Blind Camera Shootout - Your Opinions

Blind Camera Shootout - Your Opinions - G4 General

Hey,
i came across a blind shootout recently which featured 5 phones, one of them the LG G4.
The shootout was done by an android site and i will name the site after i post the results (i guess one or the other might know where it was from or might find it after a research - please don't give away clues or spoilers in that case).
I would simply like anyone who is interested to download the pix in the link below, compare them and share your thoughts about which phone takes the best pix in your opinion.
5 different pix were taken with each of the 5 phones (Phones, or to be more precise the Cameras are simply named A, B, C, D, and E).
For better comparison each folder contains the same picture taken with the different phones.
I would greatly appreciate it if you let me know which camera you think took the best photos and/or why.
As I said the LG G4 is one of the phones, I'll name the other 4 phones (all top ranked cams on DxOMark by the way) along with the solution on monday to give us all some time to view the pix and discuss.
I hope many will participate
Here's the link:
Blind Camera Shootout Files
Greetz,
vercetti.

Nice of you to do this, but you are not the only one who reads PA tests... NHF but you could've simply put a link of the blind shootout...
If i'm wrong i'm sorry...

I think we all already know which phone in all of the world takes the best photos, or we wouldn't be in this thread in the first place!

hey guys,
i didn't put the link in (yet) because it renders the comparison useless due to the posted solution of which camera took which photos. viewing pictures without knowing which camera took them is simply more objective...
and i posted it in the LG G4 section for a reason: i think the pix it took in this test shoot are much worse than most of the other cams and i was just wondering if you would also name one of the other 4 cams as your best shooter in this test - this only makes sense if you don't know which cam took which pictures (the reason why i didn't post the original link yet).
I'm not an owner of an LG G4 but I'm considering getting one since its camera has been praised so much (especcially manual mode + raw). The results of this shootout surprised me though.
Maybe it's just because of its weak auto mode (I'm sure all test shots were taken on auto mode on each camera). The G4's auto mode has been criticized by quite some people. I just don't understand why the G4 did so badly in this shootout.
Check the pix in the download link i provided in my first post and tell me which cam took the best pix in your opinion? A, B, C, D or E?
greetz,
vercetti.

I have used every mobile phone with a great camera, and the only one even close to the G4 is the camera is the GS6 - you have to tweak a couple of things to get all of the performance, though

Tweak a couple of things on GS6 or G4 (to get better results)?
If G4 - which tweaks are you thinking of?
Thx for your input.
v.

vercetti said:
I would simply like anyone who is interested to download the pix in the link below, compare them and share your thoughts about which phone takes the best pix in your opinion.
5 different pix were taken with each of the 5 phones (Phones, or to be more precise the Cameras are simply named A, B, C, D, and E).
For better comparison each folder contains the same picture taken with the different phones.
I would greatly appreciate it if you let me know which camera you think took the best photos and/or why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cannot expect to understand strengths and weaknesses of 5 different devices with a sample size of 5 (!)
The photo can change if you point the camera at a different angle.
if you want to know what the G4 can do and how good its camera is go through the photo samples thread. Look at hundreds of photos under different lighting conditions. Understand the features the G4 camera brings over the competition.
As I said the LG G4 is one of the phones, I'll name the other 4 phones (all top ranked cams on DxOMark by the way) along with the solution on monday to give us all some time to view the pix and discuss.
I hope many will participate
Here's the link:
Blind Camera Shootout Files
Greetz,
vercetti.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem i have with the site you've sourced these from is they do not include exifs in any of their test shots and neither are thier sample shots in full resolution. That is a double fail in my book.
I realise the samples you provided are indeed full resolution but without exifs.

Thx for your answer One Twelve,
indeed 5 samples is very small, but i think if one cam produces 5 good pix while another one does not, that does indicate a difference (of course changing angle/direction will result in different exposure, focus etc. but don't forget, in a test like this all cams undergo these limitations and so if one does better than the other that sort of proves a point i think).
Yes, I've viewed every pic in the sample photo thread (not only on xda but also on other boards) and some are just incredibly good! Again, i have no doubt that the G4 is capable of the best results but usually only when shooting in manual mode and using raw format to process them later and get even better results.
Yes, the shots were stripped of exif data, only the resolution remained in there (was not done by me, i took them just how they were in the test).
The exif was surely stripped to not give away camera model/name.
My favorite Cams in this test were A and E. I thought B, C, and D had very much less detail and sometimes blurry or washed out and less contrast.
The contenders in this shootout were:
Nexus 6P
Motorola X Play
LG G4
Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
Sony Xperia Z5
I'll post the results later on today as I promised.
Greetz,
v.

vercetti said:
Thx for your answer One Twelve,
indeed 5 samples is very small, but i think if one cam produces 5 good pix while another one does not, that does indicate a difference (of course changing angle/direction will result in different exposure, focus etc. but don't forget, in a test like this all cams undergo these limitations and so if one does better than the other that sort of proves a point i think).
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Click to collapse
what point is that This is some random shoot with 5 devices and the opinion of readers is solicited. its a popularoty contest that does not go into pros & cons, features of any of the devices concerned.
What i wanted to check is that auto hdr was not set for landscapes. Hdr will produce a less sharper image as its a blend of more than one image. you do not want hdr to come on in such a comparison. it might for some and not others. how to tell ? With the G4 the exifs will indicate immediately but not in this case.
Also shutter speed indoors can play a factor. How fast the shot was taken. sometimes shot is taken without getting focus and its softer. How to tell ? no way.
have seen images where focus is not sharp even when shutter is adequately quick. its a focus problem. Can happen with any device.
Yes, I've viewed every pic in the sample photo thread (not only on xda but also on other boards) and some are just incredibly good! Again, i have no doubt that the G4 is capable of the best results but usually only when shooting in manual mode and using raw format to process them later and get even better results.
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Click to collapse
I found it a bit curious you said the g4 does not do well with auto. In over 6 months the amount of people that complain about this i can count on the fingers of one hand. Compared with almost every week with some other models.
Yes, the shots were stripped of exif data, only the resolution remained in there (was not done by me, i took them just how they were in the test).
The exif was surely stripped to not give away camera model/name.
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Click to collapse
True i checked them on the site. But they don't provide exifs for any of their shots. A problem I suspect lies with their publishing platform rather than deliberately.
My favorite Cams in this test were A and E. I thought B, C, and D had very much less detail and sometimes blurry or washed out and less contrast.
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Click to collapse
I liked E the best.
The contenders in this shootout were:
Nexus 6P
Motorola X Play
LG G4
Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
Sony Xperia Z5
I'll post the results later on today as I promised.
Greetz,
v.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just two out of five in that list have OIS. Was OIS tested here ? no. A competent OIS is very important unless you plan to shoot everything in excellent light.
Three out of five come with expandable storage. Just one also offers a replaceable battery.
There is another contender that will probably beat all of the above and that is the lumia 950. Was it in this test ? no
When i saw the results of this test, yes i know the rankings. A pattern jumped out.
The top two by popular vote use multi-segment metering by default, the remainder use centre weighted metering. For landscapes the former metering will look better but in other kinds of scenes centre weighted will come out better. There are tradeoffs between the two and each works best depending on the scene.
So when doing this test the metering should be the same for all. Unfortunately one candidate in that test is the odd one. It uses a different metering by default that cannot be changed so it has an edge in certain situations and a disadvantage with others.
Is difficult to conclude much without seeing exifs and they are not going to come
For future reference you want full resolutions with exifs intact to be able to start a conversation about this topic.

Wow, thx for the lengthy reply, i really apprecciate it! you bring up some interesting points that I'd like to know more about - if you have the time to answer of course.
One Twelve said:
what point is that
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The point being that all of the 5 phones were tested in the same "bad" way. Like you already mentioned: "alter the time, direction, perspective or whatever to a small degree and the picture will be different". Yes, that is true. But this applies to all 5 phones here, not just to one. So if some produce better pix throughout the 5 shots than it implies that these phones cope better with various situations, adapt more precisely and more realiably provide better images. That's all I'm trying to say.
the opinion of readers is solicited. its a popularoty contest
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Click to collapse
And I couldn't care less about the results of the voting
What i wanted to check is that auto hdr was not set for landscapes. Hdr will produce a less sharper image as its a blend of more than one image. you do not want hdr to come on in such a comparison.
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Click to collapse
Thx for this information piece, very good to know.
Also shutter speed indoors can play a factor. How fast the shot was taken. sometimes shot is taken without getting focus and its softer.
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Click to collapse
Can't understand this. Why should the chosen shutter speed influence the previous act of focusing? Shooting at 1/1000 sec doesn't mean that I want the shot to happen in the next 1/1000 of a second! I could adjust focus for half an hour if I want and then get a frame which was exposed for a 1/1000 second.
have seen images where focus is not sharp even when shutter is adequately quick. its a focus problem. Can happen with any device.
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I guess this is what you're trying to say regarding the out of focus issue.
I found it a bit curious you said the g4 does not do well with auto. In over 6 months the amount of people that complain about this i can count on the fingers of one hand.
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I know! That's why I don't get why the 5 shots in the test came out the way they did. How could he/she have messed them up so badly compared to A and E?
I liked E the best.
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Yes, hard to decide for me between E and A.
A pattern jumped out.
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Click to collapse
What do you mean?
So when doing this test the metering should be the same for all. Unfortunately one candidate in that test is the odd one. It uses a different metering by default that cannot be changed so it has an edge in certain situations and a disadvantage with others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which phone is this?
Is difficult to conclude much without seeing exifs and they are not going to come
For future reference you want full resolutions with exifs intact to be able to start a conversation about this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you're right.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts/knowledge with me!
Greetz,
v.

