Database Users

Troubles with Phonearena's Camera Analysis

I'm brand new here but felt that I had to comment as some here seem to be close to hari kiri (sic) over some reviews.
I do feel that the screen will be a little low on colour saturation but it's by no means terrible - and the adjustment options included in the final software should fix this. But what I really want to talk about is the camera.
Phonearena have been especially vocal about how the camera doesn't match up to the competition but I'm absolutely amazed that they've missed a glaring error in their analysis! Because of the boost in mp's and the different focal lengths of each phone, when they're doing a 100% crop comparison, they're clearly zooming in much, much further on the XZ. I don't think it's intentional but if you look at the crops they give, the difference is clear. The XZ i
Now I'm not saying that Sony haven't been a little heavy handed in their compression - they have. BUT if you zoom in comparison shots to the SAME CROP the difference is far less pronounced than some would have you believe. Indeed, if you zoomed in the other shots to the same depth as the XZ zoom they would become a mess of pixels - better defined pixels, sure, but no more usable for it.
Is the camera on the XZ blowing me away? I dunno, I'll put it to the test when I get it. But don't write it off based on comparissons with other phones unless you do the tests yourselves because phonearena have done a half-assed job, frankly.
Your thoughts below, please.

Great observation. I do see the compression as a necessary, temporary downside to putting a 13mp camera on a smartphone. They're probably working on keeping the responsiveness up first; hopefully the compression will get better through software updates.

That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.

nikhiltanwar said:
That Phonearena review was biased.... i tell u why....:
1. They ranked devices on every domain and listed lumia 920 and XZ with least ranking however ... where these two stood out to be better than others ... they skipped raking quite cleverly.
2. They even ranked Lumia 920 and XZ in night mode as bad shooters LOL at them... everybody knows the truth.
3. They even placed 1-2 cheeky discouraging lines in low light mode review about XZ.
4. In Detail they ranked XZ last. that was a big fail even their own pics that were taken... small boards really far away were much readable on XZ than others.
5. They always used superior auto mode in XZ but used manual settings in others..... obviously XZ will be confused in special conditions like a well lit building at night and surrounding trees which are not much in light... use manual settings there and i m sure XZ will tear others apart.
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I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.

I think we shoul wait for more precise reviews like the GSMarena one which is by far, one of the best out there.
But I won't be surprise if the XZ's camera won't match nowadays' best 8 MP standards, Sony has been trailing behind for quite some time now in the Photo department.

yeah that comparison doesn't make any sense both Samsungs where over exposed for most of the photos, big difference in iso use etc etc. clearly done by someone who doesn't know anything about photography

I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.

What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?

Humandroidz said:
What i don't understand is the photos posted by someone here on Google+ definitely looks good.
check these out:
plus.google.com/
photos/110267829736715997848/
albums/5843542135386591041/5843542150197706866?banner=pwa
At first, I thought the photos above are not from XZ. They are really clear, sharp, and vibrant. I don't see noise in them.
They are miles better than what PA and other sites are posting. How could this happen? Different software or versions?
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I have analysed these images... On a bigger screen ..with zoomed in depth... They look good surely... That is why PA have lost it....
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Humandroidz said:
I'm not sure but I think they would get better results with superior auto. I think PA did not use superior auto.
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They used superior auto... In some domains they even wrote it... Never used HDR .... I think superior auto was in most situations... So.many times this superior auto mode gets things wrong... It should be used when u r super noob in photography.... Not in a picture comparison

seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.

rufaz said:
seen that review and i can say it is a total bias.
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That's a common opinion about Phonearena's reviews. Many reviews were considered biased, with results that nobody is able to replicate etc. I wouldn't pay much attention to it - no matter if it's positive or negative.

schecter7 said:
I don't take PA reviews very seriously - specially when it comes to cameras. Somehow they find samsung cameras pretty good which is very questionable - I think. I've owned all three samsung galaxy phones. GS1 camera was horrible, GS2 was average and GS3 is also average. HOX has a better camera, Xperia T is better than both.Xperia Z should be even better. And I don't take pictures with lousy auto mode.
PA reviews are usually good except for the camera part - they simply don't understand photography. If you read their comparison, you can just tell that it was written by a noob.
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I thought I was the only one who shared this view seeing as last year I had the Xperia S & T, S3 & N2 and HOX and for starters I believe Iphone arena claimed the camera on the HOX and Xperia T were mediocre compared with S3 (N2 has same camera as S3 anyway). That was total B.S The camera on the T and HOX and even Xperia S were far better than the samsung cameras both outdoors and indoors and at night, especially indoors with lighting where the S3/N2 cameras became washed out and I tested the camera's vs eachother same angles etc and the samsung cameras were the worst.
I have also compared the camera on the lumia 920 vs s3/N2 in shops and the lumia 920 looks better.
Even looking at the images IPA have done with the Z the images look great.

Its hard to believe all those reviews... Who even knows whether they are giving us true/genuine pictures- its upto the eidtor/reviewer to give us genuine review. Not even their webmaster will know it whether they are genuine.. There were plenty of crtitcism from reader about engagdet's news articles of apple products once... Some times its very clear in the writing the bias towards non-apple news. Who knows they have been receiving goodies and bucks... I was in straight fire @ one ZNet writer after reading his apple article- he wrote like not even a hardcore apple fan wont writer against android phones- blindly.... They all in US... we donno the truth...
I donno much about phonearena... Also i'm not going to expect much from a tiny smartphone sensor whether its 13mp or 44mp... You have to understand the camera sensors first... As the sensor becomes small in size the light goes thru it also less , hence the picture qaulity... Still the best quality sensor gives best results... In smartphone case the photographer has to be very careful and still as much as the object to get nice photos... Image stabilization is there , but its nowhere near of DSLR or other proper cameras.... So each time you take a picture its different although same object , same angle or whatever you can imagine there.... Competition in smartphone arena is to make thinnest phone... as the phone goes thinner camera sensor goes smaller(thinner) too.. otherwise you will see a bump where camera sits (like in pureview).....

gd

My camera showdown! OPO vs Nexus5 vs i6+

Welcome to my camera comparison!
2/15/2015 - Updated to include the iPhone 4s, for people who were offended by comparing the flagship killer to a flagship which is newer and twice as expensive (this, despite all flagships being more expensive than the OPO, and the Nexus 6 for example—which uses the same sensor as the OPO—being both newer and more expensive).
Landscape
Great Lighting
Indoors Person
Indoors Fine Detail
All pictures were taken at highest quality with autofocus. For each scenario I provided a gallery of 8 shots:
- OPO AUTO = OnePlus One, stock camera, Auto mode
- OPO HDR = OnePlus One, stock camera, HDR mode
- OPO GOOGLE AUTO = OnePlus One, Google Camera, HDR disabled
- OPO GOOGLE HDR = OnePlus One, Google Camera, HDR enabled
- 6PLUS AUTO = iPhone 6 Plus, stock camera, HDR disabled
- 6PLUS HDR = iPhone 6 Plus, stock camera, HDR enabled
- NEXUS5 AUTO = Nexus 5, stock camera, HDR disabled
- NEXUS5 HDR = Nexus 5, stock camera, HDR enabled
My thoughts:
If I had to choose one, it would be the iPhone 6 Plus without a second thought. It opens in one second, has OIS and catpures an HDR shot in a split second, captures more low light detail in either mode regardless of overall lighting, and in general it captures fine detail better than the OPO (check the keyboard in the Indoor Fine Detail gallery) or, at worst, the same albiet with better color reproduction. Between the OPO with either camera app, and the Nexus 5, I find the Nexus 5 to be preferable because it has OIS which means I'm able to get more fine detail than the OPO despite the OPO's higher resolution, and further the Nexus 5 is able to pull more detail out of the highlights and shadows of shots that have extremes of both (like a foreground subject backlit by a bright sky). Overall the OPO camera is incredibly disappointing; It takes forever to take HDR shots or Clear Image shots, and I can't get consistently good shots in any mode with any camera app. What's more, the only time OPO doesn't seem like it has an 8MP shooter is in Clear Image mode, which is unfortunately plagued by being as inconsistent as any other shot by the OPO in any other mode with any other camera app. In dim-ish to low light, you'd be better off drawing a picture by hand than trying to capture anything useful with the OPO.

