Database Users

An unusual way to tell the Xoom just might be OK

We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).

kcrudup said:
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
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your point for posting this?

tech support blows and people are stupid

znfrazier said:
your point for posting this?
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Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").

kcrudup said:
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
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No se. i thought you had a question lol and i read through it like 3 times.. my b :O

>But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience
I think it's more about the mainstreaming of mobile devices. Smartphones will always be hampered by the monthly carrier fees, even as they become more popular. Tabs will be mostly wifi (no fees), and their larger size are more versatile, and thus more appealing.
>IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing.
In the short run, I disagree. Honeycomb is still beta status, and this first crop of Android tabs are premium-priced. In both price/performance and user-experience, the lackluster Android effort only justifies the iPad's frontrunner status.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. Android's quasi-open-source, multi-vendor approach means more competition, which means lower prices. There is already price competition for this first crop; Moto was forced to drop pricing (nominally) even before the Xoom was available for some region.
Lower pricing will be key to any new platform adoption, fragmentation be damned. Use MS Windows as a gauge. In the near future, you will walk into a retail outlet and see the iPad 2 for $500, and a similar Android tab for $300. The Android may be less polished, but it isn't as limited as the Apple toy. More importantly, it's a $200 difference.
How "near" is near? I'd say next year. The mentioned price delta is likely to be achieved this year, but the UX and app repertoire still aren't a sufficient value proposition for Android tabs. It'll take a year.
For the Xoom specifically, there isn't a need to apologize for it per the topic header. How well the Xoom sells is irrelevant to a Xoom owner, since he already bought it. Its hardware is similar enough to others of the Teg2 crop that there'll be 3rd-party support, regardless of official Moto support. To wit: somebody has already used Asus' source to develop SD-slot support for the Xoom.
Buying is an emotional process, and people have a need to justify their choice in the presence of peers, eg buying a Xoom is "good." Rationally speaking, it's irrelevant. You buy something because you want or need it, and you can afford it. That's it. It doesn't matter what others buy or don't buy. Have self-confidence.

When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy." I was getting one as soon as I'd gotten the specs on it, no matter if there were only 5K sold.
(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )

>When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy."
I disagree on that. Moto's premium strategy is ill-advised, since its exclusivity isn't long enough, and its hardware isn't differentiated enough. The rumored sales numbers is a good indication.
This isn't to say that the Xoom is over-priced. While the 3G model has a hefty premium attached, the wifi model is competitive at $600 for 32GB. Moto's mistake is in not leading with the 16GB SKU at the iPad-decreed $500 price point. Hence its "more expensive yet does less" tag.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree)
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.

>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
e.mote said:
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
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Well, not quite. I was here at the office bored working on some other stuff, when I decided to take another look at the board files in our own source 'cause I'd remembered one of the other platforms had more SDHCI channels defined. I figured out what to do about 3 hrs later, and sent BigRushDog and CoolBHO3K a PM telling 'em what I'd had, and it turns out they too had been working on it simultaneously, using the Asus kernel sources as a guide (which I still haven't seen yet, gotta download it in case there's other stuff in there we can use).
Since BRD/CBHO3K have already put kernels out there, I just sent them the GitHub commits I'd done and told them to pick and choose what they'd want to use (IIRC, the mounting stuff in the init scripts).
I'm still running my own stuff too (mostly 'cause our kernels have diverged a bit as I've pulled in more upstream changes, as least as of Sunday).
But hey, SD-Card works now!

A thumb's-up for the effort, and in sharing it with the community.
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.

e.mote said:
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
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Man, you just don't know- I'd sell my firstborn* for the real NVidia Tegra 2 chipset programming manual, and/or the full schematic for the Xoom!
* - as I don't have any kids yet, unless your name is "Rumplestiltskin" I ain't got nothin' to worry about

No love from the Nvidia developer PR rep? OK, clue me in. What does it take to get the Teg250 tech ref? Or do people use OpenMax for Android?

kcrudup said:
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
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Of course, you have the reverse- i.e., where the "Average Joe" in the Motorola forums is now all over the Moto forums *****ing and moaning endlessly "to Motorola" (they really do believe that forum is special 'cause it's hosted on Moto's site) over lack of SD-Card and LTE upgrade (the latter doesn't exist only 'cause of parts shortages, but the non-tech crowd over there has misinterpreted Jha's "LTE incompatibility" statement and run with it).
It's utterly unreadable over there now, and of course you've got your Wingnut Contingent bleating on about "class action lawsuits" and of course the whole "Never buying Moto again" crowd.

