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I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always just load a rom that is stable and one you like and leave it. Your not forced to always update. If you always want the newest and greatest then you have to update, we all knew that when we started doing this.
The unfortunate thing is that ALL roms i've tried have problems with them - things that dont work, bugs introduced when things are changed. And the devs fix some of the probs in the next release, but then new bugs become apparent.
I know this is the nature of development, and I understand this is only way devs can work to push things forward. But it means living with bugs or upgrading the rom to the next version.
I've not found a rom that has the stabililty/simplicity i really want to just use the phone, and not have to mess around with it all the time, or get annoyed because it wont keep programs like the browser running when you change to do something else, or put up with not being able to rely on the phone for its core function of making and receiving calls and lagging left right & centre.
I think that Android's true requirements are beyond the Dream's hardware - and much as devs try, they will never get past that fact, they will just find progressively better workarounds which "sort of" do the job.
If I were you I would go with an older build instead of a newer one that still has bugs. I'm still on Cyanogens 3.9.5 and have no problems with it at all, no bugs or nothing and happy with it. There is also old dude's builds that I use to be on a long time ago that was stable with no bugs also. But of course since those are older builds it might be hard to find, but if your wanting to take a step back and go to something stable and no bugs let me know I still got all roms on my pc at home.
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
supremeteam:
I think you're right - I've just restored my cyanogen 3.6.5 backup and I forgot how decent it is, using swapper it does respond quite well. To be fair, the only reason i upgraded past 3.6.5 was because I was always having a problem with the HTC_IME - it would never stay on "phone keypad" rather than "qwerty", and it also interfered with my physical keyboard by turning on the "enable prediction for qwerty keyboard" option. Other than that I never had any problems with it. This problem is a BIG annoyance though...
Oh - and the fact that the phone rings (silently) about 3 times before anything is shown on the screen or a ringtone is heard. Forgot about that one...
Also, I'd just like to add that I am in no way bashing cyanogen - i have found his roms to be the best/fastest/most stable out all i have tried, hence why i am using them. I have used a few other roms that were just a joke, with force closes all over the place, and much more serious bugs/errors than i have mentioned here.
Overall, for me, i think cyanogen is the best dev out there, consistently pushing the boundaries of performance, and regularly updating his rom. That much is obvious from the popularity of his roms' threads.
update withdraw
I agree with you that cyanogen is a great devolper but so are jac and drizzy and those other guys that are putting a ton of work into hero, maybe soon we will have a good working rosie but in the mean time I could rant how those are buggy and lag a lot, but even with a cupcake rom you have to break a few eggs to make an olmet and that are the bugs that we are gonna have to live with, truthfully I am addicted like a drug addict to all the constant update from cyan to see what is next to come, just the fact the I have been on 4.02 for a couple days is making me go through update withdraw, I flash a hero rom just for the hell of it just to see the progress, it was on my phone for maybe a whole 10 minutes before I booted my nandroid backup of 4.02
gridlock32404 said:
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate what you're saying - that i want to have my cake and eat it! I suppose that's true in some respects. I can honestly say that my Dream is the best phone I've ever had, and the efforts the devs make to push the envelope are just amazing! Their knowledge and skills are something special - and to do it all for the love of it (and of course the respect of the community!) is definitely to be applauded.
I do also hope that google devs do read these forums, and incorporate the work into the official roms! I think they should pay the devs on xda, as they clearly do a lot of work that google ought to have done!
I hope that google does donate to these devs because they have done an amazing job with what they have to work with, I just wish I understood programming better and had the patience for it, I think my phone is better than my computer now, wait anything is better the my computer right now since I burned out my power supply. By far this is the best phone I have ever owned and now I am a android lifer because of the devs. When I first got my phone, it was worthless to me before I rooted it, good thing I found xda back when I had my wing so I knew right where to go and by the end of the first day I had it, it was already rooted
If google pays the devs or give them jobs then we will have to wait long time for our update and cool stuff, they need to just donate lots of money to them so they keep hooking us up first at xda and not the general masses all at once, I don't think they could handle the general awesomeness
setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like you read my mind
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
I noticed that too, then again...most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...and don't require as much hackery as the G1 Roms did...I dunno whatsup with any ports as of yet, but I'm sure things will pick up.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly it. The fact that there aren't constant updates to ROMs is a success I think...it means nothing is horridly broken. This is the first phone I've had in a long time, that I've been so satisfied with, I'm not flashing a new ROM every other day.
