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so, i come from a Windows Mobile background (HTC Wizard first, Samsung Code after that). I've never owned an iPhone or played much with one.
we happened to be in the mall around the apple store and it was unbelievably packed (seriously). so we went in while we waited for our friends. and i started to play with an iPhone 4...and i'm not changing my phone...obviously. i pulled out the evo and I had my newly converted Avatar playing and got many looks from customers there....
anyways, point is while trying out the iphone I got to play guitar hero on it and it was great...so i got out of that store wanting to keep my phone and get a new game for it. when I go search on the market the only guitar hero on there has horrible reviews???
has anyone played a guitar hero / band hero type of game for the evo that works well? i dont want the iphone but just that game has had me thinking about it all day!
on another note...when do you guys think we'll start to have the amount of big companies developing for android like for the iphone? i would like to get some premium games!
I know what you mean about big companies developing for the Android Platform. With the fact that Android Devices are now over taking the Iphone.. I would say that it won't be long before we start seeing apps flying out from those same companies that have been dedicating there apps for just the Iphone. They can't ignore the market and the shares that Android phones have now taken. IMOP it's going to happen real soon that we start seeing them. I've noticed a lot more apps being developed across both platforms. Not to mention when you have phones with the speed like the EVO; they know more Iphone users are starting to jump over to the Android platform.
I have seen a few GH games for Android and they are pretty decent IMHO.
well i tried Guitar Hero World Tour and couldn't get past the login screen. after awkwardly putting in my username....what? no ok, next, arrow, nothing to move past that screen. nothing on the menu button...just nothing! and then it force closed...so uninstall and refund.
now i'm trying Guitar Hero 5...it's not perfect but at least it works. i have the idea that the one for iPhone was still better, but from what i'm seeing this is a 3rd party app whereas the iPhone one was official Guitar Hero (from their site).
i got another 23 hours to decide if i want to keep this $10 game
any other recommendations? i know there's a lot of apps that wont show up in the market, maybe you guys know of some killer game like this that's out there?
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
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Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
Zori said:
Off-topic. A few days ago we were at the galleria shopping for a present, and we passed the Apple store like 8 times. Every single time we passed it I would take out my Evo and point it at the store and we would start yelling IPHONE SUCKS ANDROID EVO 4G. And then walk off casually as if nothing had happened. Was awesome.
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This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
bnrbranding said:
This made me LOL.
In any case, to think that developers are going to ignore Android because there are to many handsets is ridiculous. Developers are going to go where the money is, period. Even with the extra headache, having a potential market that is 20x larger is a pretty significant reason to put up with the fragmentation issues (that I don't believe are nearly as bad as the Henny Pennys make it out to be).
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I agree that goes on the books as one of the dumbest arguments i have read. i mean it would never be possible to make an app that let you choose your resolution or make it default to the resolution of the device it is being used on such as with almost every full screen computer game/program :O thats impossible. oh wait no it isnt.
The android platform will pass up iOS (if it hasnt already thought i read it already did but will give benefit of the doubt to apple). The fact that they bring out so many phones is exactly WHY it is going to. you have 1 phone (ok 2 if you count last gen) for sale normally with iOS. you have how many android devices? A LOT. the longer it is out and the more people actually get to use it the fewer iphone drones there will be and the more android will flourish and with that comes more development.
Many developers have already started (though some of them seem not to have done there homework) EA for example has already started...though they said they wished android had an app delivery system such as the istore .... (they apparently haven't heard of the app market in android)..but they are starting to develop.
zeuzinn said:
Sorry, but that's the the dumbest argument I have seen all day. So why is Windows SO successful with app developers? With literally thousands of models of laptops and COUNTLESS configurations of desktops with different screen sizes, resolution, graphics cards, ram, the list goes on.
In fact, Android does it even BETTER than windows. Phone Hardware is tightly tied to Android APIs which means your LED flashlight app should work on all phones with LEDs, and so on.
Resolution is also not an issue with Android, as apps are written like webpages: resolution-independent, unlike iOS. . Example: Most android market apps run great on the newly announced Galaxy Tab whereas Apple had to throw a frickin' iPhone emulator on the iPad.
It ultimately comes down to adoption. Android is a monster now, and developers ARE taking notice. In fact, ALL of my iPhone app favorites are on android, or currently in development.
Also, releasing different phones is NOT stupid marketing. Turns out there are SIX BILLION people in the world, and different people have different needs. One size does NOT fit all. And guess what? Android is projected to become the #1 mobile platform very, very soon.
It's Mac vs. Windows all over again. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's going to win.
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It's a decent argument. They aren't selling these games for $50 like they would on Windows. When you are selling a game for $2-5, margins are slim. Look at the high end games right now, they usually have to make several versions of the game to work for PowerVR GPUs, Adreno, etc.
As for resolution independence, not completely. Android uses raster images for a lot of UI elements. If you look in a APK, you'll see a resource folder that holds image data for various resolutions, usually just two (320x480 and ~800x480). There is no folder for higher resolution tablets so either they'll a) be blurry from scaling up or b) have a lot of empty space in the app. Option A would be the same as how the iOS does it for the iPad. Anyway, this a non issue to me (and hopefully everyone else too). Why use a tablet for phone size apps? I want tablet apps, I already have a damn 4.3" Android phone.
One last point about resolution problems, since Apps have to include weighty graphic files for all resolutions it also has to carry the added file size. So the more resolutions it has to support, the bigger the file. Because Apple was in control of the hardware they were able to do something that works: just double the resolution (320x480 to 640x960). Apps made for both resolutions look the same regardless of which resolution it was originally made for since they can scale 1:1.
Here is why developers don't like the Android Marketplace:
1) Fragmentation, yes it's real. No matter how much you argue, developing for Android requires more work than iOS. That is a fact.
2) Payment method. It sucks on Android and doesn't on iOS. A lower ratio of user buy paid apps on Android and that's a fact.
3) Not as many countries even support paid apps at all. This hurts it a lot.
4) User base is still much larger on iOS.
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
omegasun18 said:
award no one said their wouldnt be more difficulities in dealing with the diffrent resolutions. What we said is that no smart developing firm is going to ignore the android platform because of it which is what the arguement said they would do.
does dealing with multiple resolutions increase cost for the developer and present more difficulties then developing for just 1 phone. Sure. are developers going to turn there nose at the android platform which is currently close to if not bigger then the iOS platform as far as usage and growing quickly? I cant see the future but i would wager no they arent.
so the arguement that big developers will never touch the android platform because of resolution issues IS a stupid arguement. if he would have said the developers are slow to get involved because of how fractured the phones are for the android platform i would tend to agree it was a decent arguement, but thats not what the arguement was.
