UPDATED 1/7/13
1/7>Added a basic phone model structure layout to this
Hello,
I suppose laying out my business idea for others to take may not be great, but I wanted the communities opinion, since I would start this small and possible not for another year or so. Plus, if someone took the idea, I would be just as glad to see it.
I would like to manufacture two types of phones you rarely see on the market today (if at all)
First type, for the Dev and Tinkerer:
-These phones would be made as cheap as possible, with varying quality. I would like to keep the price as minimal as possible on these phones so that little profit is made, but that way I could get cheap open source devices out to the masses. Whether you want a cheap phone for the kids, or multiple devices for a dev team. Either way, the tricky part will be that I need to know how much to order, because the more I can get the parts in bulk, the cheaper it will be for me to make, and thus, for you all to buy. I am open to any ideas on making the casing, or if anyone has hardware deals or websites that would be good to use for a supplier, that information would be great!
Second type, Luxury:
-I like high quality items. I like fancy packaging, I like products made to LAST. These phones will counter the other devices by price greatly. While the cheaper phones I plan to offer at around $200-400, the luxury phones will be around $ 2,000-4,000. I do plan to profit off of these, but no more than to offset the low price of the cheaper phones. The luxury phones will offer premade designs and models, or more expensive, but entirely custom phones.
I plan to offer a lifetime warranty on the luxury phones. If we cannot fix it, half off a new device. I will also offer a limited warranty as well. I want you to have these devices as long as possible. I want easy to replace screens, modular hardware for upgrades or swapping out the internals but keeping the case (for expensive luxury shells).
The materials for the luxury phones would range from woods to metals like tungsten and titanium. For custom phones we would be open to any ideas you have. This includes extra additions like more buttons or notification LEDs. On phone model I plan for would make use of a set row of notification LEDs and buttons. We will also tailor the AOSP ROM installed on your device to how you want. I hope to be able to hire nice designers to theme the Android operating system to match your custom designed outer design of your phone.
Eventually I would like to venture into tablets yes, and if I start with small, side project type devices, I suppose most would be custom order. If you guys like the idea for the cheap phones I could try for a kickstarter if I can get the suppliers and employees lined up. That way we could order in bulk and deliver cheap devices to the masses.
A bit of me:
The reason why I wanted to do this is because I hate how devices built today are not meant to last. Aside from a few Nokia phones, things just seem cheap, plasticy. I personally would pay extra to have a nice metal shell and reinforced insides to my phone. I want to chose where my power and volume buttons go. I also hate the prices. I think for cheaper phones, we should pay less, and for quality phones, we can afford more.
The last thing, is stock ROMs. I hate them. I love AOSP, and I will work the Open Source feel into all the phones. You will have total control, and hopefully with the help of XDA, you can have a helpful community to help with all issues.I believe in personal costumer service, and if I come back to you in 2 years, I want you to saw your happy you bought a phone my team made, and that you would want to extend the devices life.
If you guys want to help, as questions, post ideas, make comments, feel free!
Basic:
-Price: As low as I can go! ($200-400)
-Internals: Mid range stuff, good enough to run everything smoothly, but the cheapest parts I can find.
-Shell: Possibly 3d printed plastic or other material that are cheap and still durable.
Starting line:
-Price: Around $400
-Internals, same as Basic, but possibly a bit better if requested, or just held in place more securely to survive more drops and beatings
-Shell: Car painting aluminum, steel, or other metals.
(for example http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dockplus/charging-dock-for-iphone-5 it looks plastic, but it's the paint. Very nice finish)
[I plan to offer basic customization options of these, and they may be around $500-600 if need be and could be a "flagship" phone to compete directly with other companies, although I assume the basic model alone will do that]
Luxury:
-Price: $1000-2000
-Internals: the reasonable best. Most likely a quad core processor, high amounts of storage (32GB or so). Internals here will be fairly customizable, possibly even tegra 3 chipsets if requested.
-Shell: TBA. These will be custom made cases, but ones that can be produced more easily, and we won't offer much of customer input for these. Most likely different cases ranging from wood to metal. Later on once we have a designer I plan to actually make drawings and have the community decide on the first wave of Luxury phones. Later I plan to make old custom models into luxury ones.
Custom:
-Price: $2000-4000
-Internals: Whatever they want. The best quality, everything internally will be ruggardized to take a beating. All components will be modular too, hopefully for luxury as well, for easy replacing of parts and screens, so you won't pay that huge up front price again since the case will be the expensive part of these phones.
