Database Users

Verizon Pixel with Its Locked Bootloader - Google Pixel XL Guides, News, & Discussion

Greetings fellow nerds. How's it hangin'
Note to admin, I don't have permissions to create a dev thread. Your move broooh.
Uhhhh so this whole "Wah VZN and I couldn't buy a google pixel in full because I'm poor" has been getting on my nerves. I too can't afford an $900 phone and due to college, my credit history is a burden.
I want to start a discussion on the feasibility of literally opening up a phone, jamming some probes in and directly overwriting the chip to a generic bootloader/kernel.
Maybe you'd have to replace the chip and start with a blank slate, I dunno, but it's a frikkin' rock encased in refined dinosaur crap. How could the awesome might of electricity (in the form of merciless shock therapy) fail against a turd-encrusted sand-dollar? I don't think so.
I just made this account. Hope to see some naysayers in the morning at least telling me the idea is pointless and I'm an idiot so I don't waste my time.
Btw I don't mean zapping a chip, I just meant using one of those in-system programmers. This method could probably never be patched which is worth looking at as an exploit. AMiR?
Anyone notice that Verizon's latest commercial stars the protagonist of Silicon Valley? As if.

I kind of agree but the knife cuts both ways here. Us making posts about devs needing to try harder to unlock the bootloader may just be getting annoying. They know who they are and they may or may not be working on it. I would love to know somebody that knew how to do this or have an understanding of this. Even at the basic level I wish I knew where they even started.
The way I look at it, the bounty for unlocking the bootloader being ~2k isnt enough. This probably takes weeks to do. I would assume whoever figures out the exploits has an engineering degree from somewhere and understands how programming and exploitation works. They can probably make more money in a weeks time than what the bounty will ever be from this site.

It's not the bounty or the money. There is no reason to unlock the bootloader since the Google version is unlockable. And then a new update comes out and it's locked again. It's just pointless.
Sent from my Pixel using XDA-Developers Legacy app

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The best bet for unlocking this, or any other phone, is to keep an eye on Linux kernel vulnerabilities. It's not a magic box, it's a small computer running modified Linux. The tricky bit is if a vuln is found, it will be patched. Is it work? Yes. Is it more effort than it's worth? Probably. Is it fun? If it's interesting to you, then yes!
I think in the end, if you look at it as a mystery or puzzle when trying to unlock your device, it can be fun. If you are wanting or needing extra functionality that requires root, then you should likely buy it direct from Google. In principle I don't like that it's locked, but in practice it doesn't matter too much. I totally understand people not being able to afford to drop the money up front, hell I'm one of em! At the same time though, there's nothing magic about "the devs." They're just people who found this stuff fascinating and decided to learn how to do it. Which means YOU can do it too! Only thing standing between you and an unlocked device is investment, either in money (a google phone), or in time (learn how these things work and try it yourself).
Ok this ended in me rambling a bit. Hopefully it made sense.

Has anyone tried manually flashing an ota update through the stock recovery ? It Should pass signature verification from the locked bootloader right ? If so , couldn't there be a way to fake the signature , so a modified .zip could be flashed on a locked bootloader ?
IDK just asking since I got a Verizon version a week ago . Been on Nexus devices since the Galaxy Nexus . I am pretty upset at my ignorance on not knowing Verizon locked the bootloader on their version before buying.
I'm not an expert but I have some experience modding kernels and recoveries on the Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 6
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Jessooca said:
I understand what you're asking and I too bought a Pixel XL (verizon version) forgetting entirely about the locked bootloader... in all the other nexus devices I've had you could simply download the latest official image from google for the device and simply flash it and youd have a nexus/pixel you could use on whichever carrier you want and not have to worry about bloatware, etc... so I am assuming your asking if you can do just that, simply download the latest full factory image https://dl.google.com/dl/android/aosp/marlin-opr3.170623.007-factory-fc68b6a3.zip and flash it to your phone and will it work or cause issues...... well it simply will fail from the get go IF it won't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically what I was getting at is there might be a way to trick the locked bootloader into thinking a .zip file I flash is an ota update when it's really something else . It's the only way I see a route into gaining superuser privilege.
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
Basically what I was getting at is there might be a way to trick the locked bootloader into thinking a .zip file I flash is an ota update when it's really something else . It's the only way I see a route into gaining superuser privilege.
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do that. Let us know what they say. It's prolly just a mistake on their part. They prolly didn't mean to lock them.
LMAO.

mattwheat said:
You do that. Let us know what they say. It's prolly just a mistake on their part. They prolly didn't mean to lock them.
LMAO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id say save your time calling them. They will more than likely give you some ,in their eyes common sense, reasons in the direction of "Its network security" or "we don't want our customers unknowingly flashing a file not meant for the device and bricking their device" ect. Look online as to why they chose to lock the boot loader, because they can get away with it hiding behind network security and watching out for customers.

bsmitty83 said:
Also I am going to call Verizon and see why they decided to do this. I can't see an answer that they could give that would be reasonable . Hopefully they have the ability to unlock them or push an update to unlock after the pixel 2 is out IDK .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I highly doubt it. They do it for security as well as a control measure when it comes to warranty, returns, and insurance.
You have dishonest people that would do things to their devices and brick them and try to say it's a defect. Back in the day you could load iPhone firmware onto an iPod, brick it so bad their in-store software tools couldn't find the root cause and walk out with a shiny new device because it looks like a defect.
The fact that a nexus / pixel is almost impossible to brick is irrelevant because they arent in the business of quantifying how brickable or not a device is and applying bootloaders accordingly.
The majority of their customers don't even know what a bootloader is.
Further more I don't think anyone in their 3 tier service model will give you a useful answer based off of the point above. Even if you got an answer how will that change what the current situation is.
Frankly I'd figure out a way to buy from Google and screw the run around because I bet you there are people holding out hope for an early exploit like we had on the Pixel which is highly unlikely.
Unless you can find how bootloaders are in violation of the block C rules, this is a losing battle.

pcriz said:
I highly doubt it. They do it for security as well as a control measure when it comes to warranty, returns, and insurance.
You have dishonest people that would do things to their devices and brick them and try to say it's a defect. Back in the day you could load iPhone firmware onto an iPod, brick it so bad their in-store software tools couldn't find the root cause and walk out with a shiny new device because it looks like a defect.
The fact that a nexus / pixel is almost impossible to brick is irrelevant because they arent in the business of quantifying how brickable or not a device is and applying bootloaders accordingly.
The majority of their customers don't even know what a bootloader is.
Further more I don't think anyone in their 3 tier service model will give you a useful answer based off of the point above. Even if you got an answer how will that change what the current situation is.
Frankly I'd figure out a way to buy from Google and screw the run around because I bet you there are people holding out hope for an early exploit like we had on the Pixel which is highly unlikely.
Unless you can find how bootloaders are in violation of the block C rules, this is a losing battle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's definitely not a security issue , if they were worried about it on their end , the network end , I would never have been running unlocked bootloader devices on their network for better part of a decade. There's no reason they can give other than " we don't want people messing with their phone "
I honestly don't care if they hang up on me when I call , but they greyed out a switch and left a message to contact them so that's what I'll do since I guess no one else ever has . I'll laugh if they do unlock it for me ......
Again I was merely trying to suggest ways to attack the problem , I'm surprised there isn't more of a will to over come the problem simply because it's a challenge , not go buy a google version . I did buy a google version , screw Verizon . I'll find a way to unlock it or someone who can , or they will .
Xda has changed a lot..... [emoji53]
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
It's definitely not a security issue , if they were worried about it on their end , the network end , I would never have been running unlocked bootloader devices on their network for better part of a decade. There's no reason they can give other than " we don't want people messing with their phone "
I honestly don't care if they hang up on me when I call , but they greyed out a switch and left a message to contact them so that's what I'll do since I guess no one else ever has . I'll laugh if they do unlock it for me ......
Again I was merely trying to suggest ways to attack the problem , I'm surprised there isn't more of a will to over come the problem simply because it's a challenge , not go buy a google version . I did buy a google version , screw Verizon . I'll find a way to unlock it or someone who can , or they will .
Xda has changed a lot..... [emoji53]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Them allowing you to run an unlocked device has nothing to do with what they sell. They can't prevent you from using a compatible device if their network supports it and it isn't black listed. That's an FCC rule, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the bootloader on your device.
XDA hasn't changed, the fact that you think this battle is brand new and we are blazing a trail just shows a short sightedness of the community.
There have been hundreds of petitions created, there have been pushes in various device threads to flood the FCC with requests to elevate the issue. Verizon as well as other carriers have literally had lawsuits levied against them. This has literally been going on for YEARS.
Please tell me after reading all that what calling and wasting the time of tech support is gonna do.
The real funny thing is someone that thinks they can call tech support and simply get your bootloader unlocked. That is hilarious.
Tell me who do you think designed and very likely has the means to unlock the boot loader on your GOOGLE Pixel? Hint, it isn't Verizon.
Verizon didn't develop the patch that blocked the exploit either. So what do you really think Verizon is gonna do to help you by calling tech support.
You want your bootloader unlocked? Get super friendly with a Google Android engineer, get super smart with Android period, or get a lawyer.
Xda hasn't changed, the mobile market has changed and it is making it harder to feel bad for people that buy subsidized carrier phones and then cry about locked bootloaders
Especially when affordable unlocked devices exist. But hey, screw logic. Let's go harass CSRs like their jobs don't suck enough.

