I would personally like to sarcasticly thank all of the noobs that did not take the time to carefully read steps they should take to cid unlock their phone and/or flash cooked roms. I would also like to thank the noobs who joined in the past two weeks that flooded the board with useless threads about commonly known and answered problems. thabk you for not searching. it is because of you guys bricking your phones and calling up your carriers to replace your device that should not have been tampered with in the first place. thank you for causing so much uproar that it got microsoft, htc, and carrier's attention. you guys are the greatest. we will no longer have to worry about the convience of downloading roms from the ftp. now we can roll our sleeves up and search for the roms. good going guys! please continue to post links so that microsoft and others can further complain and send ultimatums until xda-devlopers close for good. having a forum to discuss problems that microsoft or carriers don't address is to easy. we should all try to have some patience and wait on microsoft to release fixes and patches. even though they already got our money, as did carrier x, and as did htc... we should have faith that they will put priority of existing customers over selling new devices.
...............
speak on it hiimcliff! well its a sad day for us nerds but we can only go up from here maybe once things cool off and the db here is cleaned up roms will be back.. if not theres always other means of getting them and just talking bout bugs here
long live xdadev
True that hiimcliff ! I couldn't have said it any better.
Well said
Well said hiimcliff
I was particularly disappointed to hear it was specifically Wizard owners who had been the primary cause :-(
All down hill from here
Lewis
Its just going to be harder from now on. But it wont stop. I like my phone thanks to this site.
i rest my case
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294316
Spot on!
hiimcliff said:
i rest my case
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294316
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Click to collapse
hahahaha that's well funny! Seriously though, Himcliff, ur exactly right, I'M 15 YEARS OLD and with NO thanks to my parents, i'm now running the Faria aku 3.3 rom, i didn't brick my phone thru CID unlocking my XDA or installing the rom. Nor did i brick my MPx200 putting on WM5
Excellent piece although I do wonder why there was a time lag between the event and your post!!! Maybe you were like me and realized that a ROM that you wanted can no longer be accessed on the FTP which results in frustration, anger etc. The main functionality of the site will always be to provide a platform for us to discuss various issues and I don't think that will change however if we cannot easily access reliable new ROM's we will not be able to upgrade the phone and therfore will loose the envirnoment that spawns new questions /ideas /direction. Unfortunetly the outcome of this action will result in a poorer product being offered to general public.
Good piece, it has reawakened my disgust at the whole scenario.
thepolice said:
hahahaha that's well funny! Seriously though, Himcliff, ur exactly right, I'M 15 YEARS OLD and with NO thanks to my parents, i'm now running the Faria aku 3.3 rom, i didn't brick my phone thru CID unlocking my XDA or installing the rom. Nor did i brick my MPx200 putting on WM5
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Click to collapse
heh, don't be so hard on your parents, without them you wouldn't be...
--M
Glad you had a good experience with the ROMs, you must have read and searched
Hi all,
I sent a support request to HTC a few days ago to basically explain that there's a lot of people that are frustrated by the fact that their updates on the support page of their website do no explain what the fixes/ROM upgrades actually do.
While this is not a particularly committed response, I just wanted to share it with you all.
My request...
johncmolyneux said:
Hi.
I would like to propose a future change for your support pages on the HTC website.
At the moment, when an update is released (hotfix, or ROM), the description is not very helpful and leaves your customers wondering what it is they are meant to be fixing. This also leaves us all wondering if anything actually has been fixed! Now I know that you wouldn't release hotfixes and ROM upgrades that did nothing, but we have no way of knowing what to expect. Here's a couple of recent descriptions of hotfixes...
"This update for HTC HD2 messaging lets you reach out to your friends and family with instant notifications. Keeping in touch has always been very important, and this update delivers just that: fast and reliable SMS messaging."
"This update for HTC HD2 allows for contacts stored on your SIM card to be properly displayed on your phone along with Phone and Exchange Server contacts."
And they are just the last 2.
They have all been like that, as I am sure you are aware. I have never heard of a company that releases updates without telling their customers what to expect.
Can you PLEASE in future give a real description? This would include what bugs are being addressed, and what new features are included. This is common practice for most companies, and I expect the same high level of concern for customer needs from HTC, of whom I am a loyal fan. Please consider this. There's a very large community of very frustrated users out here, and it would be very simple to make things better for them.
Thank you in advance.
John.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And their response...
HTC Support said:
I agree with you that this is a good idea. The latest update does include the Camera and SMS fix. We have noted your comments and suggestions. Please keep an eye on our support section for any future changes.
