Maybe it’s just me but I wanted air my views on current crop of cooked ROM’s. I have been an avid flasher since the glory days of cooked ROM’s from the Hermes (TyTN) era but recently I no longer feel the urge to flash, I guess the novelty has worn off me or I’ve just become a boring old fart whatever but to me it seems that a lot of talented chef feel the need or urge to release a ROM every other day with all the bells and whistle i.e. latest drivers, builds etc…. Quantity rather Quality!! The latest and the greatest does not always mean it’s the best!!!
Initially it’s great to have that choice and flash the ROM of the day until the next, just like a kid in a sweet shop all that choice but surely is it not better to release a ROM a few weeks or month down the line then to release it almost on a daily basis? At least that way one would be able to see significant improvements on the ROM!
I would like to make it clear there are very good cooked ROM’s here that would put some stock ROM’s to shame and with the recent advent of the 576 RAM hack it’s just another valid reason for novice to flash, all I’m saying is can we have more Quality ROM’s then Quantity it’s getting to the point “Too many cook spoil the broth”
well, there are many broths out there, not only 1 broth. So it doesnt matter to me.
i am inclined to agree, up to a point.
I used to cook firmware for LG phones (Viewty / Renoir) and often got accused of releasing too many, sometimes just days apart. My arguement then, and now, is that nobody if forcing you to upgrade.
However, the choice of cooked roms is mind-boggling, and there seems to be no definitive comparison table to easily show the differences between them, and the information supplied with each one is not always accurate. I have only had my HD2 for a week now, (and still loving it ) and i have flashed about 5 different roms, and keep going back to the same one, Leo Lite, by Mr Vanderlay. For me it is the best. And so far, seems to be the fastest for my own useage.
I do think there needs to be some collaboration between cookers to make comparisons easier. And perhaps slowing down releases, just a bit would make a world of difference.
Not naming names or ROMS, but some i have tried are indeed the latest and greatest, but some fundamental things remain broken and are therefore not useable in an everyday situation. This is a PHONE after all, and whats the point of reinstalling everything evry single day?
Find something you like, and stick with it
I think the section should be more organised, e.g. a WM6.5 and 6.5.x subsection with WM build and Manila build specified in tags.
g.lewarne said:
i am inclined to agree, up to a point.
I used to cook firmware for LG phones (Viewty / Renoir) and often got accused of releasing too many, sometimes just days apart. My arguement then, and now, is that nobody if forcing you to upgrade.
However, the choice of cooked roms is mind-boggling, and there seems to be no definitive comparison table to easily show the differences between them, and the information supplied with each one is not always accurate. I have only had my HD2 for a week now, (and still loving it ) and i have flashed about 5 different roms, and keep going back to the same one, Leo Lite, by Mr Vanderlay. For me it is the best. And so far, seems to be the fastest for my own useage.
I do think there needs to be some collaboration between cookers to make comparisons easier. And perhaps slowing down releases, just a bit would make a world of difference.
Not naming names or ROMS, but some i have tried are indeed the latest and greatest, but some fundamental things remain broken and are therefore not useable in an everyday situation. This is a PHONE after all, and whats the point of reinstalling everything evry single day?
Find something you like, and stick with it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course no one is forcing anyone to flash! and yes I do have a preferred ROM, my own custom ROM!
Jack E said:
I think the section should be more organised, e.g. a WM6.5 and 6.5.x subsection with WM build and Manila build specified in tags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Great idea. I'd love something like that as well. I feel overwhelmed trying to swim through all the choices sometimes.
Hi !
I think some chefs should work toghether creating the best rom ever ;-)Collaboration is the best !!
not wishing to sound elitist, cos im pretty noob at the whole cooking game, but do you not think the lack of a super simple join the dots scheme actually helps prevent accidents by forcing people to do a little investigation themselves?
if it were boiled down to "click here for best rom" people with zero idea what they are actually doing would be flashing like crazy, then complaining when they get a brick.
samsamuel said:
not wishing to sound elitist, cos im pretty noob at the whole cooking game, but do you not think the lack of a super simple join the dots scheme actually helps prevent accidents by forcing people to do a little investigation themselves?
if it were boiled down to "click here for best rom" people with zero idea what they are actually doing would be flashing like crazy, then complaining when they get a brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you misunderstood, what we have said is some sort of comparison chart / better named and layed out ROM section would make it easier for everybody. Nobody has stated they want a "click here for the best ROM" system.
eg:
ROM SECTION
--------------------WM 6.5
-----------------------------"Freds rom v1.1" 21889 Manilla 2.5.2010 WWE
-----------------------------"Marys rom v4.5" 21890 Manilla 2.5.1922 GER
--------------------WM 6.5.x
-----------------------------"Andys rom v1.0" 25315 Manilla 2.5.1921 WWE
-----------------------------"Janes rom v2.3" 24001 Manilla 2.5.2010 ITA
whats so wrong with that sort of layout? at least it makes it easaier to find the type of ROM you want rather than trawling through 3 or 4 pages of highly confusing rom names that get all muddled up. Its even worse where some chefs have WM6.5 and 6.5.5 roms with similar names.
Since Leo is currently the most powerful WM device, most cooks definitely would get one, and is understandable lot more cooked roms would be available.
You folks should feel lucky for that. (man, I am still waiting for the NA version...)
jackleung: import one from Australia! 850 3G compatible!
Also, someone tried to create some 'sense' of the ROMs by making www.xdaroms.com but it comes a bit short.
The concept is sound but some things need to happen to make the site great. Namely:
1) Chef support: Dedicated accounts where they can upload freely, add details, etc.
2) UI revision: It looks like the same damn mobile oriented sites we've seen for the past decade
I like the fact that there are many releases and so quickly. I also like the fact chefs are pushing the latest tech to us so quickly even if the rom is not perfect. release early get bug reports release fix etc.. its moving the platform forward and keeping it interesting imho. sure some better organization would be nice but the changelogs on the chefs pages for me do a good job of telling me what's inside the latest creation.
now I have just cooked my own rom I want more faster latest releases of dev branches to play with
I think too that there are too many choices without clear layed out differences between them.