RANT - Tablets run about 12 months behind current technology

Ipad3 is about to hit, and it'll have at least a 2000x1500 display. The little 4.5" android phones now have 1280x800 displays and look fabulous - plus the new ones announced at the show in January. The little 11" Macbook Air (I know, a different monster) boasts a 1400x900 display - and that was 2 years ago. And they'll get a tech refresh in April that will likely come close to doubling that. As my boss told me -- "It's all about the screen, stupid".
Half of the current run Tablets have soldered in batteries, half don't even have an SD slot. Those that do use Micro SDs and not the full SDs - which are 3x in capacity and much cheaper. The file systems are archaic, and most don't even use journaling.
Most tablets are stuck on 1GB of usable OS ram, some only 512M - circa 2007. Most come out of the factory "locked" so we can't even improve them ourselves. Any improvements are laughingly done by some pretty smart anonymous developers that are doing your job - something you should have done on the drawing board in the first place. (Give HTC an A+ for unlocking the majority of their equipment - despite the threats from ATT and Verizon lawyers). Some of the tablets are locked into cell companies contracts, and most make pitiful phones anyway.
Most are stuck on cell phone processors, with cell phone graphics chips, cell phone IO controllers, and cell phone memory controllers. None have SDDrives (Ipad3 will blow us away with those too in April - watch).
Some are narrowed down to one vendors files types for reading, and reluctantly include other reading s/w (pdfs etc) as if someone twisted their arms. And non-native formats are ALWAYS just awful on these machines (Nooks, Fires etc).
None have Linux as a base, although with enough trouble we can do it ourselves sans the majority of broken functionality (drivers don't work, bugs, lags, bluetooth, batteries etc). And most can't run in the little 1GB of RAM put in these devices anyway.
These manufacturers just don't get it. They're all about to get their collective butts kicked with the new Ipad, and they'll sit back and scratch their heads saying "Why, we didn't know you customers wanted hi-res displays - nobody told us that - it's not our fault".
Ok guys, and that includes you, Samsung. And you, Asus. And Sony and LG and HTC and all the others. You're in for the azz-kicking of your life and you were warned. You're stuck in your closed-door 3x5 room in Communist China, and your products are all ball-and-chained. Jobs was slick enough to make the China-US thing work, and it took $billions to pay off the gov'ts and build production facilities. He made it look easy - but that certainly doesn't mean just anybody can copy that same manufacturing model and make it work as well as Apple did.
It'll take you about 6 months to even come to terms with your incompetence, re-design this mess, and production is another few months after after testing. In the meantime, iPad3 will dominate for the majority of 2012. So maybe next Christmas we'll see some decent Android tablets, or at least the announcements.
Problem is, is you're terrified. You're afraid to do anything similar to what Steve did. You're scared you'll be fired next day. You have neither the capital nor the balls, nor the competence to produce decent equipment. So if I were you I'd just give it up until October - that'll give you ~1/2 year of humility to get your act together. In the meantime, please don't put out yet ANOTHER 1024x768 tablet with promises of OS upgrades someday on the shelves with fanfare. Besides, the Samsung Note cellphone makes a much better Tablet than anything you've produced to date

I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)

