Related
Age of Heroes is a whole thoroughly developed world, it’s a myriad of big and small stories, and it’s a place for feats, explorations and adventures for thousands of players. Age of Heroes has no limits in time or space – join us and you’ll see it for yourself!
Now players of can take part in beta-test of Age of Heroes Online client for Android OS.
irenOd said:
Age of Heroes is a whole thoroughly developed world, it’s a myriad of big and small stories, and it’s a place for feats, explorations and adventures for thousands of players. Age of Heroes has no limits in time or space – join us and you’ll see it for yourself!
Now players of can take part in beta-test of Age of Heroes Online client for Android OS.
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okay, i dont want to be the ass but someone has to say it.
in which way does this fit in the DEVELOPMENT section?!? there is general discussion, apps and games and whatever. why then in development? because its a beta??
hmpf..
please first think then open a new thread and hopefully then in the right section...
lolmensch said:
okay, i dont want to be the ass but someone has to say it.
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You really should have let someone else say it. Now you are what you didn't want to be.
have a nice day
wcdisciple said:
You really should have let someone else say it. Now you are what you didn't want to be.
have a nice day
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It was moved by a moderator because it should have never been placed in Development. General or Apps would be most appropriate. Of course there are always better ways of pointing it out though and there really is no reason to be at each other for it. The post was moved and that's that.
Binary100100 said:
It was moved by a moderator because it should have never been placed in Development. General or Apps would be most appropriate. Of course there are always better ways of pointing it out though and there really is no reason to be at each other for it. The post was moved and that's that.
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Being that you decided to quote me....
My thing is this, i don't care what section the topic is in. I don't care if it's moved or not. I don't care who moves it or who leaves it where it is. I could care less.
Personally, i surf the forums to see if i can obtain any info that is useful and if i can assisst anyone that may need help etc. That's it point blank period.
And in my opinion it's unneccessary for those that aren't mods to constantly go through endless posts pointing out what belongs where. People don't get on here to be told by faceless keyboard killers what to do.
Also to clarify something, I wasn't getting at him/her. I would've taken things in a totally different direction.
Quick question...why can't the mods just simply tell all those that are looking for moderator jobs, by way of being bossy and trying to clown others on here, that they know what their jobs are and leave it to them to do their job? That would eliminate some animosity. But that's just a thought.
I don't need to hear back from you either. Just voicing my opinion and thoughts just as you did.
wcdisciple said:
Being that you decided to quote me....
My thing is this, i don't care what section the topic is in. I don't care if it's moved or not. I don't care who moves it or who leaves it where it is. I could care less.
Personally, i surf the forums to see if i can obtain any info that is useful and if i can assisst anyone that may need help etc. That's it point blank period.
And in my opinion it's unneccessary for those that aren't mods to constantly go through endless posts pointing out what belongs where. People don't get on here to be told by faceless keyboard killers what to do.
Also to clarify something, I wasn't getting at him/her. I would've taken things in a totally different direction.
Quick question...why can't the mods just simply tell all those that are looking for moderator jobs, by way of being bossy and trying to clown others on here, that they know what their jobs are and leave it to them to do their job? That would eliminate some animosity. But that's just a thought.
I don't need to hear back from you either. Just voicing my opinion and thoughts just as you did.
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My apologizes. I didn't intend on singling anyone out. You were just the last comment. And I personally think that it's fine for members to point out that a post is in the wrong section as long as it is done politely. Unfortunately this isn't always the case. Especially amongst the Senior Members because they have seen it repeatedly for months or even years. And no matter how many times they point out that a post is in the wrong thread there will always be more. So it becomes frustrating to them. I can say this because I can relate because I have been guilty of it myself in the past. It all comes down to the basic rule of being respectful toward others.
And to answer your question regarding the wannabe mods. All mods started off as regular members. The more serious of a member you are the more likely it is that you would be an ideal candidate for being a moderator. I just received my duties and in fact I have to admit, it's been tough. It's not as easy as you think reading threads that you have no interest in, cleaning, merging, deleting, censoring, etc. And with a new structure being laid out effective very recently moderators such as myself are being assigned for specific forums so that the members will have a few common moderators to turn to instead of a different and random moderator each time. This should make everyone's job easier and hopefully calm things down a bit. But none of that is an excuse for wannabe moderators that want to treat other members with disrespect. If they really want to be moderators then that will come back and bite them later since they are breaking one of the basic rules themselves.
Bottom line, if anyone has a problem with a post being in the wrong thread then they can kindly remind the OP that it is in an inappropriate thread and identify the appropriate one for them along with educating them with the reason why. The post should also be reported so that it can be moved before the thread gets out of hand with flammers and rude comments. We also don't need five people reminding the OP that the they posted it in the wrong thread either. Once the thread is posted the OP cannot do anything about it besides request it to be moved. Reminding the OP several times isn't going to change anything except for making the thread more hostile and nobody wants that.
Binary100100 said:
My apologizes.
All mods started off as regular members.
But none of that is an excuse for wannabe moderators that want to treat other members with disrespect.
