Database Users

General rant

I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?

setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always just load a rom that is stable and one you like and leave it. Your not forced to always update. If you always want the newest and greatest then you have to update, we all knew that when we started doing this.

The unfortunate thing is that ALL roms i've tried have problems with them - things that dont work, bugs introduced when things are changed. And the devs fix some of the probs in the next release, but then new bugs become apparent.
I know this is the nature of development, and I understand this is only way devs can work to push things forward. But it means living with bugs or upgrading the rom to the next version.
I've not found a rom that has the stabililty/simplicity i really want to just use the phone, and not have to mess around with it all the time, or get annoyed because it wont keep programs like the browser running when you change to do something else, or put up with not being able to rely on the phone for its core function of making and receiving calls and lagging left right & centre.
I think that Android's true requirements are beyond the Dream's hardware - and much as devs try, they will never get past that fact, they will just find progressively better workarounds which "sort of" do the job.

If I were you I would go with an older build instead of a newer one that still has bugs. I'm still on Cyanogens 3.9.5 and have no problems with it at all, no bugs or nothing and happy with it. There is also old dude's builds that I use to be on a long time ago that was stable with no bugs also. But of course since those are older builds it might be hard to find, but if your wanting to take a step back and go to something stable and no bugs let me know I still got all roms on my pc at home.

I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware

supremeteam:
I think you're right - I've just restored my cyanogen 3.6.5 backup and I forgot how decent it is, using swapper it does respond quite well. To be fair, the only reason i upgraded past 3.6.5 was because I was always having a problem with the HTC_IME - it would never stay on "phone keypad" rather than "qwerty", and it also interfered with my physical keyboard by turning on the "enable prediction for qwerty keyboard" option. Other than that I never had any problems with it. This problem is a BIG annoyance though...

Oh - and the fact that the phone rings (silently) about 3 times before anything is shown on the screen or a ringtone is heard. Forgot about that one...

Also, I'd just like to add that I am in no way bashing cyanogen - i have found his roms to be the best/fastest/most stable out all i have tried, hence why i am using them. I have used a few other roms that were just a joke, with force closes all over the place, and much more serious bugs/errors than i have mentioned here.
Overall, for me, i think cyanogen is the best dev out there, consistently pushing the boundaries of performance, and regularly updating his rom. That much is obvious from the popularity of his roms' threads.

update withdraw
I agree with you that cyanogen is a great devolper but so are jac and drizzy and those other guys that are putting a ton of work into hero, maybe soon we will have a good working rosie but in the mean time I could rant how those are buggy and lag a lot, but even with a cupcake rom you have to break a few eggs to make an olmet and that are the bugs that we are gonna have to live with, truthfully I am addicted like a drug addict to all the constant update from cyan to see what is next to come, just the fact the I have been on 4.02 for a couple days is making me go through update withdraw, I flash a hero rom just for the hell of it just to see the progress, it was on my phone for maybe a whole 10 minutes before I booted my nandroid backup of 4.02

gridlock32404 said:
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate what you're saying - that i want to have my cake and eat it! I suppose that's true in some respects. I can honestly say that my Dream is the best phone I've ever had, and the efforts the devs make to push the envelope are just amazing! Their knowledge and skills are something special - and to do it all for the love of it (and of course the respect of the community!) is definitely to be applauded.
I do also hope that google devs do read these forums, and incorporate the work into the official roms! I think they should pay the devs on xda, as they clearly do a lot of work that google ought to have done!

I hope that google does donate to these devs because they have done an amazing job with what they have to work with, I just wish I understood programming better and had the patience for it, I think my phone is better than my computer now, wait anything is better the my computer right now since I burned out my power supply. By far this is the best phone I have ever owned and now I am a android lifer because of the devs. When I first got my phone, it was worthless to me before I rooted it, good thing I found xda back when I had my wing so I knew right where to go and by the end of the first day I had it, it was already rooted

If google pays the devs or give them jobs then we will have to wait long time for our update and cool stuff, they need to just donate lots of money to them so they keep hooking us up first at xda and not the general masses all at once, I don't think they could handle the general awesomeness

setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like you read my mind

SPEEDiest stable donut ROM - challenge me...

