Firstly, I'm NOT a Developer - I want to make that very clear
I have been trying to get data/info about what ever happened to the Original Samsung Galaxy S4 'TouchWiz'
Camera feature/ability to be able to 'Simultaneously' record videos (not talking about taking pictures here)
with both the front and back cameras on the phone.
This question has been asked before by a very very very small number of people on the net including in XDA
developers forums, However these questions only have been asked on forums relating to NEXUS phones/devices.
When i originally bought my S4 (second hand) i used the recording feature, i absolutely love it, i think it it brilliant,
it is one of the reasons why the S4 has such appeal for me.
I later upgraded to CyanogenMod, because of privacy concerns relating to Samsungs Involvement with the NSA over
their KNOX security.
The OS seemed fine to me, but this security concern was the basis of WHY i moved over to CyanogenMod.
Then i found out, that CyanogenMod does NOT Support the Dual Camera feature.
I contacted Samsung, and they told me that the Camera app was not really an app at all, but was in fact part of the OS itself.
But remember, the Genuine Samsung Galaxy is actually model number GT-i9500, which uses the Exynos Chip, unlike the Samsung Galaxy S4
variant known as the S4 LTE GT-i9505, which uses the Qualcom Chipset.
It has also been said by some XDA developers, that Samsungs 'TouchWiz' is not Open Source, it is Closed Source.
Well belonging to the company, this is no surprise, I'll also bet that it is probably Patented as well.
I say, so what ?, CyanogenMod does NOT need the original samsung 'TouchWiz' code, it only needs to know the HardwareSpecs of the Qualcom
Chip, then programming/developing can begin.
The S4 is already Superceeded by the S5 (and any possible variant(s) of that), i feel that the GT-i9505 is getting left out of the picture.
Are there any answers to this mystery ???
The7Suggester said:
Firstly, I'm NOT a Developer - I want to make that very clear
I have been trying to get data/info about what ever happened to the Original Samsung Galaxy S4 'TouchWiz'
Camera feature/ability to be able to 'Simultaneously' record videos (not talking about taking pictures here)
with both the front and back cameras on the phone.
This question has been asked before by a very very very small number of people on the net including in XDA
developers forums, However these questions only have been asked on forums relating to NEXUS phones/devices.
When i originally bought my S4 (second hand) i used the recording feature, i absolutely love it, i think it it brilliant,
it is one of the reasons why the S4 has such appeal for me.
I later upgraded to CyanogenMod, because of privacy concerns relating to Samsungs Involvement with the NSA over
their KNOX security.
The OS seemed fine to me, but this security concern was the basis of WHY i moved over to CyanogenMod.
Then i found out, that CyanogenMod does NOT Support the Dual Camera feature.
I contacted Samsung, and they told me that the Camera app was not really an app at all, but was in fact part of the OS itself.
But remember, the Genuine Samsung Galaxy is actually model number GT-i9500, which uses the Exynos Chip, unlike the Samsung Galaxy S4
variant known as the S4 LTE GT-i9505, which uses the Qualcom Chipset.
It has also been said by some XDA developers, that Samsungs 'TouchWiz' is not Open Source, it is Closed Source.
Well belonging to the company, this is no surprise, I'll also bet that it is probably Patented as well.
I say, so what ?, CyanogenMod does NOT need the original samsung 'TouchWiz' code, it only needs to know the HardwareSpecs of the Qualcom
Chip, then programming/developing can begin.
The S4 is already Superceeded by the S5 (and any possible variant(s) of that), i feel that the GT-i9505 is getting left out of the picture.
Are there any answers to this mystery ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
Dual Camera Support - i9505
Skipjacks said:
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid I'm not completely sure i know what you mean?
Do you mean that there would only be 1 Developer out of a million who would use this feature, and therefore no support would be actioned for this ?
OR do you mean that in your opinion there are hardly any people who would own a phone like the S4 that would want to use this feature.
Why would anyone *NOT* want to do this. It's fun for one thing.
Maybe I've made a mistake but, i thought that one of the things that XDA devs were all about, was trying to fix or patch areas on OS's
where the mainstream had overlooked, and especially about importing and bringing new features about to free OS's such as CyanogenMod.