Bottom line, if anyone has a problem with a post being in the wrong thread then they can kindly remind the OP that it is in an inappropriate thread and identify the appropriate one for them along with educating them with the reason why.
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Hey, no need to apologize. I didn't and don't feel disrespected in the least. I don't take anything on the internet pesonal. Itz not my style. If a person isn't in throat strangling distance I don't take **** personal. And that's not a jab at you. Itz just the way it is.
I didn't want to quote your whole post, but suffice it to say, you made your point. And not that you're looking for or need my "seal of approval" but, you're alright in my book. Peace.
I just noticed this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=638133
May I ask why there is a ban on discussions of which ROMs are best?
Isn't that the whole point of a forum?
Is there anything else we should be aware of? banned words, certain sentences, are there any particular phrases that we can get into trouble for?
Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Am I going to get into trouble for this message because you don't like it?
Well i think it has nothing to do with ''censure''. Just some of us think that there is no BEST ROM and one should find out the BEST ROM for himself by himself.
But i may be wrong.
There is actualy no best rom!
For every user there is a best experience/stability/usefullness
How can you say its the best rom for me if it doesnt suit my taste?
Every HD2 behaves diferently from batch to batch, so another issue, for your hd2 one build may work perfect and for me - not at all...
No point in these threads.
Go in the apropreate build thread and post there, say whatever you like - it's the best, it's the worse...
I can't see any censureship here.
There is actualy no best rom!
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This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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if all the mor... eh users where able to make just whatever post on the boards they liked everything would be a insane mess. topics that come along every week or so are usles they always have the same result. one user says THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!11111oneoneone the other says NO YOU SUCK THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!1111oneone and this wil go on for about 40 pages and still no one is any wiser.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
The problem here is that alot of users have their opinions and they think their opinions are the only possible correct answer. And guess what oppinions can't be wrong. They can be different weird or even downright bizarre but they are all correct in their own world.
So you can create a topic and expect a flood of spam flame wars and rubbish but all it gets you is either a major Troll boner or a headache.
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
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And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
when you register acount on this site/forum,do you check YES/accept with the ruules
Because this is a development forum (or we try to be).
Disucssions on the "Best ROM" are subjective, and time limitted. Most people have thier faviorite ROM, this is not the best ROM, but they believe it is. I have seen these threads in the past and they just deteriate into "Fanboi'istic" (word a day ) debates over who's ROM is best and why.
A Clean ROM is fast and customisable, a Loaded ROM is feature rich, a themed ROM is the Chef's taste, etc.
Here is a lengthy discussion which I participated in last time this topic was raised : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
No ROM is BEST !!!!!1111oneoneone11! (Though personally I think that ****** ROMs are good)
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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You can talk the hell out of it, no one is stopping you, just do it in the right place - the build thread.
If you don't like the way moderators run the forum you can delete the account and make your personal Freedom forum or whatever you like...
Personaly I think you are a joke.
Be well and speak freely
btw
As a fellow xda user said above: you accepted the rules which the creators/owners/moderators of this forum ask us to comply with. Period!
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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I see that you do not get the point of all this:
- that thread has been closed because it has no point.
- you can discuss the best rom thing for 1000 pages and there will be no BEST ROM, because there is no best rom.
-of course you can tell other people what you think about a rom but your best rom will not be my best rom
- so this is why that thread was closed.
-it is F***ING POINTLESS
- JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.
I agree this thread is totally pointless.
It would be great if a moderator closes it as it brings nothing to discuss just like the other thread that was closed.
If everyone would open a thread like this it would be very hard to find the best rom as the board
would be all cluttered with best rom threads and yes and no discussions.
DaveShaw
That was a very helpful post, the link you posted was most helpful and I especially agree with the well-crafted response from dumpydooby.
I apologise if I have posted in the wrong place and quite understand if this thread is moved to the correct place.
You are also correct that discussions of this nature are time limited.
Obviously we can all see that this is a subject of passion to many.
In my humble opinion there should always be a 'what we think is the best ROM for device X at the moment' thread. When it does get too old or argumentative etc. then just start a new one.
berbecverde
I disagree, I think there will always be a need to discuss the most popular combination of ROM/Radio/Apps of the moment. If you feel strongly that we should not have this freedom then I feel strongly that you are wrong.
lms1407
You just revert to personal insults, I'll bet you say things like 'this conversation is over!'
Avon76
Do you really think that your post was helpful? Honestly?
Massive post wot I prepared earlier follows, look away now if you're not interested.....
I suspect that this whole thread will be deleted or removed or force closed by the censors very soon so read it while you can.
Let me illustrate my points here, remember that I am talking about my dislike for censoring these forums in general for any topics but let's use the topic of discussion of ROMs to show how the censors are damaging the integrity of the forums and shooting themselves in their own feet at the same time.
Let's do it with a thought experiment.
Developers A, B, C and D develop ROMs for device X and make them available to users.
Users, quite within their rights in my opinion decide to discuss the various merits, likes and dislikes about these ROMs in a thread called 'Best ROMs for device X' where one user says 'I liked the graphics on A's ROM but I really liked the apps on D's ROM and I found C's ROM to be a bit unstable and I'm using ROM B at the moment because ...... '
Please imagine your answer for this question.