We have the latest version of android out there that is accessible by the public or the ROM devs (that they can release).
We aren't trying to backport features because of the above.
The only real (I say real in a non "thanks bro" way) ROM porter we have is without internet (I assume on vacation).
As stated above, most things already work as they should.
While development is slow compared to the G1, also remember that all of our devs also do work on other devices and don't just devote all their android expertise to just one phone.
There isn't any new material to work with. Until Google releases FroYo or new beta updates we're at a stand still.
If you worked in the software world, you would be seeing this as a good thing
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go!
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Hope to see some awesome ROMs from you.
Enjoy!
Its a good thing because there are no major bugs in existing ROMs. They only get updated when google or some dev introduces new features...
This is my first phone which is still running stock ROM. With all my earlier devices...something always seemed broken or felt like it lacked something.
When I had Touch.. Touchflo was launched by HTC and all the ROM development was diverted to getting Touchflo on Touch. And with lack of enough RAM, there were always choices to be made on what you want and hence many ROMS
Then I got Diamond. It was good, but again had less RAM than Touch Pro. Again race was to get Touch Pro features in Diamond and again choices had to be made to cramp up things in the limited storage.
Then I got Touch Pro... and within few months, Diamond II and Touch Pro II was launched. Cooks started scrambling to get new touchflo 3d on Diamond and Touch Pro.
Then I got Diamond II, and sure enough HTC continued there trend of backstabbing it's customers and launched HD2 with new touchflo aka Sense. Cooks then started to figure out ways to get Sense UI on diamond II.
So you see, there were always things lacking... which forced cooks to figure out things that HTC should have done for us. HTC's first Touch phone was launched along with iPhone... but touch hasn't received any updates for past 2 years.... and Apple is still supporting iPhone (although no OS4 for them).
N1 on the other hand is Google's responsibility. We have the latest OS and features. There is not enough "to-do" things here.
Regardless of that, our Chefs are doing amazing job at giving us the features which AOSP is still finalizing.
With all due respect to you.. I think it is a bit unfair to say that the chefs aren't doing much.
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, we'll get right on it, boss.
It is "slow" because the phone and the ROMs are so damn fast and good already. You can't port 1.5/6 ROMs over because we can't map the buttons without having a 1.5/6 Kernel made for the Nexus One. That is never going to happen.
As well, really? What is slow about the development? We have tons of new apps coming out all the time, the ROMs we have a super fast and super stable. New Kernels every day or two pushing battery life and CPU power even further.
There is tons of development going on. Just because you aren't seeing new ROMs every day doesn't mean a lack of development, it means the ROMs we have are super solid, and development has shifted to making the other aspects better, like apps themselves, and so forth. That is one of the best things about Android, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get some new apps, like HexiLauncher and what not, all you need to do is install the app, and voila you have a new home/launcher option on your phone.
Or, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get a new kernel, you can flash the kernel yourself (if you know how to follow simple instructions) that gives you the newest features, and features that mean more to our phones running super fast than a new ROM would mean... actually by ROM I am talking about system.img...
Anyways, if you really think things are just way to slow, then either learn how to do it yourself, make a huge donation to your favorite developer on the basis of them picking up the pace (and by huge, I mean 50k+, so they can quit their day job), or just accept the simple fact that there is a ton of development going on already, you (and many as of late) don't seem to understand enough to realize that kernels and apps are more important, at this point in time, than a ROM update every other day.
LOL another one of these threads curious as to what else can you ask for? All the tweaks that are available and possible for this phone has already been done.