I hope that there were some comparasion but I think its just a matter of variety
There is no substitute for real-life usage bug discovery, so I think releasing newer tech as soon as possible (letting people know that it is sort of beta and will contain bugs) means those bugs can be found and resolved quicker.
Actually, most chefs do tag the topics with WM6.5 or WM6.5.3 and mostly even include the Sense version.
After a while you realize what rom offers what. Personally, i stick with one rom that i am happy with, until the cook changes something that doesn't fit my needs anymore.
Also generally there are concepts to rom design: Some chefs cook roms with particular flavor, i.e. tweaks, hacks, design changes (such as custom task bar, backgrounds, boot splashes), and some just create "stock rom like" roms, that mostly offer either a stock rom with removed junk, or a stock rom with updated components. I prefer the latter.
gfreek said:
Maybe it’s just me but I wanted air my views on current crop of cooked ROM’s. I have been an avid flasher since the glory days of cooked ROM’s from the Hermes (TyTN) era but recently I no longer feel the urge to flash, I guess the novelty has worn off me or I’ve just become a boring old fart whatever but to me it seems that a lot of talented chef feel the need or urge to release a ROM every other day with all the bells and whistle i.e. latest drivers, builds etc…. Quantity rather Quality!! The latest and the greatest does not always mean it’s the best!!!
Initially it’s great to have that choice and flash the ROM of the day until the next, just like a kid in a sweet shop all that choice but surely is it not better to release a ROM a few weeks or month down the line then to release it almost on a daily basis? At least that way one would be able to see significant improvements on the ROM!
I would like to make it clear there are very good cooked ROM’s here that would put some stock ROM’s to shame and with the recent advent of the 576 RAM hack it’s just another valid reason for novice to flash, all I’m saying is can we have more Quality ROM’s then Quantity it’s getting to the point “Too many cook spoil the broth”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same, in fact my new years resolution this year is to only flash stock ROMs!. My HD1 was the worst for it, every other day I would be flashing a new ROM, the pattern would normally go something like this:
Week 1
"Steve" finds a new way of improving speed and creates a ROM including the fix, I flash it but find that a few other things are broken.
Week 2
"Sam" then builds a ROM with the new speed improvement and nothing broken. So I flash it. But then realise that its blisteringly fast, because the ROM has nothing in it!
Week 3
"John" then builds a ROM that looks beautiful and has many applications, but lacks the new speed improvements. I flash, and am back to square one! And the cycle continues...
I don't think its anybodies fault, and I don't want anything to change, but I think that perhaps some of the more experienced users are feeling a little jaded now. Whereas the newer users are still in the honeymoon phase of being able to flash new, varied ROMs! I also think that there is more competition between chef's these days, and users demand the new discoveries in their favourite ROMs. (576mb / 1gz for example), meaning that the cycle is becoming ever shorter, as people are discovering new things almost daily!
it is very hard to flash rom every day this way you cannot keep any data on deice you need to inistall programms every day apply tweaks every day so so hard
Schooleydoo said:
I feel the same, in fact my new years resolution this year is to only flash stock ROMs!. My HD1 was the worst for it, every other day I would be flashing a new ROM, the pattern would normally go something like this:
Week 1
"Steve" finds a new way of improving speed and creates a ROM including the fix, I flash it but find that a few other things are broken.
Week 2
"Sam" then builds a ROM with the new speed improvement and nothing broken. So I flash it. But then realise that its blisteringly fast, because the ROM has nothing in it!
Week 3
"John" then builds a ROM that looks beautiful and has many applications, but lacks the new speed improvements. I flash, and am back to square one! And the cycle continues...
I don't think its anybodies fault, and I don't want anything to change, but I think that perhaps some of the more experienced users are feeling a little jaded now. Whereas the newer users are still in the honeymoon phase of being able to flash new, varied ROMs! I also think that there is more competition between chef's these days, and users demand the new discoveries in their favourite ROMs. (576mb / 1gz for example), meaning that the cycle is becoming ever shorter, as people are discovering new things almost daily!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said, I couldn't agree more!
All true and all the different choices don't make it easier but I do notice I usually stick to a few cooks having my favorite roms...
I mean, I like a certain windows build, certain looks (default white clock, no transparent stuff), some basic apps and functionality, no need for a document tab, etc...
As a result I stick mostly to the Miri roms (and every now and then I try another, now running energy since I really liked that on the touch pro) so once you have your mind made up about what you want in general a number already drops out of the picture.
Wouldn't it be better to ask some of this enthusiastic "chiefs" to help developping Android instead for developping redundant versions of windows mobile in different "flavours". It is just waste of time. We need Android, where the real fun is!
Related
My understanding is that a cooked rom is a rom that has lots of bit's taken out and then cabs etc put back to make the HD2 run with better performance etc.
But there are so many roms on here, that it has become confusing as to which rom to put on my device. Also what happens when a new legit rom from HTC comes out - doesnt that mean that all the cooking starts again and we end up with thousands of roms?
I would have thought that the additional software installations after installing a new ROM to get the phone in a decent state would put most people off lol.
This is not a dig btw - i have installed a cooked rom, but i think the forum needs to be maybe reshaped a little more i.e. another category with each rom version.
Agree. Would like to see some kind of categories, maybe one for "Featured ROMs", they are cool, gives a hint of what will come, but they might be unstable. One category for ROMs really close to stock, but with minor changes...
i totall agree.. i am a new member as you can see on my number of posts.. i would really like to get to know which rom update is for what and which works best with htc hd2.
need help.
Just do some more research and find what you like.. and use it very often.
Custom Roms are for everybody and each chef has his own kitchen.. and receipe. Someone goes for speed the other for stability.. and some other chef again for a better layout.
I agree sometimes it is difiicullt to see what features are added and to compare which rom suites your needs best, but you could filter it all for you self. Select all Roms that have your interest and filter down to 2 or 3 Roms... then flash those 2 or 3 roms and try them for a few days. You will able to tell which one is best for you
It's up to you which one you choose.. so for lazy people who do not want to search.. stick to the shipped Roms
Bouloama said:
Just do some more research and find what you like.. and use it very often.
Custom Roms are for everybody and each chef has his own kitchen.. and receipe. Someone goes for speed the other for stability.. and some other chef again for a better layout.