Boy, you're right. That did sound like a SJ fanboy now that I re-read it. Thanks so much for the reflection which was right on.
So good insight - the point being that once again Apple has whipped the majority of open source into submission. Once again. And it's just as pointless this time as it has been in the past. This didn't HAVE to happen. The show in Jan should have be way ahead of Apple's power curve and beat them at their own game. That was the Android opportunity. Instead, we got things like a Razr with a bigger battery, and a boatload of maybe type announcements.
Announcements like OS upgrades - the Achilles heel of Android offerings. "Buy this now and we promise to upgrade it next week - we promise - ok"? Sign here.
Somebody mentioned on another forum that some decent quads were supposed to hit the streets around iPad3 time, I sure hope so. But my point is that now Android may be WAY behind, quad, duos, 8x or even matrixed memory. It's hard enough competing with Apple daily, much less when the judges let the Apple horses out of the gate 4 months ahead of all the rest.
A Quad? Well, cool. But what kind of quad? How about Intel? How about RISC? How about 6 or 7A batteries? How about USB3? How about flexible screens? How about firewire or even a fiber standard? But our bragging points over the holidays were these dockable semi-keyboard dual unit thingies multi-part gadgets, sigh.
Actually my point was despite Apple's reign on this whole market we Androiders' have got the best people. We've got the best engineers. The best scientists. We've got the best coders. But it's aggravating that whenever we get a head of steam, we kick our feet on the table, light up a cigar and sure enough - 6 months later Apple sneaks in the back door and forecloses on us. With all the legal fanfare and international press due such an event. These little Androids are just too good to be tossed under the bus because of no-vision like this.
You know, now that we're playing around way up in the jetstream with the big boys, we're now flying into a 200kt headwind here. Not that Apple is already enough of a headache. But NOW we've got the dam cellphone companies so tangled in greed that some feel we may as well just land till the wind dies down. Oh boy, we've got LTE with 2GB caps, with entire rooms full of cellphone company staffers (mostly in India) writing code to catch us busting limits. It's nuts.
In any event, let's don't strut around thinking that since we Android-ers are much more realistic and even sharper than the iPod crowd, that we've naturally got the lead. We don't. Blame it on Google for not policing Android maybe. Or maybe the platforms. Or the manufactures' them selves. Blame isn't the point - the point is they're about to kick our azzes again regardless of fault

Hmm, /some/ points, but I /have/ to correct a few misunderstandings...
ARM is RISC. Saying same as 'cell phone processors' isn't really fair as those cell phone processors are going to be used for the WIN8 tablets (and I suspect Apple's main OS possibly too). Something that used to trundle along at a pedestrian's pace is now capable of great visual/sound processing, decent speed in the UI, background FTP'ing, all whilst using GPS to determing where you are as you yell over the phone (using bluetooth).
Specs for iPad3 are still unknown, probably overflated, and when the devices DO land, probably missing some obvious stuff Android devices already have but WILL be there for the next version! go go goodteam upgrades!
Screens I think have hit the 'good enough for anything' rez, we're going to see varieties of designs, but that's where Android is doing great on different styles. It may have been a bit faffy for devs to make sure their apps work at various sizes/densities, but it'll pay off eventually. It's a problem Windows machines solve easily enough, and eventually, if Apple DO want to offer more choice, something they'll need to master too. There'll be bigger/faster gfx chips able to pump out more triangles, and as you correctly say, the memory busses could do with a bit more oomph to help that, but this are all problems solved on the desktop, and the chip manufacturers are doing a great job bringing faster speeds with lower power to better looking displays. Rez? Probably not going to change that much, but the contrast/ability to clearly see outdoors using these things? that'll get a bit of a bump I think yet.
I'm with you on the SD slot. Wish there were more devices using the larger slot, would give more upgrade room later. What we've got works fine for pure memory though, it's just additional storage. As to filesystems? Meh, what we've got there is fine, looks like a few people are switching to ext4, but it's a decent filesystem, battle tested and improved.
PDF's/SWF's/doc's, there's apps to handle any of that, if you even need to edit them. Tablets are great for readonly viewing of these things. I'd hate to spend too long creating too many big documents, but whatever I create on the PC should be available, and so far, it is. We'll see what Microsoft does to file formats in the future, I think with Win8 and having MSOffice come with ARM tablets, we'll see MS doing what MS do best, screwing everyone else and forcing upgrades.
None have Linux as a base? Uhm... there's a Linux kernal running away there on all the Android Tablets. Though I'd like to see the Android fork merge back one day, I don't fully understand the need for the locks to make Android fork instead of using/adapting how Linux already did that, but hope something can be done to bring it back home to the main tree.
Hirez screens, price, availability, demand. If there was an Android Tablet today offering 3kx3k, but cost 1200bucks? It'd be niche. Alas, in this world, it takes Apple to release and demo before people 'get it', and manufactures accept they need to ramp up production, for the demand. Androids been pushing up the rez, the OS supports it, the hardware can run it now, and prices aren't too off the chart, I see them coming down in price. Again, no-one knows for sure upcoming rez specs for the iPad3, the top end Android tablets (of which the latest Prime has top rez I think?) could be above/match what's coming from Cupertino.
I'm with you on the Note too. I got the Samsung Galaxy Tab that I wanted to use as a phone/tablet combo, it's taken until ICS to /really/ make it smooth to use, and the phone functionality being killed in the US was just stupid. It was a mistake that they're not making with the Note it appears, that really should have been released 6-9months ago in the US, even with a lower spec chip. The move to tabphones/phonelets? has been obvious. (and also makes me wonder if, despite Jobs saying no to it, if Apple WILL release a bigger phone/smaller tablet.). There's an obvious demand for that sort of size, it really does give you the best of both worlds.
Some challenging points you bring up, look forward to further thoughts sir!

