[Q] Why do we need devs? [Discussion] - Nexus 7 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

[Q] Why do we need devs? [Discussion] - Nexus 7 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.

The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.

There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium

maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?

Exactly!
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium

How do you not see a need for developers?
Sent From My Toro+ via White Tapatalk

It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.

The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.

The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.

I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.

Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".

Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig

I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.

The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.

Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium

Related

General rant

I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?

setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always just load a rom that is stable and one you like and leave it. Your not forced to always update. If you always want the newest and greatest then you have to update, we all knew that when we started doing this.

The unfortunate thing is that ALL roms i've tried have problems with them - things that dont work, bugs introduced when things are changed. And the devs fix some of the probs in the next release, but then new bugs become apparent.
I know this is the nature of development, and I understand this is only way devs can work to push things forward. But it means living with bugs or upgrading the rom to the next version.
I've not found a rom that has the stabililty/simplicity i really want to just use the phone, and not have to mess around with it all the time, or get annoyed because it wont keep programs like the browser running when you change to do something else, or put up with not being able to rely on the phone for its core function of making and receiving calls and lagging left right & centre.
I think that Android's true requirements are beyond the Dream's hardware - and much as devs try, they will never get past that fact, they will just find progressively better workarounds which "sort of" do the job.

If I were you I would go with an older build instead of a newer one that still has bugs. I'm still on Cyanogens 3.9.5 and have no problems with it at all, no bugs or nothing and happy with it. There is also old dude's builds that I use to be on a long time ago that was stable with no bugs also. But of course since those are older builds it might be hard to find, but if your wanting to take a step back and go to something stable and no bugs let me know I still got all roms on my pc at home.

I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware

supremeteam:
I think you're right - I've just restored my cyanogen 3.6.5 backup and I forgot how decent it is, using swapper it does respond quite well. To be fair, the only reason i upgraded past 3.6.5 was because I was always having a problem with the HTC_IME - it would never stay on "phone keypad" rather than "qwerty", and it also interfered with my physical keyboard by turning on the "enable prediction for qwerty keyboard" option. Other than that I never had any problems with it. This problem is a BIG annoyance though...

Oh - and the fact that the phone rings (silently) about 3 times before anything is shown on the screen or a ringtone is heard. Forgot about that one...

Also, I'd just like to add that I am in no way bashing cyanogen - i have found his roms to be the best/fastest/most stable out all i have tried, hence why i am using them. I have used a few other roms that were just a joke, with force closes all over the place, and much more serious bugs/errors than i have mentioned here.
Overall, for me, i think cyanogen is the best dev out there, consistently pushing the boundaries of performance, and regularly updating his rom. That much is obvious from the popularity of his roms' threads.

update withdraw
I agree with you that cyanogen is a great devolper but so are jac and drizzy and those other guys that are putting a ton of work into hero, maybe soon we will have a good working rosie but in the mean time I could rant how those are buggy and lag a lot, but even with a cupcake rom you have to break a few eggs to make an olmet and that are the bugs that we are gonna have to live with, truthfully I am addicted like a drug addict to all the constant update from cyan to see what is next to come, just the fact the I have been on 4.02 for a couple days is making me go through update withdraw, I flash a hero rom just for the hell of it just to see the progress, it was on my phone for maybe a whole 10 minutes before I booted my nandroid backup of 4.02

gridlock32404 said:
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate what you're saying - that i want to have my cake and eat it! I suppose that's true in some respects. I can honestly say that my Dream is the best phone I've ever had, and the efforts the devs make to push the envelope are just amazing! Their knowledge and skills are something special - and to do it all for the love of it (and of course the respect of the community!) is definitely to be applauded.
I do also hope that google devs do read these forums, and incorporate the work into the official roms! I think they should pay the devs on xda, as they clearly do a lot of work that google ought to have done!

