Database Users

Camera Comparison of DOOM (Warning: if you have bandwidth caps, steer clear)

OK so here it is. I took some time this evening with an old Galaxy S, a new(ish) Galaxy S2, a shiny new Galaxy S3, and an iPhone 4S (for good measure).
Problem statement: Samsung has been accused of equipping some versions of the Galaxy S3 with an inferior image sensor, providing degraded low light sensitivity when compared to the Galaxy S2 and other top phones. This is bad because customers expect to be purchasing a tested and true level of quality with their new device, not buying into a game of chance "which sensor do you get with your $200 and two year contract?"
Background: Samsung, like most large companies, has a limited supply chain. Many times with a product launch such as large as this, they will take shortcuts. Usually, these shortcuts are not major problems. Apple does this all the time, they use memory modules from different manufactures, capacitors from different places, etc. Samsung does this as well. It only becomes a problem when something major, such as the camera/battery/glass/etc is enough different to change the user experience. It has been proven that on the Galaxy S2 and Galaxy S3 samsung has sourced their image sensor from two locations:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Methods: Well, this is no lab test. I tested these phones side by side, one at a time. I took at least 3 pictures for each image shown and selected my favorite. The first images use auto everything because that is going to be the most common setting (and in the case of the iPhone, the ONLY setting, minus HDR mode). Following this I enabled night mode on the androids and took another set of images. Pictures were selected with 100% bias towards what I thought looked nice overall, nothing more. No tripod was used, but I tried to keep each phone as steady as possible. It's my job to perform microsurgery (on occasion) so I think I'm qualified to hold the phone still enough. No other settings were messed with.
I did not try to find good angles for the phones, instead I placed them in situations where the lighting was poor/hellish. The pictures were all taken indoors with few/no lights on, with ambient light messing up the shots, and no flash (which would have made all of these shots 10000x better). It was overcast and late in the evening.
First off, camera firmware for the S2 and S3
The iPhone should be shaking with all this epicness in front of it
In this set, the iphone would autofocus both outside and inside so both images are shown. No matter where I tapped to focus with the Galaxy's, I could not get the chair to come out clear. I could have adjusted the settings manually I guess. I re-sized the S1 image here accidentally (it's 5MP not 8MP). The iPhone, S1 and S3 all did well, with the edge going to the iPhone and S1 (surprisingly)... the S2 and S3 were very temperamental.
This set threw in some motion. I wouldn't try to quantify it, however. When that dog gets excited there isn't a camera anywhere fast enough to avoid motion blur. The framing was difficult as I was trying to keep the dog in the picture, but anyway, the S3 on auto had my favorite results overall. With night mode enabled
the S2 and S3 both looked good, I feel the S2 took the best shot with night mode.
In this set, the S3 night mode and HDR beat everything else hands down. The S2 looked good, but I had issues keeping it still, the S3 was very sharp each time despite the increased exposure.
Getting into pure darkness without a flash (who does this???), I only compared the S2 and S3. The S1 did surprisingly well here... but it's old tech so nobody cares. The iPhone was just black screen, nothing to compare. As for my take on these... yes, the S3 is REALLY red. That means the S3 has a crappy IR filter. But all hope is not lost... anybody that knows anything about night vision knows that IR and near-IR light is the most valuable. The fact that the sensor is able to collect this much IR really helps it "see" in the dark, even if it's primarily one color. While this may cause some minor problems at normal light levels (very minor, since this light is hardly present, remember the lights are almost totally off here), by passing the S3 image through some very minor filters in photoshop the image comes out beautiful. The third image looks almost identical to how the scene looked to my own eyes, slightly yellow hue from the dim lights, redish wood table. IMO at least.
Moving into some real situations, here is a macro shot of the S1 and S3
And in finale, my dirty car. The S1/2/3 all had good color reproduction, with the S2/3 having more detail, and the S3 the best overall. The iPhone kept trying to focus on the wheel (It either thought it was a face, or Siri was getting hot for the rims) which was the cause for the bad white balance.
In conclusion, in three generations of camera's, the biggest change is in detail. In all of the S1 images, noise is present in much higher amounts, although it held in WAY better than I expected for its age. As for the S3 being worse than the S2, for at least these tests I do not believe this to be the case. If anything they are very comparable. While some see the excess near-IR on night shots as a bad thing, remember it is always a tradeoff. Less IR (red) makes the shot more balanced naturally, but since the other wavelengths will be so sparse you will have little (or no) detail. At least with the red, you can regain vasts amounts of detail, and post process a little bit later to get a very nice picture. On a side note, I noticed the S3 compresses its pictures more than both the S2 and the iPhone4S. The only phone with smaller images was the S1, and it has a 5mp camera. This may not be a factor for anything, but I did find it interesting.
To not offend any apple fans, considering the fact they have zero control over the functioning of the camera, it did pretty well. Had the flash been used (like they should have been), I believe the S3 and iPhone would have been pretty much tied. I don't like apple, but I did try my best to be fair and take good pictures with all phones.
I do apologize for not having the GDxxxx firmware S3, as many were looking forward to seeing it in this comparison. I hope this helps somebody out there regardless. Lastly, unadulterated pictures can be found https://picasaweb.google.com/117440914475223218617/CameraComparison?authuser=0&feat=directlink with all the exif data you could ever need if you can sort through them.

hmm, looks like not many images are showing up... i'll add links instead
*edit* gotta give it lots of time to load

Nice review
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

thank you for taking the time to put this together, excellent job!

Great comparison shots. Thanks! :good:

How do you enable night mode? I looked in camera settings and I do not see it, I'm using the AT&T version.

newtoandroid99 said:
How do you enable night mode? I looked in camera settings and I do not see it, I'm using the AT&T version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera - > settings - > scene mode - > Night
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda premium

do you think there's a difference between the Samsung and Sony image sensor for the S3? If so which is better?

I don't believe that has been determined yet, but hopefully it will be soon. It seems like the general consensus is the Sony sensor has better low light performance and may have less blooming in bright light, but we are still trying to get a direct comparison so anything anybody says right now is just a guess. Hopefully I will be able to make a quick comparison this weekend if I can get away from my work for a while. Personally, I am happy with the samsung sensors performance as it is very good, but it's always nice to know which sensor is the king.

So how do I determine which Image sensor my S3 has?