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By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
Award Tour said:
By itself I agree. But Android's Marketplace problems (which I noted) add up. I work as a developer/designer (not mobile apps though) and time is money. The money just isn't there to justify building both iOS and Android apps.
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Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
werxen said:
Exactly. My boss used to work for 3
Ea games and he said there is an entire section of the Ea building that is sealed off like the pentagon. This section is the iPhone developers area. With ios booming so much its not economically feasible to develop for Android. Besides that the android line has far too many hardware differences. There is a lot of bad information in this thread. Believe me when I say everything I have said to be the truth. If android wants games like iPhone it needs to start producing similar hardware which is not going to happen.
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I agree with the other poster, if the buyers are there, developers will invest into the platform. Android Hardware fragmentation will never be solved and will always be a pain to developers. That said, it'll be a pain they'll tolerate but not until they fix the broken Marketplace that is preventing/pushing people from buying apps.
I feel in time, android phones will be more alike, after they find one good setup... But also more people are coming to the adroid phone which will drive the demand for devs, so I feel they will start producing in the near future.
Sent from my netarchy_toast, froyo beast of a machine evo!
werxen said:
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
There are simply too many ****ing Android phones. HTC pulls a phone out of its ass every month - they are literally all the same except different screen sizes, pixel counts, and processors - like its something revolutionary. Its a REALLY stupid marketing design for the long run. Apple, on the other hand, releases something completely new every iPhone while keeping the hardware the same. By this, I mean there aren't 500000 iPhone 4's - just one. With this, developers, especially for games, can focus on 1 platform whereas with Android you have to worry about a mess of hardware issues.
Really, its stupid HTC's fault. They REALLY need to stop releasing a ****ing phone every 2 weeks and focus on keeping the quality of their phones top notch. The Hero was promised so many updates but still lacks all of them.
So yeah developers really giving a **** about Android? Unlikely. If you want games get an iPod/iPhone.
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I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
dag16 said:
I have several friends who design apps as a living for the iphone. I've asked them why they don't do Android apps, and they basically said this exact same thing. With low profit margins and the need to constantly release new apps, it's easier for them to just focus on the iphone because it only has 1 phone, they don't need to change anything for each different phone. Even if android ends up being 60% of the market, that 60% is split over 10 touchscreen phones, while apple has the remaining 40% with just the one phone
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Yeah I don't know why some people in here are doubting my argument like I am making frivolous claims. This is my job - to work in programming and simulations. My boss used to work for EA. He still helps dev teams out with the iPhone. Lots of people on these forums just talk talk talk talk like they know what they are talking about. Sad.
Big companies wont get involved in Android no matter how much it surpasses Apple. Heres why:
That's idiotic. Game development by big players is happening right now. Remember that Android didn't have powerful hardware in a mass market seller until the Droid, which was released only a year ago. Now that the hardware base is full of Evo, Droid X/2 and Galaxy S phones, there's a huge opportunity. Not to mention that Android will likely be the #2 smartphone OS in another year, and probably dominant in the US.
Couple that with the fact that Android is easier to develop for than iOS, and a company would have to have some retarded management to disregard Android.
The person who said they wont get involved because of hardware differences is absolutely correct and its been said its the reason why android has been somewhat held back. When the iphone4 and evo first came out u read that's in an article. The development tools are harder to use also probably due toso many different hardware specs. But it also said that developers think android is the future and will be better than iOS. Eventually we'll see better games but its really does make sense about thee difficulties of turing to develop something on devices with completely different hardware specs. And its not the same as computers because most computers can be upgrades on the hardware front or they come barely good enough to work with a particular software.
Relative Smartphone O/S Market Shares
I can't speak to the relative speed of game development on the respective phone platforms, but I can say that Android's market share gains are pretty formidable. According to the latest reports, Android is closing in on RIM and Apple for smartphone operating system market share in the U.S..
On a worldwide basis, Android appears to be in third place behind Symbian (by a large margin) and closely on the heels of RIM.
I wanted to provide a link to the source of that information, but was not allowed to do so. Thus, I'll simply say that you can find an article called "An Analysis and Valuation of The Success Story Formally Known as Android" on the Zero Hedge website.
I'd be shocked if the top mobile gaming titles weren't available on Android in the foreseeable future.
Hey guys I just found out about an easy way to get the ipad UI.
Takes a few minutes and just a few steps.
1. Get an apple logo and cover the Acer name on the back of your tab and fill all usb, hdmi and sd ports with super glue, because ipads get fustrated with to much ports, or apple will send you to jail and sue your ass for putting ios on another device. Then restart the device.
2. It might take a little longer than normal for your tab to start up because it thinks its and I pad now and is not used to having everything it does controlled and monitored.
3. Once it starts up, in the upper right corner of the home screen you will see a button called, "Apps", click it.
4. Waallaa, you now have the I pad UI.
This UI is great with its huge selection of fully customizable Wallpapers!
Hate notifications? Great you won't see those any more. There only for smart people who like some productivity in their life anyway.
Also like searching through useless apps to find the weather, time or simple email? Then you will love this ui.
This is still in its test stages but so far no bugs have been found!
Download here----> i Like my tab uncustomizable and owned by a communist company v1.0.zip
Haha I thought I'd get some humor in the forums.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
Ah yes, most amusing...
Oh, and it's "Voilà" by the way, not "Waallaa".
You forgot the final step!
Totally forgot the most vital step in this process:
- Sign up for as many tech related message boards as you can - then take it upon yourself to educate the world as to how superior your device is compared to any non-apple device. When people mention things like "ports" and "Working Adobe Flash Support" just put your fingers in your ears and make annoying sounds.
- If available in your area, hit up the local apple "I need a friend" bar, where you can find other people to talk about the superiority of anything Steve Jobs has ever done.
hummmmm
I am totally lost. Guess you gotta have a apple product to understand
giggles
just get the touchwiz and setup similar to iOS///
stay classy monkey10120
stevo9er said:
stay classy monkey10120
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Lol I see what you did there
you know, you'd think that tech minded people would be logical. But that doesn't ever seem to be true.
I have an android phone and iconia tablet. But I don't feel the need to justify my purchase by constantly making up wild claims and trash talking things that aren't what I chose to buy.
Apple makes amazing machines. Anyone who tries to deny that is a short sited fool who just wants to epeen all around the internet to make themselves feel cool.
The only people who talk trash on apple products are the ones who've never used one for more than 30 seconds. So chill out, you just make yourself look like a fool by trash talking something you obviously are not knowledgeable about.
