Database Users

Very unbiased review of Xoom vs iPad 2 on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LLDLIHDUBV84/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2LLDLIHDUBV84
Let's spread this around and vote it up!!

This is truly an unbiased reviews. It shows the XOOM the way it is, warts and all (not that there are very many warts).

Spot on review.

This is very good review I have no regrets for buying my zoom
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

c1808us said:
This is very good review I have no regrets for buying my zoom
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your 'zoom' better than my xoom?

The review might be unbiased, but it speaks of a very bad no-no about Motorola products: the bugginess of Honeycomb. This is bad because Motorola doesn't support their non-carrier products with updates and bug fixes. This means when Google updates Honeycomb to fix bugs, Motorola will never use it on the Xoom. What you get when you buy the Xoom is all you will ever have.
I'm glad I read that review. I really like the Xoom I played with at a local Best Buy and was contemplating getting one over an iPad2. Now, however, I know Honeycomb isn't perfect. That isn't to say there's anything wrong with Google mobile OSes, they all are buggy in the beginning, but it is a serious issue for the future. I know I would not ever receive any updates from Motorola...and you can't just flash a direct Honeycomb ROM from Google...so I won't bother with it since HC needs work. I will wait for the Samsung Tablet.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice.

Mod edit: Play nice. (No one cares who you add to your ignore list.)

Grow up.
This has to be the most immature thread I've ever had to suffer through reading. Everyone needs to stop flaming each other, or we will remove you from our community.
I'm not closing / deleting this thread (yet), because I believe the original post has a review that should be read. But don't for a minute think I won't take action against disrespectful users.
We're all adults here, right? I'm here to be your moderator, not your babysitter. Grow up.

MartyLK said:
The review might be unbiased, but it speaks of a very bad no-no about Motorola products: the bugginess of Honeycomb. This is bad because Motorola doesn't support their non-carrier products with updates and bug fixes. This means when Google updates Honeycomb to fix bugs, Motorola will never use it on the Xoom. What you get when you buy the Xoom is all you will ever have.
I'm glad I read that review. I really like the Xoom I played with at a local Best Buy and was contemplating getting one over an iPad2. Now, however, I know Honeycomb isn't perfect. That isn't to say there's anything wrong with Google mobile OSes, they all are buggy in the beginning, but it is a serious issue for the future. I know I would not ever receive any updates from Motorola...and you can't just flash a direct Honeycomb ROM from Google...so I won't bother with it since HC needs work. I will wait for the Samsung Tablet.
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This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
Back to the review, I also thought it was balanced. iOS is always very polished though it may lack some functionality and features. What it does do it typically does well. The iPad 2 is a device that my wife would appreciate very much and the XOOM is a device that I would prefer and will eventually pick up. I spent a number of years with Nokia Maemo tablets, waiting for Nokia and the community to fix issues and develop. I see a way better experience to come here than I did there.

this sounds like a similar review someone gave awhile ago - I'm still hoping my Xoom comes through next week...
also yes as mentioned - Motorola won't be updating the OS on Xoom - Google will be providing the updates - which is fine - it's one of the good reasons to buy one over the Samsung

great review really... I know the iPad 2 has pros over the XOOM but most pros are due to lack of user knowledge (like interface or apps...) so this is a spot-on review for people like us who know their mobile OS
I can't wait to get mine ... damn best buy canada... april 15th pre-order

Gorgonesh said:
T he XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
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It seems a lot of people over here on the Xoom boards are desperately trying to convince themselves that the Samsung tablets will be horribly undated devices. While I can see by their track records that this may most likely be the scenario, they do actually manage to properly update some of their devices. And it should not be that difficult at all to update 2 tablets with little carrier interaction.
Considering the fact that the Samsung tablets have a better screen and a more thinner profile, I would most likely get them over the Xoom regardless of Samsung's interaction.

Gorgonesh said:
This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
Back to the review, I also thought it was balanced. iOS is always very polished though it may lack some functionality and features. What it does do it typically does well. The iPad 2 is a device that my wife would appreciate very much and the XOOM is a device that I would prefer and will eventually pick up. I spent a number of years with Nokia Maemo tablets, waiting for Nokia and the community to fix issues and develop. I see a way better experience to come here than I did there.
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I provided a link in my...erm...second post in this thread, I think it was. My main concern with buying devices of this nature that need updating often is that the makers might tend to disregard their products once they are bought. I'm not rich enough to take a chance on it. Motorola has been known to not support their products over their lifetime so that people will be moved to replace the product with a newer one. Motorola, Samsung, LG and pretty much all of the companies that make devices of this nature do the same. They are in this business with one motive: to make more money. They can't make money wasting time supporting older devices...even though they should. Motorola is in the worse position of them all because they are barely hanging on in the market.
When you know this about a company and then read user reviews that say the same thing, you know there is a serious issue. The link I posted was of a user review on Amazon that says the same thing I do. I already had this knowledge of Motorola prior to reading or knowing of the Amazon user review.
When I made my first post in this section...a completely different thread...I wasn't mindful of this concern with Motorola devices. Then, after having issued the post, I read this thread and started thinking about what I already know and have heard about not just Motorola but all of these device makers. It caused me to have a change of heart about seeking to acquire a Xoom or even the Samsung tablet, when it arrives.
This is why I made additional posts on the matter, to which some people accused me of trolling rather than understanding what had happened. They chose to quickly jump to the assumption I was being a troll rather than contemplating the situation and giving the benefit of the doubt. Their error is not my fault.
I own many Apple products and never respond negatively to people who spit out trash talk about them. I own many other products that get trash-talked from time to time. But I never respond negatively because I allow humans the freedom of saying what they want. They, however, refuse to allow me the same freedom.

Gorgonesh said:
This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, I don't know where this perception is coming from.
Also, don't forget that HTC tablets will get delayed updates as well since they'll be running Sense for HC. Looks like Xoom might be the one getting the quickest updates since we're still on the stock HC experience.

How is the Motorola Xoom? The best, or not?

I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.

I paid a 1000$ for mine and I am very happy.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

Based on what I read in another thread about some bugs in HC, I've decided to either wait for a Google produced tablet with HC or stick with Apple and wait for an iPad with a higher res display. I know Google and Apple take good care of their customers with updates, support and bug fixes so it won't be a worry to me. The carriers and other manufacturers tend to be greedy and slight their customers. I won't take a chance on them.

MartyLK said:
Based on what I read in another thread about some bugs in HC, I've decided to either wait for a Google produced tablet with HC or stick with Apple and wait for an iPad with a higher res display. I know Google and Apple take good care of their customers with updates, support and bug fixes so it won't be a worry to me. The carriers and other manufacturers tend to be greedy and slight their customers. I won't take a chance on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The xoom is a google experience device. Its like the droid of tablets.
Sent from my Motorola Olympus

MartyLK said:
I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What test blew the Xoom away?