pcriz said:
Them allowing you to run an unlocked device has nothing to do with what they sell. They can't prevent you from using a compatible device if their network supports it and it isn't black listed. That's an FCC rule, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the bootloader on your device.
XDA hasn't changed, the fact that you think this battle is brand new and we are blazing a trail just shows a short sightedness of the community.
There have been hundreds of petitions created, there have been pushes in various device threads to flood the FCC with requests to elevate the issue. Verizon as well as other carriers have literally had lawsuits levied against them. This has literally been going on for YEARS.
Please tell me after reading all that what calling and wasting the time of tech support is gonna do.
The real funny thing is someone that thinks they can call tech support and simply get your bootloader unlocked. That is hilarious.
Tell me who do you think designed and very likely has the means to unlock the boot loader on your GOOGLE Pixel? Hint, it isn't Verizon.
Verizon didn't develop the patch that blocked the exploit either. So what do you really think Verizon is gonna do to help you by calling tech support.
You want your bootloader unlocked? Get super friendly with a Google Android engineer, get super smart with Android period, or get a lawyer.
Xda hasn't changed, the mobile market has changed and it is making it harder to feel bad for people that buy subsidized carrier phones and then cry about locked bootloaders
Especially when affordable unlocked devices exist. But hey, screw logic. Let's go harass CSRs like their jobs don't suck enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I wasn't being clear enough . All I was trying to understand is why its locked in the first place . My Nexus 6 was never locked by Verizon . What if I paid full price outright for it from Verizon ? Why would they care what I do with the phone once its paid for ? What would be the difference if I bought it from google and put a Verizon sim card in it ? You sound so keen on defending the company and their poor hapless CSR's lol .
I don't care about the petitions or any of what your telling me .
I have no interest in lawsuits , simply finding a means to unlock my bootloader .
I could care less if it was htc that designed the patch , or google or apple.
I'm looking to find a way to make it work because it's something to do .
It's about unlocking it , that's it . People on this site used to be about finding solutions to problems , that's all .
Tell me what's wrong with that logic.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

bsmitty83 said:
I guess I wasn't being clear enough . All I was trying to understand is why its locked in the first place . My Nexus 6 was never locked by Verizon . What if I paid full price outright for it from Verizon ? Why would they care what I do with the phone once its paid for ? What would be the difference if I bought it from google and put a Verizon sim card in it ? You sound so keen on defending the company and their poor hapless CSR's lol .
I don't care about the petitions or any of what your telling me .
I have no interest in lawsuits , simply finding a means to unlock my bootloader .
I could care less if it was htc that designed the patch , or google or apple.
I'm looking to find a way to make it work because it's something to do .
It's about unlocking it , that's it . People on this site used to be about finding solutions to problems , that's all .
Tell me what's wrong with that logic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you don't care about fighting the market status quo of carriers locking devices which would be a preventative measure to help all mobile device users. Got it...
You want to know why it's locked and how to unlock it, but can't trouble yourself with asking questions to the right people. Got it..
Part of solution finding is narrowing down all the efforts that have failed or won't work for obvious reason, like calling them and saying why is my phone bootloader locked, calling them and asking if they can unlock it. Yet the fact that I don't agree with that means there is inherently something wrong with XDA.
I mention legal means as it relates to their block c spectrum purchase, you don't want to hear that. Again let me say again you have to make comment that XDA has changed. But yet another path ignored.
I get it now so I will agree to disagree, some people want thumbs up and yes men around them instead of well rounded opinions.
I tell you what. If you call and they tell you how to unlock your device I will Google wallet you 50 bucks.

pcriz said:
So you don't care about fighting the market status quo of carriers locking devices which would be a preventative measure to help all mobile device users. Got it...
You want to know why it's locked and how to unlock it, but can't trouble yourself with asking questions to the right people. Got it..
Part of solution finding is narrowing down all the efforts that have failed or won't work for obvious reason, like calling them and saying why is my phone bootloader locked, calling them and asking if they can unlock it. Yet the fact that I don't agree with that means there is inherently something wrong with XDA.
I mention legal means as it relates to their block c spectrum purchase, you don't want to hear that. Again let me say again you have to make comment that XDA has changed. But yet another path ignored.
I get it now so I will agree to disagree, some people want thumbs up and yes men around them instead of well rounded opinions.
I tell you what. If you call and they tell you how to unlock your device I will Google wallet you 50 bucks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not interested in fighting the status quo , no .
I'm into actual software development . Hands on stuff . I'm not a politician .
Your trying to give me solutions to a problem that isn't relevant to my immediate problem. I was looking for software related fixes .
Your too hung up on me calling Verizon lol . It was more tongue in cheek than anything , and it was an edit to my post about finding a workaround to the greyed out settings switch . That was all .
So again if you have any advice on how to unlock the bootloader , which is what I'm trying to do , not fight the man , please advise .
That's the spirit of xda , software development , not "fighting market status quo"
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

So what did Verizon say?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

stinger4321 said:
So what did Verizon say?
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®

micmars said:
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol

micmars said:
My understanding is that Verizon suggested multi-pronged approach, including,
1. Call VZW customer service
2. Hire a lawyer
3. Complain to the FCC independent of your attorney
4. Start a thread on xda
4.1. Generically denigrate the quality and state of development on xda
4.2. Misspell "you're" as often as you please
4.3. Kvetch at xda users, including @pcriz
5. "Thank you for calling Verizon"
I believe that buying directly from Google was never mentioned.
Lol®
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol.. i figured he hadn't called yet.. just liked blowing smoke in here...But I did unlock my bootloader.... Sold it on swappa... Now waiting on pixel prices to drop or waiting for pixel 2.. meantime rocking my nexus 6 which has more support then the pixel...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I've called Verizon on the locked bootloader issue when I was stuck on O beta and trying to downgrade. I first called Google because I unenrolled the beta and never got the OTA to go back to 7.1.2. They told me to flash the image but I told them I couldn't since the bl is locked. The rep told me to call VZW to have them unlock it so I called them and the VZW rep was all "wut, we don't fool around with OS, call Google and tell them to unlock it." I called Google and was told they couldn't unlock it. I seriously miss root.

Related

does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv

The short answer is No, they don't.
While they basically have no recourse if we do root their devices, they have no obligation to allow us to do so. Also they (the manf.) have evry right to put protections in place to attempt to not allow thier devices to be rooted.

frycook15 said:
does motorola have to give us full control on our device now since this came out says we should be able to do whatever we want right?I know its mainly for iphone but it says iphones and other devices
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/technology/27iphone.html?src=mv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was, um.... interesting. I had no this issue had reached a legal victory. I think it just means you can do whatever you want on your own hardware and share it with others without fear of legal reprise. Doesnt mean Moto's going to suddenly set up a how to on root on their website.