Nice comparison. I feel like my wife's 4S takes better photos sometimes.
Thanks for taking the time
Sent from my SGH-T999

georgei11 said:
Nice comparison. I feel like my wife's 4S takes better photos sometimes.
Thanks for taking the time
Sent from my SGH-T999
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup same here, some pictures look better in my wife phone. Sad thing is that iPhone 4s came out last year, now iPhone 5 will probably have even better camera this year, but I'm fine with the gs3 I only use the pictures for Facebook and mms
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

jdpdata said:
So how do I determine which Image sensor my S3 has?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
type *#34971539# in the dialer, then click Phone/CAM FW Ver Check at the top.
If the string of numbers at the bottom starts with a ZDxxxx you have a samsung it is believed, while a prefix of
GDxxxx is believed to be the Sony image sensor.
It doesn't surprise me that the iPhone4S takes better pictures in normal conditions for many, the camera, audio chip and video processor are the best designed pieces on the 4S imo and remain the bar. The camera app is totally automated and does a lot of processing in the background invisible to the user. These pictures were mainly set up to compare the cameras in situations that small cameras innately struggle with. I mostly put the 4S in as a type of standard/control since I felt a real camera would make them all look silly, and many are familiar with the 4S.
Comparing the 4S to the S2/S3/OneX in typical lighting situations is something that has been beaten into the ground by many, with everything from tripods to image analysis software with no obvious winner (depending on who you ask). The only things I feel comfortable saying are that the 4S is easier to take good pictures with, while our phone takes practice and skill due to many more options, and that the 4S is utterly useless in darkness while our phones are only somewhat useless. Anyway I'm no photographer, just a science nerd with some fancy phones

I posted this over on the international, but for anyone concerned about the camera. I'm going to attempt to swap out the camera for the other module. My Pebble Blue AT&T has the Metal Housing that people talk about along with the ZD firmware. I took my phone apart and checked, it's super easy. I went on Ebay and found what appears to be the Sony module based on pictures from the International forum and the iFixit page. The cameras, parts and the way these phones come apart are essentially identical. There were even some labels on the inside that said GT-I9300. I'll let you guys know when I get the parts.

duowing said:
I posted this over on the international, but for anyone concerned about the camera. I'm going to attempt to swap out the camera for the other module. My Pebble Blue AT&T has the Metal Housing that people talk about along with the ZD firmware. I took my phone apart and checked, it's super easy. I went on Ebay and found what appears to be the Sony module based on pictures from the International forum and the iFixit page. The cameras, parts and the way these phones come apart are essentially identical. There were even some labels on the inside that said GT-I9300. I'll let you guys know when I get the parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a 32gb blue Sprint version with the ZD firmware and im pretty upset about it. I exchanged it and got another one with a ZD firmware. I'm beginning to think that the GD Firmware (sony) modules are only in the 16gb versions. Are there any folks out there with 32gb blue's that have gd firmware?

spydc said:
I have a 32gb blue Sprint version with the ZD firmware and im pretty upset about it. I exchanged it and got another one with a ZD firmware. I'm beginning to think that the GD Firmware (sony) modules are only in the 16gb versions. Are there any folks out there with 32gb blue's that have gd firmware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have 16gb claro panama blue and it ZD version. chill, there is not a huge difference in quality both are BSI
and ZD is only firmware, u may still ahve sony imx 175 bsi sensor

Confusing reviews

Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
However i have also seen two reviews that say the opposite and claim the display is the best 720p they have ever seen, the camera is among the best out there and that battery life is incredible!
Can anyone that owns the device give they're impressions?
Currently own a htc one m7 which has been good to me . I often change phones regularly but have kept this for almost 2 years and it works flawlessly and is still as snappy as ever to this day so iam slightly worried about the z3 compact not being a significant upgrade! Ill miss the htc sense widgets and although iam not fan of the sony home screen and lock screen look , Iam loving the specs and the fact i can use the phone comfortable in one hand! Would have got the z3 but see it as being a little too big

Blaalad12 said:
Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
However i have also seen two reviews that say the opposite and claim the display is the best 720p they have ever seen, the camera is among the best out there and that battery life is incredible!
Can anyone that owns the device give they're impressions?
Currently own a htc one m7 which has been good to me . I often change phones regularly but have kept this for almost 2 years and it works flawlessly and is still as snappy as ever to this day so iam slightly worried about the z3 compact not being a significant upgrade! Ill miss the htc sense widgets and although iam not fan of the sony home screen and lock screen look , Iam loving the specs and the fact i can use the phone comfortable in one hand! Would have got the z3 but see it as being a little too big
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll soon be buying this phone as well. About the resolution, my current phone has the same resolution on a slightly smaller display of 4.3", with a pixel density of 342 ppi and the image is so sharp that I cannot distinguish pixels with the naked eye no matter how hard I try. The Z3 Compact has 319 ppi on its 4.6" display, which really isn't much lower at all. I can imagine the pixels will still be too small to distinguish with the naked eye. Okay, maybe if, for some reason, you use the phone under a magnifying glass or if you hold it flat against your face, it won't look very sharp (duh). But if you just use your phone like normal, I'm sure the display on the Z3C will appear perfectly sharp.
About the colour: ExpertReviews, for example, claims that the whites are white enough (they describe it as "ice white"). They mention the white balance option on the device, but said that they felt no need to adjust the white balance.

With regard to camera quality, most reviews had it in Superior Auto Mode that saves the file about 8MP. Those who own one are saying the Manual Mode is where you can see the pic quality excel. I trust DXO mark more than others. Here's how they rank the phones based on IQ. This is the older generation Z2 that is using very similar lens albeit there is slight improvement on the Z3. Just not sure if the improvement is in the hardware or software. Full review can be found here:
http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Sony-Xperia-Z2-overview-Revised-model-takes-first-place-in-Mobile-rankings
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

I just got my Z3c today; I've had a M8 until today and a M7 before that. I honestly can't tell that the screen is 720 instead of 1080, and everything, from pictures to videos to text, looks very sharp. I don't see any color accuracy issues, and I'd say color reproduction is the same (as far as I can tell) as on the M8 and M7. I love the size of the device, and it's a great feeling to be able to use my phone with 1 hand lol. I'd say go for it!

LastQuark said:
With regard to camera quality, most reviews had it in Superior Auto Mode that saves the file about 8MP. Those who own one are saying the Manual Mode is where you can see the pic quality excel. I trust DXO mark more than others. Here's how they rank the phones based on IQ. This is the older generation Z2 that is using very similar lens albeit there is slight improvement on the Z3. Just not sure if the improvement is in the hardware or software. Full review can be found here:
http://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles/Sony-Xperia-Z2-overview-Revised-model-takes-first-place-in-Mobile-rankings
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhh they have the Nokia 1020 under the Iphone 5 and s4... that can't be right

First off, 720/1080p means nothing. Pixel density is what actually matters, and 720p at 4.6" is more than high enough to be a non-issue unless you hold the phone up to your eyeballs.
Likewise, megapixel count doesn't mean as much as people think. The sensor size matters more, and at 1/3" it's larger than most. It's not the best smartphone camera on the market, but it's still quite good.
The colors are poorly calibrated out of the box, and it does look bad, but it's trivial to fix in the color settings, so that's not really a big deal.
Battery life is never as good as the manufacturer claims, but it's still pretty good so far. I haven't had it long enough to really tell you for sure though.

