Database Users

Want the bootloader keys? Lets all fight back!

To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
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Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!

*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.

roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin

Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
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Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
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Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.

kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
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Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.

This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.

chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
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Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App

I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
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Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.

Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
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Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.

jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
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Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.

elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
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by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?

Live Tweet With Moto to tell them how generic and boring stock is

https://twitter.com/Motorola/status/607934001500852224 so yeah, fellow Turbo owners. Lets blow this up tonight and show we arent a tiny fragment of Moto users. Or not. The reality is we need to make our voices heard. Maybe Moto will listen. Probably not. But hey, its live. Might be fun.

Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.

I'm guessing that the OP means an unlocked bootloader and root access for custom ROMs, that kind of stock boring like stuffs...

SirBindy said:
Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.
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Click to collapse
Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx. The Turbo owners that dont have the same mentality perhaps would agree. it blows to be stuck if you want more than that out of android. isnt that what android is supposed to be? open, free?
@Wynnded is hitting the nail on the head. best hardware ive owned. the software is my qualm.

here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
edit: okay, so perhaps i should have said no more Moto on VZW, as I cannot stand the thought of not having their antennae quality..

#pacifists

Easy fix
What they should do is allow you to opt out of manufacturer warranty and insurance in trade for unlocks. I would happily give those things up as I have such a rare need for them especially in the days of glass screen protectors and repair options

kitcostantino said:
here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
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Click to collapse
Yes but your qualms have been discussed IN LARGE with Verizon multiple times in the past. The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola. Hence why all their other devices outsize VZW are unlockable. Getting verbal with VZW or Moto will do literally nothing. You're not the first one to try and "change the world". Here's the simple break-down - VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD. They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out. The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.

I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
The short version is this, man. I didn't buy the Turbo. I was "upgraded" to it. (see above). Do I think i make a difference directly? nope. I think I am (and most of us here as well are) the kind of person who drives tech outlets to report new devices. I am the guy everyone I know asks first what to buy. Sure, my $100/month isnt much. Ultimately, I am a customer. You want my business or you dont. When I shelled out $700 for a Dev Edition, I had that in mind. I could have bought anything. I chose Moto. I chose Verizon because their network is superior. There always is a balance or tradeoff. Moto dev sucks? Cool. Next. HTC? Sony? Samsung? LG? We have no shortage of hardware. I can learn to live with Wifi. Hell, i don't answer my phone when it rings most of the time. As far as the hooplah about Nexus devices and Verizon, the one thing to look at is the fact that the Nexus 6 is completely unlockable and unfettered on VZW. We can thank google for that, though, i am sure. I would love a Nexus 6 at this point.
I may want bl unlock just a hair more than you, brother.

TechSavvy2 said:
Y the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
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Click to collapse
Small numbers can have big business impact. See social media. An act such as shaming on Twitter CAN have larger PR consequences, especially if other tech media take up the refrain.
Some businesses actually LOOK for alpha individuals (there's word I can't find right now) who help shape decisions of people in their social circle and they get freebies to plug that company. Some early YouTube "shopping stars" cashed in on that. Same concept.
Verizon may be huge and arrogant, but T-mobile is the young/hip crowd. If Verizon wants to change that perception -- perhaps if the T-mobile/Dish merger goes through and causes more competition -- then Verizon would consider some adjustments for a people like us who spread word of mouth to friends/relatives about what to buy/not to buy.
I am extremely surprised the Nexus 6 is not only allowed on Verizon (thank the FCC), but sold by Verizon (not sure why).

I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
Rotflmao!!
I had a difficult time keeping my coffee down while reading this.
On topic tho, I also believe we should not just go quietly into the night. Big changes are almost always started in small numbers. Thankfully.

The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering. If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.

