Database Users

The state of Android homebrew.

When the G1 came out it was the only Android powered device so modding it worked for everybody. And it was just one brand, HTC, so this forum was a one stop destination for modding our phone.
However, things have changed, now there are multiple phone with incompatible hardware from different manufacturers. Now a custom rom made for the G1, won't work on a DROID for example and vise versa. This complicates things quite a bit.
Right now Cyanogen mods are the best thing for our G1 and maybe the best thing for Android as a whole. I'm used to the build in tether capability and apps to SD and compcace and the other perks of a modded rom. But if I wanted to upgrade my phone, I would lose it all.
There are no Cyanogen mod for anything other than G1 and myTouch phones as far as I know and if I were to upgrade to DROID, I would lose root, lose tether, lose apps to SD, lose everything about my phone that makes it my phone.
Everything I wrote may not be facts, I don't really know what goes on at other forums, but I know that we don't have roms build to run on the DROID and we don't have them built to run on the HERO hardware, it's all for G1 and myTouch, and it seems to me that if I don't ha.ve on of those phones, I lose everything.
I do understand that this forum is for HTC devices which DROID and a few other's are not which is why I don't see homebrew for them. Is there a another website similar to this that supports all Android hardware?
These are thoughts that have been running through my head lately. If I am totally wrong here, please let me know.

I would say check out websites such as androidcommunity.com, androidandme.com, phandroid.com. The developers might not be on there but you can probably find links to where there are custom roms for the phones.
And you are right about different phones having different development oppurtunities. I thought about this today and realized that the next android phone I get not only has to be what I want but also be a popular phone that will attract developers such as cyan, maxisma, jac, manup and everyone else. My best guess and hope is that it will be a snapdragon android handset, hopefully for T-Mobile USA.

What we'll end up having to do is pick our phones based on it's community support and what kind of home brew is available for it.

The reason I love the G1 is the fact that it's rooted and has a large community. This phone is the best on the market, all things considered, because the rooted OS allows so much.
If and when the Droid is rooted, when a GSM version is released, and when it has T-Mo's 3G bands, I will move to it. But all those may not happen for another year or more. If you haven't played with a Droid yet, do so. Incredible speed and the best screen I have ever seen on a phone. Till then, G1 all the way.

The man is right, we have a problem on the dev side.
I think though, once 2.0 gets standard, we'll only need root for a few things like tethering and setting the CPU clock. Really cyanogen's only advantage is optimization, but once 2.0 and snapdragon rolls around, who cares? We'll always want to tinker, but it won't eclipse getting the phone you want.
The big problems right now are that the market isn't getting what it needs. Nothing compares to the HTC widgets, yet instead of cloning them on the market, we try and run a ROM that doesn't even work on our phones! We still don't have BT in Hero and it may just never happen.
2.0 will be what we need as a base, but the market needs our help now.

I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..

alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
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Click to collapse
Thanks but this thread is not about who has the best rom.
The point is, when you get a new Android phone, your rom of choice won't be available for it. So what do you do?

alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we all get it already, YOU are dwang's biggest fan
But, to stay on topic. My G1 is the first HTC device I've ever owned and I've only discovered XDA since I've had it, and I think that because of the community involvement here and the custom roms that have come out, I will definitely lean towards another HTC phone when I look for my next upgrade, and it will definately be an android phone.
Also another thing to look at is the availability of the phones that are out to actual dev's. Unless people are donating phones, I doubt everyone can just run out and pick up all the latest devices, and network restrictions/preferences that come along with them.

I think the easiest solution is as follows:
1. Find the dev you like best.
2. Find the phone you like best.
3. Buy phone you like best.
4. Buy/Create a donate link to get said dev the same phone.
Assuming said dev doesnt turn around and craigslist the phone you bought him/her, you have (hopefully) ensured said dev will migrate and develop on your favorite hardware.
Not the best solution but probably the most reliable.

alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
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Click to collapse
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.

cyanogen said:
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
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Click to collapse
For real.
Alec, you're like the little annoying brother that no one wants to be around.
Grow up, let your balls drop, and enjoy your phone, your life, and whatever rom you want.
But, you don't have to go around dissing well-respected devs.

The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
dwang said:
I want to acknowledge cyanogen, daproy, cyrowski, loccy, and alla for their contributions to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.

AthlonBoy said:
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
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Click to collapse
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?

Pinesal said:
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beats me, man. I'm not a developer. But I think it's unlikely.

