Related
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
kcrudup said:
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your point for posting this?
tech support blows and people are stupid
znfrazier said:
your point for posting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
kcrudup said:
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No se. i thought you had a question lol and i read through it like 3 times.. my b :O
>But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience
I think it's more about the mainstreaming of mobile devices. Smartphones will always be hampered by the monthly carrier fees, even as they become more popular. Tabs will be mostly wifi (no fees), and their larger size are more versatile, and thus more appealing.
>IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing.
In the short run, I disagree. Honeycomb is still beta status, and this first crop of Android tabs are premium-priced. In both price/performance and user-experience, the lackluster Android effort only justifies the iPad's frontrunner status.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. Android's quasi-open-source, multi-vendor approach means more competition, which means lower prices. There is already price competition for this first crop; Moto was forced to drop pricing (nominally) even before the Xoom was available for some region.
Lower pricing will be key to any new platform adoption, fragmentation be damned. Use MS Windows as a gauge. In the near future, you will walk into a retail outlet and see the iPad 2 for $500, and a similar Android tab for $300. The Android may be less polished, but it isn't as limited as the Apple toy. More importantly, it's a $200 difference.
How "near" is near? I'd say next year. The mentioned price delta is likely to be achieved this year, but the UX and app repertoire still aren't a sufficient value proposition for Android tabs. It'll take a year.
For the Xoom specifically, there isn't a need to apologize for it per the topic header. How well the Xoom sells is irrelevant to a Xoom owner, since he already bought it. Its hardware is similar enough to others of the Teg2 crop that there'll be 3rd-party support, regardless of official Moto support. To wit: somebody has already used Asus' source to develop SD-slot support for the Xoom.
Buying is an emotional process, and people have a need to justify their choice in the presence of peers, eg buying a Xoom is "good." Rationally speaking, it's irrelevant. You buy something because you want or need it, and you can afford it. That's it. It doesn't matter what others buy or don't buy. Have self-confidence.
When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy." I was getting one as soon as I'd gotten the specs on it, no matter if there were only 5K sold.
(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
>When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy."
I disagree on that. Moto's premium strategy is ill-advised, since its exclusivity isn't long enough, and its hardware isn't differentiated enough. The rumored sales numbers is a good indication.
This isn't to say that the Xoom is over-priced. While the 3G model has a hefty premium attached, the wifi model is competitive at $600 for 32GB. Moto's mistake is in not leading with the 16GB SKU at the iPad-decreed $500 price point. Hence its "more expensive yet does less" tag.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree)
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
e.mote said:
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, not quite. I was here at the office bored working on some other stuff, when I decided to take another look at the board files in our own source 'cause I'd remembered one of the other platforms had more SDHCI channels defined. I figured out what to do about 3 hrs later, and sent BigRushDog and CoolBHO3K a PM telling 'em what I'd had, and it turns out they too had been working on it simultaneously, using the Asus kernel sources as a guide (which I still haven't seen yet, gotta download it in case there's other stuff in there we can use).
Since BRD/CBHO3K have already put kernels out there, I just sent them the GitHub commits I'd done and told them to pick and choose what they'd want to use (IIRC, the mounting stuff in the init scripts).
I'm still running my own stuff too (mostly 'cause our kernels have diverged a bit as I've pulled in more upstream changes, as least as of Sunday).
But hey, SD-Card works now!
A thumb's-up for the effort, and in sharing it with the community.
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
e.mote said:
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, you just don't know- I'd sell my firstborn* for the real NVidia Tegra 2 chipset programming manual, and/or the full schematic for the Xoom!
* - as I don't have any kids yet, unless your name is "Rumplestiltskin" I ain't got nothin' to worry about
No love from the Nvidia developer PR rep? OK, clue me in. What does it take to get the Teg250 tech ref? Or do people use OpenMax for Android?
kcrudup said:
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, you have the reverse- i.e., where the "Average Joe" in the Motorola forums is now all over the Moto forums *****ing and moaning endlessly "to Motorola" (they really do believe that forum is special 'cause it's hosted on Moto's site) over lack of SD-Card and LTE upgrade (the latter doesn't exist only 'cause of parts shortages, but the non-tech crowd over there has misinterpreted Jha's "LTE incompatibility" statement and run with it).
It's utterly unreadable over there now, and of course you've got your Wingnut Contingent bleating on about "class action lawsuits" and of course the whole "Never buying Moto again" crowd.
First off, keep in mind I'm not trying to start a fight. I really don't know the answers.
Given that Honeycomb is never going to be open source, to me that means ROM changes by the dev community are impossible. Only Acer can make and push out those changes.
I don't consider changing an app out to be "development". To me, that's theming. While that's a fine thing, what I really want are changes to the core code to fix basic problems with the OS we've been given.
At some point in the near future I'd like to participate in making those changes.
Since HC source is never going to be available to me, that tells me that I'm going to be limited to theming the OS I've already got.
What do you know that I don't which leads you to think the dev community will be able to make substantial changes to our tablets?