MartyLK said:
I had a chance to play with a Xoom briefly at a local Best Buy and was pleasantly surprised how well I liked it. It felt solid and significant and looked very nice. Honeycomb was...well...pure honey. It left me with the distinct desire to own one. Though recent test have the iPad2 blowing it away, the iPad2 doesn't have the higher res display of the Xoom. I would much rather watch the Xoom display than the iPad2.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ The Android OS is more friendly for everyday use. I owned a iPad, loved it, but when I got the Xoom, I realized that a tablet could be way better To say it simply, with honeycomb you have everything at hand with a simple touch, while on the iPad you have to browse through many screens to get things done. Huge difference if you want to use a tablet more productively and not for incidentally browsing, reading etc.
For example:
Picture this, I have four very active email accounts. I have a widget for each of them on my desktop. When I want to check my mail I just press home and I directly see the the new messages in each mailbox. On the iPad I first had to open the mail app and then I had to click on each of the different mailboxes to see the new messages. What a usability difference....
And this is just one example. I think Android tablets will definitely be a tough competition for the iPad. Didn't expect that till I did the switch myself. Lot of potential.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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+1
The only comparison tests i've seen the xoom won! Unless of course you mean the hype/BS test on the iforum site.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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Click to collapse
The synthetic benchmarks that anandtech ran that every Steve worshipper in the land uses as ipad 2 purchase validation.
It showed the tegra as sort of lacking in the graphics department. Personally, I didn't buy a xoom to play games, I have a PC and PS3 for that.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

MartyLK said:
But I need people;s experiences with the Xoom since it is a significant investment for me. I would buy the full-priced WiFi-only version, that's why it would be such a significant investment...no subsidized pricing. However, knowing what I know of Motorola's support tactics, we all really should be boycotting them rather than considering buying anything from them. They never update any non-subsidized products. If you own a Moto device from a carrier, you wil eventually get updates and bug fixes. But it you buy one outright, you are abandon as soon as they have your money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cents for you, I looked at the Xoom simply as something to use while 'someone' is on my laptop for hours at a time. My nice new Dell Win7 laptop cost a little more than a Xoom, and it does so much more, so I personally don't look at the Xoom as a "PC replacement". It's something I plan to use at home mostly. I bought the WiFi only one because I didn't want to be tied to Verizon for 2 years, because we really don't know how long Moto is going to put the effort into the Xoom. I don't want to potentially be paying Verizon a monthly fee for a lightly/none supported product in months 12-24 down the road.
The clamor about "Xoom has no apps" is total BS. Having 10,000 apps that make fart noises isn't something to tout. Not everything is perfect, but I'm the type that wants to personalize my device. I think Ipad has it's place as does the Xoom. People that bash either just have incomplete lives with nothing better to do. In my opinion, Ipad is more mainstream, it's what the 'unwashed masses' will flock to, because it has a consistent and simple interface, stability and requires the person to be less involved with 'setting things up'.
I'm not a 'media intensive' person...I could give 2 ****s how Youtube works on the Xoom. I have not tried the HDMI output yet, but in using 'TV' apps I'm happy that I have the option, if I take a trip where I have WiFi that I can stream music/video (I don't care that it's not in 1080p, I can live without it on even a 6 hour trip). I'm intelligent enough to read the postings here, to find apps that let me stream Dexter Season 5, which is NOT out on Netflix yet, so THAT was cool to me. I did try the NHL.com Gamecenter streaming of live games and it worked pretty good.
Also, I have an EVO through Sprint, so for $30 a month I can activate it's HotSpot feature and get unlimited data. So in my mind, if I really want to use it 'away from home' for whatever reason someone has I can also turn on/off the Hotspot feature whenever and they prorate the $30/mo to the day. So if I turn the feature on/off for 5 days in the month, it costs me $5 for that month. I could decide to be lazy too, and just leave it enabled all month, and I think that's a better deal than a 2 year contract w/ Verizon with a monthly data cap. Of course what I am doing requires 'effort' that so many people just don't want to put into things.
To me, I guess having the 3/4G options would be nice at times, but really, where outside of Home does a person really need to whip out their tablet? You going to take it to a movie or dinner, or to the ballgame? If so, why did you pay to attend something and then stick your face in your tablet? Or if you are on a bus/train, why don't you just stick a big "please rob me" sign on your back? If you are using it for 'work' chances are that you need to use it for more than a few minutes and likely for data intensive things, so your likely only going to be 'working' someplace with WiFi....if your company doesn't have WiFi (like mine) that's probably a sign that you employer doesn't want your WiFi device at work

@ austonja, well stated, now this was one of the best replies I have read in a while.

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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Click to collapse
3d tests. but apple is vying for top mobile gaming platform so you can see why.

I think you are asking the wrong question. Of course the Xoom is not the BEST...but then NO product fulfills that criteria for me. The Xoom is excellent. I enjoy it greatly, and there are reasons I picked it over the other options which are still valid. I am satisfied with my choice, but it was a choice, and given slightly different thinking, I am sure I would have been happy with the iPad 2 or the other new Honeycomb tablets when they arrive. I personally think you would not regret a Xoom purchase...but that is just my opinion.

Xoom is decent, but its just the hardware. Before the end of the year I'm sure we will be seeing some great devices that will trump the xoom. Also 2012 I'm sure will be a very exciting year for tablets. Very excited to see what will happen
If now talking about Honeycomb, I believe from what I see is so far the best. Once it get its kinks worked out and we go through a few updates Honeycomb will be the best OS out there for tablets. Honeycomb>IOS>Palm(HP)>blackberry qnx

Sistum Id said:
What test blew the Xoom away?
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Click to collapse
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
http://blog.laptopmag.com/ipad-2-graphics-performance-blows-away-motorola-xoom-original-ipad
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/982268-ipad-2-gpu-blows-away-other-tablet-gpus-including-the-xoom/
http://www.getlaptopreview.com/lapt...e-blows-away-motorola-xoom-original-ipad.html
http://www.tablets.com/uncategorized/the-ipad-2s-powervr-gpu-blows-away-competition/
http://techscrunch.com/tablets/ipad...hz-dual-core-cortex-a9-and-powervr-sgx543mp2/
http://phonegear.eu/ipad-2-graphics...way-ipad-1-and-tegra-2-powered-motorola-xoom/
http://appmasters.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/ipad-2-graphics-blow-away-all-other-tablets/
http://androidforums.com/general-ta...-2-these-14-example-have-changed-my-mind.html
http://www.toteo.com/tech-gadgets/2012-ipad-2-graphics-much-faster-than-ipad-1-motorola-xoom.html
http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/25/ipad-vs-ipad-2-graphics-performance/
http://felixonline.co.uk/preview/tech/1100/ipad-2-blows-away-rivals/
http://www.digitalninjastl.com/blog...d-2’s-graphics-the-infinity-blade-test-shows/
There are many more that came up in Google search but I got tired of listing them all.

Eclair~ said:
None of those sites you listed performed the test again and some of them were simply just forums discussing the information Anandtech presented to us. They only posted Anandtech's graphs and reported the information back again. Therefore it was still "one review" and the fanboys can still say "Just one review!". I'm not trying to be negative, I get your point and what you were trying to prove. The iPad 2 is more powerful than the Xoom and anyone who claims otherwise is... in denial, or a fanboy.
You sound kinda hostile.
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Sorry about sounding hostile. It isn't meant. I have had a bad day already. Having been infracted for responding to hateful people and those very same people have not been infracted. When you are an innocent person who wants nothing more than to express views and allow others to express their views and you get accosted for it, it leaves you with a seriously jaded view of life and humanity. It makes a person hope there truly is something to the 2012 myth because I've had my fill of the hatred people love to spew.
As far as the iPad2 goes, I wouldn't buy one of those either. I don't like looking at highly visible pixels on a screen. The iPad2's 1024x768 res is just way too low for this day and time. I did love the display of the Xoom and was yearning for a Xoom...until I was reminded it would be supported by Motorola. But I did read a post that said Google would be updating the Xoom. If this is true...and I'm trying to get confirmation of this in another thread...I may yet acquire a Xoom. As I said, though, I won't get one through or locked to carriers. It would be the full-priced one with WiFi only.