Could you please clarify i bit more carefully about, this.
Skipjacks said:
What mystery? That Cyanogen doesn't offer the ability to record with the front and back cameras at the same time?
That's not a mystery. It's that only 1 person out of a million would ever want to do that so no one is devoting their development time to integrating that feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are pretty close minded even though I don't use that feature myself.
V-bloggers love using that feature.
But I do agree with you. AOSP is suppose to provide a clean experience
Dual Camera Support - i9505
Thank you for backing me up on this issue
MrAndroid12 said:
You are pretty close minded even though I don't use that feature myself.
V-bloggers love using that feature.
But I do agree with you. AOSP is suppose to provide a clean experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
Skipjacks said:
The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't really back him up or said you were an insult.
I said that AOSP rooms should be free of non Google modifications.
But I am just telling you again that there are probably more than a million in one desiring for that feature because some people like to v-blog
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Skipjacks said:
The insults aren't needed.
I stated a fact. There is not enough desire for this feature for developers to devote time to coding it instead of coding something else that is more heavily requested.
If there were a strong desire for it developers would be looking to fill that need.
But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz. So there aren't many devs who want to spend time coding a little used feature that is already available elsewhere. Especially one they don't intend to use themselves, and not when there are more popular mods that people are asking for in droves like gps fixes and updated kernels and theme manager fixes.
Keep insulting me if you like for telling it like it is. But this is the simple reason why this feature hasnt been widely developed.
If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, Fine your point is now made.
But just remember, at least on the Samsung series of phones, the S1, S2, and S3 did NOT have this feature, the S4 was the first phone by Samsung to have this feature, and the S5 is now officially the 'Flag Ship' phone for Samsung.
As with continued development of multi-media standards, i.e. 4K for a start now available on the Sony Experia Z2 phone for one,
the demand for ever increasing video recording features and abilities will continue to increase, so it would not really surprise me, if later
on this feature were to start appearing in later makes & models of phones down the line.
You really have to consider what % of people will even know or find out about free AOSP OS's like CyanogenMod, for one thing,
and even then what % of those people will even upgrade to such OS's.
The demand for Dual Camera Video Recording will probably go up and up amongst the general populace of phone users.
Right now the demands are other things, things like theme development, bug fixes, etc.
Having ones 'foot-in-the-door-now' so to speak, could be a worth while investment for later on.
Sure the demand NOW is very little, but if devs wait till later on to do this, then when the demands get bigger (presumably with newer
models of phones), devs will be flooded with all sorts of bugs to have to sort out on all the different OS types and versions,
- while the demand is great -, thats a lot of pressure on devs, which would also slow down development in other areas.
I think now, i have made my point. While this does sound purely like an argument just so i can gain something for myself - it's for ALL other people. I dont and cannot claim to represent what people in the world who own phones want. But logic sais that if i want this, then there are lots of people in the world who want this, just because XDA devs have not heard of such people, does not mean that they dont exist.
Besides I'm talking about being able to record video with 2 cameras at the same time, is that really such a grand feat ?,
Hell the XPrivacy program i use that XDA devs made was a Major Feat, Dual Camera support cant be THAT difficult to implement.
As for your other comments:
"But there are alternate methods to getting this feature...like using touchwiz." - well i think i already explained why i went to CyanogenMod in
the first place.
"If the OP really wants to do this on an AOSP rom, he can learn how to develop. Many many many people here learned how to code specifically to create a feature they wanted.[/QUOTE]" - Actually when i was a kid i programmed BASIC, but i have brain damage due to seizures affecting
my long and short term memory, so sorry, your claim that any OP can program is incorrect.
My Point Made
Your point made? I still don't even know what your point is.
Look, I get that this feature is important to you. But that does not mean that it's important to a large percentage of everyone else.
The Samsung AirView features are far more requested to be ported to AOSP roms but even then the demand is so small compared to the demand for things like floating windows, hover notifications, theming fixes, Knox workarounds, etc. No devs even want to tackle the AirView features, which get asked about at least once a week on the various S4 forums, because there isn't enough demand. And there's even less demand for simultaneous duel camera use.