I've taken some really fantastic shots with the stock camera on my OPO, I honestly believe it's just a matter of knowing how to use it and playing to its strengths.
Transmitted via Bacon

timmaaa said:
I've taken some really fantastic shots with the stock camera on my OPO, I honestly believe it's just a matter of knowing how to use it and playing to its strengths.
Transmitted via Bacon
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These camera shootouts and other comparisons have always been useless IMO. The OPO has consistently taken great photos for me; knowing the angles the camera needs to capture more light and using some common sense about where to take photos goes a long way. If being able to snap a photo anywhere is a must for you buy a DSLR
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Renosh said:
These camera shootouts and other comparisons have always been useless IMO.
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It's just an objective demonstration and comparison. If it's of no use to you then who am I to complain. It is what it is.

timmaaa said:
some really fantastic shots...it's just a matter of knowing how.
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I'm not here to talk **** about the OPO camera, even if I do think it's terrible. I did the comparison for myself (and decided to publish it after the fact) precisely because I think it's terrible. So to me it's curious how people are happy to defend it. For example, your statement is the opposite of what a marketing team would want to say, and I'm sure it's the opposite of what smartphone camera software engineers aim for. These are intended to be point and shoot, not for people who "just know how." Per OPO's own ad, it's supposed to take "astounding shots, any time, day or night, without suffering the problems of other cameras." Without a doubt the nighttime performance of this camera is horrendous, but even it's automatic performance falls short. The fact that you have to wrestle it into submission even during reasonable conditions is a testament to how far they missed the mark with this.

.psd said:
I'm not here to talk **** about the OPO camera, even if I do think it's terrible. I did the comparison for myself (and decided to publish it after the fact) precisely because I think it's terrible. So to me it's curious how people are happy to defend it. For example, your statement is the opposite of what a marketing team would want to say, and I'm sure it's the opposite of what smartphone camera software engineers aim for. These are intended to be point and shoot, not for people who "just know how." Per OPO's own ad, it's supposed to take "astounding shots, any time, day or night, without suffering the problems of other cameras." Without a doubt the nighttime performance of this camera is horrendous, but even it's automatic performance falls short. The fact that you have to wrestle it into submission even during reasonable conditions is a testament to how far they missed the mark with this.
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You were claiming you're making an objective comparison yet you were biased from the beginning. Nice try though. You probably half assed your way to get the results you expected.
Using marketing ads to form an opinion is dumb, they'll all exaggerate. Use the camera figure out it's strengths and enjoy it. I don't have the luxury of a secondary phone. Came from a G2 though and it took similarly good photos. Still had to figure out angles and right conditions to take shots, as well as a steady hand helps. Only camera that I've had that was downright abysmal was the Nexus 4.
Next time you wanna compare phones do it for yourself to make a choice on which phone to keep or whatever reason you did it. There are tons of sites like gsmarena that do these comparisons. Once you start comparing anything between phones instead of liking something for what it can offer, it never ends
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

.psd said:
I'm not here to talk **** about the OPO camera, even if I do think it's terrible. I did the comparison for myself (and decided to publish it after the fact) precisely because I think it's terrible. So to me it's curious how people are happy to defend it. For example, your statement is the opposite of what a marketing team would want to say, and I'm sure it's the opposite of what smartphone camera software engineers aim for. These are intended to be point and shoot, not for people who "just know how." Per OPO's own ad, it's supposed to take "astounding shots, any time, day or night, without suffering the problems of other cameras." Without a doubt the nighttime performance of this camera is horrendous, but even it's automatic performance falls short. The fact that you have to wrestle it into submission even during reasonable conditions is a testament to how far they missed the mark with this.
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I'm not trying to defend it, it has flaws, like any smartphone camera does. For example, Samsung shots are over-saturated and look awful. Nexus 5 HDR shots are too aggressive and look ridiculous (but then again, 99% of smartphone users have no idea what HDR is, how it works, how to use it, or even when you should be using it, they just use it because they think the result "looks cool"). Like the other fella said, forget whatever the marketing guys say because they're paid uber dollars to make you want something. They exaggerate, they lie.
Transmitted via Bacon

its amazing what coloros has on camera quality. It blows cm or cm s out of the water
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app

bachera said:
its amazing what coloros has on camera quality. It blows cm or cm s out of the water
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
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And now you can use it on CM.
Transmitted via Bacon

timmaaa said:
And now you can use it on CM.
Transmitted via Bacon
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am testing it haha
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app

Thanks for your comparison. To really compare the picures, I think you guys should download them and watch them on your PC.
I will do so later, so I won't comment on them now.
Speedwise I can say, the opo camera from latest OTA opens in one second too.
I made a small collection of pictures where I think they are caught really good. These are by far not the best motives, just some examples to show what
can be achieved with a smartphone camera. All taken with the standard camera app, some are auto, some hdr, I think it is visible which are which...
Would you call them incredibly disappointing?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/72qofxzgo2d9tjg/AAARPpNIsAQFkFPFAK3k87joa?dl=0
and no, these were not the best shots taken out of 20 made, but basically the only ones I took in these situations, especially at the Harry Potter expo which was really crowded!
Download them, as they are badly compressed when opened through dropbox online.

I can't believe people are so down on this comparison just because of its conclusions. Especially because I agree 100%. Nexus 5 camera was better than the OPO's, which is a huge disappointment to me.
All this nonsense about finding the right angle, etc, is just that - nonsense. Yes, it is good to know the limitations of the hardware and do your best to overcome them, but that doesn't mean the limitations are OK and you shouldn't acknowledge them/"stop complaining".
Both on XDA and the OPO forums there is always a huge amount of backlash against any criticism of this phone and the company, and I think that's really terrible. The OPO is a good phone but it isn't perfect and it and the company are certainly not above reproach.
The OPO camera subsystem in particular was poorly designed. 13mp with 6 lenses sounds great, but without OIS it falls down against camera's whose spec sheets don't read as nice.

The iPhone 6+ should be expected to take better pictures, being a generation newer and 2.5x the cost. This isn't exactly a level playing field.

Renosh said:
You were claiming you're making an objective comparison yet you were biased from the beginning. I don't have the luxury of a secondary phone.
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The comparison is objective. My opinion doesn't bear on the actual content of any given picture, and the fact that reviewers tend to agree with my assessment is just coincidence. I went in open minded because, unlike you, I do have the luxury of having other devices. Here's the thing: almost any camera can take a good shot "sometimes" or "if you use it right", but the reason marketers don't say "this is an incredible smartphone camera sometimes, if you use it right" is because that's basically the same as saying, "as a flagship killer smartphone camera, this misses the mark."
CafeKampuchia said:
The iPhone 6+ should be expected to take better pictures, being a generation newer and 2.5x the cost. This isn't exactly a level playing field.
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What if the iPhone 4s on iOS 6—cheaper and older by far—performs better, or at least favorably? What would you say then? And what about the Nexus 5—older and the same price (cheaper used)?
Anyways, I should have clarified in the OP that I did this comparison for myself because I own the phones and it seemed the OPO camera was terrible compared to my memory of the Nexus 5, so I wanted to test my memory against reality. I only published it after the fact in case others might find value in it.

AcmE85 said:
I made a small collection of pictures where I think they are caught really good.
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Appreciated, but of course we don't know how other cameras would have performed...

I originally came from a Nexus 5, and I agree that for general day to day use I would rather have the Nexus 5 camera. OIS makes a huge difference, and the google camera software works well, however it is quite limited when it comes to features (like setting exposure times and what not, this is where the OPO camera is better). Really not surprised that the iPhone 6+ delivers the best results all around, as this was the consensus among internet reviews.
I honestly think that the OPO's camera performance is moreso a result of poor software optimization more than anything (other than the lack of OIS). I have used CM for previous phones (samsungs, HTC) and I always found picture quality to be worse on CM than on stock software. And for those bashing the comparison, if you are gonna call yourself a "flagship killer", be prepared to be compared to said flagships.

