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I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!
simple1i said:
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?
x201 model
abuduri said:
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.
simple1i said:
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yes @simple1i, I will definitely keep you in the loop on the bulk ordering.
abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, with 2G. 3G really not needed but if it comes with it, cool. Couldn't find any with android and heart rate on back side, keeping IP67 on the side.
Am currently in Boston (originally from India).
simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?
abuduri said:
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found the answer ... http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-operating-systems-do-wearable-devices-run-on/
Looks like Android Wear needs a compatible Android phone for it to work.
So, I'll stick with just Android.
General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.
@abuduri - I'm not sure if my reply to your PM went thru? I can't see it in my sent folder. Did you get it?
I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.
I've just started working with smartwatches, but I'm happy to help however I can. I'll be attempting some work on the s8, and I know my way around Android pretty well.
kuronosan said:
I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@kuronosan @chainsol - thanks guys.
The thread for the new smartwatch is here, we have 5 people so far: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3115221 - including an electronic engineering. [emoji818]
firmware files of z01
abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
need firmware files for z01 (android 5.1)
Starting this thread as a warning for everyone.
I bought a newsmy carpad 3 and the unit was bricked during an update. I contacted Newsmy for any help with the unit, and to my horror received absolutely no response to my request for repair. The unit does not have any hardware button combo to get into a boot loader mode, which I would put down as a design flaw - but the lack of any communication is stark of how Newsmy would like to treat its customers, is the real bummer.
I gave the seller a 5 star rating when the unit was delivered , now ali express says I cannot change the rating. The seller has no obligation to respond back, and can sell freely in the absence of a negative feedback and the money is gone too. Overall, a lost cause.
Would recommend caution when using a site like aliexpress or a seller like newsmy. Better go with another unit or seller. Anyone has any thoughts on what I could do next, do let me know.
Why did you update it? Any particular reason?
You know those units are put together from gazillion of different hardware bits, and only one difference is enough to brick it.
I'm sure that chinese don't stick to reference design at all costs.
stanjkof said:
Why did you update it? Any particular reason?
You know those units are put together from gazillion of different hardware bits, and only one difference is enough to brick it.
I'm sure that chinese don't stick to reference design at all costs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 3G dongle was not working, hence tried the update. I think a hardware combo for boot loader mode is a basic necessity. This is actually the first product I have found, which broke because of software. Never happened with any of my other devices, hence my crib of a design issue.
sriram_1983 said:
My 3G dongle was not working, hence tried the update. I think a hardware combo for boot loader mode is a basic necessity. This is actually the first product I have found, which broke because of software. Never happened with any of my other devices, hence my crib of a design issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I see. I also dont like devices with capacitive buttons, that's the reason why.
But where did you get the update from ? Did they supply it in which case they should sort it out or did you source it yourself and assume it was the correct one for your unit ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi, I heard on the news that russian and chinese phones may be stuffed with rootkits and backdoors straight from the factory. One reporter mentioned mob/gangs involved.
Can this be true? People have so much personal info on their phones that would be interesting to thieves. And hardly a way to keep them out or to check if you're safe.
I know that there's always a risk, and I'm not going back to a dumbphone. Just wondering if the russian and chinese phones could be the greater risk here.
Not that I particularly trust Apple, Google or Samsung, but I do trust them not to take my phone hostage by ransomware or steal my creditcard info.
The brand Yotaphone is new to me, I really like the idea of the EPD. I tried to get a YD201 a couple of weeks ago, but they're sold out. Now I am considering to buy the Yotaphone 3 when it arrives. But this rumor has me rethinking if I should. Any thoughts on this?
The yotaphone was actually cleared for use in USA a couple of years ago.
joepie67 said:
Hi, I heard on the news that russian and chinese phones may be stuffed with rootkits and backdoors straight from the factory. One reporter mentioned mob/gangs involved.
Can this be true? People have so much personal info on their phones that would be interesting to thieves. And hardly a way to keep them out or to check if you're safe.