In the years I've been here this is the first time I've ever heard of a request for simultaneous duel camera use. And I read nearly every post here nearly every day. So while I appreciate that this feature is something that's really important to you, it's just not in high demand.
And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money.
As for the difficulty of simultaneous duel camera use...yes, it could be THAT hard to develop. It's not just an app. Something like this that controls 2 pieces of hardware at once would have to be coded into the kernel. And while kernel tweaking is fairly common, completely new kernel features are scarce because it's a very limited number of people who can do it. (And the stock kernel is closed source so it's not like the code can just be lifted from the Samsung version)
Second, once you had the ability to do it in the kernel you'd need an app that could take advantage of the support. You couldn't use the stock camera. You'd need something new. So that's a second layer of development. So this isn't a quick 1 hour project. It's a lot of hours that someone would have to put into it, for something that isn't being asked for very much.
This is the reason it's not being done yet. Don't be mad at me for giving you the honest answer.
Skipjacks said:
Your point made? I still don't even know what your point is.
Look, I get that this feature is important to you. But that does not mean that it's important to a large percentage of everyone else.
The Samsung AirView features are far more requested to be ported to AOSP roms but even then the demand is so small compared to the demand for things like floating windows, hover notifications, theming fixes, Knox workarounds, etc. No devs even want to tackle the AirView features, which get asked about at least once a week on the various S4 forums, because there isn't enough demand. And there's even less demand for simultaneous duel camera use.
In the years I've been here this is the first time I've ever heard of a request for simultaneous duel camera use. And I read nearly every post here nearly every day. So while I appreciate that this feature is something that's really important to you, it's just not in high demand.
And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money.
As for the difficulty of simultaneous duel camera use...yes, it could be THAT hard to develop. It's not just an app. Something like this that controls 2 pieces of hardware at once would have to be coded into the kernel. And while kernel tweaking is fairly common, completely new kernel features are scarce because it's a very limited number of people who can do it. (And the stock kernel is closed source so it's not like the code can just be lifted from the Samsung version)
Second, once you had the ability to do it in the kernel you'd need an app that could take advantage of the support. You couldn't use the stock camera. You'd need something new. So that's a second layer of development. So this isn't a quick 1 hour project. It's a lot of hours that someone would have to put into it, for something that isn't being asked for very much.
This is the reason it's not being done yet. Don't be mad at me for giving you the honest answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"And there is zero incentive to develop it now before it becomes high demand later. There's no money to be made in rom modding. If people suddenly want this feature down the road it'll get developed then. There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money."
Well i think that everything i said above are _VALID POINTS_ points i would have though would have been important enough for XDA devs to consider.
It seems to me that there simply is TOO MUCH demand on the XDA devs in general.
"There's no money to be made in rom modding."
As for 'INVESTMENTS' - I did _NOT_ mention business or money making at all - I meant your investment in coding/programming, your time put into work.
"There is no early investment incentive in this. Phone modding is a hobby. Like fishing or model trains. We do it for fun, not for money."
Well, i guess i will have to turn to people i CAN pay money to, to make it more 'worthwhile' for minority's such as myself, if not a dev.
Ben.
The7Suggester said:
Well, i guess i will have to turn to people i CAN pay money to, to make it more 'worthwhile' for minority's such as myself, if not a dev.
Ben.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing wrong with that! Try to find a group of likeminded people who want this on AOSP and put a bounty together to offer to a developer.
Related
I do not want to upset anybody, just trying to get some understanding of the entire upgrade to a new OS version.
I'm a programmer myself, but on Windows platform and mostly do middle tier business server side apps. Do not know a thing about Linux and android. But had some java experience in the past.
I wonder why we cannot get Froyo so long? Ain't the sources open? Even if we do not have some drivers, these parts cannot change dramatically from version to version. Published API must be stable...
Is this about Dalvik JVM? But, I guess this must be in released ROMs for other phones in the line.
What's the deal? Will appreciate some explanation here.