A bunch of crap.
Had a N5 before and the picture quality can't compare. Learn to take pics and don't blame the lack of OIS.
The OPO camera is one of the best ones on Android's out there. Everyone say's that, but there is always some lame cheap ass with a lame crappy test trying to prove everybody is wrong.
And yes my opinion is not gonna change based on biased tests. I had two of the devices compared up there and clearly the N5 camera is a piece of crap on quality.
IPhone > Top tier Samsungs > OPO > lots of devices > Nexus

lordneopt said:
A bunch of crap.
Had a N5 before and the picture quality can't compare. Learn to take pics and don't blame the lack of OIS.
The OPO camera is one of the best ones on Android's out there. Everyone say's that, but there is always some lame cheap ass with a lame crappy test trying to prove everybody is wrong.
And yes my opinion is not gonna change based on biased tests. I had two of the devices compared up there and clearly the N5 camera is a piece of crap on quality.
IPhone > Top tier Samsungs > OPO > lots of devices > Nexus
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I feel like saying "learn to take pics" doesn't make sense - if the OP doesn't know how to take pics, their incompetence is constant over all devices ... in which case the comparison is still valid :highfive:

I didn't come here to defend the OPO camera, I've made a bunch of ****ty pictures with it myself, but in this test I actually like the OPO pictures the most. I downloaded them to check if maybe it's only because I'm looking at a downsized version, but even so they really seem the best.
I actually think this is one of the most OPO favoring comparisons I have seen.
You did name them correct, right?

MarkusLi said:
I didn't come here to defend the OPO camera, I've made a bunch of ****ty pictures with it myself, but in this test I actually like the OPO pictures the most. I downloaded them to check if maybe it's only because I'm looking at a downsized version, but even so they really seem the best.
I actually think this is one of the most OPO favoring comparisons I have seen.
You did name them correct, right?
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Ya they're named properly, I was very careful about that (I'm sure the metadata will confirm as well). Anyway you seem reasonable, you even gave the pictures a close inspection; and I'm not here to fight either, so I'm curious whether you feel the OPO outperformed objectively (and if so, where), or if you just like its pictures best subjectively?
Off topic: I've done the iPhone 4s pictures too now, I'll upload them tomorrow. Spoiler alert: 4s does a damn fine job for a 3.5 year old phone without HDR on a 2.5 year old OS (I keep it on iOS 6 because **** an iPhone 4s on iOS 7 or higher). Figured I'd do it for the haters saying its unfair to compare the OPO to newer, more expensive devices.

HTC One M9 Camera discussion (not for photo samples)

Albert Poon said:
May I ask you guys with M9 to take pics using manual mode? A tripod, phone holder, low ISO, long explosure to take some night views?
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This was missing in the flickr album. Long exposure 1/4, 1/2 or 1s shots. And please use flickr so we can see exifs easily. board attachments and imgur strip exifs out. I notice the phonearena samples have no exifs in them at all.
Though i have to say i like this one. Just enough silhouette to set the mood.
ISO 80 and 1/40 WHAT!!! for late afternoon Seattle in winter. I can't tell if its HDR or not.
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xxquicksh0txx said:
https://plus.google.com/10388377056...6126393456474303042&oid=103883770561517758752 Link to the beetle picture on his Google+ with a resolution of 1108 x 625. Definitely cropped/compressed
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Taken with VSCO cam, ISO 50, 1/268. So ample light.
Also used flash. Sharpness is set to soft.
A nice photo.
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vegetaleb said:
Here a comparison of crop between M9 and Note 4 in not very low light conditions taken by the Tweakers review, you can clearly see the superiority of the Note 4 in the details like the logos of Goodyear and the wheel:
I know it's not final software but this M9 camera is giving the same results the SE C905 could give 6 years ago
M9
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Note 4
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Note 4 is ISO 400, 1/10
M9 is ISO 640, 1/14
About half a f-stop difference.
What if the M9 tried to get that with ISO 300 ie ISO 200 +0.3 at 1/7 ? or go slower still ISO100+0.3 at 1/3 ? can't do these tricks with the note, slowest it will get is 1/8 and then its auto night mode kicks in which did not happen in this picture. S5 & note 4 have improved their low light capability over their predecessors in auto but i bet you can come close to matching it if not exceeding it with manual on m9.
Light in this shot is quite low btw.

th3 said:
This obsession is what makes every product better in every field, than its predecessor.
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That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
Without this obsession, there can be no better or worse product, and you'll still be saying "good enough" to the HTC Desire camera
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with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
What you're saying... 'Moving the goalpost' it's called. Common trick.
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no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
Your opinion is not supported by the data we all have.
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That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
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tryfound said:
No, your whole post is invalid. I'm testing AUTO, feel free to grace us all with your superior photography skills when you get your M9.
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actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
vegetaleb said:
At last a camera comparison between M9 and Note4 http://www.phonearena.com/reviews/HTC-One-M9-vs-Samsung-Galaxy-Note-4_id3963/page/3
In daylight the Note 4 is significantly better, the M9 will smudge
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Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
In low light even resized to 640x480 the M9 is very blurry and smudgy, the Note 4 is millions years ahead.
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All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Conclusion: unless you want to use your photos only from daylight situations and only resized to Facebook and other social medias (of course no crop at all) . you should consider the Note 4 as a very good choice of camera phone in every situations.
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Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.

tryfound said:
You're so full of yourself. How dare I waste your precious time.
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Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
Make up my mind or sell? Sell what? Some people here asked to see comparisons with the Note 4 and I gave them.
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And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
To suggest that I should be tweaking manual settings on an M9 to achieve the quality of the Note 4's auto shots is beyond comprehension.
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Click to collapse
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
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Click to collapse
I just looked at images and they look really good. I am surprised M9 managed to capture that pristine detail I never seen before. White balance too looks so great not like previously green tint that was all over images.
One thing I am not able to find is camera data in adobe bridge and also colour space is untagged. That usually happens when photo being stripped of exif data. Have you by any chance gave some editing to them?
Thanks

I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations. The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used . This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.

nebulaoperator said:
I agree with a pack that camera should perform to the best on auto. If it doesn't , software has to be optimised if it's not then it's engineers faults Or hardware limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.
it applies to the majority of the smartphone photographers . People want point and shoot.Even being enthusiast photographer and love digging my camera and phone camera I hate when auto underperforms when I simply want to take my phone out of the pocket and shoot.Every enthusiast can tweak but that defeats AUTO purpose .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.
There are average performers good and very good. Unfortunately M9 is not very good.Good ? Maybe....if light is favourable...at the moment it is consistently weak in certain situations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.
The usual wash out reminded me of the spill that when lets say camera lens gets in the studio shot or outside and for this purpose hood is used .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.
This is one of the speculations I come up with. Somehow HTC phones consistently suffer from that. Could be they have same team of engineers that can't find the key to successful Software optimization or not so decent hardware just guessing here. Being visualphile that particular trade off with HTC devices just kills me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.

Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA

tryfound said:
Some more shots with the M9, large res then small res second. Had to use imgur because of filesize so these are compressed images, don't bother zooming for details, some of the higher res images I took have been reduced to a size smaller than the 'small' res images due to their original filesize, I guess that's imgur's way of compressing.
http://imgur.com/PeWfBMx
http://imgur.com/CNrpmW7
http://imgur.com/fOi00v3
http://imgur.com/dMQ1yXV
http://imgur.com/JmvdebB
http://imgur.com/MnF3Fue
http://imgur.com/2AtDjvr (HDR)
http://imgur.com/mP0g0aP (HDR)
http://imgur.com/NApwPvt
http://imgur.com/U8yHyuV
http://imgur.com/i04j8vr
http://imgur.com/1FPUAw7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jauhien said:
Some yesterday snaps here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we88grvt72bldy8/4PDA_REQUEST.zip?dl=0
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Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
.
Disclaimer: I should learn how to use quotes.
I've seen this issue with other devices. xperias camera software was never quite ready at launch. Lots of bashing. Took them a few months to get it right. Mostly auto. Then shots come out with lower ISO which you could have got yourself if you tried. Image quality is better now. why ? iso is lower. So if auto is taking high iso then low iso will get you a better shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
[/QUOTE]So when people say camera is not working its auto. No other issues i can see so far. They will fix it but in the mean time if manual settings are tweaked you will get the results you want today. Most do not know how to do that or worse do not want to.[/QUOTE]
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .I own M7 and know it's weaknesses.And I don't want to use manual though I know my phone from inside to outside.
[/QUOTE]General advice i give to people who cant take photos is go with the koreans or apple. if you want more then look at others.
First time i came across an iphone camera after seeing the usual controls in nokias and android was wtf do i do with this. Some shots can't be got with auto. when there is no access to manual then you are stuck. take it or leave it. its only a phone camera, you're not supposed to do anything more. Who said so ?
Many people take shots and figuring out who is at fault is a tricky business. Of course the tendency is to blame the device but the person taking the shot is the most responsible, always.[/QUOTE]
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste. I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
[/QUOTE]Low light with auto. From what i've seen consistently boosts auto up. There are even night modes which to date i've not seen anybody even try. HELLO!
So auto is not picking these modes for some reason. Its a bug. But if you set it yourself then what is the result. Much better i bet.[/QUOTE]
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
[/QUOTE]A lens hood decreases lens flare and saturates colours. Take a shot in shade of a sunny area. If you're getting lens flare then its clearly user error. Not just with this device but with any. I would just use my hand out of camera to block some of the light or avoid unwanted reflections. Here is a good example
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmsolo/sets/72157651089646798/with/16274675233/
cloudy day, massive light box in the sky. Colours are all rich. Which is best. i cannot tell
interestingly enough the low end devices suffer less from this problem because the sensors are not as sensitive. They can take good shots in awful bright light which would be washed out with more capable sensors. Not much use indoors though.[/QUOTE]
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
[/QUOTE]
The ones typically from what i've seen blow out the sky. They are a little more quirky in getting those blue skies. Overexposed. HDR is one way to do it but it can be tricked also. i remember this work around from the m8 forum where this guy pointed close to the sun to lock exposure and then recomposed back on the scene. The picture was remarkably better. You don't have to do this all the time only in certain situations.[/QUOTE]
AE/AF is a very handy tool. I am glad smartphones have this simple yet very effective feature.

