Related
Anyone know what this about?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/...-angry-mobile-owners-rush-castle-htc-with-bu/
link to the xda thread about it?
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
yakky said:
Yeah, I don't know where that is coming from... of all the issues with the phone.. video is the least. BT still sucks as well as the phone turning on and off at will. Not checking email when it is supposed to... etc etc.
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Maybe you should file a class-action suit against the video driver class-action people for taking HTC's time and attention away from fixing real problems...
Actually the mogul does have video playback issues with constant stutering and pausing. From what I've heard from 6700 users video playback is much much smoother (the way it should be). I don't know if it calls for a law suit but hey at least they got htc's attention and now their releasing new drivers that will supposedly fix the video playback issues.
bakntyme said:
This is about a group of litigation-crazed people who want to file a class-action suit against a device manufacturer (HTC) because the manufacturer did not include a functionality that would be technologically possible to include in a device. Since class-action suits are overwhelmingly just scams where the lawyers literally make millions for a few hours work, and the companies sued get to give you a coupon for a future purchase thereby increasing the chance you will, in fact, make a future purchase from them, I make no prediction as to whether a suit will be filed or settled in the customary way. However, in a "real" law suit, there is no way the courts would require a company to include all technologically possible features in a product, regardless of how "easy" it might allegedly be to include them. Note that in this case, neither HTC nor the carriers (as far as I have heard) ever stated that this functionality was included in the device.
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Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
SINNN said:
Keep your feces to yourself. if you have nothing better to do but flame a valid issue on HTC phones then i suggest to go jump off a hill.
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Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
bakntyme said:
Why are you afraid for someone to post a valid, opposing viewpoint to yours? Can you not accept that someone who disagrees with you may still have a valid point? My post was not flaming at all, your post however seems to utilize nothing but flame to express your thoughts. Now, please post again with a well-thought-out response to my points as opposed to a simple flame, as I am interested in an intelligent response and will read it with an open mind.
While you are at it, maybe you can explain why, if all that is needed is a simple driver and all graphics problems will be solved with no detrimental side-effects, no one here on xda-developers, where I truly believe there is at least as much talent as at HTC, has done the allegedly simple task of writing or finding that driver and distributing it.
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I feel the need to address this... despite not having been in the original exchange. I can accept that you have a differing viewpoint from us. I refuse to be called a "litigation-crazed" person. I also think you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgment.
The simple fact is - we want the functionality that our devices were advertised with. Many of us did our research and realized that the MSM7500 is a POWERFUL chip. The video acceleration is top-tier, and everything else seemed good too. Then HTC decided to not include a driver for video acceleration. Also, before someone mentions that HTC has claimed(but never in an official press release) that the MSM7500 might NOT include the video acceleration... When have you known a huge manufacturer(nVidia, AMD, Intel, ATi, Qualcomm, etc) to name two differing devices the same name? They don't. they generally qualify them(e.g. 8800 series nVidia cards can be 8800 GT, GTX, GTS, etc.) What HTC did is akin to Dell selling you an Inspiron notebook with an nVidia 8800GTS card inside, then telling you that they didn't include drivers. Oh, and don't forget that nVidia won't support the card, since it's up to the manufacturer(Dell) to supply the drivers. Microsoft won't do it since it's Dell's problem. Dell won't do it because it isn't cost effective. (Suspend the reality of the situation for the analogy, though, please) Now you're left with a $300 piece of video hardware that can't be used because nobody wanted to provide a driver. Go software acceleration! That's the issue we're having. The phones WERE advertised as having the MSM7500(or 7200) which according to everything I've seen both have video acceleration. HTC just dropped the ball.
Now, about us writing our own drivers... That would be difficult without getting a bunch of information from Microsoft, HTC and Qualcomm, which they won't release. If you don't know why, look up open source video drivers for Linux, and you'll understand the pain. It's not a baseless suit - however I don't think that class action is the way to go. I think we need to work WITH MS, HTC, and Qualcomm to come up with a driver. Period. Don't let up the pressure until we have that.
