Database Users

Is it just me...

Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?

Nope, it's just you, nobody has never made a thread like this ever in this forum.
Next time put something real in the title.

Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.

IndivisibleP said:
Language in quote cleaned.
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Lolololol its a breath of fresh air seeing someone comment with this much emotion
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

IndivisibleP said:
Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.
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and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.

IndivisibleP said:
INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES
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Sounds like you can't really afford the Xoom. Maybe you should just take it back and get a refund. Yes, I think that's the best course for everyone involved.

DroidzFX said:
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.
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I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.

matdev said:
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.
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Maybe you should do some research because this question has been asked several times. If the same question or statement is mentioned over and over then it becomes classified as *****in. Unfortunately you fell into this category.

I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....

Kcarpenter said:
I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....
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You have to think though, that by not releasing the source.. they are doing their best to avoid some of the issues spoken about previously. Too often manufacturers would like to prey on the uneducated or the early adopters by throwing a half developed piece of hardware out the door, slapping the google android sticker on it.. and then while they profit, they take the good name of Google/Android and drag it through the mud.
Look at the reaction to the original Samsung Galaxy Tab. It was thrown out, with an OS that was not made for a tablet, on hardware not optimized for the design... only to capitalize on the fact that they would be the first out the gate (or at least one of the first). Apple did the same thing, and took their phone OS and blew it up to a larger format. The only reason they succeeded was that they had their system locked down and could ensure that they had a good hardware/software mix. The throngs of iFags everywhere gobble it up because they knew it would be solid enough to satisfy them for a year till the next one comes out and improves on it.
Google is finally learning from Apple in that respect.
By not releasing the sc for HC, they are making sure that they can correct the early issues found with HC in the Xoom, as well as ensure the hardware its installed on meets specific requirements as to not damage their name or their products name. Its not that it wont let it out eventually, but they want to make it as solid as possible before they do. I respect them for that, even if it makes the modding community's job a bit harder in the interim.

Lastly... you can blame the marketing techniques for shady products. Simple people are too excited by shiny products with big words in their advertising, that they get burned by not researching... and those that get burned, cry the most. Those that do their due diligence and research, only blame themselves when they get burned because they overlooked a mistake or failed to prioritize features.

matdev said:
Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?
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Can you give us some more details? Like, did you root your xoom or are you experiencing all of these force closes on a clean xoom that you just got 2 days ago? Did you throw an image on there, sideload a bunch of apps, etc....
Off Topic...
Many people do not understand when they try to compare the Xoom to a polished product like the iPad that the iPad OS has been around for a while before the iPad even came to market (iTouch, iPhone) and developers had already enough time to work with iOS so when the iPad was released there was not that much difference besides the new screen real estate that they had to adjust their apps for. When the iPad first came out there were some bugs, apps had that BS 2x until they were optimized for the iPad, etc...The Xoom is a brand new product that is sporting new hardware and a brand new OS that developers have not had the opportunity to work on until just recently so if "you" are not an early adopter then please buy an iPad. And if you are going to complain about the price of the Xoom compared to an iPad 2 then please explain how many 16GB WiFi only models are selling for the same price right now as a Xoom.

The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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What? You realize android is the most used smartphone platform worldwide right (ignoring sybian)? If that isn't market penetration I don't know what is.
The API differences from 1.6-2.3 are so minor that application compatibility is really a non issue between operating systems. The only issue is hardware differences really.
Ask the average Joe user what version of android or IOS they are using and they'll ask you "what?". Only the power users ***** and moan about these relatively minor OS updates because they always want the latest thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Are you rooting for Android to fail? You know they do have Windows based phones if you don't like android ones. No one is forcing you to buy anything android. This is not a hate forum so unless you actually own a xoom and have a general question/statement regarding the xoom/honeycomb then why not just go find a "I hate android/linux/capitalism" forum.

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Really? You must have been on a deserted island for the last couple years. My Xoom running Honeycomb works just fine. Someone needs to start a thread titled ***** here so you guys can get together share what type of tampons you prefer.

How is the Motorola Xoom? The best, or not?

I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.

I paid a 1000$ for mine and I am very happy.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

Based on what I read in another thread about some bugs in HC, I've decided to either wait for a Google produced tablet with HC or stick with Apple and wait for an iPad with a higher res display. I know Google and Apple take good care of their customers with updates, support and bug fixes so it won't be a worry to me. The carriers and other manufacturers tend to be greedy and slight their customers. I won't take a chance on them.

MartyLK said:
Based on what I read in another thread about some bugs in HC, I've decided to either wait for a Google produced tablet with HC or stick with Apple and wait for an iPad with a higher res display. I know Google and Apple take good care of their customers with updates, support and bug fixes so it won't be a worry to me. The carriers and other manufacturers tend to be greedy and slight their customers. I won't take a chance on them.
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The xoom is a google experience device. Its like the droid of tablets.
Sent from my Motorola Olympus

MartyLK said:
I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.
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What test blew the Xoom away?

MartyLK said:
I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
...
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+ The Android OS is more friendly for everyday use. I owned a iPad, loved it, but when I got the Xoom, I realized that a tablet could be way better To say it simply, with honeycomb you have everything at hand with a simple touch, while on the iPad you have to browse through many screens to get things done. Huge difference if you want to use a tablet more productively and not for incidentally browsing, reading etc.
For example:
Picture this, I have four very active email accounts. I have a widget for each of them on my desktop. When I want to check my mail I just press home and I directly see the the new messages in each mailbox. On the iPad I first had to open the mail app and then I had to click on each of the different mailboxes to see the new messages. What a usability difference....
And this is just one example. I think Android tablets will definitely be a tough competition for the iPad. Didn't expect that till I did the switch myself. Lot of potential.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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+1
The only comparison tests i've seen the xoom won! Unless of course you mean the hype/BS test on the iforum site.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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The synthetic benchmarks that anandtech ran that every Steve worshipper in the land uses as ipad 2 purchase validation.
It showed the tegra as sort of lacking in the graphics department. Personally, I didn't buy a xoom to play games, I have a PC and PS3 for that.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