TechSavvy2 said:
The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola.
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Click to collapse
All Moto has to do is designate or sell a Developer Edition to comply with the agreement VZW and Moto have in regard to Bootloader Unlock. Well, and grow a pair against VZW and sell to all the other carriers. I bet they are kicking themselves for making any concessions for Verizon looking at the global sales of the Moto Maxx xt1225 versus the Droid Turbo.
TechSavvy2 said:
VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NEXUS 6 what?
TechSavvy2 said:
They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Me and my $100/month *can* in fact go elsewhere. No big loss to their corporate dividends. Ultimately, I am their customer, and if they have no interest in retention (i have no delusion here, man), then my money will be spent elsewhere.
TechSavvy2 said:
The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, if my intent were to speak sharply and pound my fist at them, there would be no reason to make such a small subset of people happy. My intent, however, is to plant seeds in the minds of others. In an average year, I advise somewhere in the realm of 20-30 people on phones, services, etc. The majority of our minute subset of users who want control of their device all likely do the same. Come to think of it, I would almost bet that out of our users, the majority are the go-to person that friends, family, colleagues, and often in my case, total strangers may be advised out of chance. Perhaps my $$ isn't worth that much. Our word of mouth, however, is taken by those ask for it to be valid.
Social media, also, is a beautiful tool for conveyance. Has a bit of a magnified result when trying to make others aware.
TechSavvy2 said:
Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And despite all of that, the VZW Nexus 6 is unfettered, bootloader unlockable, and all.
TechSavvy2 said:
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to doubt that one, man. lol.
TechSavvy2 said:
But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From earlier in the thread:
kitcostantino said:
Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TechSavvy2 said:
Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be ecstatic to have a Nexus 6 at this point. Again, I didn't choose the Turbo. Just got stuck with it.
The reality is, while we might be "lucky" to have the N6 as an option, we are the customers. We are not required to keep our service where it is. We are not required to endorse the manufacturers we do. I love Moto. Moto can play the game of appeasement with Verizon if it just has to be a "Developer Edition" to have bl unlock. A phone can be rebranded whatever "dev edition" with an accessory package and a decal and still hold to the terms of their agreement. Hell If there are so few of us, why not. Not like we are going to need anything from Verizon. (help? whats that?)
Not trying to be a richard, dude. Just reminded myself of an annoying ace person w/ all the quotes. @LeoD you feel me.
At the end of the day, it makes no real difference. I just know the products and services I will and will not be telling my mostly tech-inept friends, family, colleagues, to grab when, as they always do, they ask. Motos phones and Verizon's network have always been at the top of that list. All kings (and emperors) fall eventually from such lofty heights.
Edit #472:
Technogen said:
The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would never have sold Developer Editions if this were their mentality. The things that are supported as rationale (if you dig a bit) are the sheer cost of support coupled with wanting us to only be so happy with our devices for so long. BL unlocked Turbo? I might keep it for 3 years like my OG (bl unlocked!) Droid. Tethering, while a way to generate extra revenue is $20/month. I never use it, but i have pushed 31 gb in a month before flashing roms. (man i miss msm8960dt builds) Users like us use incredible amounts of data. There is always a new rom, android version, etc.
Technogen said:
If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly think replacing idiots phones and playing sherpa for the tech inept is as costly as initially argued. The exclusiveness of the Dev Editions prevents the average Joe from buying them, saving countless labor hours, replacements, etc.
Technogen said:
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only reason I am still with Vzw as of right now is unlimited. I havent changed my plan or gotten a subsidized phone since 2008 when i was forced into paying $30/month whether i wanted to or not. Warranty voiding is standard, unless Moto does, in fact, create Dev edition licenses.
The $50 fee is reasonable. I would even double it. VZW couldnt unlock bl and force a recovery on you, though. fastboot flash recovery.img
I get where youre going with it, though. Verizon (and any good corporation) does what is in its best interests first, customers, next.
I too speak corporate. You always have to have growth. The reality is you never want to lose any customers. Losing the crazies that don't pay their bill, cuss you out, demand things for free just because they are magical snowflakes is a totally justifiable loss. Losing the dorks like me that pay their bill, buy phones at full price, and refer others continuously is not such a good thing. Immediate effects? nope. But here i am posting on a site with (i imagine a couple) of like-minded people of the same or better skill-set.

If they sent you it as a replacement and you are unhappy with the device you should either terminate your contract as they moved outside of it by giving you a different device, or move to a different phone like the Nexus 6. You didn't get stuck with anything, you just choice to not fight for a different option.

after 2.5 months of bs with Moto "Support" i was in effect told that was as good as it gets. "Nexus is not an option" was said more times than I care to count. I even bought another phone to use in the meantime, just to be able to wait it out. Again, I have had no contract since the time before Android. Principle is the only thing that bound me to either VZW or Moto up until now.

OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.

Absolutely! the whole #unlockthedroids thing kind of fell flat. so did the petition. Then Mofo happened and everyone became content. Personally, I like the angle. I do see a couple of caveats within trying to get them to unlock subsidized phones that will likely prove insurmountable, but I do have a background in media production...
[ 5 year old watching Dad play Angry Birds...Mom calls dad into other room...Kid A picks up phone/starts to press buttons/is delighted when the UI responds. Accidentally stumbles into About Phone and presses Build Number 7 times. Mouths word/ "Developer?" ..
[scene fades, camera centered, zooming in to the word "Developer"...
[Camera tight, zoomed, scrolls through 10 calander years with glimpses of (Moto if ya ask me) phones and android wearables as double frame images spliced in, seasons, and typical holidays meshed in as well.] Kid A, now 15, runs out to the mailbox and grabs a box out of it.
Runs inside the house and pulls out components for Moto Ara-esque modular. Kid A assembles phone in a few swift movements. Then places it on the table. He says, "Wake up."
[The phone speeds through an intense boot ani for 3 seconds, then halts]
[The phone projects on the wall the homescreen, and is navigated by the hand the kids watch is on with swipes in the air. Kid A smiles sinisterly as he loads Angry Birds. ]
[Black screen with white text: "The Developers of tomorrow are taking their first steps in Android today. The possibilities are endless if these minds can grow these seeds into something more."
[secondary scene of 2020]
Kid A goes to mailbox, opens it up. Runs inside. Pulls out block phone. Swipes (manually) through screens. Tries to change colors, and a big lock and skull/crossbones pops up. NOT ALLOWED!! in bright red letters. kid throws phone in drawer. (with Turbo. lol)
#unleashtomorrow
#droiddoesntdev
ha ha. i am only partially kidding, man. this is doable.

hotrodwinston said:
OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.