I am sorry, but when your advocacy group starts out with a name like "HTCClassAction", and names its website "htcclassaction.org", it shows itself as not interested in getting the claimed result, but instead, despite any protestations from the group, interested in filing a class-action lawsuit from the beginning. That is "litigation-crazed". Was "htcvideodrivers.org" not available? I am sure that, if you wanted to, given a few minutes you could come up with several non-litigation-oriented group and website names. If you were the product manager for the 6800 at HTC, and you heard of the issues raised by the group HTCClassAction, would you think, "Here is a group of users that wants to work with us to resolve what they see as a legitimate issue?"
Speaking of facts...have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included? I would bet that HTC never stated that the 6800 would include every feature technologically possible with the chipset. It has the capability of supporting an 8MP camera, but they didn't include that either. Another lawsuit? I am sure there are other things the chipset would be CAPABLE of that were not included. If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?
Realize that modern class-action lawsuits are almost always settled for lots of money to the attorneys and a pittance to the class. Remember the Verizon Moto 710 Bluetooth class action? It was settled as usual...the attorneys got somewhere around $6 million; users got $25 if they wanted to keep the 710 and stay with Verizon, a waived ETF and a refund if they wanted to leave Verizon, and a credit toward another device if they wanted to stay with Verizon but not keep the 710. They did not get additional Bluetooth profiles. And if this goes to trial, the courts will never order a manufacturer to provide technology, and support for it, that the manufacturer does not want to provide. IF you could prove false advertising, and I do not think that you could, you might get a small refund or credit toward another phone. If that is what you want, just sell the device on an internet auction site and buy something else...you will probably get more that way.
sucks too that our phones dont even have the ati chip in them. my htc wizard (old school) had better video and gameplay
I don't play games much on my ppc so this problem hasn't affected me as much. However I did notice that PIE was sluggish and freaked when video playback sucked on WM and TCPMP. Most of that was avoided by using GDI on TCPMP.
The real issue here is why can't they add the driver? If it was a simple fix it probably wouldn't have been left out in the first place. Sounds to me like they ran into technical issues trying to make it work.
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
johnannie said:
I just got the mogul last week. I have 30 days to evaluate it. Do you think that I should have gotten something else? I think that I've had at least 10 different Smartphones & PPC's in the past 5 or 6 years. They all have something I dislike about them. This one is the best one I've had yet, but would you recommend something else? THANKS
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you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
watson540 said:
you hit the nail on the head. EVERY PPC is going to have SOMETHING you dont like about it.
with that said. it only matters what you think. dont go taking advice from a forum where 50 percent of its members cant even tie their shoes.
For the record, i agree with what the person said way up at the beginnning of the thread. "Why are you *****ing now when you had 30 days in which to evaluate and return it if you felt the need?!""
I would imagine the courts will say the same. everyone who thinks this is a legit complaint needs to get a hobby. you all had 30 days in which to make your decision, so DEAL with it.
sound like a buncha kids to me
I guess we should sue them for not having a 'tv out' jack on the mogul too, since thats also possible. and oh yeah, where's my 8 megapixel camera on the mogul?? it supports that as well.
ah screw it, im going to cry to mommy
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Hahahahaha. Yes, we're children. Little babies, the lot of us. Anyway......
No, we shouldn't sue them for not including a tv-out jack or an 8 megapixel camera. What we are trying to achieve is driver support FOR THE INCLUDED HARDWARE. This is what most people who argue against our position fail to realize. We aren't asking them to do something crazy, like give us a better camera or a tv-out jack, or even more memory. We're asking them to SUPPORT THE HARDWARE THEY SOLD US. Gasp.
Now... I'll use an analogy for those among us who are a bit retarded. If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger, the electronic stability control system, up to 6 airbags, and the radio (all of which are included in your car, albeit only 4 airbags) - and it came with a 30-day money-back guarantee... and you drove it for 30 days and thought to yourself, "Wow, this is clearly better than last years' model" - would you return it? Probably not... That's what happened here.