MartyLK said:
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.
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My 2 cents for you, I looked at the Xoom simply as something to use while 'someone' is on my laptop for hours at a time. My nice new Dell Win7 laptop cost a little more than a Xoom, and it does so much more, so I personally don't look at the Xoom as a "PC replacement". It's something I plan to use at home mostly. I bought the WiFi only one because I didn't want to be tied to Verizon for 2 years, because we really don't know how long Moto is going to put the effort into the Xoom. I don't want to potentially be paying Verizon a monthly fee for a lightly/none supported product in months 12-24 down the road.
The clamor about "Xoom has no apps" is total BS. Having 10,000 apps that make fart noises isn't something to tout. Not everything is perfect, but I'm the type that wants to personalize my device. I think Ipad has it's place as does the Xoom. People that bash either just have incomplete lives with nothing better to do. In my opinion, Ipad is more mainstream, it's what the 'unwashed masses' will flock to, because it has a consistent and simple interface, stability and requires the person to be less involved with 'setting things up'.
I'm not a 'media intensive' person...I could give 2 ****s how Youtube works on the Xoom. I have not tried the HDMI output yet, but in using 'TV' apps I'm happy that I have the option, if I take a trip where I have WiFi that I can stream music/video (I don't care that it's not in 1080p, I can live without it on even a 6 hour trip). I'm intelligent enough to read the postings here, to find apps that let me stream Dexter Season 5, which is NOT out on Netflix yet, so THAT was cool to me. I did try the NHL.com Gamecenter streaming of live games and it worked pretty good.
Also, I have an EVO through Sprint, so for $30 a month I can activate it's HotSpot feature and get unlimited data. So in my mind, if I really want to use it 'away from home' for whatever reason someone has I can also turn on/off the Hotspot feature whenever and they prorate the $30/mo to the day. So if I turn the feature on/off for 5 days in the month, it costs me $5 for that month. I could decide to be lazy too, and just leave it enabled all month, and I think that's a better deal than a 2 year contract w/ Verizon with a monthly data cap. Of course what I am doing requires 'effort' that so many people just don't want to put into things.
To me, I guess having the 3/4G options would be nice at times, but really, where outside of Home does a person really need to whip out their tablet? You going to take it to a movie or dinner, or to the ballgame? If so, why did you pay to attend something and then stick your face in your tablet? Or if you are on a bus/train, why don't you just stick a big "please rob me" sign on your back? If you are using it for 'work' chances are that you need to use it for more than a few minutes and likely for data intensive things, so your likely only going to be 'working' someplace with WiFi....if your company doesn't have WiFi (like mine) that's probably a sign that you employer doesn't want your WiFi device at work

@ austonja, well stated, now this was one of the best replies I have read in a while.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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3d tests. but apple is vying for top mobile gaming platform so you can see why.

I think you are asking the wrong question. Of course the Xoom is not the BEST...but then NO product fulfills that criteria for me. The Xoom is excellent. I enjoy it greatly, and there are reasons I picked it over the other options which are still valid. I am satisfied with my choice, but it was a choice, and given slightly different thinking, I am sure I would have been happy with the iPad 2 or the other new Honeycomb tablets when they arrive. I personally think you would not regret a Xoom purchase...but that is just my opinion.

Xoom is decent, but its just the hardware. Before the end of the year I'm sure we will be seeing some great devices that will trump the xoom. Also 2012 I'm sure will be a very exciting year for tablets. Very excited to see what will happen
If now talking about Honeycomb, I believe from what I see is so far the best. Once it get its kinks worked out and we go through a few updates Honeycomb will be the best OS out there for tablets. Honeycomb>IOS>Palm(HP)>blackberry qnx

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
http://blog.laptopmag.com/ipad-2-graphics-performance-blows-away-motorola-xoom-original-ipad
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/982268-ipad-2-gpu-blows-away-other-tablet-gpus-including-the-xoom/
http://www.getlaptopreview.com/lapt...e-blows-away-motorola-xoom-original-ipad.html
http://www.tablets.com/uncategorized/the-ipad-2s-powervr-gpu-blows-away-competition/
http://techscrunch.com/tablets/ipad...hz-dual-core-cortex-a9-and-powervr-sgx543mp2/
http://phonegear.eu/ipad-2-graphics...way-ipad-1-and-tegra-2-powered-motorola-xoom/
http://appmasters.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/ipad-2-graphics-blow-away-all-other-tablets/
http://androidforums.com/general-ta...-2-these-14-example-have-changed-my-mind.html
http://www.toteo.com/tech-gadgets/2012-ipad-2-graphics-much-faster-than-ipad-1-motorola-xoom.html
http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/25/ipad-vs-ipad-2-graphics-performance/
http://felixonline.co.uk/preview/tech/1100/ipad-2-blows-away-rivals/
http://www.digitalninjastl.com/blog...d-2’s-graphics-the-infinity-blade-test-shows/
There are many more that came up in Google search but I got tired of listing them all.

Eclair~ said:
None of those sites you listed performed the test again and some of them were simply just forums discussing the information Anandtech presented to us. They only posted Anandtech's graphs and reported the information back again. Therefore it was still "one review" and the fanboys can still say "Just one review!". I'm not trying to be negative, I get your point and what you were trying to prove. The iPad 2 is more powerful than the Xoom and anyone who claims otherwise is... in denial, or a fanboy.
You sound kinda hostile.
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Sorry about sounding hostile. It isn't meant. I have had a bad day already. Having been infracted for responding to hateful people and those very same people have not been infracted. When you are an innocent person who wants nothing more than to express views and allow others to express their views and you get accosted for it, it leaves you with a seriously jaded view of life and humanity. It makes a person hope there truly is something to the 2012 myth because I've had my fill of the hatred people love to spew.
As far as the iPad2 goes, I wouldn't buy one of those either. I don't like looking at highly visible pixels on a screen. The iPad2's 1024x768 res is just way too low for this day and time. I did love the display of the Xoom and was yearning for a Xoom...until I was reminded it would be supported by Motorola. But I did read a post that said Google would be updating the Xoom. If this is true...and I'm trying to get confirmation of this in another thread...I may yet acquire a Xoom. As I said, though, I won't get one through or locked to carriers. It would be the full-priced one with WiFi only.