No. They also do not have to fix your phone even if you rooted it and that is terms for voiding the contract.
All this did was confirm people have property rights.

Motorola legally don't have to give us control, the article is stated that as a consumer you can do what ever you want with your phone expect for illegal action that wont result in a lawsuit by the Company because you modified their device that is now yours.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

I would say this more or less only affects people who root/JB phones (people like the iPhone dev-team, who actually release tools/methods of rooting/JB'ing). The common jailbreaker/rooter isn't going to actually get sued over it. People who make tools that allow everyone else to, may actually get sued (which now they can't?). =p

AaronsDarts said:
I really don't see any problems with rooting your own phone and i hate that company's like verizon and motorola lock down an open source os, so only their programs work on it. Like the wifi tether, verizon trying to charge $20 when its a feature the phone can do for free.
Its kinda pointless for them to fight it because if we pay for a$ 600 phone you better be damn sure i am going to do what i want with it when i want to.
Plus i think that the only reason motorola locked the bootloader is because verizon asked them to. Motorola os.making no extra money out of doing. Verizon has all the gain in whether to let root or other programs work.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

omnifox said:
This is the same tech that is in all omap phones. And was in place on the "open" version of the droid. The milestone. Moto and verizon would and did know that locking the bootloader would NOT prevent tethering.
The locked bootloader is to protect moto's intellectual property that they have invested on their platform. As well as preventing having to deal with returns of screwed up phones, from badly flashed phones.
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
People really need to learn the real meaning of open source, as well as the difference between rooting and a locked bootloader.
Don't like it? Get another device on another network.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.

I dont see why phone manufacturers think they have the right to lock us down and dictate what software we can run on the phone. We purchase the phone for $500-600, its legally ours. I should be able to run any OS or software on it that I choose to. Nobody dictates what software or OS I can or can't run on my desktop computer, and if they did try to, the Justice Dept or the EU would be all over them like a cheap suit suing them and fining them like crazy. So where do these phone manf's get the gall to do it??
I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against one phone manufacturer. It would scare others in to backing off this assanine behavior.

omnifox said:
It's motos right to do it. Just the same as its your right to crack it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...

I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business

FtL1776 said:
This guy is 100% correct. It was mostly about protecting THEIR ROM, they cannot patent any part of their ROM specifically the resizable widgets, so they most likely didn't want custom ROMs out there able to do it and specifically delaying others from doing it and apparently HTC and Samsung seem to have no interest in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that a locked bootloader doesn't prevent you from taking the framework and other files OFF of the phone, just prevents you from putting a custom ROM ON the phone.
There are some devs working on extracting blur pieces, but from what I've read so far, it's pretty inter-twined, much like HTC's Sense framework.
Yes, I know that Motorola has 'Said' the bootloader is locked to protect their IP, and that VZW has nothing to do with it. And of course, we all read this on the internet, so it must be true.
I think it's reasonable to conclude that Moto has self interests in mind here as well. But to think that VZW doesn't have an 'opinion' on this is just plain naive. I'll give you three guesses (and the first two won't count) as to whether the official VZW froyo release has wi-fi tethering included, or if it's been disabled.

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cbaty08 said:
I like your thinking; Is there anything us "smaller" people can do to help the cause? I guess I am thinking something along the lines of a suggestions box to the fcc or something.....
Anyways, it would be sweet to see Motorola unlock this phone themselves with an OTA update.... I might Jizz My Pants...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is there right to produce the phone to their specs. If you don't like the software or their configuration, don't buy it. The marketplace rules here. When/if enough people care about this issue (and I hate to say it, but people like us are a vocal minority in the large picture of phone buyers), then it will change. So long as you voluntarily pay the money, don't expect any them to do any different. Did they not say exactly that in regards to this issue? I Believe the quote was something to effect of 'buy a different phone if you want to load custom roms.'

sp1kez said:
I still cannot believe how cell companies are able to get away with their behavior in the US, if you've ever been overseas you'd see what I'm talking about.
Phone companies there are EAGER to get your business so they will allow you to use any phone on their network, as long as the frequency of the radio is compatible.
For example (using US companies: Sprint would allow you to take the droid X on their network just to have your business
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.

Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
Most consumers in the U.S. are not willing to pay full price for these phones. We 'demand' a subsidized phone cost (ie, $199.00 for a $600.00 Droid X).
Expect more of the same until people are willing to pay the full cost of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd pay the full price of the phone up front if that meant no contract + lower monthly bill. However none of the major US carriers offer that option except for t-mobile.

Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App

xmunk said:
Wrong can buy full price without a contRact on verizon
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Verizon won't give you a lower monthly bill...

derek4484 said:
I have to disagree here. It is not their right to lock the phone down so severely so as to dictate to me that the only OS I can run on the phone has to come directly from them and be digitally signed by them.
Dell doesnt tell me what OS I can run on my computer. And they sure as hell dont have the right to lock it down so that the only OS and only updates must come from them, thats ILLEGAL! And is on phones too, after all, they are just mini computers now. All it will take is one legal challenge to this and it will stop. I'm waiting to hear the FCC's stance on this (of course those crooks are all in ATT and VZW back pockets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is with people and this stupid mental disorder of "get the government involved," crap, specifically when you cite the wrong bureaucracy shows that you're a moron.
As the ruling has said, what happens on the phone once you jailbreak it, as long as it is received legally, there is no crime committed, preventing you from jail breaking is not illegal and never should be, seriously you have to be a retard if you believe the government should be involved in stopping how programs are coded and locked, if Verizon doesn't want you to be tethering without you paying them for that, that is THEIR right, it's their property.

To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
Moto wasn't forced upon you. You bought the phone with a locked bootloader and Motoblur installed! Buying the phone was your decision!
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
Just because Motorola hasn't unlocked the bootloader in what is your timeframe doesn't constitute you being duped! Once again, you bought the phone knowing it had a locked bootloader and Motoblur!
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
No salesperson tried to prevent me buying mine. In fact, to the contrary, they gave me all the options. I, like you, chose to purchase the Atrix! A power user doesn't need the sales persons help to choose what they want!
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
Dare I say it again..............you bought the phone knowing the bootloader was locked and Motoblur was on it! Everyone who has bought the Atrix and considers themselves a power user knows/knew the same things
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
Sell your Atrix..........take your *****ing to another forum............and on your way out, don't let the doorknob hit ya where the good lord split ya!
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS WHINE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT A PRODUCT THEY BOUGHT KNOWING IT WASN'T WHAT THEY WANTED <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above for my response to this!

*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Actually, motorola explicitly stated they were going to unlock the bootloader from near the beginning - which was the reason I bought the phone. They used it as a selling point and they haven't addressed it at all...probably hoping it would be forgotten. Same thing with it being called a 4G phone, but it couldn't even attain 3G speeds up. They sold people on the idea that it would have the ability to access the fastest network speeds and people knew it didn't but still bought it. People *****ed, and now everyone (including your ungratefulness), got what they were told they were paying for.
A sales person may have not kept you, but it does happen more than in your case. As a matter of fact it happens fairly regularly. Usually a sales rep will lean towards one phone instead of another simply due to personal preference.
It is a great phone and great hardware without the ability to use it. This is a developers forum. If you don't want the ability to develop on this phone completely, why are you here? So you can seem all high and mighty? Maybe you're the one in the wrong forum or maybe you should just have a couple pitchers at a pub?
As far as a few sales not hurting it, that's not true at all. These phones aren't exactly flying off the shelves. As a matter of fact, this phone has a higher return rate than almost other smartphones. A returned phone costs much more overall than just not making a sale in the first place. The reason why they are going to do that is only because enough people are pissed about it that their current sales are hurting. They didn't spend money hiring people and R&D to create a locked bootloader if they didn't originally plan on keeping it locked for good.
You guys can tell people not to say anything or *****, but at the end of the day, you'll be the ones reaping the benefits of the people who did.