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them. Now, back to our example. Now imagine you go to a car-meet-up with your new fancy car, and everyone there is talking about how <insert another fast car here> is wayyyy faster than their car, in the same conditions. You and the other owners do some research and find out that the car manufacturer didn't include software to make your supercharger work. It's just inert, sitting there looking pretty. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed that the chip in your car wasn't actually using the supercharger? Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
Anyway - that's where I'm coming from at least - I don't presume to speak for anyone else though. I will say this though, watson540, you need to calm down. You're running around these forums beating on people's opinions and posts. Frankly, yours aren't much more productive. At least try to post something relevant or meaningful... or at the very least something other than "you moron, rtft" or "you moron, stop crying".
it's not really a bug its more
like a pc with the generic vga driver installed
even if the pc have a geforce
problems is that one cant get hold of the
spc driver to replace the generic
ponicg said:
We bought our phones, tried them and went, "Wow, they kicked the crap out of the <insert old PDA phone here>" and kept them.
...
Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger, that the supercharger would actually work?
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OK, so you admit that you were very satisfied with the performance until someone said "Hey, I think they OWE US something MORE than what we got, let's SUE THEM for it?" If the device met your needs when you tested it, then you have no complaint. If it did not, you should have returned it in the 30 day return period.
As I asked you way back in this thread, but you have not yet addressed, (nor any of the other points in my previous post), "have you actually seen an advertisement that stated that the devices came with this functionality, or did you just assume that because it was advertised as having this chipset, and the chipset has this capability, that the functionality would be included?...If you actually researched the chipset so thoroughly for this issue prior to purchasing the device, why did you not notice in the first 30 days that it was not included, and return the device?"
None of these analogies is perfect...one big flaw in yours is that you hypothesized "If you were to buy a car that was advertised with a special computer chip in it that can control a supercharger," then switched to the car actually having a supercharger advertised: "Wouldn't you expect that if it was advertised as having this chip and a supercharger". Another is that the supercharger's existence is open and apparent to someone who looks under the hood, without requiring any research or disassembly of the vehicle. Another is that in chip manufacturing, it is usually more efficient to produce a batch of chips with all the capabilities, then use the ones you want in each device, as opposed to redesigning the chip package and retooling the production run for each combination of features desired in each application. No one could reasonably say that it was more efficient to produce a factory run of cars with all possible mechanical features (such as the supercharger in your example) included, and then only connect and use the ones desired for that model. However, auto manufacturers also sometimes utilize parts and sub-assemblies in a particular model without enabling or utilizing all of that component's capabilities, when doing so is more efficient.
Since you like automotive analogies, I will use one without resorting to calling anyone "a bit retarded": suppose that Ford announced that all 2010 Mustangs would use the new computer chip from Super Tuner Corporation, "because of its wonderful and powerful new capabilities," with no details as to what particular features would be made available. Your research into the chip on Super Tuner's website revealed that it supported superchargers, turbochargers, four-wheel drive, four-wheel steering, and nitrous fuel systems. You went in to a Ford dealer and test-drove the top-of-the-line 2010 Mustang, were impressed by its performance, and bought it. Six months later, someone pointed out that you had received none of those performance items listed above. You did not know why, but it was because Ford had internally determined pre-production that the suspension and frame would not be sufficient to provide those performance items in any model Mustang, and they did not want to re-engineer the support structure. They made no announcement about these features not being available, as they had never made any announcement about including those features. Would you join the MustangClassAction.org group? Now suppose that you had done no research prior to the purchase, and six months later discovered the information on Super Tuner's website after someone pointed out the lack to you...even less valid a complaint then, isn't it?
And further suppose that at the same time, someone else says, "I took the interior of my Mustang apart, and it has mounts for 8 speakers, and they only provided it with 4 speakers. Ford has to install 4 more speakers in every Mustang, because it has the capability of holding them!"
And another owner pulls out his factory radio, notices the output jack on the back for a subwoofer..."Where is my subwoofer? It obviously was supposed to come with my car, or they would not have included a radio that could support one and put a jack on the back of the radio to plug one in!!"
Meanwhile, another owner says "I was testing the electronic trip computer included in my Mustang, the same one included in all 2010 Mustangs, and it has the ability to calculate and display up to 55 MPG, but my Mustang only gets 23 MPG. Obviously, Ford was advertising a Mustang that would get 55 MPG and must give us that!"