Eclair~ said:
I do hope that when a Honeycomb tablet beats these benchmarks that it receives just as much press.
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when that happens i hope there are some games that make having that horsepower useful. as of right now i don't think there are any games on the android platform that would benefit. that would be as crappy as paying for 2 cpu cores but having apps only utilize one...

The iPad is a finished product. It's a good one, too. (My wife has the iPad 1.)
The Xoom is not finished, and it approaches the new iPad already.
The iPad is never gonna suck, but it's pretty obvious the Xoom has the potential to kick it's ass. However, I have very little faith that Google, Motorola or Verizon will bring it to that point. We'll need to rely on the Android development community for that.
In my opinion, the only time a Xoom will ever be really great is when it's rooted and has a custom ROM installed.

MartyLK said:
The sad part is, I predicted someone would waste their time to say that. It seems people would rather post negative light about others than useful information.
The *reason* why I posted all of those was because the fanboys would come back and say, "Aha! Just one review! That doesn't mean anything!"
However, knowing that someone would complain that all of those links weren't needed, I chose that direction rather than allowing the fanboy/girls a voice.
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Are you for real? Go back and read all of your posts in this thread.
You posted that many links to show how people reported on the ONE benchmark? What does that have to do with anything? Not one of those sites re-ran or even confirmed the benchmark themselves, so it is relavent to point out that you could have and should have posted only one link.
You're trying to find fault for some reason in a product you don't own and then post it on the forum. You have to see why this might make me thing you're trolling for no reason.
If you don't like Motorola based on one forum post, that's fine. If you don't like the Xoom based on one test, that's fine. If you don't like it because you actually tried it and tested it for a long time, that's another story. Posting links we have all seen (weeks ago), doesn't help anyone on this forum or help anyone decide to/not to buy something that you don't even own.
Just how I feel about this whole thread.

Psychokitty said:
The iPad is a finished product. It's a good one, too. (My wife has the iPad 1.)
The Xoom is not finished, and it approaches the new iPad already.
The iPad is never gonna suck, but it's pretty obvious the Xoom has the potential to kick it's ass. However, I have very little faith that Google, Motorola or Verizon will bring it to that point. We'll need to rely on the Android development community for that.
In my opinion, the only time a Xoom will ever be really great is when it's rooted and has a custom ROM installed.
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That's the problem with Motorola products, the BIOS and bootloader are locked. The only time a custom ROM can be flashed is if it's based on an official Motorola ROM. That's one of my biggest concerns about Motorola. They hinder the XDA community from doing their magic on Motorola devices. If Google releases an updated Honeycomb ROM that deals with bugs and provides performance enhancement, the XDA community can't use it on Motorola devices until Motorola makes an official ROM out of it.

MartyLK said:
That's the problem with Motorola products, the BIOS and bootloader are locked. The only time a custom ROM can be flashed is if it's based on an official Motorola ROM. That's one of my biggest concerns about Motorola. They hinder the XDA community from doing their magic on Motorola devices. If Google releases an updated Honeycomb ROM that deals with bugs and provides performance enhancement, the XDA community can't use it on Motorola devices until Motorola makes an official ROM out of it.
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The Xoom is completely unlocked. Unlocked bootloader (with standard sdk tools you can unlock it), and there are no signature checks, at all. We can modify the xoom software however we want.
Learn your facts before you post.

Received a Response from Acer regarding locked bootloader

Good news everyone!
In an earlier thread (the [DEV] Recovery/Config thread), I mentioned that my company has a large corporate account with Acer and I was going to work my contacts to try and contact Acer and bring attention to the bootloader issue.
In my initial message to them, I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being "hostile" to the development community, reputations that the Xoom and the Transformer do not have. Specifically, I stated we needed the kernel source, which they're required to provide per the GPL, and for the bootloader to be unlocked so that we could load custom recovery and images. I told him that several people have stated they have returned the Iconia because it wasnt friendly for development, and that the developers and "power users" in this community have a vested interest in seeing development thrive and seeing the device succeed. I had two contacts with Acer I had hoped would garner a response.
Today, I received a response from one of those contacts, the Senior Product Manager of Notebooks, Tablets and Netbooks for Acer America.
While I can't post his contact information or the full text of his response (he was not empowered to speak publically on behalf of the company), he was able to share a bit of information with me that I can relay.
To summarize:
- Acer is aware of the community's reaction to the locked bootloader and unreleased kernel. They saw what went on with HTC's bootloader fiasco and they are now discussing their policy internally.
- They view the perception of the Iconia in the Android development and enthusiast community as very important.
- While he couldn't give me any specifics, he did reassure me that he is actively working with his team to find how quickly they can address the bootloader/kernel issues with the Iconia and what specific actions they would take.
So they are aware of the issue and they are working to correct it. He gave me both his work and personal contact information and he said he'd keep me posted of updates.
My personal guess is that there is more involved in the decision than just the Acer America team, but at least they're aware of the negative perception and they're taking steps to correct it.
I'll keep you all advised as I find out more, but I'm happy to see progress being made! There's still hope yet.

excellent, I believe there is an open petition thread (in general) that you may want to forward on to him, might give more ammo with the higher ups!
Good work my friend!