roharia said:
*****ing about it will not accomplish anything and a large company such as Motorola wont be hurt by a few sales and honestly if I were your Facebook friend I would still buy this gadget, you know why? Its a great phone and there is still a chance that its bootloader will be unlocked eventually...just be patient.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*****ing won't, but asking the right questions and showing that you are not the only one who is after this definitely gets some attention.
Kane4fire,
I really like your passion, it's just about making sure your message is heard and that you don't look like a troll.
Please look at some of the work I've been doing with Motorola, it's slow going but we are getting noticed.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/motorola-bootloader/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/motorola-promises-unlocked-bootloaders-for-future-android-phones/
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
Cheers,
Irwin

Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
I personally know for a fact that at least in a small regional area they haven't done well with the XOOM and Atrix AT ALL and much of it actually has to do with Blur and it's problems with memory usage, battery life, and general lack of UI polish. I am sure that once the figures are out it will reflect how poorly they have been doing. It's a corporation and money is their motivator/reason for existence. I am sure if they hurt enough they will bow.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. I haven't ceased any of my activities since that PR mumbo jumbo they gave me.
I have a few contacts within Motorola that are being difficult to get a hold of, so I keep sending emails, I keep calling (international calls for me), I keep my facebook group going, I keep tweeting and spreading as far as I can.
I hope you also have similar luck in spreading the word and getting people to rally to the cause, just make sure not to dilute the message too much or get people opposed to you.
Good luck my friend, it's good to see the fire burns strong for you.

kane4fire said:
Irwin, I have been seeing a lot of your work and group and etc. Personally, I'm not 100% convinced on them unlocking the bootloader for the Atrix since all the articles stated 'late 2011 releases' and the Atrix is early 2011.
The whole point of my post was for people who do post things and have some sort of a following to actually do something and post up as well on their own avenues. If you lose your dog, you don't just tell one or two people, you tell everyone and everything you can and it creates an exponential chain of people who end up knowing about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.

kane4fire said:
Well, my mistake. I haven't been able to sleep. Either way, their choice of wording still doesn't mean they will actually provide the unlock since they have to convince the carrier to unlock it. I don't know what their terms were with AT&T, but why would they need permission to unlock a bootloader when it has nothing to do with the cellular network? AT&T is obviously going to say no on the matter since it means less possible anything for them to deal with. Then again I don't know. Maybe it was apart of the deal that they would lock the bootloader as a package to offer the phone on a particular network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Edit: I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice of Motorola to package a completely open bootloader with the Gingerbread update. It would.

This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.

chromedome00 said:
This absolutely does have something to do with AT&T. The AT&T Atrix was "built" for AT&T. There are contractual agreements in place.
So if AT&T says no, that is the answer. If you want a phone with an unlocked bootloader (in this case) then you need to buy one that will be unlocked - either the carrier approved it, or maybe we see an unlocked phone that is not tied to a carrier.
If you buy an AT&T (or other carrier) branded phone, then you are going to be stuck with that carriers decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App

I am lost......if bloatware and motoblur are the issues you have with the phone why not just get rid of or freeze the bloatware and try a different launcher or Ginger/grey blur? I haven't had to deal with motoblur for a while.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

kane4fire said:
To Motorola and for the rest of us,
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
I bought this phone originally because I read that the bootloader would be unlocked and I assumed fairly soon after. I, like most people, do not like motoblur. It is a slow, bloated, unfriendly interface that was forced upon me. Sadly, it is still forced upon me. So now that I thought I'd hold out and thought we'd get the keys, we didn't and it's too late to return this phone that had great promise.
What do I do now since I was dupped? I take away potential customers from Motorola. I've already convinced 3 of my friends not to get any of your phones and also a XOOM and who knows how many people they will tell my recommendations to?
You guys waste so much money on marketing and creating an image. This thing was suppose to blur the lines between computer and phone and you yourself are the ones who crippled that from being possible. Do you know what happens when you go to a sales agent at AT&T? They don't recommend the Atrix; a power user/person with knowledge of smartphones denies the customer from even considering it an option. Why would they do that? Because they know they can sell another phone that THEY like (easier to sell when you like it yourself) and they know the user won't come back and return against them, since they are paid commission.
Also, consider the demographic that probably bought this phone or considered it. They more than likely aren't the people who click 'Allow' when a website asks if it can install malware - those people bought iPhone's. The dual core CPU and webtop experience attracted the nerdier group - the power users and dev's - the exact people who don't want the limitations you put.
I know my post probably won't get heard by anyone important at moto but I know some of us owners/users/sympathizers will read this. The only thing I can hope is that we use the great tool we have and blog/tweet/status update/tell others. They won't listen to us, but they will listen to money. Take it away from them and they will listen.
FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS BUY MOTO! <---My facebook status and you should make it yours too!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Tylerjd said:
You say that, but then again there are many other Android phones on AT&T that /do/ have an unlocked bootloader. Captivate, Aria, Inspire, galaxy tab and most likely the Infuse. So again, maybe AT&T doesn't care and its up to the manufacturers.
Sent from my screaming Atrix *4G* using the XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^ If Moto scapegoats AT&T over this, it would not be good for business.

knigitz said:
Not to doubt your ability to read and understand the English language, but here is the actual quote:
“Motorola will enable an unlockable/relockable bootloader, currently found on Motorola Xoom, in future software releases where carrier and operator partners will allow it,” Motorola said in a statement provided to Wired.com. “It is our intention to include the unlockable/relockable bootloader in software releases starting in late 2011.”
Is the Atrix a software release? No. Maybe they will be pushing OTA updates starting in late 2011 which will allow for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's rumored that Moto will be the manufacturer for the next generation Google Nexus branded device, which is supposedly to be released ~Q4 2011. Maybe this is what they are referring to. Who knows. All I do know is that quote from moto didn't say anything about the Atrix.
nucentury08 said:
For one you and hackers on here kill me most brands like moto don't make phone people to replace a bootloarer that's not in there mind in the board meeting.That being said they built a phone that a normal person can pick up and download apps from marketplace from its like buying a new 2011 car getting it home and dropping the motor and tranny the new car is ment to drive of the lot now im not saying I want my atrix bootloader locked cause I don't and my G2x is not unlocked but you can't strike against a large company like moto your little voices still mean nothing do them unless where on there board they care less.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy ****. Longest, most rambling sentence I've ever seen.

Other att phones have locked bootloaders but they where easily exploited. Htc and the other manufacturers are making them harder and harder to unlock. Att most likely is in contract with moto to keep it locked. With it locked they have more chances of making more money off the bloatware.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

knigitz said:
Neither you or any other Atrix owner is entitled to an unlocked bootloader from Motorola. Just saying: You're not. At the same time, you're well within your rights to crack it yourself, or just get a different phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.

jbe4 said:
yeah, why should people who plunk down hundreds of dollars be able to do what they want with something they own?
the nerve of some people wanting to use their devices as they see fit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
As for kane's comment about motorola saying they'd unlock the bootloader from "near the beginning".... there was never such a statement that i've seen. I've seen stuff on the Motorola Owners Forum stating that a possible bootloader solution was being looked into... but nothing more than that. period.

elementaldragon said:
You pay for the product, not the ability to tweak it to your heart's content. You don't see a $200 iPhone coming readily available to modify, do you? No. You have to jailbreak it first, if there's a jailbreak available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
by paying for the product I've paid to do what I want with it - If I want to use it as a way of leveling a kitchen chair thats my prerogative.
I think its just as patently offensive that Apple does it too
regardless, Android was/is billed as the Open Source alternative specifically to address the nonsense that is the itunes store and the draconian oversight of overbearing manufacturers. To have individual manufacturers go against the spirit of what google was/is trying to accomplish when they released AndroidOS seems just a bit ridiculous, dont you think?

http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/0...sh-over-transformer-primes-locked-bootloader/
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium

Wrong forum, that is about the new transformer prime, not the original transformer

Yea I know just wanted anyone know who might want to get the prime... also for future products/updates they might release..
sent from epic 4g

Original Transformer also has locked bootloader. Just lucky for most of us the key was leaked.

Nullinvoid said:
Wrong forum, that is about the new transformer prime, not the original transformer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its very pertinent here.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

However the Prime forums are in a bit of an uproar about it.
As I am opposed to locked/encrypted bootloaders I post this link so we may all let Asus know that we don't want to see any more of encrypted bootloaders.