POST A LINK TO THE FASTEST stable (everyday use) DONUT/HERO ROM
This Thread will list the ROM that is foremost STABLE.. . AND SUPER FAST.
The CURRENT CHAMPION is currently : Dwang
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the reality. MOST ROMs suck in terms of speed. They are slow if you fill your agenda and contacts and add a few widgets. You switch from apps to home you wait, you switch apps wait again, reload etc. Pain in the ass.
So you get the concept, I like speed... AND I want this thread to be about stable super fast ROMS.
I am tired of every rom claiming fast, and blazing and etc.. with the sad reality that the very large majority quite frankly sucks.
Anyone who is using the phone as a real working professional realizes that HERO's suck... haven't found one yet that just eliminates waiting. I just can't deal with waiting 5 seconds when moving out of an app to home or.. into another one..It just doesnt work if I have a call ringing and all the appz bog it down so I can't answer... While some ROMs are trying to be fast.. they still suck if you move a little fast..or have a few things up. That's the reality. And while I appreciate the work of all the devs, I want one thread in here to be about bottom line. Speed & everyday stability everyday use. And I mean not fast right after you flashed it I mean still fast after weeks of use. Many Ron's just come to a creeping halt.. after a while... However a ROM has to be STABLE first (meaning no force closes even after a while) and once it delivers that, then it has to be FAST.
So far I found ONE ROM that is far and beyond above the rest... and it is the current speed champion Dwang (with haykuro spl)
Quite frankly there's nothing that can touch that one. It is stable, has a black theme, bluetooth (don't quite need it though), but is SUPER FAST... meaning no waiting.. it is the only rom, that I consider business-use worthy.. where you can fly through apps, get your stuff done.. it works, does it's thing no matter what you throw at it... leagues above the rest. In fact is is a Rom you can flash onto the Lady's phone and she's gonna love it... which is the ultimate crown for software.
Oh and I am in no way associated with Dwang.. I am just a simple guy who wants a fast and stable donut/hero. If I can get same speed as Dwang in a hero, I'd love to have a hero... anyway.. I'll keep this thread as the speed champion thread (stable). The test infrastructure is a Dream G1.. but others feel free to post your comments.
NOW if any of you guys think you have a rom that works equally well, or you think is faster... please post a link below and I'll give it a shot... I'll run it through its paces with many large calendars tons of contacts and lots of daily use and abuse. However I am not gonna look at test balloons. Test your rom first, make sure it's stable... and most importantly don't go out and throw claims around you can't backup.
So show me what you've got.... For now Dwang is the reigning Speed champion.

I have none of the "issues" you point out with Cyanogen's latest. I'm not going to bother with a link. You should be able to find it.
Edit: Agreed with tazz.

dude, no one cares about what you think of ROM's in development. There's different forums for each phone for a reason. Mods, can we get this moved to general please? This doesn't belong here. Next time, think before you decide to post things that do not belong in development. all it does is just clutter it.

I challenge you to post in the right section.

alec.baldwin has a point, there should be statistics in A part of the Dream forums for everyday usage of the ROM's, I totally agree with him, when I am at home everything is ok with any ROM, but when I am on the road and I am trying to find a location and an IM application is opened and some guy calls me.. everything hangs, even on cyanogen, once it jammed the whole nadroid, black screen, only the notification bar visible and the phone was vibrating, I had to restart it. Anyhow, what's true it's true, this thread doesn't belong here, but it must be somewhere in plain sight. I have tested so far every ROM that has appear in the last two months, and truth be told, I also find dwangs the best, I've been using it like mad, good battery life, extremely snappy, no complaints. And yes, for everyone that keeps saying that the ROM's aren't working well because wipe and format, I ALWAYS repartition my SD when installing a new ROM.
AS ALWAYS, THANKS TO ALL THE DEV's FOR THEYR HARD WORK, remember, this isn't a competition, only statistics, so people can make a good choice without testing everything out there.

When someone says they have a super speedy hero rom, it relates to other PAST HERO ROMS. You cant compare a cupcake rom or a donut rom to a Hero rom. Especially on speed. The sense UI was not meant to run on the G1 nor was it meant to be run on the MT3G. On the other hand, donut and cupcake where both meant to be run on our phones. Thats why they are usually stable, fast, and used on a daily basis while hero roms need completely different frameworks and modifications to even work on our phones. SO, my point is: Hero roms are fast compared to other hero roms being created and they are a WORK IN PROGRESS so let the work progress and stop complaining because we have like 20 devs working FOR FREE just to make people like you and me happy. So Donut will always be faster then Hero. And as of right now, Hero will always be a tad slow, have some loading screens, and lacks bluetooth.

Ok first sorry guys for posting this in the wrong section (admin please move) unless I can (but don't think I can). It took me many hours to find this Rom that delivers - every rom claiming how super fast they are does not make it easy. As newby it takes a while to get the right recovery image, get the right spl, get the hang of it, until you finally get to switchrom or a process that makes testing easier.
Having some XDA stable speed award, or something that would take away all that trial and error and reading through pages and pages of posts to find what is unstable in every rom, having a simple THREAD.. that shows Newbies... look start with XYZ rom. And you have something that is fast, and stable. Then you can go and venture from there. I bet that many get turned off after flashing a hero, or a cyanogen (I first flashed the 4.0... cyanogen and boy what a dog it was, and the hero's are even worse, I was ready to throw it out the window)... all I wanted was something fast and stable, real life worthy. It took me probably about 7 roms to finally find one that RULES.
Also right now dev development has so many dimensions everyone developing in some direction. IT would be nice.. to have a central thread.. if you want speed&stable.. do XYZ. If you want features do ABC... wouldnt it be nice to have an award devs can aspire towards, to get recognition for the work you do...