That's an encouraging response, kudos to Acer for hiring the guy. Too many times you get the basic canned response that goes something like "we know what we are doing, so suckit and deal with it". And good job, Fumetsu, on what sounds like a well thought out and worded request for info in the first place.
This give me hope that I'll be able to get flash-happy with my A500 in the future, even though I bought it knowing that I would probabaly be getting something else later in the year. Honeycomb just doesn't have all the dev potential that I've seen with my GTab, Nook, and Inspire...... but one can always dream.

Very good news indeed. I just want to be able to use stock Honeycomb, or Ice Cream Sandwich when that's available, without all the 'extra' software and apps that are generally unnecessary. From a business view it seems like they could have saved quite a bit of money and time if they had left the bootloader unlocked in the first place. All they would need to do is host their own update files online for people that want them and leave the rest to the Dev community. Just my thinking anyway. I feel like there is a large enough user base in the Android community that would justify an unlocked bootloader. I guess all we can do is wait and see what happens. =)

Nice. Thanks for your effort. Hope they do listen to Iconia users!!!
Enviado desde mi A500 usando XDA Premium App

Thanks all. Although he was light on specifics it was a very encouraging response. I just hope they move fast, the market is growing rapidly and dev interest can wane for the "next big thing " and Acer can find itself trailing in the market, even if it has better hardware and potential.

nice, let's keep our fingers crossed for this.

i hope that something will happen soon ...

Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia

Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+

Where I come from we say:
Those who live in hope dies shi**ing ... :-D
But I also hope that bootloader will finally unlocked
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App

acer driver page updated
On acers driver page they have in the last day or so added some content tabs. A place where os and updates will put available. So I do think they have some plans on atleast giving available to d/load recovery is and updates.I beloved this will come wyen or soon after they begin pushing 3.1 to our devices.everyone has spoken I think now its time tobsee if Acer comes thru.
Keeping gentle and responsible pressure in then not bashing and sending threats is prob best.
Just my two and ¼ pennies. Thanks all in the community
Blonde geeky chic
Erica renee

Pure speculation here... I think that I read somewhere that AT&T will be releasing an Acer Iconia Android a501 tab soon. Could that be why Acer has this policy? After all, AT&T is notorious about this sort of thing. My Atrix and I know this all to well.

My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.

look here and join as much as possibile!
http://www.facebook.com/?m2w#!/home.php?sk=group_149462058455870&ap=1
Cross the finger me too...

The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello!
Just to clarify, I didn't bash the Iconia or Acer itself, only that it is perceived as "hostile" to 3rd party developers. I actually took that "hostile" quote directly from a developer on these boards and compared development efforts with the Xoom and the Transformer. I made sure to stress that we have a vested interest in the success of 3rd party development on the Acer so that its perception as developer friendly in the community could be improved.
My initial contact and his response were cordial and respectful, so I don't believe he took it this way. I structured my contact with him stating that I felt the Iconia was a great product, had benefits the other Android tablets do not, has the distinction as of now being the fastest selling Android Honeycomb tablet, and that developers are eager to work with the device. He was quite clear that he valued the feedback and they wanted to and are working to address it.
We exchanged personal and business contact information so it was definitely a positive response.

mr.r9 said:
Can you tell him to (cough) leak something (cough)?
I had the Acer Liquid and we used to get leaks like crazy. But nothing for the Iconia
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't want to risk his position within Acer by asking for a leak. I told him that I would redact his contact info and would not directly quote his response because he is a business contact for my company and I don't want to jeopardize that relationship or get him in trouble with the company. He was clear that they know it is an issue and that he personally was working with his team to find out the best way to resolve it in the quickest manner possible. Knowing how big corporations work, it's not up to one man or I believe even Acer America itself, but I surmise there are higher level talks going on. His team is directly responsible for product development of tablets and netbooks and I believe he is in a prime position to move Acer towards resolution.

diamond_cbr said:
Hello
Very good news, I hope it's not only a commercial response
@+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It definitely wasn't a canned commerical response that one would get from T1 Acer Tech Support. If it was something I felt was said just to placate me or was just a generic statement, I would not have bothered posting this to get everyone's hopes up. It really gave me encouragement that they do see this as an issue and that he does want to help.

The_Monkey_King said:
My two cents:
1) it's really not a good idea to start of a conversation with someone you want to give you a welcoming response with "I informed them that Acer has a reputation of being hostile to the development community." You don't want to kiss their ass but you certainly don't want to tell a company that everyone hates them and then expect them to do something nice for you.
2) Market penetration versus market stability. Right now Acer has a product that is readily available. Reviews have been mixed. (I ignore the ones who ***** about weight because 0.2 ounce difference is two quarters and three dimes in weight. Grow a f*cking pair biceps, you wieners.) But CNET and all the other mainstream reviewers claim that an iPad (not iPad II) and the Asus Transformer are the better deals.
But let's be honest about the responses. Sure, iPad is a gimme because it's a hip, cultural thing. Just like telling some kid that Pabst Blue Ribbon beer is **** will not get them to change brands as long as it is perceived to be "cool." So forget the iPad. As for the Transformer? Sure you can have an unlocked bootlader and new snazzy 3.1 roms, but who besides the true fanboy has one of them? They won't have stock until October of this year, and then it will be newer more powerful models coming out. The majority of people have bought a computer (desktop) and a cellphone and that's as far as they go in tech. Sure you have an iPhone but do they really use it for computing and service? They load the apps that their kids told them to. Acer can fill this gap by doing one or two things in the immediate future that could lock them into a top spot: drop the price of A500 by $40 or, work with the telcos to build and ship the next gen, wireless tablet. They are not going to drop the price because the units are selling enough that some bean counter says it competes with the other tablets in the market. But this would be an issue if Asus had their **** together and had the Transformer in plenty of stock.
This is the reason for the locked bootlader. If companies plan to add wireless to the next gen (or rev) tablets, they will get a lot of attention from the telcos. The phone companies do not, I repeat, do not want unlimited broadband connectivity. These are the same people who still charge for cell-phone texts. Why? Because they can and they know people will go over limits. Limits and exceeding them rack in the dollars. And they have millions of dollars set aside to keep their limits (profits rolling in).
If the broadband wireless next version of the Acer is different enough in Honeycomb 3.1 than the A500, then they might release an unlocked profile for the small group of XDA developers and those that read this forum. For the general population (and the large amount of sales), telcos want locked systems so that metered broadband is the norm. But if there is any way of porting and unlocked A500 to the wireless model, I don't think they'll do it. Also, it shows good faith to the telcos that they are already in step with them about creating limits on the user base. The phone companies will show favor to locked systems over the others. And that's the second choice Acer already made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't the Xoom went through the same thing regarding being released through a carrier with a catch of having to activated a plan? ... and later on got unlocked bootloader straight from MOTO ?
http://www.androidcentral.com/unlocking-motorola-xoom-bootloader-forums
Each ones has its own potential... yet ruined by marketing greed... ( carriers $$$ gouging ) ...etc... ^^$$$^^
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20029411-1.html
I'm an Iconian "TYPE A" BTW
could you please sign it/vote it ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1102690
"Strength in ###"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...