Who will benefit from this discourse?
Developers A, B, C or D ?
The users ?
Everyone ?
It is quite obvious that some of the users with the ability to close threads have the opinion that all ROMs should be tried and that there should be no shortcuts and new users should be railroaded into having to go through all the procedures that 'everyone else has had to do' and their only method to enforce this policy is to censor what is allowed to be posted but I would like to point out that in doing so they are going against some peoples wishes, look at one of the posts in that other thread (created by a senior member) where one user states:
Personally think this thread is a good idea for people like myself don't have a lot of spare time and haven't flashed a ROM yet; but are interested in doing so and want to know a good place to start, based on more seasoned users experiences.
I for one will be keenly viewing this thread (provided it doesn't get closed!).
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However apart from all the unseen damage that censorship causes, in this particular case the developers might get some valuable insight into what users are actually looking for, a healthy competition might be the result and then who do you think is going to get the benefit in the end? Everyone!
There will always be those who want to try every ROM and Radio etc. but at the moment these people are restricted to the individual ROM threads if they want to share the results of their hard work and anyone who wants to see an objective discussion of the merits of the different ROM/Radio/Apps versions is forced to look on other forums on other websites.
The developers never really get to know what it is that the users really want.
Look at the mechanism at the moment, the user goes to the thread of developer A and says 'you're ROM is the best! Fantastic!, would it be possible to adjust this bit here?' and the developer thinks cool, they really love my ROM and he may or may not get around to adjusting that bit there.
Look at what it could be like:
Yeah, developer A's ROM is ok but I user developer B's ROM at the moment coz A's doesn't do this ...'
No kissass required, if developer A wants everyone to use his ROM then he'll need to make it like everyone wants or better.
Laurentius26
I see the massive amount of posts that you have made, I'm sure that you have been of tremendous help to a lot of people and that your opinion probably carries a lot of weight around here but I have to ask this question, would you not agree that the definition of a pointless post is that no-one replies to it?
Would you not agree that the mere fact that this topic is getting a lot of replies would indicate that it is in fact a topic of interest and therefore cannot be regarded as pointless?
I can see the potential advantages of having such threads, but seeing the number of arguments and fall outs users have already regarding ROMs abilities, chef preferences, what makes a good ROM, etc. it would fail.
If all our users were well bahaved (which they are not), they all stayed on-topic then we wouldn't need as many mods as we do now. As it is, there are many reported posts everyday from users that require mods attention, keeping the forum as organised and as friendly as we can.
Having to maintain "Best ROM" threads would be tiresome with well behaved users, just having to keep closing and re-opening new threads based on public opinion, but throw in troll, flamer's, fanbois it would be work.
In the past we have allowed "ROM Comparison" threads, that are fact driven, not opinion driven, as there is no reason not to.
My other concern is what will happen to Chefs if other users constantly down vote their ROM's (that is if they want to follow that thread as well as their own ROM threads).
Also,
Closing a thread does not censor it. It is still viewable and searchable, new useres, can search the site for the "Best HD2 ROM" and find a link to threads explaining why they are closed and what's the best way to try a new ROM. In guides I have previously assisted in writing (mskip's, Kaiser and Rhodium) it includes text advising users which is ROM to try first. If a user is new to XDA, they are encouraged to post questions in such threads, where (all been well) they will get a reply telling them to just try one after reading about the features. I have suggested NRG's ROMs to new users in the past because of their stability and popularity.
Dave
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
IanMc said:
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
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For a bit of history this decision was made long before I was a mod, and spent my Senior member days handing out insults to those who created those threads.
Even back then when a good number of users were mature and technical, before android and the mass increase of new members with, the mods (a few still remain ) knew the problems with such threads. As such, I don't think we will ever shift from this position.
Also,
I am a stackoverflow.com user and they have a similar rules on subjective posting for many of the same reasons.
This thread is just retarded even more then the ridiculous "what the best rom" threads.
Those threads are not "censored" they are simply moved or deleted because people are getting sick of them as they are asked every day and the answer is the same every time but still you get n00bs asking.
Its like going into ice0cream shop and saying "hey what your best ice-cream", just plain stupid.
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
IanMc said:
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
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Go buy a CHE t shirt and go yell at the white house fight the power and all its censorship. Seriously you accepted rules when you registered here. This is not a democracy this is a privately owned forum where moderators decide if some topic is retarded yes or no.
And i hate to bring it to you like this but a retarded monkey fish is less retarded then that topic. No amount of talking or trying to convince your topic is something different then the next what build is best for my HD2 because i am to lazy to search topic. That kind of topic gets closed nearly EVERY DAY.
So again if you are so keen to fight the power buy a che t shirt and go yell at your local government.
May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
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No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
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I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!
mokopokko said:
May I remind the armv(k)-team to this section of the forum rules from xda-developers:
No need to flame others over your apocalypse rom. It is, after all, just another rom and nothing special that will change the world.
None of your "features" are exclusive to your rom and there's absolutley no reason for *****ing around like that.