Quadrider10 said:
Review on bunch of cameras.
Gizmodo: The Best Smartphone Camera: Samsung Galaxy S6 Edition. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw4ZO08yA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't think the M9 looked bad. Need to use a computer instead of my note 4
Sent from a mobile gadget...
---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
And guys, chill out. I don't think M9 will have the best camera, but it will hopefully be enough. What I'm worried about is the speed of the camera and SOT. I will probably buy it anyway because I love HTCs mix.
Sent from a mobile gadget...

You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
One Twelve said:
Look, you're not helping me, i'm helping you to help yourself as well as others in this thread.
And i'm pointing out why there were inadequate. They do not add anything above what reviews are saying.
I did not bother going through the imgur stuff since there are no exifs to see there. Assessing image quality let alone commenting without exifs is pointless.
auto shots are average x average, is this what people base their opinions on ?
manual means you take a test auto shot then see whether you can improve it in manual. That is how you will exceed what the reviews have shown and we get to see the best this camera can do. This is what any owner that wants to improve and exploit manual is going to do over time.
Why someone would not want to improve his shots is beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One Twelve said:
That pair is not as important as you think it is and that applies for all with good light.
Where this 'trounces' occurs is in low light. I've already said what needs to be done.
with macros yeah i would because there is no difference there. I've seen three year old devices do excellent macros. Hint: macros are not a good demonstration of what the latest camera can do.
The only real innovation we've had in sensors is BSI over the last two years. More sensitive in low light. You couldn't do that with 2013 devices, m7 was the sole exception. The rest is processing, how much of it or lack thereof.
On a more general level the trick with these devices is to know when to compromise and when to be maximalist. There is no perfect device so what you end up with is what you can tolerate over what you cannot do without. Every device has this trade off. Unfortunately you are alone with making this decision. Unless you are lucky to find others whose requirements match yours closely. Now do you see why i said minor. its minor in a larger context.
no tricks. calling it straight.
i don't trust auto.That on some devices its always flawless is a myth. auto goes wrong even on dslrs. what will you do then ? blame the device or your own ignorance. better to understand why and what went wrong and then fix it. and you can.
What i'm sensing here is an unwillingness to do so. That is something else.
That does not make what i said wrong. Its up to people here to provide that data. particularly low light with manual.
Its right because i've seen the same done with numerous devices already. This is how cameras work. They need light.
Give them that and you get a good shot. simple.
---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
actually i should have said your tests were pointless and it was a waste of my time to go through them. test the note 4 in low light with manual in m9 that's what you should have done.
I wanted to see manual being used in the low light. You've got no excuses when the camera provides it. If you can't do that then its your problem not the m9.
bad auto does not mean bad camera. bad auto will be fixed. The Z1 took 3 months to get it right. What did people do, the lamers whined whereas the rest got busy with manual and got good shots from day 1.
make up your mind or sell.
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------
Show me smudge in daylight, i want to see how much. actually link the shots.
All the low light shots have the m9 using high iso in guess what auto. The reviewer did not even try manual and blurred one of the shots because he could not hold a 1/7.
Do you realise that to display on a HD device you only need 1MP or on a full HD it only takes 2MP. Anything more than that gets resampled.
You don't let facebook or anybody else resize it you do it yourself then upload wherever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent using Tapatalk

th3 said:
You're not helping anyone mate. Pig with lipstick is still a pig. No matter how much spin you are putting on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Went right to the end for the punchline
I'll have the M9 31st March. Then, we'll see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah so despite the s6 camera 'trouncing' the m9, you actually went in for what ? .....<drum roll>....the M9 <applause>
Confirms what i said earlier, the image quality differences weren't enough to deter you.
Lame apologist excuses don't hide that. If you can do x with M9, you can also do better with S6/iP6/N4 etc starting from a better base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah so why didn't you get one of them then ? riiiiightt. Why the narrow obsessions with image quality somehow don't pan out in the end. Bigger forces at play.
With ip6+ and 3rd party camera with manual controls. you can improve over stock auto. With the same on the iP6 or even iP5x and a steady hand you can come close if not match the plus.
S6 & N4 or even the G3 don't offer shutter speed control so there is no way to tell how effective their OIS is, its just stated and i believe its there but no way to tell like say with the iP6+ that can do a 1/4 handheld. Night mode on the recent samsungs is good. Much improved over earlier versions. They boosting sensor gain and fiddling around. To get a similar shot would require an exposure two times longer with other devices including the m9. So you will have to work at it.
No idea when raw support will come for the above. But i bet you get it on the m9 before them. Your details issues will disappear at that point but you have to process each image yourself.
Everything you are saying is your subjective opinion not backed by any reviewer or already debunked. No data at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you do not understand that delaying shutter and lowering iso will improve image quality in low light ? This applies only with stationary subjects btw, forget doing it with people or anything that won't sit still.
Sop with any camera that allows manual control, i can show you manual lumia 930 vs note 4 where it gets pretty close and auto did not. When more people post later you'll see what i mean.
I'm most interested in the low light shots and rarely bother with daylight comparisons because they are pretty similar. In fact my problem with smartphone cameras is too much detail strange as that may sound. because it makes isolating subjects harder. Everything is so damn clear. Because its the equivalent of an f11 lens in 35mm speak. Depth of field is deeper. Great for macros but not others.
I don't see any fruit in continuing this back and forth "I think" or "you can do this in software" discussion with you. I, and 99% of users, only care about how the product performs out of the box. A few may go further, with manual. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want better photos what i said works. 99% or not is meaningless. This is xda, do 99 % care about rooting, custom firmwares, or any number of hacks people share here ? So what 99% are you referring to and why do they matter. If anything i'm more interested in the 1%.
what i've said wrt to manual is no different. In fact its common knowledge to anyone who has a clue.
---------- Post added at 04:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 AM ----------
*Emix* said:
https://curved.de/news/galaxy-s6-one-m9-iphone-6-im-grossen-kameravergleich-236192
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Why they didn't use iP6+ ?
1. night shots all soft because iso got boosted on m9. 2nd shot wrong wb for m9. 4th shot all have blown lights, cannot do this without blending.
2. again iso got boosted on m9. second selfie, because background is brighter so iso drops and looks normal.
3. is about where you set exposure.
4. macros are similar. contrast can be improved in post.
5. panoramas, heh all not to my liking because of cylindrical projection. no straight horizontals with such a wide fov.
6. food, can be improved in post or use manual. That ISO is maybe close to 600 try to get it at half.