Eclair~ said:
I do hope that when a Honeycomb tablet beats these benchmarks that it receives just as much press.
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Click to collapse
when that happens i hope there are some games that make having that horsepower useful. as of right now i don't think there are any games on the android platform that would benefit. that would be as crappy as paying for 2 cpu cores but having apps only utilize one...

The iPad is a finished product. It's a good one, too. (My wife has the iPad 1.)
The Xoom is not finished, and it approaches the new iPad already.
The iPad is never gonna suck, but it's pretty obvious the Xoom has the potential to kick it's ass. However, I have very little faith that Google, Motorola or Verizon will bring it to that point. We'll need to rely on the Android development community for that.
In my opinion, the only time a Xoom will ever be really great is when it's rooted and has a custom ROM installed.

MartyLK said:
The sad part is, I predicted someone would waste their time to say that. It seems people would rather post negative light about others than useful information.
The *reason* why I posted all of those was because the fanboys would come back and say, "Aha! Just one review! That doesn't mean anything!"
However, knowing that someone would complain that all of those links weren't needed, I chose that direction rather than allowing the fanboy/girls a voice.
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Click to collapse
Are you for real? Go back and read all of your posts in this thread.
You posted that many links to show how people reported on the ONE benchmark? What does that have to do with anything? Not one of those sites re-ran or even confirmed the benchmark themselves, so it is relavent to point out that you could have and should have posted only one link.
You're trying to find fault for some reason in a product you don't own and then post it on the forum. You have to see why this might make me thing you're trolling for no reason.
If you don't like Motorola based on one forum post, that's fine. If you don't like the Xoom based on one test, that's fine. If you don't like it because you actually tried it and tested it for a long time, that's another story. Posting links we have all seen (weeks ago), doesn't help anyone on this forum or help anyone decide to/not to buy something that you don't even own.
Just how I feel about this whole thread.

Psychokitty said:
The iPad is a finished product. It's a good one, too. (My wife has the iPad 1.)
The Xoom is not finished, and it approaches the new iPad already.
The iPad is never gonna suck, but it's pretty obvious the Xoom has the potential to kick it's ass. However, I have very little faith that Google, Motorola or Verizon will bring it to that point. We'll need to rely on the Android development community for that.
In my opinion, the only time a Xoom will ever be really great is when it's rooted and has a custom ROM installed.
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Click to collapse
That's the problem with Motorola products, the BIOS and bootloader are locked. The only time a custom ROM can be flashed is if it's based on an official Motorola ROM. That's one of my biggest concerns about Motorola. They hinder the XDA community from doing their magic on Motorola devices. If Google releases an updated Honeycomb ROM that deals with bugs and provides performance enhancement, the XDA community can't use it on Motorola devices until Motorola makes an official ROM out of it.

MartyLK said:
That's the problem with Motorola products, the BIOS and bootloader are locked. The only time a custom ROM can be flashed is if it's based on an official Motorola ROM. That's one of my biggest concerns about Motorola. They hinder the XDA community from doing their magic on Motorola devices. If Google releases an updated Honeycomb ROM that deals with bugs and provides performance enhancement, the XDA community can't use it on Motorola devices until Motorola makes an official ROM out of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Xoom is completely unlocked. Unlocked bootloader (with standard sdk tools you can unlock it), and there are no signature checks, at all. We can modify the xoom software however we want.
Learn your facts before you post.

From heaven to Hell in 5 weeks

Two months ago, I was getting ready for my vacation (first one in six years) and a trip to US (Going next week). I spent several days checking forums, sites, magazines, everything that would help me choose the best tablet, and Xoom looked like the best option.
I never liked Apple and Ipad. To 'restricted' I’m my opinion. It's like a fine car that doesn't allow you to change the gear, break, accelerate or even steering. Basically the only think you can do is to insert address in the GPS and horn!
I have a Samsung galaxy S and so fat it’s the best phone I have ever had. I already had HTC, Kaiser, Blackberry, Motorola, LG, Nokia, etc and this is, by far, the best one. At first it was terrible: slow, too may Samsung bloatware, terrible battery live, but after flashing few cooked roms it transformed itself to a new device. It was Clark and now became Superman.
Back to the Tablets, when I was looking for the best tablet for me I checked other tablets as well: Samsung didn't had micro SD slot, no HDMI output and it also had almost the same weight as Xoom. Rim Tablet was too "Blackberry alike", and with an unknown OS. LG didn't have all the option as the Motorola Xoom and Ipad is… Ipad. So Xoom looked like the best option available. I decided to pre-order the Wi-Fi version to be delivered to the hotel address because I was afraid of a possible shortage. I have only one shot and I couldn`t miss it. Also this way I would be able to use it as my main computer during the trip. The Xoom is already waiting me on the hotel front desk…
….But I wish it wasn’t. In few weeks Xoom changed from the best available option to the worst option in the new Android market.
First, Motorola wasn’t able to keep up with other companies. Samsung did a major strategic movement and decided to re-design their table. Samsung created a tablet that weight just like an Ipad, and almost 30% less than the Xoom with almost the same specs as the Xoom. Samsung included a MicroSD slot, a much better screen (Super IPS) and HDMI while keeping same price as an Ipad 2. I can get the 16gb version for 100 less than the Xoom and I will still able to buy three or more 16gb MicroSD. Looking at the Samsung tablet make you feel like Motorola isn’t even trying. Bulkier, heavier an more expensive (ok 32gb is the same price, but they didn’t include a 16gb version which is cheaper if you think that you can get a 16gb MicroSD for 30 now.)
In the meantime Motorola is fighting itself: news that they will drop the production of Xoom, e-mails sent to Xda to remove .dump file, locket bootloader on the atrix and droid phones. It looks like Motorola is attacking the only thing that could save the Xoom: The community that could help support the device by making customs rom and other improvements.
In my opinion, it looks like Motorola is working hard to prevent customs Roms to the Xoom
So I keep asking myself if I should keep the Xoom, and the short answer is: No. I shouldn’t
I will be needing a tablet during my trip and I still haven`t decided if I should keep my Xoom until I can get a Samsung Tab or if I should send it back to Amazon and get a Asus Transformer. I am afraid that keeping the Xoom for too much time I won`t be able sell it in the future. I`m feeling like I am with a time bomb on my lap and if I doesn`t sell it fast enough it will blow.
And I have no doubt that it will be much easier to sell an Asus Transformer or an Acer A 500 than sell the Xoom in the near future. Hey, the transformer have a different strategy (that it can also be used as a netbook) so I may ending keeping it (but I still like Samsung Tab 10.1 best).
For now, Xoom is just better than nothing because there are no other android devices available. From April 24th (Acer A500 launch) it will face the competition of Acer. After that Asus and Samsung. The truth is that I haven`t even open the Xoom box, but I’m already with bitter taste in my mouth.
Some people talk about Xoom having the premium price. You paid more because you wanted to have the first Android device in the market ahead from everyone. OK, but would you pay this “premium price” if you knew that it would only last four weeks? That after 4 weeks you would have 4 new and better options (cheaper ones) available? Also, how much “premium price” you’ll have to pay? You already paying it in dollars, but you already paying it in the fact that the OS have bugs (like Mem space bug), that the SD card doesn’t work, that the screen is worst than every other device. How much you’ll have to pay as premium price?
Now I just need to know how can I return an unopened Xoom to Amazon and have a refund to purchase and Acer or and Asus for 200 bucks less.
It’s sad when you haven’t event received a new gadget but you already have give up on it, but it is worst when you realized that even the manufacture have already give up on the device.