I also may quote rule#10:
I don't know about you, but sharing knowledge is what this forum is all about, right?
It's not about fame...
If all this Linux/Android stuff was closed-source, e.g. the developers wouldn't share the "how to" then you wouldn't be able to build a custom rom in the first place. None of this knowledge is exclusively yours.
What do you think you are? Privileged nobility?
Correct me, if I'm wrong, but you didn't invent any of this, did you?
You copied what you saw elsewhere. And exchanging a "b" for an "a" doesn't make it "your" work...
And next time you pirate some movie or mp3 from the internet (I know you will), please think about your reaction!
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Hope they read this
I do not agree. They have seen their work posted before release, from unknown guy. Anyone would go upset.
No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...
I cant speak in the name of my other members in term of the cursing part
I always was clean in my words, never said bad words
But in that from other parts "Sorry"
I dont mind sharing stuff or anything as said before
The only thing is people taking credit on other peoples work, its not about fame its about been correct
The files got corrupt, so we will never know the truth, but i think that has been settled
THe main problem here was someone that got the coding before release and sent it out behing our back
Nuff said
Best Regards
Motafoca
Dude. First stop reminders and start helping people. Look at your post count. Dont try to be smart. Next be a developer and then you will know how it pains when some one stole your months hard work and sleepless nights. So better stop posting and start helping.
MOD: Please review this thread and delete.
Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.
shadow7582 said:
Your work was leaked by your own team. You said the last time to everyone: "if you want JIT then search for it". Someone has done that found your leaked version and has shared this with us. So you can't just come in here like rudolf and start yelling and offending on everybody who wanted JIT. If something is leaked by your team members its NOT right to blame the Community for that.
After all, thank you for JIT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont you get it!
We stopped it! You fools are starting it again! man you guys are like dirty filthy crabs! pulling our legs to your dirt all the time!
"shadow7582" BEAT IT! go get some fresh air!
mokopokko said:
No. They always said things like "if you want jit and cannot wait, search the internet like we did."
Someone did and found their method.
Owned.
And I don't think that a standard feature of android can be claimed as "their" work.
If they don't want "their" work to be used, they should program their own android without gpl license...
If everybody thought like this none of this stuff that makes android so much better than for example ios would exist.
It's just the wrong attitude.
And btw, they also ripped themes and images without giving proper credits at first.
"whoops, forgot to mention the original creator"
But no one complained.
Now it's their work that gets "compromised" and they act like total jerks.
I dunno....either you wanna share your stuff and expertise like it is ment or you build your own rom just for yourself without bothering others.
Noone really needs a custom rom and noone has to provide one.
Everything that has been achieved already more than we accepted when we bought a g3 with 2.1 as is...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% agreed
EdisDee said:
100% agreed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KID. who the hell are you. I dont know why you are jumping in. You said 100% agree and breaking rules.
No more smart people here. Dont make it complicated.
"Dude" why don't you mind your attidute?
No offense intended, merely stating out facts. If you don't like it, don't like it.
And wtf has my post count to do with all that? Who sais that I'm not an better developer than you? My post count? Come on, give me some credit.
I don't try to be "smart", I try to be resonable.
I think it's not just me that is somewhat annoyed with your attitude.
Because it's against the basic idea.
It's not development related, so I posted it here. You don't want my oppinion. Don't read it.
So better stop flaming innocent people, start reading the forum rules (you obviosly need to, no matter your post count or position inside the community) and then work on your kernel or whatever.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work and am looking forward to it, but I don't like your "policy".
Mokopokko
The persons involved arent complaining, dont come here and troll with other peoples stuff
If the people involved want to complain fine, but you dont have nothing to do with it
Go find something else to do
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot this is your topic.
It's not primarily about your guys work being leaked (believe it or not: you're not the most important parts of my life), I was merely intending to make you guys think about this "freedom of knowledge", "sharing" and "community" thing.
I don't know why you start to insult me.
If you don't want to discuss, don't discuss. It's really that simple.
If noone wants to comment on this thread, noone will and it will be on page 2 tomorrow.
I don't think it's trolling at all.
Flaming on the other hand is defenitly what you guys are doing.
I repeat the same to you. why are you reading and overposting. You are acting smarter now. If you have problem go complain to mods and let them take action if some thing is wrong. Who the hell are you to remind us. If you dont like shut u r as. No big deal. You are breaking forum rules by posting nonsense and wasting our time.
I think only one thing, we must be grateful to this guys for their free work. Here many of us can search on internet and copy the work of others but few know how to do it.
I'm waiting for yours rom since I have seen the announce of Apocalypse.
Then good work and thank you ARMV team.
Edit: sorry for my bad english
Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk
warning to all
hi
a warning to ALL no flaming this thread is closed if any more of this is happens them some one is gona get a Ban pls dont force me to do so
THREAD CLOSED
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
- XDA is a space meant for collaboration and sharing information. Use it for that
- XDA is not a chat room. Posts just to thank or put down another user do nothing to help its purpose (There is a reason for the "Thanks" button).
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything.