I just upgraded to a G1 from At&t Tilt. I'm new to the dream threads. I see that you guys are very competitive with your development. That is a good sign because that means that there are hard working devs here. I like

nephron said:
When someone says they have a super speedy hero rom, it relates to other PAST HERO ROMS. You cant compare a cupcake rom or a donut rom to a Hero rom. Especially on speed. ....we have like 20 devs working FOR FREE just to make people like you and me happy. So Donut will always be faster then Hero.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there are 20 devs working but there should be some structure to the madness. I think there are a lot of people that look for fast and stable and simply can't find it because they are lost in so many releases all claiming fast and stable and the greatest thing since apple pie. All I suggest is a simple thread to help new users here to get a positive experience.
Imagine someone is flashing a dog onto their phone... slows it down like you wouldnt believe it after 2 weeks of use... what do you think how likely are they to come back and give it another shot (unless they're geeks and willing to work through it). Now imagine the same thing.. someone starting with a stock donut.. flashing a dwang1.11 and go like "HOLY SH#T".. I'll bet you a positive first experience will do much more for the community the users and the developers than someone with a bad experience.. (trust me I went through that).
The more users you have the more enthusiasts the better for all of us. My vote is simply to create something that gives positive experiences. Does not have to be me.. but someone who is using the devices in the real world.. with abuse and use, large calendars... contacts, just REAL LIFE, and then puts out some recommendations/awards whatever you wanna call it. Do this and you'll see user numbers grow.

YOU CAN NEVER SAY WHAT IS STABLE/FAST
BECAUSE EVERYBODYS G1 IS DIFFERENT
AND UNLESS EVERYBODY IS RICH ENOUGH TO GET EVERYTHING THE OTHER PERSON HAS..
SWAP SIZE
CLASS 6 SDCARD
32B
SPL RADIO
ETC...
THEN THIS THREAD IS USELESS
WHICH IS WHY YOU SAY CYAN IS NOT STABLE
WHILE I THINK ITS THE FASTEST STABLE DONUT ROM OUT THERE
and another thing... the writting up here ^ is not yelling just really big letters =]

i think you are completely wrong, the new sense hero 1.3r1 with the new bfs and 10mb hack have zero lag

this thread is a waste of bandwith.
reported

this has to be the most pointless thread ive ever seen. flash roms and figure out for yourself which is good or not if you dont like it go back to ota updates.

jf4888 said:
YOU CAN NEVER SAY WHAT IS STABLE/FAST
BECAUSE EVERYBODYS G1 IS DIFFERENT
AND UNLESS EVERYBODY IS RICH ENOUGH TO GET EVERYTHING THE OTHER PERSON HAS..
SWAP SIZE
CLASS 6 SDCARD
32B
SPL RADIO
ETC...
THEN THIS THREAD IS USELESS
WHICH IS WHY YOU SAY CYAN IS NOT STABLE
WHILE I THINK ITS THE FASTEST STABLE DONUT ROM OUT THERE
and another thing... the writting up here ^ is not yelling just really big letters =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything you jus said was pure stupid! The only thing you really got to pay for is a class 6 card and thats less than 15 bucks online! If you dont got 15 bucks get a job! Cyan right now is not stable im getting so much fc's on his rom & new people find bugs all day on it. Dwang's is the meanest leanest fastest stable donut rom out there! Have you ever tried it?

I think part of the fun is figuring out what works best for your needs. Some people like flash and glits, running tons of widgets, others are very minimal. But he is right. Every Rom on this site "claims to be the fastest".

Takenover83 said:
I think part of the fun is figuring out what works best for your needs. Some people like flash and glits, running tons of widgets, others are very minimal. But he is right. Every Rom on this site "claims to be the fastest".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, cyanogen claims his will keep you legal for less. nothing about being the fastest there! xD

Enomther's ROMs are very fast and stable...I flash most the ROMs i find but always go back to his. You are posting in the dev section so most the people here are going to say try them all...when most the users don't want to flash all the time.
I would suggest starting a thread in Dream or Dream Q&A, make a poll, do some benchmarks...Have users pay more attention to the annoyances in their ROMs and post them. All of the stuff you are asking about should be run by the community, not XDA! I agree being a noob and coming to this site can be overwhelming, but at the same time it kills off some of the people that shouldn't be modding their phones anyway.
Maybe make a few threads...one showing the fastest most stable ROM, one for the ROM with the most options, one that is the creeper...maybe build that all into one post and you maintain the first few posts...Hell Google Wave invites are floating around, I am making a wave about tips and tricks on the G1 you could try to do something similar.