curiousgeorge1893 said:
Not quite on topic but I've got an M8 coming, I'm ditching my Xperia Z2 for it, is that a good idea do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is it about the Z2 that you don't like ? You'd be trading fantastic video stabilisation for none.
The scene modes should help in low light if you use them right. However the lack of shutter control can be frustrating. A quick tweak can't be done. More trial & error.
I was put off by the 4MP camera as i admit I like to zoom and crop, however I like a phone that is good in lowlight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does 4MP do ? sharpens the mind. You have to think more carefully about what you want to get it right. If you want to zoom & crop then you need to be closer to your subject. if you can't do that then 4MP is out.
Also, I like a phone that offers manual controls and shutter speed, HTC phones are the only ones that do this plus a like a phone that has a good flash and takes photos quickly.
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m8 is a fast shooter in auto. But this gap has been closed with the S6 and the S5 is fast too. Have you considered them ? No shutter control though. Given what they've done may or may not be that critical. These samsungs are primarily auto shooters. If they get what you want great, if not don't complain because you can't do much.
As for similar manual controls the hybrid zooms had them first and optical zoom is a plus. crop in camera not afterwards. K zoom or wait for the successor. Slower though. And apertures are smaller. 3.1 all the way to 6.3. Working OIS.
I was planning on getting a secondhand M9 later in the year but to be honest I am disappointed as I feel that HTC have go fowards then 2 steps backwards with the M9 camera. Whilst it's great it has a higher resolution, the f/2.0 aperature in the M7 and M8 is now f/2.2 on the M9, in my opinion it should have been f/2.0 or f/1.9, also lack of OIS is disappointing and it seems lowlight on the M9 isn't as good as the M8? Very disappointing if so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between f2.0 and 2.2 is a quarter a f-stop. That's like getting a shot at ISO 200 instead of 250. Or 1/50 instead of 1/40. Its insignficant as one or the other parameter will compensate anyway so not really as notable as reviewers make out.
However the m9 isn't as fast a camera as its predecessors.See the camera speed benchmark. Almost twice as slow as the m8. And the Z2 is faster than the m9. Does this matter ? only if you're rushed. And if you are you're not going to get very good shots to begin with. Is the choice no shot or passable. In that case look at an advanced compact with a 1 inch sensor. Much more light, faster lens and better quality. For the same money.

BoneXDA said:
I do notice the white balance shifting sometimes on the goldish side around sunlit areas, and the M9 tends to underexpose in such conditions.
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Click to collapse
I've noticed twice that it gets confused with halogen and neon lights, turning cream and red into green. With a yellow i can see how green can happen by wb adding blue, so just need to use a fluorescent wb or more. But cream into green is inexplicable for me. If its a bug then only a firmware update can fix it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------
curiousgeorge1893 said:
I like the Z2 but not the post processing, it smudges details, I read on here that the Z3 does the same?
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Click to collapse
Whenever camera has to produce a jpg and do it fast it has to make a call between preserving detail (ie more noise) or smoothness (less noise). I've seen smudging happen with vegetation, it happens with all jpg outputting devices to varying degrees. To make larger features look good means smaller are going to appear less sharp. Must have the lowest ISO with a longer shutter that means anything that moves is out unless light is good or smudging gets worse.
Only way is raw but you have to process every image yourself, and its a much bigger file so it will be slower than 4mp jpg.
Compare these two from nexus 5. Jpg vs processed RAW. Pull the full resolution and pixel peep all you want.
The originals come from fv5 site.
You control what should be more in detail or not instead of some average one size fits all algorithm with an impossible task that is optimised for speed by trading off image quality. Image quality here isn't file size but a function of how much luminance and chroma noise is preserved or not.
That algorithm and its implementation is the source of lots of heated argument over which is the better camera. Silly really.

SPreston2001 said:
The whole camera comparison may be silly, but 90% of users just want to pick up the phone and snap good pics. Most users don't fiddle around with the camera settings or even know what they do for that matter lol. All they see are which photos look the best when they pick up their phone and take a pic. The M9 camera seems to be alot better than the M8s camera but it still tends to fall behind Apples and Samsungs imaging abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.

One Twelve said:
Then those people should stick with the brands mentioned. Those brands are for people with no interest in photography. WHAT took the shot is more important than WHO took it. That is the mindset auto everything encourages, what did the owner do, just press a button. Still I would not be surprised to find people even on those boards complaining about something or the other.
Where i'm coming from is what if you don't want those brands for whatever reasons. What then ?
You wait for firmware upgrades and you learn how to get better shots. What went wrong and how to get around it.
My attitude is you are stuck with this thing and you are going to have to make the best of it. Few months later you will find people here doing just that. A review can never match it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography?? Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people?? You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings. Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.

gavinfabl said:
This is a photos thread. We need photos! The weather for another day is gales and heavy rain here, so ruined my planned day of shooting again. Using manual settings I have captured some good shots (but private photos of family). Lowering resolution down a fraction helps in lower light. Auto is OK but when I take control even with a single tweak the difference is noticeable. I've used the S6 and S6 Edge and compared it with my Note 4. The S6 has a good auto mode.
This is my S6 and S6 Edge camera shots , and vs Note 4 camera. http://gavinsgadgets.com/2015/03/19...sung-galaxy-s6-and-s6-edge-plus-camera-shots/
I will have more in depth analysis when it's stops raining .....
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Click to collapse
Can't say my experience with the s6 / edge was similar. On the camera front yes the camera is fast. But I found a huge issue with white balance and somewhat heavier than normal post processing (pretty evident when you look at the photos on a camera). The problem is even in pro mode, the camera still struggles with white balance. I am a white balance whore to be honest and when I see a camera struggle, I shudder.
Touchwiz lagged for me. Immensely. I kept flicking through the homescreen, not many widgets above the stock ones, and there were multiple times the device just locked up. Even after rebooting the device quite a few times, there was lag. Off topic, I watched the verge podcast recently and they also affirmed a lot of the lag I experienced with my model.
So far, I'm semi disappointed. The devices are light (like physically, I expected something much heavier). The GS6 felt boxy and somewhat sharper for my tastes while the Edge just "fit" in my hand like a really nice glove. I was stunned that the edge was the more interesting feeling device. Both devices are fingerprint magnets though almost to the point of being disgusting. After 10 minutes of handling, I was in awe with the amount of smudges and oil the back of the device accrued from general handling.
Handling is something that the Edge excels in for the most part. It feels "natural" to swipe at an edge point and get a hamburg menu from Google. And you do in GMAIL, Google Play, and a myriad of other areas. It just feels like touchwiz didn't necessarily provide too many gesture driven tasks that would really take benefit of the edge display. II mean sure you get the call context menus and the light up gimmick, but that's about it sadly. The shame of it all is that above that, the GS6 is a beautiful iphone 5-5s ripoff and the Edge is something of a quagmire begging for a developer to put it to good use. It can be obtrusive but not so much to the point it ruins the user experience.
Overall, I'm left somewhat underwhelmed with the devices. Sure, the screen is gorgeous with marvelous viewing angle fitting for a flagship. But it feels like the GS6 / edge is a iterative step in a unique and bold direction that didn't fully deliver.
Shame actually. Most people will love the GS6 / Edge. Me, I'll be forever disappoint

SPreston2001 said:
So HTC phones are for people who have interest in photography??
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What purpose is there to provide manual controls then ? nokia started this btw.
Lol they usually have the worst cameras amongst flagship devices yet theyre for photography minded people??
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its a mindset that comes naturally to those that are into photography. They are going to try a great deal more before throwing in the towel.
Very obvious when i see Jesse's photos. You make the shot not the camera. newbies whenever they see a nice photo always want to know what camera took the shot. The person, well he just clicked. How hard could it be. They like to hide behind their cameras. Often i see shots that are horribly taken and well it was the camera's fault.
HTC is a bad camera with people who cannot take a photo. I've never bought into the 4MP was bad. A full HD screen can only display 2MP anyway. if you're not zooming or need to then you're focus is on how nice the shot looks rather than whether you can count hairs on somebody's head. I've seen people post nice photos here. if you need to crop your photos then you ain't thinking about your shots or your use case exceeds what 4MP can provide.
You act as of HTC is the only manufacturer that has the ability to tweak the camera settings.
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lets be clear on what manual settings i'm referring to here. Who else offers shutter speed control ?
apple only woke up to the fact in their latest OS. prior to which you could do squat cos um turtle neck deemed it unecessary. Nokia had them early and the cheapest lumias 635 ? do too. samsungs don't not even in their latest. neither does moto, or LG which went backwards with the G3 or Sony. The Chinese provide some more. So yeah HTC since the m8 was the only android offering on a fixed focal lens that offered shutter control. Makes it easy to fix things if you were so inclined. Samsung's galaxy camera is the only other that can claim to have had it first on android earlier and its a compact.
Most "serious" photographers won't use a cellphone to take a pic. The whole idea of cell cams is to capture quick and beautiful everyday life pictures. The ability to tweak the settings is just a added bonus for those who want to get a little more serious with it.
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A cam is a cam and you can learn photography with any cam and play more with one that allows manual settings. I don't have a DSLR because i've not got to the point where i need one. I take shots every day and i like to tweak them because auto cant get it right. Its very normal to have access if not always necessary. But i'd rather have them and not need them than the other way around.
If you drive a stick shift you won't enjoy driving a cruiser.
But to each his own I guess. When it comes to cell cams I just wanna pull it, out take a pic, and expect it to look good. If tweaking the settings to get the perfect shot is for you then that's fine. But all I'm saying is those same things can be done with other manufacturers cams too.
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I never expect it to look good, if it does then conditions were perfect and i was lucky, i will usually take a auto shot and if it fine leave it at that or try to tweak things about and take a couple more. I always try to take more than one. A phone is going to get thrown into so many varied situations that would challenge a pro. To expect to get it right in one take with a phone camera when pointing at anything you can think of isn't realistic.