Tweeted as requested! Seems prime has more enthusiasts than we do right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

God I really hate these internet mediastorm campaigns full of spotty teenagers complaining about crap like this and starting Facebook petitions and all to try and change corporate decisions. They flood blogs and news sites will their crap.
Go buy an Xoom if it really bothers you that much.
Comments like this really are embarrassing (not for Asus, but the whole human race).
Jermiah Fortier
Unlock this Bootloader on the prime you scumbags.
I bought this device and I demand I be allowed to use it. I will be advising everyone that I know is in the market for a tablet to avoid Asus until something is done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Someone want to tell him he can already USE it..... He makes it sound like a power-on password. If anything unlocking the bootloader will REDUCE functionality, as it would almost certainly mean you would no longer have a secure device that could rent content, any unlocking would remove DRM keys.
Both my devices are rooted with unlocked bootloaders, however I don't DEMAND it, I research the products and buy the ones that allow it (or have leaked keys). Had the Asus not had the bootloader keys leaked, I would have bought something else (Xoom for eample). Let market forces dictate, not dumb Facebook and mediastorm bullcrap.

Got to love our first world problems. I'd much rather worry about a locked bootloader digital device then where im going to get my next meal or whether we have fresh water for the children . Send all these whining kids to south Africa or the Philippines, mayybe have them digging fighting holes in Afghanistan or building ffp 's... that will add some perspective to their "PROBLEMS"
Carry on
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App

theraffman said:
Got to love our first world problems. I'd much rather worry about a locked bootloader digital device then where im going to get my next meal or whether we have fresh water for the children . Send all these whining kids to south Africa or the Philippines, mayybe have them digging fighting holes in Afghanistan or building ffp 's... that will add some perspective to their "PROBLEMS"
Carry on
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Spot on. My sentiments exactly. It's interesting this form of internet crybaby attitude seems to be almost entirely American of origin.

CrazyPeter said:
Spot on. My sentiments exactly. It's interesting this form of internet crybaby attitude seems to be almost entirely American of origin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, methinks mommy and daddy didnt ever tell these idiots 'no'.
However, whilst i dont really appreciate people whingeining so much about this, no doubt the prime will get its leaked bootloader key sometime soon. Patience it seems is fast becoming a uncommon virtue.
The thing that bugs me about this whole bootloader thing is that pure Android devices like the Nexus range dont have this and google have said they dont approve of it but cant do anything about what other manufacturers do in this regard.

Some of the comments are a bit stupid and obviously by people who dont even know what they are talking about .
Regardless now anyway as Asus have announced they will provide an unlocking tool.
This is also good for TF101 users on SBKv2 as im damn sure they will also allow unlocking this too.
Great result i think !!

This is from engadget
"Lastly, ASUS explains that the locked bootloader is essential for access to content from Google's video market thanks to DRM restrictions, but it promises an unlock utility is in the work for those who want it."
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/03/ice-cream-sandwich-coming-to-the-transformer-prime-january-12th/

mllk said:
This is from engadget
"Lastly, ASUS explains that the locked bootloader is essential for access to content from Google's video market thanks to DRM restrictions, but it promises an unlock utility is in the work for those who want it."
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/03/ice-cream-sandwich-coming-to-the-transformer-prime-january-12th/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is more to the story than what was published here. It appears that along with the unlocked bootloader, will come the inability to use some DRM protected audio and video content. It will be a trade off.

Rumbleweed said:
There is more to the story than what was published here. It appears that along with the unlocked bootloader, will come the inability to use some DRM protected audio and video content. It will be a trade off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the same internet crybabies will be launching a campaign to try and shame Asus into allowing them to have a unlocked bootloader AND be able to rip the DRM from video rentals, they will also force them to make the next Asus Transformer 3 also have an inbuilt coffee maker and toenail clipping facility.
I hate how the internet and social media gives a vocal minority an overinflated ego that allows them to blackmail companies to conform to their whims.

Well, you can call me crybaby, but I'm happy with the result of this campaign. You seem to be crying much more that all of us so called "crybabies" now in this thread. If you don't approve - no need to call people names. And if we all allow in silence for devices to be more and more locked one day we wouldn't have a choice to buy sth else because all of them would be locked.

Magnesus said:
Original Transformer also has locked bootloader. Just lucky for most of us the key was leaked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for OT, but when was the key leaked? I am new to the Tf101 and didn't here a Word about that. Could you post a link to confirm that, or sth. like that?

Magnesus said:
Well, you can call me crybaby, but I'm happy with the result of this campaign. You seem to be crying much more that all of us so called "crybabies" now in this thread. If you don't approve - no need to call people names. And if we all allow in silence for devices to be more and more locked one day we wouldn't have a choice to buy sth else because all of them would be locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I have not felt the need to engineer a social media ****storm like you lot have arranged, where a vocal minority are pretending to be MUCH louder than they actually are.
If you really dislike locked bootloaders, then Tegra2 and Tegra3 platforms are not for you, as they are ALL locked using the same 128bit AES key, as it's part of the NVidia chipset.
The only tablet I am aware of that uses Tegra2 that allows unlocking is the Xoom, if you feel that strongly, don't buy Asus, but Xoom instead.

im sorry but im sure the group of people who want their devices unlocked is not a small percentage from the research ive done on android a good half of android owners are likely rooted.
the people who dont root are usually, not always but usually the people who dont know how or what it is. for your average joe user a locked bootloader means nothing now at least,(if we allow manufacturers to continue to take administrator rights away from the owner the owner will have no control what runs or doesnt run on their device). most users who are technically knowledged in computers are against locked bootloaders even if they dnt feel rooting is neccessary with asus' device(they did a good job at adding the features that were lacking due to a locked device)
ANYONE who sticks up for locked bootloaders on any computer or personal device doesnt have a clue...manufacturers are taking away your rights to do whatever you want with your device. there has already been federal judges state that changing software on a device should not void a warranty. if the tools that should be available are available then software problems can be fixed by the consumer but the manufacturer would lose money from people that would just maintain and repair their devices themselves. im sorry but it is VERY VERYimprobable that software of anykind can damage hardware. i dont think it can at all unless the tools to completely wipe a device and reload its software are non existent.
these manufacturers are only concerned with money not the customers at all. these decisions are made with greed as the driving factor.
and obviously the community that wants the rights to their devices must not be small or asud would have paid no attention....and htc who is now unlocking their devices heard that communities requests as well.
and very simple with a locked bootloader the manufacturer can put any tracking, or spyware on the device they want and the users wouldnt even know. that alone is enough to say no....i do agree with those who say if you want an unlocked device the buy a different tablet and i agree, and i think if that happened then companies like asus sales would definetly fall and companies would see and react to it. i believe this is one way to get manufacturers to listen to the community.
but when i bought my transformer i was told by commercials the salesman, and the android specifications and just the fact its open source, that my device was open sourced and developer freindly. an open source software that run on a locked device is just an oxymoron i guess that the word anyway.
i do feel honestly i was mislead to a degree and in the future i will not purchase a device until i confirm i get full administratir rights to my device. and i hope all other android users do the same..i absolutely love my asus and i would hate to have to make my choice on rights to do what i want with my device rather than the specs and quality of the device.
any device that has files i cant see change or remove is not truly my device its whoever has controll of it letting me use what they deem is ok.
and the low blow to americans was uncalled for but id have to say we are raised from birth believing we have the right to freedom and that includes our devices, and i really dontr think thats wrong what i do believe is wrong is anyone who accepts their freedoms being taken from them and then stcking up for the one who is taking those freedoms away. talk about silly
i really have no intentions of upsetting anyone with this and it is a general statement not directed to anyone other than asus really, im just stating my opinion and i believe thats another right we have. no one has to agree with me and i dont expect them to EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION. without being attacked for it

Sure enough Asus came through with the requests!

I am going to begin a bounty to all of our devs of $100 to whomever can get a working unlocked bootloader for the Verizon 4GLTE P605V Samsung Galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. It's complete nonsense that going as far back as far as April (the first post I found searching for this) that there isn't a solution.... If you own this tablet variant as well, please jump on board.