Thank you
Best regards,
Mat. B. HTC
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Click to collapse
Like I said, it's not a particularly committed response, but something, nonetheless.
Fingers crossed
i think its good that they will consider it... their descriptions are pretty useless and could tell us proper information about patches and hotfixes etc... but at least you got a response from them..
i think HTC's main problem when it comes to issues like that, is that theyr all of a suddein trying to be this young cool, hip company producing phones for the average joe, instead of ppl who like to dig abit deeper into the phone. so its easier to post a update description that ultimately tells you absolutely nothing but atleast sounds cool. rather then a large detailed post wich nobody of the new user group they are trying to reach would understand
Possibly, yeah, but it's pretty pointless to just put rubbish when you could at least say "fixes x and y issues". Even someone non-technical knows if there text messages aren't being sent, and would like to know that a hotfix is going to address that.
I just think they don't like admitting there was a bug in the first place.
richardirv said:
I just think they don't like admitting there was a bug in the first place.
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Unfortunately in today's litigious society that's all too often the case with large organisations. It would be more positive for the typical consumer (i.e the one's not looking for easy fiscal gain) if the companies publicly recognised the fault and offered-up a fix/workaround at the earliest opportunity and not least kept their customers informed.
richardirv said:
I just think they don't like admitting there was a bug in the first place.
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Click to collapse
Could be a cultural thing, too... In my professional life, I deal a lot with engineers from the asian/pacific region and I can tell you that it took for ages until they realized that admitting an error and showing that you are willing to work on it is NOT seen as a sign of weakness but as a sign of strength in the western world.
I don't know if that's the case with the people who wrote the hotfix descriptions at HTC but if I'm right, we should rather encourage them instead of simply complain about their
texts.
Just my 2 cents...
m_g said:
we should rather encourage them instead of simply complain about their texts.
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Click to collapse
I think you forgot the fact that we do encourage them - we give them a lot of money for their products. And it's not a complaint anyway. If you read the email I sent them it was a request, not a complaint.
I don't take the line that some people on here do, shouting from the rooftops that HTC have betrayed us because of a few simple issues that are being ironed out. I'm very happy with the device (and have been with all my HTC devices), but I'm not happy with the lack of information they give us when they release a fix.
I simply want to know what a fix actually does, not how important keeping in touch is. I know that. That's why I bought the phone.
johncmolyneux said:
If you read the email I sent them it was a request, not a complaint.
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Click to collapse
John,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not quite sure whether I understand why you appear to be so heated, since I wasn't questioning your original post, in fact I was't even referring to it.
I think your email to HTC was very well written, you pointed out a problem that keeps annoying me ever since I first stumbled across the HTC suport site and you did that in a kind and decent way and the response you got from the (UK?) support staff shows that at least the folks at the local first level support are quite aware of the problem.
On the other hand, however, I still think I made a valid point. When dealing with international partners, it's allways wise to put oneself in the other one's position for a second. And I, for my part, can hear the typical asian flowery and long-winded way of not-telling that there was something wrong in every single hotfix description I read so far ...
From my experience, they're not going to change that anytime soon, at least not in the announcement texts that are prominently readable on the download site. Instead, we should insist on a detailed ChangeLog.txt we can download from somewhere. Thanks again for your email to HTC and lets hope for the best
Cheers, M.
Asking in a nice way gets results i see, maybe better to ask for an update instead of demanding one.....
kk
m_g said:
John,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not quite sure whether I understand why you appear to be so heated, since I wasn't questioning your original post, in fact I was't even referring to it.
I think your email to HTC was very well written, you pointed out a problem that keeps annoying me ever since I first stumbled across the HTC suport site and you did that in a kind and decent way and the response you got from the (UK?) support staff shows that at least the folks at the local first level support are quite aware of the problem.
On the other hand, however, I still think I made a valid point. When dealing with international partners, it's allways wise to put oneself in the other one's position for a second. And I, for my part, can hear the typical asian flowery and long-winded way of not-telling that there was something wrong in every single hotfix description I read so far ...
From my experience, they're not going to change that anytime soon, at least not in the announcement texts that are prominently readable on the download site. Instead, we should insist on a detailed ChangeLog.txt we can download from somewhere. Thanks again for your email to HTC and lets hope for the best
Cheers, M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh - I wasn't being heated mate - I was just making a point about something you'd said.
Read this.. haha
http://gizmodo.com/5566747/htc-cracks-down-on-rom-hackers-with-cease-and-desist-letter
NOTICE
Just to let everyone know that I will be carefully monitoring this thread to make sure that everyone complies with the forum rules and that nothing gets out of hand. This means staying on topic at all times, no flaming or anything of the like. If I find that any member violates any of the forum rules I will close this thread and the member(s) may even be banned!