I hope that google does donate to these devs because they have done an amazing job with what they have to work with, I just wish I understood programming better and had the patience for it, I think my phone is better than my computer now, wait anything is better the my computer right now since I burned out my power supply. By far this is the best phone I have ever owned and now I am a android lifer because of the devs. When I first got my phone, it was worthless to me before I rooted it, good thing I found xda back when I had my wing so I knew right where to go and by the end of the first day I had it, it was already rooted

If google pays the devs or give them jobs then we will have to wait long time for our update and cool stuff, they need to just donate lots of money to them so they keep hooking us up first at xda and not the general masses all at once, I don't think they could handle the general awesomeness

A general discussion about an idea that makes perfect sense...

Now, I appreciate everything that these devs have had to offer. I've tried different Custom Roms (With Core Cell 3 being the most stable I've experienced, outside of the annoying Opera Mamory bug)...Android builds...and all that great efforts you guys Put forth.
I look at all these threads and Roms and see the same thing over and over...bugs...bugs....and more bugs...
The most stable Windows Rom I've truly experience is the stock one...lol...not being a smart a$$ at all. Everything just works. Take a registry editor to it and it's provided the most stable platform with Core Cell 3 a hair away from it.
Now, with Android, I see constant bug reports. I mean, people seem to have a great appreciation for the builds and love them, but it always follows up with a major bug...or even worse...lots of little bugs.
What I don't understand is why don't all you devs get together and build the "XDA" Custom Rom or "XDA" Android build that gets undiveded attention and all resources so to make it truly BUG free? Once that has been accomplished...then we can go ahead and try these test builds and play with them...
Now, I say this with a great deal of respect, having worked with developers before I know how fragile the ego's can be
It's also my experience with those same developers that taught me complete focus of resources surfaced the best result.
I mean, an effort like that is something I would pay...eeerrrrr....donate too.
Android seems to be the future for the HD2, at least I think so...some may have a different opinion...that's cool. But as much as I actually like WinMo 6.5...and WinMO 7 showing signs of being a demo at best on the HD2, Android has a future.
I think it would be a great idea for you guys to focus on one thing at a time until it's at a state you can consider it marketable...not that I'm saying that's what you should do...sell things and all.
I would even think it would be cool to take WinMo 6.5 and change it into something completely different and better than what Microsoft settled for...I always promote making Big Brother look silly with a superior view of their own product.
My point is...no matter what platform or approach...get together on it...I bet the result would be far more productive.
I fear though that this idea...no matter how much sense it makes...will not come to fruition...WHAT THE DEUCE!
Looking forward to your thoughts.

well i came up with this idea http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=902534 and would need a thew devs to work on it,about having our own unoficiall Android Rom,Something wich we can say is our own HD2 rom not direct ports if you know were im coming from and pretty much bug free and stable and fast.i know a thew devs came together to create nand so why not do it to create a rom

Thew?
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App

Hah, bug free... That's an interesting idea. The last bug free thing I saw was my Nokia 3210. Since then even my microwave ovens get bugs.

The devs do work together for the most part... different problems get solved by different devs, and they credit each other. I think its amazing what they've accomplished. You should be more than happy with how well we have a port working. I never thought it would get as good as it has, especially as quick as it has. Just look at the Raphael or blackstone... they've been working on ports for those devices for years and are nowhere close to where we are, and might never be.
The devs are doing what they can. This is their hobby... they're gonna work on what interests them. You can't expect them to all work on what you want them to... they would lose interest and we wouldn't have so much innovation. Plus a little competition can bring the best out of a person.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Well most of the bugs in Android are at the kernel level, and there is already a group of developers working on that same piece of software together.
You also have to keep in mind, as other users in this thread have already said, that no software will be without bugs.

I guess...I just know with absolute confidence this idea will work best. Nonetheless, I understand. Also, it's not what I want?...its about completing a task these forums have already put in motion...just at a more effective manor.

i want sense build base on desire hd or z
its will be lite enuf to run from RAM and boot fast
the Data.img will be backed up in the nand but will work from SD card for better performance
that's what i think is perfect to me
RAM gives boot time and less battery drain
data.img on nand and sd card is for better iops and for backuping ur info fast with CWM
u can remove anything u dont use cos it wont be in the RAM
all most important things like email / messages / people browser will run from RAM to get the speed-est performance

As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!

