores were better. So if they are throttling the SD it still kicking Exynos butt! Get the 3dmark app off playstore and run slingshot extreme and post your scores.

Paul_Deemer said:
I think you guys being paranoid on the throttling thing. But me and another guy ran 3dmark benchmark on my Snapdragon vs his Exynos and my scores were better. So if they are throttling the SD it still kicking Exynos butt! Get the 3dmark app off playstore and run slingshot extreme and post your scores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have no clue about the results compared to the 865.....but here are mine.....

lch920619x said:
Then the gap of battery life will be even bigger. 865 will be even more efficient after throttling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's true. Then it might be hard to tell when exactly they started doing it. Might be from the very beginning. Or right after people started signing the petition to stop using Exynos.

Aezhyr said:
how did you get such a high score? mine doesn't go higher than 527k
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you get such a high score? Mine doesn't go higher than 474k

[/COLOR]
Kjam33 said:
How did you get such a high score? Mine doesn't go higher than 474k
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
photoshop

Duncan1982 said:
Have no clue about the results compared to the 865.....but here are mine.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hate how you can't just upload a photo directly. Anyway I don't have a photo website where I can link to my screenshot so will just type this out manually.
SM-G988U1
April 4, 2020 23:19
Overall score 9251
Graphics score 12477
Graphics test 1 (FPS) 72.60
Graphics test 2 (FPS) 43.30
Physics score 4856
Physics test 1 (FPS) 84.90
Physics test 2 (FPS) 53.20
Physics test 3 (FPS) 28.90

I don't think Samsung is intentionally throttling performance of Snapdragon 865 units. Samsung has been traditionally conservative (aka "non-aggressive") in performance tweaking. That means they uses the reference best Q (energy efficiency) tweaks from Qualcomm. However some OEMs (like Xiaomi, Realme and Oneplus) are known to be more aggressive in performance tweaking. They are more willing to sacrifice thermal/energy efficiency to get better perf/scores. It is unfair to compare Samsung devices with them and say "Samsung throttle Snapdragon to make Exynos not to look so bad". (You will probably get the same results when comparing Samsung's older devices with other OEM's older devices.)
Plus, Samsung devices get some crappy special security additions which impair performance and their software quality is kinda mediocre when it comes to performance optimization.
BTW, for S20 series, "Optimized" power mode is actually a power saving mode. Only "High Performance" mode enables full power of the phone.

Some say, if you get the Exynos S20U then what you're really getting is just a S20U "Lite". But we can now see the same on the SD865 version. What they are getting is a SD865 "Lite". Regardless if Samsung is intentionally doing it or not. Seems we are all on the same boat.

Thank you for this post. Haven't laughed so hard in ages. Enjoy your phone, speed tests are absolutely [emoji817] percent worthless!!!
Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk

Another video. But this time the SD S20ultra score is even lower at 534k! Wow!

If you like score buy a red magic!

mohammed510 said:
Some say, if you get the Exynos S20U then what you're really getting is just a S20U "Lite". But we can now see the same on the SD865 version. What they are getting is a SD865 "Lite". Regardless if Samsung is intentionally doing it or not. Seems we are all on the same boat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My SD Ultra Lite still faster than a EXYNOS Ultra Lite. Plus it runs cooler and battery life is better. So no I'm not in the same boat. Waving to Mohammed as I leave his boat in my wake.