Ice Cream is rumored to be scheduled for Q4 and Google has stated it will be the next open-sourced version.
Honeycomb was effectively a rush-to-market to try to allow companies like Motorola and Acer to compete with the iPad before it came too late, and is an incredible hack job.
I'm okay with that. Once someone breaks the boot-loader on the Acer some enterprising dev will get Ice Cream on it, even if Honeycomb is never released as source.
News sources: http://phandroid.com/2011/05/10/goo...mb-because-they-wanted-to-wait-for-ice-cream/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-ice-cream-sadwich-for-q4-2011-for-smartphones/
It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.
muqali said:
It's funny that Google is so embarassed of how bad they had to code Honeycomb to get it out that they won't let the public see it. It's got to be really stinky, and it explains the problems we have. I'd rather this than Apple winning the war though.
That being said, I don't want Apple out of the game either. I want it split 50/50 or so. Encourage price and development pressure on the corporations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. I completely agree. The competition keeps them on their toes.
Sent from Desire HD or Inspire 4G or whatever this thing is called via premium XDA app.
agreed , I dont think anyone wants Apple out of the game , just as kicking Microsoft to the curb is unwise! Competition makes prices go down and technology better!
I think the comparison to apple products is not really justified. These tablets are not glorified ipods (and I mean this in a good way), but they are actual intermediates from phone to laptops. I have a more efficient way of browsing, e-mail, reading, playing movies, etc that happens to have games.
I am impressed that Apple introduces well packaged and polished products to consumers, and for most consumers, these products will work well for their "needs." I agree with what another member said recently, just using the product is only half the fun. I think the reason we are on these forums and buy these products is that we enjoy the challenge that Android devices hold. They are basically the most raw form of the new tablet PC market, akin to the old IBMs and such that most of us remember using when we were younger. You know, the ones we used to open up and explore, disassemble and reassemble.
I love what the android tablet market offers: a collection of powerful hardware and the collective creativity of everyone in this dev community. I am looking forward to what kind of crazy things this community comes up with.
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
UPDATE:
I almost wish I had time for a proper reply, but I have better things to do so I'll keep it short. All the back-peddling about how you "didn't buy the Ouya gaming console for gaming but for use as an HTPC" is just too much. So you people are telling me that you spent $100 on a crippled, locked-down, HTPC without a proper remote but instead a wimpy game controller when you could have spent $100 on a Vizio-CoStar which has HDMI pass-through, IR-Blaster and a proper GTV Media remote?!
Seriously?
Out of the box, the Co-Star shows up the Ouya in EVERY way (except XBMC as of 2014-02-10 it seems) as an HTPC AND can be used for gaming. Since it comes with the Play Store (Ouya doesn't) and supports all the most common media apps, it doesn't require any hacking AND can still play your favorite games. If you take 5 minutes to root it (yes, it's rootable), then you could pair up a Sixaxis or Wii controller (both of which I have laying around as many of you likely do) an you get a better controller than what Ouya provides.
So please tell me again how you purchased the Ouya for use as an HTPC and your $100 was well spent. While you provide more silly, defensive posts attempting to do so, I'll be USING my device and not worrying about how I'll overcome the limitations of the device I invested in so that I can do some basic task like listening to music from All Access or watching Netflix
Anyone want to venture a guess at why this post is easily the 2nd most active for this forum?! *roll eyes*
UPDATE 20140115:
Still in denial guys? OUYA Founding Team Member and VP of Product Development Departs
I'm still batting 1000 when it comes to calling successes and failures. This and the stats behind it prove what I've been saying from day one; DOA because it has no value (to people with some sense anyway, there's always that 10% as we say in the Corp).
They say "OUYA is an ever changing business". I don't disagree, death and failure do represent change. The real story though:
Another side of the story is the reportedly poor performance of the OUYA in the consumer market, however. Early developer sales numbers indicate that software isn’t faring very well on the platform, and pre-holiday sales with drastic price reductions don’t bode well for buyer interest in hardware, either. A well-placed source tells TechCrunch that the decision to leave OUYA was Ghadiali’s own, not the company’s.
OUYA definitely seems to be occupying rocky waters at the moment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go ahead and tell me one more time why I'm wrong since people are still keeping this thread active in their attempts to convince themselves I'm not.
For the record, 7 months after I posted this and these forums still have only 7,624 posts. I was trying to find a cheap, unpopular phone to compare to (since pretty much anything will meet or beet the Ouya in any number of way), but nothing is close enough to even make it worth the mention.
i have to say i agree with you i always knew the idea of a android console is useless because the games are no difference than for example on a galaxy s3 or something and a phone is portable and u can also plug a phone to a tv for mirroring and put a game controller on it and your set to go
I don't really agree, I think it's a really good product, it's much cheaper than a phone and allows those with bad economy to still be able to enjoy the high end games from the android world. not to mention without the hassle of getting a gaming controller hooked up and/or video out, not all phones have it.
also the forum is not dead, there's been plenty of activity considering how many have the ouya at the time of writing we already have a CWM port. roms are in the works. we have root/superuser app guides and XBMC apk sideloading. for 99 usd it's definately worth it.