Ask him why they haven't released the source yet, please.
To remain in compliance with the license, they'd have had to release it the same day as the bins. :|
I'm really starting to wish I waited for the transformer.

has nothing to do with the a500 but...

So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx

grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link to the device?

You'll probably have more luck in the General Android area than here. Or even on AndroidTablets.net

Try out Slatedroid
http://www.slatedroid.com/
They have info on the chinese tablets
MK

A word of warning. Chinese vendors have recently released a multitude of tablets that look nice on the outside and act nice when you first turn it on. The problem that's been floating around the internet is that they often die after a few days. These are cheap imitations of the real thing.
Please stay away from these products. Buy from legit vendors or retailers. The last thing we want is to encourage these counterfeit/fake companies to expand.
Added by edit.
First, it was the Iped. Now, it's the Apad. There's also the Superpad. There's a reason they name them so closely to the Ipad.
I don't mean to put down foreign companies. But we really do have to watch out for these fake tablets.

GS-708 tablet
grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.

honeycombflytouch3 said:
ww. Apad.tv forums has a thread on this tablet. It is original and nothing about it is fake. even the iPad is made in China as is probably the iconia. Probably not the best place to post as people are iConia A500 owners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is why I said I am not dissing foreign products. I fully understand that most things these days are made in China. But there's a difference. Products with legit names have (hopefully) better quality control.
Again, why in the world would a product brand named almost a perfect immitation of a real thing that's popular? Iped. Apad. Superpad. Etc. If a product can stand on its own silicon feet, then let it. If it needs to imitate to sell, then chances are it's got something to hide.
People often try to talk me down when I share my concern. So, let me repeat. I have no problem with products made in China. I do have a problem with these companies that are springing up all over China that pay little attention to quality control and sell their products through cheap imitation of real popular things. We as consumers need to stop supporting these immoral practices by staying away from these cheap imitations.

Fair enough. for the most part a lot of rogue sellers on B2c platforms, and auction sites do not qc products before shipping - this does not mean the product is inferior: it comes down to how the seller qc's / tests / describes product before shipping.
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3

honeycombflytouch3 said:
It is not fair to make assumptions about company qc. ChinaGrabber.com is actually a USA site if you do a who.is search.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I am not dissing everything that comes out of China or embracing everything that comes out of the US. There are honest to god legit US companies that have been created for the sole purpose of having an American sounding name and American base to sell Chinese, often inferior, products. An example of this is the company called Augen based in Florida. I'm sure many of you have heard of the Augen gentouch series. These are really cheap tablets that pretty much have everything that's wrong with them. Quality control is nonexistent. Tech support is nonexistent. The screens are made of plastic instead of glass.
For a time, I was curious enough to look into this company. What I found was that this so-called company name Augen has exactly 7 employees, including the so-called CEO. The company base is in a hotel suit. So, I went a step further and bought one of their products. I then pretended to be a complete dummy and called their "tech support". I asked some questions that any newbie dev would know. It was painful to listen to the guy's half-cooked answers. Let just say he didn't even know what a kernel was.
Augen is now selling what they call their espresso series. Very shiny pieces of plastic. Completely not worth anything at all.
The point is again let me repeat myself. We as consumers need to discourage such immoral practices in the trade by staying away from these fakers. Yes, most of them are from China. But there are a number of them who are based here in the US. And I am convinced they are all over Europe as well.
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
Lastly, many people on the apad.tv forums, including myself, have bought the "Branded" iBex Flytouch3.
ChinaGrabber is also a supporter of the forum so if their products have quality issues, including iBex tablets, I am sure people would be complaining. For the most part, I have only seen positive reviews.
The GS-708 is a new tablet so it will probably be a while until people get it and review it.
HCFT3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!

On a side note
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.

entropy.of.avarice said:
This kind of business practice reminds me of "mockbusters" - movies named after the most popular moves of the moment to hopefully convince people to waste cash on some b rated crap by misdirection. I spent two weeks of research before buying my Iconia - easy to see how if i had not done my homework I could have been totally ripped off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. When pirates of the carribean 2 came out, a soft porn movie came out called "pirates". Being a zombie fan, I've seen dozens and dozens of cheap budgeted movies with very similar names to high budgeted movies.
We need to stop endorsing these practices with our money.