I know that there's always a risk, and I'm not going back to a dumbphone. Just wondering if the russian and chinese phones could be the greater risk here.
Not that I particularly trust Apple, Google or Samsung, but I do trust them not to take my phone hostage by ransomware or steal my creditcard info.
The brand Yotaphone is new to me, I really like the idea of the EPD. I tried to get a YD201 a couple of weeks ago, but they're sold out. Now I am considering to buy the Yotaphone 3 when it arrives. But this rumor has me rethinking if I should. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a link to these sources?
Its probably just paranoid people speculating.
I own a YD206, and is great.
If you really are convinced that there are rootkits and backdoors, just install an antivirus of your choice and run a full scan.
I heard it on the news, so no links unfortunately. It's not like I made up the news either, but it's not so unthinkable if you ask me. I do wonder about my data, and don't mind asking somebody else's opinion.
IIRC it was BLU phones sending user data back to China and that was only because of a third party service called adups which provided the OTA. BLU doesn't make hardware they rebrand existing phones from China, and I remember reading somewhere they don't make the firmware either which is how this fxxk up occured.
Both the actual yotaphone hardware and firmware are unique and not rebranded like BLU. Yota also can't go to another company like BLU did and ask them to make the firmware since their phones have the EPD. I'm confident yota is safe, and besides it's Facebook and Google you have to worry about since they actually collect a fxxk ton of your data.
TL;DR Yota is most likely safe. It's BLU, Google and Facebook you need to worry about.
I own a YD201 (Yotaphone 2) btw.
Hi LeslieKawiti,
That makes sense. Besides, if Yota would be caught that would be the instant deathblow for the brand. It being a niche phone, maybe it's not the best target for a money scam.
It's this stupid Russian hackers bull**it.
But I did once buy a Chinese IP cam, that was infected. Firmware had a virus that enables them to use your internet for DDOS. I updated it with the official firmware and that fixed it. It was something a seller or somebody in transport did, I don't think manufacturer could afford to do something this 'evil'. But who knows what tomorrow brings.
LeslieKawiti said:
IIRC it was BLU phones sending user data back to China and that was only because of a third party service called adups which provided the OTA. BLU doesn't make hardware they rebrand existing phones from China, and I remember reading somewhere they don't make the firmware either which is how this fxxk up occured.
Both the actual yotaphone hardware and firmware are unique and not rebranded like BLU. Yota also can't go to another company like BLU did and ask them to make the firmware since their phones have the EPD. I'm confident yota is safe, and besides it's Facebook and Google you have to worry about since they actually collect a fxxk ton of your data.
TL;DR Yota is most likely safe. It's BLU, Google and Facebook you need to worry about.
I own a YD201 (Yotaphone 2) btw.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you get the googlesearch removed?
I have issues on 6.1 update,
# pm disable com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox
for example does not work and I can not deactivate it in user mode as well.
cyanID_ said:
How did you get the googlesearch removed?
I have issues on 6.1 update,
# pm disable com.google.android.googlequicksearchbox
for example does not work and I can not deactivate it in user mode as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are talking about the persistent search box, I installed Nova Launcher and ditched it in no time.
---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------
…although, that’s a bit out of track, me thinks.
Thanks for the temporarily fix
Yes sir, you are correct. Thanks for the advice of installing another launcher.
Still though disabling/hiding softbricks the phone by either bootloop on disabling or freezing on removing
this google system app by force.
It is very sad to have no control about the phone in that aspect.
-> Further the app is occasionally asking different data from phone which can be seen with xprivacy.
Under these internet, serial, activites, location/list and phone/listen. (without using search or audio input)
This sounds creepy to me.
Hi,
I am currently testing a few dual-sim phones for use by a few people within my company. We purchased one Note 9, a few S9s and a OnePlun 6T (it's like Christmas early at my work).
First discovery was that "new, factory unlocked dual-sim" on Amazon doesn't always mean that. Since dual/sim phones aren't sold directly by Samsung, we had to buy them on Amazon and at the very least, one of the S9s was not new. It had a specific knox setting for a bank in south america so that did not come from the factory. So not having a trusted source for dual-sim Samsung is not something I like.
