Database Users

WOOOT Android will Leapfrog Iphone

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.

I phone killa!

never touched an iphone and probly never will.

phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!

unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about

X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.

phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.

Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.

You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.

lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.

I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.

phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!

The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!

phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Click to collapse
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.

lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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Click to collapse
lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.

WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need

I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?

The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android

Who is getting the Flame?

I'm wondering how many XDA folks have ordered the new Flame reference phone? I was able to check it a few weeks ago and have to say its an even more polished device then the ZTE Open and Keon. I'm looking forward to getting one soon.

bkerensa said:
I'm wondering how many XDA folks have ordered the new Flame reference phone? I was able to check it a few weeks ago and have to say its an even more polished device then the ZTE Open and Keon. I'm looking forward to getting one soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they had a "Flame Mini" with a maximum 3.5" screen and physical shutter button, I'd bite.

The price and specs are to far apart for me to buy, that price I can buy an octa core android phone, $100 max on a dual core even $100 is to much, but willing to let slide. I simply can't justify paying $170 for a dual core when I know for a fact I can get an 8 core for less. I am out on the flame.

I've been thinking about it, especially since my Nexus One is about to bite the metaphorical dust, but I'm not sure. I've grown quite accustomed to Android over the past couple of years, and though I know that rationally, my Nexus 7 can still run ParanoidAndroid to satisfy that part of me, it's quite the jump.
So, possibly. Once my N1 decides it's time to die, anyhow. Should be anytime within the next couple of weeks.

bkerensa said:
I'm wondering how many XDA folks have ordered the new [...] Flame reference phone[/URL]? I was able to check it a few weeks ago and have to say its an even more polished device then the ZTE Open and Keon. I'm looking forward to getting one soon.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
I got my flame last friday. German customs and DHL wanted 52 Euro before they handed the device over to me. So in total I paid now around 170 Euro.
Putting this aside, after 3 days of extensive usage, I can tell following things:
It comes with firefox os 1.3.0.0-prelelease (git commit: 2014-06-16 5c43d012)
Pro:
- Dual Sim capabilities are working nearly perfectly, having my private sim as first one using internet and in/outgoing calls and my buisness sim put into the second slot for receiving calls. Doing a call over the second sim requires to get into settings menu and reassign the outgoing calls to second sim, which is a little inconvenient.
- Hardware seems very well built and due to the weight, the device feels very valueable.
- I like the design
- Firefox OS boots very fast and runs then without any glitches or freezes, it feels responsible like android device with 2.2 ghz processor.
- Applications start instantly, almost no waiting.
- Chatting using various protocols (Whatsapp, jabber, irc) works quite well using apps from marketplace.
- Surfing the web works perfect, especially the scrolling feels so natrual, no noticable delay.
Neutral:
- Battery lasting just about 15-16 hours under normal load (Chatting from time to time, browsing and about 30 minutes of youtube videos), but as I'm usually having a powerpack or usb available wherever I go, this is no real showstopper for me.
Cons:
- The camera. Pictures just look aweful, in case you are not lighten your object with a bulb as powerful as the sun. Pictures with enabled flash are even worse.
- It's hard to search for information, as google always thinks you mean "firefox" instead of "firefox os"
I'll now dig into app development and start "programming" or better scripting some stuff.
kind regards,
--peter;

Mine arrived in Perth, Western Australia on Friday also but I was away at work and so only picked it up on Monday.
Thanks for the brief review, I too like the heft and feel of mine. Not tested the cameras yet ...
The screen cover feels like glass ... I sure hope it is because I haven't been able to find a protective cover for it yet.
I'm trying to "educate" google by attaching FxOS to the word Firefox whenever I search and it seems to help. FxOS by itself doesn't show much (yet!) but the personal "filter bubble" should kick in soon. Some people fear the "Google Filter Bubble" but it is useful in cases like this.
xypiie said:
Hi,
- It's hard to search for information, as google always thinks you mean "firefox" instead of "firefox os"
;
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---------- Post added at 05:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 AM ---------
---------- Post added at 05:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 AM ----------
Those who got their Flame this week, did you unpack it carefully enough to keep the Recovery Cable?
Mine was not inside the box but just loose in the bubble wrap bag. No sign yet of the companion "Emergency Download Tool" software. I hope it's not too far away because I'd like to backup the factory rom the try FxOS 2, help with debugging etc. which of course will increase of probability of temporary "brick" creation.
I found wifi certificates for what seems like our phone where it's described as:-
Company TCT Mobile Ltd.
Product Foxfone One
Model Number Flame
Anyone know whether it's a close enough match to another model in the Alcatel One Touch range to buy covers and screen protectors for it?