Most devs for the 10.1 2014 have moved to the pro version. So this may be really hard to get. if you look at the unlocked versions there is little to no support for them right now as well.
Sent from my T-Mobile HTC One M8

All the Verizon/Samsung locked bootloaders have been unlockable to date as well as the AT&T varieties. Check the S4, Note 3 and S5 threads.

KennyG123 said:
All the Verizon/Samsung locked bootloaders have been unlockable to date as well as the AT&T varieties. Check the S4, Note 3 and S5 threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really care about the S4, my Note 3 is already unlocked, and could care less about the S5 as well. What I AM concerned with is getting my 10.1 2014 Verizon edition unlocked so I can actually get TWRP on it an put on custom ROM's. For a forum filled with lots of experts and geniuses, no one seems to want to take any time or make any effort. I am literally begging! Using any version of Odin has failed trying to get TWRP on my tablet. All the ROMs I have looked at say to install that as a prerequisite. So what is a guy to do? Should I just put a round from my .45 through it and call it a day? I am outside the 14 day return window now with Verizon, so unless someone can give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong, then I am royally screwed..........

Don_Pachuco said:
I don't really care about the S4, my Note 3 is already unlocked, and could care less about the S5 as well. What I AM concerned with is getting my 10.1 2014 Verizon edition unlocked so I can actually get TWRP on it an put on custom ROM's. For a forum filled with lots of experts and geniuses, no one seems to want to take any time or make any effort. I am literally begging! Using any version of Odin has failed trying to get TWRP on my tablet. All the ROMs I have looked at say to install that as a prerequisite. So what is a guy to do? Should I just put a round from my .45 through it and call it a day? I am outside the 14 day return window now with Verizon, so unless someone can give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong, then I am royally screwed..........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are missing the point. Bootloaders are not a simple security hack. They are the proprietary coding that allows the device to boot. There is NO decompiling, sorting through code, figuring out the lock and then unlocking it. There needs to be an exploit to get in and change it. Which means there is a 99% chance the wrong exploit attempt will brick the device...an not the "brick" all these people talk about mistakenly on this site...a REAL brick...dead paperweight. Think that it is an issue with this sites "geniuses" not wanting to do it? Maybe you would understand better if you blindfolded yourself and tried to assemble a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle....only you get an electric shock with every wrong piece you play.
I mentioned the other devices not to see if you "care"...it is to let you know the same method is employed to lock those as your tablet and they are just as popular with the "geniuses" that genuinely want to unlock the bootloader. AND have large bounties on them.
As to what are you supposed to do? Research next time. Buy products from a carrier that does not lock down their devices or buy a device that is not a commercial push to the military and corporate so that Verizon wants it locked down tight for more sales and contracts. Or continue to hold your breath throwing this tantrum you seem to be doing. Or...I don't know...use the tablet as it was designed to be used when sold and seems to work fine for the millions of customers who know nothing of XDA or rooting.

KennyG123 said:
You are missing the point. Bootloaders are not a simple security hack. They are the proprietary coding that allows the device to boot. There is NO decompiling, sorting through code, figuring out the lock and then unlocking it. There needs to be an exploit to get in and change it. Which means there is a 99% chance the wrong exploit attempt will brick the device...an not the "brick" all these people talk about mistakenly on this site...a REAL brick...dead paperweight. Think that it is an issue with this sites "geniuses" not wanting to do it? Maybe you would understand better if you blindfolded yourself and tried to assemble a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle....only you get an electric shock with every wrong piece you play.
I mentioned the other devices not to see if you "care"...it is to let you know the same method is employed to lock those as your tablet and they are just as popular with the "geniuses" that genuinely want to unlock the bootloader. AND have large bounties on them.
As to what are you supposed to do? Research next time. Buy products from a carrier that does not lock down their devices or buy a device that is not a commercial push to the military and corporate so that Verizon wants it locked down tight for more sales and contracts. Or continue to hold your breath throwing this tantrum you seem to be doing. Or...I don't know...use the tablet as it was designed to be used when sold and seems to work fine for the millions of customers who know nothing of XDA or rooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to say that in reading text, it is generally hard to understand the tone of the text. While I wasn't throwing a tantrum, the tone of your reply is pretty unmistakable. When someone comes here genuinely looking for help and assistance with a device, is it a general practice to publicly belittle and berate them? As to my bounty, I started off low to see if others would jump on board or not. As to my carrier, I have been with Verizon from day one, get a rather large corporate discount from them on devices and accessories, and have 6 lines through them, so why just to get this tablet to do what I want it to, would I change carriers? Every device that I have had in the 'smart'phone era has been Verizon, and someone has found a way to unlock them. So I apologize if I came of looking like a prick, as that was not at all my intention. I would gladly personally pay up to $100.00 if someone could help. It is very frustrating to only be able to do half of what I want to achieve with my tablet. I'm as far as I personally can go on it. If anyone was offended by my wording, again, I am sorry for that. BTW, I changed the avatar that was only taken offense to after my post. Have a happy Sunday Funday! I know I will as I am already on bloody Mary number 4 here.

Don_Pachuco said:
I would have to say that in reading text, it is generally hard to understand the tone of the text. While I wasnt throwing a tantrum, the tone of your reply is pretty unmistakable. When someone comes here genuinely looking for help and assistance with a device, is it a general practice to publicly belittle and berate them? As to my bounty, I started off low to see if others would jump on board or not. As to my carrier, I have been with Verizon from day one, get a rather large corporate discount from them on devices and accessories, and have 6 lines through them, so why just to get this tablet to do what I want it to, would I change carriers? Every device that I have had in the smartphone era has been Verizon, and someone has found a way to unlock them. So I apologize if I came of looking like a prick, as that was not at all my intention. I would gladly personally pay up to $100.00 if someone could help. It is very frustrating to only be able to do half of what I want to achieve with my tablet. Im as far as I personally can go on it. If anyone was offended by my wording, again, I am sorry for that. BTW, I changed the avatar that was only taken offense to after my post. Have a happy Sunday Funday! I know I will as I am already on bloody Mary number 4 here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phrase that asks if you should put a bullet into your tablet certainly sounded like a bit of a tantrum. Sorry if I somehow misconstrued that. Then also sounding like you were belittling XDA developers because they did not unlock the bootloader yet.. Sounded a bit entitled. There are devices years old that have never been unlocked. I have done my best to explain why there should never be a time limit or expectations of the bootloader ever being unlocked yet you also shot that down as selfishly exclaiming you did not care about those examples and were only concerned about what matters to you. Did I leave anything out? Sorry if I somehow misinterpreted any of that. Sounds like you need to start making a decision as to what is more important to you, your corporate discount or an unlocked bootloader. Have your bounty but I already explained older Verizon devices with the same locked bootloaders has stumped the security geniuses so far.

$100
$100.00

$150.00?

The devs were never really all that involved with this tablet. It is highly unlikely they will unlock the Verizon version unless they figure out the other Samsung products. Even if they would unlock the tablet you my not get any devs that are willing to port their Roms over to the Verizon version.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Ok, I give up

Don_Pachuco said:
Ok, I give up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Say my friend..don't give up There are to many smart people at this forum... (and other forums) Trust me just have to be patient lol.. I am in the same boat some one will figure this out..

OK, I have a SM-P605v with a broken LCD (not the screen itself, but the display is discolored and not displaying correctly). It was previously Rooted and I have gotten screen emulators working when hooked up to my laptop. I would be willing to donate this to any Dev willing to work on the exploit. If there is a risk of bricking the device, then rest assured it's no biggie since the screen is bad on it. Please PM me if you are interested.

It's been a while now, anyone figure it out yet?....................................................

Has anyone tried the unlock script for the note 3 and note 4?
Here is the link to note 3.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...l/official-note-3-verizon-bootloader-t3359370

I just got a SM-P605 that is unlocked. Once I figure out where the kernal came from perhaps I can be of help here. I really want to get this thing rooted and connected with my carrier. I had had a SM-P600, but it was smashed and could not be repaired. That's why I bought this tablet. Otherwise this P605 is totally stock and runs like a very well behaved powerhouse should.
Rob

i looked at this page it says u need root to use this .
Nappyloxs said:
Has anyone tried the unlock script for the note 3 and note 4?
Here is the link to note 3.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...l/official-note-3-verizon-bootloader-t3359370
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but dont you need a unlocked bootloader to get root ?