Hey, as promised the results:
A = Galaxy S6
B = Nexus 6p
C = Xperia Z5
D = LG G4
E = Moto X Style
Original article is from the german androidpit site, here it is:
Link
And here the blog entry with the results:
Link
Greetz,
v.

vercetti said:
The point being that all of the 5 phones were tested in the same "bad" way. Like you already mentioned: "alter the time, direction, perspective or whatever to a small degree and the picture will be different". Yes, that is true. But this applies to all 5 phones here, not just to one. So if some produce better pix throughout the 5 shots than it implies that these phones cope better with various situations, adapt more precisely and more realiably provide better images. That's all I'm trying to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How will they behave in another 5 situations. Another 5 and so on. I cannot say. Just that in these 5 we can see some differrences.
Thx for this information piece, very good to know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with some devices you can tell if hdr is used with others its not indicated.
Can't understand this. Why should the chosen shutter speed influence the previous act of focusing? Shooting at 1/1000 sec doesn't mean that I want the shot to happen in the next 1/1000 of a second! I could adjust focus for half an hour if I want and then get a frame which was exposed for a 1/1000 second.
I guess this is what you're trying to say regarding the out of focus issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you click before it gets focus it will take the shot. it will never refuse. If focus was not correct did they check and retake. Otheriwse photo will not look good and its mistake of the tester not camera.
I know! That's why I don't get why the 5 shots in the test came out the way they did. How could he/she have messed them up so badly compared to A and E?
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why does it matter. there are plenty of comparisons out there. Without exifs there are no answers so i do not think more about it.
What do you mean?
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Since you posted the results, the top two by preference are z5 & moto x style. These are default multi segment shooters. in landscapes colour exposure will look better.
The rest are all centre weighted.
Which phone is this?
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moto x style is a default multi shooter. does good with landscapes. z5, samsung you can change the metering. g4 is default centre weighted like nexus 6p and htc one m9 and cannot be changed so you have to take little more care that light is not too bright in the scene. change the framing.
check this comparison out. its done by a reviewer that knows cameras
http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/21116_Camera_head_to_head_Lumia_950_.php
The point i'm trying to make is if the shot does not come out right you can fix it. if you know what to do. This is more important than who is the winner in any shoot out.
One cannot expect perfect shots with any camera all the time. So does the camera provide the tools to do this. Only the G4 does in your list. 6p & MXS have no manual control. Z5 has little more. The S6 is second best here.
Check out also V10, same camera as G4 but control of video. But its bigger device. Too big for me this year.
Auto shootouts are random & static there is no second chance which is not always true in real life.

This shootout was a nice try. But seriously why Camera A is always at 16MP when all the other get the crop misleading camouflage? I care about FoV in a camera and I disvalued some of them because of the intentional crop.
Interestingly, I picked E,D and A as my favourites . But I put A as third because of its sharpness mask wich I hate. Now I see A is GS6: I used to appreciate Samsung "softness" software decision this year but now I see this Contrast and sharpness mask, WTF happened to Samsung?
I used to dislike G4 usual sharpness mask instead here I see A LOT of softness. Don't know what happened with updates xD

oile said:
I used to dislike G4 usual sharpness mask instead here I see A LOT of softness. Don't know what happened with updates xD
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There was a comparison posted between G3 & G4 from android authority and it looked like G3 had the better shots in auto.
I concluded that the G4 lens was not cleam

IMHO a test has to be done by somebody who: knows how to make a good picture, knows how to set up a camera, understand the concept of exposure-shake-focus-unsharp mask-noise reduction (I am sure I miss something). None of these requirements are fulfilled by the author of this test.
In my 25 years as pro photographer I have seen so many photo editors, graphics, "experts" misunderstanding the differences between Focus accurancy, shake, contrast and sharpness mask.

Related

New photo samples?

I think these may not have been discussed before and appear to have been taken with a Z:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mooringrope/
Pixel peeping at 100%, sure they seem to not be that sharp from the noise reduction but I think they'll still do very good prints, maybe as big as A3. I'll probably try printing some when I get mine as a test.
Also, I think responsiveness of the software / speed of capture and control is more important than minor image quality issues.
Edit: I think it may still be a pre-production device. As it's listed on flickr as C6603...
Edit 11th Feb: Later on in this topic, hush66 kindly posted some links to new sample photos which are from a production device and seem a lot better than the ones in my post below.
hush66 said:
I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Update: original photos can be downloaded here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0ej013u7kkrdbv3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Also these are new to me at least: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]N05/sets/72157632729147253/
Edit: Having browsed these images a little bit more, I feel the Z image quality may be a bit disappointing.
This combined with a review mentioning there not being a big difference between 720p and 1080p on the display and the seemingly average battery life as a result, has made me start to consider whether to cancel my pre-order.

First batch looks good to me. Alot different to the second album though... wether the 2nd guy has wobbly hands or just typed the wrong device i have no idea. But from what samples i have seen the pictures usually are very good, and as people say Sony are good in the camera department

Looking good. Maybe it's nothing revolutionary, but low light photos are amazing.

I'm very happy with what I'm seeing in the first batch and those night/low light shots. It is only a phone camera after all so it's unrealistic to expect the world out of it.

Pretty good for a phone. Phone Photos will never be great, even with a big sensor like the nokia, simply because the lens will never be great.
Personally I rather have a thin phone and a separate camera like the rx100 than a heavy and large phone like the pure views.

Photo quality
I read two reviews that said the picture quality Xperia z is not all that. They said there was not a lot of progress in relation to phones like iPhone 5 or galaxy s3.
Very noisy and marketing ...
Companies have to stop fooling people ... cuz eventually lose credibility with the public.
Sony xperia z = Tefefone too thin to have a better camera to nokia 920 and nokia n8
13mp was only for marketing!

Sigh... You only signed up to write that?
I'd like to welcome to XDA:silly:
Here it goes:
rapha.194 said:
I read two reviews that said the picture quality Xperia z is not all that. They said there was not a lot of progress in relation to phones like iPhone 5 or galaxy s3.
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Click to collapse
You said you read 2 reviews, that's fine and all. But what if both reviews said for example that the phone smelled like carrots (Just an example)
Would you have believed it?
Before concluding things it's best that you try out the phone for yourself.
And you may say/think that the pictures aren't all that, but qw all have our different opinions, some may find it enough for their needs, some don't. Some use a dedicated camera, some use their phone. Should I continue?
rapha.194 said:
Very noisy and marketing ...
Companies have to stop fooling people ... cuz eventually lose credibility with the public.
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Click to collapse
Companies have to stop fooling people... agreed, but look it from their point of view, in the end they are only doing it to survive in this world. So can we blame them? I'd say no.
Eventually everyone bought a product because some company said that product X was better then product Z from another company. It's for us to figure out what true and what's not. People in general have to look passed their nose and see the actual truth instead of being "misinformed".
rapha.194 said:
Sony xperia z = Tefefone too thin to have a better camera to nokia 920 and nokia n8
13mp was only for marketing!
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Click to collapse
Is that your conclusion that the telephone is too thin or did you copied that from a review(s)?
You named 2 other phones... well I'd say test it out and proof that to us.
And yes of course the 13mp is a marketing scheme, but some company has to be the first to announce these kind of things, in xx months I bet there will be more companies introducing a 13mp camera in their phones, will you also call it a marketing scheme then? Or won't you, because multiple companies have the "technology" (referring to the 13mp).
Now it's your turn:angel:

Dsteppa
First of all thanks for the greeting.

no photo but video comparisson vs the galaxy note 2 and nexus 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el85dQDDSrY
the xperia z is in another level

stefanve said:
Pretty good for a phone. Phone Photos will never be great, even with a big sensor like the nokia, simply because the lens will never be great.
Personally I rather have a thin phone and a separate camera like the rx100 than a heavy and large phone like the pure views.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nokia pureview 808 is a class all its own. The pictures from it rival just about any point and shoot I've seen at least from 2 feet away or with tux limit of the Nokia zoom.
I was hoping the Z was going to put up a close fight but I'm skeptical at this point. There certainly is hype created by companies but on the case of the Nokia its all backed up. Hopefully Sony hasn't let us down.

I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Update: original photos can be downloaded here: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

hush66 said:
I took some sample photos using the Xperia Z, and uploaded them here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/110267829736715997848/XperiaZC6603Samples
Sorry if the photos are not that good. I suck at taking photos as my hands are somewhat shaky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those photos are probably the best I have seen out of all of the reviews. Your photos seem to suffer much less of the compression issues I saw on the review photos. Could you attempt to take some lower light pictures? and possibly a few comparing HDR to non-HDR? Thanks.