Actually if you are a developer and want to port your apps to Firefox OS there is a program that lets you get a Flame for free in Mozilla Hacks hacks(dot)mozilla(dot)org/2014/05/build-your-next-app-with-a-flame/
Yet you have to meet some requirements

Instructions for using Emergency download mode, a link to the Thundersoft Emergency Download Tool software, and instructions for updating the rom, all the way to the still unstable version 2.1 nightly builds.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/Flame
Excellent support from Mozilla and Thundersoft, this phone could become a classic, if this continues.

[Q] Sourcing from China (with Android)

I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet

abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!

simple1i said:
Please note: to date no Chinese Android watches are IP67, even the ones that provide proof of IP certification, I've learned that the hard way
AK-55 is the Z01
The AK-S7 is or looks like ZGPAX S7
I'm sure you have experience dealing with Chinese sellers, but if you don't . .. . be extremely careful, even using Paypal, trust no one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?

x201 model
abuduri said:
Thanks a lot @simple1i.
I have a chicken-egg question ... Which came first - AK-S5 or Z01? Which of these (or among numerous others on Alibaba) is "original" (designed first)? If there is no traceback and everyone is using the same reference design, as long as it works as intended, does it matter? I did get this supplier to show me the watch on skype video (though it doesn't prove anything).
My main question is - if the supplier really has a "fully working version" of S5 or Z01, and is ready to supply - they also say they will do ODM - any experience on their skills to make a custom ROM and change the menu interface to my needs? If not, anyone here willing to build the ROM and interface (paid)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.

simple1i said:
I started looking into smartwatches on XDA from Mar 2014, so my history before then is limited. For me it started with the Omate TrueSmart, their Kickstarter campaign that promised it all and delivered a lie. I could be wrong, but Omate made the watch first (x201) and the rest copied (or someShenzhen firm made it first and Omate copied ) @pizzaman77 - knows the full history of Omate clones x201. But yes, now it does not matter as long as it works.
As for the development, you might get lucky and find that someone is already doing what you want or similar on the Omate forum - search on the Android development threads. I'm not a dev, so I don't if the Chineses sellers have the skills, doubt it. But the Devs on XDA will have. Look at this Omate thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/oma...rom-omate-truesmart-ironman-firmware-t2998434 - lots of dev going on on the Omate and its clones.
@kuronosan - is a key dev, still active, he might be able to help with paid work. You should start with making a new thread in the Omate Dev forum with your request.
@Lokifish Marz - knows a loooot but is not too actives these days
Please keep me informed on your dev plans (if its not top secret ) - i really really want to also buy a bulk order (maybe only 5 to start with) from China and sell them in the UK, but i need to join someone who is ordering in bulk so that i CAN only buy 5 units to start with. The other issue is i would need to fix any software issues first then sell them and if they sell then buy more. Can PM me if you wish. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?

abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yes @simple1i, I will definitely keep you in the loop on the bulk ordering.

abuduri said:
Thanks a ton @simple1i. I will start a thread there.
Do you know any Android watches that fit my Phase 2 requirements (couldn't find any on Alibaba or similar sites)?
I did find a few watches fitting my spec without Android (either Nucleus or similar). Is it advisable to build on those platforms given that Android is now into wearables Reason I chose Android is because I want to be able to easily change supplier and/or watch hardware (looks) later easily and just port the code/functionality rather than getting locked. Else it will become an EXPENSIVE affair later. Am I right in thinking so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?

simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, with 2G. 3G really not needed but if it comes with it, cool. Couldn't find any with android and heart rate on back side, keeping IP67 on the side.
Am currently in Boston (originally from India).

simple1i said:
Yes I'd stick with Android, lots of resources available, gives more flexibility. I don't think Nucleus OS is a viable option yet, it would be too expensive.
I take it SIM is a requirement too? I'll look around, the IP67 is not available yet, maybe the Ironman 3rd generation might be IP67, but the company (Unova) is full of liars, I was ripped off with the 2nd generation, I proved it's not IP67. Other then the IP67 the rest might be available, you'll need to search for it on AliExpress.
What country are you from?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?

abuduri said:
@simple1i ... is Android Wear OS same as Android 4.4 etc running on Z01 (and others) etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found the answer ... http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/what-operating-systems-do-wearable-devices-run-on/
Looks like Android Wear needs a compatible Android phone for it to work.
So, I'll stick with just Android.