I agree sometimes it is difiicullt to see what features are added and to compare which rom suites your needs best, but you could filter it all for you self. Select all Roms that have your interest and filter down to 2 or 3 Roms... then flash those 2 or 3 roms and try them for a few days. You will able to tell which one is best for you
It's up to you which one you choose.. so for lazy people who do not want to search.. stick to the shipped Roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 for this one.
It's ur own thing!
Well, All these roms are the personal preference of the maker with some feedback and input from the users. The only way is to decide is read the descriptions and perhaps see what apps are included and mainly, which version of windows mobile (all 6.5 but some the newer 6.5.3(?) version with the taskbar at the bottom and some fingerfriendly stuff), which version of manilla (2.5.1922 is the newest with a document tab but some bugs), etc.
The rest is just a matter of personal preference and trying.
It has always been like this and it works wonderfully... newbs that come here and say this kind of stuff should first try to understand how this forum works and WHY there are so many roms..
Like i said - i agree on the principle of it - but why not create sub forums with rom versions etc so the layout is easier. Being called a newbie because i havn't posted many threads is rather insulting
I really love the way it is now. It gives you freedom to choose, and make your device more custom. I would however like to see alot of cooks go together and create "the perfect rom".. Some cooks go for stabillty, others for speed, someone for visuals. Combine all those chefs recepies and you would have one fantastic rom i believe
I agree with Da9L!
If you spend more time with xda-devs you will see a structure. If i need a WM 6.5.3 ROM i search only for the Sys.Build (28xxx). Very easy.
1. I like having the choice between many different ROMs..you simply have to see what fits your needs the best.
2. Most people stick to their favorite cook because they have similar "taste" and usually you stick with it.
we have many 5-star cooks here and its hard to single out ONE great ROM. There is no universal solution so take a close look at the ROM description and see whats added and removed, look at the bugs and changelogs, the builds and decide if it might be your taste.
i love changing roms in search of features speed and new layouts.. but i always forget which rom was on which version when i last tried it . and now especially with new and different versions of manila and htcsense it is getting a bit of confusing...
I wish if there is a single chart of all roms where they keep atleast some basic information...
like
Name of ROM -- LAST UPDATED-- OS VERSION-- MANILA Version -- Changelog etc
something like this (except its for ANDROID ROMS)
http://db.androidspin.com/android_build_information.asp
tell me what you guys think of this....
Variety
That's like walking into a restaurant and saying, 'why all the different meals?' Or a bar and, why all the different girls? Or why all the different cars? It's the whole point of this site. Viva la difference!
Xaddict said:
That's like walking into a restaurant and saying, 'why all the different meals?' Or a bar and, why all the different girls? Or why all the different cars? It's the whole point of this site. Viva la difference!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True...
But with a menu, you have categories. "Main meals" (full featured rom?) "starters" (clean rom without manila or any addons?)
You just have to have a look at this forum
TheDynamo said:
My understanding is that a cooked rom is a rom that has lots of bit's taken out and then cabs etc put back to make the HD2 run with better performance etc.
But there are so many roms on here, that it has become confusing as to which rom to put on my device. Also what happens when a new legit rom from HTC comes out - doesnt that mean that all the cooking starts again and we end up with thousands of roms?
I would have thought that the additional software installations after installing a new ROM to get the phone in a decent state would put most people off lol.
This is not a dig btw - i have installed a cooked rom, but i think the forum needs to be maybe reshaped a little more i.e. another category with each rom version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You just had to read and learn
the thread title is very misleading based on what the TS has to say
in any case, the current layout is fine. i do not think it is very "efficient" to keep going down sub-menus
It would be nice to have a XDA market were al ROMS and stuff can be rated, that would certainly sort things out
Personally I wish there were more ROMs! Like someone said, this is how its always been, this is how it is, and this is how it will always be.
It would be good if the chefs stuck to the official thread naming scheme.
I was gonna provide a link to it, but cant find it now
Rated by who
nwolsink said:
It would be nice to have a XDA market were al ROMS and stuff can be rated, that would certainly sort things out
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only one that can rate the best rom for you is you
What might be the case
Many of the ROM's have no layout customizations and vary
often only a little in included applications, tweaks/driver patches.
If a new user installs a couple of ROM's , chances
are differences aren't all that big, and the question arises, what's the point ?
If one looks at the older devices, one can see an almost vulgair
choice of styled, tweaked and pimped beyond recognition ROM's.
I mean the ROM's where you open the default games folder and there's 10 games, 19 great themes to choose from, 6 clocks, and what's more.
The fact those ROM's aren't available (yet) could be strange to people relatively new to XDA.
Maybe it's something all different
Edit : forgot to mention Xanitechs Pandora ROM which has "styling" (works like a charm for me)
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
I noticed that too, then again...most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...and don't require as much hackery as the G1 Roms did...I dunno whatsup with any ports as of yet, but I'm sure things will pick up.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
most of the nexus ROMs out are near perfect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly it. The fact that there aren't constant updates to ROMs is a success I think...it means nothing is horridly broken. This is the first phone I've had in a long time, that I've been so satisfied with, I'm not flashing a new ROM every other day.
We have the latest version of android out there that is accessible by the public or the ROM devs (that they can release).
We aren't trying to backport features because of the above.
The only real (I say real in a non "thanks bro" way) ROM porter we have is without internet (I assume on vacation).
As stated above, most things already work as they should.
While development is slow compared to the G1, also remember that all of our devs also do work on other devices and don't just devote all their android expertise to just one phone.
There isn't any new material to work with. Until Google releases FroYo or new beta updates we're at a stand still.
If you worked in the software world, you would be seeing this as a good thing
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go!
http://android.git.kernel.org/
Hope to see some awesome ROMs from you.
Enjoy!
Its a good thing because there are no major bugs in existing ROMs. They only get updated when google or some dev introduces new features...
This is my first phone which is still running stock ROM. With all my earlier devices...something always seemed broken or felt like it lacked something.