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow...I dunno about flaming, but as one of the backers I've got to disagree totally. Other than getting my Ouya a wee bit later than I would have expected, I'm quite satisfied with mine and my experience with it. I think that once it hits retail and more folks actually HAVE the device then activity on these forums will pick up. At 99 bucks it is a very afordable tinkering device.
I've no clue where you get the logic that they took advantage of or owe anything to the community. Backers paid their money and have either already received their Ouya or will shortly. Any rough edges with the software will (hopefully) mostly be smoothed out by the time the device hits actual retail. Remember those of us who have it are pretty much beta testers right now.
Heck...I like mine so much I'm kind of regretting not backing a 2nd unit or the limited edition one!
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you also are entitled to your opinion, but as one of those people who "can/would hack such a device", I've gotta say you're wrong on that particular "fact". Development is limited to a few individuals, but we're moving full steam ahead, already have CWM working thanks to mybook4 and I just minutes ago finished building my first Alpha of CM10. So before you pop in just to troll, how about you do just a little bit of poking in the development section so you know what you're talking about. I was surprised to see this post was from you, I thought a veteran like yourself would be more open minded.
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My phone is a phone, perhaps you don't get many phone calls or text messages, fortunately I do.
If I did want to use my phone as a console I would have to buy a hdmi adapter,hdmi cable and a controller. So the economic argument doesn't hold any water.
No need to flame, your logic is flawed and your research non existent.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Sounds like the same arguments I heard for why tablets will never make it... and everyone and their mother now has one... or two. Its a little early to be a negative nancy when the thing isn't even avaliable in stores yet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most valuable part of the ouya is not the hardware, although, a Tegra 3 (optimized thx to active heat-sink and 'unlimited' power), 1GB RAM, and 16GB flash with a wireless control for $100 is pretty damny competitive. If you consider the controller at $20-$25 that means the console is going for about $75.
No, the real value in Ouya is the work their team has done to pull together Indie gaming developers into a Steam-esque group targeting a fairly consistent hardware platform on a fairly fragmented OS that is android. By getting gaming companies and others to sign up with Ouya, there is an arguably simpler way to get games published, advertised, and consumed for android.
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a high end laptop and pc. I have a Galaxy note 2. My girlfriend owns a S3.
My ouya arrived yesterday, and i have to say i am loving it so much. To what you said.. i can't really agree with you.
I am not saying this to justify the product but for the prize tag i found my money well well spend.. its just like professorpoptart said.
Its almost the same argument
At that price it would make a neat little media centre in my opinion, if not for the fact my main pc is connected to the tv already.
rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? at least give them a chance. Kickstarters are finally starting to recieve there's. At least wait till it goes on retail to down the product. Personally I just got mine for xbmc and emulators and im quite pleased with it sure it has its issues but with the openness of it at least you wont be at the mercy of company to fix things like another device I bought awhile ago (boxee box)
professorpoptart said:
Sounds like the same arguments I heard for why tablets will never make it... and everyone and their mother now has one... or two. Its a little early to be a negative nancy when the thing isn't even avaliable in stores yet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?
trogdan said:
The most valuable part of the ouya is not the hardware, although, a Tegra 3 (optimized thx to active heat-sink and 'unlimited' power), 1GB RAM, and 16GB flash with a wireless control for $100 is pretty damny competitive. If you consider the controller at $20-$25 that means the console is going for about $75.
No, the real value in Ouya is the work their team has done to pull together Indie gaming developers into a Steam-esque group targeting a fairly consistent hardware platform on a fairly fragmented OS that is android. By getting gaming companies and others to sign up with Ouya, there is an arguably simpler way to get games published, advertised, and consumed for android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so let's say you're right. They're likely able to sell the hardware that cheap because they're getting it practically free (it's already basically obsolete hardware which is half my point). Why buy another device, that's already obsolete, to play games I could play on my newer, better devices?
I can think of one reason; because Ouya's game library won't be available for regular Android devices and if that's true, then I might as well buy a real console that's magnitudes more powerful OR just play games on the web (since WebGL + my PC, tablet, or phone is already more powerful than the Ouya).
On the other hand, if they do share the games, I'm back to my first point; why buy obsolete hardware to play on when I can use hardware I already have, that's more powerful?
As for your disagreement; of course you disagree. As you said, you're a backer and the reality is that unless you're part of a very small minority of people on this planet, you now have to contend with cognitive dissonance and all my logic and rational arguments mean nothing in light of that
On that note, I'm going to sit back and watch everyone try to convince themselves of how wrong I am and see if anything interesting comes of that conversation.
tennisbgc said:
Really? at least give them a chance. Kickstarters are finally starting to recieve there's. At least wait till it goes on retail to down the product. Personally I just got mine for xbmc and emulators and im quite pleased with it sure it has its issues but with the openness of it at least you wont be at the mercy of company to fix things like another device I bought awhile ago (boxee box)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For use as an "Open Google TV-type" hardware platform, I would be interested but my Vizio Co-Star does such a good job now (for $100) but instead of focusing on a GPU and controller (which I already have thanks to my PS3 Six-axis controllers laying around), it focused on the remote which is phenominal. I'd love to see that platform opened up, even with it's weaker specs (by the way, 1GB of ram for an "Android gaming console" is laughable when it's meant to serve 1080p gaming).