You know why apple locks things out? So your machine works seemlessly and perfectly every time you use it. So that there aren't conflicts between programs or hardware that require constant tweeking to work through, so you have a top quality piece of gear.
example. I have a custom pc I built myself (well several, but my main) is decently fast and constantly being upgraded. It currently has a 2.3 quad core AMD chip with 8 gig of ram. On anything other than gaming my 1.3 dual core, 2gb ram macbook pro leaves it in the dust every time. And I don't have to spend hours constantly working on it to get it to do that. Not once in 6 years have I had a single error, a single bad boot, a single virus, spyware, or even hiccup on the macbook.
So please keep in mind that you look like a tool to anyone who has used both pc and mac and judges a machine on it's reality instead of on the same misrepresenting pile of myths that PC-propagandists have been regurgitating for over a decade.
i like both
Ease of use and stabilty is apples strong suit.
I'm new to droid and have rooted a few devices and recently the a500.
I have experience building computers and am looking forward to all tech and software.
Can't wait for an omap5 tab with dual boot os or tri boot.
Imagine a500 with win8 and icecream.
Bring it. I like options and open source I choose root.
skullkandy said:
you know, you'd think that tech minded people would be logical. But that doesn't ever seem to be true.
I have an android phone and iconia tablet. But I don't feel the need to justify my purchase by constantly making up wild claims and trash talking things that aren't what I chose to buy.
Apple makes amazing machines. Anyone who tries to deny that is a short sited fool who just wants to epeen all around the internet to make themselves feel cool.
The only people who talk trash on apple products are the ones who've never used one for more than 30 seconds. So chill out, you just make yourself look like a fool by trash talking something you obviously are not knowledgeable about.
You know why apple locks things out? So your machine works seemlessly and perfectly every time you use it. So that there aren't conflicts between programs or hardware that require constant tweeking to work through, so you have a top quality piece of gear.
example. I have a custom pc I built myself (well several, but my main) is decently fast and constantly being upgraded. It currently has a 2.3 quad core AMD chip with 8 gig of ram. On anything other than gaming my 1.3 dual core, 2gb ram macbook pro leaves it in the dust every time. And I don't have to spend hours constantly working on it to get it to do that. Not once in 6 years have I had a single error, a single bad boot, a single virus, spyware, or even hiccup on the macbook.
So please keep in mind that you look like a tool to anyone who has used both pc and mac and judges a machine on it's reality instead of on the same misrepresenting pile of myths that PC-propagandists have been regurgitating for over a decade.
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I don't think anyone else before you really need to chill out - you seem to be the only one really riled up about this post. Yes Apple has great hardware, no-one is denying that (apart from the iPad2 camera maybe), and yes we are all aware that Apple locks down their OSs to ensure a smooth experience.
Thing is, this is XDA, and the majority of people on here WANT to be able to tweak their machines to how they see fit. I'm one of those people and it's the main reason I don't have iDevices. If I don't like something I want to change its behaviour, and that's not always possible with Apple devices (at least without having to jailbreak).
Maybe the reason you're acting like a tool on here is because you need a reason to justify spending the extra dollars on your shiny Macbook pro. Yes it works for you, good for you. The minute you come on here calling us short "sited" (sic) fools just paints yourself as someone who likes to epeen around the internet to make themselves look cool and enlightened.
Get a sense of humour. Even the most stalwart of Apple users should be able to admit some of the shortcomings of their devices, as can users of other devices. Or maybe you suffer from the typical Stockholm Syndrome that seems to infect many iFans.
nytrojen said:
I don't think anyone else before you really need to chill out - you seem to be the only one really riled up about this post. Yes Apple has great hardware, no-one is denying that (apart from the iPad2 camera maybe), and yes we are all aware that Apple locks down their OSs to ensure a smooth experience.
Thing is, this is XDA, and the majority of people on here WANT to be able to tweak their machines to how they see fit. I'm one of those people and it's the main reason I don't have iDevices. If I don't like something I want to change its behaviour, and that's not always possible with Apple devices (at least without having to jailbreak).
Maybe the reason you're acting like a tool on here is because you need a reason to justify spending the extra dollars on your shiny Macbook pro. Yes it works for you, good for you. The minute you come on here calling us short "sited" (sic) fools just paints yourself as someone who likes to epeen around the internet to make themselves look cool and enlightened.
Get a sense of humour. Even the most stalwart of Apple users should be able to admit some of the shortcomings of their devices, as can users of other devices. Or maybe you suffer from the typical Stockholm Syndrome that seems to infect many iFans.
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+1!!! Took the words right out of my mouth =D
skullkandy said:
you know, you'd think that tech minded people would be logical. But that doesn't ever seem to be true.
I have an android phone and iconia tablet. But I don't feel the need to justify my purchase by constantly making up wild claims and trash talking things that aren't what I chose to buy.
Apple makes amazing machines. Anyone who tries to deny that is a short sited fool who just wants to epeen all around the internet to make themselves feel cool.
The only people who talk trash on apple products are the ones who've never used one for more than 30 seconds. So chill out, you just make yourself look like a fool by trash talking something you obviously are not knowledgeable about.
You know why apple locks things out? So your machine works seemlessly and perfectly every time you use it. So that there aren't conflicts between programs or hardware that require constant tweeking to work through, so you have a top quality piece of gear.
example. I have a custom pc I built myself (well several, but my main) is decently fast and constantly being upgraded. It currently has a 2.3 quad core AMD chip with 8 gig of ram. On anything other than gaming my 1.3 dual core, 2gb ram macbook pro leaves it in the dust every time. And I don't have to spend hours constantly working on it to get it to do that. Not once in 6 years have I had a single error, a single bad boot, a single virus, spyware, or even hiccup on the macbook.
So please keep in mind that you look like a tool to anyone who has used both pc and mac and judges a machine on it's reality instead of on the same misrepresenting pile of myths that PC-propagandists have been regurgitating for over a decade.
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Wow.
You seem rather upset over a bit of sillyness. Of course apple makes an amazing product - modern phones/tablets are amazing.
So "chill out". You don't want to "look like a tool", right?
skullkandy said:
The only people who talk trash on apple products are the ones who've never used one for more than 30 seconds. So chill out, you just make yourself look like a fool by trash talking something you obviously are not knowledgeable about.
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I've spent countless hours on iPhones, my fiancée owns one, and I have several friends that own them. I've jailbroken them and even taken one apart. I think the phone is a child's toy and would never want to own one. Your assertion has been invalidated by a single individual due to your poor choice of words.
