Related
Dunno if you guys have seen this. I didn't notice because I usually only hang around here but it just got posted to reddit so I saw it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
If true, it would definitely explain a lot of things. It does make me dislike Samsung, but hopefully the carriers can strong-arm Samsung into doing what everyone else is doing.
Personally, I bought this phone because it was either this or the Droid X, and the difference was that while the DX might have Froyo now, the odds of Motorola putting Gingerbread on it are less than 100%, and the odds of it getting anything after that are even lower, and with the locked bootloader you can't do anything about it. With the Fascinate, at least we can look forward to community built ROMs for some time into the future, definitely past what Samsung is willing to do (I figure they're never going to even consider putting Gingerbread on the Fascinate what with the LTE phones coming out soon, and SAMOLED+ and all that). People should probably avoid Samsung unless they specifically want the nice hardware and easy hacking, in which case it seems like Samsung is the most lax with security so they're the best choice for hacking.
Hmm, very enlightening, of it's true of course. Sounds entirely plausible though. Oh well, I really don't care anymore, not with kaos and friends on the job.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
This is what we all expected.
But the question is... Why was it released with Eclair when Froyo was released before this phone was released.
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
They arent building a new ril. They are hacking android around the current crap ril Samsung gave us.
Don't buy it.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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That's what jt's been doing, and he ended up just hacking the current Samsung RIL to work. And if you follow his twitter, he said that the RIL from Eclair, Froyo, and Gingerbread on the Android side didn't change much which is why they're jumping straight to Gingerbread instead of wasting time with Eclair.
upsidedownaaron said:
wasn't the reason it was released with eclair because of the 1.6 ril or whatever? from what i read, the ril would barely work with eclair and no way for it to work with froyo.
my understanding is that a large part of the magic that kaos is doing was to build a functional ril.
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Click to collapse
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
Secondly, the reason that we (not Samsung) could not build a ROM not based on the stock OEM ROM was because the source code for the RIL that Samsung provided for the Fascinate was bad code, which made it extremely difficult to create a working RIL what will work with a custom OS. However, jt1134 and punk.kaos were able to reverse engineer the bad code into working code, in order to proceed with ROM building.
This has nothing to do with Samsung themselves though. Samsung built the RIL to begin with, so they most certainly can (and have) created RIL code that works with Froyo, quite a long time ago in fact. They released the Galaxy S line with Eclair because that was likely the newest version available when they began developing the OS for those phones. In order to convert the OS to Froyo to launch it on the phone, they would have had to significantly delay the launch, which was not an option. This is likely why so many phones are released with outdated versions of Android. And I would like to point out that if they just put Google's code on there and didn't insist in polluting it with their own proprietary junk, it wouldn't take so long to release in the first place, and wouldn't be so difficult to upgrade later.
Getting back on topic, I figured that the problem with getting these updates really all comes down to money. People have always had to pay for OS upgrades for PCs, but due to Android and iOS, have now come to expect to receive these updates for free. The problem is, somebody has to develop an upgrade process, and test the heck out of it, and those developers have to get paid. So the OEM pays them, and then naturally tries to pass the cost along to the carrier, because they don't want to work for free. The carrier also doesn't want to pay for the upgrade, but also knows they can't get away with charging their customers for it without significant backlash, so they basically just sit there and hope the problem eventually goes away, or that the OEM will finally back down and release the update for free, which is what's been described as our current situation.
If this is really such a big problem, they could be taking steps to not end up in this situation, such as figuring the cost of these upgrades into the price of the phones and/or rate plans. However, the carriers also have added incentive to not push for the upgrades, because that effectively extends the life of the handset, and they want you to keep buying new hardware all the time, since they make money from selling hardware, and lose money on the free upgrades.
In the end, it's all about money. Thankfully we have such a great community of developers here on XDA that are willing to go the extra mile to not only get us our upgrades, but also add cool features and boost the performance way beyond what the manufacturer gave us. Thanks to that, our hardware's lifetime is determined not by when a carrier or OEM pulls support, but rather by when the devices physically die or break, or the hardware becomes too outdated for the tasks we wish to perform. And this way, through donations, we can pay our developers for good upgrades, not our carrier for crappy, bloated ones.
Im not saying its true but the most legitimate explanation for all this bull**** I have actually heard in a while. So for what its worth Im not going to shoot that down. Possibly true at this point.
Sent from my fascination station using XDA App
ivorycruncher said:
Um, wow, what have you been reading? First off, our phone came with 2.1, not 1.6, so I'm not sure where you got that number from.
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Mrbirdman said it himself, actually. (1.5, but close enough).
http://twitter.com/#!/_mrbirdman_/status/3002051533479936
Anyway, I don't know whether to believe this but it explains why no US carriers have Froyo yet. It's kind of frustrating that Verizon is the only carrier that hasn't even had a leaked Froyo build it seems. Damn ingrates spoiling leaks for the rest of us.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the link. I admit that tweet came before I followed him on twitter, so I hadn't seen that. I can see how that would complicate matters though.
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
Sounds like it's just more trumped up bull**** designed to stir up the masses. Who knows really, but all I know is I wasn't stupid enough to purchase a phone based on future "promises."
Jake_Mongoose said:
This is the last farkin' time I ever buy a Samsung phone. Shame on me for believing their lies when they said they'd support it.