My original point stands. The Ouya, as a gaming platform, is little more than a scam or pet-project and the latter is fine by me so long as they're honest about it.
rainabba said:
For use as an "Open Google TV-type" hardware platform, I would be interested but my Vizio Co-Star does such a good job now (for $100) but instead of focusing on a GPU and controller (which I already have thanks to my PS3 Six-axis controllers laying around), it focused on the remote which is phenominal. I'd love to see that platform opened up, even with it's weaker specs (by the way, 1GB of ram for an "Android gaming console" is laughable when it's meant to serve 1080p gaming).
My original point stands. The Ouya, as a gaming platform, is little more than a scam or pet-project and the latter is fine by me so long as they're honest about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was looking into that player but the lacking of local media made me go this direction.
rainabba said:
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people I know either own a iPad or Kindle. I have a galaxy tab 2 which is most definitely not more powerful than an Ouya. There are only a handful of tablets that are more powerful than the OUYA and they are not mainstream devices.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
tennisbgc said:
I was looking into that player but the lacking of local media made me go this direction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic but if I understand you correctly, it sounds like you may not realize but would want to know that the Vizio co star has mass storage support through USB.
Once it's fully working I expect this will become a pretty good little media box, but outside just netflix etc, it is also a great little emulation device, may have a couple fun games, etc. As an open platform it may end up much better then any roku, Apple TV, or other box. Is it a perfect device? No, but until it's actual release I'm no where near calling it worthless.
rainabba said:
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you could show me to a few tablets that are more powerful then the ouya at a reasonable prize ($100-$150)
Then please show me.. i would love one
thinkgreenn said:
If you could show me to a few tablets that are more powerful then the ouya at a reasonable prize ($100-$150)
Then please show me.. i would love one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that also has the hdmi out he's talking about. not many do, and if they do they're in the 400-600 usd pricerange as far as I've seen. unless they're some cheap china thing. in which case they are far from high end and it would look much more clunky having a hacked up setup with a tablet dangling around the TV. the ouya is a much more cleaner solution fit for the task. and it's cheap
There is a project to build a dual-boot version of Android (currently in Kickstarter) which is planned to be release on all the major Windows Tablets. It look interesting, i just wish they had a working beta.
Looking at the video its just Android X86 and a demo/benchmark running on the back.
Typical KS vaporware, and the guy plans to charge you every year to use what's basically a repackaged OS made by the community.
Totally not a scam...
Yeah, making a free OS into a dual-boot paid OS is a non-starter, excuse the pun. The KS video pitch took about 30secs to trigger my BS meter. It's the downside of KS; easy money from the gullible will always attract sharks.
Liliputing has a piece on some Chinese tab vendors offering drop-in Win8.1 FW for Android tabs,
http://liliputing.com/2014/06/chine...ing-windows-8-1-firmware-android-tablets.html
It's not yet dual-boot, but it's probably a precursor, given now that x86 Win8.1 and Android can run on the same hardware base. Kudos to Intel.
The surprising thing about the offer is the link to download Win8.1. As noted in the piece's comments, I'm wondering how the licensing is handled. Despite the fact that 8.1 is now free for small tabs, 8.1u1's licensing scheme still hasn't changed AFAIK. I doubt that the tab in question has an OEM key, so it's probably unlicensed, and needs "creative" means to activate. Regardless, it's a positive step for platform interoperability.
I'm waiting to see what this year's crop of And/Win mini-tabs will be like. Am hoping for improved connectivity (read: more ports), but looks like the improvement will be in price, with median starting price from $150-200, or $100 less than last year. That's a pretty huge drop. Am holding out for at least a dedicated charging port, to free up the USB.
Yeah, consider the irony of Microsoft cutting Win8 licenses to just $15 and making it free for tabs smaller than 9" while this guy pretends to charge you $10 not once but EVERY YEAR for something you can download and install for free right now.
What I don't understand is why the community and the press aren't denouncing this guy, the way things are going he's probably going to reach his goal
OS
Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
100% True
I agree with you.. I used one chines tablet which is dual boot; truth i hate the performance and switching..
Yesterday Mr. Gary guided me to install the Android 4.2.2 on my Windows, which is running very decent.. I love the performance till now.. Its working above VM and size around 300MB which is very most important for me.. He said adb, debugging they are working it will be added soon.. looking forward..
I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
e.mote said:
>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
Hahah, thanks for the chuckle.
I agree with everything you said e.mote
e.mote said:
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
......except this.
You see, most people aren't what you call reasonable, they wont admit they were duped and instead will lash out at any real attempts to bring android to the desktop, which is a shame since google seems increasingly less likely to do it and developer support for linux distros is at the same level that it always was, low.
TBH its very ironic this is happening right after kickstarter lowered its entry requirements to an all time low.