Enough analogies? Would you get angrier, and call Ford arrogant, when they say, "Thank you for your business, customers, but we never said the Mustang had those capabilities, and we have no intention of retrofitting them, but we will take your opinions into account in designing our next vehicle?"
Analogies by their nature will never replicate the Titan/Mogul/6800 situation. However, we can discuss the 6800 situation itself, and I am waiting for your answer about the HTC advertisement and your not discovering the lack in the first 30 days of your device ownership.
its just bull**** when the the video playback on the 6700 is alot better than the titan. makes no sense at all and yes i feel ripped off.
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
unless you guys can come up with some previous claim by HTC that the mogul was supposed to support this specific capability of the chip, i dont see how you guys can try to force anything out of them. I'm with bakntyme on this one.
Sure its pretty crappy that they put the hardware in there and didnt support it, and im no lawyer, but it doesnt seem like they would be under any legal obligation to support the video drivers.
watson540 said:
im no expert..but from over here it looks like bakntyme just put all of you crybabies in your place
very well said bakntyme. perfect.
p.s. yeah im an asshole. but this asshole can read and troubleshoot and operate electronics all by my big self.
read these forums enough and you will start to think everyone in the world collectively never got out of elementary school
apologies where they are due. but some people are incredible helpless (this last comment has nothing to do with this thread im responding to the guy above who "called me out" for being an (admitted) asshole)
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Although I appreciate the support, a more professional wording of it might help to keep from increasing the level of emotions and inflammation on this issue.
I was in a hurry to make a connection and left it in the seat pocket on the plane. Someone in Chicago or another connection has a great device. I bought the redfly to go with my ATT Titan II and just connected it this morning. The big disappointment is that video is terrible. Other than that most apps work great. Let me know if you want me to test something.
It is unlikely that the airline will find it, so I'll have a battery and original box for sale in about 10 days.
thats really sad
Re Redfly, how is the performance in mobile office? Read some reviews mentioning about pdf files opening extremely slow... your experience so far?
Using BT, how is battery life? Just curious to know the real user experience.
Thanks.
Redfly
All of the mobile office apps work great, it is not hard to see why they are targeting the business market. The only thing that I'd love to see would be better video play, but I did not expect that. The keyboard is fine for touch typing and I've had no trouble getting used to it. The screen is really good in the truck and I'm enjoying it for gps, google maps, and expensable. The view of contacts and calendar when in the truck is so much better than the phone itself. It is priced ok and worth it at $199 but that is still a stretch since it cannot replace my phone screen or media player for video on flights. So my dilemma is still multiple devices if I want a larger screen. The screen for Mobile Office is better than the Advantage, but for a do it all device I'd like to have it back.
I just received my scratch and dent x7501 from an ebay transaction, and it only came with the charger, so I might be interested in whatever you have, especially proprietary cables. I can't say I necessarily have to have them, but it might be helpful in case i decide to sell.
I didn't think I'd miss it like I do. So I'm going to watch the "for sales" and ebay for a couple of weeks to see if I can find a replacement. If not, I'll contact you 1st.
hitch said:
I didn't think I'd miss it like I do. So I'm going to watch the "for sales" and ebay for a couple of weeks to see if I can find a replacement. If not, I'll contact you 1st.
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u can always get my athena if ur interested.
RE Comments and a Question About Redfly As Well
First off, very sorry to hear that story. Thats a fine piece of equipment to have to get over from the loss. I know how I am, I'd be walking around kicking the ground with my head down for weeks. Just remember, you never know, that airline could call tomorrow and surprise you. I would also make sure you contact them again. You never know. Perserverance in a case like this can be invaluable.
Let me also take a second to say to the masses, if you do not have your devices clearly marked with Contact Info, your making a mistake. I simply go into Word or Notepad or whatever and make some simple pieces of paper with my name , number. the words CALL IF FOUND, use a Size of 7 or or 9 FONT depending on how big device is and use BOLD. Cut them out, apply to back of battery is best, but at the least under the battery, people find a device I guarantee the battery comes off sooner or later, and then just use a piece of clear scotch tape (or two). This got my $1400 Black MicroTAC back in 1984 or 85. (something like that) When the Car Kit was $2700. One other thing. Sure Auto Locking on a device gets old. But there is nothing better then to know after a loss or theft that at the best he has a worthless piece of equipment and the least he will have to maybe spend some money and time to get it unlocked. It will help take the sting out of it mentally.