General rules with Chinese Android smartwatches
Broken firmware
Major security holes
Little to no official support (this includes the phone side app)
English (or any other language other than Chinese) for the phone app is very rare
Incomplete source code (when you can even get it) that is a generic build pulled from a phone
Inconsistent battery life due to broken firmware
IP67 is more like IP54 if lucky
Poor build quality and QC by western standards
Not Lokifish supported (I've walked away from the industry as a whole until they get their collective heads out of their butts)
kuronosan's time is limited so fixes may be slow
Depending on your needs and goals. Talk to Ingenic. The HW is a little slow on the Newton (SmartQ Z uses it), not sure about the Newton 2. Either way they have source (Linux, Android, etc). The package is small enough that you could design and build a smartwatch that's about the same size as a real watch, but the display will need a new "crystal" to pull it off nicely. Find a compatible round display, and you should be able to use off the shelf watch cases with minor modifications giving you a 200m diver's smartwatch if you do it right.
*Side note
Even with a 1/2 million buy in for 3000 units we designed ourselves, Umeox still would not have provided source code, and little to no support. That's what the Chinese ODM's are like. kuronosan can verify this.

@abuduri - I'm not sure if my reply to your PM went thru? I can't see it in my sent folder. Did you get it?

I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.

I've just started working with smartwatches, but I'm happy to help however I can. I'll be attempting some work on the s8, and I know my way around Android pretty well.

kuronosan said:
I'm still working on stuff for the Omate. I just haven't actually had any free time as of late. I can't just take off of work to put work into a device that's difficult to troubleshoot. If I can be of any help let me know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@kuronosan @chainsol - thanks guys.
The thread for the new smartwatch is here, we have 5 people so far: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3115221 - including an electronic engineering. [emoji818]

firmware files of z01
abuduri said:
I want to source an Android smart watch from China for a project am working on. I want to change the menu interface it comes with and replace with a custom interface specific for my purpose (means no custom control to intended audience).
Thoughts Needed
Does anyone here have a similar experience?
Are they good at customizing ROMs and interfaces according to requirements?
If not, how easy is it to hire somebody to build a custom ROM with custom interface (for say MTK6572)?
Any recommended suppliers you know?
Phase 1 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements - 100 Units Order
Android OS
GSM/GPS
Touch screen
Mic/Speaker
Charging points on the back side (no micro-usb slot on the side)
Shortlisted AK-S5 or AK-S7
Phase 2 MUST HAVE Minimum Requirements
All from Phase 1
IP67 or IP68
Magnetic based charger point on the backside
Heart rate sensor at the backside
Shortlisted - None available yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
need firmware files for z01 (android 5.1)

My attempt at solving all the "Got my Pi. Now what?" post.

The most common question asked here is "what should I do with my pi?"
This is a solution to that question. You can now get everything you need to complete the projects we all bought our pi's for.
What I have done is started a subscription box business, with the intention of providing a monthly project for your raspberry pi's. I have tried to pick projects that offer the best combination of improving your tech skills and being something you will use more than once.
I would like to think I have an above average grasp of all aspects of technology and I was worried that I would pick projects that would not be able to be completed by someone with a novice skill level or even someone who has never seen a raspberry pi before.
To make sure that was not the issue. I asked my 11-year-old daughter to help me. This is an average 11-year-old, she does have her own phone, tablet, and laptop. But let's be honest here she spends all her time talking to friends or watching kids open toys on youtube. She is a good student at a small public school. She knows dad makes money working with computers and that’s about it.
I told her I had a headache and asked her to help me. We sat down at the kitchen table with her laptop and the parts I have picked out for the first subscription box. I had her navigate to "https://github.com/alexa/alexa-avs-sample-app/wiki/Raspberry-Pi" and we just walked through each step. I don’t think she noticed that it took almost 2 hours to complete it. When we were done she wanted to keep it in her room. That was about a week ago and every once in a while I can hear her asking Alexa a math problem or something similar.
Sure I was right there beside her to answer any questions or nudge her in the right direction. I think it is worth noting that she had an excellent guide to follow, but we all know that every project most of us want to do at this point is well documented. The issue we have is either lacking the parts to do a project or we have trouble deciding which one we want to do.
A few of the projects I want to add to the coming month's boxes would be things like retropie, a mini magic mirror for the desk, a weather station, some kind of home automation, a time-lapse camera. Functional things like that. Things all ages groups would enjoy.
I don’t want you all to think that I am just getting cheap parts from china and sending them out with a high price tag. What I have done is searched amazon for the parts needed for each project, the first months is the Alexa pi so we needed an SD card. I found some Sandisk 16gb class 10's. we needed a USB microphone. I wouldn’t want the one that is advertised on the GitHub link above due to it not having a cable, so I found a flexible one that would stay where I pointed it at. The last thing we needed was a speaker with a headphone cable, so I got an external speaker designed for a ham radio that had noise canceling built in because why not?
I made sure all of these were 4-star reviews or higher and I also went through all of the comments till I seen that each product I picked was going to work with raspberry pi without issue. Then once I received them I plugged them into all of my pi's to make sure they worked across the raspberry pi family.
While I am positive that most any person out there could come up with some fancy marketing and pretty boxes. I am not that creative. I am offering my passion as a raspberry pi enthusiast. I would not put anything in the boxes that I wouldn’t use myself. I don’t like buying cheap things I am more of a buy it for life type of guy. I stay current on the new uses for raspberry pi and I will always make sure that whatever the project is that month that the instructions are clear enough for anyone capable of reading English to follow.
The price of the box itself is $50.00 per month.
This is the only thing that I am not 100% sure of but I wanted to be prepared for those of us from the UK and other countries. I couldn't figure out a good way of doing the shipping for just you on crate joy's website. I decided a flat rate of $50.00 would guarantee regardless of total weight that I could ship oversea's. I am not happy about this and it will change as soon as I can find a way to handle it properly with cratejoy.
cratejoy.com/subscription-box/fortified-it-solutions/
That’s the link to get your subscriptions started. I don’t have any discount codes or anything at this time. Cratejoy has a refer a friend link where both parties receive $5.00 after they spend $30.00 and I am sure someone here can figure out how the community can take advantage of that. What I would like to do however is anyone that reads this and subscribe's can PM me and I will do overnight shipping or two-day shipping whatever works out best for you. And then hopefully you will leave an honest review of my boxes either here or on cratejoy preferably both.
Thoughts and suggestions welcome below.
*UPDATED EDIT - its pretty much being demanded by the community at this point that I ship raspberry pi's with each box. I will update the listing on cratejoy to include a raspberry pi zero w with each project. if you would like to receive a different model just request it and I will swap models out for you.