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You might wanna rethink that. Why, you ask? Because Samsung puts out some of the best hardware available, especially the screens, and we always have devs that can hack up the code to make it better than it ever would have been with a stock ROM. HTC isn't too bad, though the issue with rooting the G2 is certainly raising some eyebrows, but if you were thinking about Motorola, have fun with your locked bootloader and other fun tricks that attempt to squash community development. Aside from lousy source code, Samsung phones are the easiest to root and customize due to the unlocked bootloader. You can basically just flash anything you want with ODIN, no problem.
It is not necessarily the case in the future because Tab reportedly has locked boot loader. This said people already found workaround, but who knows?..
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
ivorycruncher said:
That is true. Nobody knows what the future holds. In any case, if you have no problem loading custom software from XDA devs on your phone, then OEM software support should not even be on the list of requirements when buying a phone. I now make my phone purchasing decisions purely based on hardware specs and quality. If it's a quality piece of hardware with the features I want, on my carrier of choice (Verizon), I will buy it, regardless of manufacturer or UI. Warranties and insurance work the same no matter who makes it, and software updates come from XDA, so nothing else really matters. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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Yup, this is how I've decided to make phone decisions from now on as well. As long as the phone's software can be replaced by XDA, I don't care too much about the manufacturer's updates.
J Shed said:
If that user is really violating an NDA, he's already fired, and the XDA admins would be hearing from lawyers demanding they remove the thread.
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It is easier to hide posting on a forum than it is sending a tip into an online news outlet, at least in general. Also, by posting it in a forum, it is entirely likely that it will be up for longer than it would be if posted at say, Engadget, because it takes longer for news to show up in major outlets if posted in a forum first as opposed to a news site. If it were posted at Engadget or another tech blog, they are likely watched over very closely for potential NDA breaches, etc. I doubt Samsung looks are random forums/subforums/threads nearly as close.
IF it were $$ couldn't we as users pay like $20 for Froyo...
x 3 million phones = more than enough to pay for DEV
I don't buy it.
Why?
Because these companies work off of contracts. Verizon would know exactly what they were getting into before signing. If Samsung decides to breach said contract, fine, let Verizon sue the hell out of them. Lastly, Verizon would not have sold or marketed docks that rely on 2.2, if they had no intention of releasing it.
Actually one more thing. If US Carriers were refusing, Samsung would halt development. We are seeing new leaks for the other US models all the time, and Verizon is still being worked on (but not leaked).
This is a case of where 2+2=5=false.
I have an AT&T branded Focus. I am disgusted at how AT&T has been blocking the pre-NoDo update. I don't particularly want to have this crap at every update.
Are any devs working on a any way of flashing a generic rom & getting rid of the AT&T branding?
I hope we can find a way of getting out from under the carrier's thumbs....
SR
No one is working on anything like that. You can check the Focus Windows Phone 7 Development, and its empty.
any working link?
blade725 said:
any working link?
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no and there won't be any.
I personally have no clue about where do these ROMs come from, but I'm wondering just why no one is working on the Focus?
Is it really that difficult to crack open, considering that Omnia 7 which is mostly the same has seen a number of ROMs by now.
sydneyrodgers said:
I have an AT&T branded Focus. I am disgusted at how AT&T has been blocking the pre-NoDo update. I don't particularly want to have this crap at every update.
Are any devs working on a any way of flashing a generic rom & getting rid of the AT&T branding?
I hope we can find a way of getting out from under the carrier's thumbs....
SR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a bit confused:
1. Why do you want the pre-NoDo update so badly? It doesn't add function you can feel or see. I would be upset if AT&T blocked a major functional update, but I can forgive AT&T on this one.
2. AT&T branding? Really? You can uninstall all AT&T apps, and the focus is as vanilla as they come.
I had other AT&T-branded smartphone devices (the latest being Samsung Captivate), and it's much worse on the Android side: (1) can't uninstall any of the AT&T Crapware, and (2) SW updates came VERY slowly. Only after Android 2.3 Gingerbread (Nexus S) was was out, we got our 2.2 Froyo updates.
It's a good thing Android is open-source and we had custom ROMs to address these problems though.
Right now I don't recommend the Samsung Focus to anyone. This is the only WP7 that do not have any support at all. The only good thing it have is that it is a good looking phone with SAmoled Screen, nothing more. I really regret the day I bough this Crap phone. My next phone will be HTC. HTC owners don't have the same problems Samsung Focus owners are getting. I really don't recommend to experiment with this phone if you don't know what you are doing. You will end with a brick. Also this phone come loaded with a lot of ATT crapware that cannot be removed.
ASPTHEONE said:
Right now I don't recommend the Samsung Focus to anyone. This is the only WP7 that do not have any support at all. The only good thing it have is that it is a good looking phone with SAmoled Screen, nothing more. I really regret the day I bough this Crap phone. My next phone will be HTC. HTC owners don't have the same problems Samsung Focus owners are getting. I really don't recommend to experiment with this phone if you don't know what you are doing. You will end with a brick. Also this phone come loaded with a lot of ATT crapware that cannot be removed.
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@ASPTHEONE, did you not read the post above yours? You can remove the ATT apps. I have gotten rid of all of mine.
boot screen is still there.
Plus when you 'uninstall' an app, it just hides the shortcut, the files are still there.
The major issue with Samsung Focus is that it has a lot of issues that can be traced back to the crappy ROM/Firmware and since there aren't any ROMs available online (not even stock AT&T ROMs), people like me who own a Focus and aren't in the US are screwed.
Yea im from Australia and its not the best
Vico100 said:
boot screen is still there.