Blaalad12 said:
Hi guys. I rang my local store here today and got a price of €420 euro for the z3 without contract which seems pretty good given that the samsung alpha here is €570. Also the z3 compact is priced at being £430 in the uk so not quiet sure why its cheaper here in Ireland as usually we pay more for products then anywhere else ha
Anyways iam tempted to pull the trigger but for some confusing reviews i have read! Most reviews claim the resolution is poor and the screen is not as sharp as the competition, images look washed out and the camera is not as good as you would expect from a 20.7mp camera , color accuracy is way off and images look washed out etc and one review claimed the battery life was ok but not as good as sony claimed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- I'm sorry but any review that complains about the resolution not being sharp enough you can just ignore, because that reviewer clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about...
- Color calibration in terms of the screen can be changed to your liking, most/many people don't like the default color scheme so they did some adjustments.
- Camera really isn't as bad as they say... in some situations it's not as good as the rest, but it's NOT BAD (That's mostly in low light situations)
My tip for you:
Don't get your phone based on other people reviews, because they seem to affect you A LOT! There are more positive reviews than bad ones, but yet you seem to have picked out the bad ones.
Get the phone in your hands (in a shop), play with it and then decide.

The display for me is the single most important aspect of any mobile, and I've not bought any of the Z Series because of it (although the Z2 display did look good). For that reason I was extremely judgemental when first using the Z3C.
I don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of quality or sharpness. The contrast is great and the default calibration does indeed produce icy whites (which I personally prefer to warmer whites).
I haven't used the camera yet, but other things that have impressed me are the build quality - especially the finish of the plastic sides, the bezels, which looks smaller in person than the promo photos suggest, and the sheer speed of the device. It's incredibly snappy!
I'm more impressed than I thought I'd be
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

@stormbeta, it's a 1/2.3 sensor

Cronis said:
Uhh they have the Nokia 1020 under the Iphone 5 and s4... that can't be right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with the 1020 is it's great at certain things, awful at others. It's a really inconsistent camera. DxO's ratings reward consistency - a camera that's pretty good at everything trumps one that's really good at some things. That's why the last few iPhones have scored so high - they do a decent job of most things.
In their element, the 1020 and 808 are unbeaten. Unfortunately they aren't that great as day-to-day snappers.

I'm very impressed by this device so far coming from a galaxy s3. The display is absolutely fine. Everyone that says otherwise is just a spec whore (xcuse my language). And you can even tweak the colors yourself!
And the best part: 720p with high end hardware means silky smooth operation in every situation. I have never held an android device this fast. Even turning the screen on is just instant. No lag whatsoever. I'd say this is even faster than iPhone.
Camera? I have no idea about quality but the dedicated button is more important for my use than quality. If I want to make quality pictures I don't use my smartphone anyway..
If you want a high end smartphone in a smaller form factor this is the best device out there. No doubt about it.

Sony's Camera isn't great, but it could be worse...

We all give Sony a hard time for releasing flagship devices with mediocre camera performance. I personally can verify that my previous HTC phones (One mini, One S, and even the Ville aka MyTouch 4G) dating back nearly 4 years all had better color reproduction, white balance, indoor performance, and faster focus and shutter response. None of those were even considered flagship devices at the time of release. We assumed Sony's problem was the software, so many of us searched for 3rd party camera apps such as Google Camera, A Better Camera, Camera FV-5, etc... and some even claimed to get better results using these apps. I've tried just about all of them (free versions only) and never saw any dramatic improvement to make me replace the default camera app. I finally decided to compare shots side by side on a couple of my personal favorite camera apps and here's what I noticed:
The 3rd party apps over-exposed the scene with far too much flash, giving it that cold LED light look, and washing out some of the natural colors. But worst of all, they weren't as clear when zooming in as the default app was. Pay close attention to the can of WD40 in the back. Only the stock app makes the word "Directions" visibly clear. All photos were taken using Auto Mode at 8MP - the setting the average person will use daily.
Sample Photos In Order (from left to right):
- Sony Stock Camera App
- Google Camera App
- OpenCamera App
https://goo.gl/photos/ihkstAg95Ag8rybX7
I took a few comparison shots in scenes that I thought would cause the stock app to falter, but it kept coming through and beating the competition. For example, when taking a picture of a poster that was covered by a slight shadow, the stock app was the only app smart enough to use flash; thereby making the words of the poster much clearer. In another indoor scenario, the competition once again over exposed the scene with too much flash, washing out the colors again. I may post these photos later if you request them.
Moral of the story:
Compared to other smartphones (especially flagships), Sony's camera is simply one of the worst performers. <-----(This is a click-able link to the results of a test article) There is no argument here and someone from Sony needs to do something about it. But as for the stock Sony camera app, it appears to utilize the camera better than 3rd party apps can. So if you want to make the best of out our bad situation, stick with the stock camera app.

I agree that the camera on the Z3C is somewhat lacking.
Outdoors in good light it can produce some really nice photos (some of the time) although even in good conditions it still seems to make a mess of things on occasions. Indoors and low light it's just plain terrible. I've done a back to back comparison with my rather elderly SGS3 and in most circumstances the SGS3 knocks the spots off the Z3C.
The problem is marketing.
In order to produce compelling marketing material, Sony developed the 20MP sensor and put this in all their flagship phones. This is way too many MP for such a small sensor and as such the quality suffers badly in anything other than bright sunlight. Even when interpolating the image down to 8MP you still see way more noise than the equivalent true 8MP sensor and the details are mushed to buggery. I'd be happy for the resolution on smartphones to top out at 10MP, which should be enough for 4K video and multiple aspect ratios (not that I think 4K video from a smartphone has much use).

sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.

As a photographer, you of all people should understand that a camera phone is not likely to be used when taking serious photos. This is designed to be a point and shoot replacement for selfies, pictures of food, group photos of friends in a restaurant, etc... This phone's camera isn't a complete failure by any means, but it simply doesn't perform as well as phones from 2-3 years ago under the most basic condition (indoors). I'm just finding it difficult to explain why my $500 flagship phone takes overexposed, blurry photos when my old phones (none of which were even flagship models) did not.