Hey folks, I have to agree.
I bought a couple of inexpensive Chinese tablets on my tablet journeys. One was the Haipad M701-R that wasn't so great so I sold it. The other is my current 7" cheapie: a Rena3 that is actually an okay piece in most respects, but suffers from poor video playback due to shoddy support by the manufacturer with no promise of...anything to fix it anytime soon or...ever maybe.
What you save in money you lose in ongoing support, even with the better built ones.
The closet full of coding slaves the small companies have is only good for a couple of firmware revisions at best before the next big device they want to sell has to be coded for.
REAL support ends up being through the community in the form of someone in the know creating custom firmwares for these cheapie tabs, if you are lucky.
IF
The satisfaction level with my a500 is through the roof by comparison, and the firmware came down the line on it's own and WORKED.
PRICE IS NOT VALUE

grhand82 said:
So I was looking @ chinese devices and I saw this one at chinagrabber.com and would like to know what u all think. Its called the gs-708. I want a tab that runs gingerbread with decent specs, duel cameras and supports 3g and sim cards. Advice is welcome. Didn't know where else to post this. I know the nookis an easy device to root but imlooking for a device with a little more to offer. Idealized there will be little to no device support but I am learning to work with devices.
Here's the link.
http://chinagrabber.com/gs-708-cell...---android-2-3-tablet-pc---3g-flash-10-4.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would warn anyone off ChinaGrabber.
I bought a Flytouch 3 10" tablet from them.
The GPS was locked to Chin.
The battery lasted 1 hour after charges, and later on the charge would not 'take'.
Finally the battery exploded, destroying the tablet and filling the room with toxic fumes.
ChinaGrabber's answer to the GPS and battery was to send me to some dumb forum and I was told to try the things posted there.
When I did try them and told them it didn't work they told me that doing these things invalidated my warranty.
PayPal (the scamming bastards) upheld my payment guarantee complaint, but then reversed their decision - they said to get the refund I had to send the item back in the condition I received it, I told them it was melted, cracked and burnt from the exploding battery, they said it's either condition-I-received-it, or no refund, then cancelled the entire claim on me.
Don't buy ChinaGrabber, don't use PayPal..

Check out the Rena3. It is a dual core tablet with a &

I've owned a couple of the cheaper Chinese tablets...one M0003 7" and a 7" rockchip tablet. I gotta say, that while it was fun to take them both apart and dork around with the insides, the fact that I ended up needing to take them apart to fix them should be a good indicator of quality control. The touchscreen went out on the first one, and while I could still use it with a mouse, it was useless as a tablet and the second had a shoddy joint at the battery and I had to resolder it to keep it going. After those experiences, I decided to go with a better name and got a Gtablet. Still have that and its ticking away like clockwork. My 6 year old uses it to play Angry Birds and watch videos every day. I got my A500 for my daily driver and have not been disappointed at all. I don't think I will ever buy another knock-off tablet again. The use-ability just isn't there, and the QC is questionable at best. My advice is if you want something with 3g capabilities, try to find a used Xoom or A501 on Ebay or something, cause even used it will be a better choice than a no-name.

goodintentions said:
If the name sounds almost like something really popular, best to stay away from it.
If a product is legit and is able to stand on its own, then name it something else. Boycott!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear that. The iPed was an obvious one.
But, Apad, which is in the GS-708 title is a word that discribes a Chinese Android Running tablet pc or "Android pad" or A pad. Do not think that sounds like anyting mainstream.
You guys are right to always do research on a product before buying it. I think this is why the OP posted thread.

ConsoleOS

There is a project to build a dual-boot version of Android (currently in Kickstarter) which is planned to be release on all the major Windows Tablets. It look interesting, i just wish they had a working beta.

Looking at the video its just Android X86 and a demo/benchmark running on the back.
Typical KS vaporware, and the guy plans to charge you every year to use what's basically a repackaged OS made by the community.
Totally not a scam...

Yeah, making a free OS into a dual-boot paid OS is a non-starter, excuse the pun. The KS video pitch took about 30secs to trigger my BS meter. It's the downside of KS; easy money from the gullible will always attract sharks.
Liliputing has a piece on some Chinese tab vendors offering drop-in Win8.1 FW for Android tabs,
http://liliputing.com/2014/06/chine...ing-windows-8-1-firmware-android-tablets.html
It's not yet dual-boot, but it's probably a precursor, given now that x86 Win8.1 and Android can run on the same hardware base. Kudos to Intel.
The surprising thing about the offer is the link to download Win8.1. As noted in the piece's comments, I'm wondering how the licensing is handled. Despite the fact that 8.1 is now free for small tabs, 8.1u1's licensing scheme still hasn't changed AFAIK. I doubt that the tab in question has an OEM key, so it's probably unlicensed, and needs "creative" means to activate. Regardless, it's a positive step for platform interoperability.
I'm waiting to see what this year's crop of And/Win mini-tabs will be like. Am hoping for improved connectivity (read: more ports), but looks like the improvement will be in price, with median starting price from $150-200, or $100 less than last year. That's a pretty huge drop. Am holding out for at least a dedicated charging port, to free up the USB.

Yeah, consider the irony of Microsoft cutting Win8 licenses to just $15 and making it free for tabs smaller than 9" while this guy pretends to charge you $10 not once but EVERY YEAR for something you can download and install for free right now.
What I don't understand is why the community and the press aren't denouncing this guy, the way things are going he's probably going to reach his goal

OS
Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...

>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.