My question is, and I genuinely would love an answer to this. Why are you so defensive about apple products? Are you a designer? If so, that would make sense, I would not want to read about people bashing something I devoted so much effort into. But if not, and again, I genuinely mean this, why are you so defensive?
HAHA nice. When I first saw the thread headline I was gonna slap whoever started the thread thinking it was for real. Very funny! Love the part about super gluing the ports shut.
i guess it's easy in comparison to make your os run smooth when there is no USB support, no ports, etc...
Basic = ios
I knew an apple fanboy would rant on this one, op hilarious howto though
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk
you know how some apple fans are
With the expense of apples tablets/phones - it's no wonder the fanboys get really defensive - no one wants to consider the idea that they overpaid for a device that, quite frankly, is lacking in the features department.
Sure - the IPad is impressive. But once you factor in the lack of ports, lack of adobe flash support, and the locked down nature of the OS - it's a hell of a lot less impressive.
Sure - the IPhone is impressive. But once you factor in the cost, lack of adobe flash support, and the locked down OS - you get the idea...
I would give you more points and arguments. But like usual your only "argument" if you can call it that is "you're a fanboy!!!!" because factual discussion is something you douches are unable to handle....as are every moron who likes to talk trash on apple products without having a clue what they're even talking about.
I choose to use pc for my gaming and android for my mobile devices because they fit what I want them for. But that doesn't mean apple sucks or all the other idiotic things you people say around here. In fact apple makes amazing software and hardware.
I'm only advocating not being a fool and if you're going to talk trash then know what the heck you're saying...which none of you do. It irritates me to no end when people think it makes their e-peen bigger to talk down anything that isn't what they have. It doesn't make you cool, or hip and ironic.
Everyone in the room who hasn't ever used an apple product for more than 15 seconds shouldn't be allowed to open their mouths as they're just talking out their arse to hear themselves speak....oh wait that doesn't leave anyone else here.
skullkandy said:
I would give you more points and arguments. But like usual your only "argument" if you can call it that is "you're a fanboy!!!!" because factual discussion is something you douches are unable to handle....as are every moron who likes to talk trash on apple products without having a clue what they're even talking about.
I choose to use pc for my gaming and android for my mobile devices because they fit what I want them for. But that doesn't mean apple sucks or all the other idiotic things you people say around here. In fact apple makes amazing software and hardware.
I'm only advocating not being a fool and if you're going to talk trash then know what the heck you're saying...which none of you do. It irritates me to no end when people think it makes their e-peen bigger to talk down anything that isn't what they have. It doesn't make you cool, or hip and ironic.
Everyone in the room who hasn't ever used an apple product for more than 15 seconds shouldn't be allowed to open their mouths as they're just talking out their arse to hear themselves speak....oh wait that doesn't leave anyone else here.
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Way to go, dude. Not only did you refer to xda members as "Morons", but you seem to be pretty upset over this thread. The OP was making a silly joke about what is one of the primary advantages of the Acer Iconia Android tablet over the Apple IPad - why does this offend you so much, to the point where you are willing to make a post as rude as the one I just quoted?
Do I think you are taking things way too seriously? Yes, I do. Will I call you a "Moron" for expressing your opinion? No, I won't. However, I think you are getting a little upset over what is intended to be amusing.
If you would like to logically discuss the reasons many users feel the Acer Iconia to be a superior product (again, ports, cost, and flash support are my reasons why I find apple hardware to be useless) - that would be fun! If you are just going to hurl insults via the internet - I would recommend you head over to a forum full of die hard apple fans - you are much less likely to find anything that upsets you or causes you to type a post like the one you just did.
Can we please not have flame wars over nothing!
I have an iPhone and the Iconia Tab, and I find both equally good in their own place. When I purchased this tablet about a month back, I had to choose between iPad 2 and Iconia, and I went with Iconia just because of the reasons mentioned here countless times (the Flash support, full USB 2.0 port, cheaper and generally better hardware). However, before iPhone I was the proud owner of a Samsung Galaxy S, a device that blows iPhone 4 right out the window when it comes to sheer hardware. However, my life is more peaceful since I switched, mainly because I am not flashing ROMs every weekend, looking for better features and builds.
My point is simply this: both Apple and Android have their own merits and demerits. Apple's closed system delivers the easiest and frankly, most convenient user experience. Android, on the other hand, not only features better hardware (generally), but also allows more flexibility in terms of what you want to do with your device and how you want to treat it.
In the end, it all boils down to a user's own preference on how they want to use their device, and what for. No reason to get all worked up about it.
And oh, I'd think twice before calling anyone at XDA a 'moron'. The guys here are the finest you'll find anywhere, and they love what they do, making Android a more pleasant experience for all of us.
P.S. to the OP, hilarious! brilliant idea!
Er.. So, Why did amazon bother to not add the android market, if they aren't going to block loading APKs, or actively try to prevent root?
My mom who knows nothing about android could be walked through that process...
Try asking B&N the same thing?
Amazon thought it through perfectly. They aren't selling or attempting to actually sell a mobile computing device (tablet). They are selling a next gen Kindle (PMP). Have a look at the Nook Color and the iPod Touch, then compare against a Galaxy Tab, Xoom, Thrive, iPad 2, and Transformer. See the difference?
If they wanted the Android Market, Google has strict requirements that would keep amazon from doing all the data mining they want to sell ad data to partners. If you have the Google Android Market on a device you make Google gets all the info..
I think....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
cos they just made so you buy from amazon.com they make a $10 loss on each one, they hope to gain that from selling stuff via amazon.com
natand12342010 said:
cos they just made so you buy from amazon.com they make a $10 loss on each one, they hope to gain that from selling stuff via amazon.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't look like they are taking much of a loss at all according to this study: http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=212876 Making a profit actually.
Mama Luigi said:
Try asking B&N the same thing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been curious about the nook as well.
On the other hand, even if not a lot, I figured they were making a bit more money off of their product than amazon who is potentially using their tablet as a loss leader.
Snow_fox said:
I've been curious about the nook as well.
On the other hand, even if not a lot, I figured they were making a bit more money off of their product than amazon who is potentially using their tablet as a loss leader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's all about "branding" the consumer. The earlier a company can get you to like/use their product the more likely it is you will continue to use them. The AF, by trying to restrict content and funnel only to their "approved" providers they can make dollars on volume. Apple does the same thing by getting their products into schools. Get 'em while their young! lol McDonald's does the same thing. What parent doesn't relent (often enough) to the protestations of their kid lamenting for the latest Happy Meal toy?