Technogen said:
The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't attack it from the standpoint of what devs can do but from the standpoint of young people learning - also people in general learning a new skill that could change their lives - this policy of locking things down is preventing people from learning and may be holding back the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.

I love vanilla android. I hated my S4 until I figured out how to put vanilla on it. The only reason why I decided to get a Turbo knowing that the bootloader was locked was because it's basically vanilla. I wish more phones were vanilla. So I won't be yelling at Motorola anytime soon, but that's just me.

How much money have you "LOST" due to not being able to root the Galaxy S7/S7 Edge?

How much money have you "LOST" due to not being able to root the Galaxy S7/S7 Edge?
So, here we are, April 29th and still no root. I was curious the other day as to how much money I've spent over the years on apps that require root in able to use and were purchased because of the fact that at the time I had a device and always have had one that is rooted. So between the apps such as Clockwork MOD, Chainfires SuperSU, Flashfire, Flashify, Quickboot, ROMToolbox PRO, SDFix, Tasker, OMEGA PRO, Alliance Pro Bronze, Titamium Backup PRO, the endless themes for AOSP theme engine... geez the list goes on.
Final calculations for all apps that I've purchased that are only usable on a device with root = $ 437.88 !!!!
Share your LOST $$$ if you like.
:crying:
I plan on sharing this with @JohnLegere once we get a couple of pages going.

For that much money you might as well trade your device in and get something different that can be rooted ... i def feel you though..
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Over the years and iterations of Samsung phones I've been modding less and less. Like with my Note 5 on Sprint. I rooted soon as I got home, Greenify, TB Pro and I was pretty much set for the most part. Stock rooted slimmed down ROM, nothing fancy. I was happy with that. That's really all I want for this S7. When I finally left Sprint (thank goodness!) and made the switch to T-Mobile I really should have checked around here to make sure root was available. I just assumed it was because it's a Samsung phone on T-Mobile and I got so used to my Sprint phones getting root so quickly after launch.
I've been trying out Samsung Pay for a few days now and it's neat but not something I'd miss if I could root the phone. As long as my fingerprint sensor keeps working as it is now with root that would make me happy. I'm just not feeling this battery life I'm getting so far and it's annoying having to manually hibernate my apps with Greenify. I even added the shortcut (with its own custom icon) on my new theme just to make it quick but it's still lame I have to do it manually.
Some folks would suggest just getting another device if root is so important but I don't think we should have to compromise a fantastic device like this S7 and downgrade just to get root. I want to enjoy this new phone WITH root. I'm happy with T-Mobile so far and it's a big improvement over Sprint (I hate them so much) so I really hope they try harder to help get this phone unlocked. They're the most progressive major carrier around these parts and I hope they do us a solid here.

Only $7 for restocking fee after I returned the S7, plus $32 Otterbox case that I can't use. (Anyone wants it, let me know..)

Sailor Gerry said:
Over the years and iterations of Samsung phones I've been modding less and less. Like with my Note 5 on Sprint. I rooted soon as I got home, Greenify, TB Pro and I was pretty much set for the most part. Stock rooted slimmed down ROM, nothing fancy. I was happy with that. That's really all I want for this S7. When I finally left Sprint (thank goodness!) and made the switch to T-Mobile I really should have checked around here to make sure root was available. I just assumed it was because it's a Samsung phone on T-Mobile and I got so used to my Sprint phones getting root so quickly after launch.
I've been trying out Samsung Pay for a few days now and it's neat but not something I'd miss if I could root the phone. As long as my fingerprint sensor keeps working as it is now with root that would make me happy. I'm just not feeling this battery life I'm getting so far and it's annoying having to manually hibernate my apps with Greenify. I even added the shortcut (with its own custom icon) on my new theme just to make it quick but it's still lame I have to do it manually.
Some folks would suggest just getting another device if root is so important but I don't think we should have to compromise a fantastic device like this S7 and downgrade just to get root. I want to enjoy this new phone WITH root. I'm happy with T-Mobile so far and it's a big improvement over Sprint (I hate them so much) so I really hope they try harder to help get this phone unlocked. They're the most progressive major carrier around these parts and I hope they do us a solid here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is truly disappointing at this point. One thing I am sorely missing from root almost more than any of the hundreds of $$ in apps is Viper4Android. My workouts and "In the Zone" work time is suffering for sure. I really wish there was something more we could do, but at this point, only sharing experiences like these can be passed on to the Big Dogs and hope they'll push Samsung to work with TMo to get the bootloader unlocked. Thanks for sharing.

Ah... Viper4Android. Root cannot arrive soon enough! I just woke up and saw a low battery warning on my S7. I went to sleep with 39%.... I don't know what more I can do on this unrooted thing to improve this dang battery!