Thank you in advance.
am I violating XDA?
kencix said:
am I violating XDA?
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Click to collapse
No. Posting information regarding HTC is allowed as long as it is from a legitimate source. Since you are simply posting a link regarding the C&D from HTC to shipped-roms.com everything is fine. However, I will be keeping a close eye on this thread because I expect that many members will reply with negative comments regarding HTC's legal decision. Which may lead up to flaming, bashing, disrespect toward others, off topic comments, slander toward HTC/Shipped-Roms.com, etc. All of which are not allowed on XDA-Developers and may result in a membership ban if any of the forum rules are broken. Since it is my duty to moderate threads in the forum I am only warning every reader in this thread that I will have a zero (0) tolerance toward any violators.
Other than that... have a nice discussion.
I am not happy with that either..
Wonder how this will effect the XDA Android with HTC sense developer community.
Is this only to avoid redistribute of their shipped roms, or is it to avoid rom cooking with HTC sense? Are they pissed after seeing sense running on Motorola droid?
Hope they won't take this to far and prevent sharing of HTC sense cooked roms. If so, then i guess i better prepare myself on using vanilla (did that already while waiting for a stable/working Froyo rom)
On the one hand, HTC is completely within their rights; that website is illegally distributing HTC's proprietary code/software.
On the other hand, if it werent for the rom community, HTC probably wouldn't be where they are now. They should be a little more understanding. Maybe they can work out something like Google did with cyanogen.
HTC is slow with their updates.
Maybe that's the reason why people build custom roms. Not maybe, but 100%
Anyways.. I'm considering to buy Samsung next time. Don't believe HTC anymore.
They talk and promise a lot, but still nothing from them..
I guess giving out information on their future releases is annoying HTC. However I don't see the problem on making better ROM's and other stuff, its not like they are loosing money from it.
that site has RUU hosted there.
that is the problem!
blizard80 said:
that site has RUU hosted there.
that is the problem!
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Click to collapse
Did you read their letter? Cause the letter clearly state that it has something to do with his site hosting HTC Intellectual Property. Here we are talking about artwork and sense which is NOT open source. Correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i understand their, letter it might as well concern us to.
Please don't discount me as some ignorant noob despite my fairly low profile account.
I actually used to have an HTC Touch Pro 2 and used to flash custom ROMs like it was my job but once I got an EVO I decided against it because I didn't really have any complaints with the stock system. Until now of course.
I accepted the OTA update over the air without really knowing what it was. So I decided to go online and research what was actually included in the update and after doing some XDA searching was quickly refreshed on the joys of flashing customs. In the painful irony of it all, I quickly realized that by accepting the update I had screwed myself into some custom flashing purgatory where I suffer from that "itch" for a new custom ROM that we all know.
Anyways, long story short, I was wondering if there was any type of sticky/thread that is continuously updated on the progress of a 2.3.3 exploit or maybe the progress of the unrevoked team so that when I search for that sense of hope multiple times a day I can simply check one location. I did some searching for such a thread but returned no results.
Thanks in advance and hats off to the devs for all that they do.
damn....that sux that you had no complaints until AFTER the OTA update. thats definitely a bad stroke of luck.
I would say, in the mean time, try out different home launchers to try to get the different feel for them (i.e. if it's the Sense launcher that's bugging you, change it up ) I like both LPP (LauncherPro Plus) and ADW...tho I prefer LPP
and to answer the main question: No...there isnt a sticky or thread discussing the progress of the root exploit.
freddykrue said:
I accepted the OTA update over the air without really knowing what it was. So I decided to go online and research what was actually included in the update and after doing some XDA searching was quickly refreshed on the joys of flashing customs. In the painful irony of it all, I quickly realized that by accepting the update I had screwed myself into some custom flashing purgatory where I suffer from that "itch" for a new custom ROM that we all know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hopefully the devs will get the exploit out soon so 1)we stop getting the threads demanding the exploit (im not saying this is one of them...just saying that there have been 1 too many of those threads as of late) 2) so that you can start experiencing that "itch" again
I personally will take the OTA and then reroot after the exploit is out so that I'll know how to help others
Progress won't be mentioned until the actual exploit is found, so there's no need to search for a progress report. Until the exploit is found, the progress would be "nothing yet"... so that's pointless to post. As soon as a root method is made, you won't have to search for it. Go to the Evo Q&A section and you'll see questions about it - you'll see discussion & celebration in the General section. You'll probably see the root method itself (unless it's Unrevoked) in the Development section. You won't have to go past the first page to know it's here.