-Shell: Literally, anything you can dream within realities laws. This is where I plan to have a skilled team, ready to make WHATEVER you want. Want LED trips so your phone lights a whole room the color of the rainbow when you get a text? Sure! Touch back panel? We can try! Extra buttons, yup!
Anything you can think of for a custom phone, we will try and make, and then quote you a price. This is the end goal of the company, and the phone manufacturing will probably start for the basic, and end with the luxury.
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
rj88 said:
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
iytrix said:
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
SouL Shadow said:
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
rj88 said:
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Riyal said:
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
iytrix said:
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, now I see a viable plan starting to form. The only major issue I see is the pricing for custom phones. Of course luxury phones would cost, especially depending on the options. Probably not a HUGE market for these, but they would fall in to the high end of custom phones. For the developer/hobbyist (xda) market you would need a lower starting price, with reasonably priced add-ons. Over $1,000 for a BASIC custom wouldn't work very well. Consider anyone could purchase a dragonboard (qualcomm, snapdragon S4) fully assembled with housing and get access to some basic binaries or source code, for $1,000. Those are developer units.
I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas, I'm actually very interested in this. The biggest hurdle is sourcing the right parts for the right price and targeting the right audience. If those details can be worked out, then it's only a matter of writing up a good business plan, securing investors, and outsourcing much of the basic work for the cheapest price.
I have some additional ideas and a few resources. If your interested and truly serious, pm me and we can talk in greater detail.
-SLS-
I've been looking along one of these lines too - the cheaper custom phones. I've done some research and found that many Chinese manufacturers and some Indian manufacturers use a system where one company provides/facilitates mostly everything in software and hardware which both can be customized within certain limits.
Companies in China using this model has been able to release phones from their home office/workshop with <10 members as family businesses. This business model has been quite successful in developing nations with some of these companies (Micromax/Karbonn) overtaking bigger vendors like LG/Motorola in India. Qualcomm has a program like this I heard is quite popular among these Chinese & Indian manufacturers: https://qrd.qualcomm.com/ I think Mediatek and Spreadtrum also have such programs. You might want to try this to see how much it can help in your model.
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
Nick14 said:
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Very helpful!
I planned to make the cases here. Probably offer 3d printed and polycarbonate options if 3d printing can get me decent cases at a decent rate. I feel like I could give out a few 3d printed cases for free since the big cost is really the printer.
The basic idea would basically be the chinese phones, but it would be local is the US, offering full support and service, plus I would have deals with google so nothing would be shady or questionable like it is with getting the chines devices. Plus everything would be fully open and supported for developers. If you did a crazy hardware mod and messed something up, we would still try and help you out. I really dislike the closed mindset of current companies
Thank you for the help though, very good information. I think at some point it would be nice to poll for what people want from a phone too.
Sent from my KFOT using xda app-developers app
I'd be interested in working with you on the hardware and software. I'm going into computer science later on this year, and I already have experience working with Allwinner chips, as well as some smaller ARM stuff. Shoot me a PM and we can talk.
reply
The very early Smartwatch
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much things like this that we would love to look into once we got a truly custom phone department up. Eventually we would like to incorporate the best ideas into non-custom but still high end phones. SouL Shadow gave you above the best answer to if we can or will do it, and probably not until we had a cashflow going and more people to develop things like that for the custom phones. It's ideas like this though that never get made or done because no one cares to do it but I feel like certain types of people would pay good money to have us build them their ideas with them, plus it will be unique to you, and who else can say they designed their own phone?
SouL Shadow said:
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
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I agree with this statement
Hello, i just wanted bring all of you together to read this thread. Ok so i know since you've been a Moto owner, you've heard or seen at least once insulting comment about your device or the Motorola company. For example, "Anything that Motorola makes sucks" "People only get them because they're cheap" "That phone is crappy". I know that those people are ignorant to other people's liking. I'm tired of hearing the same thing. A lot of people that own super expensive high end- flashy smartphones say things like that about devices like the Moto series. Well that really offends me, just because they might not be the most high-end smartphones or the most expensive smartphones doesn't mean they are worthless. We Moto owners take great pride in our device, we appreciate what we have and we value our smartphones.