Plus when you 'uninstall' an app, it just hides the shortcut, the files are still there.
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Click to collapse
How often do you stare at the boot screen? Having had the Focus for only a few days, I don't know the ins and outs of the WP7, but it doesn't bother me that the AT&T Crapware isn't uninstalled physically. Are you that desperate to recoup that space? It can't be more than a few MB/app, but I'd be happy to stand corrected if a bigger chunk of FS space can be reclaimed.
By the way, if you hate the AT&T/Samsung so much, I am a little confused as to why you bought the phone, especially when it's intended for the US market, not the Australian.
UzEE said:
The major issue with Samsung Focus is that it has a lot of issues that can be traced back to the crappy ROM/Firmware and since there aren't any ROMs available online (not even stock AT&T ROMs), people like me who own a Focus and aren't in the US are screwed.
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I sympathize with you, but I don't know how you attribute the issues to the crappy ROM from Samsung. For WP7, there isn't a whole lot of latitude in terms of what an OEM can do to a WP7 ROM. It's tightly controlled by Microsoft.
Also, if you bought a phone from another market (i.e. the Focus is for only AT&T), you assumed that risk and knew what you were getting into. Neither Samsung nor AT&T has any obligation to enable the customer to reflash the phone.
I work in the telecom industry and every OEM is nervous about the end user flashing the phones. They get penalized financially for each device that gets returned to AT&T, and the vast majority of the returns are from an incorrect flashing procedure and/or unapproved ROMs. You can't blame the OEM, MS or AT&T for making it difficult for the end users to flash unapproved ("custom") ROMs.
Enigma00 We need people who can really say something useful. You are acting like if you where the police. He bought the phone because he like it and is not available on his country. AT&T loads the phones with crap-ware everybody knows that. Look the Android phones like the Captivate is fully loaded with the AT&T Crapware and the Windows Phones are not exception. I think you work for AT&T. Get use to people returning the phones because the AT&T crapware make them to try another ROM.
enigma00 said:
I sympathize with you, but I don't know how you attribute the issues to the crappy ROM from Samsung. For WP7, there isn't a whole lot of latitude in terms of what an OEM can do to a WP7 ROM. It's tightly controlled by Microsoft.
Also, if you bought a phone from another market (i.e. the Focus is for only AT&T), you assumed that risk and knew what you were getting into. Neither Samsung nor AT&T has any obligation to enable the customer to reflash the phone.
I work in the telecom industry and every OEM is nervous about the end user flashing the phones. They get penalized financially for each device that gets returned to AT&T, and the vast majority of the returns are from an incorrect flashing procedure and/or unapproved ROMs. You can't blame the OEM, MS or AT&T for making it difficult for the end users to flash unapproved ("custom") ROMs.
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Click to collapse
Samsung Focus is an exception. It is the only phone which supports MicroSD cards so it manages available memory differently. And most of the issues Focus owners are having are because of that. Even though I didn't ever insert a memory card into the Focus, it crashed while I was installing an app and never recovered.
I did know there was a risk getting a foreign phone and I obviously don't expect AT&T or Samsung to just hand over the ROMs. That's why I came to XDA in the first place. Seeking help from the community.
UzEE said:
I personally have no clue about where do these ROMs come from, but I'm wondering just why no one is working on the Focus?
Is it really that difficult to crack open, considering that Omnia 7 which is mostly the same has seen a number of ROMs by now.
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Click to collapse
It's probably not that difficult but who is going to spend any time on a phone that doesn't do much out of the box, has a small user base that isn't going to get any larger and runs a system that Microsoft threatens to either change or grind into the dirt (which may be the same thing) any moment? Obviously the answer is "no one" or there would be something available. Personally, I see Microsoft's total inaction as pretty much rendering the Focus obsolete. It's a shame, it's decent hardware, but the system and software support are abysmal. Worse than Windows Mobile, even, and I didn't think that was possble.
ASPTHEONE said:
Right now I don't recommend the Samsung Focus to anyone. This is the only WP7 that do not have any support at all. The only good thing it have is that it is a good looking phone with SAmoled Screen, nothing more. I really regret the day I bough this Crap phone. My next phone will be HTC. HTC owners don't have the same problems Samsung Focus owners are getting. I really don't recommend to experiment with this phone if you don't know what you are doing. You will end with a brick. Also this phone come loaded with a lot of ATT crapware that cannot be removed.
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Click to collapse
You mean HTC phones ARE getting support? I totally gave up on WP7, I have no intention of ever buying another Microsoft mobile device and haven't bothered checking any of the other phone forums so I really don't know what kind of support they get from here, HTC or anyone else. I assumed they were as screwed as Focus owners are.
FWIW, I wouldn't worry to much about being asked about the Focus. I've tried to give mine away at the office and among friends and it's still sitting on my desk, collecting dust. My guess is it'll be in the local landfill in a few more days just because I'm tired of looking at it and being reminded that I actually paid full price for this literally worthless piece of ****.
@ markgamber
I totally understand your frustration with WP7, but find it hard to believe you can't give it away. Bit of a exaggeration I suspect because who would turn down a free phone. If someone offered me a Focus for free what do I have to lose, since I paid nothing for it MS can take as long as they want to update it.
