Related
Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
And that back door gives anyone full control of your phone's information. May not an issue with OnePlus One yet but something to watch out for those buying other Chinese phones. I have to say I fully expected this.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/chinese-android-phones-may-built-222158081.html
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/chinese-smartphone-spyware,news-19003.html
TiltedAz said:
And that back door gives anyone full control of your phone's information. May not an issue with OnePlus One yet but something to watch out for those buying other Chinese phones. I have to say I fully expected this.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/chinese-android-phones-may-built-222158081.html
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/chinese-smartphone-spyware,news-19003.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you think this is unique to Chinese phones?
Not unique to Chinese phones at all. Several major brand phone companies (US included) have been caught with back doors in their firmware.
Transmitted via Bacon
Ssshhhh, they're listening.........
Nearly all phones are made in China..........
Even iphones has backdoor [emoji14]
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!
simple1i said:
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?
x201 model
abuduri said:
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.
simple1i said:
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yes @simple1i, I will definitely keep you in the loop on the bulk ordering.
abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, with 2G. 3G really not needed but if it comes with it, cool. Couldn't find any with android and heart rate on back side, keeping IP67 on the side.
Am currently in Boston (originally from India).
simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?
abuduri said:
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found the answer ... http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-operating-systems-do-wearable-devices-run-on/
Looks like Android Wear needs a compatible Android phone for it to work.
So, I'll stick with just Android.
General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.
@abuduri - I'm not sure if my reply to your PM went thru? I can't see it in my sent folder. Did you get it?
I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.
I've just started working with smartwatches, but I'm happy to help however I can. I'll be attempting some work on the s8, and I know my way around Android pretty well.
kuronosan said:
I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@kuronosan @chainsol - thanks guys.
The thread for the new smartwatch is here, we have 5 people so far: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3115221 - including an electronic engineering. [emoji818]
firmware files of z01
abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
need firmware files for z01 (android 5.1)
On Road test of Ownice C500 – two weeks usage. DON’T BUY.:crying::crying:
I bought more than two weeks ago the unit. I installed on Subaru BRZ (same as Toyota GT86 and same wiring and Toyota harness of course, it's the same car!).
I was tired about BT issues on Xtrons PH75HGTA – MTCD platform on Lollipop 5.1 - related to DashCommand unable to pairing, usb dongle key operating only as router (wifi only 2.4Ghz not 5GHZ) and not in modem way, therefore you were obliged to run Dashcommand (and Torque Pro) with WiFi ODB loosing Internet connection capabilities.
About these features C500 fits well:
You can be online with a microSIM (4g/LTE full compliants to Euro frequencies), run DashCommand with ODB Link LX (genuine), answer the phone on BT (S7 Edge) or if you have a call+data plan on SIM you can make calls from C500 directly.
This sounds good but:
(After 4 firmware flashing - up to V39, latest available)
-FM RADIO is not a real RDS, no TEXT ON RDS, therefore you are on a ’80 radio (Saturday Night Fever age). Today in Europe none is surfing on numeric frequencies since 25 years.
- Equalization, lower and poor, the worst unit on the market (3 levels, bass, middle and treble with an elephantiac sensitivity)
-Sound with no support to subwoofer frequencies, sound is poor with high range speakers, let’s imagine on stock speakers
- DAB radio (same apk running on Xtrons and same usb dongle) has a indecent sound quality and level+, they say that the issue is from producer of apk but on Xtrons runs very well with a high sound quality.
- Rear cam image quality near indecent level (in Russian forum 4PDA someone suggested to solder a 75Ohm resistance across ground and signal wire)
- Rear cam operating only after boot, if you set power off delay time of 10 minutes and restart the car after 11 minutes ,you need to wait to see on back like in 1990: stupid
- Sound bettering (a bit) with few workarounds, you need to root unit and install Viper4Android, Busy Box and set to permissive rights
- unable for adding on memory (SD or USB) to set as system memory (not available space...it returns) only to portable way. You cannot transfer any apks.
My car hasn’t canbus drive as no steering wheel buttons are, so no issue. Someone might become crazy as I read if you get or need volume keys on steering wheel.
My rating is very negative as unit:
Don’t buy, this unit has not more than speed, only.
When you buy this kind of unit you need listen music in 2017 quality standard and not in accordance to 1960 standard, you need to see on back when you start, what is the meaning of a car cam on board if you are obliged to see on back like your father did?, you need to know the station name you are listening and see text traffic messages not search radio station like Allieds did with Nazi’s armed forces in Normandy near 1944.