Personally, I think this is a bad idea.
I'm very happy to have multiple developers all working on different projects and supplying us with different ROMs. For example, I hate HTC Sense and prefer stock Android, but lots of people disagree with that and think Sense builds are superior.
If all the devs worked on only 1 ROM then that's all we'd have. 1 ROM. My phone would be the same as yours, and yours would be the same as every other person on the forum. That would be pretty darn boring! If you ask me, more choice is better.
"If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other."

I never said stop working on different flavors of Roms. Just focus on an XDA Rom. Once refined, let the flavors flow...right?

You know, I approach this topic from a respective and open discussion approach with an expressed curiosity at most and the best you can do is confuse it for moaning?
It's guys like you that start all the flaming, when you have people who are simply exchanging ideas.
There's always a few out of the bunch that can't resist being abrasive aka a$$holes while others are just chatting.
AGxM said:
As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Is rapid Upgrades killing Android Development?

Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.

socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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Click to collapse
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:

All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.

mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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Click to collapse
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.

arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.

Your current ROM

We all know that Devs put a lot of effort and time on their project's. therefore their creation is often constantly changing.
I literally flash and test all the roms along with those major changes that Devs bring.
My current device is n910t.
I lke to note that i never sell my older devices, when i retire them i pass them down to friends and family. And before i do that, i make sure that the device has the most stable rom.
Devs put a lot of time and energy into this, and want to thank all of them for giving me something that i like and enjoy.
This is for users like myself, that consider this a passion or a hobby, and want to leave a quick and short opinion to what's best for them at the moment.
Hopefully that will help other users to make a quick decision on trying a rom without going to a thread and annoying the OP with questions like "how is battery life" or often directly or indirectly, comparing one OP's work with others in their own thread.
No matter how many roms i try, something that I love doing is to read all the threads and specially hearing the addicted flashaholics talk about anything, or the veterans with all their wise answers helping everybody
I know talking about roms in general in a single thread, is walking a fine line on the rules, in this forum. But, if we are educated enough, or at least try to be nice and respectful to each other, and specially to the devs and their work, we probably can keep this thread open and interesting, like it's meant to be.
I spend a lot of time testing touchwiz roms and lately aosp ones to.
If you asked me as far back as one week ago which one you think is the best and worth the daily driver for the moment, my answer would have been completely different than now.
I am unbiased, and that i guarantee, but i have to admit that sometimes i speek a little to soon, without meaning anything bad, but that eventually defeats being unbiased, so i do sound bad when that happens.
You have to realize that there is actually a way to say what you like about a rom, without offending others.
I am not going to give my review or my current opinion about the best rom right now, but with everyone else i will talk and discuss along the way.

Interesting thread. Let's hope no one gets butthurt.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Premium HD app

Temetka said:
Interesting thread. Let's hope no one gets butthurt.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be cause a lot of them might of forgotten to take the midol this morning lol. People need to get a grip that people will like others better and may not like some things a dev does or how certain devs just blow you off when u have an issue. It not till everyone says the same that the devs says oh geez let me look into that. It sad what xda has come to but I give the op credit for stating his opinion.

Post the scores for each category. I think if you rate them on a bunch of categories and say which ones are best at which categories, it might be a good way to not make this thread be about the "best rom" otherwise it will be closed in no time.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app

From the Moderator
This thread will stay open as long as there is not comparison of best rom ....... otherwise it will get closed

If you are wandering about comments above, The OP has been modified and changed prior to this post.