Downsides are galore. If a high school senior only knows Apple..they are severely limited in the marketplace (like it as not it's still a MS Business World). McDonald's? Fat kids with poor eating habits...Amazon Only Contest? One loses the richness of choice. See what I mean?
(I just might be a little cynical? lol)
skeeterpro said:
It's all about "branding" the consumer. The earlier a company can get you to like/use their product the more likely it is you will continue to use them. The AF, by trying to restrict content and funnel only to their "approved" providers they can make dollars on volume. Apple does the same thing by getting their products into schools. Get 'em while their young! lol McDonald's does the same thing. What parent doesn't relent (often enough) to the protestations of their kid lamenting for the latest Happy Meal toy?
Downsides are galore. If a high school senior only knows Apple..they are severely limited in the marketplace (like it as not it's still a MS Business World). McDonald's? Fat kids with poor eating habits...Amazon Only Contest? One loses the richness of choice. See what I mean?
(I just might be a little cynical? lol)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're dead on actually. This is a proven marketing method that works so well that various companies are banned from using it (tobacco, alcohol, etc). Apple's variant has been particularly successful because they didn't just get their product out to the kids. They also worked hard to convince the kids that without an Apple product, you weren't cool. Once this took hold, all Apple needed to do was continue to play upon that theme with each later device, as the "cool factor" propagates on its own, both forward and backward across generations. The older crowd by nature wants to appear to be young and hip, and the very young crowd want to appear older and cool. So, Apple wins across the board, from the elementary school almost all the way up to the retirees.
Cobey_S said:
You're dead on actually. This is a proven marketing method that works so well that various companies are banned from using it (tobacco, alcohol, etc). Apple's variant has been particularly successful because they didn't just get their product out to the kids. They also worked hard to convince the kids that without an Apple product, you weren't cool. Once this took hold, all Apple needed to do was continue to play upon that theme with each later device, as the "cool factor" propagates on its own, both forward and backward across generations. The older crowd by nature wants to appear to be young and hip, and the very young crowd want to appear older and cool. So, Apple wins across the board, from the elementary school almost all the way up to the retirees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone 4S is a failure in the sense that it looks like and has the same appearance as the iPhone 4. No discernable COOL factor here. Buyers will have to wear a pin "This Is The 4S"
1215kids said:
The iPhone 4S is a failure in the sense that it looks like and has the same appearance as the iPhone 4. No discernable COOL factor here. Buyers will have to wear a pin "This Is The 4S"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone 1G, 3G, and 3GS all looked identical as well, but that didn't stop shoppers, nor the "cool" effect brought of having an "in" product. The appearance and technical excellence have little to nothing to do with it. "I have an iPhone," on the other hand does, and that's the brilliance behind Apple's variant on the "capture the hearts and minds of the young" marketing approach.
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
Snow_fox said:
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Myself, and the others that I know that are technically inclined are in complete agreement with you. On the flip side, not one of my friends or customers, that use their iPhones as status symbols more than anything else, feel that way. To them, it's a new iPhone, and they want it. Sadly, that bunch easily outnumbers the technically inclined. I feel that is pretty accurate for the market as a whole as well - those that know better are the minority by a long shot.
They thought it through, but with their own concept on reality
No Google market, the low storage and no microsd slot are all by design to force a bunch of lemmings (they appear to think we all are) into their revenue cloud.
Just wait till folks get on the road with these things and find out the cloud only hovers around a wifi connection
IMO, the Flyer is the current best 7" device for price and features. Compared to the Fire:
1. 8gb more storage
2. 512mb more ram
3. The SoC per Anandtech and my own practical tests performs better with Flash, games, video and everything else in between (I also have a Droid 3, which has 512mb ram and 4430 SoC to compare in a practical manner).
4. Microsd slot
5. GPS
6. BOTH markets
7. Install from other sources
8. Camera
9. Better build
The extra $100 seems a very sound investment for most folks.
The Fire IMO is a low end, second rate iPad wannabe, with a UI and storefront model to support it. CrabApple.
Cobey_S said:
On the flip side, not one of my friends or customers, that use their iPhones as status symbols more than anything else, feel that way. To them, it's a new iPhone, and they want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
thatdude90210 said:
But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares? The 4S is released as a mid-range device. Apple has no high-end devices now... They're failing on this release.
thatdude90210 said:
But it looks exactly the same as last year's model. Now in order to feel superior, they have to ask everyone holding one if they have the 4 or 4s. That's a lot of work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One would think, right? Not the case. So far, I have but one iPhone lover that isn't budging on the update to the 4S, 30-40 that are getting it because it's new, and 8 that are converting from Android to iOS and are rather excited to get it.
rushless said:
They thought it through, but with their own concept on reality
No Google market, the low storage and no microsd slot are all by design to force a bunch of lemmings (they appear to think we all are) into their revenue cloud.
Just wait till folks get on the road with these things and find out the cloud only hovers around a wifi connection
IMO, the Flyer is the current best 7" device for price and features. Compared to the Fire:
1. 8gb more storage
2. 512mb more ram
3. The SoC per Anandtech and my own practical tests performs better with Flash, games, video and everything else in between (I also have a Droid 3, which has 512mb ram and 4430 SoC to compare in a practical manner).
4. Microsd slot
5. GPS
6. BOTH markets
7. Install from other sources
8. Camera
9. Better build
The extra $100 seems a very sound investment for most folks.
The Fire IMO is a low end, second rate iPad wannabe, with a UI and storefront model to support it. CrabApple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
Snow_fox said:
Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For what you say, Snow, the AF might well be ideal for what you seek. The again, let's all keep in mind that as of right now, the AF cannot really be considered an "android tablet" but more a "dedicated e-reader running android". That is if/until it is rooted by some of the marvelous devs on XDA.
My money's on the devs. lol
Snow_fox said:
Being totally honest, I must admit I am considering the Kindle fire, but I am waiting to see what else comes out first.
If I *only* wanted a tablet, spending 100$ more on a flyer would be ok.. But, I also have a few other things on my "christmas list" A few ps3 games (infamous2 and resistance3), a new comp case.. (obsidian 650d) and I would like a tablet so I can read manga somewhere besides at my computer screen.
So for me, it becomes an issue of practicality.. How much can I really afford to spend on a tablet in the near future?
I mean sure it *is* limited to the cloud.. however without the internet most devices become borderline useless anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what you use. I have tons of games, videos and emulator roms. Use them while traveling and other area where wifi is no open or available.
This device is as limited as you could get.