Firstly, you can't calculate the cost at full price because you have used them prior to switching to the S7. Secondly, you have not lost $438, in fact, as you still have usage access to those apps with another phone that has root.
One would actually make money by participating in the promos: BOGO and reselling the phones, reselling the Gear VRs, and the value of 2 years of Netflix (1 year per device).
Because I'd still rather have root, I found a compromise by doing the promos and getting an International 930F at a good price, and still come out ahead financially.

lost_ said:
Firstly, you can't calculate the cost at full price because you have used them prior to switching to the S7. Secondly, you have not lost $438, in fact, as you still have usage access to those apps with another phone that has root.
One would actually make money by participating in the promos: BOGO and reselling the phones, reselling the Gear VRs, and the value of 2 years of Netflix (1 year per device).
Because I'd still rather have root, I found a compromise by doing the promos and getting an International 930F at a good price, and still come out ahead financially.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well "Firstly", I can calculate the cost at whatever I want. I chose to use an easy way by simply looking at my transactions between Google Play and PayPal. And since MOST of them are actively updated, the value for me is still there. Secondly?? I currently DO NOT have another phone that is rooted or have access to one since I''m currently invested in the S7.
Next, I purchased my phone in April, no promotions, no discounts, nothing, so NO, I cannot "ACTUALLY MAKE $HYYT" off of this, so that statement is completely invalid to this situation.
Last, good for you that you found a compromise... AGAIN, not the case here.
So, basically, instead of coming in and answering the question of the topic, you trolled along in here to try and make my argument invalid. Your free to say what ever you want, I don't have a problem with that, but my statement stands, my money spent is spent and that is the facts. We still do not have an exploit to unlock the bootloader, which is another fact. I do not have another phone to enjoy the applications I've purchased for phones that is rooted, still a fact.

R.I.P, made-up $438. Terribly sorry for your virtual loss, OP. Hope you get it right somewhere, some time.

lost_ said:
R.I.P, made-up $438. Terribly sorry for your virtual loss, OP. Hope you get it right somewhere, some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pppfffttt... move along troll.

What ?! lost ? not being able to root ? what?

For the people who can't or don't want to waste brain cells on figuring it out, he tallied up the costs of various apps that are root-specific or he purchased with root in mind that he can no longer use, which I'm assuming is just an absolute crapload of Theme Engine themes, and came to the number of $438.
Of course, one could argue that in the past, he's gotten his use out of them, or that when he gets a root-able phone, he'll have those apps waiting for him. One could also argue that it's his responsibility to pick the best device for him, therefore doesn't have a right to feel a sense of loss here due to the aforementioned prior use/future availability along with his uninformed decision, despite the reason he was uninformed.
Don't know what good this would do if it was sent to Legere, but hey. That's why this is a free country. Do you, buddy!

LOL...Wow. I thought people would get this a little better than some of the responses that have been left. At least @psych0r3bel had an idea of what I was going for here. Look, it all goes back to the title and specifically "LOST". For the smart alec and those who just don't get it, first of all, let looks at the definition "quote unquote". 1)The phrase "quote unquote" denotes irony or sarcasm. 2)A quotation mark before and after a word means that it is a verbatim recitation. So, to clear it up, this thread was a place for people to share how much money they've spent on devices that have been able to be rooted to use, but with the locked bootloader on the S7, none of the can be used at the time being. So yes, I gather calculated all my Google Play purchases for apps that are only for rootable phones, all the donations on PayPal, essentially, every dollar I've paid towards software for rootable devices. Very simple, very easy, very laymen. It wasn't meant to be anything other than for a place for people to share how much money they've invested towards root. That's it.
And yes, John Legere does take note to this type of communication. I'm not asking for any money back, that's ridiculous. But, these types of threads when shared, do go noticed and gives a little more fuel to add to the fire when communicating with Samsung. If you want to participate and share towards the intentions of the thread, feel free, but if you don't have anything to share, but sarcasm and insults, please move along.
**EDIT** I just wanted to say, maybe if I wouldn't have been sarcastic with the title and been a little more clear what I was looking for, the responses would have been different. The whole purpose of this was for people to take a look and see, how much money they've invested in root since they've started rooting devices. Sorry for any confusion.

Why didn't you add in the cost of every case, extra battery and other accessories that also will not work with your new phone?
Sent from my SM-G930P using XDA-Developers mobile app

KaptainRandom said:
Why didn't you add in the cost of every case, extra battery and other accessories that also will not work with your new phone?
Sent from my SM-G930P using XDA-Developers mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another smart ass comment not related to being rooted. Probably just another loser that never paid for apps or donated to support devs... SMH.
Mods, please close this thread.

Kilokk said:
Another smart ass comment not related to being rooted. Probably just another loser that never paid for apps or donated to support devs... SMH.
Mods, please close this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been supporting devs and paying for/donating to developement since my first 'smart' phone TouchPro2.
Every device I have had since has been uniquely different.
Some of the customization (including apps/mods/acc) have been transferable,
Some (including apps/mods/acc) have not been transferable.
But, the expectation that they MUST be transferable is junvenile.
So many people like you with your demanding expectations have chased the real devs away.
You want root so bad,
learn like others have,
become a real dev and stop demanding others do it for you.
You purchased an unroot and bootloader locked phone.
You should have no expectation of root apps working on it.
unless/until you root/unlock it yourself.
With or without the generous knowledge/help of others.
Sent from my SM-G930P using XDA-Developers mobile app

Closed at OP request.
Mike

[Bootloader and Root Pot For S8/S8+ SD]

I know that eventually one dev with have the time to root and possibly find a way to unlock the bootloader. I am starting this pot for the dev/s that can pull this off and maybe even get us some TWRP for ROMing.
I'll put down:
$25 for working root
$45 for a unlocked bootloader
And $100 for root, bootloader and TWRP
I do this for because I can't and to motive development.

good luck
Sent from my SM-N930F using XDA-Developers Legacy app

If no one has figured out how to unlock the S7 by now then this one isn't getting unlocked either.......