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Now this I would agree with you. The number of ROM devs are a lot less compared to the G1, :-( the phone is fairly new though.. But the ones we have working on the N1 are all great nevertheless .
chowdarygm said:
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
re: above post..
hahahaha... "XDA Syndrome"
Seriously though, Modaco has been gone for awhile. Got stuck cuz of the volcano issue... it's been weeks since he has released even an update!
We are a little spoiled with the N1 I think... on top of that with 2.2 coming out shortly I think a bunch of cooks will be kinda waiting for that to come out before they do any more major tweaking.
The main thing I personally am waiting for is a fully working SenseUI on the N1.... I kinda thought it would materialize much quicker once the DESIRE came out.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... i think i have the same problem im feenin for another enom rom but as he stated he was on vacation which i can respect cause im going to Miami soon. I have no complaints to the rom development but i'd love to see more themes like motoblur style X10 style i miss my motoblur theme on my magic
[edit] And before your go saying i should make one myself i tried and it was to difficult for me for some reason.
Coming from winmo myself it was a change not having a dozen or more roms to choose from but in reality looking at it objectively most of the roms are either adding something that came in a newer device or more or less a rehash of what was already done in that they didnt do anything new but they did it in a different way. Not that the latter is a bad thing, the improved layouts people came up with greatly eased, speeded up, reduceded the number of clicks, etc. in getting where you wanted to go and I at least was happy to see them coming down the pipe. As an aside when winmo was as youthful as android is now there was a lot less rom activity than what you see now as best as I can recall back.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, I had that like 2 weeks ago...kept flashing and flashing and flashing...finally I settled on my highly customized 5.0.5.3, still haven't jumped to 5.0.6 due to wifi issues (and me being suspended until payment next week)
I had 'XDA Syndrome' with my Magic.. I found myself flashing something new (ROM or theme) every week. Now with my Nexus, I have no desire to do so. Like others have already said, I think it's a testament to the stability of the ROMS out there coupled with the fact that 2.1 is already kick ass. We already have the best software on our N1's people. Believe me, once 3.0 or even Froyo comes out we will see an increase in ROM development.
Also, there may not be many devs for the N1 as of now, but many of the absolute best ones have a Nexus so I'm not worried about future development.
why in the hell do we need so many builds?
theres now a dozen pages full of different kinds of builds and they all share same issues, just different interface.
i ve stopped updating my build since theres no point, i tried 4-5 dfferent ones and theres really not much change thats worth upgrading every week.
can we leave the builds to people that actually know what they re doing?
instead of turning this into another competition who can produce more builds per week/hour...
its becoming like the winmo section where its jut too much **** and most of people dont know whats goind on anymore...
its FLOODED with garbage. and builds that dont really bring anything new just people wanting to be COOL on the internetz.
i dont mean the developers or builders that actually produce some results, i mean the rest that are just repackaging builds as their own and adding some fkd up themes to it. of course someone will like the theme but you are not contributing to the development of the android platform you just clogging up the pipes with junk...
Wow...
I just say thank you for the ones that work for me and don't use the ones that don't.
Its not like all these people do this for free or anything.
Again wow...
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Have to disagree with you. I came from the slide which had very little to choose from. It is a nice change to have a choice. If themes are your thing then you have a choice..if not then you can have abare bones build. If sense is for you then do it. If not therm load a nexus or CM build. I know you think some o of the themed build are garbage but I can tell you HTCClay releases themed builds that add functionality and are more stable then the original releases. Trust me that it is better to have a choice then have very little to choose from. Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
good luck trying to find ones that work.
i havent checked this page for a week or so and i come back here i dont know wtf is going on theres so many damn builds already and most of them share same issues. do we really need all that ?
i know theres people that actually have some progress here and a big thank you to them.
ut there are others that are just cluttering up the board with their repackaged builds without any improvements whatsoever..
u know theres such thing as too much choice.
eithr extremes is not too helpfull.
I agree with the OP. There really shouldn't be pages filled with them..