When I had Touch.. Touchflo was launched by HTC and all the ROM development was diverted to getting Touchflo on Touch. And with lack of enough RAM, there were always choices to be made on what you want and hence many ROMS
Then I got Diamond. It was good, but again had less RAM than Touch Pro. Again race was to get Touch Pro features in Diamond and again choices had to be made to cramp up things in the limited storage.
Then I got Touch Pro... and within few months, Diamond II and Touch Pro II was launched. Cooks started scrambling to get new touchflo 3d on Diamond and Touch Pro.
Then I got Diamond II, and sure enough HTC continued there trend of backstabbing it's customers and launched HD2 with new touchflo aka Sense. Cooks then started to figure out ways to get Sense UI on diamond II.
So you see, there were always things lacking... which forced cooks to figure out things that HTC should have done for us. HTC's first Touch phone was launched along with iPhone... but touch hasn't received any updates for past 2 years.... and Apple is still supporting iPhone (although no OS4 for them).
N1 on the other hand is Google's responsibility. We have the latest OS and features. There is not enough "to-do" things here.
Regardless of that, our Chefs are doing amazing job at giving us the features which AOSP is still finalizing.
With all due respect to you.. I think it is a bit unfair to say that the chefs aren't doing much.
chowdarygm said:
Hi all
Love my Nexus One
being a heavy user of many winmo and android devices feel like the ROM development on this is very dull
any reasons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, we'll get right on it, boss.
It is "slow" because the phone and the ROMs are so damn fast and good already. You can't port 1.5/6 ROMs over because we can't map the buttons without having a 1.5/6 Kernel made for the Nexus One. That is never going to happen.
As well, really? What is slow about the development? We have tons of new apps coming out all the time, the ROMs we have a super fast and super stable. New Kernels every day or two pushing battery life and CPU power even further.
There is tons of development going on. Just because you aren't seeing new ROMs every day doesn't mean a lack of development, it means the ROMs we have are super solid, and development has shifted to making the other aspects better, like apps themselves, and so forth. That is one of the best things about Android, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get some new apps, like HexiLauncher and what not, all you need to do is install the app, and voila you have a new home/launcher option on your phone.
Or, you don't need to flash a new ROM just to get a new kernel, you can flash the kernel yourself (if you know how to follow simple instructions) that gives you the newest features, and features that mean more to our phones running super fast than a new ROM would mean... actually by ROM I am talking about system.img...
Anyways, if you really think things are just way to slow, then either learn how to do it yourself, make a huge donation to your favorite developer on the basis of them picking up the pace (and by huge, I mean 50k+, so they can quit their day job), or just accept the simple fact that there is a ton of development going on already, you (and many as of late) don't seem to understand enough to realize that kernels and apps are more important, at this point in time, than a ROM update every other day.
LOL another one of these threads curious as to what else can you ask for? All the tweaks that are available and possible for this phone has already been done.
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Now this I would agree with you. The number of ROM devs are a lot less compared to the G1, :-( the phone is fairly new though.. But the ones we have working on the N1 are all great nevertheless .
chowdarygm said:
thanks to all those who replied.
i am not blaming any chefs. they are doing a highly respected job and i respect them and their work very much. thanks to all of them
i was just telling that the no.of chefs on this device are very less but maybe the reasons are diff as everyone told
like king personally coz he does experiments like blur and others
personally i like experimenting with diff roms , so only felt little jobless as compared to other devices but happy with almost perfect device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
re: above post..
hahahaha... "XDA Syndrome"
Seriously though, Modaco has been gone for awhile. Got stuck cuz of the volcano issue... it's been weeks since he has released even an update!
We are a little spoiled with the N1 I think... on top of that with 2.2 coming out shortly I think a bunch of cooks will be kinda waiting for that to come out before they do any more major tweaking.
The main thing I personally am waiting for is a fully working SenseUI on the N1.... I kinda thought it would materialize much quicker once the DESIRE came out.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... i think i have the same problem im feenin for another enom rom but as he stated he was on vacation which i can respect cause im going to Miami soon. I have no complaints to the rom development but i'd love to see more themes like motoblur style X10 style i miss my motoblur theme on my magic
[edit] And before your go saying i should make one myself i tried and it was to difficult for me for some reason.
Coming from winmo myself it was a change not having a dozen or more roms to choose from but in reality looking at it objectively most of the roms are either adding something that came in a newer device or more or less a rehash of what was already done in that they didnt do anything new but they did it in a different way. Not that the latter is a bad thing, the improved layouts people came up with greatly eased, speeded up, reduceded the number of clicks, etc. in getting where you wanted to go and I at least was happy to see them coming down the pipe. As an aside when winmo was as youthful as android is now there was a lot less rom activity than what you see now as best as I can recall back.
arkavat said:
ahh.. so you are suffering from what I call XDA syndrome. It's when you start feeling uncomfortable when you haven't flashed a new ROM in a week. I had that too... back in WinMo days... fortunately N1 has helped and I have resisted so far!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, I had that like 2 weeks ago...kept flashing and flashing and flashing...finally I settled on my highly customized 5.0.5.3, still haven't jumped to 5.0.6 due to wifi issues (and me being suspended until payment next week)
I had 'XDA Syndrome' with my Magic.. I found myself flashing something new (ROM or theme) every week. Now with my Nexus, I have no desire to do so. Like others have already said, I think it's a testament to the stability of the ROMS out there coupled with the fact that 2.1 is already kick ass. We already have the best software on our N1's people. Believe me, once 3.0 or even Froyo comes out we will see an increase in ROM development.
Also, there may not be many devs for the N1 as of now, but many of the absolute best ones have a Nexus so I'm not worried about future development.
Don't worry, NRGZ28 has no plans to retire yet (I hope ). This thread may get closed or may only get a few replies, but your feedback is appreciated if you would be kind enough to post a few words...
It's not one of the usual "which ROM should I choose threads". I'm experienced here enough not to annoy you all that much!
The problem is that since I flashed my first EnergyROM on my Diamond or TP (can't remember which), I can't divert from them. Great for NRGZ28...that's obviously the desired effect, but I see so many other ROM threads in these fora, and it's obvious so many people choose them over EnergyROMs for one reason or another. Basically, I like the fact that they look great and come "fully-loaded", and a big thing for me is that the latest WM build (currently 23563) is used to cook from. A "stock" or "lite" ROM isn't much good to me as I would just fill it with all the same stuff anyway, only not being cooked in it probably wouldn't all work together so well.