- USE THE SEARCH TOOL and HAVE A LOOK AT A FEW PAGES of the thread of interest before posting the question .Likely you will find your answer and it helps PREVENTING threads from reaching the aforementioned 300+ pages, of which maybe like 30 pages actually contain INFORMATION.
- REMEMBER that what you are getting, you are getting for free. That applies both to stuff developed and put up on XDA, be it ROMS, tweaks, patches, whatever and to the wonderful people behind XDA - moderators, etc... whose work is often forgotten. If we as users can't be expected to read through all posts in a forum, why should we expect mods to have to act as if they had the time to do this?
- Having said that, if you like a development/tip/tweak, whatever, use the thanks button and leave it at that. If you don't like something, leave it at that. Posts to the effect of "You are God" or "You sleep with the devil" do nothing but mess with egos. And this forum is about messing with mobile computing platforms, not egos.
TO MODERATORS
- Please refrain from deleting threads. If they get out of hand (and they sometimes do) I humbly suggest that you (a) close them and/or (b) ban any offending users, albeit if only temporarily (aka "suspension").
For all the crap that may have gotten into a thread, most if not all threads contain a lot of useful information that may/will get lost if the thread is deleted. so the non-guilty parties get shafted as badly as the guilty. And I prefer to think that the majority of users are actually interested in moving things forward.
- Just an idea - but rather than having a simple requirement to have an account to post, would it be possible for you guys to set up a system whereby certain forums could only be posted to by users of a certain seniority - and preferably with a distinction to starting new threads or replying to existing threads.
Following on to this, I believe that the seniority requirements can be improved in a relatively easy way - maturity comes from experience, which is not necessarily related to # of posts (any fool can type 30 irrelevant posts in a day). What would you say to a system where, in addition to a minimum # of posts, a user needs to have been a member/at his previous seniority level for a certain amount of time? That should not be too difficult to implement and would help people get into the feel of things before blabbing off. Short tempers usually can't hold off a couple of weeks/months...
- THANKS for this great place!!!! Your efforts are too often forgotten.
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
"
...Nor do posts whose only content is "Use the search tool" or "posted previously in this thread" (w/o further information) or similar - while some people may in fact be lazy enough to not to search/look in some cases it's kind of hard to look through 300+ pages of posts to find 1 link or piece of information. Or to sort through hundreds of hits to a search. If you know the answer to a question, please share it. If not, welll....don't say anything."
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
If people respect the rules then good things happen
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
-PiLoT- said:
actually. members are supposed to read the thread and look for answers. thus eliminating redundant and repeat posts
All in all though ideas that are already in place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
-PiLoT- said:
And as for not deleting threads
if the dev leaves then there no point leaving it open. otherwise we jsut clean them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
acmbc said:
Sure thing - but adding an additional post to JUST say "look in the thread" only makes it longer. No need since the rule is already in place, right?
yes but sometime sits the steps that people need to take since people will not read the rules
Precisely - CLOSE them - they will take up some disk space and trickle down through the thread (being closed).
Cleaning some threads would take you guys ages (500+ pages in some cases).
Deleting them however loses information, whether the dev has left or not (he may always come back as has happened...) and only fans flames for conspiracy theories and other idiocies...I do concede that leaving them there may also spur more garbage initially, but that will stop as the (closed) thread ages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the last lot of threads were closed not deleted
Crocodile1973 said:
as someone who runs a forum and moderates, deleting people's posts for no reason, is pretty poor. Mine was deleted for no reason and no explanation. The situation in the end was to the poorer for XDA. As a DEV left, and could be followed up by more. Instead of a calm hand, all members got was a heavey handed approach, threatening bans. Sorry that is a crap way. and in end has lost XDA many members. how sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
some posts are deleted during a routine thread cleanup
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
-PiLoT- said:
Im not saying your suggestions have no merit.
im saying that some of them are already looked into and some wont work as weve tried them in the past
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kudos to that. If it's been tried and not worked, my bad.
acmbc said:
Like many, I was more than saddened with what happenned on XDA/X10 forii regarding some development threads yesterday.
Without wanting to start yet another flame war, some suggestions to help to try to prevent this and other nastiness from repeating itself in the future:
TO ALL USERS
TO MODERATORS
TO DEVELOPERS
- Thanks for your time, effort, patience and hard work. We really appreciate it!
- Please consider that the strongest point of Android (hey, I'm posting this to the X10 forum, which is Android, no beef against WM or any other platforms) is that it is OPEN, meaning we can ALL work on it, improve it, tweak it, etc...
- That means that users can by default consider whatever is posted as being OPEN and can do likewise. If you feel that whatever you have developed/done is NOT open, then say so. And if you want a stronger protection for your work, or users aren't respecting your work, then publish it under some kind of license so everyone else knows what to expect and you have legal grounds - GPL, LGPL, ASL, Berkeley, etc... there are a number of them to choose from.
- Collaboration means being open to new ideas, praise and constructive criticism. Attitudes like "THIS **** IS MINE AND NOONE TOUCHES IT" (pardon the profanity) isn't really very constructive in an open source environment. You are not god. Help and inspiration may come from even the least probable places.