Well, I disagree. There is nothing like having too much choice. If you want a quick fix, just pick a random build and stick with it. Leave the other builds for us people who have the patience and time to check out all the various builds.
just be grateful at what there is.. and stop *****ing it aint do u good lol
Two words, yes.
what op said is so truE! i was thinking the same thing since the last 10 days ! i think we need perfection not variety ....we need stability not eye candy ....
coolbeer1990 said:
what op said is so truE! i was thinking the same thing since the last 10 days ! i think we need perfection not variety ....we need stability not eye candy ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop bumping this thread...LOL...NO ONE POINTING A M-16 at you and force you must try all the build,just find the one that suit you most...
More builds means more creativity, more creativity means more stability...
There is no perfect build out there until now...
Furthermore, by reading through every build's thread...Those chefs are learning from each other...for example, darkstone video tweak has been used in many builds now...
Give a chance for new cooker to learn...
Cheers...
^^^ Thanks to you, I found this thread
Yeah more creativity, new breed build EVO sense with Sprint craps in it.
it IS always good to have variety that stays in lead with the variety of tastes on here,however, i do see his point too.it WOULD be nice to have a totally stable build first and THEN theme em up or make different builds from that. ..besides, all these builds have turned me into a test junky. i'm currently seeking counseling.lol
Why are you even complaining?
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
I don't know about the others, but my HD2 is picky.
I need the variety, more possibilities to find a working one.
Some builds are horrible on my phone, mainly the most popular.
No GPS on HyperDroid (My favorite build)
No MMS on 95% of builds.
So yeah, I've spent countless hours going through Radios, WM ROMs and Android builds to find the next best thing for my phone.
Now I've only got an inconvenience of my screen's back light going dull after unlocking about once a day.
And if there wasn't such a variety of builds, even new ones with only the smallest of changes, I wouldn't have a workable build right now.
So it's a mild inconvenience for you to shift through the 2 or 3 pages to find the build you like, don't be bothered by it.
It helps in the big picture.
AmpJack said:
I don't know about the others, but my HD2 is picky.
I need the variety, more possibilities to find a working one.
Some builds are horrible on my phone, mainly the most popular.
No GPS on HyperDroid (My favorite build)
No MMS on 95% of builds.
So yeah, I've spent countless hours going through Radios, WM ROMs and Android builds to find the next best thing for my phone.
Now I've only got an inconvenience of my screen's back light going dull after unlocking about once a day.And if there wasn't such a variety of builds, even new ones with only the smallest of changes, I wouldn't have a workable build right now.
So it's a mild inconvenience for you to shift through the 2 or 3 pages to find the build you like, don't be bothered by it.
It helps in the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to uncheck Automatic Brightness, if you didn't
r u seriously complaining? like reallllly....... r u like realllly like complaining? like really tho. foreals?
gtfohere. go live in a communist country where there is no variety.
There are some builds stand out of the group, because they used their own kernel, the rest is, well, same girl with different dress,...Victoria Secret,...Frederick's of Hollywood, get you excited at first, then... you know.
If you tried almost every build out there, you would realize, it just the same girl with different dress, that's all.
well someone had to say it. And I agree with the OP
First off, I appreciate every chef's work on the Android development on the HD2. After all none of this would be possible without these gentleman.
However after reading through HUNDREDS of pages in various build threads I notice each build has a set of bugs or non-working parts. Sometime shared but often unique to its own build. Often time I think if build A was combined wih build B then everything would be excellent.
I wish these chefs could team up and make one stable build with everything working rather that the situation we have now.. but unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon so it might be time for me to jump ship and sell my HD2 at a lost and purchase a factory Android device.
I can honestly say this is the most hater thread I have seen so far. How can you complain about having a choice??? No one is forcing ANY of you to try every build, so if anything you should take a pen and write these complaints on your own forehead because you are to blame for any new builds YOU choose to apply or not apply. As for me, I like the look of others more than others, the stability of some over others, I have even found some where certain things from the market show up that does not show up on other builds.
Hi, don't know if this should be here or in a development thread.
My question is, and I know they are very important to this community etc
Why do we need devs?
What I mean is why do the original developers of the software, such as Google, leave it at such a bad state.
When XDA dev's get hold of it, their's no limit to what it can do.