That being said, there's no need for a sticky. And unless you're trying to build a root method yourself, no need to search.
People have to realize that these devs do this in their free time, for free. It bothers me that people that have never given these devs anything expect the new root method now. I'm not talking about you, but so many others come here whining about nobody telling them when it will be ready or about nobody rooting it yet, as if they're owed something. If I had the skills to find a root exploit, I would stop working on it because of these kids *****ing and moaning.
Again, I'm not talking about you... I'm just ranting.
I agree completely. I found it funny that you guys call these guys "trolls." It's perfect. On the PPCGeeks forums back when I was flashing for my HTC Diamond we just called them douchebags but I like trolls, it's clever.
I also wish I had the skills to discover the exploit. I would love to give back to the community. It's all a little over my head though. I'm just another guy reaping the benefits of those generous enough to provide a more enjoyable experience from our devices and liberation from the corporate *cough* horsesh;t.
freddykrue said:
I agree completely. I found it funny that you guys call these guys "trolls." It's perfect. On the PPCGeeks forums back when I was flashing for my HTC Diamond we just called them douchebags but I like trolls, it's clever.
I also wish I had the skills to discover the exploit. I would love to give back to the community. It's all a little over my head though. I'm just another guy reaping the benefits of those generous enough to provide a more enjoyable experience from our devices and liberation from the corporate *cough* horsesh;t.
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Click to collapse
the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.
detusueno said:
the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.
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Click to collapse
The HTC Diamond is like 3 or 4 years old by now. These days that's an eternity. I tried using my old diamond for a week or so a couple of months ago, and while I still love the size and form factor, I can't stand the lag factor. The os of windows mobile doesn't bother me, but the lack of power sure does.
detusueno said:
the worst part of this thread is that you think you're experienced/old school 'cause you used to flash a diamond. dude, that phone is pretty new in my mind. sit down and read. if it comes up, it'll come up.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't consider myself old school at all but I would say I have experience. I was flashing for about 2 or 3 years with a combination of the Diamond and TP2.
I'm not crediting myself with any kind of "elderly knowledge" if that's what your concerned about. Some newbs probably know more than me definitely with the Evo being a different OS altogether.
And yes, I loved the phone but the lag was unbearable.
I upgraded to BOG5 but found unable to downgrade and root.
Can anyone help me solve this peoblem
I would be very grateful
a133232 said:
I upgraded to BOG5 but found unable to downgrade and root.
Can anyone help me solve this peoblem
I would be very grateful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one can help you solve this problem. BOG5 cannot be downgraded and it cannot be rooted. Period. End of story.
landshark68 said:
No one can help you solve this problem. BOG5 cannot be downgraded and it cannot be rooted. Period. End of story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's always JTAG...right?
dreamwave said:
There's always JTAG...right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please stop misinforming new people. I told you why JTAG wouldn't work before you even made your lengthy JTAG "brick" thread (which you referred back to your other nonsensical "petition" thread - the exact thread where I answered you WHY JTAG wouldn't work - in the end because you have absolutely no idea what you're doing).
Just remove this thread already. Or sticky it so there's a chance people will read it and never ask this stupid question again...
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Spartan117H3 said:
Please stop misinforming new people. I told you why JTAG wouldn't work before you even made your lengthy JTAG "brick" thread (which you referred back to your other nonsensical "petition" thread - the exact thread where I answered you WHY JTAG wouldn't work - in the end because you have absolutely no idea what you're doing).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you reply in those words? I didn't get any of that out of what you said, unfortunately. Also, on the topic of the "petition" it was mainly to try and inform at least a couple more people and possibly gain a couple more arguments that could be used against Verizon through the FCC. I have a valid legal argument, one that you were being pessimistic about with really no backing, and on the JTAG issue...you didn't offer any reason why that was so, and so I didn't back down at the first sight of doubt. I don't mean to be defensive or aggressive in any way, but I respectfully took your opinion into account (and it was indeed an opinion on many of those matters), factored in the overall theme of posts you had made in the past, and decided that there was (and still is) possibility for solutions in each of these issues. Unless JTAG is specifically disabled at the hardware level (which was actually proven false by what I found and documented in my thread) it is still feasible to use it to modify the Qfuse flags.