If someone offered me a brand new Galaxy S6 and a brand new Moto X and said i could only pick one. I would pick the Moto X hands down without a doubt in my mind. Because I know, We know what matters in a smartphone. What is that? User experience and performance for the price. That's what a review comes down to at the end of the day. A company could make a super spec'd out smartphone but get the same review score as a phone a fraction of its cost. I know if i were to buy a $1000 smartphone it better be great in every aspect and i know if i bought a smartphone for half that price, i'm not expecting it to be perfect but i want to have a good performance. That's exactly what motorola does, it gives you a great performing phone for the price.
For example, the Moto G. It has a low price point but does everything you need it to do. If I want a super powerful gaming machine of a smartphone, I'm not going to buy the Moto G. Then give a bad review for not being able to do what i wanted it to. I'm gonna buy a smartphone with a powerful chipset. At the end of the day we Moto owners stand out. Other people don't seem to understand our taste in smartphones value. Im not saying if you own a super expensive phone you're a bad person or anything. I'm just saying you get what you pay for. All of you Moto owners, good job in picking a smartphone. It doesn't matter if you have a Moto E, a Moto G or a Moto X. We all are equal and unified. #Teammoto
Proof that price doesn't matter
Moto has shunned a lot of former owners myself included l...while I love this phone Moto can still lick my berries.
Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
It cost me over $1000 to get a MotoMaker Moto X into my country.
Worth every cent!
Beautiful design, Better features and Better performance than all my friends IPhones and Shamsungs.
Agreed !
Most people I talk to in my cell phone repair shop are ignorant to Motorola smartphones. They see my phone and ask what it is. Then they say that it looks nice.
Let those say whatever they want to because they are not aware of the fact that Motorola is the one who created mobile industry, rest are just parts of this industry. Real innovator is Motorola, rest just follow up whatever is left out by Motorola. Even today no other phone can beat a MotoX in terms of 'smartness', rest just feel dumb phones in front of a Moto X.
Motorola users don't need to frequently change their devices because they are more durable, can keep going for few generations of OS versions, come at cheaper price point. A 2-3 years Moto can easily keep going till the next Moto replaces it. You hardly see other brand's phones over 2 years old in anyone's hands. Others just fight needless specs war whereas specs is not everything. so called small battery and poor camera of my MotoX never miss the chance of surprising me by their performance, thats engineering, not just putting useless counts of cores or big spec battery or a high pixel density display which unnecessarily eats up the additional CPU power or battery.
Offcourse there are flaws in the Moto devices also but others are much more flawed. I am currently fighting a consumer court case against poor after sales service provided by Motorola when they took forever to repair a defective MotoE under warranty but that bad incident isn't enough to reduce my love and respect towards the Motorola brand.
Their strong comeback in the market after going completely dead is one more reason to buy their devices because it motivates to wake up and fight in the life, doesn't matter whatever trouble life throws on us. :good:
Let the ignorant people go gaga over whatever they want to, it doesn't changes the reality, does it?
the sad thing is that we are on a new level of "low" on the Dev part of our community.. only a few roms and most of them 5.0.x, only one custom kernel and only for CM based roms.. id love to have a custom kernel on my stock but rooted to be able to play with synapse to tamper with settings to "beast-out" ok gaming and more out of battery for everyday use..
about the talk.. heh I've been experiencing these kind of things at work when they see me use the my phone.. waving my hand over it to check my notifications.. they are so jealous [emoji13]
Motorola is still a great manufacturer, designer, innovater of awesome phones! The X series are the living proofs of this! Many users hate the company now because motorola promised them faster updates and has been really slow and non transparent in terms of updates!
I think motorola has done a great job in terms of updates and phones in general! Leaving the S6 which had 5.0 out of the box, no other manufacturer has provided 5.1 update to any of their phones yet other than the nexus line! People would never understand that 5.0 to 5.0.2 were buggy! They just want an update so they could think less of it and start complaining about the next version of android not being given to them in time! I say such people should buy nexus phones to get timely updates and stop the ranting!
For other people who have a higher price higher spec phones dont know much about android. They just buy a high spec phone thinking its future proof and later understand that there are many more newer innovations at a lesser price. Such people always keep wasting money in those high specs! Motorola doesn't provide high specs. But it provides the perfect balance of specs and working and useful features in their phones which are more useful in daily use and thus it makes the phones a daily driver.
The only problem with their phone is the fragile screen. Its glass and glass tends to break when it takes a hit. But the cost to replace it is too much! In India we need to pay 75% of the purchase cost to get the screen replaced! That's what is keeping people from buying motorola!