SBERG117 said:
If no one has figured out how to unlock the S7 by now then this one isn't getting unlocked either.......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not at all true. Sometimes ways are found.

billydroid said:
That's not at all true. Sometimes ways are found.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There has been nothing to show that anyone is remotely close to unlocking the bootloader. Yes... anything is possible but this has been going on for a long while now. The devs that work on stuff here are uber talented, no doubt. It just doesn't look good at this point...

These bounties are pointless now-a-days. Samsung KNOX has a bug bounty program, they also work with Bug Crowd and HackerOne. Each of these programs offer some nice size payouts to people who find vulnerabilities in Samsung Products. Bootloader exploits would be a rather huge payout, because Samsung doesn't want people messing with the chance to make money on Samsung Pay. So IF there ever is a bootloader unlock discovered, pray said hacker does not go the way of the coin and still favors the open source community. Samsung is no ones fool, they'd gladly pay out a few $100,000 to some random dude in Russia than to loose out on secure devices that investors know has no current exploit for unlocking.
Or, I could be full of it, and we get our bootloaders unlocked tonight! While the porn star of our dreams gets cured of anything that AJAX can't get rid of, gives us the best night of our collective lives and.... the hot pocket we pull out of the microwave does not burn our mouths or have a frozen center. (here's hoping)

Love the positivity at the end but you are partially right. Money is what usually drives things now and maybe for developers as well seeing as this is a hobby more than a job, but I have seen some developers dedicated to this line of work (ie the M7SPR forums where they are on nougat on a 2013 device).

ShadowDXS said:
These bounties are pointless now-a-days. Samsung KNOX has a bug bounty program, they also work with Bug Crowd and HackerOne. Each of these programs offer some nice size payouts to people who find vulnerabilities in Samsung Products. Bootloader exploits would be a rather huge payout, because Samsung doesn't want people messing with the chance to make money on Samsung Pay. So IF there ever is a bootloader unlock discovered, pray said hacker does not go the way of the coin and still favors the open source community. Samsung is no ones fool, they'd gladly pay out a few $100,000 to some random dude in Russia than to loose out on secure devices that investors know has no current exploit for unlocking.
Or, I could be full of it, and we get our bootloaders unlocked tonight! While the porn star of our dreams gets cured of anything that AJAX can't get rid of, gives us the best night of our collective lives and.... the hot pocket we pull out of the microwave does not burn our mouths or have a frozen center. (here's hoping)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting info. Thanks.
I only got the S8+ because I got tired of LG being so behind on technology and innovation. LG has usually always been rootable.
Hopefully the Pixel 2 will be better than this S8+ and be carried on T-Mobile. Pretty sure the few last remaining devs with superior skills on XDA will focus on that device.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

billydroid said:
That's not at all true. Sometimes ways are found.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And sometimes not...
S7 is over a year old and hows that progressing for an unlock?
Security gets harder to work around each year..the days of things like safestrap and Loki are over
Sent from my Note 7, S7 Edge or S6

force70 said:
And sometimes not...
S7 is over a year old and hows that progressing for an unlock?
Security gets harder to work around each year..the days of things like safestrap and Loki are over
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a matter of demand. The iPhone gets jail broken every time. The exynos version don't have to deal with this and have root and unlocked bl. That causes the need to be diminished. It's software and it can be cracked. It's a matter of getting the attention of people with the extreme skills to do it. I'm sure jcase and company could do it. But it is alot if work and they don't need the headache, understandable. But maybe since this phone sales are way higher than the S7 we might get it this time around. Coupled with the fact that every update breaks the process , if there is one. Who wants to deal with that?
No software security is foolproof, it just isn't. That doesn't mean someone will find the way. But it certainly is possible

My prediction, having seen how things are since the days of gakaxy note 1, is that 1) there will be no unlocking of the bootloader 2) an engineering kernel will leak soon which will allow rooting (like it happened for s7).
With all the flexibility worked into these newer phones reasons for rooting have become much fewer. I rooted my s7 when the rootable kernel became available but the kernel was buggy and needed a lot of tweaking, and some of my apps didn't work well with the root so I reverted. Honestly the phone ran so smoothly on the stock rom that I never missed root.

thowersome said:
I know that eventually one dev with have the time to root and possibly find a way to unlock the bootloader. I am starting this pot for the dev/s that can pull this off and maybe even get us some TWRP for ROMing.
I'll put down:
$25 for working root
$45 for a unlocked bootloader
And $100 for root, bootloader and TWRP
I do this for because I can't and to motive development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why would you mirror what's already being done?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8+/how-to/bounty-thread-snapdragon-usa-variants-t3598271

hazmad said:
why would you mirror what's already being done?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8+/how-to/bounty-thread-snapdragon-usa-variants-t3598271
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks for the links but check your dates on when posts are made. This post was made 04/25/2017 and the linked post was made 04/29/2017. I don't care which post gets followed as long as someone can help the forum. Not trying to be an @$$ but always study sources before posting.