Avoid IMHO to throw money, keep your MTCD (fully supported with a real and great job i.g. from Malaysk)
I understand your frustration with the unit, since the issues you mention aren't minor bugs and they impact core-features. However, coming from an MTCD-unit and reading the forums until now, I know there's two sorts of Chinese units: fair and poor, none of them are great. I had all kinds of issues on my KGL-unit, with Tomtom and other apps not installing due to the firmware used, OBD-issues, sometimes very laggy in switching between packages and all sorts of other issues. Support by KGL was none-existant. So considering the list you mention, to me it seems the basic is fine and stable, which is a good starting point. The majority of issues could be resolved if the manufacturer is willing to put some effort into it.
Issues that could be dealt with rather easily are I presume:
- add RDS-information
- Equalizer (although I would like for it to be switched off completely, I have an external amp with DSP and would like to get the signal as clean as possible, an equaliser will just eat CPU-resources, so it's not helping in my particular case)
- DAB-compatibility
Probably more difficult to solve:
- Rear cam image quality, if it's indeed hardware-related. Has somebody been able to verify the impedance-mod?
- Rear cam availability. Besides increasing standby-time somebody suggested that it would be possible for Ownice to integrate some sort of additional layer to the firmware to have access to the cam much sooner.
I'm not sure about the "no support for subwoofer frequencies". If they haven't installed a sophisticated equalizer, I don't assume the unit has a high-pass filter, so then it must be related to the sound in general and possibly in conjunction with your speaker system. I'll hopefully receive my C500 later this week, so I can test this for myself.
In the meantime big thumbs up to Bob at Winlink for reaching out. Please don't let us down and show that Ownice / Winlink understand customer service and building customer relationships!
Bob-Winlink said:
Dear Customer,
thanks for your feedback, this is bob from winlink,
pls contact us to get support on our product.
Thanks very much.
Best regards
Bob Huang
Email: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Bob,
How do you see posting effectively "take these issues offline before I will help you" as helpful to the end user or the development of your product? As a user who has experienced this kind of support, this is the worst level of response you could offer and potentially only drive potential customers to agree with the OP and look elsewhere.
Suggest try again and solve the problems in a transparent manner.
Totally agree! I really can't understand what exactly these guys mean when they say "RDS support"? There is clearly no RDS support! Radio is supposed to be THE MOST USED FEATURE of head units and this quality level is really insane. I don't know where is the problem - lack of RDS support in the radio chip, or maybe its just the app, that is not capable to render radio station labels and other data.
Another insane thing is the sound quality! C'mon, these head units are all about audio. Everything else is just a bonus over stock head units. No one wants to downgrade sound quality when they upgrade head unit.
Above two notes are not just about C500. I have experience with several Chinese brands, all sharing same INSANE issues. And I really can't figure out why.
How much did you pay?
skezza said:
How much did you pay?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much you think costs the RDS support? Every dumb car stereo has it since at least 15 years. Furthermore, these guys claim they have RDS support. At least they shouldn't do that!
I would be very glad to pay extra $30 (BOM should be less actually) for some 400-500W quality audio. What we currently get is just some Chinese tablet in a 2din form-factor. This is not what market expects. At lest not me.
Bob-Winlink said:
Dear Customer,
thanks for your feedback, this is bob from winlink,
pls contact us to get support on our product.
Thanks very much.
Best regards
Bob Huang
Email: [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for answer almost I don't like it.
Some points:
Lucky you aren't a US producer or seller: YOU CANNOT SALE GOODS WITH WRONG CAPABILITIES, if you declare RDS compliant , it means RDS not only AF, In US this means "class action" furthermore.
#1. Please advice that unit isn't RDS fully compliant otherwise re-write software to fit.
#2. Please advice that rear vision is not available on start up, same as above. It's the first HU with this ancient feature I find.
#3. I wrote three times, no answers. Check your mailbox found on home site.
#4. It Is very curious that firmware releases (up to V39) are adviced between users on 4PDA forum (Russia) or XDA, a decent producer will build a site with "Support"===> Support, Updates, Download, Firmware. This is done by any Western Producer or China Worldwide Producer (see Huawei, see Asus, see Blackvue, see any you wish), this is not serious It's not a money issue or cost as a Huawei smartphone doesn't cost the same of an iPhone or Samsung S7 Edge. It's nowaday political customer relationship, here. You are out, fired usually here.