damnitput
Thansk for mentioning Enomther's rom looks though he's not on Donut yet.. but as soon as it happens I'll give it a shot.
phamous
Legal for less.. well quite frankly the extra dance about the google stuff is just a hazzle. I see Google's point that when you go and waive the mods stuff around on their market (through the updater) that they'd get upset. But the result now is rather absurd..to backup your own google appz and install them afterwards...(I think that's what the status is). The problem I had with Cyanogen is that everyone was hyping up the 4.0.. something (the last one with the google appz) I installed it on my, my wife and my dad's phone.. and it ended up being a really frustrating experience (they're all heavy users). Now the most current version might have things fixed but I am still scared from that experience.
TakenOver83
yeah I have created a few little benchmarks.. switching from this to that, just certain tasks.. in the future I'll just compare Roms by looking at how much time it takes. Then teh ones that are promising will get immersed into a real life test. It would be awesome to have a benchmark program....
jf4888 and Mgorman
Quite frankly just try Dwang's rom.. . that will make you shut up.
jad011
About sense hero 1.3r1 with the new bfs and 10mb hack that should have zero lag. Well I got exactly that one installed... and I personally thought it sucks. Go to browser.. hit the home button. Or other applications.. you'll get seconds of load times. The other thing that sucked is the widgets.. f.e. weather.. as great as it looks.. I have noticed that I am in an app.. go back to home screen.. go to weather widget and it is reloading... even though before I went into the app it had the data loaded. And generally moving through the rom from apps, to settings, to home, to email to messaging to home... I have found one just waits for 3-5 seconds at a time. And it might be that's just normal for HERO, but with Dwang I don't get that. Sure its a donut.. but if you are a real user, you will care a lot more about speed than you do about a weather animation, or a few more polished things... if it would be a major step in functionality.. ok maybe.. but its not. Its a little bit better.. but a lot slower. If you want a more detailed analysis let me know and i'll boot the hero up again and do some measurments to drive the point home.

alec.baldwin said:
TakenOver83
yeah I have created a few little benchmarks.. switching from this to that, just certain tasks.. in the future I'll just compare Roms by looking at how much time it takes. Then teh ones that are promising will get immersed into a real life test. It would be awesome to have a benchmark program....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want a true benchmark test, download Linpack for Android (it's available in most droid markets I believe). It isn't perfect, and it doesn't give a ton of stats, but it does do a pretty legit speed test and you can even save the results to compare against other roms/phones.
I agree with you on the "having a thread that highlights the "fastest", "most bells & whistle", etc"... even if just to tell noobs "start here"... I'm running CM 4.2.3.1 (and yes, it has issues... I've had random reboots, FC's, and plenty of lag) but I've been sticking with CM as it's just easier than flashing a new rom every few days because things start going down hill. Having a thread to go to that would give at least a general idea of how different roms work in the real world (without having to spend my entire saturday reading through thousands of posts, most of which provide no info at all) would be great. But then I'm guessing said thread would fill with useless posts, or at least way too many posts) fairly quickly.
That being said, your better bet is to have a website that is either devoted to (or at least has a section devoted to) this concept. You may have a better chance pitching the idea to the folks at Phandroid.com or AndroidAndMe.com. I'm not saying they'll be 100% behind you, I don't really know any of them, so I can't really say what their interest level would be... but at least on a site like that you can control the "reviews/awards" without getting a billion useless posts making it hard to find the useful info. Just a thought.

yup yup yippee, I used a certain ROM that claimed to be fast and stable and it was just the opposite and also had a bad memory leak. I was running under 20 megs in about 8 hours. there should be an end user grading system, it dosent necessary have to be on xda, but a link somewhere in a sticky in the Dev forum. it could have things like speed, stable, memory, battery, looks, radio, overall quality, etc. on a one to ten scale, maybe a short comment box under 200 words then an overall score that's averaged among the reviews. this will definitely help noobs and devs know what's going on without trying to read over 400+ pages of compliments/complaints and how do I flash this posts.
As much as yall hate the "whats the best ROM" posts, i do find them helpful as i hate wiping & flashing several ROMs, I just want a good one and stick with it. This is just a suggestion, although I think its a good one. Id do it myself if I knew how to make web pages .
oops I just realized muzek pretty much made the same point I did.

Far too many ROM’s released far too quick!!

Maybe it’s just me but I wanted air my views on current crop of cooked ROM’s. I have been an avid flasher since the glory days of cooked ROM’s from the Hermes (TyTN) era but recently I no longer feel the urge to flash, I guess the novelty has worn off me or I’ve just become a boring old fart whatever but to me it seems that a lot of talented chef feel the need or urge to release a ROM every other day with all the bells and whistle i.e. latest drivers, builds etc…. Quantity rather Quality!! The latest and the greatest does not always mean it’s the best!!!
Initially it’s great to have that choice and flash the ROM of the day until the next, just like a kid in a sweet shop all that choice but surely is it not better to release a ROM a few weeks or month down the line then to release it almost on a daily basis? At least that way one would be able to see significant improvements on the ROM!
I would like to make it clear there are very good cooked ROM’s here that would put some stock ROM’s to shame and with the recent advent of the 576 RAM hack it’s just another valid reason for novice to flash, all I’m saying is can we have more Quality ROM’s then Quantity it’s getting to the point “Too many cook spoil the broth”

well, there are many broths out there, not only 1 broth. So it doesnt matter to me.