Starlith said:
We all know auto mode sucks isn't that right? Well Sony hasn't designed this phone for you, i have taken some absolutely stunning photos that my friends think were taken with a proper camera. The truth is that I'm a photographer that tries to push the hardware and software to the limit and if your having a good day you can produce stunning works of art. Sure there's a bit of noise but you can't expect fullframe image quality on this sensor. Taking a backwards step from my Nex7 to the Z3 compact was a great learning experience. If you're a photographer that likes to push the limits of a camera this one is for you, if your the average joe your wasting your time. Think about it, when you buy a camera what is the point of using auto mode when it limits the amount of control you have over a photo. Its like driving an automatic transmission car at a drag race.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.

mad-marco said:
I am also a photographer (enthusiastic amateur and no expert for sure) who has worked for a software company in the digital imaging industry for 7 years. I get to sample a lot of cameras; including pre-production test mules, some of which never make it due to unrecoverable issues. I have tried the Z3C in every conceivable mode and it's still a disappointment in low light and unpredictable when it's good light. A brief summary of the biggest issues I've seen would include:
1) Poor light performance - It's not even low light, the performance is poor in moderate lighting conditions (20MP is too much for such a small sensor and lens)
2) Unpredictable auto focus - It misses what should be an easy AF fix more often than it should do
3) Too much NR - TBH this is a personal criticism of almost every camera currently made, but the NR on the Z3C is a bit nasty
4) Even the best shots seem to lack "definition"
I'm not saying that the camera is a complete dead-loss, but for a flagship smartphone it's not as good as I would expect. I don't think that I've taken a single picture with it where I've got home, uploaded it to my PC and thought it was really good. I've checked back through my SGS3 pictures and at a glance the best images look like they've come from a "proper" camera, I can't say that for many of the Z3C images. I'd really like to be able to get RAW images out of the camera to see what is possible with decent post processing, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen any time soon.
If you could give some hints about how to get the most out of the camera, then I for one would very much appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.

Starlith said:
I agree with you, it does have its limits and they are really weird limits. For example when in manual mode anything that is set to auto including white balance and focus is either hit or miss, there is no touch metering, i have taken some stunners but they required me to work hard for it such as adjusting wb, iso, focus mode. Even the background defocus app which produced amazing photos btw i had to work really hard for. All that work on a phone is exhausting. Too many apps complicate the camera app and the post processing algorithm is inconsistent. Im interested what the results would be with a lens similar to the iPhone 6. The best thing about the camera is the wide angle lens but no one really cares for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.

PuffDaddy_d said:
I personally don't even like the wide angle lens. It just forces me to stand that much closer to my subject to properly frame the shot. Then, if using flash, you blind them because you're standing 1 foot in front of their face. Anyway, I thought a sony branded lens/sensor was being used on most high end phones these days... even the iPhone? We just got stuck with poor image processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.

and if you came from a Nokia flagship this difference is even bigger ....

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already got several DSLR's thanks very much. I don't think that anyone is expecting DSLR like quality, in fact you seem to be the only person who has brought this up.
I think that what people would like is the the camera on Sony's flagship smartphones to be comparable with other smartphones, especially the ones that have the same sensor hardware!!! It's a disappointment that the 2/3 year old SGS3 produces superior photos than the current Sony flagships, the current Samsung 16MP cameras are vastly superior.

Revontheus said:
When you buy a phone you don't expect it to take pictures like an SLR Camera would, that being said though I still think 20 mp is more than enough for taking snapshots. If you complain about the camera quality then you shouldn't have bought a phone in the first place and buy a DSLR instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have completely missed the point of this thread. It has nothing to do with expecting DSLR quality from a camera phone. We just don't want pictures to look like they were taken from a flip phone from 2006 - which is what this camera looks like when taking photos indoors. A flagship phone needs a flagship camera, and Sony's image processing has left us without, while all other major manufacturers are using some form of Sony image sensor and getting much better results.
But as my original post indicates, the best photos I've been able to get from this camera are with the stock camera app. All others seem to fall short when viewed on a larger screen.

ray_J13 said:
Wajk said:
sensor not bad, driver sometimes is...
Exmor IMX220 Shoot Out – Meizu MX4 Pro vs Sony Xperia Z3
indeed sony's pic are washed out but the looking at the "lay's" and "muji" comparision, meizu's pics are blurred.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me the camera glass on her Z3C was a bit smudged... That would explain the haze.
And the small details on the Z3C look much better and cleaner at 100% zoom than on the Meizu, even if the Z3C was a bit out of focus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Crewville96 said:
I'm so disappointed in this camera. I took my Z3C and my old HTC Droid Incredible 2 to a concert last night. Inc2's pics were much crisper and cleaner. The videos were better as well (at 720p), though the sound on the Z3C's vids were better. Inc2 is what, 4 years old?
Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can upload the vids and couple pics. None of the pics are really the same for comparison since i was in the crowd at the concert though. But you can get a general idea.

PuffDaddy_d said:
Yes, this is our point exactly! The Z3C camera has far more advanced technology in it, yet the results are sub par to midrange and outdated phones. Care to share any of your pics for reference?
Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's my vids. One is from my old Droid Incredible 2 (2011, running GB) the other is from my Z3C (2014, running LP). I'll let you guys judge which vid is better.

That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.

PuffDaddy_d said:
That concert looks like it was a lot of fun! I watched both videos on full screen and i personally think the top video looks better - less grainy and handled the bright lighting much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, just cleaner and sharper overall. Thats the Droid Incredible 2 video (720 only as well, Z3C is at 1080 lol).

So the S7 camera performs better than the Z5/Z5P ? I can't stop laughing...

Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?

It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk

Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.

Well money talks. S7 just cant match Z1+ line. Take a look at original S7 full resolution photos. Photo IQ is awfull on the S7. Over-sharpening that creates awfull halos and contrast, to much texture detail, texture extraction that gives a gritty look and to much noise reduction that makes for a blurry image with lost detail and plastic look. S7 has borderline the bad CRT chromatic aberration look and reminds me of old cheap digital cameras.
I'll quote one of my other posts wher one can see that even in an unfair comparision that favors the S7 my Z1 just performs much better. Much better and if making things more even by choosing 2048x1536 for my Z1 photos and same or similar for S7 my Z1 just walks all over the S7. Z5 does no worse unless in SA or the NR goes wonky.
When I look at S7 photos in good and low light it just reminds me of the bad CRT "chromatic aberration" look. Great artistic value but the persons S7 destroys IQ beyond reparation. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/
I mean even the Z1 blows it out and Z5 even more. Look at this comparision which favors the S7 as the images are shown at 100% size which means my Z1 is showing a far bigger image aswell as in worse lighting conditions with far less photons in the ambient to capture (see shutter speed difference) yet it performs better. Would I scale it down to same size as the S7 it would be a brutal comparision leaving the S7 in the dust. One can choose 2048 pixel width to see this in the links.
Stock original photos, default camera apps.
S7 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25743187832/sizes/o/
Z1 buildings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25516883060/sizes/o/
S7 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
Z1 forest.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/csls/25019022984/sizes/o/
Might take some time some day with the Z5c and capture photos in same locations once the sun is about same (wild weather over here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And here are more S7 samples.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25837956126/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25208922064/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25404249180/sizes/o/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinfabl100/25021532094/sizes/o/
And here is low light.
Will check files once released here and compare CRC to see if they changed algorithms. As for the S7 I agree, it does moderately good but far worse than Sonys Xperia Z1+ line. The biggest issue on the S7 besides tending to go overboard with sharpening and noise reduction which smoothes out to much and gives a bad fake plastic look (often easily visible around fine-grain detail like branches and leaves) is that it also when post-processing brightens up the image by tweaking curves. Most software does this but should be catiously used to extract detail from low contrast areas. Samsung goes overboard often giving it the 'fake ISO' look where black turns grey. Xperia Z1+ phones give quite a bit better low light photos same ISO for ISO and shutter speed while not even having to resort to major curve tweaking just minor or barely any and it does it selectively in a often excellent way. I assume the BIONZ is really a power beast for such dedicated tasks but sensors in Sonys phones are just better even though older and they are coupled with great optics.
It's just now that Samsung is starting use similar tech that Sony already employed in their mobiles years ago. I think Iphone 6s also got a bit of it but it relies mostly on multi-frame photo composition to create higher ISO like the Nexus 6p HDR+ does. Xperia Z1+ also does this but only when doing ISO 6400 (atleast the Z1) else not. Problem is you need to keep scene static else you get ghosting and bluriness. Haven't checked it fully out for the Z5c though but it should do better.
I guess you could say the S6 gives more detail and less blur but it also has way to much curve tweaking as the S7 but just much worse for same low light situations. S6 just turns to a mess at ISO 1000+ and low light while S7 does better. Both S6 and S7 also automatically (atleast in auto mode) if stable does multi-frame capture in low light to create improved noise reduction. Why some S6/S7 photos at say ISO 1000 looks bad and others much cleaner. Scene has to be static though and mobile firm. Same concept you can find in ProCapture camera app and their noise reduction mode.
Photo example of the S7 post-processing and curves.
Without HDR enabled.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
With HDR enabled.
Sony avoids this in most cases and dont go overboard like that keeping blacks deep and rich aswell as colors punchy and representation of captured scene is far better.
And a Z1 sample from manual mode 8MP, 1/8 ISO 3200. Little and smart use of brightening via the changing curves despite high ISO of 3200 keeping the blacks quite well, global contrast and colors punchy despite heavy tungsten lighting!
Manual mode, 1/8 ISO 1600 of same scene two days apart around same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?

Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?[/QUOTE]
Let me answer :
Are you able to drive faster in a Bentley than in a Renault even if you are a bad driver ?
Yes !!!
Same with photos quality (not photo skills)
I agree that the human factor is there but can not excuse all Sony conservative attitude plus Sony do not want to let 3rd party improve their lack of dev.
But still happy with my Z5 result... It is a phone and we do not have to expect the same quality as a Reflex

NJ72 said:
The sensor is just one part of the camera, there are so many other elements that can make it better or worse.
That's like saying one restaurant has better steak and complaining as somewhere else uses better cows - it's all about the cooking of the meat and the accompaniments that go with it.
In photography's case it's about the lens system, the image stabilisation and the post-processing. As posters above have said, the software controlling the Sony sensor in the S7 is great, no doubt.
Answer me this: if you give an amazing camera to a bad photographer will you get a better photo than giving a bad camera to a good photographer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.

Xeon said:
I understand what you're trying to say but is it justified ? Is it possible that SONY can't make a software that control their own sensors ? Is it acceptable that other companies using SONY sensors whether modified or not, can make better use of it ?
SONY that has been in the photography industry since decades can't deal with their own driver and post processors on a mobile phone ?
Again the pictures on the Z5P are good but try going zoom to 100%... most of the details are missing compared to rivals.... not sure if it's lack of sharpness whatsoever but certainly the post processing needs work.
Look at their Z5 camera promotion bragging about the auto-focus speed... I literally had to find one single time I could get a a clear photo of somebody moving.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of the device but it just puts me on my nerve that we have the best hardware and the " best " brand name yet we always have excuses for the camera behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.

NJ72 said:
In my opinion it's quite obvious with the Z5 premium that Sony spent more time focussing on the display than the camera's image processing. Sony could do a lot more with the camera than they do, but there are numerous other factors Sony consider when designing a smartphone. Evidently they either A) do not have the skills, B) don't rate it high enough or C) think they nailed it when it comes to the camera.
I agree that Sony should have done more with it, but I bought the phone knowing that they hadn't and I'd buy it again over Samsung's TouchWiz interface. I prefer my DSLR for photography, for me the rest of the phone is more important.
And, in answer to your first question, yes - what I said is justified. Whether it's what you'd have done if you were part of Sony's dev team, who knows, but what they did is make a very good phone with a camera that could be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well to be honest, SONY only brags about their camera performance in their devices.... This time in September they mentioned nothing but the 4K screen and the IMX300. No major change to the device design, software is close to stock android and the IP68 has been there for ages.
http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/phones/xperia-z5/
See ? They are so proud of their camera that this is the only marketing card in their hands for now. As for lack of expertise, I really doubt but I can nothing but believe that they thought they nailed it when in fact it's still horrible in low light conditions.

The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi

FYLin21 said:
The big problem I have with the Z5 is its shutter lag and no burst shooting. So you're left with rapidly tapping the shutter button which only gives you about 3fps. On the S7 you get a burst mode at over 20fps.
It's ridiculous how their ads show an instantaneous shutter but it could be no further from the truth. Even with Marshmallow the shutter lag is still pretty bad. This seagull was standing on the bridge when I pressed the shutter and the camera captured when it already started to fly away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5hcj2jeazzjs77/DSC_0988.JPG?dl=0
Even HTC M9+ Supreme Camera has faster shutter and better manual options than Z5. It uses IMX230 and is a pretty bi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
One thing I noticed is that even Whatsapp camera looks awful. I understand that the pic is compressed and the post processing is non existent but on my Xperia Z the difference wasn't noticeable that much.

gm007 said:
Very easy good hardware and bad software.
Sony can't compete software wise with who had nexus phones.
Samsung LG know better about android and how to create a better software cause they took lot of info from Google while they have Nexus phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but I tend to disagree. I dont think OEM release need google assistance. In fact SONY is very conservative when it comes to camera software. I bet they know how to unlock raw mode and compatibility yet they don't want to.
It's obvious that the post processing has been inconsistent across the Xperia line. A bit of trial and error if you want my opinion....
What you say about bad software is correct however unjustified. I can't accept it from an industry leader such as SONY.
OK the camera is almost perfect in manual mode if you want to go hardcore and adjust every possible value and mode for a snapshot but I don't want to spend 2 minutes for that :
Look at the difference between iPhone 6S and Z5 camera.... this lack of details is what makes me go nuts.