nebulaoperator said:
Whether it's ISO OIS or else it does not stop camera to perform well. Take A look at Iphone 6 it works wonders. Low light is not on the par with M7 m8. The thing you have to understand , strongly camera orientated phone should not come with a sticker on the box " want a better image use manual"
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A tweak here or there will always improve a shot. How many people know that. Then there is the question of will. if its there and you don't use it then its not the camera's fault. It is there for flexibility.
iphone 6 no, but 6+ will get shots at 1/4. Apple thinks slower than 1/12 is not feasible for iP6. To go slower than 1/4 have to use 3rd party soft to tweak things. iphone camera has always been capable but until ios8 there was no way to access camera parameters so low light was never good.
I saw ifone users don't even know AE/AF lock exist till I showed. Iphone 6 has the simplest UI that can be invented I also call it Dummy proof. I think you can get an app to have access to tweaks option otherwise it's a bit limited to my taste.
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yes its useful there is also a way to do some exposure comp but it changes metering to spot from average or whatever apple equivalent is. A review was comparing 6 & 6+ and saying photos looked better with 6+ until i saw the exifs and pointed out both were using different metering. So of course shots will look different.
With the latest ios you have much more options than before. Curious apple did a u turn there. But not stock just with 3rd party software.
A lot people say because AUTO doesn't work. Why would I have buy "they will fix it" if I pay 500-600 GBP for a phone. It doesn't work like that. And in most cases software improved performance but only to a point .
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So wait for a few months then decide. As for firmware improvements. If you take a shot with firmware a at ISO 200 and compare with firmware b at ISO 200, there will be little difference.
What i mean is they can lower ISO for lower light shots so it does not boost it so high. This will improve auto some. But to go further it requires manual. Possible now, if somebody would try.
They can improve white balance with auto but it will get tricked some times so only up to a point.
I can blame phone camera without long hesitation for two reasons: if hardware sucks or software or both. Then no amount of tweaks can help you. M7 is notorious for washouts, poor dynamic range. I found HDR was never a strong suite of M7 neither M8 or M9. However if you can tweak settings you might get away bringing images to photoshop. That's what I do. On the other hand only minority people are enthusiast like we are and the majority should be at least faulted for what smartphone manufacturer didn't do in the first place. If iphone , nokia, samsung(from 2014) proved there is a lot more that can be done with camera.
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They are trying to make it easy for the average person in the hope of selling more products. The traditional way is to learn how to use the product. I know the washouts you mean, blown skies etc. But once a person is aware of that you can improve it.
Low light was nevera weak spot for HTC One line(until now M9) it was cloudy weather condition with little contrast, also situation when I have half frame window in and the other half room. It would go into extremes overexpose the light in the window or underexposedarks barely visible. Sensor and software is not coping with dynamic range. I kind of like night mode but found it to slow in some situation due to the shutter speed so I just used normal mode it did great though. I wish I could try RAW mode but unfortunately I am selling my phone today ( Not sure if RAW will be brought to lollipop for M7)
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So what are you getting ?
freedcam can already output raw on m7 & m8 and by the looks of it m9 too. htc made this easy.
I worked with photographer who used hood for the headshots and it was game changer.
For instance Iphone6 is least prone to that error but most Android camera phones I came across are. I was surprised by Note 4 results and S6 I would never think they can do so well. So it must be bug or hardware or both as I mentioned earlier. Nice photos from M9 but WB is somehow a bit off sometimes on the blue side( couple of weeks before it was to yellow green Funny enough you are the first I came across that used hand to block the light I do that too. I guess we both come from the same/similar trade.
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It was an accidental discovery. I was taking shot of somebody outside the house from inside with a tab (!) and wondered why the clothes were so saturated.
There is something up with the m9's WB i can see from numerous photos. But nobody is trying manual to fix it.
Was looking at latest world press photo contest. Many with pro dslrs and i saw one person entered an iphone photo and its in the list of winners. Out of 95k entries !!! smartphone photo..Can you believe it

Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least

twoeleven99 said:
Lol this thread is very entertaining to say the least
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So what's your take on the M9 pictures, if I may ask?
Sent using Tapatalk

How good is the camera when someone is moving, specially kids?

So I myself own a Z3 compact that has been amazing, I love everything about it, now, I have an aunt that wants a good phone to take pictures of her kids, but the issue is that kids are always moving, so with the ads that say this has the fastest auto focus, and specifically the video ad shows a parent taking pictures of his daughter jumping around and while for me, I enjoy the Z3c, the camera it's not that good when someone is moving. Can anyone with little kids confirm this, all she wants is non blurry subjects on the photo.
I was considering the gs6 but I would rather go with Sony to support them.
Thanks everyone.

In my experience with a 4 year old, pictures turn out blurry if she is moving. I've only used automatic mode as most of my shots don't allow me the time and luxury of setting up an ideal manual mode. Perhaps manual mode can handle action better, but auto mode is not good for action.

The camera is extremely blurry and the horrible shuttertime makes this otherwise fantastic phone useless for taking pictures of kids. The moment will pass and a blurry useless picture will be the result. I have these 3 phones which all take fantastic pictures of my kid.
iPhone 6s
Samsung s6 Edge
Lumia 950(possibly the best i have)
Dont buy the z5 compact if you want great photos.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I've got both S6 and Z5c. You have to turn Sports mode on to capture movement, otherwise both phones will result blur. Focusing indeed S6 faster and more accurate because of existing Z5c software not yet a mature version, I think it will get improvement when Android 6.0 to arrive later.
The best thing on Z5c is the stock camera remember your last setting, so you can always set Sports as default(I think I'll more recommend Z5c for this reason). On S6 every time you have to click on Mode and pick Sport, pretty time consuming.

Camera is useless with kids, takes great pictures if you can make your kids sit still. But that's not the shots you want, you want to capture moments and thats not possible.

you can try motion shot

I can also confirm that the camera is absolutely useless in whichever option you pick! Really disappointed in Sony (again). Bragging: yes, delivering: no.

I will pitch in, Yeah the camera is cack. Any less than full daylight and they just come out blurry or noisy. Can't say I am surprised. At least I won't rue loosing the DRM keys when I unlock the bootloader, as I don't see how the camera could be much worse.

Recording video is better than my g4. However, photos are better in g4
Enviado desde mi E5823 mediante Tapatalk

Coming from a LG G2, I am pretty happy with the Z5C. But if you have a Z3C, I think you'd be getting pretty much the same experience. It is unfortunate that the shutter speed can't be set manually in the standard camera app. I haven't tried 3rd party apps, as I mostly get the photos I need of my kids (also indoors) with Sonys app. Of course, blur depends on shutter speed which depends on the amount of lighting that you have - possibly I have more lighting where I live compared to the posters above.
On my G2 the problem was that it had OIS - knowing this, the phone defaulted to a slow shutter speed to take advantage of the OIS. Which obviously doesn't work when it is the subject and not the photographer's hand that is moving...
Will try Sports mode more myself after reading the suggestion above.

Luckily Sony's open source camera driver will allow to fix all the... strange decisions they've made in the default camera app.