i am inclined to agree, up to a point.
I used to cook firmware for LG phones (Viewty / Renoir) and often got accused of releasing too many, sometimes just days apart. My arguement then, and now, is that nobody if forcing you to upgrade.
However, the choice of cooked roms is mind-boggling, and there seems to be no definitive comparison table to easily show the differences between them, and the information supplied with each one is not always accurate. I have only had my HD2 for a week now, (and still loving it ) and i have flashed about 5 different roms, and keep going back to the same one, Leo Lite, by Mr Vanderlay. For me it is the best. And so far, seems to be the fastest for my own useage.
I do think there needs to be some collaboration between cookers to make comparisons easier. And perhaps slowing down releases, just a bit would make a world of difference.
Not naming names or ROMS, but some i have tried are indeed the latest and greatest, but some fundamental things remain broken and are therefore not useable in an everyday situation. This is a PHONE after all, and whats the point of reinstalling everything evry single day?
Find something you like, and stick with it

I think the section should be more organised, e.g. a WM6.5 and 6.5.x subsection with WM build and Manila build specified in tags.

g.lewarne said:
i am inclined to agree, up to a point.
I used to cook firmware for LG phones (Viewty / Renoir) and often got accused of releasing too many, sometimes just days apart. My arguement then, and now, is that nobody if forcing you to upgrade.
However, the choice of cooked roms is mind-boggling, and there seems to be no definitive comparison table to easily show the differences between them, and the information supplied with each one is not always accurate. I have only had my HD2 for a week now, (and still loving it ) and i have flashed about 5 different roms, and keep going back to the same one, Leo Lite, by Mr Vanderlay. For me it is the best. And so far, seems to be the fastest for my own useage.
I do think there needs to be some collaboration between cookers to make comparisons easier. And perhaps slowing down releases, just a bit would make a world of difference.
Not naming names or ROMS, but some i have tried are indeed the latest and greatest, but some fundamental things remain broken and are therefore not useable in an everyday situation. This is a PHONE after all, and whats the point of reinstalling everything evry single day?
Find something you like, and stick with it
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Of course no one is forcing anyone to flash! and yes I do have a preferred ROM, my own custom ROM!

Jack E said:
I think the section should be more organised, e.g. a WM6.5 and 6.5.x subsection with WM build and Manila build specified in tags.
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+1
Great idea. I'd love something like that as well. I feel overwhelmed trying to swim through all the choices sometimes.

Hi !
I think some chefs should work toghether creating the best rom ever ;-)Collaboration is the best !!

not wishing to sound elitist, cos im pretty noob at the whole cooking game, but do you not think the lack of a super simple join the dots scheme actually helps prevent accidents by forcing people to do a little investigation themselves?
if it were boiled down to "click here for best rom" people with zero idea what they are actually doing would be flashing like crazy, then complaining when they get a brick.

samsamuel said:
not wishing to sound elitist, cos im pretty noob at the whole cooking game, but do you not think the lack of a super simple join the dots scheme actually helps prevent accidents by forcing people to do a little investigation themselves?
if it were boiled down to "click here for best rom" people with zero idea what they are actually doing would be flashing like crazy, then complaining when they get a brick.
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i think you misunderstood, what we have said is some sort of comparison chart / better named and layed out ROM section would make it easier for everybody. Nobody has stated they want a "click here for the best ROM" system.
eg:
ROM SECTION
--------------------WM 6.5
-----------------------------"Freds rom v1.1" 21889 Manilla 2.5.2010 WWE
-----------------------------"Marys rom v4.5" 21890 Manilla 2.5.1922 GER
--------------------WM 6.5.x
-----------------------------"Andys rom v1.0" 25315 Manilla 2.5.1921 WWE
-----------------------------"Janes rom v2.3" 24001 Manilla 2.5.2010 ITA
whats so wrong with that sort of layout? at least it makes it easaier to find the type of ROM you want rather than trawling through 3 or 4 pages of highly confusing rom names that get all muddled up. Its even worse where some chefs have WM6.5 and 6.5.5 roms with similar names.

Since Leo is currently the most powerful WM device, most cooks definitely would get one, and is understandable lot more cooked roms would be available.
You folks should feel lucky for that. (man, I am still waiting for the NA version...)

jackleung: import one from Australia! 850 3G compatible!
Also, someone tried to create some 'sense' of the ROMs by making www.xdaroms.com but it comes a bit short.
The concept is sound but some things need to happen to make the site great. Namely:
1) Chef support: Dedicated accounts where they can upload freely, add details, etc.
2) UI revision: It looks like the same damn mobile oriented sites we've seen for the past decade

I like the fact that there are many releases and so quickly. I also like the fact chefs are pushing the latest tech to us so quickly even if the rom is not perfect. release early get bug reports release fix etc.. its moving the platform forward and keeping it interesting imho. sure some better organization would be nice but the changelogs on the chefs pages for me do a good job of telling me what's inside the latest creation.
now I have just cooked my own rom I want more faster latest releases of dev branches to play with

I think too that there are too many choices without clear layed out differences between them.
I hope that there were some comparasion but I think its just a matter of variety

There is no substitute for real-life usage bug discovery, so I think releasing newer tech as soon as possible (letting people know that it is sort of beta and will contain bugs) means those bugs can be found and resolved quicker.