Throwing it away after you've paid for it what's the point? Sure it will give you a few minutes of satisfaction but you will still be out the cash. When NoDo does come out & then Mango who knows you may fall in love with the phone again. I wouldn't buy the phone again or recommend it to anyone, but you already have it so what's done is done.
markgamber said:
I've tried to give mine away at the office and among friends and it's still sitting on my desk, collecting dust. My guess is it'll be in the local landfill in a few more days just because I'm tired of looking at it and being reminded that I actually paid full price for this literally worthless piece of...
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Click to collapse
Well I have several HTC Tornado WM 6.x phones, docs, chargers and accessories that I will trade you straight across for your Focus. I am not going back. I will even ship an envelope with return postage.
enigma00 said:
My guess is it'll be in the local landfill in a few more days just because I'm tired of looking at it and being reminded that I actually paid full price for this literally worthless piece of ****.
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Click to collapse
I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands, if you really want to part with it
At last HTC WP7 owners are getting a lot better support for their phones than Sammy Focus Phones. They got Custom Roms, and the updates of the OS works. On the Sammy Phones not even the Officials Updates Works. I regret the day I was blinded by the beautiful Super Amoled of the Focus!!
My point was somewhat lost in the discussion. According to Rafael Rivera, the wp7 guru who tracked down the data leak problem, an unbranded phone will receive updates from MS when they are released. Phones branded by a carrier will receive the pre-update when the carrier allows it. That is why Rogers Focuses received the pre-update & ATT Focuses did not. I would like to flash a non-branded firmware into my Focus & get future updates when MS releases them & not when ATT feels like it.
I was wondering if there was any way of tracking down an unbranded Focus rom & flashing my phone.
SR
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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See above for my response to this!
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.
roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.
kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
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Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.
knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.
Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.
elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?
So I don't know about you guys, but I am tired of waiting for ICS. Even more so I am tired of there being not a word spoken about the progress of the update from Google, Sprint, or Samsung. Being that I am still paying the phones subsidized price to Sprint with my monthly payments, I have taken my complaints to their official forum.
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless/phones-and-devices/samsung/nexus_s_
I encourage all of you that are tired of the silence of these companies to please join me on Sprints forums and voice your complaints. Maybe if enough of us speak up someone will realize it is better to have transparency even when things go wrong.
*I know some of you will say quit complaining and flash a rom. I know what my options are, but that does not excuse these companies for treating us the way that they are. Sprint should not be advertising the Nexus S 4G as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible"*
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pestering Google would be the more direct approach for sure. But they already got their money for these phones. Sprint on the other hand I am still paying and will continue to pay (if I don't move to another carrier). So Sprint seems to be the more logical source to complain to and maybe if enough people pester them, they will in turn force Google to be more transparent. Because as is, it looks like Google could give a ****.
Ah alright, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for the response
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
kyouko said:
I've been wondering this for a while.. when the ota update comes out, do you (as in everyone who's waiting for it) plan on using it?
Drop w/e custom ics rom you might have with performance tweaks, themes, status bar toggles, settings you'd never get in a stock rom, etc. etc.?
"treating us the way that they are"? Maybe you've forgotten that Google pulled the first ics update because of issues, and they already have 4.0.5 planned, ics is obviously having issues.
Don't get me wrong, i can definitely understand the frustration with no news about anything at all. I can see your reasoning for complaining to Sprint about that.
i dunno, I'm just curious as to why everyone is freaking out over it. imo they should be pestering Google to release the 4.0.4 source for us to fix some things in our roms, instead of bothering the carrier
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I would never give up my mods & tweaks, etc....but I would love to have a stock rom with all those tweaks, mods, themes, kernels, etc. added on to it. IMHO, stock roms are almost always stable beasts! Honestly, at this point, I am doubting whether or not sprint even cares enough to let us know what's going on with the update. We're now over 2 months since the first official ota was pushed to nexus s and the devs here have already beaten the bloody hell out of sprint in releasing working roms, with brand new radios, bootloaders, and all. Granted, the bootloader & radio were ripped from a leaked rom, but still....we've got over a dozen working roms before the people who have full access to schematics, closed source code, etc. could even get one out.....and that's just plain sad!!
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
patokeefe said:
Has anyone gotten this OTA yet? I can't even find one person that has. It's making me think that it was a false leak, maybe that's already well known though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm.. Its called a leak because it was err.. leaked... It was an OTA update that wasn't released yet and still hasn't been. Doesn't make it a false leak, just means they still aren't ready to release it.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
KID ANDROID said:
Is he possibly talking about the leaked release date of the ota ics update, the one of the screenshot from a Sprint webpage showing Sprint saying the update will be released on February 16th???? I think he might have been asking if anyone got the ota update that this was showing. I personally think that it was a misprint and the update will be released on March 16th, as there is another leaked piece saying the NEXUS S update will be released in mid March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly.
I should clarify, the substance of the leak-the date if the alleged OTA update-was false.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
Looks like Sprint is still sytematically deleting posts of their users and paying customers on their forum.
Go here and see before it is deleted: http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/85388?start=0&tstart=0
"Nexus S 4g and ICS-where is it?
Why were these posts deleted? Why are you still trying to hide what is going on instead of answering my questions? There was nothing in these posts that was your content to delete. markie_b stated that posts that had Sprint property (screenshots) were deleted because of that, but why are these deleted?