Warrimonk said:
Those photos are probably the best I have seen out of all of the reviews. Your photos seem to suffer much less of the compression issues I saw on the review photos. Could you attempt to take some lower light pictures? and possibly a few comparing HDR to non-HDR? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I took a couple pictures with HDR on and off (check the link again). I'll try some low light shoots later tonight.

hush66 said:
Ok, I took a couple pictures with HDR on and off (check the link again). I'll try some low light shoots later tonight.
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Hmm you sure you don't have the pics mislabeled? The first one looks more HDR-ish, but it's labeled as without.

-]Megacharge[- said:
Hmm you sure you don't have the pics mislabeled? The first one looks more HDR-ish, but it's labeled as without.
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Yes, I'm positive the photos were labelled correctly.

I agree the first (labelled no HDR) has better details in the shadows, very interesting.
I agree with people here the photo's that are shown before are not that flash, however the ones posted by hush66 seem to be better, although hard to know for sure because they don't seem to be full res.
I agree to comments here about phone camera being around marketing. HTC tried something around this with the HTC One, I gave the HTC marketing department a bollocking about this, they pulled this marketing off the site a few days later. They were claiming you couldn't tell the difference between photo's taken with a DSLR and HTC One, hahahaha. The sample pictures were 364x268 pixels in size. I challenged them to tell the difference between photos from my Old Nokia N70, Blackberry 8900 and HTC Desire at the same pixels.
The biggest benefit of a point and shoot over the camera of the phone are the optical zooms, image quality is the similar or better than a lot of point and shoots.

danw_oz said:
I agree with people here the photo's that are shown before are not that flash, however the ones posted by hush66 seem to be better, although hard to know for sure because they don't seem to be full res.
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I uploaded the original photos here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0ej013u7kkrdbv3

These are very good, thanks. I really like how it handles macro shots.

Damn, hush's photos are by far the best I've seen of everything posted from the Z so far. I just spend the past couple of hours sifting through random shots taken by the Z before finding this thread, so I'm very aware that the sharpness is quite a bit better in these pics.
Could it be there's a newer firmware update at play? Or are there still others out there taking photos with pre-production units? I know a lot of pics so far have come from websites that've recieved the Z, but what are the chances that Sony sent them pre-production phones vs. final retail units? It'd seem like a silly thing to do, but there's a real world difference between what they were able to do with the camera, and what hush was able to do.

Post the photos clicked with YOUR Moto X!

Post photos taken with your MOTO X.
I currently dont have a moto x so you guys can post your own....I guess!!!!!!
Update: planning on getting a moto x but they don't seem to launch our in India
Let's hope I get one!
~ExonakiDev:highfive:

I don't think any one has it yet....
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda premium

Well they will.... Soon
$€nt fr©m My N€×us~4™

Here's some photos OF a Moto X and its available color options
sent from just the tip

I just got my seed device, should have my noto in 4 days!!!!!
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium

Cool!
$€nt fr©m My N€×us~4™

Moto X sample shots
Moto X sample shots
http://www.engadget.com/gallery/moto-x-sample-shots-1/479482/#!slide=479498

karty said:
Moto X sample shots
http://www.engadget.com/gallery/moto-x-sample-shots-1/479482/#!slide=479498
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Well, this is what I about expected from a Moto camera. I have seen in the right conditions and lighting pretty good shots with it, but as a 2 phone guy, this is why I will be carrying my Nokia 928 with me for photos and Moto for ecosystem and Google services. I heard most of these inadequacies can be improved upon with SW updates. We will see.

busixb said:
Well, this is what I about expected from a Moto camera. I have seen in the right conditions and lighting pretty good shots with it, but as a 2 phone guy, this is why I will be carrying my Nokia 928 with me for photos and Moto for ecosystem and Google services. I heard most of these inadequacies can be improved upon with SW updates. We will see.
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Gotta love the Lumia cameras. Gosh I miss my 920. It was so easy to take nice shots with that phone and every phone I've had since hasn't even come close.

The camera on this and the new droids quite honestly sucks. I don't think anyone is surprised, but you would think if they were going for an "iphone" like market, they would have put a little more emphasis on the shooter. the artifacts in low light pics are plain awful:crying:
Was seriously considering this to move from the N4, but not anymore. Every single review that has posted pics just don't look good at all.
I love moto, just wish they would step their camera game up a notch and not just throw around terms like clearpixel...it clearly doesn't help.
I am interested in seeing real world shots that ppl get with it though---sometimes they differ from the review photos.
Happy Shooting Moto X folks

shea-bird said:
The camera on this and the new droids quite honestly sucks. I don't think anyone is surprised, but you would think if they were going for an "iphone" like market, they would have put a little more emphasis on the shooter. the artifacts in low light pics are plain awful:crying:
Was seriously considering this to move from the N4, but not anymore. Every single review that has posted pics just don't look good at all.
I love moto, just wish they would step their camera game up a notch and not just throw around terms like clearpixel...it clearly doesn't help.
I am interested in seeing real world shots that ppl get with it though---sometimes they differ from the review photos.
Happy Shooting Moto X folks
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Well if you were planning to get the MotoX mainly for its camera, then you obviously will be disappointed. It's not leading edge right from the start, but a simple software update to tweak how it adjusts and balances the light can easily improve the quality a bit. I always view cellphone cams as means to create passable photos.

shea-bird said:
The camera on this and the new droids quite honestly sucks. I don't think anyone is surprised, but you would think if they were going for an "iphone" like market, they would have put a little more emphasis on the shooter. the artifacts in low light pics are plain awful:crying:
Was seriously considering this to move from the N4, but not anymore. Every single review that has posted pics just don't look good at all.
I love moto, just wish they would step their camera game up a notch and not just throw around terms like clearpixel...it clearly doesn't help.
I am interested in seeing real world shots that ppl get with it though---sometimes they differ from the review photos.
Happy Shooting Moto X folks
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Click to collapse
They still look better than the N4's pics, at least I think so.

Psilocin said:
Well if you were planning to get the MotoX mainly for its camera, then you obviously will be disappointed. It's not leading edge right from the start, but a simple software update to tweak how it adjusts and balances the light can easily improve the quality a bit. I always view cellphone cams as means to create passable photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm not looking for a DSLR, but at least match the quality of the current flagships. They are a couple Gens behind with this cam (or so it appears). The S3 took better pics. My N4 is in the same boat...crappy cam, I've been looking for that vanilla phone with a good cam...Doesn't look like its gonna happen, might have to go back to the old root n rom method.
The Sony Honami could change that though.
Anyhow, still want to see the real world pics from the X...couple more days til we get a few samples.

tacotino said:
I just got my seed device, should have my noto in 4 days!!!!!
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just got an email from them saying the shipping has been delayed does this happen to you as well?

Resized, but otherwise unretouched shot from my Moto X. This is just a shot from my office window - no artistic merit!

any comparative shots out yet? vs htc1, s4 and nexus4?

DonDizzurp said:
any comparative shots out yet? vs htc1, s4 and nexus4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a quick comparison shot between the MotoX & Samsung Galaxy S4. These shots were taken about 30 seconds apart and have no post processing done other than resizing each to a width of 640 pixels. The one on the left is from the Moto X and the one on the right is from the Galaxy S4.
I haven't tested the Moto X in low light or any challenging conditions.
Initial thoughts:
- The one from the GS4 os a much more accurate colour rendition of the actual scene.
- The one from the Moto X has a purplish cast to the picture (see the colour of the sky).
- There is a lot more detail in the picture taken by the GS4.

rajeshr said:
Here's a quick comparison shot between the MotoX & Samsung Galaxy S4. These shots were taken about 30 seconds apart and have no post processing done other than resizing each to a width of 640 pixels. The one on the left is from the Moto X and the one on the right is from the Galaxy S4.
I haven't tested the Moto X in low light or any challenging conditions.
Initial thoughts:
- The one from the GS4 os a much more accurate colour rendition of the actual scene.
- The one from the Moto X has a purplish cast to the picture (see the colour of the sky).
- There is a lot more detail in the picture taken by the GS4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly..Like I said...this camera is generations behind the current top shooters. Its a shame, and there's really no excuse other than being ignorant and disconnected from what customers want. They even hyped the camera with this ClearPixel nonsense - please dont hype a horrible camera. I would have DEF bought this phone had it contained a good camera.
BAH
Eager to see some more shots, but they could have done WAAY better with this.

shea-bird said:
Exactly..Like I said...this camera is generations behind the current top shooters. Its a shame, and there's really no excuse other than being ignorant and disconnected from what customers want. They even hyped the camera with this ClearPixel nonsense - please dont hype a horrible camera. I would have DEF bought this phone had it contained a good camera.
BAH
Eager to see some more shots, but they could have done WAAY better with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are issues but I'm not sure whether they are due to the sensor or the processing done on the resultant image. The former would be a huge issue, while the latter is something that could be addressed via a software update.

rajeshr said:
Here's a quick comparison shot between the MotoX & Samsung Galaxy S4. These shots were taken about 30 seconds apart and have no post processing done other than resizing each to a width of 640 pixels. The one on the left is from the Moto X and the one on the right is from the Galaxy S4.
I haven't tested the Moto X in low light or any challenging conditions.
Initial thoughts:
- The one from the GS4 os a much more accurate colour rendition of the actual scene.
- The one from the Moto X has a purplish cast to the picture (see the colour of the sky).
- There is a lot more detail in the picture taken by the GS4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, S4 makes the X look like a joke.