As far as rooting, why? There is no space to do anything with it. Breach the Amazon cloud and the functionality is even less. Assuming inflation for my contract manufacturing days for connectors (buyer), the total cost for a sd slot port is 75 cents to add to design (components circuit bridge). This means probably $1.50 applied to sellers to maintain margin.
Could argue that is money they save, but I suggest the lack of one is FAR more costly, since it will sell well until people are savvy to no card expansion and the "forced" cloud use. They should have added the slot, but it is not there by design- they want cloud usage so they can data mine and also get revenue linked to their B class iTunes effort.
For someone not constrained on an extra $100, the Flyer is FAR better for reasons mentioned above (at least). Added: Heck, even my very non-tech wife does not want the Fire, due to no microsd slot. A key reason she also did not want an iPad either.
---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------
Snow_fox said:
Er. Guys.
Let me say the iphone 4s may have failed in a few ways.
1. People expected an iphone 5. Even if it would have the exact same hardware.. people wanted to hear "iphone 5". Apple failed at marketing.. which is big since it is almost more of a marketing company than anything else.
2. A lot of people *were* hoping to see changes. Being totally honest.. the iphone design is tired in a lot of ways. The 3.5" screen is small despite the iphone being almost the same size as a 4" device. The problem is if they raise the size to 4" then it is just going to look gigantic..
Apple is in a bad situation honestly. If they change it, they alienate a lot of fans.
If they don't, the design just keeps looking older and older..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an iPod 4 64gb and like it a lot, but would not have a iPhone, since too constrained for me (ditto on an iPad). Still, the new models have the dual core and a 64gb option. Not too shabby for iPhone lovers who are media and game freaks.
The problem is the "retina display". If they increase the size, ditto on the display res. Probably too costly and not reliable enough for efficient yields from production. Cost curve for a 4" retina is probably evil (for now).
UPDATED 1/7/13
1/7>Added a basic phone model structure layout to this
Hello,
I suppose laying out my business idea for others to take may not be great, but I wanted the communities opinion, since I would start this small and possible not for another year or so. Plus, if someone took the idea, I would be just as glad to see it.
I would like to manufacture two types of phones you rarely see on the market today (if at all)
First type, for the Dev and Tinkerer:
-These phones would be made as cheap as possible, with varying quality. I would like to keep the price as minimal as possible on these phones so that little profit is made, but that way I could get cheap open source devices out to the masses. Whether you want a cheap phone for the kids, or multiple devices for a dev team. Either way, the tricky part will be that I need to know how much to order, because the more I can get the parts in bulk, the cheaper it will be for me to make, and thus, for you all to buy. I am open to any ideas on making the casing, or if anyone has hardware deals or websites that would be good to use for a supplier, that information would be great!
Second type, Luxury:
-I like high quality items. I like fancy packaging, I like products made to LAST. These phones will counter the other devices by price greatly. While the cheaper phones I plan to offer at around $200-400, the luxury phones will be around $ 2,000-4,000. I do plan to profit off of these, but no more than to offset the low price of the cheaper phones. The luxury phones will offer premade designs and models, or more expensive, but entirely custom phones.
I plan to offer a lifetime warranty on the luxury phones. If we cannot fix it, half off a new device. I will also offer a limited warranty as well. I want you to have these devices as long as possible. I want easy to replace screens, modular hardware for upgrades or swapping out the internals but keeping the case (for expensive luxury shells).
The materials for the luxury phones would range from woods to metals like tungsten and titanium. For custom phones we would be open to any ideas you have. This includes extra additions like more buttons or notification LEDs. On phone model I plan for would make use of a set row of notification LEDs and buttons. We will also tailor the AOSP ROM installed on your device to how you want. I hope to be able to hire nice designers to theme the Android operating system to match your custom designed outer design of your phone.
Eventually I would like to venture into tablets yes, and if I start with small, side project type devices, I suppose most would be custom order. If you guys like the idea for the cheap phones I could try for a kickstarter if I can get the suppliers and employees lined up. That way we could order in bulk and deliver cheap devices to the masses.
A bit of me:
The reason why I wanted to do this is because I hate how devices built today are not meant to last. Aside from a few Nokia phones, things just seem cheap, plasticy. I personally would pay extra to have a nice metal shell and reinforced insides to my phone. I want to chose where my power and volume buttons go. I also hate the prices. I think for cheaper phones, we should pay less, and for quality phones, we can afford more.
The last thing, is stock ROMs. I hate them. I love AOSP, and I will work the Open Source feel into all the phones. You will have total control, and hopefully with the help of XDA, you can have a helpful community to help with all issues.I believe in personal costumer service, and if I come back to you in 2 years, I want you to saw your happy you bought a phone my team made, and that you would want to extend the devices life.
If you guys want to help, as questions, post ideas, make comments, feel free!
Basic:
-Price: As low as I can go! ($200-400)
-Internals: Mid range stuff, good enough to run everything smoothly, but the cheapest parts I can find.
-Shell: Possibly 3d printed plastic or other material that are cheap and still durable.
Starting line:
-Price: Around $400
-Internals, same as Basic, but possibly a bit better if requested, or just held in place more securely to survive more drops and beatings
-Shell: Car painting aluminum, steel, or other metals.
(for example http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dockplus/charging-dock-for-iphone-5 it looks plastic, but it's the paint. Very nice finish)
[I plan to offer basic customization options of these, and they may be around $500-600 if need be and could be a "flagship" phone to compete directly with other companies, although I assume the basic model alone will do that]
Luxury:
-Price: $1000-2000
-Internals: the reasonable best. Most likely a quad core processor, high amounts of storage (32GB or so). Internals here will be fairly customizable, possibly even tegra 3 chipsets if requested.
-Shell: TBA. These will be custom made cases, but ones that can be produced more easily, and we won't offer much of customer input for these. Most likely different cases ranging from wood to metal. Later on once we have a designer I plan to actually make drawings and have the community decide on the first wave of Luxury phones. Later I plan to make old custom models into luxury ones.
Custom:
-Price: $2000-4000
-Internals: Whatever they want. The best quality, everything internally will be ruggardized to take a beating. All components will be modular too, hopefully for luxury as well, for easy replacing of parts and screens, so you won't pay that huge up front price again since the case will be the expensive part of these phones.
-Shell: Literally, anything you can dream within realities laws. This is where I plan to have a skilled team, ready to make WHATEVER you want. Want LED trips so your phone lights a whole room the color of the rainbow when you get a text? Sure! Touch back panel? We can try! Extra buttons, yup!
Anything you can think of for a custom phone, we will try and make, and then quote you a price. This is the end goal of the company, and the phone manufacturing will probably start for the basic, and end with the luxury.