E.g. Network mods, speaker mods, speed mods, theme's, custom drivers battery mods, heat mods, the list could go on.
Why don't the develops make it as good as it could be before they release it to us?
Some simple tweaks such as the networking ones to improve browsing/download speeds, why don't they just do it in the first place? Rather than limiting their users and therefor creating the need for so many underground developers.
Don't take this in the wrong way devs, I appreciate your work, just want to hear your opinions on why you think original devs leave it at such a state, where it could be deemed unfinished or totally lacking.
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
sinple said:
The oem thinks what is best for the device while other developer may have other opinions.
Eg, Google may think a kernel running at 1.3ghz is better than 1.6 ghz which Dev may think like wise. Also, the Google wanted promote cloud tech, and hence does not allow otg but Dev can unlock this feature.
Dev are there to do things not permit by company
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey
Thanks for the reply, and I want this to be more of a discussion than answers
I don't understand why companies do it though.
And OTG is allowed for non-rooted devices. Just some of its features arent, if you get that. Like a mouse and keyboard works un-rooted, by a HDD doesnt.
I'm just curious as to why some of the devs here, such as Faux and Xmoo, havent got jobs at Google so they can teach them a thing or to. They know what the consumer actually wants, and pay attention to the needs of the tech enthusiast.
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
Sent from my LG-P500 using xda premium
maztahbr said:
There is an diference between normal state and improved state. Its better. 1.3ghz processor runing normal and cooler than a 1.6ghz that could get warm and gives some trouble.
Im just glad that its not a locked device giving ours beloved devs the chance to improve it.
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I see your point
Basically "Better Safe than Sorry" right?
Exactly!
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How do you not see a need for developers?
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It's because people have preferences. And some people just like to tinker with their stuff.
The basic argumentative of yours seemed to be "if it's good enough, then we only need one". But, see , there is nothing in the world that's "best" enough to outsweep everything else. It's always nice to have options
I wouldn't say the stock rom and kernel is bad or "not enough" so the devs have to step out. I think google guys do a great job on stock rom. It's just nice for us users to have some other choices to play with.
In some sense it's kind of like buying flours. We wouldn't say,"well, if this brand of flours is good enough, we only need one brand in the world. Why so many brands out there?" Because different brands might grow in different places, use different breeds of wheats, have different moistures, use different ways to grind them, therefore different flavors. You simpy can't say anything would be that good that one is enough.
There is no limitation in improvement and imagination, and I think that's what devs here are doing.
The devs do amazing work, if only XDA was a tech company.
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
Development can go on forever. My HTC inspire is two years old, and development is still going forward thanks to great devs (randomblame). Big companies just build for the masses. Devs tweak for us geeks that are always looking for more.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using xda app-developers app
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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CM7 for the G2 is LOADS better than the stock HTC rom.
Android is a platform of options, our developers help give you more options. They allow you complete control over the hardware YOU purchased, keep you updated on the most recent version of Android, and let you tweak to your heart's desire. Microsoft and Apple lock you in, it's their way or the highway. But Android and it's developers give you the ability to say "I don't like this, and I'm going to change it".
Switchbitch said:
I know I won't be popular for saying this but I have tried a lot of different roms on a lot of different devices and in my experience it is best to stick with the stock rom, since custom roms inevitably have flaws which only present themselves at the most inopportune moments.
There's a reason why stock roms ship in the condition they're in; it's because all the variables are tried and tested and because a shed load of time has gone in to developing the software to work perfectly with the hardware. Dev's seem to have a knack of improving the software in some conditions at the expense of breaking it in others.
As an example, I once loaded a very popular custom rom onto a handset because everyone was raving about how good it was. Several days later I was at a wedding and took my handset out to snap some photos, only to realise that the camera didn't work in a certain configuration with this rom. The bug wasn't documented and the result was that I couldn't take any photos.
All too often this sort of thing happens; you'll read threads about the latest and greatest rom and how fast it is etc etc, only to then come across a comment about someone whose wifi keeps disconnecting, or someone whose battery life has halved and so on.