andyharney said:
I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)
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http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
Need i say any more
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

buckwheat.phd said:
Waaaah
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Waaaaaaah.

Know why this forum is dead?

Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
UPDATE:
I almost wish I had time for a proper reply, but I have better things to do so I'll keep it short. All the back-peddling about how you "didn't buy the Ouya gaming console for gaming but for use as an HTPC" is just too much. So you people are telling me that you spent $100 on a crippled, locked-down, HTPC without a proper remote but instead a wimpy game controller when you could have spent $100 on a Vizio-CoStar which has HDMI pass-through, IR-Blaster and a proper GTV Media remote?!
Seriously?
Out of the box, the Co-Star shows up the Ouya in EVERY way (except XBMC as of 2014-02-10 it seems) as an HTPC AND can be used for gaming. Since it comes with the Play Store (Ouya doesn't) and supports all the most common media apps, it doesn't require any hacking AND can still play your favorite games. If you take 5 minutes to root it (yes, it's rootable), then you could pair up a Sixaxis or Wii controller (both of which I have laying around as many of you likely do) an you get a better controller than what Ouya provides.
So please tell me again how you purchased the Ouya for use as an HTPC and your $100 was well spent. While you provide more silly, defensive posts attempting to do so, I'll be USING my device and not worrying about how I'll overcome the limitations of the device I invested in so that I can do some basic task like listening to music from All Access or watching Netflix
Anyone want to venture a guess at why this post is easily the 2nd most active for this forum?! *roll eyes*
UPDATE 20140115:
Still in denial guys? OUYA Founding Team Member and VP of Product Development Departs
I'm still batting 1000 when it comes to calling successes and failures. This and the stats behind it prove what I've been saying from day one; DOA because it has no value (to people with some sense anyway, there's always that 10% as we say in the Corp).
They say "OUYA is an ever changing business". I don't disagree, death and failure do represent change. The real story though:
Another side of the story is the reportedly poor performance of the OUYA in the consumer market, however. Early developer sales numbers indicate that software isn’t faring very well on the platform, and pre-holiday sales with drastic price reductions don’t bode well for buyer interest in hardware, either. A well-placed source tells TechCrunch that the decision to leave OUYA was Ghadiali’s own, not the company’s.
OUYA definitely seems to be occupying rocky waters at the moment​
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Go ahead and tell me one more time why I'm wrong since people are still keeping this thread active in their attempts to convince themselves I'm not.
For the record, 7 months after I posted this and these forums still have only 7,624 posts. I was trying to find a cheap, unpopular phone to compare to (since pretty much anything will meet or beet the Ouya in any number of way), but nothing is close enough to even make it worth the mention.

i have to say i agree with you i always knew the idea of a android console is useless because the games are no difference than for example on a galaxy s3 or something and a phone is portable and u can also plug a phone to a tv for mirroring and put a game controller on it and your set to go

I don't really agree, I think it's a really good product, it's much cheaper than a phone and allows those with bad economy to still be able to enjoy the high end games from the android world. not to mention without the hassle of getting a gaming controller hooked up and/or video out, not all phones have it.
also the forum is not dead, there's been plenty of activity considering how many have the ouya at the time of writing we already have a CWM port. roms are in the works. we have root/superuser app guides and XBMC apk sideloading. for 99 usd it's definately worth it.

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
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Wow...I dunno about flaming, but as one of the backers I've got to disagree totally. Other than getting my Ouya a wee bit later than I would have expected, I'm quite satisfied with mine and my experience with it. I think that once it hits retail and more folks actually HAVE the device then activity on these forums will pick up. At 99 bucks it is a very afordable tinkering device.
I've no clue where you get the logic that they took advantage of or owe anything to the community. Backers paid their money and have either already received their Ouya or will shortly. Any rough edges with the software will (hopefully) mostly be smoothed out by the time the device hits actual retail. Remember those of us who have it are pretty much beta testers right now.
Heck...I like mine so much I'm kind of regretting not backing a 2nd unit or the limited edition one!