#5. Bought a Xtrons HU that I know as capabilities are as standard way, I am waiting sending to install and remove C500 I will run it as stopper in my home entrance. I throw in bucket much $, it's life. No more Ownice/Winlink.
@Bob-Winlink For your convenience:
Contact Russian guys on Russian Forum 4PDA, they made a wide job to modify some of larger crazy features (see post 1 of thread), learn from them.
Maybe If Winlink will pay them or give them the source code, they are able to re-write all Unit not in insane way.
mishoboss said:
How much you think costs the RDS support? Every dumb car stereo has it since at least 15 years. Furthermore, these guys claim they have RDS support. At least they shouldn't do that!
I would be very glad to pay extra $30 (BOM should be less actually) for some 400-500W quality audio. What we currently get is just some Chinese tablet in a 2din form-factor. This is not what market expects. At lest not me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't my question.
RDS is transmitting in 57 kHz range, probably their FM tuner (C500) can not handle 57 kHz frequency.
Its not software thing, it requires new hardware. So yes, it is stupid. I want RDS = i will not buy Ownice C500.
skezza said:
That wasn't my question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know your point - you get what you pay for. However I don't think C500 (or any other Android HU) could be categorized as a cheap piece of hardware. For that amount of money I would expect someone has put some thought and reason behind the product. These Chinese guys only know how to assemble. If you have dealt with Chinese, you should know all they care about is "quantity", not "quality". OK, that's fine, but for God's sake, some things are just unimaginary stupid. Fix them and you will sell more. Put some thought and reason!
mishoboss said:
I know your point - you get what you pay for. However I don't think C500 (or any other Android HU) could be categorized as a cheap piece of hardware. For that amount of money I would expect someone has put some thought and reason behind the product. These Chinese guys only know how to assemble. If you have dealt with Chinese, you should know all they care about is "quantity", not "quality". OK, that's fine, but for God's sake, some things are just unimaginary stupid. Fix them and you will sell more. Put some thought and reason!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wasn't my point at all, but okay.
skezza said:
That wasn't my point at all, but okay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, in this case I bring my apology. I'm curious what was your point?
mishoboss said:
OK, in this case I bring my apology. I'm curious what was your point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point was if you paid a small amount, you might have actually been sold a fake or a clone or something else?
mishoboss said:
OK, in this case I bring my apology. I'm curious what was your point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
skezza said:
My point was if you paid a small amount, you might have actually been sold a fake or a clone or something else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updates? Anyone else having issues mentioned in this thread?
I think all the issues are still there on the quad cores, while the octa cores have solved most of this. I am happy, and I would buy another C500 Octa Core.
velocity4 said:
I think all the issues are still there on the quad cores, while the octa cores have solved most of this. I am happy, and I would buy another C500 Octa Core.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From reading the thread discussing this unit, these still appear to have flaws and QA issues.
marchnz said:
From reading the thread discussing this unit, these still appear to have flaws and QA issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't they all?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've decided to buy a double din universal 7" android 8.0 head unit. After 3 days of researching i came across those 3 as the best.
I'd like to know which one do you guys recommend.
Thanks a lot.
Xtrons TE706PL
EONON GA2170
Auto Pumpkin
im also interested..
even though i like hard Buttons and vol knob more than sw Buttons, i would go with the xtrons
If you look on the backsind of the Units, xtrons has defenetly the best buildt quality.
Inside they are pretty much the same
Interesting to know what Kind of amp chip and Radio chip is used.
Thats my oppinion
Differences? Probably none.
But beware, not one of them runs Android 8. They just change a few strings to make it look like they do for marketing purposes.
luciusfox said:
Differences? Probably none.
But beware, not one of them runs Android 8. They just change a few strings to make it look like they do for marketing purposes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure about this? what is the actual version then?
I'll have my xtrons next week I'll report back then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ordered the Pumpkin Auto, so will also report my results.
soudy1994 said:
Are you sure about this? what is the actual version then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually somewhere between 5.1 and 6.0.
The user interface they present is a dead giveaway.
The interface that Android 8 presents should look very similar to Android Auto.
jvloyola said:
I'll have my xtrons next week I'll report back then
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
packetjunkie said:
I ordered the Pumpkin Auto, so will also report my results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please guys don't forget to share your opinion when you receive them. Thanks a lot.
Got a notice that would have it in 5-7 days from today. Honestly, my expectations aren't super high for the "all be" here (for $300), if Spotify and Waze work that will be 90% of my use of it right there and anything else is gravy.