It's a bit like switching to Ubuntu from Windows, Ubuntu is fine if you like tinkering but if you want to get **** done, stick with Windows.
Happy to eat my words if someone recommends a fully working rom which is a genuine improvement over the stock rom.
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Click to collapse
On non nexus devices I would agree. All of the aosp ROMs on my fascinate and d2g had serious issues that really couldn't be overlooked and made the phone unusable on a daily basis.
On the other hand, ROMs on my Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7 are a huge improvement over stock. CM is always a solid choice.
I haz no sig
I can't believe no one has explicitly mentioned this...Google and other OEMs have a responsibility towards their shareholders and the market, whereas "devs" (like on xda) have no such responsibility; this makes a huge difference in process and result. As an example, theres a hack for the n7 to get the sony bravia engine, which is kinda nice, but there is no way that sony is going to let google do that legally is there? OEMs have to do things proper and legal.
The biggest difference though, is one already alluded to in this thread previous (imo), testing. Now CM actually does go through a LOT of testing and so on, but there is a sense in which Google's (or other OEMs) hands are tied due to deadlines, whilst CM has no such thing. While it is perfectly understandable for CM to go "here is CM10, btw its beta, but have at it" to the whole world after months of testing, I'm sure if Google did that people would be pissed, because Google releases to general market, they have strict deadlines based on internal product cycles and market variables and shareholder crap , but most of all people EXPECT market products to be rock solid, whereas its okay for something like CM to be broken sometimes. The reason n7 runs at 1.3 in stock and not 1.6 like some other ROM is likely because the company that made the processor probably told google something like "based on our testing 1.3 is the safest speed", people OC all the time, even desktops etc, but there is a "this is what it was MEANT to do according to the dudes who made it" thing.
But, at the end of the day there is no such thing as 'best' which is likely the reason we have SO MANY ROMs and not just the one, doing different things.
The devs are here because people like their devices to do different things and think they can make them better, myself I love to tweak things and so do the devs. Myself I just like to run CM10 on my N7, at least until its stable then I may try out the other ROMs. Also without the devs I wouldn't be able to run my CPU at 500 MHz over what its sold at and same thing with the GPU.
Determining when the development is "done" is subjective. And companies can only support their product in a limited time. Therefore, we need developers to continue where they left.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
socos25 said:
Coming from the Epic, and then from the S3, I have noticed the fragmentation of Android with just the dilution of good development.
With that said, I acknowledge I am a user, not a Developer. I've tried to get interested in development, it is just not where my passion lies.
This is one of those useless posts you see on XDA, however, I feel like there is not much going on in this forum so maybe this is the best discussion we could have.
Take Apple, they have one product to focus on, no one to share the spotlight with. Android on the other hand has several, I have no idea how many, to share the spot light with. S3, S4, S5, Oppo, One, name your poison.
I say all this because I remember back to the Epic... It was Epic. The phone was amazing when it came out, the development was even better.
Now that I'm on the S4, while I don't want to take away anything from what the developers on this phone have done, it is not their fault, but developers will flock to where the demand is. And it just doesn't seem to be here.
Maybe this is Sprints fault? I stay with Sprint because they're the cheapest option I have. Certainly not the best, but definitely the cheapest.
Just trying to promote a discussion, not a flame war. Start now.
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With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
All good points, and I would have to say I agree with you, especially with the shame that developers sometimes are driven away by lazy users.
mxmr said:
With unified builds, awesome devs are still contributing to our device! Its cool that a talented dev who builds aosp but is with verizon can build for us too. There is no shortage of great development going on, but I'll admit the sprint s4 forums are not as active as I remember the e4gt forums being.
To address your other point, sure - the sheer amount of android devices available will mean the pool of talented devs are spread more thinly across the spectrum of devices, but this community rocks and with a little google-fu (xda helps those who help themselves) I don't think development has really stalled. The forums are just a little less active. What IS a shame is that users here will drive talented devs away from releasing their work publicly on the forums by driving them insane with questions that have been answered 100s of times, petty politics, and flame wars, etc.