I love Stock Android on the Moto X 2014 ?
I miss the development of roms
That is because the source is still stuck back at 5.0.2. It would be great if we could get more up to date source.
I got my s3 when it was a flagship device and had a Samsung phone earlier. The primary reason I got the moto X was the price due to the cyber Monday sale. I saved up anticipating that the nexus 6 would be around the same price as the 5 but it turned out to be very expensive for me.
I had a few apprehensions before getting this device as I had never owned a moto device, but the X has exceeded my expectations! For the price, I don't think any other phone offers similar build quality and specs. Sure a bigger battery or a SD card slot would have been sweet but I feel that this is the perfect blend of stock plus nifty Moto features. I'm so used to active display now that I don't think I can actually use a device without it!
As far as updates are concerned, I'd rather have a fully functional 5.1 build rather than a messed up quickly released and buggy one. The delay has been a little annoying with multiple soak tests but if it results in a near bug free build then I'd rather wait!
All in all very satisfied with the phone.
#teammoto
Sent from my XT1095 using XDA Free mobile app
Vote and post your comments on your beloved MI A1.
I should've bought RN4.
not regret because i have a feeling custom ROMS will fix all the issues we have. it's gonna be huge....
There are quite some problems with the phone but I guess custom ROM can somehow sort it out. For the price : performance ratio, it can't go wrong.
No. It will be very well supported by custom ROMs in the future I am sure, just like my old Moto G 2015 is one of the most popular devices running LineageOS. The price to performance is great as @soralz said despite Xiaomi taking their time on Oreo.
Neh. None at all.
It's the best budget phone that I can buy on my country, the camera is not at a flagship level but I don't take many photos and the rest is ok also the battery is enough for a complete day.
Off-toppic: @jglass071 I also have a Moto G 2015 running LOS 14.1
There are higher specification and lower price Chinese handsets available. Lets not pretend we all got a bargain. The dual camera is trash. The reason (most of us) bought this phone was for buttery smooth Android with first in line updates. This has turned out not to be the case.
So from my point of view I do regret buying the phone, as I could have had better spec Chinese phone (specifically battery) and flashed a custom ROM. Please lets not be childish and start asking me to list them. We can all use GSM arena compare tool.
Higher spec & lower price than Xiaomi mi a1 ... what a joke. The reason you chose it bcoz it's the cheapest budget phone with a good spec and much reliable Chinese brand.
Seriously ppl just dun understand you get what you've paid for. From what I see so far, ppl who ***** about this phone couldn't afford other than this. Pathetic ...
Sorry but you must have misread my previous post.
I stated I bought the phone for the Android One software. The hardware doesn't particularly bother me although it would have been nice to have a decent camera and a bigger battery.
For the price this early 2016 chip does the job and the phone should be good for another 6-12 months with only 4gb of onboard RAM.
Certainly a solid choice in this spending bracket.
Sorry you got so hot tempered with me about the phone, I guess you really love your MiA1 which I respect.
Maybe a quick browse on GSM Arena using compare tool? Always good to see what's out there. Of course, these options would be without the 'Android One' software.
Lol ... who doesn't know about GSMArena, I said that as I know you're unable to state out the phone higher spec and cheaper than xiaomi mi a1.
I'm happy for what I've paid for, it does what I've required and I'm sure there are room for it to improve. Unlike you guys being cheapskate, spent a little money and expect xiaomi to give premium supports. Late updates ended up like crying babies.
Some goes there are lotsa bloatwares and spywares ... for christ sake, you reckon Google, Microsoft, Apple doesn't gather users' information? Stop daydreaming there ...
It's a shame you have become so bitter about your failed investment.
Maybe learn to research the market more next time rather than take your frustrations out on others.
The biggest regret I have is buying it all full price, 2 weeks before the price dropped. No other regrets.
Name one phone with "higher specification and lower price" I bet you can't.
You're another non post reader. Look on GSM arena I'm not here to do your homework boy. Out of pity, I'll start you off with the Xiaomi MiMax2.
Lol max 2 is certainly neither higher specs Nor cheaper than a1.
Unfortunately you are badly wrong again. Mi max 2 is available for 'equi price' of MiA1 and with larger screen and battery.
Many thanks.
As I said, you may want to investigate GSM arena 'compare tool'.
Not at all.