Really unprofessional support and a dodgy vibe

I was pretty hyped every since this device got announced. Saving up my money and arranging for shipping beforehand so I could snatch it ASAP but actually no, I won't be getting this device at all.
I'll tell you the experience I went through when I tried asking their support if they'll release 16gb version of the device so I don't end up regretting jumping the gun on the 12gb one.
Whole experience was dodgy af from support not being able to speaking proper English at all to constantly being asked for personal data that I'd later realise wasn't being user to better answer my questions at all.
For example I asked if there's a trade in program and they reply asking what device I'm using. I take that as OK there is but maybe not every device is elegible so I reply with my current device only to be then told that there's no program at all??? ( Why did they ask what device I'm using then idk and they haven't bothered answering when I questioned them... )
I was also asked where I currently live when I asked if there's a 16gb version on the way and what it would cost. That was before I asked for trade in program, so I thought they might be asking in order to tell me the price for my region but no. Once again, they have no idea if 16gb version is in production and they just inquired for my info again for no reason.
Mind you, the English is completely broken and the reply turnaround is few days to a week per response at best, so I really didn't feel like dragging the conversation around asking why they want to know all of that beforehand.
After all of that I don't feel like I can trust a company like this not to be looking into my personal data during my use of the device. Paying 700$ or maybe upwards of 800$ if 16gb version ever gets released is way too much for not having an ease of mind of what might be going on in the background.
I understand that their reasoning for where I live might be justified but never in the conversation did they inform me ahead of time on what the purpose is for all the data collection is. They haven't answered why they want to know what device I'm using if there's no program in the first place so I'll assume that previous reasoning was also an excuse thought up to justify their inquiry.
I'm pretty bummed to see that as a company they haven't changed much from their early days. They might have improved the OS, introduced better hardware and all but the core of the company is still both shady af and completely non organised.
This all plays a major factor in why I won't be getting this device, just thought I'd let others know too if they are thinking of going for it.
Picture is below, you will have to read from the bottom to the top to follow the conversation.