I ordered a $1,200 android unit that is manufactured in the USA and was bummed when on installation the unit display was dead and it had to go back for a refund, so I ended up with a $1,200 Alpine setup with Android Auto. I like it, but wouldnt mind playing with an Android unit.
The major downside I know that is coming is the need to turn on my hot spot every time I get in the truck - this will be annoying.
packetjunkie said:
Got a notice that would have it in 5-7 days from today. Honestly, my expectations aren't super high for the "all be" here (for $300), if Spotify and Waze work that will be 90% of my use of it right there and anything else is gravy.
I ordered a $1,200 android unit that is manufactured in the USA and was bummed when on installation the unit display was dead and it had to go back for a refund, so I ended up with a $1,200 Alpine setup with Android Auto. I like it, but wouldnt mind playing with an Android unit.
The major downside I know that is coming is the need to turn on my hot spot every time I get in the truck - this will be annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't heard of any android ivi's being made in USA. Care to share who they are?
I actually gave up completely on getting anything decent in a "ready to go" form.
Went this route instead; https://github.com/HiKey960-Car
And somebody pointed out this really neat 10" display that would be really nice with it:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0776VNW9C
luciusfox said:
I haven't heard of any android ivi's being made in USA. Care to share who they are?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://insaneaudio.com/product/insane-audio-jk2001/
These folks are based in California and build their units in the USA.
packetjunkie said:
https://insaneaudio.com/product/insane-audio-jk2001/
These folks are based in California and build their units in the USA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, THAT is an ENORMOUS markup on an MTCD PX5. Look at the UI and the specifications.
Looks like not only audio, but prices are insane as well. Are we insane enough to go for it? .
packetjunkie said:
https://insaneaudio.com/product/insane-audio-jk2001/
These folks are based in California and build their units in the USA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks just like the eBay ones .. doubt it's made in the USA...
These days many US made products are built from parts from China, so maybe they get their head units from there and then modify/customize them here in the USA. From an economics perspective, it would make sense since getting all the parts to build them entirely here is likely not possible. I did speak to them and they have a US based operation. I also believe they are doing the OS work for their units.
packetjunkie said:
These days many US made products are built from parts from China, so maybe they get their head units from there and then modify/customize them here in the USA. From an economics perspective, it would make sense since getting all the parts to build them entirely here is likely not possible. I did speak to them and they have a US based operation. I also believe they are doing the OS work for their units.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they were doing OS work, it wouldn't have the same old really crappy chinese UI.
I'm sure that they're US based, but they're a US based "logo" and reselling company. They order the "out of the box" MTCD units with a custom logo printed on it and call it good.
packetjunkie said:
Got a notice that would have it in 5-7 days from today. Honestly, my expectations aren't super high for the "all be" here (for $300), if Spotify and Waze work that will be 90% of my use of it right there and anything else is gravy.
I ordered a $1,200 android unit that is manufactured in the USA and was bummed when on installation the unit display was dead and it had to go back for a refund, so I ended up with a $1,200 Alpine setup with Android Auto. I like it, but wouldnt mind playing with an Android unit.
The major downside I know that is coming is the need to turn on my hot spot every time I get in the truck - this will be annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nfc stickers(what I'm using) or use Tasker with root.
Brand EONON, Suck do not purchase this brand, I purchase 3 touch screen stereo the most expensive in-dash they have, 6 yrs. ago they suck, the eonon almost burn my wires on my mk5 VW, 3 yrs ago, so 3 yrs later should be enough time for EONON to fix all the bugs so I order ga5153a for my Mk5, fck drove my car windows crazy,
now I have mk6 2010 Golf GTI, Bought Ga7185A, this one drove both my windows, locking system and alarm crazy, and BTW all of eonon stereos, when going into EQ settings and want to hear the back speaker only, would not work, all speakers wires in the eonon stereos, are connected to only left and right no back speakers. this Chinese don't care if you burn your car or not, you can't sue them since their in the 3rd country.
packetjunkie said:
Got a notice that would have it in 5-7 days from today. Honestly, my expectations aren't super high for the "all be" here (for $300), if Spotify and Waze work that will be 90% of my use of it right there and anything else is gravy.
I ordered a $1,200 android unit that is manufactured in the USA and was bummed when on installation the unit display was dead and it had to go back for a refund, so I ended up with a $1,200 Alpine setup with Android Auto. I like it, but wouldnt mind playing with an Android unit.
The major downside I know that is coming is the need to turn on my hot spot every time I get in the truck - this will be annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
macrodroid ftw