Xeon said:
This is what I'm talking about... you see... in your pic nothing looks OK, what was the focus doing ? i can't find any part of the pic clear....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been zoomed a bit using "clear image zoom" which just oversharpens things. It could be fine if they just use something that rounds off the edges for up sampling, but you see a lot of jagged circular blobs throughout the edges. I had taken a few pictures of this bird standing there but the camera kept overexposing the scene. Then I brought the exposure down and tried taking a photo - the bird a still standing there the moment I pressed the shutter.
The only thing to get around no burst mode is using 4K video. You can capture 8MP stills while you film but sometimes it causes the video to stutter and it takes a long time to save them. The stills also look worse than the video itself - the contrast is lower with washed out colours. It's better to grab frames after filming but you'l need another app to do this and I'm not sure which one as I do it on my computer using Media Player Classic. You can also crop to 1080p which is better than using the digital zoom in the app - unfortunately the bitrate of 4K video is a bit low so you can see some artifacts when cropped to 1080p ...
Is the shutter lag due to software or hardware? it's hard to say. Low resolution photos from Facebook messenger can be taken instantaneously, but all the third party apps I've tried exhibit shutter lag - I think even worse than the stock camera app... and don't forget only 8MP works with third party apps.
If the images were downscaled to 8MP or something, they would be good compared to some other cameras but that defeats the purpose of having 20/23MP.
Imagine seeing the loch ness monster and you took a photo but the shutter lag means your photo doesn't show it because it dove into the water

I will give you a small example why sony is bad software wise,
In lollipop we had fingerprint scanner test in the diagnostic menu and the test was not working.
So instead to fix it in marshmallow they removed the test completely lol.

Xeon said:
Ok I'm Kinda mad here... There are things I don't understand and I will probably never....
How on earth, would every review on the internet including youtube videos give the upper hand to the S7 camera which has SONY IMX260 R EXMOR that has 7.18 mm sensor size and a 1.4 μm x 1.4 μm unit cell size while the Z5/Premium has the "exclusive cutting edge" RS EXMOR IMX300 with 7.87 mm sensor size and 1.1 μm x 1.1 μm pixel size ?
And please don't tell me about image processing ? Why on earth a giant Japanese corporation such as SONY specialized and leader in photography, videography, pictures and music Entertainment without forgetting their BIONZ image processor that compete or even wins over Nikon EXPEED and
Canon DIGIC can't do image processing right on a freaking CMOS sensor ?
Now yeah the Z5/P pictures are decent and although very good on a very sunny day.... I'll remain quiet for the low light part....
So to sum it up... a Samsung with an IMX260 12MP sensor is on par or outperforms a Sony IMX300 23MP ( 25MP ) sensor...
Funny isn't it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.

danw_oz said:
No, and it's no surprise, it has been the case forever.
There was never any need for Sony to stupidly try to play the MP race again, seems they didn't learn from the point and shoot and DSLR MP race/nonsense. It's all marketing BS to say hey we've got something that no one else has.
Push the boundaries of the ideal MP for a certain sensor size, then you will always have problems with different types of noise entering your photo, due to sensor heat and the sensors small size and not being able to dissipate that amount of heat effectively, as a result to clean all this up they end up having to have pretty aggressive noise reduction algorithms, this also keeps the jpg photo size down a fair bit, handy for a phone unless you want to run your storage out in no time flat. Approx 25-35MB per photo @ 23MP low light high ISO these could have been even bigger.
Realistically would have just been better off running at 12MP and requiring much less noise reduction because due to less heat build up in the photo sites of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ironically their sales and marketing strategy is flawed to death and it's chaotic but they wanna do marketing they do it the wrong way.
Seriously they should start recruiting...

hawker_gb said:
It's not funny at all.
Still,I find that Z5 camera is best on market atm.
Xperia Z5 via Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say

Barthlon said:
post like this really make me wonder about my specific device.... because i am totally with op here: the camera may be very good (the best?) in sunny/ bright conditions, but is just useless in darker situations (not just pitch black.. darker..). a camera like that can NEVER be called the best on market.. i would say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.

EQ2000 said:
They should have less NR in low contrast areas for photos as right now it is quite aggressive. Seems the area noise reduction aint so 'clever'. Previous Z phones perform much better in low contrast areas with no smudged out detail. My Z1 for example outdoes my Z5c easily in detail clarity across all contrast variables while keeping noise as low or even lower and resorts to less post-processing. I assume some can be attributed to not as wide sensor (26mm vs 23mm) and 1,2um vs 1,1um pixel size and perhaps the focus system (less electronical noise). They might heat up differently to. Will be interesting to see how the Xperia X performs since AFAIK it uses same or similar sensor as the Z5. Also seems Z5c uses more NR in superior auto vs manual mode despite same ISO.
But despite that it stands really good against competition and overall it just beats them.
Here is an example of the area noise rduction system it uses akin to BIONZ X algorithms just that it is to aggressive. Look at tree trunk and streetlight pole. High contrast area is sharp but low contrast area is smudged by the NR. The problem is it failed to detect that there are bushes infront smudging them out. This is the area NR not working as intended.
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Xeon said:
Well please accept my very subjective opinion... from first look the pic is catchy, nice, really nice colors but then the disaster...... it's certainly not a focus issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kinda hard to make out what you are reffering to but "disaster"? Z5 series applies to aggressive area based NR in low contrast areas, as for the rest the photo is quite good and natural looking. Certainly better than most S7 photos you can find of similar ISO, shutter speed and scenery type. Atleast the NR can be countered partially with texture detail and clarity filters to bring out contrast in smudged areas. S7 you cant do nothing to repair photos as they are beyond reparation.
Click on images to view them in Flickr default display size. Atrocious and beyond reparation. The Z5 IQ despite smudgy NR in low contrast areas is head and shoulders above the S7 IQ. Z5 looks to the DSLR side while S7 looks to the cheap old digital camera side.
S7. Atrocious, the borderline bad CRT chromatic aberration look. Like relief filter applied shifting pixels due to horrible post-processing and subpar sensor.
Z5. The area based NR problem is clearly visible yet it looks much more natural and better despite being taken in much worse lighting conditions as evident by shutter speed and postition of sun and shadows.
As for the highlights you made that is pretty much what I already noted though the left side is from lens problem, that unit has decentered lenses thus blurred sides, right and/or left. You can see that in S7 to depeding on unit. Such a unit should be replaced. And all cameras have to do some detail extraction in low contrast areas (shadowed/non directly lit areas) and thus wont be as detailed as lit areas.
Take a look at S7 photo with shadowed areas, see? Noisy, smudgy with blotches and horrible even though ISO is low. Atleast the Z5 smoothes it out mostly OK. (left and right side)
One more time! You see? (right side trees and bushes)
You still cant see it!? Well some more then!
To the right!
To the left!
To the left!
And all around! :laugh:

Pixel Camera seems dissapointing.

I really want this phone. I have the S7 edge and was waiting for this for daydream mostly. The problem is that i don't like the specs.
These are the shortcomings i've seen.
5" inch version has only 1080.
XL version only has 3440mah batter vs s7 3600
10 grams heavier than S7
Camera sensor seems bad.
The camera got a great review from a site most of us haven't heard much about before but they are sure popular today. DXOmark got alot of traffic after google announced they gave it a high score. I've read the review thoroughly and feel it was tipped in Google's favor by choice. The S7's best strength is the 1.7sensor and the Dual phase focus. Both are weaknesses of pixel, but the overall scores don't reflect it. For autofocus for example, they state that the pixel couldn't focus consistently yet gave it a score of 93. I made the mistake of taking a tilted review before (LG G3 camera) only to find issues later.
So does anyone really think the f2.0 camera on the pixel really is the best out there?