What I'm asking for is what others are using instead of EnergyROM and why.
What I'm most worried about is that I'm so stuck on EnergyROMs that I might be missing something else. I recognise completely that all of the ROM chefs are super talented in what they do and I wouldn't know where to begin in cooking myself. I mean I like to think that I'm pretty well techie-minded, but the thought of ROM cooking hurts my head! All those XIP and SYS and pagepools, lua script & manila files, all the ExtROM stuff that gets constantly updated that I wouldn't be able to get hold of, not being in the right circles. I just can't bring myself to try because I know it could always be better.
But also, I don't like to constantly flash all the time, once a week is enough I think and this is what keeps me from testing other ROMs.
Thanks for reading and I hope I didn't just waste 2 minutes of your life and a few kilobytes on the xda server! I'm sure there are more "EnergyROM addicts" out that are wondering if anything else compares.
Whatever ROM you choose you will be missing something. The right question is:
Can I live without that feature/application/tweak/theme/etc?
Choosing custom ROM over stock has its obvious advantages. Using stock has its advantages also: warranty is not violated, you have support from manufacturer etc.
Custom ROMs are different story. They are made by individuals according to their taste: from eye-candy (or lack of it) to choice of apps and tweaks.
EnergyROMs have nice eye-candy, they are nicely optimized with good app choices. There are ROMs that are faster. There are ROMs that are close to stock look, so you can modify it according to your own taste. There are ROMs with no additional apps so you can install exactly what you need. Some chiefs refresh their ROMs more frequently than NRGZ28, so you get new build faster.
Personally, I stick to the "good old" 21XXX builds and flash only when there is important update in newer build. Something like improvement in speed or some feature that is important to me (battery life, newer Office build, or fix for something that was not working as it should).
EnergyROMs are used by many so bugs and problems are found much faster and, consequently, fixed faster.
I have tried almost all other ROMs but for some reason, EnergyROM on HD2 presents for me, personally, perfect combination of looks, features, stability and battery life.
You make some very valid points...am I right in considering you an EnergyROM addict too?
In fact all of what you have said is completely my way of thinking. Although I use the 23XXX builds. For some reason I have some (un)healthy compulsion to have the latest of everything, which is one of the main reasons I use EnergyROM in the 1st place (and I also why I bought a HD2 when I had a perfectly good TP2, much to my wife's dismay!
)
I couldn't go back to having the "Start" and "X" buttons at the top. That's SO 4 months ago!
Anyone else wanna throw anything in?
Admire al chefs but..
Yes, I admit I have a NRG addiction as well.....
I do try other chef's cooking as well, especially because NRG takes the time to release new builds, and others come out with theirs earlier. I find myself time after time going back to his, either 'downgrading' or flash one of his as soon as they come out.
What other ROMs I try?
I would categorize them like this:
1. Eye candy - Some chefs here are extremely talented is combining their own looks, or co-operating with people with high skills of developing beautiful looking screens.
2. Performance - I always look for a ROM that will have no lag , be memory efficient (not that the HD2 lacks any) , and one without bloating.
I think the appeal NRG ROMS has on me (at least) is the combination of the Italian beauty (see the cars they make) and the German precision. On top NRG is here in the US, and it gives him another advantage for me. Not sure if he is on AT&T or not, but until now any recommendation he has (like going back to 2.07 radio) was a great advice.
I try from time to time Miri's , Tom Codon's , IT's (sorry, not on this forum any more, but still a great chef) and Dutty's, even some others. All are great piece of work, and I do want to take the opportunity and thank all of them, but as stated - NRG's are always the ones I finally keep on my phone, and dare travel with..
i think there are some fundamental differences in chefs way of thinking.
I for one (and i know a few others who have stated as much) are cooking primarily for ourselves. we just choose to share the work. I will listen to requests, and if it is valid that it gets taken care of. Of course bugs affect everyone, so they take a priority.
Many other Chefs seem to "cook for the masses" and therefore appeal to a wider audience.
I dont think it is any any way fair to consider one chef over another by something as simple as post count on their rom thread (not saying you do this its just an observation).
If you feel comfortable with a style of rom, there is nothing wrong with sticking to it. but as you say, it never hurts to look, and so you have.
Going back time and again to one chef is more a compliment to that person, and nothing to be concerned over.
matmaneyre said:
But also, I don't like to constantly flash all the time, once a week is enough I think and this is what keeps me from testing other ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I flash every morning (atleast)...sometimes even before taking a crap
Anybody knows any bone diseases I may end up with, please warn me !
On the better side of the thread intention , I for one personally end up with a Clean rom with no extra apps so I can make it my 'own'.
Always two sides to a coin... or many sides to a paper note if you fold it
Hi all,
First of all, I wish to preface this by saying how appreciative I am of the assistance and wealth of knowledge I have found on this forum. Without it, I must say I would have been pretty disappointed with my HD2 n its purely stock form. Much like the appstore is the iPhone's primary selling point, I believe the customisable nature of WinMo devices is their main selling point and is the reason I chose to purchase an HD2 over an iPhone (other than the cost/Tech Specs) of course. This thread is in no way intended to take away from the amazing work our chefs do!
I would also appreciate if any "If you don't like customising, why are you here?" comments off this thread also as that is not in any way what this is about. god knows I have destroyed enough PC BIOSes and mobile phones trying to customise them or tweak them for the maximum achieveable performance before it all became so mainstream.
I know this kind of a question is going to get people into "attack the n00b" mode really quickly, but i feel it is a legitimate question which could spark some insightful and intelligent discussion.
I was just wondering what your honest opinions are regarding the use of cooked ROMs.
At present I am using an up to date stock ROM with many added tweaks including CHT1.7.1 and the tweaked graphics drivers and am more than happy with the way the phone looks and operates. there is no software that is missing from the stock ROM which I feel would benefit me in any way and the phone seems to operate quickly and seamlessly and so far I have not experienced any reliabillity issues.