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
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Well you also are entitled to your opinion, but as one of those people who "can/would hack such a device", I've gotta say you're wrong on that particular "fact". Development is limited to a few individuals, but we're moving full steam ahead, already have CWM working thanks to mybook4 and I just minutes ago finished building my first Alpha of CM10. So before you pop in just to troll, how about you do just a little bit of poking in the development section so you know what you're talking about. I was surprised to see this post was from you, I thought a veteran like yourself would be more open minded.

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
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Click to collapse
My phone is a phone, perhaps you don't get many phone calls or text messages, fortunately I do.
If I did want to use my phone as a console I would have to buy a hdmi adapter,hdmi cable and a controller. So the economic argument doesn't hold any water.
No need to flame, your logic is flawed and your research non existent.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Sounds like the same arguments I heard for why tablets will never make it... and everyone and their mother now has one... or two. Its a little early to be a negative nancy when the thing isn't even avaliable in stores yet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The most valuable part of the ouya is not the hardware, although, a Tegra 3 (optimized thx to active heat-sink and 'unlimited' power), 1GB RAM, and 16GB flash with a wireless control for $100 is pretty damny competitive. If you consider the controller at $20-$25 that means the console is going for about $75.
No, the real value in Ouya is the work their team has done to pull together Indie gaming developers into a Steam-esque group targeting a fairly consistent hardware platform on a fairly fragmented OS that is android. By getting gaming companies and others to sign up with Ouya, there is an arguably simpler way to get games published, advertised, and consumed for android.

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a high end laptop and pc. I have a Galaxy note 2. My girlfriend owns a S3.
My ouya arrived yesterday, and i have to say i am loving it so much. To what you said.. i can't really agree with you.
I am not saying this to justify the product but for the prize tag i found my money well well spend.. its just like professorpoptart said.
Its almost the same argument

At that price it would make a neat little media centre in my opinion, if not for the fact my main pc is connected to the tv already.

rainabba said:
Because this device is a waste of money. I have to say "told you so" here (though I doubt anyone here actually heard me say it) because this is exactly what I said would happen. The Ouya is pointless because the majority of people interested in this product likely already have other Android devices that are just as, if not more capable.
The forums are going to be more dead than the sales because the people who can/would hack such a device, can spend their time being far more productive on modern phones/tablets that do more than the Ouya and are at least comparable in power.
I think Ouya should admit their flawed logic and do something for the community that funded them on Kickstarter. I'm not one and have no personal stake but I do feel they took advantage of the Android community.
If you disagree with me, you're welcome to your opinion, but the facts can't be ignored.
Let the flaming begin if it must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? at least give them a chance. Kickstarters are finally starting to recieve there's. At least wait till it goes on retail to down the product. Personally I just got mine for xbmc and emulators and im quite pleased with it sure it has its issues but with the openness of it at least you wont be at the mercy of company to fix things like another device I bought awhile ago (boxee box)

professorpoptart said:
Sounds like the same arguments I heard for why tablets will never make it... and everyone and their mother now has one... or two. Its a little early to be a negative nancy when the thing isn't even avaliable in stores yet.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?

trogdan said:
The most valuable part of the ouya is not the hardware, although, a Tegra 3 (optimized thx to active heat-sink and 'unlimited' power), 1GB RAM, and 16GB flash with a wireless control for $100 is pretty damny competitive. If you consider the controller at $20-$25 that means the console is going for about $75.
No, the real value in Ouya is the work their team has done to pull together Indie gaming developers into a Steam-esque group targeting a fairly consistent hardware platform on a fairly fragmented OS that is android. By getting gaming companies and others to sign up with Ouya, there is an arguably simpler way to get games published, advertised, and consumed for android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, so let's say you're right. They're likely able to sell the hardware that cheap because they're getting it practically free (it's already basically obsolete hardware which is half my point). Why buy another device, that's already obsolete, to play games I could play on my newer, better devices?
I can think of one reason; because Ouya's game library won't be available for regular Android devices and if that's true, then I might as well buy a real console that's magnitudes more powerful OR just play games on the web (since WebGL + my PC, tablet, or phone is already more powerful than the Ouya).
On the other hand, if they do share the games, I'm back to my first point; why buy obsolete hardware to play on when I can use hardware I already have, that's more powerful?
As for your disagreement; of course you disagree. As you said, you're a backer and the reality is that unless you're part of a very small minority of people on this planet, you now have to contend with cognitive dissonance and all my logic and rational arguments mean nothing in light of that
On that note, I'm going to sit back and watch everyone try to convince themselves of how wrong I am and see if anything interesting comes of that conversation.