Android is open source, but that is only the operating system and the kernel, but the drivers and RIL that make the device actually functional are the issue as far as I'm aware. From what I've read here and in IRC, Samsung gave us a hack-job RIL, which is causing many of the issues with getting an AOSP ROM fully compiled and working. I think there may be some driver issues as well to be worked out yet, but I feel those are less important than getting things like phone/data/messaging working. I'm guessing there are more technical reasons why they can't just get 2.1 or 2.2 built from source, but those are probably the big issues.
Honestly, it boils down to Samsung.
Put simply, they're crappy coders (as HTC once was many moons ago), or they're just hella lazy (I strongly believe its the former, given RFS and this RIL mess). Most companies are pretty crappy coders, but most of the time, it doesn't interfere with major things, like OS upgrades.
That, plus the lack of effort or support on Samsung's part, has me never wanting to buy another Samsung phone again, or ever recommending an Android phone from Samsung....
I'm gonna do my best to find in my next phone another quick processor with a nice super AMOLED screen and be done with Samsung, I've had enough, and I'm a very patient person....
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
CNemo7539 said:
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it could have been done, birdman would have done it already
Well I think it's a valid question. Some might think it tedious or obnoxious, but absolutely valid. This is a development forum after all. The reason we don't have 2.2 isn't a hardware limitation, so it must be a practical one -- or yes it would be here.
But I'll just speak from speculation in the hopes that someone will correct me. For god sakes this is a development forum! We've got releases, we have fixes, we have patches, we have complaints, we have gossip. I'd love to see all the _development_ discussion I can get.
From a wider puzzle-piece perspective, I would like to know what is missing. We have working drivers. We have working hardware. We have full source from Google for the operating system. There are several other android phones on Verizon, a few even have Froyo. Sprint currently offers a CDMA Galaxy S phone (Epic) with android 2.2, and that phone possibly shares some hardware (though the WIMAX radio is totally irrelevant to us).
I'm not up to speed on exactly what the RIL is, or how it gets plugged into the android kernel. The RIL (Radio Interface Layer) is a software layer between android itself and the drivers controlling the phone hardware. Google provides some samples for a carrier to create one to govern communication on their network. I'd expect one issue of randomly hacking something like this, is if you are taking over your radio hardware's communications, then you have the capability of putting unwanted data on the network, which might even be criminal. Am I being extreme? So, perhaps we can't touch the RIL and need to wait for it to be spoonfed to us by those that bought the radio band from the FCC. Perhaps this code is inexorably married to particular hardware, unavailable for reading, or even encrypted. Maybe the primary limitation is the royal pain in the apricots that it is to inspect, decompile, and reverse engineer binary code.
But what if we could do something?
My understanding is the RIL is only a carrier-specific interface to the underlying hardware. Shouldn't it be similar between phones, even with wildly different hardware? Shouldn't its interface also be similar between close versions of android? The Droid 2 is a verizon phone with a RIL that does indeed work with Froyo. What I'd like to know is A) can another phone's RIL be extracted within the same carrier, and B) Being the abstract entity that it is, what prevents it from being married to the Fascinate's hardware base?
To be honest, I ardently believe a frank discussion (sans opinions, complains, problems, just productive discussion w/ a smattering of facts) BELONGS in the Development forum.
I'll stop here, in case this thread dies, as so many of mine do.
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I don't know anything about how the RIL works, but I would assume that it could only be easily ported from one device to another if they were using the same chipset in the underlying hardware for the phone. I doubt you'd be able to take the Droid 2/X RIL, and take it to the Droid 2 Global or Droid Pro. Given that, I'm guessing that you can't really take a RIL from one phone and put it on another without extensive work, since most OEMs tend to use different hardware in their devices. From what I've heard, there is a semi-working AOSP build floating around, so the devs are trying, but Samsung's crappy source to work from is not making things easy for them.
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
ksizzle9 said:
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe there was still no radio at all in aosp, and the hope is that 2.2 can fill in the gaps
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
CNemo7539 said:
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it possible? perhaps...but the 5 or so guys who really develop for this phone havent been able to get it to work....nor is aosp working 100% on any galaxy s phone
Response from developers?
Anyone?