With a long standing background in the electronics and software development field, I have always been quite a strong believer in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" principal, but as I consider you guys and girls to be an intelligent bunch with a wealth of cumilative knowledge, I am interested in your opinions on the cooked VS customised stock ROM debate.
From what I can gather the benefits of a well developed cooked ROM such as EnergyROM or CleanEX ROM are as follows:
Menus are neatly organised and catagorised.
Extra software which is considered to be useful is preloaded.
Interface is tweaked (albiet usually no moreso than it can be with a few mods loaded on to a stock ROM)
UI and animation speed improvements.
The arguements against are as follows:
Risk (however low it is) of bricking your device
Compatabillity with different devices
Warrenty is voided (even though this can in most cases be avoided by flashing bck to a stock SPL)
Reliance on one person, or just a few people for updates rather than a huge company.
Personally, I have never used a cooked ROM, but I have been considering installing the EnergyROM on to my HD2 s it is the most closely matched cooked ROM to the way I have customised my stock ROM, however as I am currently quite happy with the way I have my stock ROM set up, I am wondering if there are any extra benefits that I have missed. It would almost seem that in my case, I am better off just sticking with the tweaked stock ROM as it serves all my needs and scouring pretty much any thread relating to a cooked ROM, I seem to stumble upon a LOT of bugs (hich have usually been fixed in subsequent releases).
To me it would seem that a lot of the time, the appeal of cooked ROMs is the "Elite" and "Geeky coolness" factor rather than actual functionallity.
Discuss....
Excellent post mate and I hope it's taken in the spirit it's intended and you're spared all the usual nonsense when questions are asked.
I've been on here a few months, but rarely ventured into the ROM's section, fairly competent with everything in the "Themes + Apps" section and like you, have my phone looking and performing pretty much how I'd want it.
All I'd perhaps want, and the reason I dip in here every now and then for a look, is perhaps a ROM which removes some of the redundant (for me) applications, ie Twitter, Footprints, Stocks etc to perhaps speed things up a little as my RAM is constantly at 60% and I'm getting low on internal storage memory despite installing everything which can be to the SD card.
But again, I wonder if there is perhaps more to this ROM flashing and whether I'd notice any real advantages which I'd not considered?
One other question for anyone who feels like answering, and it will seem silly. Are the softkeys in 6.5xx all aligned with the right hand one set further in than the left (ie non-symetrical), may seem a minor thing, but it just doesn't look right to me and if I was going to flash to something newer, I'd like to know if it can be changed.
Probably complete "noob" type questions, and apologies for partial hijack of the OP's thread, but as someone else had dared to ask some points that I'd like answered, I thought I'd stick my oar in and we can both be flamed together then.
Thanks for the support
I am the admin on another forum so I am not afraid or unfamiliar with flameage!
I'm looking forward to seeing what discussions this sparks
i think a VOTE would be great for this page....
Hi I would think the best advice would be that if you are happy with your ROM and you are not having any issues with it. Stick to it, this way you will have the peace of mind that your warranty is still in tact and you will not have to revert to reflashing to original stock without any risks.
Flashing on the other hand is fun and I feel the ROM cooks do a fantastic job of tweaking them so they work most efficiently. The chefs also remove programs that are not used that often which gives us more memory to install programs that we will actually use and the chefs also update to the newest builds for software which is dorment in the stock roms e.g. google maps,opera etc. If you update these on stock roms, it takes away valuable space due to the programs installed twice (you cannot usually replace the stock ROM versions and overwrite them with newer builds).
Naturally you will get issues cropping up with things going wrong and this is mainly due to the fact that the chefs use the newest builds before they are released officially so you can have a feel of new things that are put into them. I personally like to stick to one or two chefs and follow their progress, this way you will generally be ok as you will be aware of any minor problems and their fixes. If you flash many different ROMs with different chefs, you may encounter different problems with each of their ROMs and feel that ROM flashing seems to cause more problems than solutions.
I hope this clarifies some of your queries.
chiraag said:
i think a VOTE would be great for this page....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I considered it, but I thought a vote makes it a little too black and white. I'd rather a more in depth discussion on the pros/cons
Adiction!!
There's nothing wrong with stock ROM's what a little tweaking can't solve.
and there wil always be problems and things that don't suite you in a cooked ROM.
Bud if you would try it once it wil become an adiction to find the newest and/or the fastest that suite your needs the best.
if you follow the guide's the change of bricking your phone are slim bud there is always the posebilety
I think it's one of the best things of my HTC and no risk no luck.
(bud don't listen to me because i'm an addict)
Well it took a while before I flashed a cooked rom into my phone. I use Artemis roms, and those are the only one I have tried yet - and I really do not think I will ever try another since most of them have silly and ugly mods baked in.... I like the newer 6.5.5 with bigger soft buttons and the "start" down on the left. But the most important thing is speed - with artemis, everything the phone can do, the phone does it faster running Artemis than Stock rom. Often _much_ faster. Starting Opera 10 for example takes roughly 2 secs with Artemis, 5-6secs with stock...
I started to flash custom ROMS because I got sick and tired waiting for HTC to solve my problem with data connection. I tried all sorts of official and unofficial tweaks and patches without success so I decided to take the risk with the flashing adventure.
After flashing a few ROMS from different chefs I eventually found THE ONE that solved my frustrating problem out of the box. Not only that but I was also very impressed by the performance and by the chef himself - always there, always wanting to improve, always fair and balanced. So I settled for it and it's the only ROM I flash to my phone.
I would also like to add that I prefer the close to stock philosopy because I want to do the customization myself. Even so, in my opinion custom ROMS have the following advantages compared to stock:
- you have many options to chose from
- they prove to be faster and more stable
- you have LIVE support from the chef and the other users
- you get updates much, much faster and more frequently (even if beta builds)
- you get all sorts of goodies cooked in the ROM (tweaks, apps, etc.)
- with the ROM I use you also get an app built by the chef himself to tweak the ROM to your likings
- it's rather fun to do it
just my 2 cents
I'm the same as the above poster. I got sick of waiting for my mobile operator to update the ROM (O2). I had SMS problems, data connection problems, freezong problems, the list goes on.
Then i turned into a frantic flasher..up to 5 times a day, looking for the latest and greatest. I was forever setting my phone up and it was taking over my life! I even tried cooking my own with pretty decent success.