Hi All, its my first post on XDA, and i must disagree with above comments.
10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome. And this guy looks legit. Its good offer for noobies like me. You can disagree, but that's my personal opinion.
check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console
>10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome
For a con, small amount (and large numbers of marks) is best. People won't bother with due diligence for a paltry few bucks, and once it's sprung, they can brush off the loss and not come after you. Manipulate risk-reward ratio to have high upside and low downside, and you will always net suckers looking for "awesome" deals. Promise them many too-good-to-be-true features, throw in important-sounding buzzwords and jargons, but don't get pinned down on details like the what, how and when. Third, add urgency: buy now to lock in that special deal (free lifetime upgrades).
I'm not saying it's a con, but all the trademark signatures are there.
Here's an exercise in probability for you: Do some reading on hypervisor, and find out how many consumer-level hypervisors are out there (answer: zero). Now, figure on the likelihood of this happening on a 2GB RAM, 32GB flash device--actually, any x86 device--with install as simple as booting from a USB stick, and from a startup with no known tech pedigree and a CEO whose best claim to fame is that he founded a phone blog.
So why not wait until it's shipped, supposedly by year-end? But that means I'll miss out on that "awesome" free lifetime upgrade! Heck, it's only $10. I'll pay it and take my chances.
>check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console
Check further to find its specs, or evidence of it actually shipping (reported shipping date was Sep 2013). Where's the online support forum? Is it a secret? Please, do tell!
While I agree that this looks like a scam, I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor. That sounds like a very careful attempt to create class that sounds like it should have something in it but doesn't. Is Client Hyper-V not "consumer-level" because it's only in the higher Win8 editions? Is the PS3 hypervisor not "consumer-level" because it's buried in the console and not (supposed to be) tweakable by the user? Is Xen not "consumer-level" because it's on Linux?
Seriously, of all the things that smell wrong with this idea, the hypervisor is the least of my concerns by a large margin. There's no problem with the idea of using a hypervisor here. I'm sure the PS3 isn't the only game console to use one, for example.
>I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor
A better choice of words would be standalone hypervisor, or perhaps (noob) user-installable hypervisor. The examples you mentioned are either baked into the product/OS, or are highly technical undertakings that are outside the realm of normal users, let alone being installable "on a bootable USB stick." I'm not into the console-mod scene, but I doubt there is a thriving PS3 mod community to run alternative OS'es.
Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.
Well I am simply a baker of this thing and was looking for some community comment on it. I have some time to cancel my 10$ input if this turn up to be a scam. I'm from Poland and it's not so small amount of money here. Do not judge people like that MGREX. Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
Wysłane z mojego Nexus 4 przy użyciu Tapatalka
>Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
You don't need "reliable input," just exercise some common sense and ask the questions. Do some actual thinking yourself, rather than just rely on others to do it for you.
The supposed startup Multi-Media Ventures (MMV) has a track record to follow. It prominently claimed to have shipped its iConsole.tv ("the most powerful Android console") last year, then look for evidence. Where are iConsole.tv's support forums, developer chatter, downloads (patches / code samples / drivers / documentation / etc), hardware specs? There is nothing on the iConsole.tv site or from a Google search.
The hardware is vaguely said to have a "fourth-generation Core processor with Iris graphics," but won't specify the exact CPU. There isn't even a picture of the shipping unit. On ConsoleOS's KS page, MMV claimed that the hardware is "out of stock," but on the iConsole.tv page, no OOS is mentioned, and it is only too willing to take your $699 (it took me straight to Paypal).
There are other red flags that scream SCAM! for those who bother to dig into MMV and C. Price's history. From Price's linkedin profile, he doesn't have any programming/engineering background. Nowhere on the ConsoleOS page is there any mention of his team, let alone their tech background. The entire site is basically one big sales pitch, with no substance.
Being mentioned on a popular blog is not proof of anything. Blogs don't have the manpower or the investigative expertise to verify in-depth. Most won't even do cursory fact-checking. Their overriding want is content to fill the space and keep the page hits coming. They need massive quantity of content everyday, and perforce quality takes a back seat.
That said, if you want further veracity and can't/won't do it yourself, you can get help from a blog (or blogs). Contact a blogger from a reputable blog, explain your case, along with red flags found in MMV's spiel, and ask if s/he can look further into it. Unmasking a scam would be a pretty good scoop, and as long as it doesn't take too much effort, the blogger will likely accommodate. Suggest Ars Technica, The Verge, and/or Engadget.
ConsoleOS is supposedly pretty far along, with claims of having reached "Developer Release 1" on 25 target platforms. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a PoC video from C. Price, do you? Would be nice to see boot-up from one of those said devices, and some of those fancy buzzword features like InstaSwitch and WindowsFlinger in action, no?
Cons work on people's greed for "good deals" and laziness to fact-check, both of which are under your control. Exercise your responsibility.