Actually, most chefs do tag the topics with WM6.5 or WM6.5.3 and mostly even include the Sense version.
After a while you realize what rom offers what. Personally, i stick with one rom that i am happy with, until the cook changes something that doesn't fit my needs anymore.
Also generally there are concepts to rom design: Some chefs cook roms with particular flavor, i.e. tweaks, hacks, design changes (such as custom task bar, backgrounds, boot splashes), and some just create "stock rom like" roms, that mostly offer either a stock rom with removed junk, or a stock rom with updated components. I prefer the latter.

gfreek said:
Maybe it’s just me but I wanted air my views on current crop of cooked ROM’s. I have been an avid flasher since the glory days of cooked ROM’s from the Hermes (TyTN) era but recently I no longer feel the urge to flash, I guess the novelty has worn off me or I’ve just become a boring old fart whatever but to me it seems that a lot of talented chef feel the need or urge to release a ROM every other day with all the bells and whistle i.e. latest drivers, builds etc…. Quantity rather Quality!! The latest and the greatest does not always mean it’s the best!!!
Initially it’s great to have that choice and flash the ROM of the day until the next, just like a kid in a sweet shop all that choice but surely is it not better to release a ROM a few weeks or month down the line then to release it almost on a daily basis? At least that way one would be able to see significant improvements on the ROM!
I would like to make it clear there are very good cooked ROM’s here that would put some stock ROM’s to shame and with the recent advent of the 576 RAM hack it’s just another valid reason for novice to flash, all I’m saying is can we have more Quality ROM’s then Quantity it’s getting to the point “Too many cook spoil the broth”
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I feel the same, in fact my new years resolution this year is to only flash stock ROMs!. My HD1 was the worst for it, every other day I would be flashing a new ROM, the pattern would normally go something like this:
Week 1
"Steve" finds a new way of improving speed and creates a ROM including the fix, I flash it but find that a few other things are broken.
Week 2
"Sam" then builds a ROM with the new speed improvement and nothing broken. So I flash it. But then realise that its blisteringly fast, because the ROM has nothing in it!
Week 3
"John" then builds a ROM that looks beautiful and has many applications, but lacks the new speed improvements. I flash, and am back to square one! And the cycle continues...
I don't think its anybodies fault, and I don't want anything to change, but I think that perhaps some of the more experienced users are feeling a little jaded now. Whereas the newer users are still in the honeymoon phase of being able to flash new, varied ROMs! I also think that there is more competition between chef's these days, and users demand the new discoveries in their favourite ROMs. (576mb / 1gz for example), meaning that the cycle is becoming ever shorter, as people are discovering new things almost daily!

it is very hard to flash rom every day this way you cannot keep any data on deice you need to inistall programms every day apply tweaks every day so so hard

Schooleydoo said:
I feel the same, in fact my new years resolution this year is to only flash stock ROMs!. My HD1 was the worst for it, every other day I would be flashing a new ROM, the pattern would normally go something like this:
Week 1
"Steve" finds a new way of improving speed and creates a ROM including the fix, I flash it but find that a few other things are broken.
Week 2
"Sam" then builds a ROM with the new speed improvement and nothing broken. So I flash it. But then realise that its blisteringly fast, because the ROM has nothing in it!
Week 3
"John" then builds a ROM that looks beautiful and has many applications, but lacks the new speed improvements. I flash, and am back to square one! And the cycle continues...
I don't think its anybodies fault, and I don't want anything to change, but I think that perhaps some of the more experienced users are feeling a little jaded now. Whereas the newer users are still in the honeymoon phase of being able to flash new, varied ROMs! I also think that there is more competition between chef's these days, and users demand the new discoveries in their favourite ROMs. (576mb / 1gz for example), meaning that the cycle is becoming ever shorter, as people are discovering new things almost daily!
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Well said, I couldn't agree more!

All true and all the different choices don't make it easier but I do notice I usually stick to a few cooks having my favorite roms...
I mean, I like a certain windows build, certain looks (default white clock, no transparent stuff), some basic apps and functionality, no need for a document tab, etc...
As a result I stick mostly to the Miri roms (and every now and then I try another, now running energy since I really liked that on the touch pro) so once you have your mind made up about what you want in general a number already drops out of the picture.

Wouldn't it be better to ask some of this enthusiastic "chiefs" to help developping Android instead for developping redundant versions of windows mobile in different "flavours". It is just waste of time. We need Android, where the real fun is!

do we really need that many android builds?

why in the hell do we need so many builds?
theres now a dozen pages full of different kinds of builds and they all share same issues, just different interface.
i ve stopped updating my build since theres no point, i tried 4-5 dfferent ones and theres really not much change thats worth upgrading every week.
can we leave the builds to people that actually know what they re doing?
instead of turning this into another competition who can produce more builds per week/hour...
its becoming like the winmo section where its jut too much **** and most of people dont know whats goind on anymore...
its FLOODED with garbage. and builds that dont really bring anything new just people wanting to be COOL on the internetz.
i dont mean the developers or builders that actually produce some results, i mean the rest that are just repackaging builds as their own and adding some fkd up themes to it. of course someone will like the theme but you are not contributing to the development of the android platform you just clogging up the pipes with junk...