Well, that was long-winded. If I have offended anyone (I hope not) pardonnez-moi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
svtfmook said:
well, my 2 cents
i agree on the "users" part
on the "to moderators" part, i disagree
mods don't need to "refrain" from deleting threads, that's what mods do. they do it for specific reasons, not just because they are self-proclaimed e-gods with a ban hammer. if threads need closed or deleted, that's what mods are here for. also, this site is not a democracy. a lot of members don't seem to understand that petitions and moral support for offending members who were banned or threads closed/deleted, will not exactly unban/reopen. granted, i'm sure if there was a collaborated majority between the mods, it will. but users making 30+ separate threads on the same subject (or lately the same dev) only makes things worse. all of these trip apostles are doing more harm than good. i know all these recent trip threads annoy the crap out of me, i can only imagine the work and annoyance it brings moderators.
as far as the dev section of your post goes
you can't take info/sources from some, then accuse EVERY dev for using yours, making comments like "i'm going to download this and check the files for my sources". seriously, it's unprofessional and immature.
as far as the trip situation goes
i have no idea what happened last night, but, where as he may be a great dev, being a dev is NOT for him. he cannot take criticism, he wants to share nothing with other devs, he was not working collabratively with anyone to benefit the community, and honestly, he seems the have the attitude of a 14 y/o girl. how many times does one person need to "threaten with leaving", then never doing so. then upon realizing that not enough begs to stay filled his ego, actually leave only to make a sudden reappearance because, there's really no other dev site out there to the extent of xda.
this isn't the first time he's been gone, although i this time was not his choice, i'm sure he will be back again.
oh, one other thing, you go to any other sub-forum on xda, and there is no drama like there is on the x10 sections. seriously, did SE market these things specifically to 14 y/o drama queens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Trip's work, heck, I even use it on my phone these past months.
There's a post I made in "News about current circumstances" thread that explains my point extensively.
Also, I know it in my gut that he will be back for sure.
You know why?
He feeds on publicity and Modaco forums are too low-populated for his huge ego.
I hope though, that upon his return he will be much more sophisticated and reasonable,
for the sake of every one here.
One can always dream...
PS: I was a 14 year old girl 10 years ago and, man, I'm telling you, I was a major drama queen.
I want to believe I've grown out of it though.
I really think the ideas from the original post would be used in some way at least. Good post OP. Hope xda considers this. There are some great ideas here.
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App
And the thread was closed... (Dissent causes censure).
Fellow Community: Something going arawy in the Samsung I9100 (Galaxy S2) forums.
The purpose of me opening this thread is to ensure community discussion occurs.
With good intentions, our User Experinance Admin @sveitus has sliced apart The Samsung Galaxy S II Android Development, hiving off `the cream` into The Samsung Galaxy S II Original ROM development thread.
The idea being to Quoting (and please read @sveitus's post in case I'm selectively quoting) the explanitory thread
This forum is for ROMs that aren't an original creation by you in terms of the underlying software, meaning, they've been either 1. developed with assistance from a kitchen or are 2. a re-skinning/re-themeing/minor adjustment of a particular ROM developed by someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Original ROM's are now found within this subforum
Setting aside the lunacy of thinking that anything apart from ASOP and Samsung's stock ROM isn't derived from something else... or the difficulties in determining which belongs in one thread or another (just watch them bouncy from one to another), I find a two things contra XDA ethos.
This subdivision was done without community consultation.
When announced, there was rapid dissent and the response was to close the thread (for heavens sake).
In fairness, to quote @sveitus
P.S. This is a bit of an experiment. Should it make sense, we'll roll it out to other forums on XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
, although my concern is that there is no criteria laid down for "success"
I believe this is a reaction, maybe considered, to two things:
I believe that proportion of the community would like to see forums divided (from what I can tell, divided into Kernels, ROMs and Modems), a proportion are comfortable (complacenty abiding with?) the current structure and a proportion who want to differentiate `original` with `derived`. As is also common in politics, the silent majority will be ignored in favour of the loud minority. I suspect that the democratic view is unknown in this instance.
I believe that this split is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident where someone released a ROM claiming their own work when (to be confirmed?) all bar part of a theme was taken raw from another source uncredited.
Personally speaking, for a mod to close a thread without explaination isn't easily forgiveable.
What say you?
p.s. (edit) We already have different classes of users based on number of postings, etc.
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
svetius said:
The forums are not going to be divided. What we did with Galaxy S II was just an experiment...an attempt to keep themes/derivative ROMs (that are based on other ROMs) separate from everything else. Never was this about separating "top tier" developers from everyone else.
As we are going to announce today, we're working on a long-term solution for this, through a ROM database.
Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the quick response. I guess the division of the Samsung S2 forum was an incredibly short lived experiment and I imagine they are being remerged as I type and that themes can live where always should have in their own `themes and apps` sub forum.
I do understand why it is desirable to identify deriviative ROMs (hint: Look at the HD2 Android Dev forum(s) rules to see a great example of useful identification tags in subjects).
Sending you a pm regarding the closure of the thread (for the purpose of me opening this thread was to offer awareness and give our community a voice.