There *was* actually a pretty big homebrew scene around the PS3 hypervisor (did you miss the whole "OtherOS" fiasco where Sony initially sold it with the ability to run Linux via the hypervisor, then tried to block that feature, then some enterprising hackers added it back and in the process broke the console's security wide open? I don't even have any Sony stuff but it was all over the news I was following ~3 years ago, though admittedly I follow a lot of security news). I haven't heard much about it recently, but the ability to install an run your own Linux system on the console was considered a real plus to some people (hard to get a Cell processor to play with, otherwise).
With that said, while I still don't buy the argument about the technical difficulty of using a hypervisor (seriously, not that hard; hard to write one from scratch, yes, hard to employ an existing one, no), the rest of your comments seems likely spot-on. This is a cool idea and seems like it should be possible (all the best scams are...) but I'm very skeptical that it's actually happening.
I am in the same boat as mcksz. I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed). The idea of Dual boot is very valid. I have tried multiple emulators and have quickly come to the conclusion that dual boot is the only solution for moderately powered Baytrail based 2-in-1. For me "Windows for work and Android for Play" is a very powerful solution.
@MGREX, by Chris Roberts, you mean Christoper Price? if so, he is still very much active on the the Android-x86 forum. Although, he is taking a beating in the Android-x86 forum from some of the skeptics
From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it. Now it appears that they are pivoting to delivering ConsoleOS for the desktop and will try to convince the OEMs to ship dual boot solution. I am skeptical of the overall business plan as well... as both Google and Microsoft have shown no interest in a dual boot solution.
Thanks
Rockmeister
MGREX said:
Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.
e.mote
I understand that we are poles apart on this issue. But isn't *all* kickstarter campaign based on certain amount of faith? Hence it comes to whether you have faith in MMV/Christoper Price (or not) in their ability to deliver on the 25 devices for the $50,000 pledge. I am willing to believe that the they would make good on their promise and also provide patches back to AOSP code base.
You think of it as an investment/securities fraud... but believe me, there are others that look at it as an supporting a campaign to get more android devices on the Intel platform of their choice and see it as a win-win. Categorizing other view points as "naive,gullible,lazy and simpletons" does not make you smart.
Currently they are nearing 43K and assuming that they reach their goal, we can revisit this thread in 63 days! Until then I will refrain from responding to this thread.
Peace!!!
Rockmeister
e.mote said:
>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate to ask this, but it seems the N9 community leaves a lot to be desired on XDA. There seems to be very little development and conversation.
For instance, the 5.0.1 update just came out and there is very little conversation on something that will likely fix a few of the bugs we see on our N9.
I certainly appreciate the developers, experts and general enthusiasts that do take part. Is there another site with more activity?
I believe there are so far very few owners.
This is a new product, things will pick up.
There are people complaining about light bleeding and battery life.
I can say I feel the same way. Wondering why there is so little going on around here.
I got my N5 day one and don't remember that board being this quiet/slow.
Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
Gormsen said:
Count me in on that too. This is definently the most quite I've experienced in a forum, guessing that some of my old communities still are more active than this. I thougt people would be flocking to the N9, but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. It's slower than I expected and disappointing. I hope that once the major roms get their kinks worked out and developers get more comfortable with the 64 bit architecture that there will be more development.
Gormsen said:
but I guess the mixed reviews put them off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.
cor_mann said:
It's really unfortunate. I won't excuse the various hardware issues, but I actually look forward to the opportunity to improve the software of my N9 using ROMs and kernels. That's why I love android and come to XDA.
I can't help but feeling that the N9 review and subsequent comparison with the iPad over at that android-enthusiast site (not sure whether I'm allowed to say the name, but I think many of you know which site I'm referring to) directly impacted the popularity of this device within the android community. I expect mainstream sites to bash Nexus devices and make endless comparisons to Apple products, but it hit pretty hard coming from an Android site. When a site devoted to all things Android basically tells readers to buy an iPad instead, the community is bound to lose interest.
At the risk of assigning too much credit to that review, I'm becoming convinced that it has set off some sort of "change" in the Android community. More and more, I'm seeing individuals that were likely Android-enthusiasts like myself write off the N9 and Lollipop because of that review. It's like they forgot why they loved Android to begin with. We have what may be the first device with a processor and GPU as powerful or more powerful than the latest iPad, and no one wants to touch it. Just look at the Batterylife thread: all you see is rampant comparisons to the iPad. Why is it suddenly so important that an Android device's battery life match an Apple device's? Why not compare its battery life to other Android tablets? Why is the decision regarding which tablet to purchase suddenly only between the N9 and an iPad? What about all the other Android tablets? It's like they don't exist. (And I don't buy that it's the aspect ratio. This obsession with the aspect ratio has set off a false narrative that the N9 is the only true Android alternative to the iPad - as if Samsung and Sony wouldn't rather folks buy their tablets instead of Apple's). This situation is par for the course within the mainstream tech community, but not normally at Android enthusiast sites and XDA.