POST 1
"@markie_b "the opportune word here is leaked which means someone is putting information out there before it is due and therefore Sprint has the right to delete any information"
Just because it was leaked does not make it any less true. There was a banner at the top of the page when Sprint employees logged into Dara and ISC. It was there for two days at least. Many different Sprint employees confirmed this as true. So deleting the screenshot and links to this image just makes it look like Sprint is trying to hide something. Which you are. Sprint messed up. Plain and simple. Maybe you guys should admit this and try to give us more information than just wait for ICS because we know nothing. We all know you and every other Sprint employee know nothing. You guys should work on changing that. Instead of hiding mistakes and staying silent on what is going on with an update, you should be proactive in letting us know every step of the process you are on in geting the update out. The source has been available for 3 months now, that is more than enough time to get the radios working. As I have said before we are all still paying Sprint for these phones. We deserve to be treated better. On a side note you should realize the Nexus is a developer phone. You are not dealing with your average Android phone users here. We will notice every single mistake you make and come looking for answers every time.
@aysdojo Why would you think it was an internal release? How many Sprint employees do you think still even own an NS4G? On top of that there is no system in place for Sprint to only push updates to Sprint employees. So how would they even accomplish an internal release?
@14knight So would you mind explaining why another post created by mattsholtz23 that asked why Sprint is advertising the Nexus S 4g as "OS updates as soon as humanly possible" were outright deleted and the member banned? There was no "leaked" information in that post. It was a simple question that was deleted instead of just being answered. It look like Sprints policy is to delete any post on here that makes them look bad. Instead of being up front and admitting when they do things wrong. A screen shot has been taken as proof of this post."
POST 2
"I must assume that you have trouble reading, as all proof needed was inside of last post. You must realize that you are asking for proof of things that do not exist, i.e. a way for Sprint to roll out releases only to employees all the while excluding every other NS4G owner on their network. This is like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause does not exist. The proof he does not exist is that no one has ever proven that he does exist. The same goes for Sprints secret employee OS upgrade system that you somehow beleive in. Like I said before, it would have been heard of by now through employee leaks, considering that the OP is about Sprint internal leaks this is something Sprint has a problem with. Also of note is that the one internal rollout you cited from Google had leaked screenshots of ICS (I guess you would have had to of read the article though) hitting Google+ and Twitter within hours of the actual rollout to employees. Further illustrating my point. I would also like to point out that I have answered your questions twice now with you still never answering my one question to you. Why do you believe this was an internal rollout? Any other post by you will be ignored as I must assume you are trolling and are hijacking the thread, considering your last 2 posts have not had a single fact in them and were all opinion, and that you never answered my one question to you. Now back to the real questions I would like to see answers to. I am still waiting Markie_B and 14Knight."
A screenshot has been taken as proof of this post, as have all my other posts."
And another one that was deleted:
"@dreamcat1138 You are correct. Not only does the NS4G have weak radio problems, but it is all Samsung devices that have signal issues. Samsung is notorious for using under powered radios inside of it's handsets. http://www.androidcentral.com/nexus-s-users-hows-your-wifi-strength http://www.androidcentral.com/are-you-having-radio-issues-your-nexus-s-4g-poll http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=34ad876196cb21c4&hl=en http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=72cde4a29b9021c3&hl=en http://forums.androidcentral.com/sp...e-wifi-radio-wifi-tethering-crashes-data.html Tweet from Engadget's Mobile editor - https://twitter.com/#!/zpower/status/15800092652998657 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1714413 http://pocketnow.com/android/samsung-epic-4g-touch-hits-radio-problems-fix-promised http://pocketnow.com/android/epic-4g-touch-signal-loss-fix-coming-soon-user-leaks-it-early http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24345 http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/21/...signal-problem-fix-coming-meter-being-changed Trust me I could go on. Basically all Samsung devices including the Nexus S 4G have horrible radios. Just look at some of the other posts in Sprints Nexus S forum. There are more than one post asking when the radios would be fixed on the NS4G, and they always have the same answer. It's in the next update. Yet with the last 3 update the NS4G recieved that were supposed to fix the radio issues, they never did. And now we are being told it will be in the ICS update. That is untrue as there is no fix for the radio ssues, it is a hardware issue, and the only fix for that is not buying a Samsung phone. Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
Here are even more that were deleted.
"Why was the screen shot and link to the image of the leak deleted? Why does Sprint feel that hiding their mess ups is gonna help? It is all over the web, we already know. Why don't you take the time to admit your mistakes and tell us what is going on, instead of deleting posts banning members and deleting pictures. Is this really Sprints stance, to hide facts and lie to it's paying customers? Every person on this Nexus board is still paying for their phones with their contracts. Why are we being treated this way? Screenshots have been taken as proof of this post."
"So you don't believe everything you read on the internet, yet you believe the rumor one guy (not a Sprint employee) posted on this forum that this was an internal rollout. As that one guy (techguy379) is the only and original source that this was an internal rollout, and looking at his other posts, he knows absolutely nothing about what Sprint is doing. Not to mention that if it was an internal rollout wouldn't the Sprint employees who leaked these screen shots have known that, as they are internal employees. I personally know for a fact that one of the screen shot leakers/posters was himself an NS4G owner, wouldn't it make sense that he would have been one of the internal testers, since he owned the phone the test was taking place on and was himself an internal employee of Sprint? The proof that Sprint or any other prvider has never done an internal rollout to test an OS on their employees is that we would have heard about it, on Twitter, Facebook, and XDA. Do you really think Sprint could control leaks from their 18 year old work force. Most companies can't even control leaks from their programers and coders. Come on. You also just proved yourself wrong, as Google is the only company that does internal rollouts of Android to test OS updates. Since they are the ones who make it. There has and never been a single reported case of a service provider (Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) ever internally testing an OS update on their work force, and that is because they don't. Really you are just making yourself look silly. I am sure Sprint can take care of defending themselves without your ill informed help."