All devs have personal preference and individual set of skill and time. Likewise, users with personal preference and time. Some get what is more stable, some get what they really want and find time to ask others, to fix and tweak, to make the rom more stable, customized. Sharing the end results with devs and users. In reality best rom I think is the one, oneself could make themselves. Each rom has pros and cons. Each user uses their device differently, so even pros and cons can shift from one user to the next. I myself find any kitkat roms more practical by design. A more efficient way to use the device visually, with features and settings more organized and faster to recognize icons visually rather reading the icons labels. Lollipop has some new unique features, seems faster and smoother performance wise, but on the most part priority seems to be the color of things. If we lived in a perfect world with no time, I wonder what the hybrid of kit Kat and lollipop would be, or if all devs were one team. I think the best rom would be to have all the possible features/customizations with on/off switches. But that would probably require a lot of time and memory space, to also not have one feature conflict with another. Interesting place. Appreciate all devs and users with useful information they share with others.

Right now i have a backup of pretty much all the roms out there. The one that i always have when i am working is poprock because of battery life and overall stability. At home i mostly have TeXoDUs because i love customizations and the looks of it. When driving or out with friends i have aosp CmRemix has been the go2 lately, love the speed and gets me out of TW world for a while

Went back to kitkat/Firekat with bioshock kernel. Ran tw lollipop since it's release and every rom had issues. Not any developers fault, just unfinished, unrefined product from Google. I had way too many issues with camera not focusing, unexplained heat, wake locks, crap battery life, signal problems with new modem, random app force closes, etc, etc.

Project Infinity

Stock LP. Haha!
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app

I've tried many but always come back to firekat 13. Its the only ROM my phone seems to like & the only one that runs stable with no heat or persistent wakelocks.

davwman said:
Went back to kitkat/Firekat with bioshock kernel. Ran tw lollipop since it's release and every rom had issues. Not any developers fault, just unfinished, unrefined product from Google. I had way too many issues with camera not focusing, unexplained heat, wake locks, crap battery life, signal problems with new modem, random app force closes, etc, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe be a little more patient? ? Give it a chance, play around get yourself used to LP and you will realize that it's not so bad. If the problems that you described were persistent, there wouldn't been so many roms and users making the switch.

Android_Monsters said:
Project Infinity
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will give this a shot and report back. Have you tried other roms to? Or did you stick with this from beginning? By saying more about this rom, in my opinion you advertise the devs work, and there is nothing more the devs want. They don't sell their work, it is a gift for us, the good words and popularity of their rom is more valuable to them then anything else.

rile1564 said:
Stock LP. Haha!
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing wrong with that. And again i ask you why? Have you tried other roms and ran into issues?

I have a cell phone store, so I've tried them all.
I can tell you my personal path, however.
Firekat, cmremix, poprocks, project Infinity, Tekhd's rom.
I can tell you what we put on note 4s the most.
Poprocks and CmRemix.
I'll have to pm you a link to project Infinity cause it got pulled.

Pic 2

kabuk1 said:
I've tried many but always come back to firekat 13. Its the only ROM my phone seems to like & the only one that runs stable with no heat or persistent wakelocks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i just wanted something decent and never look back, i would have done the same to. But the truth of the matter is that i love NEW even if that is something that is not perfect yet. I love CHANGE, i like being curious with every update out there, and love flashing.
Lol i remember myself when i first bought a computer and would spend countless hours on IRC or going for days exploring programs, downloading torrents, and shiitte load of viruses along with them. Factory reseting windows weekly, and repeating the same thing over and over.
now these days i have settled with wiping and flashing. To old for anything else

Android_Monsters said:
I have a cell phone store, so I've tried them all.
I can tell you my personal path, however.
Firekat, cmremix, poprocks, project Infinity, Tekhd's rom.
I can tell you what we put on note 4s the most.
Poprocks and CmRemix.
I'll have to pm you a link to project Infinity cause it got pulled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice, thnx man!
Don't forget RAPTURE by ib4bested, that's rock solid to, and very fest with the most minimal bloatware than any other rom out there