REDFLY:
As to Redfly I also said what the heck for $199 I will jump. With a coupon from MODACO I got another $18.00 off so I am priced right. I am a sceptic about this "seeding"program. I think it was not selling and it was time to get cost out of these units back before it is too late. When they are gone they may be gone and then used and marked up Ebays will be what is available. They may even hold value awhile as they do work as stated.
The OPS statement that the RedFly is for the Business user ( I will also say Student, perfect for Student for taking notes etc) is correct. If you want to watch Videos, forget it. But if you want to type documents, get on the Internet, web browse and check emails and know your phone is staying charged all the while and get good battery life with the whole combo, the Redfly works. It does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do well, and NOTHING else really. Your getting a nice big screen for your phone, keyboard and touchpad, abilty to charge / maintain battery level on phone while using (give or take a bit) for hours. It is small and you will see about 8 hours of battery life. If you need to use a projector it has a regular VIDEO port for say classroom or Power point meeting presentations
RedFly Question / Issue:
Im curious if the OP has experienced the intermittant connect between the AC cord and the Power IN port on the Redfly. Mine barely makes the connection and will pop out while just sitting there doing nothing or being lightly moved or typed on. It seems to be an R and D issue that got by. I have read others complain about it. Mine is bad enough I am exchanging. BTW, if you are going to get a RedFly allow me to suggest Erik Patterson at Expansys USA. This guy has taken care of me before, during and after the sale on the Redfly. I have been very impressed. On a $199 sale he is making very little (if anything) commission wise, He has treated me like I did just buy an x7501 with every available Accs. LOL. He is a true professional salesperson and I would love to see him get the business (RedFly or anything else for that matter) . He has earned my future business hands down.
OK thats enough for this "cover everything" post.
Here is Eriks Info. Please tell him Ron sent you.
Erik Patterson
EXPANSYS USA Sales
800-675-2638 ext 1344
EMAIL: [email protected]
As for the power plug you might want to see if you are getting it plugged all the way in. Many have noted, as I have with mine, they have a lot of tension on the socket so it doesn't come unplugged and you think you have it plugged in when you don't.
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Hello there folks. Let me begin by introducing myself and my situation. My name is Damian, I am in the twelfth-grade and I am currently enrolled in my high-school's concurrent enrollment program with one of the local universities in which I have to write a paper concerning the field of software engineering.
I started this post with the intention of finding and asking certified software engineers a few questions concerning their professions.
I came to this particular forum because of the many brilliant folk here, and my assumption that certainly a portion of the active members are certified software engineers.
-Many thanks in advanced for your replies and imput,
-Damian
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I can answer questions in this field as I am a Software Engineer. I would be happy to give a young person such as yourself advice.
I actually didn't go into college right after high school, I wish I had but I incountered allot of hardship around your age. When I was 22 I went back to school and payed my own way through college, slept in my car in the college parking lot and lived off of peanut butter and jelly sandwhichs.
Honestly its your first job in software thats the hardest to get, but if your persistent you'll get it after that if your perform its pretty much smooth sailing. A good example is how everybody lately has had a hard time finding jobs (bad economy), and even I was laid off from a job where the company was doing great and then went south and I went on the market looking around and recruiters were calling non-stop and I had 2 jobs (one short term getting paid insane amounts of money for 200 hours of work, and then a long term contract after that), I took a vacation to vegas, paid of credit card debt and then started my long term contract.
So ask away!
Edit:
Oh I currently work for a large telecom company where I work ont here provisioning software. My main expertise is Java (j2se, j2ee blah blah) I also write reports (crystal, jfree and actuate), I also have alot of side skills like jsp, ajax, jquery. I actually have wirtten code professionally in all the major langs like c, c#, j# asp.net. As a software developer you constantly need to evolve and progress. I aslo done graphics professionally and If I had it my way I write videos games if I could but alas the life of a programmer is allot less glamorous than most people no.