Anyway...sorry...just had to rant for a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.
ram130 said:
Who cares if it's more powerful than an iPad when apps aren't there to fully use it. Sure. In time. Same story. I'm a experienced Android user. Who just got an iPad to test things out. Color me surprised. The sites weren't bashing the N9 to just bash it. They were talking truth. Whether that hurts you or not, it's mostly facts from my experience of going through 3 replacements. Battery life doesn't compare to my Nexus 7. It's more comparable to a phone battery life. Only a fool with no choice would accept that. I WANT to love it. Just like what MKBHD said. Maybe some issues will get worked out. Many are returning it too. Devs. Well. They're in a mix bag and trail of thought now. But it's not worth the high price anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.
It took awhile for the 2013 N7 to get ANY development, and even longer for the N10. There just isn't a huge market for Android tablets.
cor_mann said:
Who's "truth" were they talking? Certainly not mine. I have very few of the issues mentioned in the reviews - not that all of the reviews bashed it. I fully acknowledge that it may be your "truth" (and even the reviewers'), but it does not necessarily represent everyone's. I never generalized my experience to the point that it represents anyone's other than my own - nor should you. I understand your frustration, but I don't share it. I may be a "fool", but I guess ignorance is bliss in this case.
To answer your question: I care that it's powerful. Android devices have always been a step behind in this department. I was pretty excited to see that an Android device might actually catch up. I am also willing to take the risk that the apps will catch up. That said, I respect the fact that you may not be (but I'd imagine the apps are the least of your concerns with the various hardware issues).
And why do you assume that I'm offended that you might prefer the iPad? The iPad is a fantastic device. It doesn't surprise me that anyone might prefer it. My "observation" is merely that some discussions at a forums dedicated to the N9 (and Android enthusiast sites) have been uncharacteristically dominated by references and comparisons to the iPad vice other Android tablets.
I apologize if I wasn't clear. I am not concerned with the "bashing", as you put it. Bash away. My point is that the discussions at sites dedicated to Android devices (and this forum) have taken on a different tone than with previous devices, IMHO. Go look at the reviews on the various Android sites and tell me how often per review they directly compare a device to an Apple device. These are Android enthusiast sites. One would naturally expect comparisons between and among Android devices, which is how it's generally been in the past. How is it not noteworthy that one of these sites took it upon itself to dedicate a long point-by-point comparison article to the N9 and Air 2, especially after its review was already littered with comparisons? It takes only a modicum of reason to realize that most people peruse Android enthusiast sites to read about Android devices. Not that Android and Apple enthusiasts are mutually exclusive., but there are scores of mainstream tech sites that provides ample comparisons between devices of all types - not to mention sites dedicated specifically to Apple devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
AstroDigital said:
What site is bashing the Nexus 9, none I read.
The reviews I read do not give it glowing reviews but do not bash it either.
Here is an example of a review,
http://www.engadget.com/products/htc/nexus/9/
As far as battery life,
I am a fool.....
The average for battery life is 8 out 10, lots of fools I guess.
The Nexus 9 is not the Nexus 7 or iPad, I wish people stop comparing two unrelated products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well If I got that I'd be good. But I don't use my tablet for video.
I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!
well, let me throw in a few feelings on this
you can go look at rootzwiki, hahaha a joke, they almost dont exist and barely have any news , let alone devs anymore. when is the last time you say a news blog point to rootz.
its finals time for school, i personally will be taking my calculus final in a few hours, so i dont have time to dive into my N9's new update.
the N9 is a new device, and google is releasing a new AOSP build almost weekly, go have a look at slim roms gerrit , and you will see the amount of work they have been doing for the source. (thought not the n9 yet)
there are way to many posts here of complaints, and statistically thats what happens, people are more likely to complain and post negative things, and not so much positive if its working as expected. i have a very nicely working model, and have no reason to RMA it because the buttons are flush. with no screen bleed or overheating issues.
i also dont feel the need to whine and complain about every little thing like im entitled to perfection . (damn kids today) We have come a long way in devices since my first hand held computer (which still works) the tandy pc-8. and now i have devices which were only a scifi prop a mere 10 years ago.
the new version of the OS, its changes to ART, and core linux behaviour, are causing some devs to to have to dig into new programming books, and alot more source code than had remained the same base for so many years. so i already knew not to expect drastic and fast changes to the newer builds.
it will happen, but its only been a month since i received my device, and hell, the protective cases are not even here yet. ( i found development for the n7 did not get going heavily for at least 2 months after release.
as for attitude on this site, it will happen when one nerd tries to outnerd another, feeling like everyone should already be up to snuff on how to use a editor to edit their settings.db, thats not reality, every single person here was a noob at one time or another, and got help from someone to learn their skill, maybe posters will try to remember that. if you dont have a question, or an answer, think about the reason you are posting, if its to bash someone asking why they cant get a fastboot command to work, help them. we have all left a ";" out at the end of our code at one time or another.
chainfire has been one hell of a bum busting dev, and everyone should toss a few beer/coffee bucks in his direction. i feel he kickstarted the n9's life.