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from and just want a category which just contains ROMS, no sitckies, no dev no "coming" soons, just fully flashable ROMS. Now if you could so this it would make this area much easier to use.
I have to say I just don't get this ROM theft rubbish, Android is supposed to be open source, if you don't want to share your ROM don't post it full stop. If donations are'nt good enough for you then don't post it. If someone uses your work then see it as a compliment and live with it. Adding rules and further layers of complexity to the ROM cooking process is just causing arguments that need not be there. Cooks have to accept that their work is going to used, DEVs also as long as it isn't actually an app.
Now if this attitude puts some people off then the ROMS posted will be fewer in number but populated with those lovingly crafted for the sake of it and not by those who simply want ego boosts to or to generate a profit, this isnt what open source or XDA is supposed to be about...!
discuss..
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
With you on the rest of it.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
stoolzo said:
...Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In a perfect world, that would be ideal. Relying on people to do the right thing would unfortunately lead to chaos. Why? Should we get rid of police officers and courts and just rely on people to "do the right thing"? Nice idea, however the world you mention is fantasy.
stoolzo said:
I'm just a user and I wonder how many other user dont really care where there ROMS have come from
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
tomj777 said:
I think we need to be careful about open. If I was to take the post above, change a couple of words and claim as my own then you would be understandably upset that i plagiarised your work. However, if I reply, building upon your message and credit you then that's a positive thing.
Open source is the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
stoolzo said:
Not at all, I strongly believe open source should be just that and that alone, plagiarism should not even exist on here. There should be no rules for cooking or ingredients at all. If everyone worked this way then there would be no complaints, everyone would just be sharing everything, we may even see better roms even if we do loose a few players.
Best option is no rules, anything goes and rely on people to do the right thing, those that don't will soon come to light and be appropriately chastised I am sure, this should be good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
khein said:
I for one, also don't care which came from which. Though I understand the devs' who want to protect their fame/donations, which I think the primary reason for these copying disputes.
This is true especially if money is involve.
ROM DEV A created a GOOD ROM = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%
ROM DEV B, IMPROVED/CUSTOMIZED ROM OF DEV A = donation of ROM DEV B = xx% = donation of ROM DEV A = 100%-xx%
NOTE: Above is just an example.
I think "orig" ROM devs feels that the donations coming to "derivative" ROM devs should have been theirs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
egzthunder1 said:
Our society/community is far from the utopic concept that you talk about. I would love nothing more than to not have to enforce any rules in here, trusting that people would just do the right thing, but unfortunately this is far from over. Quite frankly matters got much worse after the introduction of Android. Back when xda was solely focused on Windows Mobile, plagiarism was something that was hardly ever seen around these areas. Everyone had work out in the open, work which they gladly shared with everyone just for the advancement of the platform (and partial resentment against Microsoft ). That work was always credited, any and all help was always acknowledged, and people were all working together towards the same goal. If you want a more utopic XDA, go back 4 years in time and you will find one. Funny enough, it wasn't until Android hit that I learned that this site had moderators. I knew about the administrators but not about moderators... that is how utopic this place was. And if you look at my join date, I have been active here for a very long time.
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Click to collapse
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
DaveShaw said:
Something I think has been missed from these discussions is...
One of the objectives here is to make it easier for users to finds ROMs that just variants of one they already have; the same underlying code base, but with tweaks to improve the user experience; and ROMs with actual improvements - bug fixes, major improvements, etc.
I'm not trying to make a point here, just illustrate another reason for the changes.
Dave
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I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
egzthunder1 said:
No, you are missing the point completely. In your equation, simply replace the word "donation" with the word "feedback". What is dev B going to do with feedback that was meant to go for dev A? Or better yet, if all that dev B did was throw theme packages together and zipped them into a flashable rom, what can dev B do when feedback comes to him asking him to fix something? Dev A needs these feedback and bug reports to improve his work.
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I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
stoolzo said:
The anything goes really can only be the way forward here because what you are are suggesting in any form is a total nightmare for users which completely defeats the object of XDA, remove ease of use and usefulness and you have no XDA and people will start to leave in droves.
If you agree that 4 years ago was far more ideal than it is currently then why aren't you trying to pull things back to where it was then? All you have to do is to post new rules about XDA stepping back on moderation and leaving users to self moderate. Advise that you will still deal with complaints but on a case by case basis by email and not be thread posts, setup and [email protected] or something. Just moderate the legal and unpleasant stuff.
yes it would be nice to have a one fits all system were everyone would receive the exact amount praise or donations for the work done, in proportion to what effort was put in, this WILL NEVER HAPPEN, if you keep loading layer up layer of complexity on top then you will just break it altogether, plus when something is open source nobody has the right to anything, praise, donations, nothing, open source is about good will, not profit, not fame or fortune. I think XDA allows themselves to get to mixed up in this.
Sometimes you just got to sit back and say F*ck it and let things ride.