I then purchased a 6T directly from OnePlus and this one is clearly straight from the manufacturer. I'm happy with that and with the fast updates, but now that two phone manufacturers are making the news for security reasons, it doesn't make me confident that OnePlus doesn't gather data without users knowing. Huawei and ZTE are being boycotted left and right for security purposes, companies are shifting towards what I think in an illusion of safety by focusing on products made in the US (doesn't mean chips aren't made in China).
So for my own curiosity, are there people out there concerned by the fact that OnePlus phones are made in China and that as of right now, two electronics manufacturers are involved in security concerns?
Everyone is spying on everyone : Rule #1 , destroy one country's economy by hitting it's strongest companies : Rule # 2
Now all depends what kind of security you are looking for. Samsung has made an "enterprise edition" of the Note9. with
Huawei has very slow updates and being in the US (i guess you are based there) forget about it. This for obvious guarantees, etc...
OnePlus is a great company, it had it's issues in the press oneplus-phones-collecting-sensitive-data But i think this was dealt with.
now depends in what business you are in, and how sensitive your information is.
I hate to say this, but Apple does offer good security (apparently) and now you can order dual SIM cards, or even use e-sim + nano SIM.
Now if someone REALLY wants to know things about you, they will find out. Thus the famous "I gOt nOtHinG tO HiDe".
Everyone is logging data they shouldn't and without consent I'm sure OnePlus is still doing it even if you select disagree, Google is the worst offender all of their services log everything best way to avoid is to run AOSP and FOSS apps avoid stock roms and Google services if you value privacy.
Nic2112 said:
Hi,
I am currently testing a few dual-sim phones for use by a few people within my company. We purchased one Note 9, a few S9s and a OnePlun 6T (it's like Christmas early at my work).
First discovery was that "new, factory unlocked dual-sim" on Amazon doesn't always mean that. Since dual/sim phones aren't sold directly by Samsung, we had to buy them on Amazon and at the very least, one of the S9s was not new. It had a specific knox setting for a bank in south america so that did not come from the factory. So not having a trusted source for dual-sim Samsung is not something I like.
I then purchased a 6T directly from OnePlus and this one is clearly straight from the manufacturer. I'm happy with that and with the fast updates, but now that two phone manufacturers are making the news for security reasons, it doesn't make me confident that OnePlus doesn't gather data without users knowing. Huawei and ZTE are being boycotted left and right for security purposes, companies are shifting towards what I think in an illusion of safety by focusing on products made in the US (doesn't mean chips aren't made in China).
So for my own curiosity, are there people out there concerned by the fact that OnePlus phones are made in China and that as of right now, two electronics manufacturers are involved in security concerns?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turn off all feedback to OnePlus and the phone does not make any pings to strange servers.
I have my phone rooted and have installed apps that log access to ip addresses. I haven't see anything strange in a month.
I'm not concerned and turned logging off.
tech_head said:
and have installed apps that log access to ip addresses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm listening...
I don't buy any devices that can't run Lineage. You can remove the logging programs entirely if you are worried about them still reporting back to OnePlus after opting out. I removed a long list of things, and my phone still works. The couple Huawei devices I've had, and actually are still in the house, run Lineage, so not really worried about them either.
I only buy devices that can be unlocked, and with the intent of running Lineage on them, so I don't really care what software comes on them. Heck my OP 5T sat new in the box until Lineage was released, I used my Nexus 5X while I waited.
Thanks for your feedback.
There's a huge push towards not using Huawei network equipment or not doing business with people who do so. I'm not worried about someone knowing too much about what I do with my phone because between Facebook and Google, anyone can buy that information. The security I'm more concerned about is information theft, leaking screenshots like OnePlus supposedly did at one point, text files filled with "key words" like another news story mentioned. We are even reconsidering laptops and putting a huge emphasis on computers not made in China. I'm guessing the political situation with the Huawei CEO isn't helping the situation either.