*update* Looks like nexuss4glies was banned and most posts deleted.
Here is a full account of what is going on at Sprint's forums.
http://sprintlies.tumblr.com/
Here is a reddit link as well http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/pyaow/a_full_record_of_how_sprint_is_deleting_its_users/
Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous at this point.
These updates take time, there is a massive amount of testing that has to happen before you release an update that could potentially brick hundreds of thousands of phones in one day. When working with a wireless carrier they must also test to make sure the radio is working properly with the network as well, in a variety of environments and situations.
If any problem comes up during these tests it has to start over again, if google has decided that 4.0.5 needs to be developed before they can re-test it, it's up to them. Google has never once stated a release date for ICS on our phones, sprint had it on an internal website for employees only (which could be a fake shot), not out there for public consumption. It's likely they are testing it internally and still awaiting approval somewhere down the line.
Just calm down, or just install the leak if you are really truely that desperate. The OTA will come out in due time and you'll look back at this and wonder how you could be so unreasonable.
They are releasing it as fast as humanly possible. Humans make mistakes, bugs can sometimes regress and appear again. Humans are flawed, humans write flawed code. Would you rather have a broken update or one that's stable enough to roll out to everyone?
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
bozzykid said:
Google, Sprint, and AT&T could all handle this better with some actual communication. However, I don't think any of them are holding back ICS intentionally. They are obviously working out issues and when they feel it is ready, they will release it. I'm not sure what the original poster is trying to gain by this crusade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am trying to gain some transparency. I never stated that I thought ICS was being held back. But lets face it, there is no money in updating phones. The money is in selling them. I do believe that if more resources were put into development of updates it would result in faster updates. You would think this would be a priority for Google, at least with their flagship line of Nexus phones. Really, if this is what the "Nexus Experience" is supposed to be, then I am not on board. Second Sprint should have never sold this phone as a Nexus experience with "updates as soon as humanly possible" because the NS4G is not updated like the other GSM devices. Even Google has pulled CDMA Nexus's from it's Nexus developer page basically admitting that the update process works differently than the real (GSM) Nexus devices. I have a feeling this will all be happening again in a year when updates are needed for the Verizon and Sprint Galaxy Nexus.
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
petrochemicals said:
My main goal is to draw attention to Sprint's and Google's mistakes as this whole process couldn't have been any more messed up. The more people that start criticizing these companies when they blatantly screw up the better off we will be in the long run. Staying silent for this long is just not the right way to be treating your customers. Especially when those customers are mainly the developers (Nexus devices are developer phones) who bolstered your OS to the number one OS in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
IMHO this is a little silly. Why does it even matter at this point? Almost every single ROM that is developed or being developed is ICS. We already have it so why would we need ota?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Bauxite said:
I don't think creating a blog full of screenshots of you ranting at community managers (that have no sway or special information, or right to speak on sprint's behalf) is helping at all.
Explain what you think 'as fast as humanly possible' means in the context of a highly complex and sensitive phone software rollout. There is a lot that could go wrong and delay an update, you know the update is coming. You are not paying a monthly fee for updates to your phone, find me the line in your phone contract that says that. A line on a product's website isn't a contractually binding agreement, maybe false advertising. If you wanted to prove that however you'd need proof that google and sprint engineers weren't even working on porting the software, and we know they are.
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Yes it is false advertising. The Nexus S 4G was falsely advertised by Sprint to me and everyone else when purchasing it, as receiving "OS updates as soon as humanly possible". As for the definition I would consider it to be defined as the first time they released the OS back in December of last year. Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
Why you feel the need to protect billion dollar companies, I am not really sure. Any kind of company like these should be criticized constantly, otherwise they will walk all over us, just as they are in this situation. The bottom line is Sprint and Google have screwed up. The more attention that is drawn to that fact, the better. More transparency is needed in Sprint and Google's relationship with their customers and that is not going to be fixed by people like you that are making excuses for them.
petrochemicals said:
Google is to blame for making a shoddy OS that didn't work when it was released. If they would bother actually putting any real kind of money into the development and work force that does design these updates, then maybe it would have worked the first time they released it. But like I said before there is no money in updates, so the development of them will reflect that. Just like we have seen here.
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And you just lost the argument entirely. Android 4.0 was developed for one phone at the start, the Galaxy Nexus, they stated it would come to the Nexus S eventually. Your argument is that the software is crap because they haven't written the device drivers fast enough for you. You want them to release broken software because you are entitled to fast updates.
Apparently to you 'as fast as humanly possible' means something entirely different, where humans are perfect creatures that never make coding mistakes. And on the off chance that the code was perfect to start it still takes time to TEST, time that has paid off already because they would have released a buggy update.
You can't just hire more engineers and throw more money at something to make it go faster. You assume your monthly WIRELESS USAGE fees go towards software development for one of sprint's 20+ phones. They don't.