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Click to collapse
Users did not self moderate 4+ years ago.... there was less need for moderation. You didn't see constant intervention by mods, not because the rules were not in place or because the mods were not around, but rather because there was no drama in the titanic proportions that we see it daily. It is very easy to speak from the regular member's stand point, but the amount of stuff that we (mods and admins) see going through this site day in and day out since the smartphone market exploded would make you want to jump out of a window!
You are suggesting, in essence, that we do away with our rules and let people "do the right thing." Why? Our rules have been in place since early 2003 when the site was founded. For over 5 years, these rules have made xda-developers the site that many regard today as the largest developer community on the web.
You speak of the objective of XDA, what do you think this is? Do you know what the true mission of this site is? XDA is a development and hacking community. It isn't end users that make this community, it is developers, hackers, and enthusiast that are the back-bone of this site. Do you want to know what XDA truly is about?
Read this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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This is the true ethos of XDA. This is what our community and founding members believed and still do regarding how our site should work and what our members should do to "fit" here.
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
khein said:
I have yet to experience what your talking about. ROM B has a problem? Moved to ROM A..
Derived ROM Dev tells "ORIG" ROM Dev an issue? "ORIG" ROM Dev replies that his/her ROM users doesn't report issues, and tells he/she(derived ROM dev) must have done something wrong.
That is normally what happens, because most bugs/issues are found by the "ORIG" rom users.
What if I hosted a copy/modified/derived version of the XDA forums. And my so-called derived XDA forum managed to gain some fame/high activity, even managed to catch up with xda's status/market share. Then one day, a major issue occured, and I couldn't fix it as the problem seems to come from the "ORIG" xda source BUT the "ORIG" xda forum doesn't have this problem. Do you think the XDA admin, would even bother to help me fix my derived XDA forum seeing that his "ORIG" forum could replicate the problem?
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Tbh I think you miss the point. We aren't saying derivative roms aren't important. Of course they are. I even use them occasionally myself. If I'm having an issue with a rom I'm using, of course I will try and help fix the bug. What we are trying to do is aid developers by splitting the forums up into two clear sections
stoolzo said:
I see what you were trying to do but it was a huge fail, it was a nice thought but its better just to shove all the ROMS together and let people try them as just because a ROM says it has this, that or the other it doesn't mean it will work as reported and it may have something the flasher wont like. All XDA needs to do is present the information clearly and leave the user to make up their own mind.
I see no need to break down the subs further other than to put ROMS in their own folder, that would definitely make things easier as the current ROM/DEV folder is a total mess.
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That wasn't the only reason you know. Just one of the consequences of the new idea that seems to have been overlooked thus far.
stoolzo said:
Hi, firstly I am not talking about XDA as a whole, I fully understand the need for general forum rules and regs, I am simply talking here about cooking for android, I am not trying to tell you how to run your shop. Cooking for Android is different I think as Android is supposed to open source, on one hand people should not be expecting anything in return for the work but on the other it is implied that they will as this is a good will based forum, it should remain that way (again for android only I cannot speak for other platforms)
I am simply of the opinion, regarding cooking and only cooking that trying to police this is impossible,
I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for genuine devs and people who put a lot of effort into customising a ROM but it is just impossible to weed out the good from the bad as you have clearly found, plenty has already been said on this so I dont really need to say any more.
Its is certainly true that XDA has changed, its grown into something completely different, perhaps its time for major rethink and not just sticking plasters
Have you thought about setting up a tier forum system?.
Tier one: would be invite only by MODs, this would be a completely seperate forum, laid out in the same way but on a different URL maybe. This would be mainly for devs and cooks, people on here could create, view and edits posts on here and also on the standard main forum as it is now.
Tier two: would be invite only or based on numbers of posts and / or numbers of thankyou's perhaps. (from different users). You would be able to view tier 1 but not post. YOu would be able to view and post the standard forum.
tier three: no access to view tier one, can edit and post on the main standard forum only much like a user can a the moment.
Tier 4: read only access to main form (until they join)
People on Tier 1 would then be able to disucss and share stuff without the background hum of zillions of noob questions and posts, this would also be a lot more decure as invite only would keep out the riff raff.
Tier two people would then have an incentive to contribute more to dev and so reach tier 1 status. You could also use this system as a punishment, people cold be denied access to higher levels if they infringe on rules.
Sounds a little eliteist doesnt it?, well it is a little but I probably wont ever make tier one but can understand the need for something like this.
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Click to collapse
Hey,
Tier 1 does sorta exist It's the recognized developer program, which has an area for this.
If I'm honest, what you describe sounds very much like the new system, with a "big stuff" section (the rec dev area), then a tier 2 area, where the "original" stuff goes, and a tier 3 area for the remainder?
well, not really, my way does not seeks to discourage people by singling out their work, however apparently trivial it may appear to be inferior to others - openly...
My idea was really about giving the more technical / coding minded people more of a say in how they work, somewhere more quiet to share and discuss stuff. If you say this already exists then why don't you extend it to encompass the more favoured cooks?, the more stuff worked on and completed at this level will leave less to fight over at my level.
I still think you should put all the ROMS back together in one category and kick out all the other dev stuff into to its own, if only to help us lowly users find out next ROM more easily, don't forget about us