The focus problem on Z1~Z3 finally get fixed and with camera 2.0 image quality is reasonable now, just the video quality still not clear enough which clearly a software issue. Sony tends to has realistic WB and exposure which I much prefer over Samsung/LG/Apple, others phone always with over saturated color(though some actually like it).
It's already the best camera phone without OIS I've ever used, overall it's still worth to upgrade. Sure it won't beat S6/G4 with OIS at low light. I understand at this price a new phone now have no OIS is very suck, this is my last Sony too if no OIS.

karimero said:
I can also confirm that the camera is absolutely useless in whichever option you pick! Really disappointed in Sony (again). Bragging: yes, delivering: no.
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zakiwashi said:
I will pitch in, Yeah the camera is cack. Any less than full daylight and they just come out blurry or noisy. Can't say I am surprised. At least I won't rue loosing the DRM keys when I unlock the bootloader, as I don't see how the camera could be much worse.
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Agree. By far an away my biggest disappointment with this phone. I have now resorted to the machine gun principle - if I have to use this camera. Take loads of shots in the hope one will be OK. However my preference is to avoid using it altogether.
To my mind a decent phone camera has to be point and shoot, with a high rate of keepers in the shots. Unfortunately I find most of the pics from my Z5C are plain average. I have nothing good to say about it.

Overall love

Yes, yes, it's possible to love a phone. Heck, you sleep next to it, don't you? Rate this thread to indicate your love for the Sony Xperia 1 II, all things considered. A higher rating indicates that the Sony Xperia 1 II is an incredible phone that you enjoy tremendously. You love it.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

One of my all time favorite phones / camera's
So I have been able to play with and use the xperia 1 ii for over 4 days.
this will be a short review and perhaps I will add to it at a later moment.
Main Things I Didn't Test
* Gaming
* Video
Look and Feel
I personally really like the look and feel of this phone. It has some iPhone 4 qualities to it. By which I mean it feels like a device/tool with nice buttons, very high quality materials. It feels like a tool, like a device that is build for usability rather than build for the wow factor (if that makes sense).
It doesn't have a crazy high screen to body ratio. So something like S20 (or the S10 i used previously) is a bit more awe inspiring. But as soon as you slap a case on a S10 this will disappear any way. But what it has is a uninterrupted screen with no notches or punch hols, it has two front facing high quality speakers. It is function over form rather than form over function. That is not to say that it is not a good looking device it is very nice build it look really great. Although I'm not a fan of mirror polishing but you will not notice that as soon as you slap a cover on it (and it looks way better than the ugly blue s10). I have the official Sony case with stand which will still allow you to see the very nice sides of the phone; they are beautifully machined and have a nice color (especially with the purple one).
The buttons of the volume and the power feel really nice, they have a reassuring click to them. The only thing I'm missing is a click for the shutter button. Perhaps it is not implemented to make sure you don't move the phone while clicking. This has a bit of a downside when you don't have a shutter sound enabled. As the camera is crazy fast and it is therefor hard to see / notice if you took the photo or not. A click would have been nice. But when using the phone more often I got used to it.
Screen
The screen is absolutely amazing especially in creator mode. Colors are very accurate and it is a real joy to watch media on this phone be it movies, clips or photos. Because of the very high PPI reading news or books is possible with small letters it basically looks like it is printed. Compared to my old s10 which has a amazing screen as well I prefer the Sony as it has such natural colors and this printed feel to it. Also the colors are good with low luminescence something the s10 could not manage. That being said the max brightness is a bit less than the s10 and I feel that the display is a bit more reflective. But this could be caused by the fact I keep the brightness down with the Sony as thing look really good with low brightness. That being said I did not encounter any problems reading the screen outside on a bright day.
The screen ratio is really handy. I never used split screen a lot on previous devices. But since it is slightly taller than a s10 (while having the same width) it makes more sense to use it and I use it for more often now (watching YouTube while messaging). I don't feel it is a big phone. It is a bit heavier than the s10 but also it feels better build than the s10. Compared to a Note 10+ the height is similar but the width is significantly less.
Sound
Front facing speaker are great far better than the S10 or any other phone I used. Switching on Dolby Atmos is mandatory as without it is not that good. You really have stereo sound and both speakers are equal in terms of loudness positioning and quality.
The sound quality from the audio jack is good and you have quite a lot of options to set the sound to your tasted. As I mostly use wireless atm I have not tested this comprehensively.
Speed
It is fast, sometimes notably faster than the s10. I think is mostly because of faster memory as I don't to that much cpu intensive stuff. That being said I think the most phones for the last couple of years are fast enough for most of the tasks any way.
5G / reception
5G works no idea if it is faster than 4g. didn't run any test as 4g didn't give me any problems. Reception seems to be very good at least better than the S10. Some places where I did not have a great reception or didn't have any reception with the s10 I do have with the 1ii. Maybe this could be because of 5G (as it uses multiple connections), or maybe not, I have no Idea . WiFi is stable and fast. Bluetooth as well.
Call quality.
It is great, voice is really good, again better than the s10
Battery
it is good, I'm a heavy phone user as I use it for lot's of reading, emailing, work stuff, music and YouTube. No complains and even slightly amazed considering is has "only" a 4000Mha battery
Camera (and a little bit about pricing)
Properly the most important part of this phone it the camera. As Sony did not release a "cheaper" version of the phone with 64GB like the iPhone 11 pro it is a very expensive device and the camera is it's main selling point. Although you could argue it should be compared with a 11 pro max which makes the Sony cheaper than a iPhone 11 pro max (256GB) or similar priced to the 64GB version. I don't understand reviewers that give a lower rating because of the price. It should be compared to an 11 pro (max) or S20+ / Ultra. Personally I think it comes out ahead in many comparisons to these phones. The 1ii is a "pro" phone with a pro price. But than again a "pro" phone is a silly concept to begin with (the only pro phone I ever used was the blackberry passport, best professional / work phone ever, but bad at anything else).
First a small disclaimer. I didn't use the android camera at all (only for scanning a QR code) as you get a photo pro app which should be used if you buy this phone. Secondly I like photography I have used many camera's over the years and also may phones. Up till now my two favorite camera phones where the Lumia 950XL for color and the Mate 9 for b&w photography. The Lumia still amazes me to this day and Nokia/Microsoft did not get enough credit for there work. It was the only phone I knew that could really capture light. Also I don't care for AI powered camera apps. I understand that this is really handy if you just make snapshot and don't care about doing photography your self. I don't care for "HDR" images as all it accomplish is that it removes shadows and makes for a equal brightened image regardless of how the scene looks. If you like these things I'm not sure that this is the phone for you as Google, Samsung and Apple are better at these things
The camera app phone combination is amazing. It really gives you the feel that you are using a camera and more importantly that you are in control. It is a unbelievably fast combinations. For instance; I tried to take a photo of a dog and I was sure I mist it. As he started moving as soon as I pressed the shutter button but to my amazement the camera took the picture, it must have been less than a second between me clicking and the dog moving. I think it might be faster than my RX100m6. If you like to tinker and you know what shot you want and how you want it to look there is not better phone atm. (the Samsung pro camera is highly unusable and Huawei sadly doesn't have Google apps).
The 20fps works really good as well, it is amazing to use on a phone and to be so sure of the results (yes I know I'm using the word amazing a lot). Another surprise is the performance of the digital zoom it is far better than expected is highly usable. Also it is quit nice to have a 70mm option, although I feel that it doesn't perform on the same level as the other two sensor / lens combinations it seems a bit softer and not as sharply focused. The hero of this phone is the main 24mm sensor / lens combo it performs the best and has all the possible options. For the xperia 1iii I would like to see a 50mm included as well. The colors are natural and this gives you the opportunity to post processes the picture your self more easily than say a iPhone or Samsung.
There are some things I would like to see in a software update. Mainly the ability to zoom in normal focal lengths instead of continues (so from 24 to 28 to 35 to 50 etc). To change the shutter sound to a soft click sound. The ability to set sharpness , contrast and saturation. Last but not least RAW support. Also I had a couple of times the app freeze on me but as this is the first version I presume they will fix this.
a bunch of pictures with various focal length and lighting conditions:
https://we.tl/t-8rRytOUylm
Video
didn't really use it and on cnet there is a great review about its video capabilities including a nice short movie. It's great; one of the best reviews ever for any phone or product https://www.cnet.com/news/sony-xperia-1-ii-review-yep-thats-a-real-telephoto-lens/
If you have any questions I will try to answer them (I will not install apps to check stuff )

stefanve said:
So I have been able to play with and use the xperia 1 ii for over 4 days.
this will be a short review and perhaps I will add to it at a later moment.
)
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see link in original post for full rez pictures

Really great feedback, thanks. As a prospective buyer who mainly takes photos of friends/family/selfies, how does the 'shoot and point' on the camera pro app hold up? I'm
a big fan of the portrait mode on my Mate Pro 20, does this phone have a similar mode?