Nic2112 said:
The security I'm more concerned about is information theft, leaking screenshots like OnePlus supposedly did at one point, text files filled with "key words" like another news story mentioned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have a OnePlus device? Remove the offending programs if you insist on running OxygenOS? You can secure your own device. Don't like Google collecting information, you can go without Google if you really wanted too. I just see this whole thing as a none issue I guess?
Nic2112 said:
We are even reconsidering laptops and putting a huge emphasis on computers not made in China. I'm guessing the political situation with the Huawei CEO isn't helping the situation either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Anyone see this story:
Germany Refuses To Ban Huawei, Citing Lack of Real Evidence
This is why open source, and open devices are so important. We need things we can update, and things that can be audited. Some people may argue that makes them vulnerable but I disagree.
OhioYJ said:
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's also something I brought up, you can say Samsung phones don't say "Made in China" but it's highly likely that some components in there are which would have their own security flaws.
OhioYJ said:
You have a OnePlus device? Remove the offending programs if you insist on running OxygenOS? You can secure your own device. Don't like Google collecting information, you can go without Google if you really wanted too. I just see this whole thing as a none issue I guess?
Which leaves you with? What devices aren't made in China or made from components from China? I'm not sure any one device is more secure than another.
Anyone see this story:
Germany Refuses To Ban Huawei, Citing Lack of Real Evidence
This is why open source, and open devices are so important. We need things we can update, and things that can be audited. Some people may argue that makes them vulnerable but I disagree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I unlock my BL and root my phone.
Once that is done, I own it and can do what I want.
Mini-rant
OK, so I have to rant (just briefly) about the whole state of Samsung phones at the moment. Basically, we spend gobs of money on expensive devices and get locked down pre-loaded junk in return. Oh, they are physically impressive, have good specs, and are aesthetically nice gadgets. But would you spend $1600 bucks on a new laptop that came with software you couldn’t remove and could only be upgraded for the next 4 years?!?!
I have wanted to experiment with LineageOS for years. I bought a used Samsung S8+ in 2018 and quickly found out that LineageOS was a no go because Samsung locks the bootloaders on all US and Canadian models. So, that was never going to happen unless some guru found a hack.
Now, five years later, I went out of my way to find a Global/European S10+ (an SM-G975F) specifically so that I could install LineageOS. Now, I managed to do that easily enough. But now I am stuck with a phone that has poor reception and slow LTE speeds because it is missing LTE bands used in Canada (i.e. the SM-G975F uses different bands than the SM-G975W).
So here we are… making tradeoffs again.
And while I like fiddling with things like this, I have to wonder... why are we here in the first place? I just want a phone that doesn’t come preloaded with junk that I don’t want. I don’t want Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, TikTok or even Office 365 pre-installed and non-removable. It is like moving into a new house and finding out that the builder picked out furniture for the living room and, while you can push it off to the side and cover it with a blanket, you can never actually remove it. Why is the builder picking out furniture for me in the first place?
Some will say they like the furniture the builder picked. Most will say they don’t hate it or that they found a way to cover it up sufficiently that they don’t really notice it anymore. That isn’t really the point though, is it?
LineageOS on the other hand comes with nothing that it shouldn’t. Oh, and you can have LineageOS if you like (if you stand on your head and find a way to order a phone from another market) but then you have crummy reception forever. Oh, and when you are done you are a 2nd class citizen who can't use the NFC chip on his/her phone to pay for things because you were a "bad person" who found a way to remove the builder's sofa from your living room.
Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…
Why can’t I just turn on the LTE bands I need??!?! Like, seriously, why not?!?!
Or better yet, why doesn’t my phone do it for me when it sees the Bell SIM card?!?!
Whose phone is this anyway?!?!
The state of Samsung phones in North America is garbage. Full stop. Pure garbage. No, I am not being too harsh.
1) All phones should come with basic firmware that makes the phone work and nothing else. The phone should not be used as an on-ramp into whichever ecosystem is paying the manufacturer more. OEM apps (i.e. Samung Calculator, Samsung DeX, etc.) are fine but no 3rd party junk like Facebook and Instagram. That is what the store is for.