tennisbgc said:
Really? at least give them a chance. Kickstarters are finally starting to recieve there's. At least wait till it goes on retail to down the product. Personally I just got mine for xbmc and emulators and im quite pleased with it sure it has its issues but with the openness of it at least you wont be at the mercy of company to fix things like another device I bought awhile ago (boxee box)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For use as an "Open Google TV-type" hardware platform, I would be interested but my Vizio Co-Star does such a good job now (for $100) but instead of focusing on a GPU and controller (which I already have thanks to my PS3 Six-axis controllers laying around), it focused on the remote which is phenominal. I'd love to see that platform opened up, even with it's weaker specs (by the way, 1GB of ram for an "Android gaming console" is laughable when it's meant to serve 1080p gaming).
My original point stands. The Ouya, as a gaming platform, is little more than a scam or pet-project and the latter is fine by me so long as they're honest about it.

rainabba said:
For use as an "Open Google TV-type" hardware platform, I would be interested but my Vizio Co-Star does such a good job now (for $100) but instead of focusing on a GPU and controller (which I already have thanks to my PS3 Six-axis controllers laying around), it focused on the remote which is phenominal. I'd love to see that platform opened up, even with it's weaker specs (by the way, 1GB of ram for an "Android gaming console" is laughable when it's meant to serve 1080p gaming).
My original point stands. The Ouya, as a gaming platform, is little more than a scam or pet-project and the latter is fine by me so long as they're honest about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was looking into that player but the lacking of local media made me go this direction.

rainabba said:
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people I know either own a iPad or Kindle. I have a galaxy tab 2 which is most definitely not more powerful than an Ouya. There are only a handful of tablets that are more powerful than the OUYA and they are not mainstream devices.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

tennisbgc said:
I was looking into that player but the lacking of local media made me go this direction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic but if I understand you correctly, it sounds like you may not realize but would want to know that the Vizio co star has mass storage support through USB.

Once it's fully working I expect this will become a pretty good little media box, but outside just netflix etc, it is also a great little emulation device, may have a couple fun games, etc. As an open platform it may end up much better then any roku, Apple TV, or other box. Is it a perfect device? No, but until it's actual release I'm no where near calling it worthless.

rainabba said:
The irony here (aside from you missing my point entirely) is that you're making my point for me. "everyone and their mother now has one... or two [tablets]"... that are more powerful than the Ouya, can also be paired with any number of controls, connected to their TVs, and run all the same games Ouya can.
Why buy another device (even if it's "only" $100) that's inferior hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you could show me to a few tablets that are more powerful then the ouya at a reasonable prize ($100-$150)
Then please show me.. i would love one

thinkgreenn said:
If you could show me to a few tablets that are more powerful then the ouya at a reasonable prize ($100-$150)
Then please show me.. i would love one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that also has the hdmi out he's talking about. not many do, and if they do they're in the 400-600 usd pricerange as far as I've seen. unless they're some cheap china thing. in which case they are far from high end and it would look much more clunky having a hacked up setup with a tablet dangling around the TV. the ouya is a much more cleaner solution fit for the task. and it's cheap

From the inside looking out...