No you don't need unlocked bootloader to root. I think I used towel root years ago to root this tablet.

Link200 said:
The devs were never really all that involved with this tablet. It is highly unlikely they will unlock the Verizon version unless they figure out the other Samsung products. Even if they would unlock the tablet you my not get any devs that are willing to port their Roms over to the Verizon version.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know I really loved my SM-P600, but it was badly damaged and I don't know how or where to order in the left speaker, on/off switch from. So got really frustrated advanced ordered an SM-P605v instead and was able to get one that has an unlocked boatloader. I've not rooted it yet, or mounted TWRP on it. I may not root it though I'd like to. Even so, I'm looking into it and while, though I'm extremely happy with it,I may eventually root it.
I've explored a lot of options so far and none of them, so far, work for an SM-P605v running Android 5.1.1.
I'll get back with you about a week from now.
By the way, this tablet, and the SGN Pro are still much more powerful and capable than the Surface Pro or IPad Pro. This, even though they are getting a little older.
By the way,I spoke to a friend of mine who owns the large IPad Pro today. Apple hasn't optimised the Home screen yet, even after all these months. You'd think they'd have done better by their consumer base by now.
Even so, I'm so pleased with the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1(2014), both with the SM-P600, and the SM-P605. Unless Samsung releases a Tab A that has an S Pen and 32 gigs memory, or releases a substantial upgrade to the SM-P600,SM-P605, and SM-P607, or puts out a new SGN in the series with 64 our 128gigs internal, I'm not open to trading my tablet in. It'll be over my cold, dead body.

This whole thing just died from no interest other than from me, huh?

https://twitter.com/Motorola/status/607934001500852224 so yeah, fellow Turbo owners. Lets blow this up tonight and show we arent a tiny fragment of Moto users. Or not. The reality is we need to make our voices heard. Maybe Moto will listen. Probably not. But hey, its live. Might be fun.

Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.

I'm guessing that the OP means an unlocked bootloader and root access for custom ROMs, that kind of stock boring like stuffs...

SirBindy said:
Stock is... stock. It's the closest thing to vanilla android without buying a nexus, which is what I wanted.
If you wanted something more exciting, you should've bought a more exciting phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx. The Turbo owners that dont have the same mentality perhaps would agree. it blows to be stuck if you want more than that out of android. isnt that what android is supposed to be? open, free?
@Wynnded is hitting the nail on the head. best hardware ive owned. the software is my qualm.

here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
edit: okay, so perhaps i should have said no more Moto on VZW, as I cannot stand the thought of not having their antennae quality..

#pacifists

Easy fix
What they should do is allow you to opt out of manufacturer warranty and insurance in trade for unlocks. I would happily give those things up as I have such a rare need for them especially in the days of glass screen protectors and repair options

kitcostantino said:
here is the reality, though: Bootloader unlock isnt allowed due to Verizon not wanting to give support (and replacements) once the inexperienced do something dumb. (flash wrong device files, delete partitions that are necessary, etc). while i can understand that angle, i, and most people that frequent this site, am/are knowledgeable enough to not end up with a brick, and also, in that event, would never turn to VZW or Moto for help, as they are useless. Aesthetically, this phone is great. Hardware (minus those pesky qfuses) this is a great device. i love the Turbo. Having no justifiable reason for bootloader unlock to be disallowed is just bad business. our very small, in representation and subsequent consideration group accepts these practices. i for one, will buy no more Moto devices, period after this one, unless they remember what a developer edition Droid is. if i have to buy a license, or void my warranty, so be it. Both Verizon and Moto should care about the impact to the brand.
Want to help? Cool. Dont? also cool. Just remember, no one ever changed anything for the better sitting by complacently. #unlockthedroids
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but your qualms have been discussed IN LARGE with Verizon multiple times in the past. The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola. Hence why all their other devices outsize VZW are unlockable. Getting verbal with VZW or Moto will do literally nothing. You're not the first one to try and "change the world". Here's the simple break-down - VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD. They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out. The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.

I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
The short version is this, man. I didn't buy the Turbo. I was "upgraded" to it. (see above). Do I think i make a difference directly? nope. I think I am (and most of us here as well are) the kind of person who drives tech outlets to report new devices. I am the guy everyone I know asks first what to buy. Sure, my $100/month isnt much. Ultimately, I am a customer. You want my business or you dont. When I shelled out $700 for a Dev Edition, I had that in mind. I could have bought anything. I chose Moto. I chose Verizon because their network is superior. There always is a balance or tradeoff. Moto dev sucks? Cool. Next. HTC? Sony? Samsung? LG? We have no shortage of hardware. I can learn to live with Wifi. Hell, i don't answer my phone when it rings most of the time. As far as the hooplah about Nexus devices and Verizon, the one thing to look at is the fact that the Nexus 6 is completely unlockable and unfettered on VZW. We can thank google for that, though, i am sure. I would love a Nexus 6 at this point.
I may want bl unlock just a hair more than you, brother.

TechSavvy2 said:
Y the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy...... Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do. But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you. Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Small numbers can have big business impact. See social media. An act such as shaming on Twitter CAN have larger PR consequences, especially if other tech media take up the refrain.
Some businesses actually LOOK for alpha individuals (there's word I can't find right now) who help shape decisions of people in their social circle and they get freebies to plug that company. Some early YouTube "shopping stars" cashed in on that. Same concept.
Verizon may be huge and arrogant, but T-mobile is the young/hip crowd. If Verizon wants to change that perception -- perhaps if the T-mobile/Dish merger goes through and causes more competition -- then Verizon would consider some adjustments for a people like us who spread word of mouth to friends/relatives about what to buy/not to buy.
I am extremely surprised the Nexus 6 is not only allowed on Verizon (thank the FCC), but sold by Verizon (not sure why).

I had started typing and quoting in a douchebag fashion that reminded me of someone else. ( @LeoD you know what i mean)
Rotflmao!!
I had a difficult time keeping my coffee down while reading this.
On topic tho, I also believe we should not just go quietly into the night. Big changes are almost always started in small numbers. Thankfully.

The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering. If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.