dreamwave said:
Where did you reply in those words? I didn't get any of that out of what you said, unfortunately. Also, on the topic of the "petition" it was mainly to try and inform at least a couple more people and possibly gain a couple more arguments that could be used against Verizon through the FCC. I have a valid legal argument, one that you were being pessimistic about with really no backing, and on the JTAG issue...you didn't offer any reason why that was so, and so I didn't back down at the first sight of doubt. I don't mean to be defensive or aggressive in any way, but I respectfully took your opinion into account (and it was indeed an opinion on many of those matters), factored in the overall theme of posts you had made in the past, and decided that there was (and still is) possibility for solutions in each of these issues. Unless JTAG is specifically disabled at the hardware level (which was actually proven false by what I found and documented in my thread) it is still feasible to use it to modify the Qfuse flags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your petition, you keep saying, you have "valid" arguments. If you do, why do you need to keep continuing the thread? Go take it to court then. Start a class action lawsuit. You are correct, what I stated there is my opinion. Pessimistic about? You wrote so many pages for no reason. What does information do if you don't use it? All you were doing was talking about it. I was telling you why it doesn't work, and why Verizon doesn't have to respond to you, a single person, unless you were to take legal action against them, and even then, you are highly unlikely to win. By all means, take it to court. But know that talking doesn't change anything. If you want to argue that publicity is your motive, the 18k bounty got a thousand times more publicity, and the bootloader is STILL unlocked. There were also actual petition threads that people signed at change.com/etc, that have more "weight" than your thread, yet it is, again, locked still. I bet you the devs care more about a bootloader unlock than you do, because that's what most of their work/fun comes from. What did most of them do? Most (not all) of them jumped ship to Tmobile/international versions.
I took your opinion into account, but your legal backing to my eyes is simply, "Verizon must tell ME why/respond to MY claims as a sole person, not, Verizon has no basis for their argument (as I'm sure they have it somewhere, companies always try to hide their asses)." So like I said, go take it to court, by all means. I'm not being rude, I'm just saying, do something about it if you really believe what you think is right. It's also not pessimistic although you view it that way probably because it opposes your opinion, it's realistic and I've given you logical reasons why, whereas you just keep stating, Verizon has some obligation to respond to you.
As for the JTAG, I stated in one of the reasons why a bootloader unlock is not possible:
Spartan117H3 said:
...If you took the time to look at other threads ranging from the S3, Note 4, etc, you'll learn that the S5 isn't the only one. Also, the reason the Devs don't work on it is because a failed bootloader exploit bricks the phone so that not even a JTAG will revive it....
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Click to collapse
The devs already tried this. All you did was write a multi page post talking back and forth with yourself and new people who have no knowledgeable backing. Look back through your thread. The only support you had was from new people, you probably double posted more than their posts. I think only one senior member responded.
Spartan117H3 said:
For your petition...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do apologize for trying a method that I saw absolutely no documentation on any attempts of, it was a fool of me to try and see if it might just work. You said that JTAG would not work, you gave no links and no reasons why. I understand that there might be a kill flag in there, but if the phone believes itself to be running genuine software I don't see much in the way of proof that it wouldn't accept any firmware rewrite then, especially as at that point Samsung and Verizon would stand to benefit from being able to directly write such firmware. The petition was simply to get even just a couple more eyes on the issue, and with the FCC...IT ACTUALLY IS A LEGAL CASE. I have tried to say that, that they are given ,by forfeit of direct control of the issues by Congress and the courts, a requirement that they use internal systems that are run as courts and have the power of a court, while being only possible to challenge if they act "unconstitutionally" outside their given bounds. The petition was a thing I started basically to try and let people outside of the developer community, who are demographically very likely to be vocal on issues of corporate monopoly (based on the crowd change(dot)org attracts.
I tried doing my research for each, and in basic principle found none that matched either. No, I'm not a longstanding member of the XDA community, and no I'm not an ex-oem firmware dev, but if I have an idea and no one gives me a specific reason why it won't work in a manner that would both completely address all facets of it and in a way that would help others to try and build off of the information contained within, then I will try and implement that idea or publicize it so someone who knows how can do it. Notice, on my thread about the SD Card unlock: I completely summarized the content of my findings in the first post, dead ends I ran into, and what I personally think might work in the future. If someone adds to the thread with info that either adds or nullifies an idea then I will update it and tag the post as I care about knowledge on a whole and getting info to everyone who can use it. My rationale behind this is to allow for anyone who might have an idea, or the capability to form a successful one, to research and take into account the findings of others.
TL;DR: It helps everyone, individually and as a community, to explain why an idea won't work than just to declare that it won't and the person's efforts (all of them) are in vain.
I do not mean to insult you or attack you in any way, and I have no "but" or "however" for this statement. Just for the future, instead of saying "no" and then flaming me when I say "why not," maybe say "why not" because if you know that the answer is "no," not that many issues are so black and white that a small bit of explanation or detail physically can't be given.