But at the end of the day, I would rather have an open OS with a vibrant (or dull) community than a locked down device I can never truly have full control over. But frequent upgrades have always been pushed by manufacturers, at the end of the day profits are the bottom line for them. Thats what is so great about this community, is that the devs here do work that would have gotten them a decent commission or wage elsewhere, FOR FREE. God bless :good::highfive:
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I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
mysongranhills said:
I'm not a developer either (well of any roms/android mods at least). But as a long time computer power user and burgeoning programmer (3rd year comp sci major) the development on the S4 is very lack luster. We could get into comparing S4 vs development on older platforms, but I'd rather just discuss the generally bad development in the sprint S4 non-original android dev. forum. Most roms are not suited for daily drivers. I have personally tried 2-3 different versions of Sac's Rom and negalite's rom( as well as 1 try on various other roms) and none was with out major flaws.
The problem as I see it is this: The demand is for the newest rom with the most up to date android features. So as rom developers are getting closer to making a stable working version of their roms, Sprint releases an update at which point most developers switch and start working on new release with out ever making a fully functioning rom. To make matters worse most Rom's are presented as a finished product. Some have a known issues section in the first post ,but I challenge any one who disagrees with me to find a known issues section on a rom that actually contains all the know issues. It doesn't exsist. Instead each user is left to download an unfinished product and only after discovering an issue and digging though 10 pages of forums you find others have the same issue and that there may or may not be a soultion. How f'ing hard is it when a god damn issues is reported to update the orginal post?????? I understand these developers are doing this out of the good of their hearts, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. If it is to much work to keep an up to date list of ALL known issues, have one of the roms users do so. Not much work for one fan of a rom to keep list of issues if dev cant be bothered.
You help no one when custom roms break things working in the stock version and present it as a working rom. Custom roms used to add fucntion to a device now, it adds somethings and breaks others. Till this trend changes, the best rom is stock rooted + w/e mod a user desires. When a bunch of things dont work label your Rom alpha when most things work call it beta and only when everything works call it stable. This kind of common sense would improve everyone's experience greatly.
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To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
arikdahn said:
To a degree, I definitely am with you on this. I have been with this forum since the days of my old HTC thunderbolt. There are AT LEAST 5 popular daily drivers that worked worlds better than the stock rom for that phone. My particular phone glitches out on the dialer/phone app for all Original Android ROM's meaning I am automatically limited to a TW rom. I've tried everything to fix this but nothing seems to. However, there is one that works flawlessly, Triforce 5.4. It's perfect, so far as I can tell, but is starting to show its age. It may be the only perfect ROM for our phones but is almost completely without bells and whistles, unlike the Thunderbolt, which you could save multiple working images to SD and restore if you felt like using sense one day, CM the next, and I do recall a few completely custom ones loosely based on CM that worked awesome. Anyway that's my say on it. I am sad NAE firmware capabilities don't have a nice Triforce release to go with it, but the PRL and firmware seem to work great with the ROM, so I guess I'll stick to it, even if it is boring. It definitely does everything I need for it to do. Still, finding the issues with each one and helping the developers is part of the process. It's fun and part of the reason why I do what I do. Take my ASUS Transformer. That thing is old as the hills, but has multi window, android 4.4.3, windowed apps, and all manner of other things and it runs super smooth. timduru is the dang wizard of that device and refuses to let it die peacefully.
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I just recently got off heavily modded stock and flashed Super S4 and so far it is awesome. Ktoonz's Kernel is baked in and after using recommended recovery to flash I've had no problems. It isn't heavily modded (mostly other mods baked in and some init.d tweaks) but is fast and stable and is one of the very few TW roms I'd recommend.
When I was on HTC Inspire 4G, There were easily 10 Roms (ASOP and Sense) suitable for a daily driver. For the S4 I'd be hard pressed to find 3 stable usable TW roms at a time.
I think android as a platform is changing a lot philosophically, as well. Older custom roms used to be a must have and were the main reason most users wanted root. Now everything is much more framework centric. Now root is used to add functionality through Xposed framework modules,or audio mods like Viper. Previously each and every mod had to be rom specific.