isnt the galaxy tab shipping with FROYO? with Samsung's track record, I doubt it'll get honeycomb in 2011, gingerbread is a more realistic goal, maybe near christmas?
Xoom is a great tablet and I'm sorry that you've decided to return it without even using it.
This same thread has been posted too many times, and needs to be added to a forum FAQ or something. "Should I buy x if y is coming out soon?" turns into "Should I buy y if z is coming out soon?". At some point you just have to make a purchase and accept that no technology is going to be "the best" for very long

Wait, you haven't even opened the box and we get this long rant?
Use the device, let your experience guide your choices. The simple fact is that the Xoom is a powerful and beautiful slate, if you are one of us who love it out of the box.
We have root, we have overclock and regardless of the Xoom platform Honeycomb will have a strong community support even if because it is Android.
I for one am a power user and love my Xoom, it's attractive and does it's job well for my tastes.
Regardless, you need to experience the thing in your environment before you decide it isn't worth your time. Normally the hurdle would be the purchase, but you've already passed that one. Take the time to configure and play, then decide!

Dubar said:
isnt the galaxy tab shipping with FROYO? with Samsung's track record, I doubt it'll get honeycomb in 2011, gingerbread is a more realistic goal, maybe near christmas?
Xoom is a great tablet and I'm sorry that you've decided to return it without even using it.
This same thread has been posted too many times, and needs to be added to a forum FAQ or something. "Should I buy x if y is coming out soon?" turns into "Should I buy y if z is coming out soon?". At some point you just have to make a purchase and accept that no technology is going to be "the best" for very long
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Galaxy Tab 10 is not shipping with 2.2. Launching with 3.0.

LordLugard said:
Galaxy Tab 10 is not shipping with 2.2. Launching with 3.0.
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my bad, must be thinking of the older one; I feel sorry for anyone who bought that oversized phone that doesnt make calls
After using honeycomb, 2.x just doesnt make sense on a tablet
edit: I cant wait for all these new tablets to come out so people can start to differentiate between problems with the xoom and problems with honeycomb.

It's amazing how you've managed to out dumb every single other post in xoom general with this ridiculous pointless rant.
You've not even opened the box and you're complaining about the xoom.
The xoom is the most unlocked device moto has ever produced, it won't ever be locked.
You have nothing to backup your claims at all. There is nothing about the new tablets coming out that will reduce your enjoyment of the xoom. If you keep worrying about the next tablet and then the next tablet you will never have a tablet, and never be happy.
The xoom is a wonderful device with a lot going for it and nothing samsung or acer does will change that for me.
Honestly its your fault for ordering something so far ahead of time, especially a device like this that had almost no chance of selling out.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App

I'm sure that the description "From Heaven to Hell" seems a bit dramatic to most readers, but if thats the way you feel, you will probably never be happy with the Xoom even after the upgrades & updates.
The more I read the more I realize the Xoom really is only going to one of the best tablets after it's hacked, overclocked and running a high quality custom ROM. This is the way I always intended to use the Xoom, though I am learning that I really am in the minority of users. Those consumers having no intention of hacking the tablet are likely to be disappointed when comparing it to a more "finished" product.
I add my experience to this post only to help illustrate the importance of considering the intended use of the product by the individual giving his opinion of it. Critics of users who are dissatisfied with the Xoom seem to overlook that relevance and chastise them unjustly. Inevitably, every thread that includes negative opinions of the Xoom turns to **** as a polarized pissing contest ensues.
The ironic good part of this usual course of behavior is that waiting for these updates will give everyone a chance to get this crap out of their system so that by that time we can get busy talking about nothing but development, improvements and ROMs. Won't THAT be great?!

Sorry if you think that what I wrote is 'ridiculous pointless rant', but what a wrote is just what I am feeling so I am probably feeling ridiculous pointless right now.
About pre-ordering, yes it was a bad call. But I was in the US last thanksgiving and I spent two weeks trying to get a Xbox Kinect with no luck. I just didn`t want that to happened again. I also pre order a 3DS in the same way as the Xoom.
I agree that there is nothing from the new tables that would keep me from enjoying the Xoom, but that's not so simple. It's human nature to search for the best, and have the best. So I can say that except for some users that actually try several devices in order to choose the right one, most of the consumers will just choose the ones that looks the best. And between too devices, one 30% lighter and with the same specs, most of the users will go for the lighter even without testing.
I know that I am responsible for what happened but I think that what you should realize is that this will be the most typical scenario for the Xoom in the next weeks. Do you think that most of the consumers will act as XDA user and will do their homework (even then some XDA users will return theirs Xoom) or they will make their decisions like I did, in an impulse purchase?
Just look how many people stood on the line to purchase an Ipad 2 in the first day. None of these people were able to fully try Ipad before buying it. They just went for the one that looked the best.
And so this will probably happens with Android devices too. Most of people will go for the one with better specs or, in a secondary decision path, for the cheaper one. Very few people will go for the `right one for me`.
I just don't think that Motorola will hold on the Xoom if they start getting low sales numbers and high return rates. Motorola hasn't show that it will support Xoom if it fails in sale, and that's, combined to a POSSIBLE decision to prevent custom rooms (like they did in some Droid and Atrix phones) will turn out to be doom fall to Xoom users.

Psychokitty said:
I'm sure that the description "From Heaven to Hell" seems a bit dramatic to most readers, but if thats the way you feel, you will probably never be happy with the Xoom even after the upgrades & updates.
The more I read the more I realize the Xoom really is only going to one of the best tablets after it's hacked, overclocked and running a high quality custom ROM. This is the way I always intended to use the Xoom, though I am learning that I really am in the minority of users. Those consumers having no intention of hacking the tablet are likely to be disappointed when comparing it to a more "finished" product.
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I agree with the fact that Xoom will be a much better device after hacked and with custom Rom. I just don`t know if that will happen. Just look at the Atrix forum and the petition to have an unlocked bootloader. If I`m wrong please let me know but we are not sure, at this time, that there will be custom roms avaiable to the Xoom.

If I may throw my 2 cents into the can...
Yes, it looks like cheaper, and slimmer or lighter tablets are coming around the corner. Acer and Asus have it right in the price. Samsung built a thinner mouse trap, if you will, with redesigning the 8.9 and 10.1 Tabs.
Here's why the Xoom is my pick to date: Stock Android Device. Yes, all these tablets will have Honeycomb, but the OEM's are placing UI's on top. Granted, They don't appear to be too obtrusive to the Honeycomb experience (thank you Samsung for figuring that out) it will still be an issue when updates are released. I learned my lesson on the phone side and bought the Nexus S, and am so, so glad I did. Now, I don't want to get into a discussion of who the updates will be coming from, but it's obvious that a stock operating system will get the updates much, much faster than any devices with custom UI's. Samsung will have one, Asus will have one, hell HTC wants to put frigging Sense on their tablets. Yes people, you HTC tablet owners will get to stare at that stupid clock widget all day long on a bigger screen.
Look, I understand that the Xoom is way too expensive, I look at my Best Buy account and cringe, but I'm glad I pulled the trigger and bout the Xoom. It may not be a "Nexus" device per say, but for the joy of having the "pure Google experience" I'm all about the Xoom.