2) All bootloaders should be unlockable and re-lockable once custom firmware is loaded if that firmware is itself signed. No "tripping Knox" or this nonsense.
3) All radio/LTE/carrier settings should be accessible and customizable with easily selectable presets for major carriers worldwide.
Anything else is a closed ecosystem that doesn't respect your basic property rights.
OK, done ranting... Maybe someone from Samsung will notice and maybe it will make a difference.
Best regards,
The Fish
I run two stock N10+'s, a N975U and a N975U1.
Running on Android 9* and 10 respectively. Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance. Excellent SOT and standby time.
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go. Once optimized and running well, don't upgrade firmware or update apps and it will run fine for years. Don't do the above and you will need to find work arounds... if they exist.
Current load on this N10+ will be 3yo this June. No malware during that time. Still looks, feels and runs like new. Only repair has been a battery. After a steep learning curve I'm very pleased with these devices. They are still a joy to use. However I can't say the same for the proceeding Samsung flagships and will never own one of them for a litany of reasons*.
Samsung phones with/in this SOC/generation can run well in capable hands, stock, if used as described.
*has last Android 9 firmware update
**lol, don't get me started
blackhawk said:
Neither have had their firmware upgraded. I use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks and settings are heavily optimized. Both run fast, stable and fullfill their mission with almost no issues and little maintenance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
blackhawk said:
Both are compatible with AT&T and as such there are no reception issues. You check and verify this before you purchase. Slam the sim card in and they're good to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
thefish123 said:
This kind of proves my point. I am not saying there isn't a way to get your Samsung phone running the way you want it. I am saying that the hoops we have to jump through and the tradeoffs we have to make are unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a pragmatist, I use what works.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to use Package Disabler to block about 70-80 apks?!?! Why should you have to block *any* APKs at all?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's only blocking what I consider bloatware. 10 or 15 of those apks are apps I installed but chose to kept disabled 99% of the time.
thefish123 said:
Why do you have to stick with old, outdated firmware? Why do you have to make this tradeoff? Why do we have to have a hostile relationship with Samsung?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's your choice to upgrade and there's no reason to upgrade if the firmware is fulfilling its mission if you're running Android 9 or higher. If you lack wherewithal you pay a price...
thefish123 said:
Why can't we have a nice phone, no bloatware, no junk, no apps we don't want. Get updates for a reasonable amount of time (i.e. till the hardware no longer supports it)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updates and upgrades aren't needed on an optimized device that's running well. New phones with the newest firmware are running like crap in case you didn't notice. Very little speed increase in most routine activities and horrible SOT on most.
thefish123 said:
Sure. And I knew ahead of time when I purchased the Global S10+ (the SM-G975F) that it didn't support all the same LTE bands as the Canadian model (the SM-G975W). But again, I had to make tradeoffs because I wanted to run LineageOS. Again, why do we have to choose between two crummy options?!?! Where are the good options?!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
thefish123 said:
I am daring to imagine a world where this is better. Really, we used to have phones locked to service providers and 5-year contracts. Those were the bad old days. But these days right now (with the bloatware, etc.) are also not great. It reminds me of the Windows XP era of PCs where you would buy a new PC and be prompted to sign up for 100 different services upon initial bootup. Only difference then was you could re-install the operating system on your PC and free yourself from the OEM bloatware. But now, with phones, they make even that impossible with locked bootloaders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that bad if you shop smart. I bought out my AT&T N10+ at 2 years. It's almost identical to my carrier unlocked variant. I want the boot loader locked for security. No way I'm touching the firmware as these are premium flagships that run extremely well as is. I have very little to gain and lots to lose... including time.
thefish123 said:
Basically, if I could unlock the bootloader of a Canadian SM-G975W that would be ideal. Any why isn't it like that anyway?!?! Isn't that the way it should be to begin with?
Locked bootloaders with no option to unlock should be illegal.