thowersome said:
Hey thanks for the links but check your dates on when posts are made. This post was made 04/25/2017 and the linked post was made 04/29/2017. I don't care which post gets followed as long as someone can help the forum. Not trying to be an @$$ but always study sources before posting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post dates are like instruction manuals - I ignore them
These carrier sub-forums get little traffic. If you had posted this to the Main S8+ page, you would have been golden

Verizon Pixel with Its Locked Bootloader

Greetings fellow nerds. How's it hangin'
Note to admin, I don't have permissions to create a dev thread. Your move broooh.
Uhhhh so this whole "Wah VZN and I couldn't buy a google pixel in full because I'm poor" has been getting on my nerves. I too can't afford an $900 phone and due to college, my credit history is a burden.
I want to start a discussion on the feasibility of literally opening up a phone, jamming some probes in and directly overwriting the chip to a generic bootloader/kernel.
Maybe you'd have to replace the chip and start with a blank slate, I dunno, but it's a frikkin' rock encased in refined dinosaur crap. How could the awesome might of electricity (in the form of merciless shock therapy) fail against a turd-encrusted sand-dollar? I don't think so.
I just made this account. Hope to see some naysayers in the morning at least telling me the idea is pointless and I'm an idiot so I don't waste my time.
Btw I don't mean zapping a chip, I just meant using one of those in-system programmers. This method could probably never be patched which is worth looking at as an exploit. AMiR?
Anyone notice that Verizon's latest commercial stars the protagonist of Silicon Valley? As if.

I kind of agree but the knife cuts both ways here. Us making posts about devs needing to try harder to unlock the bootloader may just be getting annoying. They know who they are and they may or may not be working on it. I would love to know somebody that knew how to do this or have an understanding of this. Even at the basic level I wish I knew where they even started.
The way I look at it, the bounty for unlocking the bootloader being ~2k isnt enough. This probably takes weeks to do. I would assume whoever figures out the exploits has an engineering degree from somewhere and understands how programming and exploitation works. They can probably make more money in a weeks time than what the bounty will ever be from this site.

It's not the bounty or the money. There is no reason to unlock the bootloader since the Google version is unlockable. And then a new update comes out and it's locked again. It's just pointless.
Sent from my Pixel using XDA-Developers Legacy app

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The best bet for unlocking this, or any other phone, is to keep an eye on Linux kernel vulnerabilities. It's not a magic box, it's a small computer running modified Linux. The tricky bit is if a vuln is found, it will be patched. Is it work? Yes. Is it more effort than it's worth? Probably. Is it fun? If it's interesting to you, then yes!
I think in the end, if you look at it as a mystery or puzzle when trying to unlock your device, it can be fun. If you are wanting or needing extra functionality that requires root, then you should likely buy it direct from Google. In principle I don't like that it's locked, but in practice it doesn't matter too much. I totally understand people not being able to afford to drop the money up front, hell I'm one of em! At the same time though, there's nothing magic about "the devs." They're just people who found this stuff fascinating and decided to learn how to do it. Which means YOU can do it too! Only thing standing between you and an unlocked device is investment, either in money (a google phone), or in time (learn how these things work and try it yourself).
Ok this ended in me rambling a bit. Hopefully it made sense.

Has anyone tried manually flashing an ota update through the stock recovery ? It Should pass signature verification from the locked bootloader right ? If so , couldn't there be a way to fake the signature , so a modified .zip could be flashed on a locked bootloader ?
IDK just asking since I got a Verizon version a week ago . Been on Nexus devices since the Galaxy Nexus . I am pretty upset at my ignorance on not knowing Verizon locked the bootloader on their version before buying.
I'm not an expert but I have some experience modding kernels and recoveries on the Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 6
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Jessooca said:
I understand what you're asking and I too bought a Pixel XL (verizon version) forgetting entirely about the locked bootloader... in all the other nexus devices I've had you could simply download the latest official image from google for the device and simply flash it and youd have a nexus/pixel you could use on whichever carrier you want and not have to worry about bloatware, etc... so I am assuming your asking if you can do just that, simply download the latest full factory image https://dl.google.com/dl/android/aosp/marlin-opr3.170623.007-factory-fc68b6a3.zip and flash it to your phone and will it work or cause issues...... well it simply will fail from the get go IF it won't work.
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Basically what I was getting at is there might be a way to trick the locked bootloader into thinking a .zip file I flash is an ota update when it's really something else . It's the only way I see a route into gaining superuser privilege.
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
Basically what I was getting at is there might be a way to trick the locked bootloader into thinking a .zip file I flash is an ota update when it's really something else . It's the only way I see a route into gaining superuser privilege.
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
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You do that. Let us know what they say. It's prolly just a mistake on their part. They prolly didn't mean to lock them.
LMAO.

mattwheat said:
You do that. Let us know what they say. It's prolly just a mistake on their part. They prolly didn't mean to lock them.
LMAO.
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Id say save your time calling them. They will more than likely give you some ,in their eyes common sense, reasons in the direction of "Its network security" or "we don't want our customers unknowingly flashing a file not meant for the device and bricking their device" ect. Look online as to why they chose to lock the boot loader, because they can get away with it hiding behind network security and watching out for customers.