Wow...
I just say thank you for the ones that work for me and don't use the ones that don't.
Its not like all these people do this for free or anything.
Again wow...
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Have to disagree with you. I came from the slide which had very little to choose from. It is a nice change to have a choice. If themes are your thing then you have a choice..if not then you can have abare bones build. If sense is for you then do it. If not therm load a nexus or CM build. I know you think some o of the themed build are garbage but I can tell you HTCClay releases themed builds that add functionality and are more stable then the original releases. Trust me that it is better to have a choice then have very little to choose from. Just my 2 cents.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

good luck trying to find ones that work.
i havent checked this page for a week or so and i come back here i dont know wtf is going on theres so many damn builds already and most of them share same issues. do we really need all that ?
i know theres people that actually have some progress here and a big thank you to them.
ut there are others that are just cluttering up the board with their repackaged builds without any improvements whatsoever..

u know theres such thing as too much choice.
eithr extremes is not too helpfull.

I agree with the OP. There really shouldn't be pages filled with them..

Well, I disagree. There is nothing like having too much choice. If you want a quick fix, just pick a random build and stick with it. Leave the other builds for us people who have the patience and time to check out all the various builds.

just be grateful at what there is.. and stop *****ing it aint do u good lol

Two words, yes.

what op said is so truE! i was thinking the same thing since the last 10 days ! i think we need perfection not variety ....we need stability not eye candy ....

coolbeer1990 said:
what op said is so truE! i was thinking the same thing since the last 10 days ! i think we need perfection not variety ....we need stability not eye candy ....
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Stop bumping this thread...LOL...NO ONE POINTING A M-16 at you and force you must try all the build,just find the one that suit you most...
More builds means more creativity, more creativity means more stability...
There is no perfect build out there until now...
Furthermore, by reading through every build's thread...Those chefs are learning from each other...for example, darkstone video tweak has been used in many builds now...
Give a chance for new cooker to learn...
Cheers...

^^^ Thanks to you, I found this thread
Yeah more creativity, new breed build EVO sense with Sprint craps in it.

it IS always good to have variety that stays in lead with the variety of tastes on here,however, i do see his point too.it WOULD be nice to have a totally stable build first and THEN theme em up or make different builds from that. ..besides, all these builds have turned me into a test junky. i'm currently seeking counseling.lol

Why are you even complaining?
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

I don't know about the others, but my HD2 is picky.
I need the variety, more possibilities to find a working one.
Some builds are horrible on my phone, mainly the most popular.
No GPS on HyperDroid (My favorite build)
No MMS on 95% of builds.
So yeah, I've spent countless hours going through Radios, WM ROMs and Android builds to find the next best thing for my phone.
Now I've only got an inconvenience of my screen's back light going dull after unlocking about once a day.
And if there wasn't such a variety of builds, even new ones with only the smallest of changes, I wouldn't have a workable build right now.
So it's a mild inconvenience for you to shift through the 2 or 3 pages to find the build you like, don't be bothered by it.
It helps in the big picture.

AmpJack said:
I don't know about the others, but my HD2 is picky.
I need the variety, more possibilities to find a working one.
Some builds are horrible on my phone, mainly the most popular.
No GPS on HyperDroid (My favorite build)
No MMS on 95% of builds.
So yeah, I've spent countless hours going through Radios, WM ROMs and Android builds to find the next best thing for my phone.
Now I've only got an inconvenience of my screen's back light going dull after unlocking about once a day.And if there wasn't such a variety of builds, even new ones with only the smallest of changes, I wouldn't have a workable build right now.
So it's a mild inconvenience for you to shift through the 2 or 3 pages to find the build you like, don't be bothered by it.
It helps in the big picture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to uncheck Automatic Brightness, if you didn't

r u seriously complaining? like reallllly....... r u like realllly like complaining? like really tho. foreals?
gtfohere. go live in a communist country where there is no variety.

There are some builds stand out of the group, because they used their own kernel, the rest is, well, same girl with different dress,...Victoria Secret,...Frederick's of Hollywood, get you excited at first, then... you know.
If you tried almost every build out there, you would realize, it just the same girl with different dress, that's all.

well someone had to say it. And I agree with the OP
First off, I appreciate every chef's work on the Android development on the HD2. After all none of this would be possible without these gentleman.
However after reading through HUNDREDS of pages in various build threads I notice each build has a set of bugs or non-working parts. Sometime shared but often unique to its own build. Often time I think if build A was combined wih build B then everything would be excellent.
I wish these chefs could team up and make one stable build with everything working rather that the situation we have now.. but unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon so it might be time for me to jump ship and sell my HD2 at a lost and purchase a factory Android device.

I can honestly say this is the most hater thread I have seen so far. How can you complain about having a choice??? No one is forcing ANY of you to try every build, so if anything you should take a pen and write these complaints on your own forehead because you are to blame for any new builds YOU choose to apply or not apply. As for me, I like the look of others more than others, the stability of some over others, I have even found some where certain things from the market show up that does not show up on other builds.