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
Damian
damiandarkwater said:
Many thanks, I'm sorry to hear about your tough times, but I'm glad to hear things have settled out.
I want to say its great that your able to help me and thank you for your tux theme and scripts.
I am actually looking into dealing with my computers as a profession after collage.
So I begin (thanks again):
What courses and or certifications do you need.
What is a typical day in your job like?
Do you enjoy your job?
And you can tell me anything else that you believe to be important that I may have missed.
-Thanks again
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My tough times where years ago. I've been in the field for almost 10 years.
The first thing you want todo is get a bachelors degree in computer science. Take as many courses as you can in which you will get exposed to writing software, understanding logic and being able to solve problems using logic. But the most important thing is have a specailty something that you know above all other things, be it a certain language or software... good expample is SAP, I have a friend who is a project manager for a very very large electronics manufacturer. they are paying a contractor to do SAP programming and they pay him 500$ dollars an hour... yes 500$ and hour now its not a permanent job but he's making more in a month than most people make in a couple of years. Thats his specailty and its a hard one to break into.
So once you get your degree you can concentrate on what your specailty will be this is where certs come in. Certs are great but don't pay for them, get a job in the field and get them to pay, this is because most of them expire and you usually have to renew them every couple of years. But the look good on your resume especailly if a company pays as this gives the impression that you are a go getter and that the company beleives in you. Your specailty might relate to your degree major or it might be what your first major job is, this is just luck of the draw.
So a typicaly day, wow its hard to say. Sometimes its go go go and I'm writing code like crazy. Other days its talk talk talk and meetings. Sometimes I spend days writing tech specs or documents to give overviews and estimations on software that needs to be written. Think office space it really is allot like that. One thing alot of people don't know about being a software developer is that you not only need to understand how to write software (ie solve problems) but you also need to undersand the industry in which you write software for. This means you need to understand the business process. So think if you were writing software for a burger company, you need to understand how orders are processed, how iventory is processed and used blah blah. This is where probably the hardest part it almost a second job.
Do I like my job.... as someone who had mowed lawns and dug ditches for a living making money that wouldnt even feed one person, yes I actually love my job. I worked hard to get where I'm at I make pretty good money, my wife doesn't have to work, My kids have more than I had as a little kid and the work I do is satisfying.
If there one thing I could stress when it comes to this line of work. You have to love software, so much so that you willing to work long hours and then come home and write more software as a hobby (maybe i did atleast). Or when you hit college start a pet project and see it through. These are the things that will set you apart from other developer coming out of college. Especailly when you don't have much on your resume, and honestly these are the question potential employers ask (hobbies, personal projects).
How bout this... I give you an hour by hour blog for the next week on what I'm doing at work.
I'm currently working on a rewrite... code fix for code that the company I work for now decided to outsource. This code ended up being terrible and was somethign I was thrown into when I arrived here about 8 months ago. I just started this project about 3 weeks ago and before that I spent about 4weeks evaluating and writing custom testing suites to produce metrics scores for this software compared to the previous version of this software (ie compare say version 5 to version 6). I was the one who found all the bugs and areas of concern and gave estimates on hours of work to fix these things.
So I might be off tomorrow, if I am I will report so. If not then I will start the hour by hour blog if you like.
Such a blog would be amazing (and id read up hourly for updates trust me, this sounds fascinating!)but I wouldn't want to detract from your life anymore then I already have, you work hard and I imagine that you would want to have time to yourself for your hobbies and your family.
Thank you very much. I could ask a million more questions, but again, I don't want to take away to much time. Thanks a billion
No really i want to answer them I wish I had been in you're shoes when I was your age. I didn't have some one telling that I could do it... computer were different back then hell I didn't own my own computer till I was in my twenties.
Ill do the blog for you... one if the perks of being on a computer. Like I said just at work tho. When I get home I can't promise when I be able to post.
So ask question one at a time since I tend to be long winded... it makers it easier... honestly when I retire I plan on teaching at a tech college... but thats about 20 years away. But I love to answer question about these things.
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Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
Hey Asimmons, thanks for helping damian out. I'm in the same boat he is, and I'm finding this really useful! Thanks a lot!