I don't want to nit pick. you are right in some points. but I'd like to point out a few things.
you're giving them questions in English, which they need to translate then organize into a response then re translate it back for you to understand.
They are based in Hong Kong, So I would assume the number of local English speaking people a small sub section of an already crippled tech giant (due to US sanctions of ZTE) have the space to employ customer service agents in English. when their main market is China.
They tell you to look at the site for information on the sale of the devices in question.
After your question of If a device with 16gb of ram would be available. if the site says no, there is no plan.
so you had your answer to your original Question. they asked what region so they could confirm what devices where available to you. because some parts of the world cannot receive their devices.
your question on the 12gb to 16gb upgrade must have been a mis-understanding.
you can read that in their response. they said there would be no way to upgrade a 12gb to 16gb. to them thats a technical impossibility.
they didn't understand that you meant trade back your 12gb RM5S for a 16GB version.
they though that you were asking if you could upgrade the hardware of your 12gb model.
at least thats how I understood their answer of your question.
they may have asked you what device you where using because they honestly though you were contacting support for a Nubia device. when you said you had a different phone altogether, they were trying to tell you that they did not support your device. as in Nubia don't do customer support for Huawei.
after that you blew up at them for general question to find out what market you were in to see if you would be able to even buy any model.
you took that way out of bounds dude. they are still trying to do their best. with awful translation programs.
your questions were understandable to an English person but you got to understand WHO you're chatting with. and how they will see and understand your messages.
even putting some some of your messages into google translate. going to Chinese simplified then translating it back to English what do you get? because that's only half of about what they will understand from your questions.
I think they did a professional job of explaining to you that you needed to look at the information on the market site of your location. and that they couldn't give you support with your Huawei because its not a supported model of their Nubia support team.
Also you should Hide your personal Email address when posting things online.

Patrick Morgan said:
I don't want to nit pick. you are right in some points. but I'd like to point out a few things.
you're giving them questions in English, which they need to translate then organize into a response then re translate it back for you to understand.
They are based in Hong Kong, So I would assume the number of local English speaking people a small sub section of an already crippled tech giant (due to US sanctions of ZTE) have the space to employ customer service agents in English. when their main market is China.
They tell you to look at the site for information on the sale of the devices in question.
After your question of If a device with 16gb of ram would be available. if the site says no, there is no plan.
so you had your answer to your original Question. they asked what region so they could confirm what devices where available to you. because some parts of the world cannot receive their devices.
your question on the 12gb to 16gb upgrade must have been a mis-understanding.
you can read that in their response. they said there would be no way to upgrade a 12gb to 16gb. to them thats a technical impossibility.
they didn't understand that you meant trade back your 12gb RM5S for a 16GB version.
they though that you were asking if you could upgrade the hardware of your 12gb model.
at least thats how I understood their answer of your question.
they may have asked you what device you where using because they honestly though you were contacting support for a Nubia device. when you said you had a different phone altogether, they were trying to tell you that they did not support your device. as in Nubia don't do customer support for Huawei.
after that you blew up at them for general question to find out what market you were in to see if you would be able to even buy any model.
you took that way out of bounds dude. they are still trying to do their best. with awful translation programs.
your questions were understandable to an English person but you got to understand WHO you're chatting with. and how they will see and understand your messages.
even putting some some of your messages into google translate. going to Chinese simplified then translating it back to English what do you get? because that's only half of about what they will understand from your questions.
I think they did a professional job of explaining to you that you needed to look at the information on the market site of your location. and that they couldn't give you support with your Huawei because its not a supported model of their Nubia support team.
Also you should Hide your personal Email address when posting things online.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could give you a hundred likes for this.
As a matter of fact, I was equally thinking along the same lines as your response when I was reading his post.

To OP: I think it's time for you to do a little research on your own first rather than immediately looking for ways to point a finger.
Just my 2 cents