Dandarebr said:
I agree with the fact that Xoom will be a much better device after hacked and with custom Rom. I just don`t know if that will happen. Just look at the Atrix forum and the petition to have an unlocked bootloader. If I`m wrong please let me know but we are not sure, at this time, that there will be custom roms avaiable to the Xoom.
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Click to collapse
the only thing stopping the development of custom roms right now is the lack of HC source code, so if the xoom never gets custom roms then no 3.x device will

chrisharmful said:
If I may throw my 2 cents into the can...
Yes, it looks like cheaper, and slimmer or lighter tablets are coming around the corner. Acer and Asus have it right in the price. Samsung built a thinner mouse trap, if you will, with redesigning the 8.9 and 10.1 Tabs.
Here's why the Xoom is my pick to date: Stock Android Device. Yes, all these tablets will have Honeycomb, but the OEM's are placing UI's on top. Granted, They don't appear to be too obtrusive to the Honeycomb experience (thank you Samsung for figuring that out) it will still be an issue when updates are released. I learned my lesson on the phone side and bought the Nexus S, and am so, so glad I did. Now, I don't want to get into a discussion of who the updates will be coming from, but it's obvious that a stock operating system will get the updates much, much faster than any devices with custom UI's. Samsung will have one, Asus will have one, hell HTC wants to put frigging Sense on their tablets. Yes people, you HTC tablet owners will get to stare at that stupid clock widget all day long on a bigger screen.
Look, I understand that the Xoom is way too expensive, I look at my Best Buy account and cringe, but I'm glad I pulled the trigger and bout the Xoom. It may not be a "Nexus" device per say, but for the joy of having the "pure Google experience" I'm all about the Xoom.
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I agree with most everything you said however, where is the microSD card support on Xoom? These new tablets are releasing with functional slots. For a flagship device for Honeycomb, I am a bit disappointed. I have had my Xoom since day 1 and being as patient as possible with this but seeing other honeycomb tablets release with microSD support is a slap in the face.

dandearebr,
notice this...
regarding development of android device you must have development device, until now the development device supported by google are : G1 (legacy, not supported anymore), Nexus One, Nexus S and Motorola Xoom... the last three have unlock bootoloader officially, not by doing a hack, G1 Dev are coming unlocked from the first day of release (except G1 T Mob)..
so now, are you sure the next coming HC tablets have official unlock bootloader? "fastboot oem unlock"
Droid, Desire, Xperia etc, they are not development device, so is Atrix and others..the only way to put custom android to that product is hacking the bootloader..
Atrix have a good bootloader lock, afaik until now, no one have succes unlock milestone bootloader..so atrix will do the same..
now, one million dollars question for u, are u sure u want to buy next tablet that we dont know about their bootloader? u love custom rom right?

Dear Dandearebr
You will never get "perfect" tablet because there is no definition of such. There are expectations that are constantly changing, also they are very personal and subjective.
Your opinion is based on reviews and vocal complainers baseless in most of cases.
Xoom is very solid tablet capable of replacing of laptop. I am sure that it will get updates and will be useful for a least a year, year and a half. Then it will be a picture frame.
BTW, it has amazingly powerful sound. Listening online radio is very enjoyable.
My opinion is based on experience using Android since 2009, starting with HTC G1, then MyTouch, Galaxy S, Samsung Galaxy Tab 7". Xoom is a different animal because of Honeycomb and it is a big step forward.
Personally I prefer 7" tab with phone capability and pocketable size.

Classic buyer's remorse. We've all been there. My suggestion is to follow through and return it. You will never likely be happy with it, regardless of how well it functions for you.
Happily typing from my unlocked, rooted, overclocked Xoom.

Please return it so that real users don't have to clean up after you and kiss your boo-boos. Sheesh, you don't need a Xoom, you need a mom!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

So have you actually used the device?

God, return it.
Then when the XYZ tablet you want comes out you will go cry to those forums that ZYS v2.0 tablet is coming out.

I don't get why a lot of you are getting all defensive and starts attacking a fellow member, just because he's having a much better look at the future than us early adopters. I mean, be honest guys! A lot of us here are all wishful thinking about the opposite of what the OP has said! Yeah, we all might be happy for now, as the Motorola Xoom is the only tablet available that's actually competing with iPadLock2. But a few days, weeks from now, with all these tablets coming out and (hopefully not) the chance of Xoom reaching it's end of life/production. Along with threats of locked bootloader and a chance of not getting any update support from Motorola (FACT: XOOM is NOT the developer TAB from Google), we might just end up flooding this forum with threads just like the OP's.. Let's face it, no one knows about Xoom's future.. Heck I don't even know if Jha even knows the Xooms future at this point.. But the fact that Xoom's sale wasn't really that good, due to motorola's marketing strategy and price, with the iPad 2's overwhelming, and the upcoming flooding of Honeycomb tablets with better specs and/or pricing, our Xoom tablet could very well just end up as a very expensive paperweight.. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my Xoom! It meets my daily needs but the fact that it hasn't yet reached it's full potential due to Honeycomb's infancy, the FC's and limited apps worries me. I mean, we all know how these companies are.. If their product doesn't sell, they stop the production and support/updates. Add to that the threat on the XDA community regarding the Dump files and chances of the Bootloader getting locked, helps me understand the OP's sentiments/rants.. Let's face it, this is not the Developer's TAB like what we all hoped it would be when we bought it. Without the support from Motorola and the XDA community, this product we're defending would actually just end up like what the OP has said on the title of this thread. So let's just get along and stop bashing the OP just because he still has a chance to change his mind. Me, I would advice the OP to just return/sell the Xoom and wait for a few the upcoming tablets before it's too late. Because if he does, he would have a much better look at the future of the Xoom. Who knows, he might even see Motorola getting crazy coming up with a 16GB version, with better pricing and unlocked bootloader! Now that would be a win/win situation for the OP and us early adopters!! My fingers are crossed..........

Perfect! There really is no more to debate on this, and just no reason to bash the OP. Nobody knows anything for sure yet. I'm in it for the long haul, but only because I intend to be an end user of custom ROMs. I WILL be disappointed with how much I spent on the Xoom if that doesn't ever happen.

An unusual way to tell the Xoom just might be OK

We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).

kcrudup said:
We here at XDA- people who tend to be more-knowledgeable than the average buyer about technical things- know well that the best source of information for many issues isn't the manufacturer's support, but on the internet and sites like this one.
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing. Now Moto/Google have to get the bugs worked out, as the Joe User market-segment isn't going to want/need/know to get hacks and mods from sites like this. (Oh, and as would be expected, most posts that contain "I spoke to Moto TS" tend to have been disappointed in the quality/reliability of the answer they got, something else Moto can improve with better support for the Xoom as well).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your point for posting this?

tech support blows and people are stupid

znfrazier said:
your point for posting this?
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Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").

kcrudup said:
Que?! Just putting an opinion out there (esp. in the face of how "only" 100K unit sales in 6 weeks of a non-essential $800 consumer device is considered some sort of "flop").
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No se. i thought you had a question lol and i read through it like 3 times.. my b :O