I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...

agrabren said:
I'm sure for many people, the last 24 hours has sucked in regards to SHIELD. I know for me it has. And even more frustrating is the lack of communication and transparency that should be expected from a large corporation who cares about its customers. Obviously, I feel the anger and frustration that is being vented both in the geforce forums and, to a lesser extent, over here on XDA. And I have no other outlet than XDA. First, and foremost, realize that the decision to delay the product, the reasons behind it, and the execution of the delay are unrelated. I, along with many, feel they really messed up on the execution of the announcement. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. There are hundreds of engineers around the world who have been putting in long hours for months (some of us, even over a year) to make this product. This is a passion for us. I, personally, involved myself into community aspects of the device. For example, I was one of the voices asking for the device to be unlockable. And NVIDIA didn't put up a fight for it, they agreed. Deep down, the heart of the company wants the best for everyone.
I'd like to answer a few questions that I ask myself, as a developer and a member of the XDA community:
1. Do you plan to run CM on the device, and why?
This is always a very important question for me while at work. This question is important because it represents all the shortcomings I feel exist in the product. But I'm not the average user, I'm an XDA member. That means that additional settings do not scare me. Ease of use can be reduced in the name of more advanced functionality. And Google Certification is a requirement that CM doesn't have. But I think deeply about every feature I want from a custom ROM, and what the product should do. Ultimately, yes, I plan to install CM. And it is because of the advanced tweaks available in CM that don't belong in a standard user device.
2. Do you think the device is worth it?
Do I think the device is worth the long hours, the stress, the loss of my personal development time (which is why I had to mostly drop the EVO 3D), and the time away from my kids? Obviously, that question also has the benefits I've gotten, like attending CES and Google I/O. But ultimately, I still work on it, and I still want it to be the best it can be. So the answer has to be yes.
3. This whole debacle is ridiculous, shouldn't I just cancel my pre-order? NVIDIA obviously doesn't know how to launch a product...
This comes back to the earlier message. Engineers build a product, marketing sells a product, and the company as a whole is represented by the product. The mistakes made in the messaging and delays don't represent the engineering and product, they represent a company which still has some lessons in releasing a customer product. It's easy to get emotionally wrapped up in it, because the disappointment so close to the release. And I'm not immune. If anything, I've also got the disappointment in the world finally getting to see what we've done and use it. That's why I'm writing this thread, because it helps me express my feelings in a constructive way.
4. What would you change?
I'm slowly becoming disenchanted with Google's AOSP design. While I love the product being so close to AOSP, it reminds me how ugly AOSP really is. I don't want something like Sense or Touchwiz. What I want is AOSP, but sharper looking and using the graphical power of modern devices. Does everything really need a flat gray look? TWRP looks ugly to me, compared to the install phase of 4EXT. Halo is outdated and sad-looking. I want glass effects, I want sharp text and lines. I want to feel like the display is sharp and crisp while in the launcher and settings. I want my settings to have tabs (like MIUI used to have, maybe still does?) for the different areas. But again, the goal is to line up with AOSP, which I can respect.
Ok, so I'm out of questions and I'm feeling a bit better. If you have questions for me, be my guest... I'll do my best to answer, and when I can't, I'll do my best to get an official answer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks man!
am i sad about the delay? yeah a little. but i respect Nvidia as a company and I know they can deliver. and if they need an extra month(or 4) to do so, im perfectly ok with it. from the gpu's to the specs to the videos, websites and drivers.. i love almost everything about Nvidia and a botched release date is NOT going to make me cancel my pre-order.
I hope nvidia uses this time to add/optimize a few extra streamable games

Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..

I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.

Evo_Shift said:
I know delays can happen. What frustrates me is the short notice and the fact that specs in the mobile world get outdated in about 6 months. I want this device while it is the cream of the crop as far as specifications are concerned. I don't think it was a coincidence that Gamestop had the release date listed as 6/30 for awhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 6/30 release date was because we listed "by the end of June" as our target launch date before we made had set a hard launch date. So GameStop did the obvious: June has 30 days, so it ships June 30th.

gigsaw said:
Excuse me for the non-Shield related question, I just wanted to know if you definetly dropped the EVO 3D or in future you probably come back..of course you don't have to give a single explaination to anybody, but if you won't develop anymore for evo, probably I will change device because there isn't a fully functional and stable rom (with or without 3D) with a new version of jelly bean and I have to stuck on the old Android 4.0..I appreciate the efforts that many developers are still making for this quite-old device, but some bugs probably won't never be fixed without you (i'm talking about battery drain, bootloops..).
Sorry for the off topic..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My future on the EVO 3D is on a feature-by-feature basis. As was pointed out accurately, since I don't run the OS as a daily, I don't see the issues like I did when it was my primary device.