I gotta agree with Patrick, but at the same time I got hosed by Nubia with my RM5G and had a completely different yet still terrible experience. My phone arrived uncalibrated, I talked with Nubia Admin's and they agreed my phone was not calibrated correctly because the camera will switch from 16mp to 64mp, but the image quality is exactly the same, so the camera app is showing it's 64mp, but it can't produce it because it was never calibrated before it left the factory. Which means there's a whole batch of RM5G's out there that don't actually take 64mp photo's. I contacted Nubia countless times, they only actually responded twice, the first time they were really nice, apologized for the phone not working and gladly offered to take it back for an exchange. and after giving them all of my info, just like stated above where they're data hungry. They ghosted me. I tried again about a month later because the finger print sensor also stopped working and again, same process, ,they were nice, offered to take it back and exchange for a new unit, gave them all of my info again for the return label, and just like clock work, ghosted me.. fast forward 8 MONTHS LATER, I got an email (this was only a few weeks ago now) where they actually followed up asking if I still needed a return request for my phone. I said yes, they then asked for all of my info.. again.. even though it was literally in the previous email they responded to.. but sure, play by their game, gave it all again.. and ghosted.. it's been a few weeks now, probably going on about a month actually and I still haven't heard back from them lol.
To put it simply, they do not care about customers, Nubia is about making money, they just want their product in your hand, once it is, peace, later, seeya, goodbye.
So I gave up on them. I have all of it documented, made a few youtube videos, people hated me for bad mouthing Nubia but in all reality they're a terrible company. The RM5G is actually a deadly phone now that everything is fixed, but you gotta remember this is a phone that on launch showed up to my door unable to make a phone call because the software was so broken the microphone would turn off if you made a call, it only worked on speaker phone lol. It couldn't send MMS messages, and mine specifically doesn't even have a calibrated 64mp camera. It's complete junk. It looks cool, ,the idea is there, the platform is there, the software is trash, and the company should probably be stripped of rights to sell uncompleted products.
It was as later confirmed that the launch software was Beta because they didn't have it done for their launch day, so like I said earlier, clearly shows that rather than delaying launch to fix bugs, they cared more about getting their phones in our hands rather than actually having a good product.
I mean, it's great now, basically everything is fixed but the soiled taste in my mouth from this company makes this phone look good on my desk, I don't daily it, and if anyone asks about it I tell them it was almost cool but the company ruined it and I don't recommend people buy them because of Nubia's practices.
Kinda like what they did here with the 5S lol, lets just change the logo on the glass.. add a little piece of metal to the centre.. .boom, new phone, new software that actually works.. no we won't fix the 5G yet.. we'll make a new phone for $10 more instead of fixing the actually identical phone already in the wild that's riddled with issues.
Nubia cares more about making money, than they do making a good product. It's been working for them this long, why would they change? Sure it's shady but it's business, it sucks but that's the world we live in, if we don't like it, then we just won't buy their products again. I'm one of those. I still play with the 5G from time to time but I wouldn't daily this thing if my life depended on it.. Which not as life threatening as suggested, but I soft bricked my S20 ultra while playing around with One UI 3.0 flashes, and instead of putting my SIM into the RM5G, I just decided it was better to go without a phone for 3 days until I fixed my S20 Ultra than it was to deal with the bugs and headaches that follow with the RM5G.
Which is why I'm back, 8.11 came out and it's suppose to be good so I'm giving it another shot, maybe I could use it as an Android game console to toss in my bag or something if it's stable enough.
Anyway, kind of went off on a rant there. Nubia is trash, the phones are cool, but if you buy one, just pretend you're buying something without warranty, no customer support, and you're entirely on your own once you get it. You buy these phones AS-IS because Nubia doesn't give an F about you after the sale is completed lol

bencozzy said:
This is the redmagic 5s forum I think you posted on the wrong place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still the same phone, they both even officially use the same firmware now. 5G and 5S are the same phone, they just have a different piece of glass on the back.
However, I was just responding in coordinate to the OP having a bad experience with the company Nubia, as I also had a bad experience with the company, it's still relevant as the device doesn't matter when we're addressing the customer support we received.

Guys I need some help. If I am posting in the wrong place I apologize and please redirect me. My less than a month old 5S pulse (Christmas present we got both his and hers) literally just died while I was scrolling through my WeChat! I really loved the phone though up to that point. No the phone was not abused....I baby it! It had more than 90% charge at the time, was not running any apps so no stress, laying on the table beside me so not in my pocket or being charged. Literally just watching a photo on the screen and it suddenly dimmed black and died. No sign, no drama. Power button and volume buttons dont do anything....any ideas as to what to do are welcome :-(

I don't see a support thread for 5S here ...only 5G hence my above post

Phew thank God I saw this thread. Was really interested in the redmagic 6 pro, at £600 but stories like these freak me right out, I guess I'll be staying away.