Glad I can help I was in you guys shoes once. And know that feeling of uncertainty... ill answer more tomorrow for you guys and start the blog.
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I know I've said it tons, but I mean it, thank you ASimmons. And I'm glad this post can help others
damiandarkwater said:
Great
Well what was learning your first programming language like
Do you think knowing a markup language helps or would help in the learning process?
What do you think the software engineering world will be like in a few years?
Is there any particular aspect of the computer world you like most?
Do you still keep in contact with any of your professors or colleges?
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Click to collapse
Mark up languages are very important, but I wouldn't focus a career on them. Languages like html, dhtml or xml are skills you will pickup along the way, understanding how these langs are parsed and used by other languages are very important and is a valuable skill to have. Especially in Java and with the emergence of real time web applications that uses technologies like ajax, jquery and now html5 it is more important to understand the usage and capabilities of these languages rather than focus on just knowing how to write a webpage.
The future of software will be more and more web based and mobile application. as we have seen in the corporate world for the last 5 or so years application that were once only possible on the desktop have moved entirely to web based app. This makes deployments and updates easier to maintain, version control easier, and with technologies like html5, ajax used in conjunctions with SOA and SAAS these apps perform just as well or better than the app you use to see run on your desktop. Take MS Office 365 and their cloud software for this, this is essentially an SAAS (software as a service) you lease the software it doesn't run locally anymore and the software and its worries and maintenance are pushed to the software vendors, we start to see this more and more. Google has been at the for front of this, and expect to see computers in the near future that are just dummy terminals that run only the basics and all your important software is pushed to a corporate cloud. I'm not saying desktop pcs will disappear but downloadable software will begin to especially in the corporate world.
I pretty much like anything that has to do with technology. I love the history of computers since I grew up and pretty much watch the birth of the home pc and remmeber when the 486dx came out and it was considered the best computer you could get. I remember using the trs-80 in typing class and the atari 2600 (still have one) kelico vision and then the nintendo (still have that to).
And yes I do stay in contact with the department head from my old college. I still use her as a reference from time to time since I worked in college for a little as a tutor (best job to get.. I recommend this if you can). College is about learning in large part but secondly its about contacts and networking. Make sure your networking in college, know your peers and previous alumni. Introduce your self and make sure to attend functions, since the will be potential co-workers or bosses.
So its mondays... I going to maybe do every couple of hours every hours might be to much. But I'm about to dive in to a ton of spaghetti code and try and make some since of it. This is especially ORM (look this up) code for an oracle database, and I'm trying to fix what is broken without having to actually rewrite the whole thing (if it was up to me I would). Be back in a couple of hours.
So its just after 2 and I've had to switch task to help another developer. This is pretty common and as a developer you have to be able to multi task.
So I'm working in creating a way for dynamic where clause can be built or just passed to and object DAO class.
The implementation I'm trying to fix is currently building them in a very static and non reusable way. When you design code it has be thought out and designed in such a way so that things like maintenance on said code is taken into account, and that repeatable processes are written in such a way that the can be reusable. This seems to have non of that.
If your looking at a package or program and see common re-occuring methods then this would be considered bad (imo) and should be re-evaluated and or rewritten so that this process can be written in one spot and referenced be other, this way if bugs or changes need to occur in this process you only have to change it there, this is the most common principle in OOP design but you be amazed at how much it is abused.
While you might be saving time up front your creating time on the back end for thing like code maintenance, upgrades or bug fixes.
It's about 5 for me and I just got home from school. I was at a friends house trying to understand a virus her computer contracted. (smart engine, annoying little thing, but its all better now.)
I'm looking into ORM as I type this. Interesting o:
I ask about the markup languages because ill be taking an html5 course next term. Makes sense that id learn about them along the way.
Sounds like you can handle quite a bit all at once, does that develop with time?
Html 5 is not like the previous htmls. So yeah this will be the next big internet language think web apps and pages that are totally dynamic. Good choice.
The multi tasking can be learned... good habits and time management... mostly learning the most basic of issues there's probably 5 or so and how the efficiently solve the problems and with what tools. Tools are very important every thing from ant or scripts to automate task to custom libraries.