Tmel14 said:
Really great feedback, thanks. As a prospective buyer who mainly takes photos of friends/family/selfies, how does the 'shoot and point' on the camera pro app hold up? I'm
a big fan of the portrait mode on my Mate Pro 20, does this phone have a similar mode?
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I've had the phone for two days. I'd say this is not a phone you'd buy to be "point and shoot" camera. The main camera app takes good photos but not the best. To get best photos, you should use the camera pro app. It is a solid app/camera and I feel like I have a close to DSLR camera in my pocket. Colors are very natural and accurate compared to manipulated photos you get from Samsung or even Pixel camera app. It does have a portrait mode that works fine however in Camera Pro if you learn to adjust focus manually can have similar effect even better.

Thanks for the heads up. Any tweaks you'd recommend to the default settings on the camera pro app?

The pro mode has a auto mode which is quit good. And I used it for a couple of shots I shared. So it can work really well. I guess it is depending on the look of the auto mode settings and if the other pros of this phone are of interest to you

stefanve said:
see link in original post for full rez pictures
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OMG! Sorry man, I'm quite shocked by the quality photos form your X1 II. Seriously horrified! There are a couple of good pics from your sample bunch. All others are out of focus, under / overexposed, low detailed etc. I clearly recognize my personal experience with my current phone - Xperia 5 - hit or miss, around 50% of good outcome. Now I'm fully convinced to not even look at possibility of getting Xperia 1 II . Thanks

Love and Hate from me. Eagerly waited for it since announcement and first adverts. High expectations, not only because of SONY´s promises but mostly because of my experience with and long - term SONY user / devices. Most of my SONY phones delivered good images: my XZ Premium, XZ2 Premium, even my last addition, the X, gives me proper images. Not counting the older device along my lifetime (SE68, W-Series, K-Series and so on). But this MK2 is more Hate than Love. Gorgeous design, screen, speakers. Fast and, finally, more storage (novum at SONY!). But the camera - system is a no-go. Mediocre image quality from all but the main camera, even with the 24 lens it delivers inconsistent material. Videos are simply said...to forget. Focus is a hit and miss game when light conditions are different from sunny - outdoor. From 10 images half is usable, depending what lens was used. Not to talk about the front camera. I just informed Sony about my complain and offered them my image and video material to check it. Dunno if they will give me reply....

WarVic said:
OMG! Sorry man, I'm quite shocked by the quality photos form your X1 II. Seriously horrified! There are a couple of good pics from your sample bunch. All others are out of focus, under / overexposed, low detailed etc. I clearly recognize my personal experience with my current phone - Xperia 5 - hit or miss, around 50% of good outcome. Now I'm fully convinced to not even look at possibility of getting Xperia 1 II . Thanks
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I have to say I really like most out of camera photo's, but they don't sharp the photos or use HDR ( you can switch it on) but I guess in the end is about personal taste. to my eyes they look miles better than anything samsung.
just to show what you can do with the out of camera photos (I hope raw support will be added soon) look at the different versions of two photos.
But indeed this phone is not for some one that wants a camera that " just works"

That's fine then. For me they looks like made by Galaxy S5 really. Old dinky Pixel 1 makes a way better shots straight out of the camera to my opinion. Thanks for sharing photos anyway. You've stopped me from making a very costly mistake.

WarVic said:
That's fine then. For me they looks like made by Galaxy S5 really. Old dinky Pixel 1 makes a way better shots straight out of the camera to my opinion. Thanks for sharing photos anyway. You've stopped me from making a very costly mistake.
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Not sure if you looked at the images attached to the post. but keep in mind that XDA is heavily compressing the images. so pixel peaking is not advisable and I can understand you would say it seems to be at S5 level

stefanve said:
Not sure if you looked at the images attached to the post. but keep in mind that XDA is heavily compressing the images. so pixel peaking is not advisable and I can understand you would say it seems to be at S5 level
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I'm not an idiot or simply blind, mate . I downloaded your archive with full sized images and had a good look at them. Sorry man but it's just complete disaster, "unbelievable" photo quality. And it's not just subjective opinion or a matter of taste. If I spent $1200 on a camera-phone which makes photos like THAT.... I'd return IT without a second thought. It's hard to believe that future patches and fixes will help. Anyway, Sony has a tremendous job ahead. Otherwise I predict mass returns, very poor sales or significant price drop.

WarVic said:
I'm not an idiot or simply blind, mate . I downloaded your archive with full sized images and had a good look at them. Sorry man but it's just complete disaster, "unbelievable" photo quality. And it's not just subjective opinion or a matter of taste. If I spent $1200 on a camera-phone which makes photos like THAT.... I'd return IT without a second thought. It's hard to believe that future patches and fixes will help. Anyway, Sony has a tremendous job ahead. Otherwise I predict mass returns, very poor sales or significant price drop.
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Not saying or thinking you are an idiot, just checking
Funny how different people see different things looking at the same image. That being said if the main reason of this phone is to have a great camera than indeed it's disappointing and it's better to get a RX100V or what ever and a mid range phone for the same money. I guess no phone is worth 1200 it is way to much for any phone and perhaps especially for a android as the long term support is non existing.
I just have fun snapping with it and i am pleased with the output (considering that it is a phone

Noticed gaming performance is dropping, guess I've installed something....
Playing COD, every 10 odd seconds it shows, then goes back to normal.
Notice this in other games to, even silly idle games that should be pulling no demand. One of them even said, drop to low performance mode, your phone is struggling. WTF!
My previous phone, one lower chip model and g card model never had any problems.
Must be done software conflicts, but dunno how to find them

Am I the only one who doesn't see what's wrong with the pictures that have been posted?

They are perfectly fine. But if you are used to processed photos from Samsung, Google or Apple you might not like the look as these are basically not altered by some algorithm.

Burst shot of me Pooch : https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=18Os3AQ2j0TuqaFjJ6c9h-TvFGr2zyIk1

WarVic said:
I'm not an idiot or simply blind, mate . I downloaded your archive with full sized images and had a good look at them. Sorry man but it's just complete disaster, "unbelievable" photo quality. And it's not just subjective opinion or a matter of taste. If I spent $1200 on a camera-phone which makes photos like THAT.... I'd return IT without a second thought. It's hard to believe that future patches and fixes will help. Anyway, Sony has a tremendous job ahead. Otherwise I predict mass returns, very poor sales or significant price drop.
Click to expand...
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This guy is not an idiot either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zevK7xMsYdA&feature=youtu.be
---------- Post added at 03:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 AM ----------
I think the standard photo App is still a work in progress - a rushed unfinished bolt on that is likely to be improved over the next few updates - they wanted to get this phone to market before they lost the window - understandable
I expect improvements and will wait a few months to see if they materialise before I make a purchase
we need to remember what they are pushing in this phone - the Pro Camera availability and I am loving the idea, a new concept in the market
Think of it this way, what if they never included the standard photo app at all and just improved the auto functions of the pro app, that may have been their intention during development but decided to throw in the standard app last minute - you can't please everyone all at once

Geoffxx said:
This guy is not an idiot either
&feature=youtu.be
---------- Post added at 03:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 AM ----------
I think the standard photo App is still a work in progress - a rushed unfinished bolt on that is likely to be improved over the next few updates - they wanted to get this phone to market before they lost the window - understandable
I expect improvements and will wait a few months to see if they materialise before I make a purchase
we need to remember what they are pushing in this phone - the Pro Camera availability and I am loving the idea, a new concept in the market
Think of it this way, what if they never included the standard photo app at all and just improved the auto functions of the pro app, that may have been their intention during development but decided to throw in the standard app last minute - you can't please everyone all at once
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't use someone on the Xperia YouTube channel to counter the comment from someone criticising the quality as it'll just be massively biased towards Sony lol
If it's like the Xperia 1 you'll be waiting forever for the improvements to come so I wouldn't hang around.