I'm now more settled and gone for a ROM thats closer to stock with a few tweaks. It does what i want and pretty quickly too. Its a million miles away from the original phone i got back in early December, but that a good thing.
on a functional level much of the surface features that cooked roms offer could in theory be done with cabs and tweaks, but some things can only be cooked in.
also, cooking in a fix or tweak means it is there from the start, so when you hard reset it the system isn't needing to be patched, so the fix is more stable.(generaly)
on another level many of the chefs really do know a thing or two about building roms and can make them smaller faster and more stable than the stock releases.
I personally never flashed a device...I have to admit that with CHT1.7.1 things been running smoothy and perfectly. The idea of removing some applications on standard ROM sounds really great like footprint,shares,music sense...which i dont use.
As Sentinel196 says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" , i guess i come from the same school in that sense.
by the way with all the cutomization available for CHT i find it really hard if people do not like their htc hd2
I do believe the HD2 is a very good compromise between 'works out of the box' and 'can tweak 'til the cows come home'. It's a modders dream but at the same time probably the only WinMobile device that I thought to myself "I might actually stick with a stock rom, it works"
Curiousity got the better of me... WITHIN HOURS... of getting the device. First off I noticed I was locked to Vodafone's stock rom (it was obviously a Vodafone customer selling on a new handset), I couldn't get the latest rom from HTC so HSPL'd it and flashed to stock 1.66. Good stuff, it was working fine for me.
Then I got curious again some days later and tried 6.5.5. I definitely prefered 6.5 to 6.5.5 and believe it feels much more 'balanced' on a device of this nature (giant screen, few hardware buttons) so decided I wanted to go back to 6.5 after some days of use. I remembered the stock rom did have a lot of 'junk' attached to it, despite operating blazing fast. I found CleanEX on here and from the description it sounded like a good compromise - the stock rom but with junk removed, more 'under the hood' tweaks added and all underlying software updated. Fantastic. I've been flashing to it 'til now and can't see me going anywhere else for the time being.
So yeah, the HD2 out of the box (for the most part, I realise some people have experienced bugs) is a decent device. However, coming here turns it into an AMAZING device capable of just about anything. Having the choice is fantastic. When people ask me about me about my HD2 Vs. the iPhone I can't help but be honest and state 'the iPhone just works', if you want the HD2 to fulfill its full potential you'll need to 'dedicate time to it and be one with your inner geek.'
For people stuck with locked down operator roms, the rom section on XDA is invaluable as it would seem o2 UK (my operator) have ONLY JUST upgraded their rom from the version people were using in Nov '09. Sorry, but that is ridiculous and no customer should have to wait that long for a device like this to have its bugs ironed out when people 'breaking the rules' can have it right off the bat with a bit of a learning curve. Just another reason why operator branded bull**** is a waste of everyone's time -- like movies being released in the US months/years before the UK in the 90s & til mid '00, it took file-sharing to fix that!
I also strongly believe if people are willing to come here and read the 'basic' threads & take a little time out, support here is absolutely second to none. Better than an RMA to HTC, better than your operators forums, just fantastic. This does however support the idea that the HD2 is somewhat another device kept alive by XDA-developers... which I'm sure will become more apparent in the future after WinPhone7 is released.
tl;dr - The HD2 is a HTC phone which, once again, benefits more than anything from the development, tweaks, mods, hacks, customizations and support given here.
Some excellent posts so far. Thanks everyone!! Looking forward to some more insight.
I'm certainly becoming more and more tempted to HSPL and flash a cooked ROM just to satisfy my inner nerd and curiosity!
Until a few weeks ago I was a stock ROM user. To be honest the stock rom was ok but just didnt seem very stable to me with resets a normal part of life. Having looked through the various ROM threads I decided to stick with a fairly stock cooked rom and chose Artemis.
After the first few days it was very apparent that this was the way forward. Artemis transformed my HD2 into what I believe the device should have been, stable and a joy to use.
I think before you can decide on a cooked ROM you need to decide on what you want a cooked ROM for. Is it for stability (in my case) or for added features such as extra tabs, preinstalled cabs etc.
I cant fault Artemis v11, is as stock as you can get with a cooked ROM and is fast, stable and very user friendly but I expect that others will have critism over this ROM against another, like I say there are many great chefs out there and its down to personal choice which is the best.
I love cooked ROMs. This is my first Win Mo device and I have to say when I first got it I was pretty disappointed(December last year). Was pretty damn buggy and slow! O2 UK didn't seem in any hurry to release any of the improved ROMs(not sure if they have even released an update now). I did the various tweaks that people have listed to improve the phone and was pretty pleased with the result. When HSPL came out I figured I would give a cooked ROM ago as if me a n00b doing a few tweaks could make my phone better imagine what pros could do! Flashed Duttys HG series and was blown away! Have been flashing them ever since (tried a few others but always come back to Duttys). It feels nice to have all the latest software bundled up and tweaked for me! Just about to flash from HG v2.5 (COM5) to HG v2.6 (COM5). Will be maybe the 20th time I have flashed my phone Gets better each time
Always cooked. Stock roms are always lacking something... cooked, especially with kitchens allow you to play around and have fun.
Now, regarding the future of cooked roms? that much is very very doubtful. I doubt we'll see many WinMo cooked roms after 2010.
I first had the default ROM 1.43 and everything was allmost OK with little glitches here and there (first of all the battery didn't last long) then I had the official 1.48 update wich I promptly applied and everything worked the same with little things improved (still terrible battery life) then after a couple of months of constants soft resets or taking out the battery for a reset I decided to try Miri's ROMS wich are great (I always prefered the close to stock) but still with battery problems until I learned I can upgrade the radio only without damaging the ROM wich I did and somewhat improved, but just a little, then I tried Dutty's wich are great roms (still close to stock and more stable at least the COM2 version) finally I decided a couple of days ago to give a try to EnergyROM which have additional software and I whent the GTX route, and I really love it, speccially since the battery is lasting me longer with the same radio update as my previous rom and with the lovelly GTX theme but some things like CHT seems to work better cooked in that installed separatedly, in my opinion I think you will have a lot of benefits using a custom ROM, but first use the original rom a couple of months to evaluate if your unit is functional (try everything: FM radio, GPS, light sensor, etc.) and then when you get to know your device try the custom rom of your choice and prepare to be amazed, once you go custom....