Photographer's perspective on the LG G3

These topics have been widely discussed, I just find this funny. I do professional photography, and I thought this phone would be great for me. Not only could I show off my photos on a glorious 2k screen, but it was supposed to have a great off-duty camera as well. Ironically, it's instead hitting some photographer pet peeves real bad.
1) The screen sharpening is bad. I see amateur photographers get over enthusiastic on sharpening, cause the sharper the better, right? No, you make ugly artifacts like halos. Now my entire phone does it nonstop. It hurts! This goes beyond the font issue that's widely been talked about. I love viewing photos through my Nexus 7 or HTC M7 because it's like looking through a window. Photos on the G3 just look artifical.
2) Another is the camera noise reduction. Noise is bad, so let's crank the noise reduction. No, some grain and more detail is much preferable to pics that look like watercolors.
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulous edit. Great.
I know I'm hypersensitive to these issues because of my profession. My wife didn't notice the sharpening. But it's funny that what I thought would be my ideal phone is such the opposite.

supposedmonster said:
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulously edit. Great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long ago was last time you calibrated your PC monitor? Does your monitor have sRGB mode? And, BTW, maybe you even use some notebook with cheap junky TN panel in the first place? :laugh:

I use an ASUS PA246 wide gamut monitor regularly calibrated with a Colormunki Display, so yes, I have a good benchmark.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

supposedmonster said:
so yes, I have a good benchmark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad for you, well then did you try to compare pix from the net to view both on monitor and on G3 and compare colors? Like I did
Check that topic also, maybe you bought G3 with blueish panel

Man this was not an easy shot to pull off. It's hard to tell from the pic, but LG is on the left and Nexus 7 is on the bottom. The LG would equate to quite a few notches of saturation boost in Lightroom.
This photo doesn't quite show it well, but the Nexus is actually slightly less saturated than the calibrated monitor.
The colors aren't that bad in either devices (I mean you can only expect so much, I get these aren't meant to be crazy calibrated panels), but I'd rather edit on the Nexus and find them slightly more vibrant on other devices than on the LG and find it decidedly dull.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Haha, well my camera has WiFi. When in on vacation it's fun being able to post professional quality pics to social media from my phone.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

The G3 display can be somewhat manually adjusted in color contrast, did you tweak it a bit? Maybe it'll improve.

Thanks, I have read about that. Without being able to use a preview image to calibrate I think it'd drive me crazy. Plus I doubt it'll help because it seems to only adjust color and contrast, not saturation, which is the bigger issue.
What bugs me more though is the sharpening, but I have faith that'll be fixed either by LG or the community since enough people have raised a hallaboo.
Sent from my LG-D851 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I can live with the screen sharpening (since it's all software and don't affect the photos themselves). I can also live with so-so color reproduction. But gawd, that NR pisses me off. What's the point of having a good sensor when you're gonna mess up the photos with mediocre processing. That being said... photos still look pretty decent in good lighting ;P

supposedmonster said:
These topics have been widely discussed, I just find this funny. I do professional photography, and I thought this phone would be great for me. Not only could I show off my photos on a glorious 2k screen, but it was supposed to have a great off-duty camera as well. Ironically, it's instead hitting some photographer pet peeves real bad.
1) The screen sharpening is bad. I see amateur photographers get over enthusiastic on sharpening, cause the sharper the better, right? No, you make ugly artifacts like halos. Now my entire phone does it nonstop. It hurts! This goes beyond the font issue that's widely been talked about. I love viewing photos through my Nexus 7 or HTC M7 because it's like looking through a window. Photos on the G3 just look artifical.
2) Another is the camera noise reduction. Noise is bad, so let's crank the noise reduction. No, some grain and more detail is much preferable to pics that look like watercolors.
3) I knew this one going in, but as the Andantech review pointed out, the color accuracy is bad. I can spend time editing a photo on my phone and paste it to Facebook, just to realize once I'm viewing on a pc that the pic looks nothing like my meticulous edit. Great.
I know I'm hypersensitive to these issues because of my profession. My wife didn't notice the sharpening. But it's funny that what I thought would be my ideal phone is such the opposite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry but you have me totally confused.......
I agree the G3 does have over sharpening which depending on how and what you shoot can have detrimental effects on the scene shot.
However, why on earth are you getting so annoyed with what is in effect simply a smartphone camera sensor?
Although I do not take photos as a profession I have however owned a camera since... Hang on a second......1963. Throughout time I learned many various methods and art in photography, travelling the world shooting all manner of photos with compacts and SLR's to the more recent DSLR and smartphone.
Yet, there is no way on earth would I take a professional shot with a smartphone nor would I expect it to achieve something which could be of use in a professional manner.
I do apologies but it does annoy me when I hear from someone first stating they are a 'professional' and use this word as their basis for a debate.
If you have an issue with the G3, fine I can live with that as you are very much correct, certain aspects of the software could be improved but let us not forget.
1. It is a smartphone.
2. It is software which means if you do not like the camera app that controls the shooting then use a different camera app.
I personally use the app 'A Better Camera' which is excellent.
I am sure as a professional photographer you must have heard of this app and learned the author is not just another coder but does have an understanding of photography.
With 'A Better Camera' as your tool you will find first it gives you back the manual controls and second it then allows you to be as creative as a smartphone will allow you.
Having said all this I have never ever ever been happy letting the camera dictate the shot but the G3 is the first type of camera that I am happy shooting 'casual photography' in auto mode.

Beards said:
I am sorry but you have me totally confused.......
I agree the G3 does have over sharpening which depending on how and what you shoot can have detrimental effects on the scene shot.
However, why on earth are you getting so annoyed with what is in effect simply a smartphone camera sensor?
Although I do not take photos as a profession I have however owned a camera since... Hang on a second......1963. Throughout time I learned many various methods and art in photography, travelling the world shooting all manner of photos with compacts and SLR's to the more recent DSLR and smartphone.
Yet, there is no way on earth would I take a professional shot with a smartphone nor would I expect it to achieve something which could be of use in a professional manner.
I do apologies but it does annoy me when I hear from someone first stating they are a 'professional' and use this word as their basis for a debate.
If you have an issue with the G3, fine I can live with that as you are very much correct, certain aspects of the software could be improved but let us not forget.
1. It is a smartphone.
2. It is software which means if you do not like the camera app that controls the shooting then use a different camera app.
I personally use the app 'A Better Camera' which is excellent.
I am sure as a professional photographer you must have heard of this app and learned the author is not just another coder but does have an understanding of photography.
With 'A Better Camera' as your tool you will find first it gives you back the manual controls and second it then allows you to be as creative as a smartphone will allow you.
Having said all this I have never ever ever been happy letting the camera dictate the shot but the G3 is the first type of camera that I am happy shooting 'casual photography' in auto mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speaking of which, is it possible to set long exposure (for night shots with a tripod, for example) with A Better Camera? Other than the automatic "Night Shot"...

fabripav said:
Speaking of which, is it possible to set long exposure (for night shots with a tripod, for example) with A Better Camera? Other than the automatic "Night Shot"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not presently...... But note, this is not the problem with the G3 or A Better Camera.
It is Android or should I say Google who limited the speed to just under 1sec.
However, under Android L all will change as among the 400+ camera api's introduced camera speed is one of them. So 'hopefully' developers will raise to the challenge and add this vital missing setting.

Beards said:
Not presently...... But note, this is not the problem with the G3 or A Better Camera.
It is Android or should I say Google who limited the speed to just under 1sec.
However, under Android L all will change as among the 400+ camera api's introduced camera speed is one of them. So 'hopefully' developers will raise to the challenge and add this vital missing setting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)

fabripav said:
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Oppo Find 7's camera doesn't actually keep the lens open for 32 seconds, it does a trick similar to what Camera FV-5 does in that it takes a series of shots from a thumbnail (hence why it's small and lacks any detail).
Re your query on Camera FV-5 ~ everything with the exception of ISO works. With ISO the dials say it has altered ISO but when you take the shot you find it has altered nothing.
A Better Camera on the other hand does alter the settings and does apply them to the shot.
It's the only app out there which utilises all the manual controls that are open to write permission, this also includes AE and WB Lock which again no other camera app uses.

[/COLOR]
fabripav said:
Yeah, can't wait for that update for many reasons, camera included.
It's weird though that the Oppo Find 7 camera (for example) has a shutter speed that goes up to 32 seconds. How did they manage to make it avalaible? The sensor is a simple Sony IMX214.
I wonder if all the features of Camera FV-5 work on the G3, anyone tried it yet? (my G3 has yet to arrive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does. I haven't tried the long exposure in FV-5 though.
Beards said:
Re your query on Camera FV-5 ~ everything with the exception of ISO works. With ISO the dials say it has altered ISO but when you take the shot you find it has altered nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera FV-5's ISO setting works fine for me.
ISO 100 1/60 F/2.4
http://i1.minus.com/iMbhMmPuhI3Es.JPG
ISO 1600 1/680 F/2.4
http://i7.minus.com/iNJO0u9CN5xvf.JPG
I'm a photographer (;P). I know what I'm talking about.