And i can tell you right now, if TEKXodus was a little more organized, and what i mean by that is that if he had al the mods and themes in one place, something similar like Brians rom DynamicPop, where he has incorporated a settings icon with all his mods and tweaks (CM has that to) and had a little less unnecessary bloatware, made it more compact. That would be a dream rom with twice the user base. He is always there with a lot more work and updates than anybody else, his rom has the speed the battery life and the customization all in one.
Let me give an example.
When i flash his rom all i wanna see is the speed and the looks that he has right now. Everything else including samsung, google, tmobile, optional aps (bloatware) lmt all themes sound app, tweaks, themed sms, pull down notification tweaks, status bar etc, all into one single icon as a user choice mods. Thats a lot of work i know, but thats something that he certainly doesn't lack.
This way he would give every single person what they exactly want. With one stone he would kill countless birds ))

[Q] What Happened to this phone?

Let's be honest to ourselves here guys, out beloved Moto X Style was officially released in September which means this phone has now been out for at least 3 months and while all the effort that has since been put in this devices by key developers and people from day 1 up till now is very much appreciated and will continue to be appreciated, the development of this device compared to most flagships has been slow motion.
I am just trying to understand what the hell went wrong with this phone that made it end up with such super slow motion development, as when I originally bought the device I was thinking this phone would be at least in the top 20 most active phones on XDA development wise.
It had so much going for it, easy root, easy unlockable bootloader, a pretty much almost complete stock version of android, kernel sources released and motorolas good track record of updating their flagship phones in a timely manner and good hardware to accompany the great bloatware free stock software and a cheap price compared to some other flagships from other companies such as Samsung and Sony
With all this in mind I thought developers would flock to this device and we would have a massive development forum with loads of options between custom roms, mods, themes and other tweaks etc
But this is far from the case and I know the Nexus 6P being released probably had something to do with it, Still this should have been at least in top 20
At first I thought when Android 6.0 MM will be released development will increase then we needed the kernel sources as that was apparently not enough, then we had kernel sources but apart from 1 or 2 roms showing up being in alpha stages nothings changed too much.
This is such a disappointment to say the least.
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?

djsynth said:
If only I could understand why this is happening maybe something could be done to fix this or increase the development of this phone, I dont know maybe get some developers from the nexus 6p forums on here some how ...
Any ideas why this has happened and if anything can be done to increase development?
IS THERE ANY WAY WE AS A COMMUNITY CAN GET MORE DEVELOPERS TO WORK ON THIS DEVICE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.

When i had the one plus one there were so many roms that was a brain storm... I prefer some and reliable roms than a plethora where you get confused!!!

2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO you hit the nail on the head. I love this phone. I had the MXPE 2014 as well, was not a fan. Also owned the original, Loved it.
This MXPE has been great in imo, the lack of development has not been disappointing to me. The stock rom is really pretty good, there are minor tweaks that can be done but most can do these on their own.
I used to be a flash-aholic, but like @GretaLewd has stated...custom roms tend to break things. I'm more in favor of kernel development. But how many different kernels can you have? One way or another they'll be the same.
I also own a Nexus 6P, but my MXPE is my go to device.
I see users complaining about this phone constantly, I really don't think it matters what phone you put in the hands of those users...they would still find fault and complain.
Motorola and Lenovo did good by this device, I just hope they keep up with incrementals for a while.

Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Good thread. Would love to hear more thoughts
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Ordered the device today. Hope slow development doesn't disappoint me on this device, as others have stated...

I have been using this device for 2 months now. I am happy with it an didn't face a single issue. I can do a little bit tweaking myself using Xposed.
So far the slow development doesn't bother me.

Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.

chrisund123 said:
Only buy a device for what it can do out of the box, not what you hope it will be able to do with additional modding and development... Nothing else is guaranteed!
As it stands I'm very happy with my rooted stock Style, not need for custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good way to approach Android phones I suppose but I believe
it's still nice to buy a phone that's great out of the box and good development wise, usually flagships tend to have good development and then the mid range and low end phones tend to get smaller developments but I guess there's an exception to everything.

patt2k said:
Isn't the 64bit cpu reason because it takes more work to get cm/aosp roms?
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt that's the reason since 64 Bit has been the standard since Lollipop and pretty much all the flagships have a 64bit cpu since the beggining of 2015 but that doesn't stop other development forums from flourishing.