>But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience
I think it's more about the mainstreaming of mobile devices. Smartphones will always be hampered by the monthly carrier fees, even as they become more popular. Tabs will be mostly wifi (no fees), and their larger size are more versatile, and thus more appealing.
>IOW, if Joe User is picking up a Xoom, that can only be a good thing.
In the short run, I disagree. Honeycomb is still beta status, and this first crop of Android tabs are premium-priced. In both price/performance and user-experience, the lackluster Android effort only justifies the iPad's frontrunner status.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. Android's quasi-open-source, multi-vendor approach means more competition, which means lower prices. There is already price competition for this first crop; Moto was forced to drop pricing (nominally) even before the Xoom was available for some region.
Lower pricing will be key to any new platform adoption, fragmentation be damned. Use MS Windows as a gauge. In the near future, you will walk into a retail outlet and see the iPad 2 for $500, and a similar Android tab for $300. The Android may be less polished, but it isn't as limited as the Apple toy. More importantly, it's a $200 difference.
How "near" is near? I'd say next year. The mentioned price delta is likely to be achieved this year, but the UX and app repertoire still aren't a sufficient value proposition for Android tabs. It'll take a year.
For the Xoom specifically, there isn't a need to apologize for it per the topic header. How well the Xoom sells is irrelevant to a Xoom owner, since he already bought it. Its hardware is similar enough to others of the Teg2 crop that there'll be 3rd-party support, regardless of official Moto support. To wit: somebody has already used Asus' source to develop SD-slot support for the Xoom.
Buying is an emotional process, and people have a need to justify their choice in the presence of peers, eg buying a Xoom is "good." Rationally speaking, it's irrelevant. You buy something because you want or need it, and you can afford it. That's it. It doesn't matter what others buy or don't buy. Have self-confidence.

When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy." I was getting one as soon as I'd gotten the specs on it, no matter if there were only 5K sold.
(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )

>When I said "OK" in the title, I meant "OK" in the sense of "do OK", i.e., "It'll be just fine out there in the marketplace", not "OK" in "I guess it's good enough to buy."
I disagree on that. Moto's premium strategy is ill-advised, since its exclusivity isn't long enough, and its hardware isn't differentiated enough. The rumored sales numbers is a good indication.
This isn't to say that the Xoom is over-priced. While the 3G model has a hefty premium attached, the wifi model is competitive at $600 for 32GB. Moto's mistake is in not leading with the 16GB SKU at the iPad-decreed $500 price point. Hence its "more expensive yet does less" tag.
>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree)
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.

>(Oh, and I didn't need the ASUS source to make SD-Card work, turns out everything we'd needed was in our own kernel tree )
e.mote said:
Sure, but the inspiration to work on it came from the Asus' working SD slot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, not quite. I was here at the office bored working on some other stuff, when I decided to take another look at the board files in our own source 'cause I'd remembered one of the other platforms had more SDHCI channels defined. I figured out what to do about 3 hrs later, and sent BigRushDog and CoolBHO3K a PM telling 'em what I'd had, and it turns out they too had been working on it simultaneously, using the Asus kernel sources as a guide (which I still haven't seen yet, gotta download it in case there's other stuff in there we can use).
Since BRD/CBHO3K have already put kernels out there, I just sent them the GitHub commits I'd done and told them to pick and choose what they'd want to use (IIRC, the mounting stuff in the init scripts).
I'm still running my own stuff too (mostly 'cause our kernels have diverged a bit as I've pulled in more upstream changes, as least as of Sunday).
But hey, SD-Card works now!

A thumb's-up for the effort, and in sharing it with the community.
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.

e.mote said:
Next on the to-do list: Hardware acceleration for H.264 codec.
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Man, you just don't know- I'd sell my firstborn* for the real NVidia Tegra 2 chipset programming manual, and/or the full schematic for the Xoom!
* - as I don't have any kids yet, unless your name is "Rumplestiltskin" I ain't got nothin' to worry about

No love from the Nvidia developer PR rep? OK, clue me in. What does it take to get the Teg250 tech ref? Or do people use OpenMax for Android?

kcrudup said:
But what I have noticed is that sites with Xoom content geared toward a more-general audience (Verizon's forums, Motorola's forums, AndroidCentral ), etc.) are the number of people who have called Motorola Technical Support looking for answers- which is exactly the first thing that would come to mind for someone who's not, dare I say it, a ... "handset geek".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, you have the reverse- i.e., where the "Average Joe" in the Motorola forums is now all over the Moto forums *****ing and moaning endlessly "to Motorola" (they really do believe that forum is special 'cause it's hosted on Moto's site) over lack of SD-Card and LTE upgrade (the latter doesn't exist only 'cause of parts shortages, but the non-tech crowd over there has misinterpreted Jha's "LTE incompatibility" statement and run with it).
It's utterly unreadable over there now, and of course you've got your Wingnut Contingent bleating on about "class action lawsuits" and of course the whole "Never buying Moto again" crowd.

ICS coming soon it seems

I just noticed an update for Acer Nidus (their bug reporting app) in the changelog, it mentions a change to allow better ICS compatibility. So clearly they are in the testing phase, in fact theyre far enough into it that they're ever n upgrading their own apps for it, which means thework theyve done to build the Rom must be pretty far along.

Good stuff! Thanks for the heads up.

This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.

garringm said:
This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.
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ME too...That was one of the reason I bought it.

Acer sales spurt
I think acer will push the ics update sooner then people are expecting,or they will release a new tablet then push the update to us after that.So it could go either way. IF they do not have the new t 3 tablets ready.or there is a very large stock of icer iconia tabs out there.. they may push the update and use it as a tool to promote another sales spurt for out devices..
I Guess with this said it could be tomorrow or not until spring or mid year.. AS i said above and from what i have read it all depends on how close the new t 3 devices are . They do what ever they can to drive sales NOT MAKE ALREADY CUSTOMERS HAPPY..
i USED TO Own a retail business and on a local scale this does work its like when a new version of windows is about to come out.. People dont push new hardware right away.. they push that there existing hardware will run the new os and push that first.. then NEw hardware taking advantage of the new os after stocks have been depleated.. ITS NOT FAIR TO CUSTOMERS BUT GOOD FOR THERE BOTTOM LINE..

garringm said:
This is one of the reasons I went ahead and purchased the Iconia Tab, I have read many reports online stating that ACER will be pushing the 4.0 update sometime in January for both models of their Android TAB the A100 and A500. Your little find makes me believe that they werent kidding, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it in January I would bet on No earlier than February, thats just the way Manufactures seem to do things anymore.
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Click to collapse
It'll be awhile before I flash any update from a manufacturer, went down that road with my evo 4g and samsung captivate. Samsung Drops the ball every time an update comes out, nut I guess I can't cry too hard because a lot of the hold up is from the phone carriers trying to tie up any loop hole, and cram all of their crapware in. HTC pulled a major foopah with the hardcore techies when they locked down their bootloaders. 6 months without root priviliges, that sucked

FWIW - the newly released a200 has been announced as ICS ready - with reports that it will be shipping with ICS in January.
Given the lead times between manufacture and shipping - to be saying this and aiming get a device in stores in January with ICS - the ICS rom must pretty much be complete for that device.
And what a sweet tab it is for the price - picked up one of the first ones available for a very sweet 299 - which i think makes it the best priced HC 3.2.1 10'1 tab on the planet at the moment. Well done acer . . .
___________
Acer Liquid MT
Acer A200 Iconia Tab