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree get your ass moving so we can have teh honeycombzzzz. Quit being such a lazy stingy jerk and get us our AOSP!
ksizzle9 said:
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i was just pulling one dev name out for the heck of it
but i subscribe to the "if it could have been done, it would have been done"
adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that may be a problem for those who just stay here as virtually everything is irc only these days...or the majority of it anyway
CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many different ways do people need to say that "it's being worked on"? The devs are doing a lot of work on our device, but also working with other stuff, all in their free time. Follow the stuff they do on Twitter and github, or join in on IRC.
Attitudes such as your's are precisely why the devs have stopped posting stuff here. You act as though it's a simple process to do things, when it isn't, especially when Samsung gives you a crappy base to start from. The devs have to first get Samsung's source fixed and cleaned up, then start on whatever it is they want to work on, all while finding more bugs and issues that need fixed, primarily all stemming from the crappy source. If you want to be angry at someone, make it Samsung, not the few devs that are working on our device.
Sent from my StupidFast Voodoo Fascinate
As I said - I will survive. I'm OK even with not rooted stock.
Was it so difficult to answer what the real problem is? I don't know what is the problem with this generation? Do I need to be on FB, irc or whatever to get the answer? Why do not answer in place? Ain't it this forum purpose?
No, seems like I need to kiss somebody ass to get meaningful response these days... That way he can maintain his "super god" status.
I do believe I've been pretty polite stating my question, even though English is not my native language. What generated so much sarcasm?
http://mobile.computerworld.com/dev...erworld.com/17612/google_android_30_honeycomb
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I will buy it
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
heres a link to the video from engadet, because that website doesn't have it.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/05/google-shows-off-android-3-0-the-entirely-for-tablet-honeycom/
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
As long as it retains the Android functionality, adds google docs integration and Netflix app I know what I will be getting for Christmas next year unless it is released earlier
oka1 said:
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just another version of Android, so that's obvious.
The bigger issue here is how much of the functionality will be backported to existing Android handsets.
For example, the Google Talk Client in that video supports Native Video chat. Will Existing phones with FFC get a backported GTalk client, or will it require a firmware upgrade (which will probably never come to the likes of an Evo, MT4G, and Epic4G)?
It's extremely frustrating to use a platform with so many functionality gaps that requires you to upgrade you phone virtually every 6 months just to get trivial Quality of Life updates, or do the Custom ROM upgrade treadmill thing...
oka1 said:
This news has been around for awhile. The 3.0 is basically 2.3 with a bit more and will allow android to run on a screen bigger than 7". This is not a exclusion of 3.0 but, rather just a modding of 2.3
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Google hasn't announce the Honeycomb for mobile phones yet, the current handsets on the market if they will get the upgrade might already be obsolete, the upcoming dual processor powered handsets will be more suitable for the new OS release, and I am pretty sure the time the news will trickle down we might as well just be on the market for the new handsets. I understand not everyone shares the same view but I know for myself I would not be holding onto my Vibrant till it evaporates into dust
N8ter said:
It's just another version of Android, so that's obvious.
The bigger issue here is how much of the functionality will be backported to existing Android handsets.
For example, the Google Talk Client in that video supports Native Video chat. Will Existing phones with FFC get a backported GTalk client, or will it require a firmware upgrade (which will probably never come to the likes of an Evo, MT4G, and Epic4G)?
It's extremely frustrating to use a platform with so many functionality gaps that requires you to upgrade you phone virtually every 6 months just to get trivial Quality of Life updates, or do the Custom ROM upgrade treadmill thing...
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What functionality gaps? There are phones out right now with video calling, why does it matter if its native? if the upgrades are trivial, why are you worrying about them?
You do realize you don't have to upgrade from custom roms, you can stick to using an older one. I already know the answer to that, I find your sig hilarious because its your sig.
j0hnZ said:
What functionality gaps? There are phones out right now with video calling, why does it matter if its native? if the upgrades are trivial, why are you worrying about them?
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1. Because video calling on Android is fragmented to hell right now. Some people use QIK. Some people use Tango. Some people use Yahoo, Fring, etc. I'm not installing 3-5 applications on my phone (2-3 of which runs battery whoring services in the background) just to video call. A native solution is necessary, unless a more umbiquitous 3rd party like Skype brings Video Calling to Android.