Get over your false entitlement, they don't owe you anything.
lol @ people getting angry over ICS not being released yet
.... clearly you didn't have an Epic 4g and have to wait from September to March of the next year for Gingerbread.... we have nothing to complain about here in the NS4g forums
Quite honestly, yes the wait sucks, but it'll be worth it to not have the same type of bugs as NS3G users on TMobile and other international carries are facing. I used OICS then went back to gingerbread in December and have been waiting until the official OTA because I know it'll be better than ANY of the roms we have yet! Yes Sprint sucks, but they're trying to protect us. Also, as aforementioned by snowmanwithahat, at least we aren't like Epic 4G users and waiting 6 months or the other countless people in 2 year contracts not even on GB. Plus, no other phone that isn't a Nexus S has gotten the OTA yet so until then I'm still happy. I will, however, be furious if any other Sprint phone gets it first... Just my 2 pennies...
I am going to begin a bounty to all of our devs of $100 to whomever can get a working unlocked bootloader for the Verizon 4GLTE P605V Samsung Galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. It's complete nonsense that going as far back as far as April (the first post I found searching for this) that there isn't a solution.... If you own this tablet variant as well, please jump on board.
Most devs for the 10.1 2014 have moved to the pro version. So this may be really hard to get. if you look at the unlocked versions there is little to no support for them right now as well.
Sent from my T-Mobile HTC One M8
All the Verizon/Samsung locked bootloaders have been unlockable to date as well as the AT&T varieties. Check the S4, Note 3 and S5 threads.
KennyG123 said:
All the Verizon/Samsung locked bootloaders have been unlockable to date as well as the AT&T varieties. Check the S4, Note 3 and S5 threads.
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I don't really care about the S4, my Note 3 is already unlocked, and could care less about the S5 as well. What I AM concerned with is getting my 10.1 2014 Verizon edition unlocked so I can actually get TWRP on it an put on custom ROM's. For a forum filled with lots of experts and geniuses, no one seems to want to take any time or make any effort. I am literally begging! Using any version of Odin has failed trying to get TWRP on my tablet. All the ROMs I have looked at say to install that as a prerequisite. So what is a guy to do? Should I just put a round from my .45 through it and call it a day? I am outside the 14 day return window now with Verizon, so unless someone can give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong, then I am royally screwed..........
Don_Pachuco said:
I don't really care about the S4, my Note 3 is already unlocked, and could care less about the S5 as well. What I AM concerned with is getting my 10.1 2014 Verizon edition unlocked so I can actually get TWRP on it an put on custom ROM's. For a forum filled with lots of experts and geniuses, no one seems to want to take any time or make any effort. I am literally begging! Using any version of Odin has failed trying to get TWRP on my tablet. All the ROMs I have looked at say to install that as a prerequisite. So what is a guy to do? Should I just put a round from my .45 through it and call it a day? I am outside the 14 day return window now with Verizon, so unless someone can give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong, then I am royally screwed..........
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You are missing the point. Bootloaders are not a simple security hack. They are the proprietary coding that allows the device to boot. There is NO decompiling, sorting through code, figuring out the lock and then unlocking it. There needs to be an exploit to get in and change it. Which means there is a 99% chance the wrong exploit attempt will brick the device...an not the "brick" all these people talk about mistakenly on this site...a REAL brick...dead paperweight. Think that it is an issue with this sites "geniuses" not wanting to do it? Maybe you would understand better if you blindfolded yourself and tried to assemble a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle....only you get an electric shock with every wrong piece you play.
I mentioned the other devices not to see if you "care"...it is to let you know the same method is employed to lock those as your tablet and they are just as popular with the "geniuses" that genuinely want to unlock the bootloader. AND have large bounties on them.
As to what are you supposed to do? Research next time. Buy products from a carrier that does not lock down their devices or buy a device that is not a commercial push to the military and corporate so that Verizon wants it locked down tight for more sales and contracts. Or continue to hold your breath throwing this tantrum you seem to be doing. Or...I don't know...use the tablet as it was designed to be used when sold and seems to work fine for the millions of customers who know nothing of XDA or rooting.
KennyG123 said:
You are missing the point. Bootloaders are not a simple security hack. They are the proprietary coding that allows the device to boot. There is NO decompiling, sorting through code, figuring out the lock and then unlocking it. There needs to be an exploit to get in and change it. Which means there is a 99% chance the wrong exploit attempt will brick the device...an not the "brick" all these people talk about mistakenly on this site...a REAL brick...dead paperweight. Think that it is an issue with this sites "geniuses" not wanting to do it? Maybe you would understand better if you blindfolded yourself and tried to assemble a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle....only you get an electric shock with every wrong piece you play.
I mentioned the other devices not to see if you "care"...it is to let you know the same method is employed to lock those as your tablet and they are just as popular with the "geniuses" that genuinely want to unlock the bootloader. AND have large bounties on them.
As to what are you supposed to do? Research next time. Buy products from a carrier that does not lock down their devices or buy a device that is not a commercial push to the military and corporate so that Verizon wants it locked down tight for more sales and contracts. Or continue to hold your breath throwing this tantrum you seem to be doing. Or...I don't know...use the tablet as it was designed to be used when sold and seems to work fine for the millions of customers who know nothing of XDA or rooting.
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I would have to say that in reading text, it is generally hard to understand the tone of the text. While I wasn't throwing a tantrum, the tone of your reply is pretty unmistakable. When someone comes here genuinely looking for help and assistance with a device, is it a general practice to publicly belittle and berate them? As to my bounty, I started off low to see if others would jump on board or not. As to my carrier, I have been with Verizon from day one, get a rather large corporate discount from them on devices and accessories, and have 6 lines through them, so why just to get this tablet to do what I want it to, would I change carriers? Every device that I have had in the 'smart'phone era has been Verizon, and someone has found a way to unlock them. So I apologize if I came of looking like a prick, as that was not at all my intention. I would gladly personally pay up to $100.00 if someone could help. It is very frustrating to only be able to do half of what I want to achieve with my tablet. I'm as far as I personally can go on it. If anyone was offended by my wording, again, I am sorry for that. BTW, I changed the avatar that was only taken offense to after my post. Have a happy Sunday Funday! I know I will as I am already on bloody Mary number 4 here.