BTW, in response to one of your replies in a recent thread where you mentioned how a brick would not be possible to undo even by JTAG then talked about that being universal, what I was discussing was not bricking by means of triggering any lock such as that that you mention. I was attempting to reproduce conditions that would lead to a "failed flash of newer software" wherein no flag is tripped, but the phone could not load any usable kernel, modem, or bootloader image as that would allow for using the method here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/g900v-hard-brick-t2914847 that I have really worked on for the s3 to try and boot custom software to flash software to the phone. I am actually still optimistic for one method here because no one has said that it would not boot a very carefully crafted debrick image that would act as an external bootstrap and directly load a completely custom system image quite readily with no qualifiers or signature checks.
And sorry to everyone for the long post, I know it's annoying. Please forgive me :fingers-crossed:
@dreamwave, I mentioned that they were found by researching other phones that have bootloaders locked. There is one phone (I forget which one) where they (I believe two developers) DID get a successful bootloader unlock, but because they bricked so many phones that a JTAG would not fix, they sold bootloader unlocks for $25 a pop to recoup costs for the loss. But it was the phone itself, not a carrier specific version of a bootloader unlock. Meaning that phone worked on all carriers. I know you said you wanted links or whatnot, but it's on 100% XDA, and I'm on my phone right now/don't remember where I read it.
I gave you sound logic of why your solutions do not work, and if you take the time to think about what I say, instead of referring back to your own original statement, you would understand why. That's the thing. I state the reason why, whether or not you follow along with it is entirely up to you. I did not flame you in any way, I always responded with reasons why. It's just like you said, you were promoting awareness for people who are legally sound. But nothing was done, yet you keep continuing/promoting the thread, to what end? You're not going to do anything yourself. So why beat the dead horse?
You're right. I don't have hard documentation of answers. But you act like this is the first phone that has been attempted to be bootloader unlocked. There are threads in other forums for other phones that have been tested. There's also a plethora of sound reasoning against what you're trying to do. Do you need scientific proof and factual documentation that wind exists, or can you tell it exists because you can feel it on your skin?
If I have time later/if you want, I can find the links to what I'm talking about or you can look yourself, but for what it's worth, the developers work together in private to deter people from asking nonsensical questions such as, is it done yet/etc. As I'm not a developer (I just looked up this stuff in my free time), I don't have access to your hard evidence. But it has been stated that what you tried has been done on multiple phones in the past. If me saying that, or me finding the quote of someone saying that isn't enough for you, then by all means, go try it yourself. Developers will not come forward to tell you their progress for the reason I mentioned, so if you're looking for that, you won't find it.
@Spartan117H3
That is certainly reasonably sound logic for the most part, and I understand that many of them do it in private, but if you knew about it, especially other than just "no it doesn't work" for a specific experiment, it would be great if you wrote where any roadblock would lay and maybe a reference to where I could learn more about it. I learned that a major roadblock to parts of that method are the self verification of the bootloader and the external signature check from the SoC itself. What I am hoping to do is see whether or not the signature check and the load file commands are separate or integrated. If they are integrated, then that's probably the end of trying to use the SD Card, but if they are separate then it should be possible to dynamically alter the contents of the card after the initial signature check. Of course it's possible that it doesn't do the same signature check for an external SD card, in which case just modifying it to act as a permanent bootstrap would be entirely feasible.
I know that a lot of people have tried and failed, but if no one has tried this one specifically to its full extent I'd like to go for it. Just someone telling me no doesn't show me that they know what they're talking about. Someone telling me no, and then offering a little bit of a clue why (even just saying they found somewhere where someone tried the method then ran into (blank) as an issue) definitely helps me to try and either find a different method or a way around that issue or roadblock.
Also, I remember you telling me JTAG wouldn't work, but never addressing the SD card method... I can't seem to find any of your posts on my thread, though (a few on the petition one, but mostly didn't recognize the FCC as the deciding body, instead stating justification on the part of Verizon.) The FCC decides what their regulations say and mean, just as the courts do, and require adherence to those interpretations. No standing precedent exists that stands on Verizon's side on this issue from the arguments presented so I'm going for it, and just letting everyone know how it's going and leaving it open to discussion and reply if they have an idea that I might pursue to help my case
@dreamwave, what you are asking is the same as what this guy was "trying" to ask:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
And the third post by the moderator clarified. As we have already discussed, you don't have enough knowledge (nor do I for that matter) to successfully start and finish a solution. It's like, if we were to build a building with just a hammer and some dirt. Why don't we leave the building process to the engineers? If you actually do have enough knowledge, contact a developer to get into their private work. Otherwise, you'll leave a building unfinished, cluttering up the streets, so to speak.