Good luck!
Maybe i am talking about the wrong thing here but i will say it. In the HD2 there is very little (if not nothing at all) noticeable difference between stock and custom Rom (except some registry modifications that you can do them with the stock rom as well). It is mainly in the addiction that cooking provides that you can see a difference. In the HTC Touch HD although the difference between stock and custom rom (mainly the Custom Roms that come from the HD2) is VERY VERY BIG. The last stock rom that HTC provide is 1 year old (7/4/2009) with 6.1 Windows, Black and White slider icons, Manila 1.XX etc. So in some cases i thing Custom Rom is more needed that the Stock Rom. But in the case of the ultra-fast HD2 i believe that the difference is much much smaller.
Wow - a front pager!
Sentinel196 said:
I would also appreciate if any "If you don't like customising, why are you here?"
[...]
I know this kind of a question is going to get people into "attack the n00b" mode really quickly, but i feel it is a legitimate question which could spark some insightful and intelligent discussion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sentinel196 said:
I am the admin on another forum so I am not afraid or unfamiliar with flameage!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd share in case you hadn't noticed; despite your concerns, you managed to make the 'front cover' of XDA-Devs!
http://www.xda-developers.com/
Next - Time Magazine?!
Good post, well deserved. Enjoying the conversation and Mass-Debating(!).
Hirshy
I received this question in a private message earlier and though I'd share the answer with everyone. This topic can be used to answer the above/below question yourselves too and hopefully others can find it helpful and respond with their own opinions too.
Please don't reply directly to another comments but purely give your own opinion on the following question. I want this topic to be without fighting or slander!
I am curious to your opinions on a "good" rom?
(note the question in the PM too me was a bit more detailed so my answer goes into quite a few different factors, its up to you how detailed your answers are)
My opinions as to what makes a good rom. Very interesting question. There are many factors. Most important personally is the person who is developing it. I like the villain team because there is a whole team behind it and they are very easily accessible to ask questions and fix bugs etc. The support on their website is stunning. That's not to say all the devs who don't have a dedicated team and website aren't as good. Raudg (or the guy who created vanilla eclair and choco eclair) was awesome. Very good support, though last I heard he fell ill and hasn't been on since, which is why his rom's are now a bit outdated and I probably wouldn't recommend them. The elelinux and Floyo rom's are also meant to be brilliant and I would expect good support from both of those too. I'm still hesitant of using the Cronos rom's due to the history behind the developer. I also found during benchmarking no noticeable difference between the Cronos rom's and any of the others. I will say no more on the issue.
One big secret that the dev's tend not too let onto is that almost all rom's (performance wise) are almost identical. The main reason I haven't continued the benchmarks recently is because after spending about 5-6 days (9am to 9pm) benchmarking well over 20 different rom's every one felt almost identical to the last. None of them lagged any more than another, and although I picked up minor bugs every now and then in different rom's there was typically very little to differentiate them. I generally found that with use you got used to each rom and the minor annoyances either made me change rom or I would just live with it until it was fixed. Having said all of this there is a significant performance difference between Sense UI and Vanilla rom's. Vanilla rom's might not necessarily benchmark better but they consistently "felt" faster to use.
On that note, I don't think i would go back to v2.1 of android. I love vanilla (with launcher pro) too much too go back, and 2.1 is no where near as good as 2.2. Especially with emulated flash in the Skyfire browser now.
I'm yet too benchmark all the 2.2 rom's against each other. Purely because of the amount of time it takes to do, and the limits of the results.
So what would I recommend:
1. Don't be afraid too try other rom's. I can't stress enough how easy it is too flash rom's. As I said I flashed over 20 rom's in less than a week and had no issues. You can always get into the recovery menu so you can always go back to a backup of an old rom.
2. Back EVERYTHING up. Another thing I can't stress enough. You never know when something might happen. I backed up apps etc with titanium backup and the rom's with nandroid built into the recovery. I then backed up my sdcard (which stores these backups) onto my computer. SO i had backups of backups. As I said - can never be safe enough!
3. Love you're dev's. Leaving ****ty messages on their topics when something doesn't work never solves anything (not that I expect this of you). If something isn't working ask about it and give as much detail as possible. Its really hard to fix an issue when someone says "gps doesn't work". Solutions always lie in the detail.
4. Pick a release that is well supported. Check the thread last post date. Check the last edited date of the first post (with the release in it). Don't bother using any release that is more than 2 months old (typically) and if there hasn't been a post in the thread for over 1 week ask yourself why! The best rom's tend to have at least 1-2 posts a day and have been updated with some sort of fix/release within the last 2 weeks.
Finally, if you really want a list of my top 3 rom's at this point in time it would probably be:
1. FloydVillain 1.5 (due to the support & community)
2. Floyo 1.1.8 (due to the awesome feedback its been getting recently)
3. elelinux's Froyo 2.2_RC1 (due too it having an experienced dev)
I'd probably say that Fusion ROM 2.2.1.9 is worth checking out too, and Tegro 2.1.2 if you like the slide interface (i'm very tempted by this one). They are my wild card rom's at this point in time.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there,...
I have to agree and say that for me personally it does boil down to..........
1... Top priority... Who the developers are, are they still actively developing fixes for any bugs there may be in their ROMS? And also how well they communicate issues/news/advances back to the community as a whole, to both end users and other devs alike.
2... Low priority... amount of users / comments from users in thread. But this is not so important in comparison to the developers as the only way to be sure is by trying them out 1st hand.
So for me, I dont think I would even bother trying a ROM from a developer whos ethos I cannot share, but I have no problem running a buggy alpha ROM If I think my feedback will benefit the dev to bring fixes.
A ROM should have Sense UI. I won't install any Froyo ROM until there is a stable and everything-working Sense UI ROM for it. It's just too geeky to use without the Sense UI. The other thing is the team behind the ROM. I definitely prefer ROMs built from teams than ROMs built from one single guy. Villain are my favorite. I think that's all.