You have the D851 which is Tmob.. which doesnt have the sharpening effect.. at least anecdotally. same model i have and theres zero sharpening going on. the colors mind you are off, but its no galaxy S4 or G2.. but as was stated dont plan to edit on your phone and you wont be frustrated by using the wrong tool for the job.
dont bring a 400mm telephoto zoom to a job that requires a 35mm prime or vice versa.

Itaintrite said:
[/COLOR]
Yes it does. I haven't tried the long exposure in FV-5 though.
Camera FV-5's ISO setting works fine for me.
ISO 100 1/60 F/2.4
http://i1.minus.com/iMbhMmPuhI3Es.JPG
ISO 1600 1/680 F/2.4
http://i7.minus.com/iNJO0u9CN5xvf.JPG
I'm a photographer (;P). I know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really...... Thank you.
When was the App last updated?

Beards said:
Really...... Thank you.
When was the App last updated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using v1.7.3. Updated June 27th.

Itaintrite said:
I'm using v1.7.3. Updated June 27th.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great... I'll give it another go against A Better Camera; although ABC does have many more controls.

HTC One M9 Camera discussion (not for photo samples)

Albert Poon said:
May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was missing in the flickr album. Long exposure 1/4, 1/2 or 1s shots. And please use flickr so we can see exifs easily. board attachments and imgur strip exifs out. I notice the phonearena samples have no exifs in them at all.
Though i have to say i like this one. Just enough silhouette to set the mood.
ISO 80 and 1/40 WHAT!!! for late afternoon Seattle in winter. I can't tell if its HDR or not.
---------- Post added at 09:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------
xxquicksh0txx said:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Taken with VSCO cam, ISO 50, 1/268. So ample light.
Also used flash. Sharpness is set to soft.
A nice photo.
---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------
vegetaleb said:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:
I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago
M9
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Note 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note 4 is ISO 400, 1/10
M9 is ISO 640, 1/14
About half a f-stop difference.
What if the M9 tried to get that with ISO 300 ie ISO 200 +0.3 at 1/7 ? or go slower still ISO100+0.3 at 1/3 ? can't do these tricks with the note, slowest it will get is 1/8 and then its auto night mode kicks in which did not happen in this picture. S5 & note 4 have improved their low light capability over their predecessors in auto but i bet you can come close to matching it if not exceeding it with manual on m9.
Light in this shot is quite low btw.

th3 said:
This obsession is what makes every product better in every field, than its predecessor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
Without this obsession, there can be no better or worse product, and you'll still be saying "good enough" to the HTC Desire camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
What you're saying... 'Moving the goalpost' it's called. Common trick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
Your opinion is not supported by the data we all have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
tryfound said:
No, your whole post is invalid. I'm testing AUTO, feel free to grace us all with your superior photography skills when you get your M9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
vegetaleb said:
At last a camera comparison between M9 and Note4 http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-M9-vs-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4_id3963/page/3
In daylight the Note 4 is significantly better, the M9 will smudge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
In low light even resized to 640x480 the M9 is very blurry and smudgy, the Note 4 is millions years ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Conclusion: unless you want to use your photos only from daylight situations and only resized to Facebook and other social medias (of course no crop at all) . you should consider the Note 4 as a very good choice of camera phone in every situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.

tryfound said:
You're so full of yourself. How dare I waste your precious time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
Make up my mind or sell? Sell what? Some people here asked to see comparisons with the Note 4 and I gave them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
To suggest that I should be tweaking manual settings on an M9 to achieve the quality of the Note 4's auto shots is beyond comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just looked at images and they look really good. I am surprised M9 managed to capture that pristine detail I never seen before. White balance too looks so great not like previously green tint that was all over images.
One thing I am not able to find is camera data in adobe bridge and also colour space is untagged. That usually happens when photo being stripped of exif data. Have you by any chance gave some editing to them?
Thanks

I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations. The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used . This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.

nebulaoperator said:
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.
The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.
This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
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The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.

Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
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jauhien said:
Some yesterday snaps here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we88grvt72bldy8/4PDA_REQUEST.zip?dl=0
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One Twelve said:
.
Disclaimer: I should learn how to use quotes.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
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Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
[/QUOTE]So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.[/QUOTE]
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .I own M7 and know it's weaknesses.And I don't want to use manual though I know my phone from inside to outside.
[/QUOTE]General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.[/QUOTE]
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste. I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
[/QUOTE]Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.[/QUOTE]
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
[/QUOTE]A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.[/QUOTE]
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
[/QUOTE]
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.[/QUOTE]
AE/AF is a very handy tool. I am glad smartphones have this simple yet very effective feature.

Quadrider10 said:
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
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I didn't think the M9 looked bad. Need to use a computer instead of my note 4
Sent from a mobile gadget...
---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
And guys, chill out. I don't think M9 will have the best camera, but it will hopefully be enough. What I'm worried about is the speed of the camera and SOT. I will probably buy it anyway because I love HTCs mix.
Sent from a mobile gadget...

You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
One Twelve said:
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
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One Twelve said:
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
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Sent using Tapatalk

th3 said:
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Went right to the end for the punchline
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
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Hah so despite the s6 camera 'trouncing' the m9, you actually went in for what ? .....<drum roll>....the M9 <applause>
Confirms what i said earlier, the image quality differences weren't enough to deter you.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
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yeah so why didn't you get one of them then ? riiiiightt. Why the narrow obsessions with image quality somehow don't pan out in the end. Bigger forces at play.
With ip6+ and 3rd party camera with manual controls. you can improve over stock auto. With the same on the iP6 or even iP5x and a steady hand you can come close if not match the plus.
S6 & N4 or even the G3 don't offer shutter speed control so there is no way to tell how effective their OIS is, its just stated and i believe its there but no way to tell like say with the iP6+ that can do a 1/4 handheld. Night mode on the recent samsungs is good. Much improved over earlier versions. They boosting sensor gain and fiddling around. To get a similar shot would require an exposure two times longer with other devices including the m9. So you will have to work at it.
No idea when raw support will come for the above. But i bet you get it on the m9 before them. Your details issues will disappear at that point but you have to process each image yourself.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
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So you do not understand that delaying shutter and lowering iso will improve image quality in low light ? This applies only with stationary subjects btw, forget doing it with people or anything that won't sit still.
Sop with any camera that allows manual control, i can show you manual lumia 930 vs note 4 where it gets pretty close and auto did not. When more people post later you'll see what i mean.
I'm most interested in the low light shots and rarely bother with daylight comparisons because they are pretty similar. In fact my problem with smartphone cameras is too much detail strange as that may sound. because it makes isolating subjects harder. Everything is so damn clear. Because its the equivalent of an f11 lens in 35mm speak. Depth of field is deeper. Great for macros but not others.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want better photos what i said works. 99% or not is meaningless. This is xda, do 99 % care about rooting, custom firmwares, or any number of hacks people share here ? So what 99% are you referring to and why do they matter. If anything i'm more interested in the 1%.
what i've said wrt to manual is no different. In fact its common knowledge to anyone who has a clue.
---------- Post added at 04:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------
*Emix* said:
https://curved.de/news/galaxy-s6-one-m9-iphone-6-im-grossen-kameravergleich-236192
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Why they didn't use iP6+ ?
1. night shots all soft because iso got boosted on m9. 2nd shot wrong wb for m9. 4th shot all have blown lights, cannot do this without blending.
2. again iso got boosted on m9. second selfie, because background is brighter so iso drops and looks normal.
3. is about where you set exposure.
4. macros are similar. contrast can be improved in post.
5. panoramas, heh all not to my liking because of cylindrical projection. no straight horizontals with such a wide fov.
6. food, can be improved in post or use manual. That ISO is maybe close to 600 try to get it at half.

curiousgeorge1893 said:
Not quite on topic but I've got an M8 coming, I'm ditching my Xperia Z2 for it, is that a good idea do you think?
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What is it about the Z2 that you don't like ? You'd be trading fantastic video stabilisation for none.
The scene modes should help in low light if you use them right. However the lack of shutter control can be frustrating. A quick tweak can't be done. More trial & error.
I was put off by the 4MP camera as i admit I like to zoom and crop, however I like a phone that is good in lowlight.
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What does 4MP do ? sharpens the mind. You have to think more carefully about what you want to get it right. If you want to zoom & crop then you need to be closer to your subject. if you can't do that then 4MP is out.
Also, I like a phone that offers manual controls and shutter speed, HTC phones are the only ones that do this plus a like a phone that has a good flash and takes photos quickly.
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m8 is a fast shooter in auto. But this gap has been closed with the S6 and the S5 is fast too. Have you considered them ? No shutter control though. Given what they've done may or may not be that critical. These samsungs are primarily auto shooters. If they get what you want great, if not don't complain because you can't do much.
As for similar manual controls the hybrid zooms had them first and optical zoom is a plus. crop in camera not afterwards. K zoom or wait for the successor. Slower though. And apertures are smaller. 3.1 all the way to 6.3. Working OIS.
I was planning on getting a secondhand M9 later in the year but to be honest I am disappointed as I feel that HTC have go fowards then 2 steps backwards with the M9 camera. Whilst it's great it has a higher resolution, the f/2.0 aperature in the M7 and M8 is now f/2.2 on the M9, in my opinion it should have been f/2.0 or f/1.9, also lack of OIS is disappointing and it seems lowlight on the M9 isn't as good as the M8? Very disappointing if so.
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The difference between f2.0 and 2.2 is a quarter a f-stop. That's like getting a shot at ISO 200 instead of 250. Or 1/50 instead of 1/40. Its insignficant as one or the other parameter will compensate anyway so not really as notable as reviewers make out.
However the m9 isn't as fast a camera as its predecessors.See the camera speed benchmark. Almost twice as slow as the m8. And the Z2 is faster than the m9. Does this matter ? only if you're rushed. And if you are you're not going to get very good shots to begin with. Is the choice no shot or passable. In that case look at an advanced compact with a 1 inch sensor. Much more light, faster lens and better quality. For the same money.