I might be wrong, but my money is on ACER NOT pushing ICS <period>. They may make it available manually, but pushing it OTA should have their legal staff trying to stop it.
Here's the issue. If you download the HC kernel and compare it to ICS it is greatly different. Many applications have issues running on ICS that ran fine on HC. It is risky. Many carriers have a service level agreement with customers and breaking a tablet on a customer you already have on contract paying you isn't worth the risk either. Secondly, there are huge changes in ICS that certain carriers are not going to want on their 3G networks. So, anyone with such an ACER (like on on Verzion), don't hold your breath.
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money? No upside, only costs, headaches, and lawsuit's written all over it. ACER will therefore, release ICS only on NEW hardware. Therefore they can get you to pay for it. Also read their press releases. They are saying A500 to get ICS. But they are NOT saying YOUR OLD ACER a500 that you previously bought will be upgraded free of charge and free of issues are they?
Bottom-line, there's too much risk involved in OTA'ng a NEW OS to customers that are NOT paying you anything. Why have someone start a class action lawsuit over it because the OTA broke something?
Lastly, I've been programming and running ICS for 3 months now and it is buggy. Stuff crashes, MFG's are needing to patch their apps, etc. If ACER makes ICS OTA it won't be a release it will be a nightmare.
my 2¢
TD

timmyDean said:
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money?
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Click to collapse
If Acer's smart and that executive sitting in the boardroom is not so short sighted, they'll understand that supporting their 8 month old product with reasonable updates for a reasonable period of time is the only way I'll consider using their brand again.
So if they abandon it... I (and many other users here) will never buy another Acer as a gift for a friend or family member, never recommend it to anybody, and we'll end up telling everybody to stay away from them. That's not how you build brand loyalty (compare this with Apple).
Even Samsung, who announced they weren't going to bother with ICS for any of the legacy Galaxy products is now having second thoughts after the backlash they started getting.
Now, nobody's saying they need to release all updates for everything forever. The 18-month Android Developer commitment these companies pledged to is a very reasonable window. And if there's concern about the OTA aspect, release it on the side as a manual update (HTC already does this).
And for bonus points, when they're done with the product's life-cycle... at least leave the keys on the table for us (i.e. HTC and their recent decision to unlock all boot-loaders).

timmyDean said:
I might be wrong, but my money is on ACER NOT pushing ICS <period>. They may make it available manually, but pushing it OTA should have their legal staff trying to stop it.
Here's the issue. If you download the HC kernel and compare it to ICS it is greatly different. Many applications have issues running on ICS that ran fine on HC. It is risky. Many carriers have a service level agreement with customers and breaking a tablet on a customer you already have on contract paying you isn't worth the risk either. Secondly, there are huge changes in ICS that certain carriers are not going to want on their 3G networks. So, anyone with such an ACER (like on on Verzion), don't hold your breath.
So, here you are at ACER sitting in the executive boardroom and they're discussing ICS. Why would anyone want to support giving past customers (or better yet forcing past customers via OTA) ICS when they already have that past customer's money? No upside, only costs, headaches, and lawsuit's written all over it. ACER will therefore, release ICS only on NEW hardware. Therefore they can get you to pay for it. Also read their press releases. They are saying A500 to get ICS. But they are NOT saying YOUR OLD ACER a500 that you previously bought will be upgraded free of charge and free of issues are they?
Bottom-line, there's too much risk involved in OTA'ng a NEW OS to customers that are NOT paying you anything. Why have someone start a class action lawsuit over it because the OTA broke something?
Lastly, I've been programming and running ICS for 3 months now and it is buggy. Stuff crashes, MFG's are needing to patch their apps, etc. If ACER makes ICS OTA it won't be a release it will be a nightmare.
my 2¢
TD
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I keep up with the technology blogs and Acer is updating this tablet plus A100 by April. As far as all the other stuff Acer has recently said this week that they are focusing less on making new Android products but making great hardware and attracting customers by supporting software with updates.
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/dev...id-devices-catching-on-acer-joining-the-pack/
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A lot of good points, but money talks in the world of business. Samsung, fubar'ed the press release that's all; everyone is thinking it, nobody is saying like Samsung.
Voting with our pocketbook, is correct. But we should have all walked when they locked the bootloader, don't you think?
All you have to have is ONE OTA come down and 'lady I'll get rich' looses access to the pictures she took of her dead husband. And lets say he died in Iraq, just to pour it on. So here's the grieving widow, of a fallen American hero, on national TV crying her eyes out that ACER pushed ICS and now she's lost the only pictures (oh and lets say a few videos) of her late husband.
Can you say multi-billion dollar lawsuit! If they push ICS it will not be pretty, and this is why no OEM will push it or make it available to an existing customer base. That's why they locked the bootloader so you cannot install ICS. Follow the money, you want ICS your bootloader is locked so cough up the cash for a new tablet, because with the locked boot loader you aren't loading anything. And they can walk into a court of law and state such 'Judge, we're not responsible for customer's loss of data because we locked the device. And as the evidence will show, the plaintiff unlocked the device causing the damage and loss of her photos and videos'. Meanwhile, 99.95% of the people won't know how to unlock the boatloader so they'll just buy a new one.
Bottom-line: Manufacture's are locking the bootloader to keep you from installing ICS, Netflex, Skype, or anything else that comes down the pipe. Oh, you want the NFL package, then let me sell you this NEW a500 with it already installed. Oh, you just want to install it on the one you already own? Sorry not supported. Since your bootloader is locked, good luck loading it!
What you will see is more and more apps that only run on ICS. Also, inside ICS will be LIB's in the /system/lib folder required to run certain apps. With a locked bootloader, you cannot add the required Lib's yet alone a OS. More proof, look at how many OEM's are now doing their own market place? If ACER locks you into ACER's market place then they make the millions. Again, follow the money. They are locking these to keep you contained inside their box and to make you buy and upgrade, period. There's no money in hardware, IBM said that what 15 years ago, HP this year? ACER wants to lock you into their market place, run only their applications, etc. That's what's happening here and why ICS will be something they can make money on. Therefore, don't hold your breath on any free ICS.
Lastly, ICS requires more memory, more video, more horsepower to run. Nvidia has already released a whole new architecture for ICS. Now you want the real bad news? They are building in additional security, and they claim that it will be impossible to root. Well, we all know how those claims go, but software exploits just might be a thing of the past. And how many of us are going to get out the soldering iron and paperclips to jumper in a bootloader unlock like gamers do on gaming stations?
Again, you can ***** and moan all you want, but ACER wants to make money and providing FREE ICS I'm sorry to say, just doesn't add money to the bottom line.
TD
---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 AM ----------
ACER's direction - Future strategy going forward:
1. ACER has locked the bootloader to keep users from installing ICS. Therefore, they can offer a new series of devices for consumers to purchase for those wanting ICS.
2. The new Nvidia chip set and boot loader for ICS is locked from the factory from the beginning and with new and improved security and protocols. Since these tablets were never released unlocked, unlocking them will be very difficult. Only software security exploits can be used, however they can be easily fixed with an OTA.
3. ACER will deploy a new series of applications that only run on ICS with specific lib's contained in system/lib with out these library's certain applications will not run. ACER will exploit this to force vendors to use the ACER market place. If you want to watch movies, then you'll have to have an application from ACER's market place.
a. ACER will still allow general apps to be installed that conform to the ICS API, however applications that are potentially a revenue stream (for ACER) will need to be obtained from ACER's market place therefore they can charge the software vendor. Example, NetFlex application will still be free to the user, however the only version that runs is the one downloaded from ACER. Skype, the same thing. User's won't care, because to them it's still free. But to the software vendor it is not free, they will be charged by ACER to place their application on the market place.
I can go on and on. I do not work for ACER, nor claim to have any inside information. This is just my opinion gathered from various chats and reading articles on various sites. It is sort of the 'wild-wild-west' of the tablet world right now and everyone is trying to do a land grab. If you don't think this is possible then just look to the past. Remember AOL, Compuserve? You were locked into their network and they controlled it, but you don't have to look there. Look at the Kindle Fire, Lenovo, etc etc. They are all trying to be the next Apple, including Google with their Motorola division that they purchased.
anyway my 2 ¢
TD
---------- Post added at 06:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------
qhinton said:
I keep up with the technology blogs and Acer is updating this tablet plus A100 by April. As far as all the other stuff Acer has recently said this week that they are focusing less on making new Android products but making great hardware and attracting customers by supporting software with updates.
http://androidandme.com/2011/12/dev...id-devices-catching-on-acer-joining-the-pack/
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Good point in this post, but it's just a reporters opinion of what they said happened when consumers pushed back when Samsung announced it would not offer ICS. Again, all they said was they'd re-think it. If you read the ACER press release and CEO J.T. Wang from their conference. You can see ACER is going after software, and services, he says it over and over again and locking the bootloader is part of their strategy.
You have to really look at nVidia’s Tegra 3, and the architecture behind ICS. Trying to make it run on today's hardware devices isn't worth the engineering effort.
Then you have MS and Intel breathing down your neck with Windows 8. Not to mention the ARM architecture wanting a piece of the Windows 8 action. As Scotty would say, "Captain, I can't change the laws of physics" and current platforms don't support ICS. Meaning, it will be about as affective as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
TD