That's why a Native Solution is needed. So that you can just look in Google Talk and video call with anyone you know who has it installed on their Android phone OR Computer/Notebook/Netbook.
2. It's trivial in a way that it should be easy to backport them to lower Android versions. That's why I worry about them. Phones aren't cheap - contract or not. This was particularly an issue going from Android 1.5 to 1.6,a nd FroYo to Gingerbread is looking somewhat similar, IMO. Again, fairly obvious...
You do realize you don't have to upgrade from custom roms, you can stick to using an older one. I already know the answer to that, I find your sig hilarious because its your sig.
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I think you're missing the point. You don't have to use anything. You can be totally stock forever. So what...
Custom ROMs have issues and the release cycle of them is too fast, yet they're endorsed here as if they're official ROM builds. When one build fixes an issue, it often introduces another issue (I read change logs, and I do keep up with them somewhat, even though I don't use them). It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
The fact that you don't have to upgrade you ROM doesn't mean you won't have to upgrade your ROM.
Official ROMs and devices will get thoroughly reviewed by me in the future, especially since I plan to move off of T-Mobile and only stick with carriers that give 30 day return policies.
Glad you like the sig /rolleyes
Morrill: No minimum processor requirements for Honeycomb http://bit.ly/eK9qrG
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
alvintimothyjr said:
Morrill: No minimum processor requirements for Honeycomb http://bit.ly/eK9qrG
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
What about RAM?
Well, probably won't be an issue for Galaxy S phones since the Nexus S probably has the same RAM configuration as ours...
N8ter said:
1. Because video calling on Android is fragmented to hell right now. Some people use QIK. Some people use Tango. Some people use Yahoo, Fring, etc. I'm not installing 3-5 applications on my phone (2-3 of which runs battery whoring services in the background) just to video call. A native solution is necessary, unless a more umbiquitous 3rd party like Skype brings Video Calling to Android.
That's why a Native Solution is needed. So that you can just look in Google Talk and video call with anyone you know who has it installed on their Android phone OR Computer/Notebook/Netbook.
2. It's trivial in a way that it should be easy to backport them to lower Android versions. That's why I worry about them. Phones aren't cheap - contract or not. This was particularly an issue going from Android 1.5 to 1.6,a nd FroYo to Gingerbread is looking somewhat similar, IMO. Again, fairly obvious...
I think you're missing the point. You don't have to use anything. You can be totally stock forever. So what...
Custom ROMs have issues and the release cycle of them is too fast, yet they're endorsed here as if they're official ROM builds. When one build fixes an issue, it often introduces another issue (I read change logs, and I do keep up with them somewhat, even though I don't use them). It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
The fact that you don't have to upgrade you ROM doesn't mean you won't have to upgrade your ROM.
Official ROMs and devices will get thoroughly reviewed by me in the future, especially since I plan to move off of T-Mobile and only stick with carriers that give 30 day return policies.
Glad you like the sig /rolleyes
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I get that they have all the different video calling options will make it difficult how about one that integrates all of them into one app ala trillian? Then if your someone who likes to talk to people on different messengers you can have an all in one variety without limiting others to your specifications.
I know TW has a few final builds that you can use until you get a new phone. As far as the manufacturers its all about making money. Android provides a base for these manufacturers to add components the market might want and that is what makes them money. They can offer high and low end devices and still say hey you can have apps. I don't really care for this, and it is one of the things I like about the iphone and WP7. It still comes down to asthetics, I can do what I want on my android phone and make it look however I want and for the most part without voiding my warranty.
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
scrizz said:
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
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Finally someone who gets that all he is is an Android hating troll
N8ter said:
It puts you into an upgrade treadmill that I simply can't (and won't) deal with. I don't have time to constantly reflash my phone - like most of the flashers here do.
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I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
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This is the general forum.
Didn't read the rest.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
Furthermore, you complain about the primary activity linking everyone here. You call it a "treadmill", implying that the activity invested into it leads nowhere, and insult the hard working devs who invest their PERSONAL time for nothing but thanks. Why don't you go complain to another community you aren't insulting, implied or otherwise?
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If this were true their wouldn't be a WP7 forum lawl...