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
rj88 said:
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
iytrix said:
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
SouL Shadow said:
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
rj88 said:
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Riyal said:
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
iytrix said:
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, now I see a viable plan starting to form. The only major issue I see is the pricing for custom phones. Of course luxury phones would cost, especially depending on the options. Probably not a HUGE market for these, but they would fall in to the high end of custom phones. For the developer/hobbyist (xda) market you would need a lower starting price, with reasonably priced add-ons. Over $1,000 for a BASIC custom wouldn't work very well. Consider anyone could purchase a dragonboard (qualcomm, snapdragon S4) fully assembled with housing and get access to some basic binaries or source code, for $1,000. Those are developer units.
I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas, I'm actually very interested in this. The biggest hurdle is sourcing the right parts for the right price and targeting the right audience. If those details can be worked out, then it's only a matter of writing up a good business plan, securing investors, and outsourcing much of the basic work for the cheapest price.
I have some additional ideas and a few resources. If your interested and truly serious, pm me and we can talk in greater detail.
-SLS-
I've been looking along one of these lines too - the cheaper custom phones. I've done some research and found that many Chinese manufacturers and some Indian manufacturers use a system where one company provides/facilitates mostly everything in software and hardware which both can be customized within certain limits.
Companies in China using this model has been able to release phones from their home office/workshop with <10 members as family businesses. This business model has been quite successful in developing nations with some of these companies (Micromax/Karbonn) overtaking bigger vendors like LG/Motorola in India. Qualcomm has a program like this I heard is quite popular among these Chinese & Indian manufacturers: https://qrd.qualcomm.com/ I think Mediatek and Spreadtrum also have such programs. You might want to try this to see how much it can help in your model.
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
Nick14 said:
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Very helpful!
I planned to make the cases here. Probably offer 3d printed and polycarbonate options if 3d printing can get me decent cases at a decent rate. I feel like I could give out a few 3d printed cases for free since the big cost is really the printer.
The basic idea would basically be the chinese phones, but it would be local is the US, offering full support and service, plus I would have deals with google so nothing would be shady or questionable like it is with getting the chines devices. Plus everything would be fully open and supported for developers. If you did a crazy hardware mod and messed something up, we would still try and help you out. I really dislike the closed mindset of current companies
Thank you for the help though, very good information. I think at some point it would be nice to poll for what people want from a phone too.
Sent from my KFOT using xda app-developers app
I'd be interested in working with you on the hardware and software. I'm going into computer science later on this year, and I already have experience working with Allwinner chips, as well as some smaller ARM stuff. Shoot me a PM and we can talk.
reply
The very early Smartwatch
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much things like this that we would love to look into once we got a truly custom phone department up. Eventually we would like to incorporate the best ideas into non-custom but still high end phones. SouL Shadow gave you above the best answer to if we can or will do it, and probably not until we had a cashflow going and more people to develop things like that for the custom phones. It's ideas like this though that never get made or done because no one cares to do it but I feel like certain types of people would pay good money to have us build them their ideas with them, plus it will be unique to you, and who else can say they designed their own phone?
SouL Shadow said:
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this statement
I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
Exactly as I put it above. They did not know how to root their own device and needed Modaco to come forward with a root method, and thank GOD for that, as without it you would quickly discover that you cannot download a single thing from the Playstore without it. But root is usually the beginning to better things. It seems like it was the one and only mod. Root was necessary, but custom recovery and a WAY to recover this device is also necessary. You just gave the general population a way to wreck the Mojo, but no way to recover from it. Nice. Feels like this was merely released and that is all. Sort of like "here you go, figure it out". You advertise on the box that this can play your Playstore purchases, but not until rooting. You guys should be rooting these before packaging.
2. Price
I never had an issue with the price, but I know others have. For a "figure it out on your own, we will not assist" type of device, maybe the introductory price should have been $199, and then dropped to $150. I fear the price is driving away potential devs...that is the price of what you are getting. The console is great, and honestly does not need to be included with that controller. It does not have a screen like the Shield. There is no reason why the joystick cannot be omitted and the price drastically lowered...maybe down to Minix Neo X7 pricetag ($130)
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
I saw a blog my someone (I will not mention his name) in which you guys were supposed to send him a Mojo and never did. He didn't care, but was upset because you guys made a promise and backed out. You didn't even contact him again. Not good. These Mojo units should have been handed out to the dev elite to help keep this box alive. If they don't have it and are reluctant to buy it, nothing is going to come of it. Get it? Ohh, and advertising is key for products. I saw you guys talking it up pre-release in trade shows, NeweggTV, etc. Then it is released and nothing. You did make that Ouya announcement two months ago....but the light is dimming. Faster items are on the way and this device is going to be forgotten before it has a chance to be remembered.
It pains me to say it, but I have now too returned my Mojo. Not because anyone talked me into another device, but because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all....is the doom that is the Mojo. No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. What if some rogue app bricked the mojo? What are you going to tell me? Send it to Canada and wait a month for you to flash it? Or do you even know how to do that?
I ended up ordering the Minix Neo X7 (I know the X8 is coming, and will probably get that as well) not because I think it is more powerful (I know it is not) but because there is a world of active development going in for the device and a dozen ways to ensure that I never end up with a paperweight down the road. If it runs emulators/movies/music well that is all I need. I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh.
Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.
AmigaWolf said:
Your unbelievable zektor, first you act like a little child to me because i was saying this for a long time, and you was making stupid posts of how stupid my phone is and how stupid you must be to have a phone like mine, and more.
And now you are saying this, make up your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)
zektor said:
Your phone and your attitude DOES suck. I did not change my mind about that Your stupid posts compound the issue and make the Mojo less desirable...or at least the Mojo forums. Congratulations for that. You should be given a "major award". Your posts have nothing to do with mine. You were just a crybaby because you bricked yours and they had no more in stock to replenish it for you.
As for the Mojo, I still stand my ground that it is the most powerful (currently) Android TV box on the market. That is fact, not me just saying it. It is a shame the way it has turned out however with the lack of support, no development, and a weak forum with only a handful of helpful and encouraging people and one real dipstick (hint, the post above)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh wait i forgot, is it bed time for you little child, Yes i hear your mother yelling that you must go to bed, because you must go to school in the morning.
Sleep tight, and don't let the bedbugs bite.