BoneXDA said:
I do notice the white balance shifting sometimes on the goldish side around sunlit areas, and the M9 tends to underexpose in such conditions.
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I've noticed twice that it gets confused with halogen and neon lights, turning cream and red into green. With a yellow i can see how green can happen by wb adding blue, so just need to use a fluorescent wb or more. But cream into green is inexplicable for me. If its a bug then only a firmware update can fix it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------
curiousgeorge1893 said:
I like the Z2 but not the post processing, it smudges details, I read on here that the Z3 does the same?
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Whenever camera has to produce a jpg and do it fast it has to make a call between preserving detail (ie more noise) or smoothness (less noise). I've seen smudging happen with vegetation, it happens with all jpg outputting devices to varying degrees. To make larger features look good means smaller are going to appear less sharp. Must have the lowest ISO with a longer shutter that means anything that moves is out unless light is good or smudging gets worse.
Only way is raw but you have to process every image yourself, and its a much bigger file so it will be slower than 4mp jpg.
Compare these two from nexus 5. Jpg vs processed RAW. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want.
The originals come from fv5 site.
You control what should be more in detail or not instead of some average one size fits all algorithm with an impossible task that is optimised for speed by trading off image quality. Image quality here isn't file size but a function of how much luminance and chroma noise is preserved or not.
That algorithm and its implementation is the source of lots of heated argument over which is the better camera. Silly really.

SPreston2001 said:
The whole camera comparison may be silly, but 90% of users just want to pick up the phone and snap good pics. Most users don't fiddle around with the camera settings or even know what they do for that matter lol. All they see are which photos look the best when they pick up their phone and take a pic. The M9 camera seems to be alot better than the M8s camera but it still tends to fall behind Apples and Samsungs imaging abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.

One Twelve said:
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
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So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography?? Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people?? You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings. Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.

gavinfabl said:
This is a photos thread. We need photos! The weather for another day is gales and heavy rain here, so ruined my planned day of shooting again. Using manual settings I have captured some good shots (but private photos of family). Lowering resolution down a fraction helps in lower light. Auto is OK but when I take control even with a single tweak the difference is noticeable. I've used the S6 and S6 Edge and compared it with my Note 4. The S6 has a good auto mode.
This is my S6 and S6 Edge camera shots , and vs Note 4 camera. http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/03/19...sung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-plus-camera-shots/
I will have more in depth analysis when it's stops raining .....
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Can't say my experience with the s6 / edge was similar. On the camera front yes the camera is fast. But I found a huge issue with white balance and somewhat heavier than normal post processing (pretty evident when you look at the photos on a camera). The problem is even in pro mode, the camera still struggles with white balance. I am a white balance whore to be honest and when I see a camera struggle, I shudder.
Touchwiz lagged for me. Immensely. I kept flicking through the homescreen, not many widgets above the stock ones, and there were multiple times the device just locked up. Even after rebooting the device quite a few times, there was lag. Off topic, I watched the verge podcast recently and they also affirmed a lot of the lag I experienced with my model.
So far, I'm semi disappointed. The devices are light (like physically, I expected something much heavier). The GS6 felt boxy and somewhat sharper for my tastes while the Edge just "fit" in my hand like a really nice glove. I was stunned that the edge was the more interesting feeling device. Both devices are fingerprint magnets though almost to the point of being disgusting. After 10 minutes of handling, I was in awe with the amount of smudges and oil the back of the device accrued from general handling.
Handling is something that the Edge excels in for the most part. It feels "natural" to swipe at an edge point and get a hamburg menu from Google. And you do in GMAIL, Google Play, and a myriad of other areas. It just feels like touchwiz didn't necessarily provide too many gesture driven tasks that would really take benefit of the edge display. II mean sure you get the call context menus and the light up gimmick, but that's about it sadly. The shame of it all is that above that, the GS6 is a beautiful iphone 5-5s ripoff and the Edge is something of a quagmire begging for a developer to put it to good use. It can be obtrusive but not so much to the point it ruins the user experience.
Overall, I'm left somewhat underwhelmed with the devices. Sure, the screen is gorgeous with marvelous viewing angle fitting for a flagship. But it feels like the GS6 / edge is a iterative step in a unique and bold direction that didn't fully deliver.
Shame actually. Most people will love the GS6 / Edge. Me, I'll be forever disappoint

SPreston2001 said:
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography??
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What purpose is there to provide manual controls then ? nokia started this btw.
Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people??
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its a mindset that comes naturally to those that are into photography. They are going to try a great deal more before throwing in the towel.
Very obvious when i see Jesse's photos. You make the shot not the camera. newbies whenever they see a nice photo always want to know what camera took the shot. The person, well he just clicked. How hard could it be. They like to hide behind their cameras. Often i see shots that are horribly taken and well it was the camera's fault.
HTC is a bad camera with people who cannot take a photo. I've never bought into the 4MP was bad. A full HD screen can only display 2MP anyway. if you're not zooming or need to then you're focus is on how nice the shot looks rather than whether you can count hairs on somebody's head. I've seen people post nice photos here. if you need to crop your photos then you ain't thinking about your shots or your use case exceeds what 4MP can provide.
You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings.
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lets be clear on what manual settings i'm referring to here. Who else offers shutter speed control ?
apple only woke up to the fact in their latest OS. prior to which you could do squat cos um turtle neck deemed it unecessary. Nokia had them early and the cheapest lumias 635 ? do too. samsungs don't not even in their latest. neither does moto, or LG which went backwards with the G3 or Sony. The Chinese provide some more. So yeah HTC since the m8 was the only android offering on a fixed focal lens that offered shutter control. Makes it easy to fix things if you were so inclined. Samsung's galaxy camera is the only other that can claim to have had it first on android earlier and its a compact.
Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
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A cam is a cam and you can learn photography with any cam and play more with one that allows manual settings. I don't have a DSLR because i've not got to the point where i need one. I take shots every day and i like to tweak them because auto cant get it right. Its very normal to have access if not always necessary. But i'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around.
If you drive a stick shift you won't enjoy driving a cruiser.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
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I never expect it to look good, if it does then conditions were perfect and i was lucky, i will usually take a auto shot and if it fine leave it at that or try to tweak things about and take a couple more. I always try to take more than one. A phone is going to get thrown into so many varied situations that would challenge a pro. To expect to get it right in one take with a phone camera when pointing at anything you can think of isn't realistic.

nebulaoperator said:
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
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A tweak here or there will always improve a shot. How many people know that. Then there is the question of will. if its there and you don't use it then its not the camera's fault. It is there for flexibility.
iphone 6 no, but 6+ will get shots at 1/4. Apple thinks slower than 1/12 is not feasible for iP6. To go slower than 1/4 have to use 3rd party soft to tweak things. iphone camera has always been capable but until ios8 there was no way to access camera parameters so low light was never good.
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste.
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yes its useful there is also a way to do some exposure comp but it changes metering to spot from average or whatever apple equivalent is. A review was comparing 6 & 6+ and saying photos looked better with 6+ until i saw the exifs and pointed out both were using different metering. So of course shots will look different.
With the latest ios you have much more options than before. Curious apple did a u turn there. But not stock just with 3rd party software.
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .
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So wait for a few months then decide. As for firmware improvements. If you take a shot with firmware a at ISO 200 and compare with firmware b at ISO 200, there will be little difference.
What i mean is they can lower ISO for lower light shots so it does not boost it so high. This will improve auto some. But to go further it requires manual. Possible now, if somebody would try.
They can improve white balance with auto but it will get tricked some times so only up to a point.
I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
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They are trying to make it easy for the average person in the hope of selling more products. The traditional way is to learn how to use the product. I know the washouts you mean, blown skies etc. But once a person is aware of that you can improve it.
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
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So what are you getting ?
freedcam can already output raw on m7 & m8 and by the looks of it m9 too. htc made this easy.
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
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It was an accidental discovery. I was taking shot of somebody outside the house from inside with a tab (!) and wondered why the clothes were so saturated.
There is something up with the m9's WB i can see from numerous photos. But nobody is trying manual to fix it.
Was looking at latest world press photo contest. Many with pro dslrs and i saw one person entered an iphone photo and its in the list of winners. Out of 95k entries !!! smartphone photo..Can you believe it

Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least

twoeleven99 said:
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
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So what's your take on the M9 pictures, if I may ask?
Sent using Tapatalk

Photo quality

Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Sony Xperia 5 come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

Having this phone along with Pixel 4, I can say that X5 photo quality is mixed bag. The most frustrating thing is "ghost imaging" of moving objects, not even a fast ones. Color accuracy is pretty good. Camera app itself still needs some work. It's not convenient to use and it's considerably slower that Pixel 4 one. Focusing system could be better too.