Basically, you're asking for either A, someone to go along with you in whatever process you try to do (in which case, it would be easier and quicker for a dev to do it his/herself), or B, just to see where progress is, in which case, it is not useful to you nor I, because it's another "are we there yet" question, and we wouldn't be able to continue with it anyway.
You don't know if it has or hasn't been tried, but I'm sure it's been thought of. You are doing it for free of your own accord. You don't think devs would want that 18k bounty way back when? Like I said above, if you have the knowledge, by all means, contact a developer, prove your worth, and I'm sure he/she will let you into their work, with all their notes or whatnot of what they tried that worked/didn't work.
If the bootloader is locked, that means unsigned code is not allowed at the lowest level. Why would an SD card work, when it goes through the OS which goes through the bootloader? Your idea of a JTAG makes a tiny bit more sense than the SD card one, because JTAG is at low hardware level. I didn't bother posting in your thread, because I figured you'd do what you want to regardless of what people say.
I recognized the FCC argument. I don't have an answer against that, but I'm sure/assuming Verizon does. But my justification was, why does Verizon have to answer to you specifically. You don't have a case because you're not going to court with it.
Edit: I can't remember for the life of me where I read about this stuff, all I remember was searching for some very specific bootloader question (a month ago?) that I wanted to know the answer to. The person was describing why root is so easy to achieve compared to a bootloader unlock and said something along the lines of: for root, all you have to do is inject stuff into a rom and see if it sticks. For a bootloader exploit, a failed attempt bricks the phone so that not even a JTAG will salvage it.
The search also led me to a phone which I also don't remember, I believe it was something older, but two devs "charged" $25 per unlock to recover the costs of the phones they bricked.
It is similar to the HTC M9 where people buy expensive Java cards to unlock phones, and unlock them based on donations, but not the same. I'll keep looking to see if I can pull it up.
@dreamwave, Found it, it was actually the HTC M8, so I was close in my edit above. Note, this post also talks about failed bootloaders killing the phone. And note again the reason that counters your petition, but it has no "hard evidence" other than "some person" says it. But it makes logical sense, so it should be left as is (in my opinion, unless you have profound knowledge that says otherwise, because I know I don't). Verizon doesn't need to prove anything to anyone who isn't suing them, or who isn't causing red tape for them. It's a post by a recognized contributor quoting a moderator, the closest you'll get to what you want.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=54644576&postcount=10
The Java card that people are using do currently work for both the HTC M8 and M9, but are limited and expensive in comparison to the Sunshine exploit that they charge $25 for (look at the bottom of this post)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=54126788&postcount=359
This is all I can provide for you in terms of hard facts. It is the conclusion made on older phones, and applies even more so on newer/current ones. Hope this helps.
Spartan117H3 said:
@dreamwave, Found it, it was actually the HTC M8, so I was close in my edit above. Note, this post also talks about failed bootloaders killing the phone. And note again the reason that counters your petition, but it has no "hard evidence" other than "some person" says it. But it makes logical sense, so it should be left as is (in my opinion, unless you have profound knowledge that says otherwise, because I know I don't). Verizon doesn't need to prove anything to anyone who isn't suing them, or who isn't causing red tape for them. It's a post by a recognized contributor quoting a moderator, the closest you'll get to what you want.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=54644576&postcount=10
The Java card that people are using do currently work for both the HTC M8 and M9, but are limited and expensive in comparison to the Sunshine exploit that they charge $25 for (look at the bottom of this post)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=54126788&postcount=359
This is all I can provide for you in terms of hard facts. It is the conclusion made on older phones, and applies even more so on newer/current ones. Hope this helps.
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Thanks, that helps a lot with the SD card thing and my idea there. As to the legal issue though, I disagree a bit with the person there, as though it is in Verizon's interest to keep locking them, well the letter of the law is the letter of the law...and I spoke to someone who isn't a lawyer by practice but did take the BAR exam, what they said was basically that "A lawsuit would be possible if I suffered damages, but wouldn't do much to their practices necessarily. Going through the FCC would involve two steps: a trial in which they will determine if a violation has occurred (my opinion is that one has occurred, and I posted as my last post on the JTAG unlock discussion thread my current arguments), and then a second trial in which remediatory actions/consequences will be decided. This would cover retroactive steps, which would likely include a system whereby a signed patch would be created, and customized (upon request to download) to respond to a specific IMEI/model number. This would allow for a corporation or licensing group to exclude a set of devices while allowing consumer versions to be unlocked. It really doesn't cost me anything to pursue this, and if it annoys Big Red and that's it, then so be it...I'm happy if it does Of course on the same note, Verizon hasn't specifically countered any of my statements/observations, and have really tried to exploit little technicalities such as footnotes 500 and 502 in the FCC auction release, but in each I was able to create responses that very directly opposed those in a way supported by a large amount of text in the release. I'm hoping it will work, even if I wouldn't bet a million bucks on it doing so.