Thegreatheed said:
I'm wondering why exactly you feel your opinion is of any relevance to anyone but yourself on the xda DEVELOPERS forum. This is a development community, not a social comments board. The people who are here are (mostly) here because they are interested in developing and tweaking their phones. Why do we want to hear your biased opinion about Android if you aren't even willing to participate in the primary activity shared by members of this site?
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+1
You've shown disdain towards Android, the Vibrant, and the developer community here in general. Why keep coming back? If you dont agree with the entire reason this forum exists (modding, tweaking and developing) then why not move to a forum with less of that going on? The general forums are filled with enough trash to turn anyone into a cynic, so if I wasnt here for the dev community, I would have been gone a long time ago.
scrizz said:
If you're *****ing about Android, STFU, QQ, and move to your beloved iPhone.
If it seriously bothers you THAT much, just sell your phone and purchase a non-android solution.
thanks.
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+1......................
Hi all, i'm going to buy this device, probably, but i'm a bit scared by its particularity.
I fear that not so many devs will pick it up and support for long time...who's here, apart from Chainfire (great guy, but he develops root methods mostly, not full roms or super optimized kernel, he shows the way to others )?
Supercurio (another great dev, but with specific attention to color/sound and not to full roms, again) could come up later (he doesn't seem the "0 day" buyer ), or at least i hope so, and i think Cyanogen will come pretty soon (but could it be with S-Pen full support or not?), but then?
Is it out in USA or not yet?
Sorry for all the questions (they may sound even dumb, i know), but continuous development is the only main "?" i'm facing before the purchase (my galaxy s1, far from being perfect, gained incredible improvements from devs' work)
Same doubts here... How about developers who have the device/are about to buy comment on this thread, that way we can know about the kind of developer support we can expect.
It took 7 months for the GSII to come to the US. I wouldn't cross my fingers.
I'm running rooted stock right now and I am already getting better battery, performance than my S2, and loving this HD screen!
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
But when I bought the SGSII in June 1st week, a lot of development was already taking place. The Note is following the same launch trajectory: UK>Europe>India>South-East Asia> then rest of the world. Now that it's available in India, I don't see many developers who have adopted the device.
kunalparwani said:
But when I bought the SGSII in June 1st week, a lot of development was already taking place. The Note is following the same launch trajectory: UK>Europe>India>South-East Asia> then rest of the world. Now that it's available in India, I don't see many developers who have adopted the device.
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The op was asking if the Note was in the US, wasn't responding to you.
Why run custom ROMs when the system is already godly? Anyways just look at the At&t ****rocket, it is a piece of **** that At&t created and it is still getting devs.
If you think development is a problem, there's a simple solution... go with your gut. No one here can tell you what to do, the Note runs faster and smoother than my GSII that has cooked roms. Cooked ROMs can increase some aspects, but mess up others. Once someone zipaligns and adds some init'd scripts, I'll be happy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
xAnimal5 said:
The op was asking if the Note was in the US, wasn't responding to you.
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I was asking for availability to US developers, i'm european and very keen to buy this beautiful tabphone (hoping to be able to manage it, i like big screens, but this is just bigger ).
I'm glad it runs so well (but i tried it in store and it didn't look so incredibly smooth, i hope it was due to idiots who mess up everything with their sticky hands ), but i hope to see some customization soon (not only custom samsung roms, that are indeed kinda pointless, but cyano, miui, and hopefully mods of these two roms, deeply modified kernels and so on...ICS )
I have to kind of agree, I really see no reason to put a custom rom on the note, everything just works. I wouldn't mind some themes for when things get a little stale but don't really see a need for a rom.
I have been flashing Roms since 2005. The ONLY reason I would not installed a custom rom is the fear of losing the warranty. But since even that is not a problem usually now, I see no reason why not flashing a custom rom..
E.g: Some people want's to modify their cars, other not.. We respect everyone's opinion(if within reason) and preferences.
BUT: The option to have a Custom Kernel/ROM made by our skilled developers here for performance/optimization, stability and longer battery life and customizations? I would take that every time over the stock..
Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk
It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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Click to collapse
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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Click to collapse
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.