WarVic said:
Having this phone along with Pixel 4, I can say that X5 photo quality is mixed bag. The most frustrating thing is "ghost imaging" of moving objects, not even a fast ones. Color accuracy is pretty good. Camera app itself still needs some work. It's not convenient to use and it's considerably slower that Pixel 4 one. Focusing system could be better too.
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On Manual Mode the phone is unbeatable.

doministry said:
On Manual Mode the phone is unbeatable.
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Unfortunately it's not true. I wish it was true but it's definitely not. I played a lot with manual mode on Xperia 5. I does produce very good, with plenty of details, true to life colours, "Pixel grade" photos in good light condition. Any other conditions different from ideal and Xperia photos start to fall apart. Making pictures of the moving objects in light conditions just a bit different from ideal is a failure as well. I'm getting "ghost", "double" images of my kids nearly all the time. That's not acceptable for flagship camera-phone. The same thing happen when you make photos in the late evening or night. It's pretty much impossible to use Xperia 5 in this conditions without tripod. Sony just unable to compensate even a very minimal hand shake where as it's not a problem for Pixel or flagship Huawei devices. So I took a lot of photos from Pixel 4 and Xperia 5 in the same conditions for comparison to choose the best one to keep. I took a month for me to make the final decision. So I decided to keep Pixel 4 just for much better camera system. I'll give a chance to Xperia 5 Plus this year though.

WarVic said:
Unfortunately it's not true. I wish it was true but it's definitely not. I played a lot with manual mode on Xperia 5. I does produce very good, with plenty of details, true to life colours, "Pixel grade" photos in good light condition. Any other conditions different from ideal and Xperia photos start to fall apart. Making pictures of the moving objects in light conditions just a bit different from ideal is a failure as well. I'm getting "ghost", "double" images of my kids nearly all the time. That's not acceptable for flagship camera-phone. The same thing happen when you make photos in the late evening or night. It's pretty much impossible to use Xperia 5 in this conditions without tripod. Sony just unable to compensate even a very minimal hand shake where as it's not a problem for Pixel or flagship Huawei devices. So I took a lot of photos from Pixel 4 and Xperia 5 in the same conditions for comparison to choose the best one to keep. I took a month for me to make the final decision. So I decided to keep Pixel 4 just for much better camera system. I'll give a chance to Xperia 5 Plus this year though.
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That means you have no clue about manual mode. I get all I want. You just have to use ISO and shutter speed and all that stuff correctly. That's it. It's obvious for any person knowing anything about photogtaphy....
I don't have any ghosting. Any. Sorry. And the Android 10 update makes things even better. Just yesterday had a chance to make some pics in difficult conditions and it worked great.
https://flic.kr/p/2io5e3E
https://flic.kr/p/2io2KfM

I don't need to have a clue about manual mode. Xperia 5 is not DSLR camera, you know. The main purpose of any flagship smartphone, camera-phone in particular, is ability to make perfect shots at any time as fast as possible without playing with manual mode. Manual mode is just a good addition (for geeks), nothing more. Mediocre auto mode isn't forgivable thing for such expensive device. Kids don't allow to tinker with manual mode - they simply won't wait. And I don't like to miss a moment. I can give you samples with "ghost" images if you like. Certainly Xperia 5 isn't up for competition right now and I have doubts that Sony Alpha team took any part in Xperia 1 / 5 development. They have a beer together, I guess . That's a main contribution.
---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------
In addition, Xperia 5 app launch speed is ridiculously slow compared to all phones I had for the last 2 years. Focusing system is disappointing as well. Quite often it just misses and too many times I came across the problem of inability to focus on places / objects which was not a problem Pixel 4. That's not good either.

WarVic said:
I don't need to have a clue about manual mode. Xperia 5 is not DSLR camera, you know. The main purpose of any flagship smartphone, camera-phone in particular, is ability to make perfect shots at any time as fast as possible without playing with manual mode. Manual mode is just a good addition (for geeks), nothing more. Mediocre auto mode isn't forgivable thing for such expensive device. Kids don't allow to tinker with manual mode - they simply won't wait. And I don't like to miss a moment. I can give you samples with "ghost" images if you like. Certainly Xperia 5 isn't up for competition right now and I have doubts that Sony Alpha team took any part in Xperia 1 / 5 development. They have a beer together, I guess . That's a main contribution.
---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------
In addition, Xperia 5 app launch speed is ridiculously slow compared to all phones I had for the last 2 years. Focusing system is disappointing as well. Quite often it just misses and too many times I came across the problem of inability to focus on places / objects which was not a problem Pixel 4. That's not good either.
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Wrong. Manual mode is exactly to be used consciously. If you want effect you think before you do it. That's why it's MANUAL. And than why do you want to make photos if you don't care about basics? I think it's just plain ingnorace. Than why do you even bother writing on forums. Learn something, and than discuss - don't expect your ignorance will be seen as a good thing.
Another silly thing - yes, phone cameras are semi pro, for some years. And if they're not, again - why do you expect any good results from it?
Let's face it, you need an idiot camera, than buy Pixel. Leave the best for those who can actually use it.

doministry said:
Wrong. Manual mode is exactly to be used consciously. If you want effect you think before you do it. That's why it's MANUAL. And than why do you want to make photos if you don't care about basics? I think it's just plain ingnorace. Than why do you even bother writing on forums. Learn something, and than discuss - don't expect your ignorance will be seen as a good thing.
Another silly thing - yes, phone cameras are semi pro, for some years. And if they're not, again - why do you expect any good results from it?
Let's face it, you need an idiot camera, than buy Pixel. Leave the best for those who can actually use it.
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I think you completely forgot what are you talking about - what really is a tiny camera on a dinky phone (whatever good and powerful it is) and what's the primary purpose of it. And you're calling the best smartphone camera on the market for quite a while by now (not just my personal opinion by the way) - Google Pixel camera - an idiotic one?! That is complete ignorance and nonsense! You certainly never had a Pixel phone. That's explains everything.
Please find attached one of my Xperia 5 photo. It's an epic failure indeed, man. An it's not just a one-off shot. Can't remember that I saw anything like that coming from flagship smartphone camera.
Good luck with your "advanced, for professionals only" Xperia ). Cheers!

WarVic said:
I think you completely forgot what are you talking about - what really is a tiny camera on a dinky phone (whatever good and powerful it is) and what's the primary purpose of it. And you're calling the best smartphone camera on the market for quite a while by now (not just my personal opinion by the way) - Google Pixel camera - an idiotic one?! That is complete ignorance and nonsense! You certainly never had a Pixel phone. That's explains everything.
Please find attached one of my Xperia 5 photo. It's an epic failure indeed, man. An it's not just a one-off shot. Can't remember that I saw anything like that coming from flagship smartphone camera.
Good luck with your "advanced, for professionals only" Xperia ). Cheers!
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Oh, I forgot to mention Xperia 5 complete inability to handle lens flares which was the issue for me not just once, very limited HDR mode and ... inability to shoot in RAW ("Idiotic" Pixel does have RAW!). Last one Sony's omission is laughable for "professional grade, Sony Alpha team tuned" flagship smartphone camera to say at least! And once again, Xperia focusing system is just horrible (maybe perfect for you though if you're not familiar with others). This is my final 2 cents. Cheers

WarVic said:
I think you completely forgot what are you talking about - what really is a tiny camera on a dinky phone (whatever good and powerful it is) and what's the primary purpose of it. And you're calling the best smartphone camera on the market for quite a while by now (not just my personal opinion by the way) - Google Pixel camera - an idiotic one?! That is complete ignorance and nonsense! You certainly never had a Pixel phone. That's explains everything.
Please find attached one of my Xperia 5 photo. It's an epic failure indeed, man. An it's not just a one-off shot. Can't remember that I saw anything like that coming from flagship smartphone camera.
Good luck with your "advanced, for professionals only" Xperia ). Cheers!
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Well, it's good to be able to understand things you comment. I didn't say Google is an idiotic camera, I just said you need an idiots camera - camera which does anything for you, you just press the shutter.
Google is known for its Auto Mode. But as compared with any phone with manual controls, it fails. There are tons of real life comparisons on YouTube to prove that. But to know that you have to understand anything about photography, which you don't. Which you prove again with your arguments - first about the tiny camera and than about RAW. It's obvious none of these opinions are yours actually.
Now, about the photo you enclosed - maybe your phone is broken, I don't know. Never seen anything like that, and I was never able to fail like this although I've made thousands of photos.

doministry said:
Well, it's good to be able to understand things you comment. I didn't say Google is an idiotic camera, I just said you need an idiots camera - camera which does anything for you, you just press the shutter.
Google is known for its Auto Mode. But as compared with any phone with manual controls, it fails. There are tons of real life comparisons on YouTube to prove that. But to know that you have to understand anything about photography, which you don't. Which you prove again with your arguments - first about the tiny camera and than about RAW. It's obvious none of these opinions are yours actually.
Now, about the photo you enclosed - maybe your phone is broken, I don't know. Never seen anything like that, and I was never able to fail like this although I've made thousands of photos.
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It's clear that you're just a blind Sony fan pretending to be a really cool professional photographer using highly sophisticated, for clever people only, MANUAL mode and .... "professionally" taking photos by smartphone camera . That pretty muck explains everything. You made me laugh, man. I like you for that . I just say it again, Xperia 5 has subbar camera system suitable for Sony fanboys only. An not only Pixel 1 or 2 but also most modern Chinese phones like Huawei, Xiaomi and Realme do much better job with their camera than glorious Sony Xperia. Unfortunately that's the brutal truth. And you have to suck it up and go on with Xperia 5 - the choice of professional photographers .