Here's one, it's sort of a snarky developer joke.
You can have software.. done fast, done cheap and done right. You can only choose two though.
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Hey Sorry
Sorry I been super busy. There small a small re-org in my department and I changed cubicals (this office space) and now I sit next to the "I've done it all programmer". The I've done it all programming can do everything, and its was always easier.
So hows the paper going?
Done!
It was a pleasure to write after talking with you, thank-you.
I get my grade sometime next week.
Thank you Simmons I am in 9th grade and am in a it trade school and I have thinking of going more for software thank you for all this I will finish reading these when I get home
sent from one ba hero
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/motorola-announces-modular-smartphone-project-ara/
[Holy ****] Motorola Announces Project Ara, An Open, Modular Smartphone Hardware Platform
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/
Motorola is inviting people across the globe to become Ara Scouts. Over the next 6 - 12 months, we'll be doing research to shape the direction of Project Ara. You can help by collaborating with us on special missions.
http://www.dscout.com/ara
After the trip, we asked ourselves, how do we bring the benefits of an open hardware ecosystem to 6 billion people? Meet Ara. - See more at:
http://motorola-blog.blogspot.ca/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html
My post at http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...ip-and-offers-another-glimpse-of-project-ara/
I'm excited too, though still cautious/skeptical.
I'm sure MANY people have thought about such a concept Lego-type phone/everything device over the decades. My first serious but skeptical thoughts were in 2001, noting that it seemed wasteful to buy a digital video/still camera (at 2001 prices) over and over again for many different devices. But 12 years have made me even more skeptical about the practical realities.
This holds promise, but without specific guarantees; I look forward to seeing what happens.
Many/most engineers started with Lego or Mechano (my fave) when young and want to see similar in the real, practical world.
Linux is the Lego of Operating Systems.
Android AOSP is the Lego of Mobile Operating Systems.
Google, then MIT App Inventor is at least one of the Lego's of Android app development.
Arduino shields and similar are Lego for micro-controller hardware.
I look forward to Lego like pieces for phones, tablets, "laptops" and other devices.
I guess I'll sign up for the special missions of an "Ara Scout" and hope to not be disappointed: http://www.dscout.com/ara#
EDIT: Uh, oh, looks like DScout is some weird 3rd party thing that makes this all look like a lame-ish marketing ploy at this time...
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
I'm hoping it really happens. And if it is true that Moto has been working on this for a year already then I think its at least somewhat encouraging.
My OP was moved here from the Hardware Hacking forum.
This new section is named "MDK Hacking".
MDK = Module Developer's Kit which will allow 3rd party module development. It's supposed to be released sometime "this winter".
I'm personally interested in getting an FM receiver, AND transmitter module created. While were at it, maybe w/ a chip for HD/Dab+/DMB radio. Might as well keep wishing and go for digital broadcast TV and effectively anything with a Software Defined Radio, LOL.
As for Project Ara in general, a few days of sober second thought, and the reading and thought processing of the several hundred posts I read, have put me more back in the skeptical range.
But I'd be happy even if this went no further than a reasonably successful hobbyist oriented eco-system, like Arduino.
Jane and Joe average "6 pack" could not care less how their phone or tablet were built. But the people who run custom ROMs, and they number in the many millions now, may find this compelling.
I'm imaging a robot, with an Android tablet as a head (with face(s) LOL.) Hooked to the head/brain are redundant communications paths to the rest of the body. The rest of the body may have their own small USB flash drive or less sized Android devices for specialty tasks.
Heck, with the right parts, the robot could disassemble and re-assemble itself, as needed. We've seen Futurama's Bender do so many times, ROFL.
And there are thousands of other cool and interesting non-robot uses for all this stuff. Someday soon, if not already, a sizable percentage of science fair projects will contain a connected Android device.
There may even be many useful business use cases, to add to all the fun stuff.
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
hai vl con bo
sharknado said:
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trthrujy ghikvb dfhg
---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------
mikereidis said:
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
navg fghj fduyhjm
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------
sharknado said:
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
Click to expand...
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con bo
I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.
WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.
As per the mod bump i guess