Compared to the S7, I am truly afraid the Pixel camera will disappoint you. My wife's S7 shoots the most amazing photos I've seen from a cell phone. I tried comparing them to my Nexus 6P and even my iPhone 7 and the S7 pictures are just so freaking crisp with perfectly accurate colors.
I don't think you can reasonably expect the Pixel's camera to compete with the S7. Especially without OIS.

5" inch version has only 1080 - This is 441 PPI compared to 336 of iPhone 7. This Also means less processing needed to move the pixels around.
XL version only has 3440mah batter vs s7 3600 - This is a 5% difference. It is also running an under clocked 821 that should be pretty efficient. Also sounds like Google has done a lot of optimization.
10 grams heavier than S7 - 5% I don't think that is very significant.
Camera sensor seems bad. - What? Where do you get this from? It sounds like at a minimum it take 6p quality photos but much faster.

orateam said:
I really want this phone. I have the S7 edge and was waiting for this for daydream mostly. The problem is that i don't like the specs.
These are the shortcomings i've seen.
5" inch version has only 1080.
XL version only has 3440mah batter vs s7 3600
10 grams heavier than S7
Camera sensor seems bad.
The camera got a great review from a site most of us haven't heard much about before but they are sure popular today. DXOmark got alot of traffic after google announced they gave it a high score. I've read the review thoroughly and feel it was tipped in Google's favor by choice. The S7's best strength is the 1.7sensor and the Dual phase focus. Both are weaknesses of pixel, but the overall scores don't reflect it. For autofocus for example, they state that the pixel couldn't focus consistently yet gave it a score of 93. I made the mistake of taking a tilted review before (LG G3 camera) only to find issues later.
So does anyone really think the f2.0 camera on the pixel really is the best out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DXOmark is an extremely well known camera review site. They've only started reviewing phone cameras in the past 5 years or so, but they are definitely legit.

DXO is the gold standard.

The DxO review is pretty fair at calling the Pixel out in areas for improvement. The overall score is high, but that doesn't mean it's better than other cameras in EVERY aspect. It just means that all things considered they like the Pixel the best.
Something else to consider is that the camera hardware specs are just part of it. Many people at the event commented on/praised the software improvements (improved HDR+, no shutter lag, video EIS using gyroscope). I'm anxious to see a more in-depth review and I'm hopeful that it's as good as they say.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

orateam said:
Camera sensor seems bad.
The camera got a great review from a site most of us haven't heard much about before but they are sure popular today. DXOmark got alot of traffic after google announced they gave it a high score. I've read the review thoroughly and feel it was tipped in Google's favor by choice. The S7's best strength is the 1.7sensor and the Dual phase focus. Both are weaknesses of pixel, but the overall scores don't reflect it. For autofocus for example, they state that the pixel couldn't focus consistently yet gave it a score of 93. I made the mistake of taking a tilted review before (LG G3 camera) only to find issues later.
So does anyone really think the f2.0 camera on the pixel really is the best out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to learn a little more about camera hardware dude. The sensor seems bad? You are wrong.
It is using a 1/2.3" size sensor. A sensor that size is something that some DEDICATED point and shoot cameras use. It is one of the largest sensors in a smartphone available. The 2016 Samsung phones are using a 1/2.5" sensor, which is inferior comparatively. The Pixels will have larger pixels (heh) to take in more light, resulting in better detail capture and low light photography. This combined with HDR+ (the newest iteration which is really yet to be seen) is going to be incredible.
HDR+ captures RAW images and uses software processing to combine the best of these images into a single JPEG. What does this mean for you? It means incredible dynamic range, the likes of which no other smartphone can compete. Why? Because HDR+ is EXCLUSIVE to Google. Nobody can process HDR as well as them in 99% of cases. I even did a comparison of my 6P against a $1,000 Sony RX100 IV (top of the line point and shoot camera). The 6P had better exposure and far better dynamic range in the vast majority of photos, straight out of the camera. Obviously the RX100 is much more capable and can certainly take better photos, but from a point and shoot perspective, the 6P was superior in terms exposure and dynamic range except in extreme low light. It blew my mind, pissed me off, and made me return that camera because I realized for my purposes, a smartphone camera is all I really need.
The Samsung phones having f/1.7 over f/2.0 is an advantage in some ways, yes, but not an outright advantage. It results in better bokeh (depth of field) effects, but also a more narrow focus range. If you want a lot of stuff in the frame in focus, especially if it's a close-up shot, you're not going to have a good time with Samsung's camera. With f/1.7 there are times you can't even get full focus on an entire object up close, because the focus range is so narrow. It also means the lens itself allows more light in, which can result in a better nighttime photo. But look up some night comparisons of 2016 flagships (including Samsung) vs the 6P. Here is one: http://www.androidheadlines.com/201...galaxy-s7-vs-htc-10-vs-lg-g5-vs-nexus-6p.html
Despite the 6P having f/2.0, it had better night photos in most cases. How? Because of its larger sensor. But wait - the HTC 10 has the same sensor, AND f/1.8 - how did it beat the HTC 10 in most cases? Because of HDR+. I will say it again - no other company beats Google's HDR+ processing in the vast majority of cases. It is incredible. Turn off HDR+ and you will regret it. The downside of using it on the 6P is processing time and shutter lag. That is no longer a problem with the Pixels. Leave it on all the time.
The only advantage I see Samsung truly having is autofocus. The dual pixel AF system is ABSURDLY fast and accurate. Also DxOMark is a very reliable and thorough source...
sn0warmy said:
Compared to the S7, I am truly afraid the Pixel camera will disappoint you. My wife's S7 shoots the most amazing photos I've seen from a cell phone. I tried comparing them to my Nexus 6P and even my iPhone 7 and the S7 pictures are just so freaking crisp with perfectly accurate colors.
I don't think you can reasonably expect the Pixel's camera to compete with the S7. Especially without OIS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just not true. The Pixel camera will absolutely not disappoint. Samsung also does not have anything close to perfectly accurate colors. Samsung has been known to oversaturate, which can look better to most peoples eyes, but it is not going to be always accurate to the scene. I'm not saying Samsung hasn't been destroying the camera competition this year, because they absolutely have been... but to down talk the Pixels already is shortsighted and unfair. The lack of OIS a letdown. It means you will need to try to be as steady as possible when taking photos, especially at night. I think they either did this to avoid the camera bump (which would be a terrible reason to omit OIS), or because their software EIS is so gyroscope dependent that OIS would inhibit its effectiveness... but the V20 uses EIS and OIS quite well, so I sort of doubt this. Google could be using their own, different EIS method though, so we'll have to wait and see just how good it is. I don't think EIS will apply to photos, but it could - Sony does it with their Xperia cameras.