GretaLewd said:
I think it's due to a combination of factors, such as :
1) The popularity of the phone/ manufacturer. These figures show Lenovo/Motorloa in 5th place for sales, having a 3.7% market share in Q3 2015
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
3) With phones getting more expensive, more people are put off from unlocking their bootloader due to warranty issues
4) I'm no longer convinced about the benefits of custom ROMs - seems a lot of the time they break more things than they fix. Maybe a lot of other people now think the same.
5) Some apps, for example ones for mobile banking or subscrition TV & Video, will not work with a rooted phone.
In the past I've had various phones from various manufacturers, and I'd say if you get your kicks from installing custom ROMs, then buy a Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your break down on your thoughts of the subject and I must admit you've mention some very valid points here especially Point 1,2 and 5 but I think out of all of these its Point 1 and 2 that are the most significant, I suppose Motorola have a really small market share explains the lack of adoption between developers when comparing to some of the more prominent manufacturers such as samsung.
and The Android Stock OS has improved significantly within the past couple of years adding some new features that previously people had to root their phones to acomplish such as full app permission controls and backing up app data which google does for you now.

You need to follow development before buying a device these days. i.e. always wait at least 1-2 months. If you follow the development forums you would get an idea if developers are interested in said device or not. I for one, bought it right after I found out that AICP (CM12) rom was being developed. I was interested in running CM13 instead of other AOSP variations. And before I got the device the first (almost daily driver) builds were already uploaded.

Once cm is solid quite a few roms will pop up. Won't be long now.

Official MM has only been out for our phone for a little over a month. give it some time it may pick up. either way it's still an awesome phone out the box... and as stated above, once CM13 is stable im sure we'll see some of the other custom ROMs that are based off it.

GretaLewd said:
2) The OS (Android) has improved a lot over recent years, to the extent where a lot of people (like me) are happy to stay with stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great point, but I'd like to add that this is especially applicable to our MXPE. We're really close to stock as it is, so there's little motivation to go ROM to debloat like there is on Samsung, LG, and similar phones. On the flip side, we have a lot of really neat features (active display, approach, accelerator gestures, voice controls) that we would lose if we went ROM.
For me, these two points combine, leaving me with little motivation to ROM my phone, especially since I can could get most of the advantages of CyanogenMod with something like GravityBox, which will allow me to keep the Motorola features (I'm currently unrooted because of the warranty, but I'll be rooted in the future for sure) . Of course, these are my own personal opinions, but I suspect that they reflect at least some of the mindset of this community.

I agree with others, that custom roms are often more trouble than they're worth. The only reason to use them these days is if your device isn't going to be updated to the latest version of Android.

Ever since moto introduced 99% stock android + moto display, roms have been entirely unnecessary for me. I used to rom my phones to gain greater flexibility + customizability. Now that I have stock android + Xposed, I doubt I will ever flash another custom rom again.

I'm still waiting for custom super roms that will make this device best in the market. Why can we have a rom with 1080p display, tweak kernel with better control for heating issue for overall battery life and speed?
Sent from my XT1575 using XDA Free mobile app

The biggest issue is that developers don't support devices they don't own. With the launch of the nexus 6 (not the 6p) most developers got it and had no need to update to a y newer devices.
Also to the comment that all flag ships are 64 bit this is not the case. If you look the most popular devices as far as developers are concerned are non 64 bit.
Also as android matures you will see less and less roms. As it will be come harder. There are very few real development teams. Most are just kitchen sink roms. A base with tons of cherry picks and a new name. Nothing even worth looking at twice. But more developers are closing up the source of their projects because of these types of roms.
To be honest most users have no point in flashing roms. Only those that like the development side of it will continue to mod roms and flash things.

Database Users

welcome