Jeez dude, tinfoil hat much? They locked the bootloader because they're tired of all the idiots bricking their devices and returning them for warranty. The way to stop everyone from bootlegging ics on their devices and bricking them, and keeping their customer base happy long term is to release it officially.
Lots of companies make lots of money selling gadgets. If they want to try and supplement that with their own market they may, but it would be suicide to lock people into that. Only Amazon and Apple will get away with that and if they try to compete in that space they'll get killed.
My $.02

rbtconsultants said:
Jeez dude, tinfoil hat much? They locked the bootloader because they're tired of all the idiots bricking their devices and returning them for warranty. The way to stop everyone from bootlegging ics on their devices and bricking them, and keeping their customer base happy long term is to release it officially.
Lots of companies make lots of money selling gadgets. If they want to try and supplement that with their own market they may, but it would be suicide to lock people into that. Only Amazon and Apple will get away with that and if they try to compete in that space they'll get killed.
My $.02
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Love the hat comment <lol>
I do not buy into locking the device to keep costs down. In all the documents obtained from ACER, there's no mention of it. They only mention locking the device to secure software and preventing people from pirating. No mention of stupid people bricking them.
And up until they locked the boot loader, it was IMPOSSIBLE to brick a500. Let me restate that, it was impossible to brick an ACER a500 before they locked the bootloader. Because, all you had to do is download ACER/NFlash tool, connect your tablet to your PC, use a paperclip and poof, you flashed it back to factory. A monkey could do it, and I personally walked hundreds through it over the phone doing tech support (some I think were monkey's or at least about as smart).
Also, there are hundreds of reasons why the a500 would lock up (brick) and non of them were because of stupid user's trying to root them. Matter of fact, according to ACER's own tech support personnel, they now get more tablets returned then they did before because they cannot walk users through reloading them. Also, the VP of support brought it to J. T's attention that locking the bootloader was incurring increase costs. He snapped, and flew off the handle stating that like it or not, the bootloader will stay locked and if there's an increase in returns they'll just have to work through it.
TD

TD...no offense dude, but what a damned killjoy. =p
Reminds me of the sort of person who can only see the negative in everything, which is sad really.
Cheer up, eat an orange, watch kittens on youtube...something.
Peace

How about chemistry? I think I'm going to take a bunch of beer and turn it into urine.
Anyway, happy new year to all. You know all this rooting is a mute point away, isn't it? Doesn't the world end next year on 21 Dec 2012 anyway?
Well off to chemistry class.
Cheers,
TD

haha, that works too. Beer is good!
btw...meant no disrespect

gaddenar said:
haha, that works too. Beer is good!
btw...meant no disrespect
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None taken, nice to have people appreciate chemistry.
Cheers,
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------
Lastly, I wanted to share that another company I use to ***** about locked their bootloader.
They finally changed their way because enough of us complained enough about it. We all need to do voice our opinion to ACER and get them to change as well.
Please read this http://htcdev.com/bootloader

i hope ics will come soon. Compared to my galaxy nexus the a500 feels realy sluggish.
Im on root so any custom xoom or transformer custom ics rom will do

timmyDean said:
Voting with our pocketbook, is correct. But we should have all walked when they locked the bootloader, don't you think?
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Click to collapse
How do you walked away when you already have bought the device?
All you have to have is ONE OTA come down and 'lady I'll get rich' looses access to the pictures she took of her dead husband. And lets say he died in Iraq, just to pour it on. So here's the grieving widow, of a fallen American hero, on national TV crying her eyes out that ACER pushed ICS and now she's lost the only pictures (oh and lets say a few videos) of her late husband.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lay off the tinfoil-hat, please. Acer won't be pushing ICS unless they can be fairly certain such a thing doesn't happen under normal circumstances. If the user has e.g. rooted their device then Acer isn't liable for possible damages as that is no longer "normal circumstances" nor intended use of the device.
That's why they locked the bootloader so you cannot install ICS.
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I'd say they locked it to stop every Joe Average from screwing up their tablets and then taking it to warranty.
More proof, look at how many OEM's are now doing their own market place?
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Let's see... Apple, check. Amazon, check. Google, check. Samsung? Not check. HTC? Not check. Notice the trend? It's all the really big ones that ALREADY have enough of a muscle to throw such things around, not just plain device manufacturers. Acer/Samsung/HTC/etc. would just drive themselves to the ground if they went that way, they simply do not have the marketshare or muscle to be able to do that, nor do they have the required expertise.
That's what's happening here and why ICS will be something they can make money on.
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What's happening here is someone WAY too comfortable in his tinfoil-hat making desperate rants on the Internets while making himself look like a lunatic (which he likely is.)
Well, we all know how those claims go, but software exploits just might be a thing of the past.
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There is no way of making 100% exploit-proof OS unless your OS actually accepts no input from any device whatsoever.
And how many of us are going to get out the soldering iron and paperclips to jumper in a bootloader unlock like gamers do on gaming stations?
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Well, you can count atleast me in. Not that my PS3 required that either, software exploit works just fine.

WereCatf said:
How do you walked away when you already have bought the device?
Lay off the tinfoil-hat, please. Acer won't be pushing ICS unless they can be fairly certain such a thing doesn't happen under normal circumstances. If the user has e.g. rooted their device then Acer isn't liable for possible damages as that is no longer "normal circumstances" nor intended use of the device.
I'd say they locked it to stop every Joe Average from screwing up their tablets and then taking it to warranty.
Let's see... Apple, check. Amazon, check. Google, check. Samsung? Not check. HTC? Not check. Notice the trend? It's all the really big ones that ALREADY have enough of a muscle to throw such things around, not just plain device manufacturers. Acer/Samsung/HTC/etc. would just drive themselves to the ground if they went that way, they simply do not have the marketshare or muscle to be able to do that, nor do they have the required expertise.
What's happening here is someone WAY too comfortable in his tinfoil-hat making desperate rants on the Internets while making himself look like a lunatic (which he likely is.)
There is no way of making 100% exploit-proof OS unless your OS actually accepts no input from any device whatsoever.
Well, you can count atleast me in. Not that my PS3 required that either, software exploit works just fine.
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Agree 100% except for the fact that samsung actually have its own apps market, accessible via its samsung apps application.puny in comparison, but its there.
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