The Fish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You buy Samsung flagships for the premium hardware and then work within the framework that's available and what works best for you. You can root the Exynos variants but their hardware is almost always inferior to the Snaps. Consequences.
At this point both Samsung and Android newest products are so out of line that they are unusable to me. I don't care what they do, screw them. I'm in a holding pattern for 3+ more years happily using my N10+'s... I don't care. All my issues are worked out because I threw time at them to do so and I'm very satisfied with the outcome.
In 3+ years I will reevaluate the situation and decide what to do. Right now as things stand I don't reccomend any new Samsung's or anything Android version above Android 10. Unfortunately I have no easy solutions for you other than what I did. Even that isn't simple fix but it's a zero risk fix. I refuse to risk damaging these N10+'s by mucking with their firmware unless its needed for repair.
blackhawk said:
Well you knew there be connectivity issues and that should have flagged it. Custom roms have custom problems with a limited user/support base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
thefish123 said:
The reason I purchased this specific model was so that I could run a custom ROM. But the connectivity issues are not caused by the custom rom. They are caused by the fact that I am using a phone designed for a different market where different LTE bands are used.
And yes, I knew that ahead of time. And I am not regretting that. But you are missing the point. The radio in my phone is perfectly capable of using the LTE bands that my carrier uses. So why shouldn't there be a straightforward way to enable them?
What if I used to live in Europe and moved to Canada? Should I be forced to buy a new phone just because Samsung doesn't let me change LTE bands? Or if I travel between Europe and Canada on business then I just have to suffer with crummy reception?
My point is one of ownership, property rights.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
blackhawk said:
Connectivity is paramount. Regardless of what your user rights should be, you need to work within the limits of the options available. The square peg round hole thing...
You may be able to enable those bands and that's probably where you should be directing your energy. I purposely try to avoid having to do that as much as possible and never had to. You dove down the rabbit hole, hopefully it's not too deep. Try looking at the hidden phone user settings first... I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I agree. Being a phone is the most important thing that a phone does. And I am directing my energies in that direction as well. But in the process, it occures to me that a messed-up antagonistic anti-customer ecosystem this whole thing is. We would *never* accept this from a computer company, a car manufacturer, or a home builder. Yet, for some reason, we accept it from phone makers like Samsung and that we need to work within these [artificially imposed] limits.
Anyway, yes, there used to be a hidden phone menu (why hidden?) that would have let me enable the bands that I need. But Samsung removed it sometime last year with an update. Again, why?!?!
I'll keep looking. I'm sure I will figure out something in time inspite of Samsung, not because of them.
The Fish
What OS version are you on?
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
My knowledge in this area is very limited. The sim card always configured it perfectly for me.
Best to check with your carrier to be sure that phone model is on their white list.
You could try seeing if someone help you from your carrier tech support...sometimes you get lucky if you try enough.
blackhawk said:
What OS version are you on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am running LineageOS 19.1.
blackhawk said:
The band selections are probably still there although means of access may have changed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The band selection app is categorically *not* there anymore because it A) it was part of the Samsung firmware and B) even if I was on Samsung firmware it wouldn't be there anymore either because Samsung removed it.
There used to be a tool you could download that would allow you to access the "hidden" band selection app. But it stopped working because Samsung removed the hidden app altogeather. Like I said in my original post on this thread "Oh, there are tricks… download this tool or that… but some don’t work anymore because of update XYZ…"
My point is that the whole nonsense of disabled bands and locked bootloaders is infuriating. I is like buying a computer that can only access the internet at full speed in Europe and if you fly to Canada and use it there you get penalized with 1/2 speed. Oh, and even through you could change it with the flip of a switch that switch is buried, disabled, hidden behind locked doors.
The Google Pixel 7 Pro has all the bands turned on (i.e. there is one phone for the whole world) and the boot loader is unlocked. Just saying...
At some point I will probably prevail in getting the bands I need turned on. And then I will likely be very happy with this phone for the next 5+ years. But none of that changes the fact that this anti-consumer predatory behavior on the part of Samsung is unacceptable.
The Fish