100% True
I agree with you.. I used one chines tablet which is dual boot; truth i hate the performance and switching..
Yesterday Mr. Gary guided me to install the Android 4.2.2 on my Windows, which is running very decent.. I love the performance till now.. Its working above VM and size around 300MB which is very most important for me.. He said adb, debugging they are working it will be added soon.. looking forward..
I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
e.mote said:
>Dual boot is pain, if something which is working on Virtual Machine that makes me happy...
Yes it is, which is why people who want dual-boot is a tiny minority. Console OS purportedly has a hypervisor, which presumably will run beneath both OS'es, and allowing "instant switching." Purportedly, it will be made to run in devices with only 2GB RAM, has "user-friendly" install, is "bulletproof" and "production-ready" Android, and will have access to Google Play, Amazon App Store, etc. Oh, and it'll have all sorts of goodies in the Pro version. Uh, hold on while I switch off my bullsh!t alarm...
I've done a bit more reading on Mr. Price's exploits, and evidence leans toward "scam" status. For example, he is also CEO of iConsole.tv, of which the developer "unit 00" was supposed to ship by Sept 2013. But there is no evidence of it ever shipping, nor its exact specs, yet on the iConsole.tv site it's listed as "out of stock." There are other discrepancies in his work history claims.
The sad thing is that as far as KS is concerned, it's legit, because it needs to only be a "good faith" effort. A failed venture isn't a scam, and malice is hard to prove. But telltale signs of "too good to be true" claims are abundant in this case. Anyone here remember the Adam tablet by Notion Ink a couple years ago? Same MO.
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

>I just donated him 12$ for his good work- you guy can reach him at [email protected]
Hahah, thanks for the chuckle.

I agree with everything you said e.mote
e.mote said:
Even if it is a scam, I think it's a good thing, if it serves as a life lesson. First-hand experience (of being scammed) is the best educator. Think of it as a $10 inoculation shot. That's pretty cheap if it can buy you a modicum of prudence and caution.
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......except this.
You see, most people aren't what you call reasonable, they wont admit they were duped and instead will lash out at any real attempts to bring android to the desktop, which is a shame since google seems increasingly less likely to do it and developer support for linux distros is at the same level that it always was, low.
TBH its very ironic this is happening right after kickstarter lowered its entry requirements to an all time low.

Hi All, its my first post on XDA, and i must disagree with above comments.
10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome. And this guy looks legit. Its good offer for noobies like me. You can disagree, but that's my personal opinion.
check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console

>10$ for driver optimized distro of x86 Android is awesome
For a con, small amount (and large numbers of marks) is best. People won't bother with due diligence for a paltry few bucks, and once it's sprung, they can brush off the loss and not come after you. Manipulate risk-reward ratio to have high upside and low downside, and you will always net suckers looking for "awesome" deals. Promise them many too-good-to-be-true features, throw in important-sounding buzzwords and jargons, but don't get pinned down on details like the what, how and when. Third, add urgency: buy now to lock in that special deal (free lifetime upgrades).
I'm not saying it's a con, but all the trademark signatures are there.
Here's an exercise in probability for you: Do some reading on hypervisor, and find out how many consumer-level hypervisors are out there (answer: zero). Now, figure on the likelihood of this happening on a 2GB RAM, 32GB flash device--actually, any x86 device--with install as simple as booting from a USB stick, and from a startup with no known tech pedigree and a CEO whose best claim to fame is that he founded a phone blog.
So why not wait until it's shipped, supposedly by year-end? But that means I'll miss out on that "awesome" free lifetime upgrade! Heck, it's only $10. I'll pay it and take my chances.
>check engadget 2013/05/13 iconsole-tv-x86-android-game-console
Check further to find its specs, or evidence of it actually shipping (reported shipping date was Sep 2013). Where's the online support forum? Is it a secret? Please, do tell!

While I agree that this looks like a scam, I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor. That sounds like a very careful attempt to create class that sounds like it should have something in it but doesn't. Is Client Hyper-V not "consumer-level" because it's only in the higher Win8 editions? Is the PS3 hypervisor not "consumer-level" because it's buried in the console and not (supposed to be) tweakable by the user? Is Xen not "consumer-level" because it's on Linux?
Seriously, of all the things that smell wrong with this idea, the hypervisor is the least of my concerns by a large margin. There's no problem with the idea of using a hypervisor here. I'm sure the PS3 isn't the only game console to use one, for example.

>I'm curious what you consider to be a "consumer-level" hypervisor
A better choice of words would be standalone hypervisor, or perhaps (noob) user-installable hypervisor. The examples you mentioned are either baked into the product/OS, or are highly technical undertakings that are outside the realm of normal users, let alone being installable "on a bootable USB stick." I'm not into the console-mod scene, but I doubt there is a thriving PS3 mod community to run alternative OS'es.

Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.

Well I am simply a baker of this thing and was looking for some community comment on it. I have some time to cancel my 10$ input if this turn up to be a scam. I'm from Poland and it's not so small amount of money here. Do not judge people like that MGREX. Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
Wysłane z mojego Nexus 4 przy użyciu Tapatalka

>Bann for looking for looking some more reliable input LOL hope not. I really like to get this conversation going so I can judge if this is worth my money.
You don't need "reliable input," just exercise some common sense and ask the questions. Do some actual thinking yourself, rather than just rely on others to do it for you.
The supposed startup Multi-Media Ventures (MMV) has a track record to follow. It prominently claimed to have shipped its iConsole.tv ("the most powerful Android console") last year, then look for evidence. Where are iConsole.tv's support forums, developer chatter, downloads (patches / code samples / drivers / documentation / etc), hardware specs? There is nothing on the iConsole.tv site or from a Google search.
The hardware is vaguely said to have a "fourth-generation Core processor with Iris graphics," but won't specify the exact CPU. There isn't even a picture of the shipping unit. On ConsoleOS's KS page, MMV claimed that the hardware is "out of stock," but on the iConsole.tv page, no OOS is mentioned, and it is only too willing to take your $699 (it took me straight to Paypal).
There are other red flags that scream SCAM! for those who bother to dig into MMV and C. Price's history. From Price's linkedin profile, he doesn't have any programming/engineering background. Nowhere on the ConsoleOS page is there any mention of his team, let alone their tech background. The entire site is basically one big sales pitch, with no substance.
Being mentioned on a popular blog is not proof of anything. Blogs don't have the manpower or the investigative expertise to verify in-depth. Most won't even do cursory fact-checking. Their overriding want is content to fill the space and keep the page hits coming. They need massive quantity of content everyday, and perforce quality takes a back seat.
That said, if you want further veracity and can't/won't do it yourself, you can get help from a blog (or blogs). Contact a blogger from a reputable blog, explain your case, along with red flags found in MMV's spiel, and ask if s/he can look further into it. Unmasking a scam would be a pretty good scoop, and as long as it doesn't take too much effort, the blogger will likely accommodate. Suggest Ars Technica, The Verge, and/or Engadget.
ConsoleOS is supposedly pretty far along, with claims of having reached "Developer Release 1" on 25 target platforms. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a PoC video from C. Price, do you? Would be nice to see boot-up from one of those said devices, and some of those fancy buzzword features like InstaSwitch and WindowsFlinger in action, no?
Cons work on people's greed for "good deals" and laziness to fact-check, both of which are under your control. Exercise your responsibility.