Patrick Morgan said:
I don't want to nit pick. you are right in some points. but I'd like to point out a few things.
you're giving them questions in English, which they need to translate then organize into a response then re translate it back for you to understand.
They are based in Hong Kong, So I would assume the number of local English speaking people a small sub section of an already crippled tech giant (due to US sanctions of ZTE) have the space to employ customer service agents in English. when their main market is China.
you took that way out of bounds dude. they are still trying to do their best. with awful translation programs.
your questions were understandable to an English person but you got to understand WHO you're chatting with. and how they will see and understand your messages.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, I'll jump into the conversation as it's similarly relevant to my case.
I agree with the rest of your arguments, but including the part where you, yourself mentioned possible nitpicking & in a limited context, will side with the OP.
I have a feeling you try to see the best in people & also in this case, focus on the "human being".
That's noble of you, but let's keep in mind that at the end of a day, we're (as client) making a financial transaction & expecting/owed reliable support. It's not the client's worry how the supplier (in this case, Nubia) sorts out his support structures, but the supplier, needs to manage client expectations & deliver a service of relevant quality.
1: I'd agree with the OP, that Nubia has terrible support.
- being fully aware that they are providing a global service (assuming OP reached out via the global or EU portal), should provide adequate support - meaning service desk agents or support staff with adequate command of the English language.
- responsiveness - my particular case has echoed OP's experience - terrible response times. To the extent of "some benefit", they did follow up on some questions with a week's/week & a half, delay.
- knowledge & eagerness to provide client satisfaction - they will never tell you that they don't know something but will consult internally & come back to the client with a satisfactory response (I was asking about the reason behind the differences in power adapters in the different regions - global/china).
- misc - not following their legal obligations & releasing adequate GPL code within required timelines (example: kernel).
- the device is crippled on unlocking the bootloader (fingerprint scanner stops working). Understandably, any activity AFTER unlocking a bootloader (example: messing with system files) is not RedMagic's worry, but the sole fact of just unlocking the bootloader should not cripple functionality. Relevant behaviour in other OEMs (Sony Xperia - the camera stopped working after unlocking the BL, but they fixed their approach in time).
2: they will not take ownership for blunders & do their best endeavours to make it up to the client.
Case: I ordered my phone on the 10th of April, it was stuck in processing for 2 weeks (their shipment policy mentions a maximum of 4 days for processing). It's still not here (major city in the EU). Even in the most pessimistic variant, the device should have been at my doorstep, yesterday at the latest & I'm looking at a delivery near the end of the week.
They cancelled the first FedEx shipment, were not forthcoming/(fully) transparent regarding the cause.
Mistakes happen, but if I were a supplier who's keen on building brand loyalty & focused on the quality of my service, I'd go miles to try to make it up to the client - in this case, I would have at least expected the fastest shipping & maybe a gesture of reparation (some accessories, or at the very least discounts for purchases in the future).
The only thing which kept me from going for the Black Shark 4 Pro was the absence of an under-display fingerprint scanner. I admit that RedMagic seems to be the current leader of the gaming phone niche, but other OEMs have caught onto this segment & in a year or two, should RM keep their current approach/practices, will start losing relevancy, as at the end of the day, client satisfaction is all that matters & this should be the foremost priority of any business owner.