Pure bloat-free android = bliss
No regrets! Good phone for the money.!
There are always some kids crying over delayed updates and "spyware", "bloatware",...
But really, who cares.
I'm satisfied with my A1!
That's great.
As long as you don't have expectations for Android One experience.
Yes, yes, it's possible to love a phone. Heck, you sleep next to it, don't you? Rate this thread to indicate your love for the Nokia 7 Plus, all things considered. A higher rating indicates that the Nokia 7 Plus is an incredible phone that you enjoy tremendously. You love it.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
This is a great phone, love it:good:
Well if HMD isn't going to show North America any consideration, i think i might just import this phone - even with no LTE support.
The last time i imported a phone unreleased in the US was the Nokia N80 and it was one of my favourite phones to date.
I do hope they're going to provide a possibility to unlock the bootloader. But i bought it anyway because it seemed just to good for it's price.
And so far i love it!
It looks so damn sexy, feels great and performs very well.
I only have it for a small week now but i really love it.
Performs well in games also without heating up and so far the camera is very good as well.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nokia 7 plus met Tapatalk
matthewkuhl said:
Well if HMD isn't going to show North America any consideration, i think i might just import this phone - even with no LTE support.
The last time i imported a phone unreleased in the US was the Nokia N80 and it was one of my favourite phones to date.
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You can get the Chinese variant because it has band 4 LTE according to gsmarena and you will get LTE in NA.
With no Google services? No thanks
---------- Post added at 04:25 ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 ----------
Jktfong said:
You can get the Chinese variant because it has band 4 LTE according to gsmarena and you will get LTE in NA.
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Click to collapse
With no Google services? No thanks.
Pollie81 said:
I do hope they're going to provide a possibility to unlock the bootloader. But i bought it anyway because it seemed just to good for it's price.
And so far i love it!
It looks so damn sexy, feels great and performs very well.
I only have it for a small week now but i really love it.
Performs well in games also without heating up and so far the camera is very good as well.
Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nokia 7 plus met Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Can u post some sample Portrait shots taken with Human subject?
Also did u try the official way to unlock bootloader? Since its an Android One device?
matthewkuhl said:
Well if HMD isn't going to show North America any consideration, i think i might just import this phone - even with no LTE support.
The last time i imported a phone unreleased in the US was the Nokia N80 and it was one of my favourite phones to date.
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Click to collapse
U can alway import from country where it is going to launch soon.I think India is closest within 2 weeks on 22 april ie 10 days from now on. Pre-order are going on in germany too. Ucan try there as well
DgnrtnX said:
U can alway import from country where it is going to launch soon.I think India is closest within 2 weeks on 22 april ie 10 days from now on. Pre-order are going on in germany too. Ucan try there as well
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What still in preorders? We have the phone here available since maybe 3 weeks.
DgnrtnX said:
U can alway import from country where it is going to launch soon.I think India is closest within 2 weeks on 22 april ie 10 days from now on. Pre-order are going on in germany too. Ucan try there as well
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Click to collapse
Perhaps you missed that LTE support was the ideal scenario.
As a last resort, i would import from Europe - but the global ROM on a Chinese variant is a far more enticing prospect for at least ONE North American LTE band.
A mini-review.
A mini-review from a Nokia fan!
Cheers:highfive:
Bought this phone, and returned it. Absence of notification LED is an absurd omission.
Imaginos.88 said:
Bought this phone, and returned it. Absence of notification LED is an absurd omission.
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That's my only gripe with the phone(and the bootloader unlock uncertainty) but that can be address with some apps, future updates to the ambient display functionality or just a minor adjustment from our part.
I wasn't sure I could live without the led and even tried some apps but the reality is, after one week, I did not miss any more notifications that I was already missing with my last phone. For now this is the phone I've should have bought after leaving the Nexus 5. But hey, lesson learned, I'm not buying another Xiaomi, that's for sure...
I bought black/copper version yesterday and man I'm loving this phone. Coming from OnePlus 3T. I kinda wished that notification light, but I have allready forgotten "need" for that. Yes. it's convinient to have it, but lifting phone to check notifications is quick. Or you can double tap screen to wake screen and see whole notifications.
I think there could be place to optimize os a bit further. There are minor lags and hungups here and there. I know that we are dealing with S660, but I feel like these could be addressed by optimizing os.
I feel sort of nostalgic to have Nokia phone again after so many years. Last Nokia phone was 5800 XpressMusic and man that phone sucked quite many way.