There *was* actually a pretty big homebrew scene around the PS3 hypervisor (did you miss the whole "OtherOS" fiasco where Sony initially sold it with the ability to run Linux via the hypervisor, then tried to block that feature, then some enterprising hackers added it back and in the process broke the console's security wide open? I don't even have any Sony stuff but it was all over the news I was following ~3 years ago, though admittedly I follow a lot of security news). I haven't heard much about it recently, but the ability to install an run your own Linux system on the console was considered a real plus to some people (hard to get a Cell processor to play with, otherwise).
With that said, while I still don't buy the argument about the technical difficulty of using a hypervisor (seriously, not that hard; hard to write one from scratch, yes, hard to employ an existing one, no), the rest of your comments seems likely spot-on. This is a cool idea and seems like it should be possible (all the best scams are...) but I'm very skeptical that it's actually happening.

I am in the same boat as mcksz. I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed). The idea of Dual boot is very valid. I have tried multiple emulators and have quickly come to the conclusion that dual boot is the only solution for moderately powered Baytrail based 2-in-1. For me "Windows for work and Android for Play" is a very powerful solution.
@MGREX, by Chris Roberts, you mean Christoper Price? if so, he is still very much active on the the Android-x86 forum. Although, he is taking a beating in the Android-x86 forum from some of the skeptics
From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it. Now it appears that they are pivoting to delivering ConsoleOS for the desktop and will try to convince the OEMs to ship dual boot solution. I am skeptical of the overall business plan as well... as both Google and Microsoft have shown no interest in a dual boot solution.
Thanks
Rockmeister
MGREX said:
Yeah not only its not his "first post" on XDA, but I seen plenty of new accounts on other sites defending this project which I have to say couldn't come up at a better time to ensure consoleos is not debunked, though chris roberts himself seems to have been banned from the androidx86 group last time I checked.
Whatevs, the projects seem to have lost its momentum so I doubt it will reach its goal.
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Click to collapse

>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.

e.mote
I understand that we are poles apart on this issue. But isn't *all* kickstarter campaign based on certain amount of faith? Hence it comes to whether you have faith in MMV/Christoper Price (or not) in their ability to deliver on the 25 devices for the $50,000 pledge. I am willing to believe that the they would make good on their promise and also provide patches back to AOSP code base.
You think of it as an investment/securities fraud... but believe me, there are others that look at it as an supporting a campaign to get more android devices on the Intel platform of their choice and see it as a win-win. Categorizing other view points as "naive,gullible,lazy and simpletons" does not make you smart.
Currently they are nearing 43K and assuming that they reach their goal, we can revisit this thread in 63 days! Until then I will refrain from responding to this thread.
Peace!!!
Rockmeister
e.mote said:
>I do hope MMV delivers a dual boot solution for my Asus Transformer T100 (fingers crossed).
The notion of investing--what you're doing--with "fingers crossed" is so adorably naive that I just had to grin a little. As said from the outset, I think it's a good idea for everybody to experience firsthand at being a scam victim, because only then will they learn that not every claim on the Internet is true. In that, I approve of this so-called venture SPECIFICALLY because of its proclivity to go pear-shaped, and $10 is cheap for a life lesson learned.
I wholly understand that there is no argument that can sway you and those like you, because you've made up your mind on the "good deal." Selective input kicks in, and good luck getting through your blinder. Plus, in the absence of hard facts--C. Price had provided zip thus far--you fill in the gaps to fit what you wanted to believe. The best scams let the marks do most of the work.
>From my viewpoint, they are a startup and were building a dedicated android console and there was no market for it.
MMV claims that it shipped the developer "unit 00". Regardless of how good or bad the reception was, the support has to be in place. You don't just ship a dev kit and kiss off your developers because of poor sales. Do you understand this basic concept? This isn't a retail buy. Dev kits REQUIRE support. Yet there is absolutely zilch on iConsole.tv; the site is totally bare. We're not even talking about support, just basic info. Don't you think this is a cause for concern? What does it take for you to open your eyes? No need to answer, that was rhetorical.
Let's assume for the moment that MMV is legit, and iConsole.tv actually had shipped. Would you ever invest in a company that failed so utterly in its first venture that it "skipped town" on existing users, to jump on a second venture? If there's no support for iConsole.tv, isn't that a good indication of the support ConsoleOS will get?
Yeah, I know, whoosh. I hear nothing, I see nothing.
BTW, I don't blame C. Price at all. He's only taking what people gives him. If simpletons want to hand over money for dubious claims, he's more than welcome to it! Heck, checking in now, I see the new goal is $125K! GO CHRISTOPHER GO! DRINK THEIR MILKSHAKE!
The upshot about this is that it's all legal. Before Kickstarter, shenanigans like this are called securities fraud, which can entail major jail time. Now, Price & cohort can simply cop any convenient excuse--"the dog ate my code"--and they'll be in the clear. Personally, I think it's fine. You can't coddle the lazy and the gullible, who thinks "crossing fingers" is the way to invest. Let there be blood.
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Click to collapse