A general discussion about an idea that makes perfect sense...

Now, I appreciate everything that these devs have had to offer. I've tried different Custom Roms (With Core Cell 3 being the most stable I've experienced, outside of the annoying Opera Mamory bug)...Android builds...and all that great efforts you guys Put forth.
I look at all these threads and Roms and see the same thing over and over...bugs...bugs....and more bugs...
The most stable Windows Rom I've truly experience is the stock one...lol...not being a smart a$$ at all. Everything just works. Take a registry editor to it and it's provided the most stable platform with Core Cell 3 a hair away from it.
Now, with Android, I see constant bug reports. I mean, people seem to have a great appreciation for the builds and love them, but it always follows up with a major bug...or even worse...lots of little bugs.
What I don't understand is why don't all you devs get together and build the "XDA" Custom Rom or "XDA" Android build that gets undiveded attention and all resources so to make it truly BUG free? Once that has been accomplished...then we can go ahead and try these test builds and play with them...
Now, I say this with a great deal of respect, having worked with developers before I know how fragile the ego's can be
It's also my experience with those same developers that taught me complete focus of resources surfaced the best result.
I mean, an effort like that is something I would pay...eeerrrrr....donate too.
Android seems to be the future for the HD2, at least I think so...some may have a different opinion...that's cool. But as much as I actually like WinMo 6.5...and WinMO 7 showing signs of being a demo at best on the HD2, Android has a future.
I think it would be a great idea for you guys to focus on one thing at a time until it's at a state you can consider it marketable...not that I'm saying that's what you should do...sell things and all.
I would even think it would be cool to take WinMo 6.5 and change it into something completely different and better than what Microsoft settled for...I always promote making Big Brother look silly with a superior view of their own product.
My point is...no matter what platform or approach...get together on it...I bet the result would be far more productive.
I fear though that this idea...no matter how much sense it makes...will not come to fruition...WHAT THE DEUCE!
Looking forward to your thoughts.

well i came up with this idea http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=902534 and would need a thew devs to work on it,about having our own unoficiall Android Rom,Something wich we can say is our own HD2 rom not direct ports if you know were im coming from and pretty much bug free and stable and fast.i know a thew devs came together to create nand so why not do it to create a rom

Thew?
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App

Hah, bug free... That's an interesting idea. The last bug free thing I saw was my Nokia 3210. Since then even my microwave ovens get bugs.

The devs do work together for the most part... different problems get solved by different devs, and they credit each other. I think its amazing what they've accomplished. You should be more than happy with how well we have a port working. I never thought it would get as good as it has, especially as quick as it has. Just look at the Raphael or blackstone... they've been working on ports for those devices for years and are nowhere close to where we are, and might never be.
The devs are doing what they can. This is their hobby... they're gonna work on what interests them. You can't expect them to all work on what you want them to... they would lose interest and we wouldn't have so much innovation. Plus a little competition can bring the best out of a person.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Well most of the bugs in Android are at the kernel level, and there is already a group of developers working on that same piece of software together.
You also have to keep in mind, as other users in this thread have already said, that no software will be without bugs.

I guess...I just know with absolute confidence this idea will work best. Nonetheless, I understand. Also, it's not what I want?...its about completing a task these forums have already put in motion...just at a more effective manor.

i want sense build base on desire hd or z
its will be lite enuf to run from RAM and boot fast
the Data.img will be backed up in the nand but will work from SD card for better performance
that's what i think is perfect to me
RAM gives boot time and less battery drain
data.img on nand and sd card is for better iops and for backuping ur info fast with CWM
u can remove anything u dont use cos it wont be in the RAM
all most important things like email / messages / people browser will run from RAM to get the speed-est performance

As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!

Personally, I think this is a bad idea.
I'm very happy to have multiple developers all working on different projects and supplying us with different ROMs. For example, I hate HTC Sense and prefer stock Android, but lots of people disagree with that and think Sense builds are superior.
If all the devs worked on only 1 ROM then that's all we'd have. 1 ROM. My phone would be the same as yours, and yours would be the same as every other person on the forum. That would be pretty darn boring! If you ask me, more choice is better.
"If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other."

I never said stop working on different flavors of Roms. Just focus on an XDA Rom. Once refined, let the flavors flow...right?

You know, I approach this topic from a respective and open discussion approach with an expressed curiosity at most and the best you can do is confuse it for moaning?
It's guys like you that start all the flaming, when you have people who are simply exchanging ideas.
There's always a few out of the bunch that can't resist being abrasive aka a$$holes while others are just chatting.
AGxM said:
As has been stated, aren't most the bugs pretty common to all builds in one way or another therefore indicating that the problem is at the programming level rather than the rom developer level.
IMHO find one you're happy with and take the bugs with a pinch of salt - the HD2 is still one of the most exciting handsets about and to have the ability to experiment with all this thanks to the ROM guys and the tools developers on here is just blooming fantastic!
Stop moaning and appreciate what we have here!
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