Ok Mad Catz, I tried to embrace you...I really did

I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
Exactly as I put it above. They did not know how to root their own device and needed Modaco to come forward with a root method, and thank GOD for that, as without it you would quickly discover that you cannot download a single thing from the Playstore without it. But root is usually the beginning to better things. It seems like it was the one and only mod. Root was necessary, but custom recovery and a WAY to recover this device is also necessary. You just gave the general population a way to wreck the Mojo, but no way to recover from it. Nice. Feels like this was merely released and that is all. Sort of like "here you go, figure it out". You advertise on the box that this can play your Playstore purchases, but not until rooting. You guys should be rooting these before packaging.
2. Price
I never had an issue with the price, but I know others have. For a "figure it out on your own, we will not assist" type of device, maybe the introductory price should have been $199, and then dropped to $150. I fear the price is driving away potential devs...that is the price of what you are getting. The console is great, and honestly does not need to be included with that controller. It does not have a screen like the Shield. There is no reason why the joystick cannot be omitted and the price drastically lowered...maybe down to Minix Neo X7 pricetag ($130)
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
I saw a blog my someone (I will not mention his name) in which you guys were supposed to send him a Mojo and never did. He didn't care, but was upset because you guys made a promise and backed out. You didn't even contact him again. Not good. These Mojo units should have been handed out to the dev elite to help keep this box alive. If they don't have it and are reluctant to buy it, nothing is going to come of it. Get it? Ohh, and advertising is key for products. I saw you guys talking it up pre-release in trade shows, NeweggTV, etc. Then it is released and nothing. You did make that Ouya announcement two months ago....but the light is dimming. Faster items are on the way and this device is going to be forgotten before it has a chance to be remembered.
It pains me to say it, but I have now too returned my Mojo. Not because anyone talked me into another device, but because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all....is the doom that is the Mojo. No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. What if some rogue app bricked the mojo? What are you going to tell me? Send it to Canada and wait a month for you to flash it? Or do you even know how to do that?
I ended up ordering the Minix Neo X7 (I know the X8 is coming, and will probably get that as well) not because I think it is more powerful (I know it is not) but because there is a world of active development going in for the device and a dozen ways to ensure that I never end up with a paperweight down the road. If it runs emulators/movies/music well that is all I need. I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh.

Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.

AmigaWolf said:
Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)

zektor said:
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wait i forgot, is it bed time for you little child, Yes i hear your mother yelling that you must go to bed, because you must go to school in the morning.
Sleep tight, and don't let the bedbugs bite.

I agree with zektor I biught this cuz it said was going to be rooted and was good quality but was very disappointed with the extra stuff I had to do. Not for the average person. Hes right the more people the more development from devs amd if it takes mad catz giving some free out to high level devs to make thier product better then they need to hurry up. There used to be a mad catz rep here but ive seen nothing for a while I ciuld be wrong. Maybe cause he has blno answers anymore

zektor said:
I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
2. Price
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.

gwaldo said:
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it was a nice setup and yes, I still do believe there are reasons to buy the Mojo. But, it is not future proof. It is getting older by the day (the Tegra 4) and more and more devices will have the processor (or something more powerful) built in. When that happens, the Mojo will become less exclusive and less desirable. It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.

It's nice to see some news. The 4k support means they are doing something. Not hearing anything for almost 3 months since ouya announcement and kit Kat upgrade has made it hard to have faith in improvements, but it sounds like it may still be coming

What is future proof nowadays things are changing at a very fast pace but I'm in no rush couldn't be happier with my mojo there may be new hardware coming but its not out yet and there is nothing on the play store that this baby won't run at this time horse before the cart

zektor said:
It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!

gwaldo said:
I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.

zektor said:
It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.

AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.

zektor said:
I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Computer cpu's are built to last, just in the past they got outdated so fast. These days you can get a new cpu and be good for a very long time and it will outlast any other piece of computer equipment. I've actually never had a cpu go bad. But at the non component level, most consumer electronics have very short shelf life.

AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't agree, there are still companies out there that make great and out lasting products!
They add extra features that others don't, yes it's more expensive but less disposable.. like the SID chip on the C64 and the BT4/USB3,etc on the MOJO... it didn't have to be there and it's really at the manufactures risk/expense because it's their profit margin that it effects.
But it gives the company integrity for not selling out like their cheaper competitors.
I think things now are built for the lowest common denominator and only the brave step out of that.
IE: mobile phones, In Australia, it's next to impossible to buy a new mobile with a keyboard
Anyway, it's interesting