dreamwave said:
Thanks, that helps a lot with the SD card thing and my idea there. As to the legal issue though, I disagree a bit with the person there, as though it is in Verizon's interest to keep locking them, well the letter of the law is the letter of the law...and I spoke to someone who isn't a lawyer by practice but did take the BAR exam, what they said was basically that "A lawsuit would be possible if I suffered damages, but wouldn't do much to their practices necessarily. Going through the FCC would involve two steps: a trial in which they will determine if a violation has occurred (my opinion is that one has occurred, and I posted as my last post on the JTAG unlock discussion thread my current arguments), and then a second trial in which remediatory actions/consequences will be decided. This would cover retroactive steps, which would likely include a system whereby a signed patch would be created, and customized (upon request to download) to respond to a specific IMEI/model number. This would allow for a corporation or licensing group to exclude a set of devices while allowing consumer versions to be unlocked. It really doesn't cost me anything to pursue this, and if it annoys Big Red and that's it, then so be it...I'm happy if it does Of course on the same note, Verizon hasn't specifically countered any of my statements/observations, and have really tried to exploit little technicalities such as footnotes 500 and 502 in the FCC auction release, but in each I was able to create responses that very directly opposed those in a way supported by a large amount of text in the release. I'm hoping it will work, even if I wouldn't bet a million bucks on it doing so.
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Ok. Except exchange/military is most likely a greater majority of customers than us who want it unlocked. Time is money. Verizon hasn't countered because you're not talking to them, you're talking in a thread. Good luck with your lawsuit.
Spartan117H3 said:
Ok. Except exchange/military is most likely a greater majority of customers than us who want it unlocked. Time is money. Verizon hasn't countered because you're not talking to them, you're talking in a thread. Good luck with your lawsuit.
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Thanks (P.S.: I have an ongoing case through the FCC that's independent from XDA, a formal complaint directly to the FCC by methods they've provided)
dreamwave said:
Thanks (P.S.: I have an ongoing case through the FCC that's independent from XDA, a formal complaint directly to the FCC by methods they've provided)
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Is this really what you choose to "Live Free or Die" about? Or do you have too many irons in the fire, and this is just the most annoying? People in New Hampshire have nothing better to do than to sue Verizon for something they have no chance of winning...
ldeveraux said:
Is this really what you choose to "Live Free or Die" about? Or do you have too many irons in the fire, and this is just the most annoying? People in New Hampshire have nothing better to do than to sue Verizon for something they have no chance of winning...
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Except I'm not suing them, I'm using the methods our gov't has already put in place specifically for occasions such as this. I'm not arguing damages, it's not a lawsuit, it's an FCC complaint...something really different that I think I've explained a couple times
P.S.: I have a lot more that I do, this doesn't take much of my time and as a high school student I basically consider stuff like this a hobby, and have you ever been to New Hampshire? I'm from the southern half of middle NH...not that many "gun wielding hicks" around these parts
I got the phone from a friend who dunked it in a lake and thought it was dead, I figured I'd try and get some use out of it and discovered the larger issue on the part of Verizon. Considering the number of people at my school who ask me to root their phone, being able to tell them "sure" and not ask if they use Verizon (most of them do) first would be really nice.
...this thread got really off topic didn't it
dreamwave said:
Except I'm not suing them, I'm using the methods our gov't has already put in place specifically for occasions such as this. I'm not arguing damages, it's not a lawsuit, it's an FCC complaint...something really different that I think I've explained a couple times
P.S.: I have a lot more that I do, this doesn't take much of my time and as a high school student I basically consider stuff like this a hobby, and have you ever been to New Hampshire? I'm from the southern half of middle NH...not that many "gun wielding hicks" around these parts
I got the phone from a friend who dunked it in a lake and thought it was dead, I figured I'd try and get some use out of it and discovered the larger issue on the part of Verizon. Considering the number of people at my school who ask me to root their phone, being able to tell them "sure" and not ask if they use Verizon (most of them do) first would be really nice.
...this thread got really off topic didn't it
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High school student... nevermind, kablock...
What do you mean?