TechSavvy2 said:
The locked bootloader has NOTHING to do with Motorola.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All Moto has to do is designate or sell a Developer Edition to comply with the agreement VZW and Moto have in regard to Bootloader Unlock. Well, and grow a pair against VZW and sell to all the other carriers. I bet they are kicking themselves for making any concessions for Verizon looking at the global sales of the Moto Maxx xt1225 versus the Droid Turbo.
TechSavvy2 said:
VERIZON WOULD RATHER NOT CARRY THE DEVICE AT ALL THAN ALLOW THE BOOTLOADER UNLOCKED ON THEIR NETWORK. PERIOD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NEXUS 6 what?
TechSavvy2 said:
They would also 100% rather you leave their network than unlock a device. They've made it very very very very very VERY clear. If you threaten to "unlock my bootloader or I'm gone!" they'll gladly sweep your a$$ right out the door and laugh at you the whole way out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Me and my $100/month *can* in fact go elsewhere. No big loss to their corporate dividends. Ultimately, I am their customer, and if they have no interest in retention (i have no delusion here, man), then my money will be spent elsewhere.
TechSavvy2 said:
The second thing you're misinterpreting is that while it may seem the rooting/roming crowd is large and lots of people on XDA etc, fact of the matter is that Verizon has 135,000,000 subscribers. 135 MILLION!! Guess how many actually want an unlocked bootloader? Lets say there are thousands!? Lets say 10,000 (very largely over-exaggerated number). That means that even if you manage to get to that 10,000 figure, you're thinking that 0.000074% of users are going to think they're verbal/angry enough to change the policy......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, if my intent were to speak sharply and pound my fist at them, there would be no reason to make such a small subset of people happy. My intent, however, is to plant seeds in the minds of others. In an average year, I advise somewhere in the realm of 20-30 people on phones, services, etc. The majority of our minute subset of users who want control of their device all likely do the same. Come to think of it, I would almost bet that out of our users, the majority are the go-to person that friends, family, colleagues, and often in my case, total strangers may be advised out of chance. Perhaps my $$ isn't worth that much. Our word of mouth, however, is taken by those ask for it to be valid.
Social media, also, is a beautiful tool for conveyance. Has a bit of a magnified result when trying to make others aware.
TechSavvy2 said:
Think again. Its partially why the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices were shunned away by VZW, and one (of the many) issues they had with the Galaxy Nexus. Also why they tried to not carry the Nexus 7 (remember that wonderful delay?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And despite all of that, the VZW Nexus 6 is unfettered, bootloader unlockable, and all.
TechSavvy2 said:
Don't get me wrong, I probably want unlocked bootloaders more than you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to doubt that one, man. lol.
TechSavvy2 said:
But don't buy devices from VZW expecting anything other than what the delivered software configuration will allow you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From earlier in the thread:
kitcostantino said:
Indeed. Unfortunately, I didn't buy this phone. Moto sent it as a replacement for my Dev Maxx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TechSavvy2 said:
Be thankful you were even given the option of a Nexus 6, it'll likely be the last unlockable device for another 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be ecstatic to have a Nexus 6 at this point. Again, I didn't choose the Turbo. Just got stuck with it.
The reality is, while we might be "lucky" to have the N6 as an option, we are the customers. We are not required to keep our service where it is. We are not required to endorse the manufacturers we do. I love Moto. Moto can play the game of appeasement with Verizon if it just has to be a "Developer Edition" to have bl unlock. A phone can be rebranded whatever "dev edition" with an accessory package and a decal and still hold to the terms of their agreement. Hell If there are so few of us, why not. Not like we are going to need anything from Verizon. (help? whats that?)
Not trying to be a richard, dude. Just reminded myself of an annoying ace person w/ all the quotes. @LeoD you feel me.
At the end of the day, it makes no real difference. I just know the products and services I will and will not be telling my mostly tech-inept friends, family, colleagues, to grab when, as they always do, they ask. Motos phones and Verizon's network have always been at the top of that list. All kings (and emperors) fall eventually from such lofty heights.
Edit #472:
Technogen said:
The problem is that VZW does not want to give customers anything that they could charge them for. Which really is odd that they don't let us buy a bootloader unlock, but odds are that it would be less revenue then what they make off selling tethering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would never have sold Developer Editions if this were their mentality. The things that are supported as rationale (if you dig a bit) are the sheer cost of support coupled with wanting us to only be so happy with our devices for so long. BL unlocked Turbo? I might keep it for 3 years like my OG (bl unlocked!) Droid. Tethering, while a way to generate extra revenue is $20/month. I never use it, but i have pushed 31 gb in a month before flashing roms. (man i miss msm8960dt builds) Users like us use incredible amounts of data. There is always a new rom, android version, etc.
Technogen said:
If it came with less drawbacks for them then positives they would let us unlock in a heartbeat. VZW is a full slave to the $ pound, and won't do a dang thing unless it gets them more $.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly think replacing idiots phones and playing sherpa for the tech inept is as costly as initially argued. The exclusiveness of the Dev Editions prevents the average Joe from buying them, saving countless labor hours, replacements, etc.
Technogen said:
Sadly I speak cooperate a bit better than I wish I did, so I bet it would end up being something like this to unlock your bootloader.
- Must not have unlimited data plan.
- Must have tethering data plan.
- Void any and all warranty
- $50 one time pay for Verizon device bootloader unlock.
- Device must be fully paid for.
- Must install custom Verizon recovery.
I'm sure they would think of something else to tack onto it so as to cost us more $.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only reason I am still with Vzw as of right now is unlimited. I havent changed my plan or gotten a subsidized phone since 2008 when i was forced into paying $30/month whether i wanted to or not. Warranty voiding is standard, unless Moto does, in fact, create Dev edition licenses.
The $50 fee is reasonable. I would even double it. VZW couldnt unlock bl and force a recovery on you, though. fastboot flash recovery.img
I get where youre going with it, though. Verizon (and any good corporation) does what is in its best interests first, customers, next.
I too speak corporate. You always have to have growth. The reality is you never want to lose any customers. Losing the crazies that don't pay their bill, cuss you out, demand things for free just because they are magical snowflakes is a totally justifiable loss. Losing the dorks like me that pay their bill, buy phones at full price, and refer others continuously is not such a good thing. Immediate effects? nope. But here i am posting on a site with (i imagine a couple) of like-minded people of the same or better skill-set.

If they sent you it as a replacement and you are unhappy with the device you should either terminate your contract as they moved outside of it by giving you a different device, or move to a different phone like the Nexus 6. You didn't get stuck with anything, you just choice to not fight for a different option.

after 2.5 months of bs with Moto "Support" i was in effect told that was as good as it gets. "Nexus is not an option" was said more times than I care to count. I even bought another phone to use in the meantime, just to be able to wait it out. Again, I have had no contract since the time before Android. Principle is the only thing that bound me to either VZW or Moto up until now.

OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.

Absolutely! the whole #unlockthedroids thing kind of fell flat. so did the petition. Then Mofo happened and everyone became content. Personally, I like the angle. I do see a couple of caveats within trying to get them to unlock subsidized phones that will likely prove insurmountable, but I do have a background in media production...
[ 5 year old watching Dad play Angry Birds...Mom calls dad into other room...Kid A picks up phone/starts to press buttons/is delighted when the UI responds. Accidentally stumbles into About Phone and presses Build Number 7 times. Mouths word/ "Developer?" ..
[scene fades, camera centered, zooming in to the word "Developer"...
[Camera tight, zoomed, scrolls through 10 calander years with glimpses of (Moto if ya ask me) phones and android wearables as double frame images spliced in, seasons, and typical holidays meshed in as well.] Kid A, now 15, runs out to the mailbox and grabs a box out of it.
Runs inside the house and pulls out components for Moto Ara-esque modular. Kid A assembles phone in a few swift movements. Then places it on the table. He says, "Wake up."
[The phone speeds through an intense boot ani for 3 seconds, then halts]
[The phone projects on the wall the homescreen, and is navigated by the hand the kids watch is on with swipes in the air. Kid A smiles sinisterly as he loads Angry Birds. ]
[Black screen with white text: "The Developers of tomorrow are taking their first steps in Android today. The possibilities are endless if these minds can grow these seeds into something more."
[secondary scene of 2020]
Kid A goes to mailbox, opens it up. Runs inside. Pulls out block phone. Swipes (manually) through screens. Tries to change colors, and a big lock and skull/crossbones pops up. NOT ALLOWED!! in bright red letters. kid throws phone in drawer. (with Turbo. lol)
#unleashtomorrow
#droiddoesntdev
ha ha. i am only partially kidding, man. this is doable.

hotrodwinston said:
OK so we have established that moto/vzw will be motivated to allow unlock when it would make them more money than it would cost them. What about if it gains them loads of excellent PR? What if we attacked it from the angle of "future developers" that are being held back because they can't unlock the device they have so they can learn mobile development and possibly change the world / develop the next big thing / improve themselves. And they can't afford the "dev" edition phones that they have to pay full price for. Maybe a social media campaign with a tagline like "unleash the developers of tomorrow " and #unleashtheDOT ? We all know a simple rallying cry can bring people in who may not fully understand but know enough to know it's a good thing and if it spreads far enough (and things that could help people - especially young people - learn tend to spread) they will have to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.

Technogen said:
The PR of it wouldn't matter to most people. Last time I saw something on it the average user has downloaded 6 apps to their phone, most pull run with what ever the phone has installed on it. So in the end people just won't care if devs can do something or not. This is just the sad reality of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't attack it from the standpoint of what devs can do but from the standpoint of young people learning - also people in general learning a new skill that could change their lives - this policy of locking things down is preventing people from learning and may be holding back the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.

I love vanilla android. I hated my S4 until I figured out how to put vanilla on it. The only reason why I decided to get a Turbo knowing that the bootloader was locked was because it's basically vanilla. I wish more phones were vanilla. So I won't be yelling at Motorola anytime soon, but that's just me.