Don_Pachuco said:
I would have to say that in reading text, it is generally hard to understand the tone of the text. While I wasnt throwing a tantrum, the tone of your reply is pretty unmistakable. When someone comes here genuinely looking for help and assistance with a device, is it a general practice to publicly belittle and berate them? As to my bounty, I started off low to see if others would jump on board or not. As to my carrier, I have been with Verizon from day one, get a rather large corporate discount from them on devices and accessories, and have 6 lines through them, so why just to get this tablet to do what I want it to, would I change carriers? Every device that I have had in the smartphone era has been Verizon, and someone has found a way to unlock them. So I apologize if I came of looking like a prick, as that was not at all my intention. I would gladly personally pay up to $100.00 if someone could help. It is very frustrating to only be able to do half of what I want to achieve with my tablet. Im as far as I personally can go on it. If anyone was offended by my wording, again, I am sorry for that. BTW, I changed the avatar that was only taken offense to after my post. Have a happy Sunday Funday! I know I will as I am already on bloody Mary number 4 here.
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Your phrase that asks if you should put a bullet into your tablet certainly sounded like a bit of a tantrum. Sorry if I somehow misconstrued that. Then also sounding like you were belittling XDA developers because they did not unlock the bootloader yet.. Sounded a bit entitled. There are devices years old that have never been unlocked. I have done my best to explain why there should never be a time limit or expectations of the bootloader ever being unlocked yet you also shot that down as selfishly exclaiming you did not care about those examples and were only concerned about what matters to you. Did I leave anything out? Sorry if I somehow misinterpreted any of that. Sounds like you need to start making a decision as to what is more important to you, your corporate discount or an unlocked bootloader. Have your bounty but I already explained older Verizon devices with the same locked bootloaders has stumped the security geniuses so far.
$100
$100.00
$150.00?
The devs were never really all that involved with this tablet. It is highly unlikely they will unlock the Verizon version unless they figure out the other Samsung products. Even if they would unlock the tablet you my not get any devs that are willing to port their Roms over to the Verizon version.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Ok, I give up
Don_Pachuco said:
Ok, I give up
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Say my friend..don't give up There are to many smart people at this forum... (and other forums) Trust me just have to be patient lol.. I am in the same boat some one will figure this out..
OK, I have a SM-P605v with a broken LCD (not the screen itself, but the display is discolored and not displaying correctly). It was previously Rooted and I have gotten screen emulators working when hooked up to my laptop. I would be willing to donate this to any Dev willing to work on the exploit. If there is a risk of bricking the device, then rest assured it's no biggie since the screen is bad on it. Please PM me if you are interested.
It's been a while now, anyone figure it out yet?....................................................
Has anyone tried the unlock script for the note 3 and note 4?
Here is the link to note 3.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...l/official-note-3-verizon-bootloader-t3359370
I just got a SM-P605 that is unlocked. Once I figure out where the kernal came from perhaps I can be of help here. I really want to get this thing rooted and connected with my carrier. I had had a SM-P600, but it was smashed and could not be repaired. That's why I bought this tablet. Otherwise this P605 is totally stock and runs like a very well behaved powerhouse should.
Rob
i looked at this page it says u need root to use this .
Nappyloxs said:
Has anyone tried the unlock script for the note 3 and note 4?
Here is the link to note 3.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...l/official-note-3-verizon-bootloader-t3359370
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but dont you need a unlocked bootloader to get root ?
No you don't need unlocked bootloader to root. I think I used towel root years ago to root this tablet.
Link200 said:
The devs were never really all that involved with this tablet. It is highly unlikely they will unlock the Verizon version unless they figure out the other Samsung products. Even if they would unlock the tablet you my not get any devs that are willing to port their Roms over to the Verizon version.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
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You know I really loved my SM-P600, but it was badly damaged and I don't know how or where to order in the left speaker, on/off switch from. So got really frustrated advanced ordered an SM-P605v instead and was able to get one that has an unlocked boatloader. I've not rooted it yet, or mounted TWRP on it. I may not root it though I'd like to. Even so, I'm looking into it and while, though I'm extremely happy with it,I may eventually root it.
I've explored a lot of options so far and none of them, so far, work for an SM-P605v running Android 5.1.1.
I'll get back with you about a week from now.
By the way, this tablet, and the SGN Pro are still much more powerful and capable than the Surface Pro or IPad Pro. This, even though they are getting a little older.
By the way,I spoke to a friend of mine who owns the large IPad Pro today. Apple hasn't optimised the Home screen yet, even after all these months. You'd think they'd have done better by their consumer base by now.
Even so, I'm so pleased with the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1(2014), both with the SM-P600, and the SM-P605. Unless Samsung releases a Tab A that has an S Pen and 32 gigs memory, or releases a substantial upgrade to the SM-P600,SM-P605, and SM-P607, or puts out a new SGN in the series with 64 our 128gigs internal, I'm not open to trading my tablet in. It'll be over my cold, dead body.
This whole thing just died from no interest other than from me, huh?