What ever it is, I joined the nexus 9 family. I will be getting the tablet this weekend.
ram130 said:
Great points. I did. Didn't meant it has completely saying it's bad. So I take back my choice of words. Thanks. I'm hopeful the Android tablet will rule. I've read the reviews too. Even so it will help push tablet apps. But I'm patient. Just wish Google took more attention to detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.
mrshades812 said:
I too have been surprised with the lack of development on this device. I understand it is a new architecture, being 64 bit, but how about a stock rooted rom?
That is usually the first thing to come out, but I guess we don't have a developer with the device to be able to cook up a stock, rooted rom? What we need to do is get together and donate a device to @scrosler. He is a beast at busting out stock roms for the N7 within minutes it seems!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?
cor_mann said:
I apologize for sounding snarky. I don't want to minimize your frustrations. I can see that you're an android enthusiast (I probably would have given up on finding a quality unit well before you do/did). In many ways, your willingness to share your criticisms may help push Google to address some of the glaring issues with Android and the N9's hardware. I shouldn't have referenced the batterylife thread, because I don't want people to think that it's only their comments that have led to my rant. It's a combination of things.
This probably sounds silly, but I like to think of us android enthusiasts as the people who habitually root for the underdog. We look for virtues (humbleness, etc) in the teams that get completely punished by the opposition. I'm a Redskins fan (sorry...very American reference), so I feel this oh-too-keenly. I know this sounds silly since Google is a multi-billion dollar company, but in the world of tech, Android devices are still perceived as inferior to Apple devices. In other words, they are the underdog.
I get that we shell out hard-earned money for these devices so we deserve to be taken care of. But I feel like it's the intangibles that Android brings to the table - even at its worst - that attract me (customization, more openness, freedom, etc.). I feel like the Android community shares this feeling. I can come to these sites and read/discuss Android devices without the inevitable "just buy an Apple [insert device here]" refrain. I go to Apple sites to read about Apple (or the mainstream tech sites). For me, Android is not about the "perfect" phone or tablet. It's about the process of making it better, which naturally relies on help from people who are much more skilled and knowledgeable than myself. I don't frequent Apple forums much, but I cannot imagine they have the same feeling of community that Android users have. Our developers spend their precious time making people's lives - whom they don't know from Adam - a little bit better at virtually no cost to us - much like Linux and other open-source devs do. Where else in our lives does that happen.
Rightly or wrongly, I feel like the brouhaha caused by some Android sites' uncharacteristic iPad-like expectations for the N9 have directly or indirectly weakened the community response to the N9. I don't want to see people simply give up on the N9 because some Android reviewers implied that it's just better to get an iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate, I've read all you've said, and I have to say that I agree with you all the way. You really hit the nail on it's head. When I got my first Android it was the HTC Wildfire, horrible device, but when I heard about what rooting was and what it could do I got exited! There was a possibility to make it better.. This feeling continued through my Desire S and One X. But when I got the Nexus 5, it sort of halted. I got an amazing device without much hazzle and now on the OnePlus One I'm running stock rooted.. The excitement is gone.. But now we have the opportunity once again. A device which leaves much to be improved and optimized, just like the old days. I, for one, am really looking forward to see this beast reach its full potential and I'm enjoying the ride to get there
Smashed down on the mighty Nexus 9
The key issue is that the tablet market is saturated now... Tablets are actually on a downswing currently (even with iPads, etc.). With the recent introduction and trend towards larger phones, the lines become further blurred.
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
I expect once the LTE version comes out we will see a price drop and hopefully the QC is in check by then .... At that point I'll be in the market again to buy it (hopefully for $100-$200 cheaper).
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
di11igaf said:
It would only take 5 minutes but what's the point? You're on the stock ROM, if you want to flash something you already have recovery, literally you just download this and flash it. Rooted stock ROM. With a nexus you always have googles images to flash. If you have recovery rooting them is only a flash away.
I'm not being smart, I'm seriously asking is that something people actually want?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you missed the point. The topic was community, so I was commenting on the lack of even a stock rom.
Smashed on the N9
jsgiv said:
I think the slow adoption of the N9 is not only impacted by this downswing, but also add in the price point it's coming in at compared to the various competing tablets. Add in the wildly varying reviews (though most of them are fairly consistent in that lollipop is great, the hardware is sufficient, but most are disappointed in one aspect or another)... I'm not surprised at the low adoption rate to-date with the tablet. MKBHDs review echoes my issues perfectly... Software is great... Hardware is ok but it needs to drop in price...
I've returned my unit "for now" until the price drops and, hopefully in the meantime, the nitpicks on the hardware can be addressed with the build quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the pricepoint is what drove some of the comparison with the ipads. I, like many of you, have waited a long time for the 9 to come out. I even set aside the cash to pick up the 32 gig even though it was a lot higher priced than i thought it was going to be. I wanted this to be my first tablet.
I had purchased a 1st Gen 7 for my wife for Christmas two years ago and she loves that thing. Once I started seeing the negative reviews and posts about the poor build quality I reconsidered.
So on Black Friday I jumped on the $199 8.4 tab pro deal. Great little tablet for the money But I sure wanted to join the Nexus Club. Maybe later when the price comes down and they get some of the bugs worked out it will be worth the premium.