WarVic said:
It's clear that you're just a blind Sony fan pretending to be a really cool professional photographer using highly sophisticated, for clever people only, MANUAL mode and .... "professionally" taking photos by smartphone camera . That pretty muck explains everything. You made me laugh, man. I like you for that . I just say it again, Xperia 5 has subbar camera system suitable for Sony fanboys only. An not only Pixel 1 or 2 but also most modern Chinese phones like Huawei, Xiaomi and Realme do much better job with their camera than glorious Sony Xperia. Unfortunately that's the brutal truth. And you have to suck it up and go on with Xperia 5 - the choice of professional photographers .
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A classic - personal insults instead of any real argument. Typical forum dumb..ss. But the fact you can't even make a proper photo because you're drunk, doesn't mean the discussion with you is in any way better

No insults or rants against the brand. I gave you real arguments of subbar Xperia 5 cameras compared to Google Pixel 2 / 3 / 4, Huawei Mate 10 Pro / 20 Pro / P30. I used all these camera-phones for more than enough time to compare with Xperia 5.
So personally for you I repeat my arguments against "master of mobile photography" Sony Xperia 5:
- inferior focusing system - slower than others, unable to focus properly to damn often on places where rivals smartphones can do easily,
- painfully slow Camera app start up, Camera app itself is not really good & polished as others,
- no dedicated night mode. Automatic one isn't good enough compare to rivals,
- inability to make night shots in Manual mode without tripod (blurry mess is guaranteed),
- struggle to make any decent photos in extreme or not perfect light conditions,
- camera lenses / glass cover flares,
- not good enough dynamic range,
- inferior HDR mode (little to none difference when it's on), inability to use it in Auto mode,
- "ghost" imaging of moving objects.
I saw all above mentioned issues by my own eyes and this is not something I was expected to come across on Alpha team tweaked Sony Xperia flagship smartphone camera!

WarVic said:
...
Please find attached one of my Xperia 5 photo. It's an epic failure indeed, man. An it's not just a one-off shot. Can't remember that I saw anything like that coming from flagship smartphone camera
....
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Hi there,
Not to argue for or against Xperia 5 camera(s), but I just want to point out that your phone was perhaps defective.
In all the pictures I've done with Xperia 5, I've never seen any ghost image such as in your example, not even at night.
I can however get blurred moving subjects (but no double image) if taken at too slow shutter speed, as is the case with any small sensor camera.
This happens for example at night in auto-mode on Xperia 5 (ex: 1/16): too slow to shoot people, in which case we must set the speed in manual mode to avoid blur (ex: 1/64).
Cheers too!

chgr said:
Hi there,
Not to argue for or against Xperia 5 camera(s), but I just want to point out that your phone was perhaps defective.
In all the pictures I've done with Xperia 5, I've never seen any ghost image such as in your example, not even at night.
I can however get blurred moving subjects (but no double image) if taken at too slow shutter speed, as is the case with any small sensor camera.
This happens for example at night in auto-mode on Xperia 5 (ex: 1/16): too slow to shoot people, in which case we must set the speed in manual mode to avoid blur (ex: 1/64).
Cheers too!
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You could be right but I'm not sure. Can't remember that any of my smartphones had faulty camera in the past. I took photos both in Auto and Manual mode (HDR was enabled, nothing more changed) and that "double images" of moving objects persisted in light conditions a bit different from ideal. Just slight movement of my kids was enough to get unusable photo. Very disappointing. Luckily I sold that phone already and ordered another one. I'll check your suggestion once I get it.
Thanks

WarVic said:
You could be right but I'm not sure. Can't remember that any of my smartphones had faulty camera in the past. I took photos both in Auto and Manual mode (HDR was enabled, nothing more changed) and that "double images" of moving objects persisted in light conditions a bit different from ideal. Just slight movement of my kids was enough to get unusable photo. Very disappointing. Luckily I sold that phone already and ordered another one. I'll check your suggestion once I get it.
Thanks
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Ok. I tried lots of pictures exactly as you explain: HDR ON (both with auto and manual), lots of light in background and a moving subject not well lit. Basically I did a moving person against a bright window.
I did get about 1 in 20 of these back-lit photos displaying a ghost image at the limit between dark and light areas. So I agree the phone still exhibits a little bit of the same issues as was the case in older models.
The algorithm to blend the multiple images in HDR is not yet perfect.
Not sure about the Pixel 4. It's probably better at this. I personally had the pixel 2 and sold it exactly because I was getting consistently blurred pictures of people and animals in HDR mode, much worse than with Xperia XZ2 which I had at the same time. Problem is Pixel 2 could only take nice pictures with HDR enabled, otherwise was terrible quality.
So in my day to day usage, I normally don't get this issue with the X5 which I use mostly in auto mode. Tip: if you absolutely need to avoid HDR in auto mode (besides the obvious advice not to shoot people in backlit conditions), uncheck "Object tracking" in settings, and use your finger to set focus + exposure on your subject before taking the pic. This in effect prevents HDR (Backlit) mode.
So now the only time I use manual mode is for night time shots to avoid blurred faces with 1/32 or 1/64 speed. I just wish Sony would add an option in settings so the user could set a lower speed limit that would apply to Eye/ face detected subjects only.

Thanks for good advises. I'll certainly use them once I get the phone. Regarding Pixel 2, I can't remember getting any blurred / out of focus photos from it. Quite surprised to hear it. Anyway, Pixel 3 seems ironed all the issues of previous models. I still consider it one of the best camera-phones right now. Also it's very cheap now too. Overall it is one of the best phones I've ever had and that's why I decided to keep it as a backup phone. Pixel 4 appeared to be roughly the same thing with worse battery. That was the reason for getting rid of it.
I did enjoy Xperia 5 too though. Hence I gave it one more chance and re-order it. I wish that Sony fix current issues with it or will do it in future. One of them, a very noticeable one, the camera app launch speed and its overall performance. I want it to be on pair with older Pixel 3 one, not any slower. Cheers

WarVic said:
Thanks for good advises. I'll certainly use them once I get the phone. Regarding Pixel 2, I can't remember getting any blurred / out of focus photos from it. Quite surprised to hear it. Anyway, Pixel 3 seems ironed all the issues of previous models. I still consider it one of the best camera-phones right now. Also it's very cheap now too. Overall it is one of the best phones I've ever had and that's why I decided to keep it as a backup phone. Pixel 4 appeared to be roughly the same thing with worse battery. That was the reason for getting rid of it.
I did enjoy Xperia 5 too though. Hence I gave it one more chance and re-order it. I wish that Sony fix current issues with it or will do it in future. One of them, a very noticeable one, the camera app launch speed and its overall performance. I want it to be on pair with older Pixel 3 one, not any slower. Cheers
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I guess now that X5 is getting much cheaper it's still interesting, but I wouldn't expect big software improvements to come except for maybe Photo Pro app if Sony is nice to us.
Personally I think the next version X5 II should bring major improvements in photo and we will soon know if that's true with the X1 II:
Photo Pro app vs current camera app (should bring better speed, stability and features if it lives up to current Cinema Pro app)
Bigger sensors = better low light shots
Faster and better focus (with TOF and dual pixel)
Eye tracking on pets (I have a cat and a dog)
... That's of course if it does indeed come out.

It's good enough.
Overall it's an acceptable camera system. I agree it has some flaws, but I knew that going in. I purchased used on eBay (MUCH more affordable), and of course read and viewed many reviews that outline these flaws. It's good enough for snapshots or Instagram or times when you need a pic of something when your out and about. I take a digital camera with me when I know I am going somewhere that I am going to photograph stuff. One reviewer summed up nicely what the big issue is here; Sony makes camera sensors for a lot of other phone companies and makes some of the absolute best digital cameras in the world, so how did they let this slide?

WarVic said:
I think you completely forgot what are you talking about - what really is a tiny camera on a dinky phone (whatever good and powerful it is) and what's the primary purpose of it. And you're calling the best smartphone camera on the market for quite a while by now (not just my personal opinion by the way) - Google Pixel camera - an idiotic one?! That is complete ignorance and nonsense! You certainly never had a Pixel phone. That's explains everything.
Please find attached one of my Xperia 5 photo. It's an epic failure indeed, man. An it's not just a one-off shot. Can't remember that I saw anything like that coming from flagship smartphone camera.
Good luck with your "advanced, for professionals only" Xperia ). Cheers!
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Click to collapse
Looking at your pictures, i assume you received a faulty phone

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