bsmitty83 said:
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
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Click to collapse
I highly doubt it. They do it for security as well as a control measure when it comes to warranty, returns, and insurance.
You have dishonest people that would do things to their devices and brick them and try to say it's a defect. Back in the day you could load iPhone firmware onto an iPod, brick it so bad their in-store software tools couldn't find the root cause and walk out with a shiny new device because it looks like a defect.
The fact that a nexus / pixel is almost impossible to brick is irrelevant because they arent in the business of quantifying how brickable or not a device is and applying bootloaders accordingly.
The majority of their customers don't even know what a bootloader is.
Further more I don't think anyone in their 3 tier service model will give you a useful answer based off of the point above. Even if you got an answer how will that change what the current situation is.
Frankly I'd figure out a way to buy from Google and screw the run around because I bet you there are people holding out hope for an early exploit like we had on the Pixel which is highly unlikely.
Unless you can find how bootloaders are in violation of the block C rules, this is a losing battle.

pcriz said:
I highly doubt it. They do it for security as well as a control measure when it comes to warranty, returns, and insurance.
You have dishonest people that would do things to their devices and brick them and try to say it's a defect. Back in the day you could load iPhone firmware onto an iPod, brick it so bad their in-store software tools couldn't find the root cause and walk out with a shiny new device because it looks like a defect.
The fact that a nexus / pixel is almost impossible to brick is irrelevant because they arent in the business of quantifying how brickable or not a device is and applying bootloaders accordingly.
The majority of their customers don't even know what a bootloader is.
Further more I don't think anyone in their 3 tier service model will give you a useful answer based off of the point above. Even if you got an answer how will that change what the current situation is.
Frankly I'd figure out a way to buy from Google and screw the run around because I bet you there are people holding out hope for an early exploit like we had on the Pixel which is highly unlikely.
Unless you can find how bootloaders are in violation of the block C rules, this is a losing battle.
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It's definitely not a security issue , if they were worried about it on their end , the network end , I would never have been running unlocked bootloader devices on their network for better part of a decade. There's no reason they can give other than " we don't want people messing with their phone "
I honestly don't care if they hang up on me when I call , but they greyed out a switch and left a message to contact them so that's what I'll do since I guess no one else ever has . I'll laugh if they do unlock it for me ......
Again I was merely trying to suggest ways to attack the problem , I'm surprised there isn't more of a will to over come the problem simply because it's a challenge , not go buy a google version . I did buy a google version , screw Verizon . I'll find a way to unlock it or someone who can , or they will .
Xda has changed a lot..... [emoji53]
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
It's definitely not a security issue , if they were worried about it on their end , the network end , I would never have been running unlocked bootloader devices on their network for better part of a decade. There's no reason they can give other than " we don't want people messing with their phone "
I honestly don't care if they hang up on me when I call , but they greyed out a switch and left a message to contact them so that's what I'll do since I guess no one else ever has . I'll laugh if they do unlock it for me ......
Again I was merely trying to suggest ways to attack the problem , I'm surprised there isn't more of a will to over come the problem simply because it's a challenge , not go buy a google version . I did buy a google version , screw Verizon . I'll find a way to unlock it or someone who can , or they will .
Xda has changed a lot..... [emoji53]
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Click to collapse
Them allowing you to run an unlocked device has nothing to do with what they sell. They can't prevent you from using a compatible device if their network supports it and it isn't black listed. That's an FCC rule, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the bootloader on your device.
XDA hasn't changed, the fact that you think this battle is brand new and we are blazing a trail just shows a short sightedness of the community.
There have been hundreds of petitions created, there have been pushes in various device threads to flood the FCC with requests to elevate the issue. Verizon as well as other carriers have literally had lawsuits levied against them. This has literally been going on for YEARS.
Please tell me after reading all that what calling and wasting the time of tech support is gonna do.
The real funny thing is someone that thinks they can call tech support and simply get your bootloader unlocked. That is hilarious.
Tell me who do you think designed and very likely has the means to unlock the boot loader on your GOOGLE Pixel? Hint, it isn't Verizon.
Verizon didn't develop the patch that blocked the exploit either. So what do you really think Verizon is gonna do to help you by calling tech support.
You want your bootloader unlocked? Get super friendly with a Google Android engineer, get super smart with Android period, or get a lawyer.
Xda hasn't changed, the mobile market has changed and it is making it harder to feel bad for people that buy subsidized carrier phones and then cry about locked bootloaders
Especially when affordable unlocked devices exist. But hey, screw logic. Let's go harass CSRs like their jobs don't suck enough.