I agree with zektor I biught this cuz it said was going to be rooted and was good quality but was very disappointed with the extra stuff I had to do. Not for the average person. Hes right the more people the more development from devs amd if it takes mad catz giving some free out to high level devs to make thier product better then they need to hurry up. There used to be a mad catz rep here but ive seen nothing for a while I ciuld be wrong. Maybe cause he has blno answers anymore
zektor said:
I have been a strong advocate of the Mad Catz Mojo since release, and I still think it has the most powerful components of any Android box to date and has a LOT of potential...but I have to come to the realization that the potential is lost on this device for quite a few reasons:
1. Mad Catz does not seem to "know" the device or their end users in this area.
2. Price
3. No advertising, upselling, no dev samples..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.
gwaldo said:
Strange that a week ago you wrote Reasons you SHOULD buy a M.O.J.O.. the mojo hasn't changed,Android hasn't changed, the community hasn't changed.. so what's changed? " because I feel the lack of support, updates, news, development, anything at all"
Well there was an update 2 days ago: http://madcatz.com/4k-coming-to-mojo/
Apart from that, it hasn't changed.
Obviously, it's not a cheap toy like Ouya, so yes less devs and I would agree with you: "No way to get in and install a custom rom (or even stock rom if bricked) is just asking for trouble. "
But I'm guessing, like rooting, madcatz can't do it or release the image due to legal reasons (it's android/nvidia's software) obviously it would be nice if it "leaked".. then yeah sure I too would try more risky stuff..
Price point I think it's great value and a complete package with the ctrlr... ie I don't like the amazon firetv controller, moga etc.
re Advertising etc, I think they are timing it, it's not cheap to advertise.. I'm guessing they are waiting to finish kit-kat/ouya everywhere before doing so? I don't know.. don't really care
"I wish the Mojo was the ultimate answer (in hardware it nearly is for me) but software/development/support ends up being even MORE important than the hardware contained. It's like someone giving you an 8-Core CPU but only providing software that takes advantage of one core. Ugh. "
Madcatz is a hardware vendor, TMK they don't do software... and that's one of their selling point, no vendor lock in.
It's like you bought an Dell laptop and returned it because Dell didn't put out enough patches/upgrade? :silly:
What community mods makes you think your not running on all 8 cores?
I mean you had a good set up... what exactly couldn't you do?
Anyway, I'm still optimistic and it's still early days, MOJO is future proof, it's spec's are still top of the line and will continue to be for a while yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if kitkat/ouya comes out closer to the holiday season.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it was a nice setup and yes, I still do believe there are reasons to buy the Mojo. But, it is not future proof. It is getting older by the day (the Tegra 4) and more and more devices will have the processor (or something more powerful) built in. When that happens, the Mojo will become less exclusive and less desirable. It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.
It's nice to see some news. The 4k support means they are doing something. Not hearing anything for almost 3 months since ouya announcement and kit Kat upgrade has made it hard to have faith in improvements, but it sounds like it may still be coming
What is future proof nowadays things are changing at a very fast pace but I'm in no rush couldn't be happier with my mojo there may be new hardware coming but its not out yet and there is nothing on the play store that this baby won't run at this time horse before the cart
zektor said:
It is also not future proof because the minute you run a rogue app that requires root and it bricks it (or you brick it in any other way) the Mojo is essentially done for. Not having a way to recover from a brick is not something that is acceptable nowadays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!
gwaldo said:
I agree about not being able to unbrick it ourselves is an issue.. but it doesn't make it less future proof IMO.
Having an active community helps.. but with android/nvidia in it, we/I can 'piggy back' on other groups for info ie shield, ouya, other T4 products.
As you may or may not know, there are very few pieces of technology that have stood the test of time.
I can name a few from personal experience here:
Commodore 64
MS Windows XP
Nokia N900 & Maemo(native linux)
The mojo & CTRLR are so versatile, I'm sure I'll still be using it well after it's product lifecycle... that's future proof!
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It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.
zektor said:
It is funny you mention the C64. Not only do I know it...I lived it I ran a BBS for many years and was a part of a demo group in the mid-late 80's for the C64. I know all well how it stood the test of time, and still own and use one (and develop on it) today. It is well documented, I can fix them, mod them (now with SD2IEC and other neat stuff) and they will essentially last as long as the hardware does.
The Mojo IS a cool system, I have never said otherwise in regard to the hardware. But I honestly cannot say that it will stand any test of time...sadly. It is a flash in the pan as compared with the likes of the other items you mentioned, *especially* the C64. It almost feels like blasphemy to put the two in the same sentence
But, Mad Catz could definitely redeem themselves if they became a little more proactive in the area in which the system's target audience resides. Namely HERE, and in other forums concerning Android TV boxes. Maybe some of there techs can get involved in conversations, provide useful tips, and check with their senior technicians regarding in depth questions that we may have. As it stands now it is a ghost town. I wonder if the Mad Catz employees read these forums and chuckle at what suckers we are for buying in. I REALLY hope that is not the case.
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But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.
AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90 hardware was made to last 20 a 30 years, like the
Commodore 64 (and i have one with a floppy drive and a tape drive, and also had Commodore Amiga for years, still have a Amiga 2000 from
1987 and it still works.
But all the stuff that is now made is not made to last, they (the manufactures) want that you buy new hardware every view years, thats why
Android phones only get 1 a 1.5 years of updates if your lucky and then nothing, when a Samsung Galaxy S3 can run Android 4.4 KitKat easily.
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I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.
zektor said:
I can agree with you here. We live in a throw away society unfortunately. However, there are still items that are made to last, but they are "hidden gems" more or less. The vast majority of items are made like garbage, but every once in awhile you find something that is built like a rock. My Canon Powershot S80 comes to mind...which is actually quite a few years old now. Out of the items made today (in terms of these devices) the Minix is build VERY nicely, same with the Ouya. The Mojo is of decent quality, but it still feels like a hollow piece of plastic to me for some reason.
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Computer cpu's are built to last, just in the past they got outdated so fast. These days you can get a new cpu and be good for a very long time and it will outlast any other piece of computer equipment. I've actually never had a cpu go bad. But at the non component level, most consumer electronics have very short shelf life.
AmigaWolf said:
But you forget Zektor nothing nowadays is made to last, back in the 80 and 90.
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I don't agree, there are still companies out there that make great and out lasting products!
They add extra features that others don't, yes it's more expensive but less disposable.. like the SID chip on the C64 and the BT4/USB3,etc on the MOJO... it didn't have to be there and it's really at the manufactures risk/expense because it's their profit margin that it effects.
But it gives the company integrity for not selling out like their cheaper competitors.
I think things now are built for the lowest common denominator and only the brave step out of that.
IE: mobile phones, In Australia, it's next to impossible to buy a new mobile with a keyboard
Anyway, it's interesting