Beautiful phone. Got this from 2 days ago and I am surprised.
I don't need notification led .
I love battery capacity and Android One
The phone is very smooth and 8.1 response very fast with SD660.
The only minus is volte and vowifi for my carrier.
jv.batista said:
That's my only gripe with the phone(and the bootloader unlock uncertainty) but that can be address with some apps, future updates to the ambient display functionality or just a minor adjustment from our part.
I wasn't sure I could live without the led and even tried some apps but the reality is, after one week, I did not miss any more notifications that I was already missing with my last phone. For now this is the phone I've should have bought after leaving the Nexus 5. But hey, lesson learned, I'm not buying another Xiaomi, that's for sure...
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I just can't live without it. I don't know how many times a day I glance the phone, especially from a distance.
I don't understand the logic behind not having a notification LED.
Imaginos.88 said:
I just can't live without it. I don't know how many times a day I glance the phone, especially from a distance.
I don't understand the logic behind not having a notification LED.
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C'mon mate in these days all the people around the world are checking their phones regularly.It's became already a bad habit.
In my point of view the notification led is history...
Quite a nice phone. I'm still unsure whether I'm going to return it or not, but for now I'm keen on keeping it.
I was looking for a replacement for my [too heavily modded and slowly killed of - sorry mate...] Xiaomi Mi5 in the 400 euro price range, and I think I actually found it.
Feels great in the hand, weight and everything, the big screen is really nice, the camera is pretty good, the audio is good enough for my ears, with 2.5h+ sot and two configurations with lots of backed up data/one factory reset + 8.1 update while still having 60% battery is really nice (all the while being on data) and the stock Android is just perfect for me, would not want more. My only gripes would be the slight hangs in scrolling speed, when it tries up to lazy load the next scrolling page (the mi5 was not as obvious as the nokia when it tried to do this), the slight lag when opening the recents tab and the slight delay when unlocking with the fingerprint reader, but I suppose this is something I can go by with.
Why did I go for the Nokia when I could've go for last year's flagships? I honestly wanted a newer chipset, stock Android (without any flashing in between) at an affordable price, and I think this hits the marks.
I feel depressed af. After using a device with the worst community ever(it did not even have a dedicated XDA forum) I bought this, now with release of Moto g6 series and Nokia x6 I feel angry and depressed at the same time. What the **** is wrong with Nokia why the **** would they release x6 when they already have the 7 plus. The x6 has better specs, better designfor a lesser price. But the thing that really makes me angry is that there is no distinctive feature about this phone. To top that there are so less accessories for this phone and the ones available are not even good. There are no skins available for this phone either and even if they will be available all the copper on the phone will make the phone look ridiculous. Now the x6 is released for lesser price and by the number of people who bought it or pre ordered it, it looks like it will have a better accessories.l, and the glass back also looks better than the 7 plus. You may say the 7 plus is an Android one phone but Nokia releases different updates to different regions where some regions have certain features and some not. To sum it up the phone is good but with no option to unlock bootloader and no market for accessories it sucks.
KraCkaVeli33 said:
I feel depressed af. After using a device with the worst community ever(it did not even have a dedicated XDA forum) I bought this, now with release of Moto g6 series and Nokia x6 I feel angry and depressed at the same time. What the **** is wrong with Nokia why the **** would they release x6 when they already have the 7 plus. The x6 has better specs, better designfor a lesser price. But the thing that really makes me angry is that there is no distinctive feature about this phone. To top that there are so less accessories for this phone and the ones available are not even good. There are no skins available for this phone either and even if they will be available all the copper on the phone will make the phone look ridiculous. Now the x6 is released for lesser price and by the number of people who bought it or pre ordered it, it looks like it will have a better accessories.l, and the glass back also looks better than the 7 plus. You may say the 7 plus is an Android one phone but Nokia releases different updates to different regions where some regions have certain features and some not. To sum it up the phone is good but with no option to unlock bootloader and no market for accessories it sucks.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure where you are heading.
The X6 has worse chipset, worse camera specs, having glass back is not a plus in my book (breaks easily). I've been able to find alle covers etc on aliexpress/ebay for my 7+ needs.
But it's a shame with the lack up updates for some people, big bummer by Nokia there, they should release updates worldwide for everybody at same time. And locked bootloader etc is a shame too. But overall I'm very happy with the phone.