Nitemare3219 said:
*Lots of informative information.*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post. Admittedly, I do tend to like the look of the photos my wife's S7 takes, but I don't doubt what you've said is true.
Personally, I'm still excited for the Pixel's camera. S0 much so that I returned my iPhone 7, which I mainly bought for the camera, to purchase the Pixel. The iPhone definitely took some amazing photos this past weekend. I wish I would have had both phones to do a direct comparison.
Here are samples taken with the iPhone 7. If the Pixel camera can take similar/better photos I'll be extremely happy.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
When the Pixel arrives I'll get up to the same area and try to get some photos with similar lighting to see how it fairs, in comparison.

@sn0warmy
Well I'm pretty sure the 5X takes photos as good as these ones. So there's no reason the Pixel wouldn't take same or better quality photos.
I'll upload some I took here

thesebastian said:
@sn0warmy
Well I'm pretty sure the 5X takes photos as good as these ones. So there's no reason the Pixel wouldn't take same or better quality photos.
I'll upload some I took here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at the pictures closer, compared to how they look in Apple Photos, Flickr really managed to degrade the quality quite a bit.
Is there a better host site you use that maintains the high quality?

sn0warmy said:
Looking at the pictures closer, compared to how they look in Apple Photos, Flickr really managed to degrade the quality quite a bit.
Is there a better host site you use that maintains the high quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use imgur. But I think it also reduces the quality a bit.
Anyway....I took these ones with the 5X (and Nexus 5 2013 camera wasn't bad compared to the one in 5X/6P. So since the N5 2013, Google is keeping the good quality)
http://imgur.com/a/TwJwd

thesebastian said:
I use imgur. But I think it also reduces the quality a bit.
Anyway....I took these ones with the 5X (and Nexus 5 2013 camera wasn't bad compared to the one in 5X/6P. So since the N5 2013, Google is keeping the good quality)
http://imgur.com/a/TwJwd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once we all have our pixels, we can just use Google Photos for all our photos.

orateam said:
I really want this phone. I have the S7 edge and was waiting for this for daydream mostly. The problem is that i don't like the specs.
These are the shortcomings i've seen.
5" inch version has only 1080.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not a shortcoming, that's an ADVANTAGE. Less pixels = higher performance.
XL version only has 3440mah batter vs s7 3600
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're going to whine about 160 mAh? Also, the s7 has the SD820, which will consume more power than a like-clocked SD821 (like the pixel), so you'll gain that back.
10 grams heavier than S7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Roughly a single grain of sand.
Camera sensor seems bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, its a PHONE, not a camera. ALL phone cameras suck. Just be happy that it apparently loads and shoots FAST.
If you want a good camera, get a good DSLR.

craig0r said:
Once we all have our pixels, we can just use Google Photos for all our photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I still gonna wait a few months to the price drop. (I don't want to pay more than 550€ for a Pixel so maybe I'll have to wait to next year).
However, I don't know if I really like to have all my photos in "Google Photos".
What I'm doing now is, every-time I reach 3-8GB of Photos+Videos I move all the photos to my PC to a folder where I have all my photos. And that folder is shared with Google Photos Windows app (using the free quality option).
So I only use Google Photos to be able to search all my photos and have them anywhere. But I'm not using google photos to actually "save" my photos. To do that I use my PC's drive + an external backup drive.
If you pass your all the photos to Google Photos (using the unlimited option) and you use the "Delete from device" option when you need space. How do you move all your Google Photos' photos to a folder in Windows to make a backup?

thesebastian said:
What I'm doing now is, every-time I reach 3-8GB of Photos+Videos I move all the photos to my PC to a folder where I have all my photos. And that folder is shared with Google Photos Windows app (using the free quality option).
So I only use Google Photos to be able to search all my photos and have them anywhere. But I'm not using google photos to actually "save" my photos. To do that I use my PC's drive + an external backup drive.
If you pass your all the photos to Google Photos (using the unlimited option) and you use the "Delete from device" option when you need space. How do you move all your Google Photos' photos to a folder in Windows to make a backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the Google Photos app for Windows not allow you to pull the pics down from the cloud? (I'm not being rhetorical, I actually don't know, I've never used it.)

craig0r said:
Does the Google Photos app for Windows not allow you to pull the pics down from the cloud? (I'm not being rhetorical, I actually don't know, I've never used it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think its just a tool to upload photos. I only use it when I want to resync all my photos.
Sent from my Nexus 5X

doitright said:
That's not a shortcoming, that's an ADVANTAGE. Less pixels = higher performance.
Well, its a PHONE, not a camera. ALL phone cameras suck. Just be happy that it apparently loads and shoots FAST.
If you want a good camera, get a good DSLR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Higher performance is not really noticeable in day to day use... or even gaming with the latest Adreno. More like battery life. But the Pixels are going to be using pentile AMOLED displays, so 1080p is kind of an issue, ESPECIALLY for VR. 1080p AMOLED with pentile is nowhere near the visual sharpness of a 1080p OLED with true RGB pixel arrangement. People seem to ignore this fact.
Also, phone cameras have come a hell of a long way. They're good enough for the vast majority of people, and can take some damn good photos in the right hands.

thesebastian said:
I think its just a tool to upload photos. I only use it when I want to resync all my photos.
Sent from my Nexus 5X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just checked http://photos.google.com and it's real easy to do a bulk download. You can shift-select items in the web interface, go to the menu and click "Download" and you get a zip file.

from the Camera specs looks they double dipped on the IMX 377. If that's the case you will get pictures on par with the Nexus 6P with minor improvements. The camera will no doubt be solid just not a major improvement over the previous generation.

orateam said:
I really want this phone. I have the S7 edge and was waiting for this for daydream mostly. The problem is that i don't like the specs.
These are the shortcomings i've seen.
5" inch version has only 1080.
XL version only has 3440mah batter vs s7 3600
10 grams heavier than S7
Camera sensor seems bad.
The camera got a great review from a site most of us haven't heard much about before but they are sure popular today. DXOmark got alot of traffic after google announced they gave it a high score. I've read the review thoroughly and feel it was tipped in Google's favor by choice. The S7's best strength is the 1.7sensor and the Dual phase focus. Both are weaknesses of pixel, but the overall scores don't reflect it. For autofocus for example, they state that the pixel couldn't focus consistently yet gave it a score of 93. I made the mistake of taking a tilted review before (LG G3 camera) only to find issues later.
So does anyone really think the f2.0 camera on the pixel really is the best out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow.
DxO is a well respected site that tests camera equipment, typically DSLR's and mirrorless cameras and lenses. They take a very scientific approach to rating gear. It's been a few years since they started rating smartphones as well, and is one of the leading resources in rating smartphone camera performance.
The Pixel's camera sensor at 1/2.3" is larger than just about all other smartphones out there. For comparison, the Galaxy S7, S7 Edge and Note 7 use a 1/2.5" sensor, and the iPhone uses a 1/3" sensor. Just to be clear, the smaller the bottom number, the better.
Although the Pixel does have a smaller aperture at f/2.0, the larger sensor factors into the equation.