adwinp said:
Hi, I'll jump into the conversation as it's similarly relevant to my case.
I agree with the rest of your arguments, but including the part where you, yourself mentioned possible nitpicking & in a limited context, will side with the OP.
I have a feeling you try to see the best in people & also in this case, focus on the "human being".
That's noble of you, but let's keep in mind that at the end of a day, we're (as client) making a financial transaction & expecting/owed reliable support. It's not the client's worry how the supplier (in this case, Nubia) sorts out his support structures, but the supplier, needs to manage client expectations & deliver a service of relevant quality.
1: I'd agree with the OP, that Nubia has terrible support.
- being fully aware that they are providing a global service (assuming OP reached out via the global or EU portal), should provide adequate support - meaning service desk agents or support staff with adequate command of the English language.
- responsiveness - my particular case has echoed OP's experience - terrible response times. To the extent of "some benefit", they did follow up on some questions with a week's/week & a half, delay.
- knowledge & eagerness to provide client satisfaction - they will never tell you that they don't know something but will consult internally & come back to the client with a satisfactory response (I was asking about the reason behind the differences in power adapters in the different regions - global/china).
- misc - not following their legal obligations & releasing adequate GPL code within required timelines (example: kernel).
- the device is crippled on unlocking the bootloader (fingerprint scanner stops working). Understandably, any activity AFTER unlocking a bootloader (example: messing with system files) is not RedMagic's worry, but the sole fact of just unlocking the bootloader should not cripple functionality. Relevant behaviour in other OEMs (Sony Xperia - the camera stopped working after unlocking the BL, but they fixed their approach in time).
2: they will not take ownership for blunders & do their best endeavours to make it up to the client.
Case: I ordered my phone on the 10th of April, it was stuck in processing for 2 weeks (their shipment policy mentions a maximum of 4 days for processing). It's still not here (major city in the EU). Even in the most pessimistic variant, the device should have been at my doorstep, yesterday at the latest & I'm looking at a delivery near the end of the week.
They cancelled the first FedEx shipment, were not forthcoming/(fully) transparent regarding the cause.
Mistakes happen, but if I were a supplier who's keen on building brand loyalty & focused on the quality of my service, I'd go miles to try to make it up to the client - in this case, I would have at least expected the fastest shipping & maybe a gesture of reparation (some accessories, or at the very least discounts for purchases in the future).
The only thing which kept me from going for the Black Shark 4 Pro was the absence of an under-display fingerprint scanner. I admit that RedMagic seems to be the current leader of the gaming phone niche, but other OEMs have caught onto this segment & in a year or two, should RM keep their current approach/practices, will start losing relevancy, as at the end of the day, client satisfaction is all that matters & this should be the foremost priority of any business owner.
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- Nit picking, in terms of what device to buy, its a personal call. if you prefer to side with another that is totally OK and is not my problem.
- For seeing the best in people, you've not read my posts on Nubia support and their lack of actual support I've written a few times here on XDA.
in a basic manner, if the phone turns on, and the basic features advertised and (mentioned in the small print) is working as described, all other features and options are of a personal preference.
Features like - what do you mean I can't enable and disable the fan from the dropdown notification menu? or why is NFC not a togglable tile in the drop down menu either? ( both options have been added by custom app developer on our Telegram group) but Nubia have stated it was not intended and wont be added. (but they added those options in the 6 series devices {oh did they now?}) - strange how those that have already paid them money have been left behind on features that would be very easy to add) ( the code is freely available on github)
- Global service to sell devices. support its a toss up based on warranty ownership. (its why they only support devices that are bought directly from them) all stock is shipped from Hong Kong. its a Chinese business selling stuff from china. they use a translation app / program to communicate with most customers. there is a few people like Jerry here, that have decent enough command of the english language, but still fails to understand some things. their staff are all ... ALL Chinese. English is not the only Language in the world so they have to adapt to all other languages too. (redmagic Phones are actually sold more in the Indian / Arab regions of the world outside of the Asian / Chinese markets. so English customer services is actually a few steps below any kind of priority before their other more paying customer regions. which covers their response time. I usually get a 3-5 day time line. (maybe I'm more polite about my messages to redmagic.gg ?? ) maybeI dont know.
- My last message to them was about the current bug-list for the 8.59/7.60 roms all I got was. thanks we will forward to the department responsible. .. some 5 or so weeks ago. Go team red for that awesomely fast R&D department - Not.
- GPL source codes. ? what GPL source? were does it say they need to provide adequate sources? does this mean Nubia as well as almost every other OEM have broken the law?? OMgosh we need to bring all the peoples to court.
almost all OEM release old broken non up to date sources. even Nubia, Sony, Samsung, Xiaomi, IQOO, POCO phone, Mediatek, Qualcomm, Etc you will always find a few devcies that quite literally have no source at all published anywhere, and then you'll find sources that are so broken, with base drivers and other stuff that even making hardly boots on the required hardware. needin additional work to get booting, then bug fixed to get stable. nothing like the stock kernels that the oems release with up to date roms. for Nubia for example - the current A11 kernel they released is a almost direct copy of the base Android 11 kernel. just without some needed things to actually compile and boot. (even the triggers) you gotta make those yourself. - kernel source is provided as required by law. take Nubia to court if you need any more sources I'm sure google will help with that eventually in about 40 years.
fingerprint sensor being corrupted when unlocking bootloader is not a bug. Its actually a feature added to the device by Qualcomm. According to Jerry it was done on purpose and is not a bug.
Shipping and processing, sometimes can literally be out of their hands. with covid now some companies are required by law to close for 2 weeks. at their own loss, instead of advertising that their shipping processing center was closed or limited, its possible it was on hold for 2 weeks due to something they couldn't deal with.
but as customer processes like these are common, writing to them to find out what's going on with a 3 days delay before writing once again with the order number and a request for a refund usually gets them to contact you pretty fast.
client satisfaction at point of sale is all that matters. once they have your money, you don't get it back.
to be honest though. Jerry has, every time I've put someone in his direction for a genuine warranty service he has been on point and helped everyone he could. his estimates are rubbish though and he should stop telling people update will be out on X day because it nearly never true and never his fault (his fault he got the date wrong, but not his fault its delayed)
he's not in charge of software development but he can give suggestions and push requests that are demanded ALOT.
So if 3 people (in my current experience here on XDA and the some 700+ people on the telegram group) there is 3 people I have personally seen report the hz refresh rate issue on youtube and instagram and other common apps like this on the new Android 11. so unless there is a big. like a few thousand people getting in Nubia's faces about this on their twitter, facebook, and other social media sites and talking about the lack of support for updates etc like myself and few other members did back in January this year to get Android 11 for the global customers Nubia will sweep most of these things under the rug until its a big pile of crap they need to clean by dealing with it.
thats the only option for companies that don't respond or help. hurt their marketing image and they'll jump to help you.
privately request, or even publicly post here on XDA where most Chinese people wouldn't even know what this site is at a first glance and you're not getting the message to the right people.
contact support. when that does not work, go social and go big. its the only way to get the message through.