pcriz said:
Them allowing you to run an unlocked device has nothing to do with what they sell. They can't prevent you from using a compatible device if their network supports it and it isn't black listed. That's an FCC rule, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the bootloader on your device.
XDA hasn't changed, the fact that you think this battle is brand new and we are blazing a trail just shows a short sightedness of the community.
There have been hundreds of petitions created, there have been pushes in various device threads to flood the FCC with requests to elevate the issue. Verizon as well as other carriers have literally had lawsuits levied against them. This has literally been going on for YEARS.
Please tell me after reading all that what calling and wasting the time of tech support is gonna do.
The real funny thing is someone that thinks they can call tech support and simply get your bootloader unlocked. That is hilarious.
Tell me who do you think designed and very likely has the means to unlock the boot loader on your GOOGLE Pixel? Hint, it isn't Verizon.
Verizon didn't develop the patch that blocked the exploit either. So what do you really think Verizon is gonna do to help you by calling tech support.
You want your bootloader unlocked? Get super friendly with a Google Android engineer, get super smart with Android period, or get a lawyer.
Xda hasn't changed, the mobile market has changed and it is making it harder to feel bad for people that buy subsidized carrier phones and then cry about locked bootloaders
Especially when affordable unlocked devices exist. But hey, screw logic. Let's go harass CSRs like their jobs don't suck enough.
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Click to collapse
I guess I wasn't being clear enough . All I was trying to understand is why its locked in the first place . My Nexus 6 was never locked by Verizon . What if I paid full price outright for it from Verizon ? Why would they care what I do with the phone once its paid for ? What would be the difference if I bought it from google and put a Verizon sim card in it ? You sound so keen on defending the company and their poor hapless CSR's lol .
I don't care about the petitions or any of what your telling me .
I have no interest in lawsuits , simply finding a means to unlock my bootloader .
I could care less if it was htc that designed the patch , or google or apple.
I'm looking to find a way to make it work because it's something to do .
It's about unlocking it , that's it . People on this site used to be about finding solutions to problems , that's all .
Tell me what's wrong with that logic.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
I guess I wasn't being clear enough . All I was trying to understand is why its locked in the first place . My Nexus 6 was never locked by Verizon . What if I paid full price outright for it from Verizon ? Why would they care what I do with the phone once its paid for ? What would be the difference if I bought it from google and put a Verizon sim card in it ? You sound so keen on defending the company and their poor hapless CSR's lol .
I don't care about the petitions or any of what your telling me .
I have no interest in lawsuits , simply finding a means to unlock my bootloader .
I could care less if it was htc that designed the patch , or google or apple.
I'm looking to find a way to make it work because it's something to do .
It's about unlocking it , that's it . People on this site used to be about finding solutions to problems , that's all .
Tell me what's wrong with that logic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you don't care about fighting the market status quo of carriers locking devices which would be a preventative measure to help all mobile device users. Got it...
You want to know why it's locked and how to unlock it, but can't trouble yourself with asking questions to the right people. Got it..
Part of solution finding is narrowing down all the efforts that have failed or won't work for obvious reason, like calling them and saying why is my phone bootloader locked, calling them and asking if they can unlock it. Yet the fact that I don't agree with that means there is inherently something wrong with XDA.
I mention legal means as it relates to their block c spectrum purchase, you don't want to hear that. Again let me say again you have to make comment that XDA has changed. But yet another path ignored.
I get it now so I will agree to disagree, some people want thumbs up and yes men around them instead of well rounded opinions.
I tell you what. If you call and they tell you how to unlock your device I will Google wallet you 50 bucks.

pcriz said:
So you don't care about fighting the market status quo of carriers locking devices which would be a preventative measure to help all mobile device users. Got it...
You want to know why it's locked and how to unlock it, but can't trouble yourself with asking questions to the right people. Got it..
Part of solution finding is narrowing down all the efforts that have failed or won't work for obvious reason, like calling them and saying why is my phone bootloader locked, calling them and asking if they can unlock it. Yet the fact that I don't agree with that means there is inherently something wrong with XDA.
I mention legal means as it relates to their block c spectrum purchase, you don't want to hear that. Again let me say again you have to make comment that XDA has changed. But yet another path ignored.
I get it now so I will agree to disagree, some people want thumbs up and yes men around them instead of well rounded opinions.
I tell you what. If you call and they tell you how to unlock your device I will Google wallet you 50 bucks.
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Click to collapse
I'm not interested in fighting the status quo , no .
I'm into actual software development . Hands on stuff . I'm not a politician .
Your trying to give me solutions to a problem that isn't relevant to my immediate problem. I was looking for software related fixes .
Your too hung up on me calling Verizon lol . It was more tongue in cheek than anything , and it was an edit to my post about finding a workaround to the greyed out settings switch . That was all .
So again if you have any advice on how to unlock the bootloader , which is what I'm trying to do , not fight the man , please advise .
That's the spirit of xda , software development , not "fighting market status quo"
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

So what did Verizon say?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

stinger4321 said:
So what did Verizon say?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®

micmars said:
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol

micmars said:
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®
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Click to collapse
Lol.. i figured he hadn't called yet.. just liked blowing smoke in here...But I did unlock my bootloader.... Sold it on swappa... Now waiting on pixel prices to drop or waiting for pixel 2.. meantime rocking my nexus 6 which has more support then the pixel...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I've called Verizon on the locked bootloader issue when I was stuck on O beta and trying to downgrade. I first called Google because I unenrolled the beta and never got the OTA to go back to 7.1.2. They told me to flash the image but I told them I couldn't since the bl is locked. The rep told me to call VZW to have them unlock it so I called them and the VZW rep was all "wut, we don't fool around with OS, call Google and tell them to unlock it." I called Google and was told they couldn't unlock it. I seriously miss root.