For the DROID (and other/future android phones) is Apps2SD really necessary? The only reason why we need it on our phones is because of the pathetic amount of internal space the G1 has, the same goes for Swap Partitions etc.
As long as people buy the phone there is always going to be someone who is smart enough to work on rooting it IMO. And even without root what do you really lose? The only things I think I would really miss are Wireless Tether and Bluetooth File Transfer (Which I THINK is in 2.0 anyway).

I'm not buying a new phone until it's rooted and Cyanogen has it too.

My biggest requirement for any android phone..and any cell phone in general is the keyboard. I bought the G1 because of the keyboard and lucked out with the high number of developers available for it. I didn't find this place for several months during the time when the grandfather of the G1 mod program was still active =) JF!. I enjoyed all the modding and updating because I personally feel that the phone is, well mine. And I should be able to do what ever I want with it. I had picked up the V3C Razer because it could play MP3's. I get it home and then discover that the Verizon Nazi's completely locked down that feature so you where forced to use their service at an additional cost. Of course the motorola dev/repair/store software allowed us to get in a enable the various features that Verizon required to be locked. I also love the Aps2sd. No matter what phone you have, the internal memory will never be enough. And with the Cliq supporting 32gig sd cards, a full keyboard, and NOT verizon was enough for me. I'm patient and confident it will be rooted eventually. If not, I still have my G1 and I still do Cyanogen updates and play around with it. And when my contract is up with Tmob(renewed for the Cliq), I'll see who has the next most popular rooted phone with a keyboard and switch over. I just really hate people telling me how to use a device I own. Its like going to McDonalds and having them dictate what condiments to put on my BigMac and Fries, and then telling me I can only eat it a certain way and which hand to use. If Cyanogen was down with the Cliq, or interested in it. I may be willing to ship him my phone to see what he can come up with.
As far as a universal O/S for all phones, isn't that just the core Android software with specific drivers provided by each manufacturer and custom UI? There should be a way to make 1 O/S for all android phones, then have update packs with the drivers and UI enhancements and add-ons for each android phone released? Not sure of the SPL locks though. Thats a bit beyond me. But i wouldn't think it would be to hard to run Cyanogen on the Cliq or droid provided the correct drivers and such where bundled with it. Kind of like slipstreaming a service pack into a bootleg Windows OS . Each phone eventually has to release the source code which contains the drivers for that phone. Thats how we get the Cliq's OS onto the G1, should work the other way around too. Sounds easy, but Cyanogen's Rom should run on my Cliq, provided the drivers are slipstreamed into it for the Cliq...right? Only problem is root.. :/ hehehe

and there he flames again...alec.baldwin, no one has the problems you have with cyanogen's latest. actually, lets delve into this...what exactly are your "problems" with 4.2.5? PLEASE, answer this question so cyanogen can dutifully fix the "problems" you are having.
You might check out some of the Q/A threads to first learn how to properly flash cyanogen's ROM. It is slightly different than Dwang's because Cyanogen uses the legal method. In fact, check out www.cyanogenmod.com and you might find a ton of useful info on getting cm to work on your phone.
Best of Luck,
njuncos
P.S. Cyanogen, mad props on once again reaching over a million thread views on your latest. Now you own 3 of the top 4 most viewed threads of all time in Dream Android Development!

HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action for distributing ROMs

READ YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...kers-with-legal-action-for-distributing-roms/

I guess I know what i'll be downloading all day till I got work

That's for Windows Mobile.
hTC can't stop anyone distributing AOSP ROMs, but they could throw the hammer down on distributing their Sense ROMS.

Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.

wcdisciple said:
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
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Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
HTC is only one company of many building phones with Android. Whether you like Sense or not is your decision. G1 and MT3G (with google) were never intended to run with Sense. And no one can sue us for using AOSP ROM's. So i have no problem with it compared to apple, who will preselect the software for you...
Jailbreaking the iPhone isn't legal by the way...
PS: don't want to start an Apple/Android war, but leaving one company suing others for another company suing people since years and taking it for the reason why, seems a bit curious to me...

hudl said:
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
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He's been on a rampage with it.
On a better note: I don't think this will stop ROM development. Didn't xda go through the same thing, but HTC didn't care about the actual developed ROMs?
Edit: Can't find anything to support that. :/ Remember reading it somewhere - might have been bs, but I swear it was on xda news.

HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action - WORST MISTAKE EVER
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.

legend221 said:
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they didn't take it down because of them being custom ROMs. They were all just the basic stock ROMs that came with the phone. Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP. However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs.

r3s-rt said:
Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP.
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Click to collapse
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
r3s-rt said:
However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs
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Click to collapse
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.

legend221 said:
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
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Click to collapse
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.

r3s-rt said:
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
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Click to collapse
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
r3s-rt said:
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.

legend221 said:
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!

r3s-rt said:
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
No one said the C&D came from HTC, seeing as you are a reader on xda I knew I didnt have to explain this to you. hahaha. It is in Google's best interest to let the Devs continue thier greatness because guess what many would jump ship to Windows Mobile devices or other OS including the iPhone even though there are not Roms for it I believe. If Android Development was not allowed to continue, at least most people would stop buying Android powered phones I believe.
Yawn........ time for bed now.

Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?

legend221 said:
No one said the C&D came from HTC
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Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
legend221 said:
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
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I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Binary100100 said:
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
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Click to collapse
I'm not under that assumption; I take you include me in the all. I just stated that at least this won't affect custom ROMs and he went on about how custom ROMs are so different and don't contain IP. That's what I've been trying to get across in all my posts. And no, I don't think their sales will be affected .

r3s-rt said:
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
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Click to collapse
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.

legend221 said:
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
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Click to collapse
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.

r3s-rt said:
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.

lbcoder said:
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Didn't even think about all that.
2. That's exactly what I thought. Microsoft is so scared of a lonely developer doing better than what their out-the-ass payed developers do. Honestly, why would the manufacturer of the phone give a damn what you do with it when you buy it? No matter what way you look at it: their task is to sell the phones they manufacture.

Why it is so difficult?

I do not want to upset anybody, just trying to get some understanding of the entire upgrade to a new OS version.
I'm a programmer myself, but on Windows platform and mostly do middle tier business server side apps. Do not know a thing about Linux and android. But had some java experience in the past.
I wonder why we cannot get Froyo so long? Ain't the sources open? Even if we do not have some drivers, these parts cannot change dramatically from version to version. Published API must be stable...
Is this about Dalvik JVM? But, I guess this must be in released ROMs for other phones in the line.
What's the deal? Will appreciate some explanation here.

Android is open source, but that is only the operating system and the kernel, but the drivers and RIL that make the device actually functional are the issue as far as I'm aware. From what I've read here and in IRC, Samsung gave us a hack-job RIL, which is causing many of the issues with getting an AOSP ROM fully compiled and working. I think there may be some driver issues as well to be worked out yet, but I feel those are less important than getting things like phone/data/messaging working. I'm guessing there are more technical reasons why they can't just get 2.1 or 2.2 built from source, but those are probably the big issues.

Honestly, it boils down to Samsung.
Put simply, they're crappy coders (as HTC once was many moons ago), or they're just hella lazy (I strongly believe its the former, given RFS and this RIL mess). Most companies are pretty crappy coders, but most of the time, it doesn't interfere with major things, like OS upgrades.
That, plus the lack of effort or support on Samsung's part, has me never wanting to buy another Samsung phone again, or ever recommending an Android phone from Samsung....
I'm gonna do my best to find in my next phone another quick processor with a nice super AMOLED screen and be done with Samsung, I've had enough, and I'm a very patient person....

What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)

CNemo7539 said:
What is RIL? Is this Radio Interface Library?
Is it linked into kernel or other module? Not extractable at all?
As I imagine it to myself, if it is some sort of dll or package, it shouldn't matter if we do not have source, because it's interface have to be already strictly defined. It doesn't matter if it is buggy. It should work with any android version.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
P.S. I have Dell Axim v50x and people already created ROM from scratch! However it doesn't have RIL. ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if it could have been done, birdman would have done it already

Well I think it's a valid question. Some might think it tedious or obnoxious, but absolutely valid. This is a development forum after all. The reason we don't have 2.2 isn't a hardware limitation, so it must be a practical one -- or yes it would be here.
But I'll just speak from speculation in the hopes that someone will correct me. For god sakes this is a development forum! We've got releases, we have fixes, we have patches, we have complaints, we have gossip. I'd love to see all the _development_ discussion I can get.
From a wider puzzle-piece perspective, I would like to know what is missing. We have working drivers. We have working hardware. We have full source from Google for the operating system. There are several other android phones on Verizon, a few even have Froyo. Sprint currently offers a CDMA Galaxy S phone (Epic) with android 2.2, and that phone possibly shares some hardware (though the WIMAX radio is totally irrelevant to us).
I'm not up to speed on exactly what the RIL is, or how it gets plugged into the android kernel. The RIL (Radio Interface Layer) is a software layer between android itself and the drivers controlling the phone hardware. Google provides some samples for a carrier to create one to govern communication on their network. I'd expect one issue of randomly hacking something like this, is if you are taking over your radio hardware's communications, then you have the capability of putting unwanted data on the network, which might even be criminal. Am I being extreme? So, perhaps we can't touch the RIL and need to wait for it to be spoonfed to us by those that bought the radio band from the FCC. Perhaps this code is inexorably married to particular hardware, unavailable for reading, or even encrypted. Maybe the primary limitation is the royal pain in the apricots that it is to inspect, decompile, and reverse engineer binary code.
But what if we could do something?
My understanding is the RIL is only a carrier-specific interface to the underlying hardware. Shouldn't it be similar between phones, even with wildly different hardware? Shouldn't its interface also be similar between close versions of android? The Droid 2 is a verizon phone with a RIL that does indeed work with Froyo. What I'd like to know is A) can another phone's RIL be extracted within the same carrier, and B) Being the abstract entity that it is, what prevents it from being married to the Fascinate's hardware base?
To be honest, I ardently believe a frank discussion (sans opinions, complains, problems, just productive discussion w/ a smattering of facts) BELONGS in the Development forum.
I'll stop here, in case this thread dies, as so many of mine do.

Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I don't know anything about how the RIL works, but I would assume that it could only be easily ported from one device to another if they were using the same chipset in the underlying hardware for the phone. I doubt you'd be able to take the Droid 2/X RIL, and take it to the Droid 2 Global or Droid Pro. Given that, I'm guessing that you can't really take a RIL from one phone and put it on another without extensive work, since most OEMs tend to use different hardware in their devices. From what I've heard, there is a semi-working AOSP build floating around, so the devs are trying, but Samsung's crappy source to work from is not making things easy for them.

There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

ksizzle9 said:
There are actually some semi-working builds of aosp floating arpunfld but the last time I checked one out it was missing one thing that I consider to be kind of a biggie. It couldn't quite make calls. I'm sure they have it to make calls now but there is a reason its not out to the forums yet. I agree withstand nuts up there. Thanks you Samsung.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe there was still no radio at all in aosp, and the hope is that 2.2 can fill in the gaps

Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?

CNemo7539 said:
Wow, wow, wow!
Why do we need another phone RIL? Current one from SF at hand should do perfectly. Did Google changed something in android API related to a RIL? I don't know for sure, but never heard or read anything making me think they did it. Android should call RIL and that is set in stone. ALL calls signatures must to be known. Something new may be added, but it is not show stopper.
So, I still do not understand - is it not extractable or what?
Even if not and it is somewhere in protected memory, encoded or whatever, Froyo slapped on top must work, IMHO. And sources available. So, why we stuck waiting for Samsung?
I know, one may say - do it yourself if you are so smart... Once again, I just want to understand root of the problem. I probably can do something, because I have degree and experience. But, it will take me forever. From what I've tried and seen learning curve is very steep.
On the other hand, skilled developer might simply need fresh look at the problem... May be guys just hitting wrong wall?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is it possible? perhaps...but the 5 or so guys who really develop for this phone havent been able to get it to work....nor is aosp working 100% on any galaxy s phone

Response from developers?
Anyone?

Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.

adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree get your ass moving so we can have teh honeycombzzzz. Quit being such a lazy stingy jerk and get us our AOSP!

ksizzle9 said:
Jt1134, adrynalyne, and fallingup(angel12) are all very capable as well. This is solely the fault of none other Samsung.
Edit: to answer your question, i think that.the answer about RIL is no, although i dont have a good qualified answer about why the RIL from D2 cant be ported im sure that if it could have, it would have. Sorry thats not a better answer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i was just pulling one dev name out for the heck of it
but i subscribe to the "if it could have been done, it would have been done"

adrynalyne said:
Yes, you know so much, we are waiting for you to fix it.
Hurry the hell up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.

CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that may be a problem for those who just stay here as virtually everything is irc only these days...or the majority of it anyway

CNemo7539 said:
I don't care what you did for community! But you behave like f****g jerk.
No real explanation for the rest of us? Stay on irc, we will survive without your comments here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many different ways do people need to say that "it's being worked on"? The devs are doing a lot of work on our device, but also working with other stuff, all in their free time. Follow the stuff they do on Twitter and github, or join in on IRC.
Attitudes such as your's are precisely why the devs have stopped posting stuff here. You act as though it's a simple process to do things, when it isn't, especially when Samsung gives you a crappy base to start from. The devs have to first get Samsung's source fixed and cleaned up, then start on whatever it is they want to work on, all while finding more bugs and issues that need fixed, primarily all stemming from the crappy source. If you want to be angry at someone, make it Samsung, not the few devs that are working on our device.
Sent from my StupidFast Voodoo Fascinate

As I said - I will survive. I'm OK even with not rooted stock.
Was it so difficult to answer what the real problem is? I don't know what is the problem with this generation? Do I need to be on FB, irc or whatever to get the answer? Why do not answer in place? Ain't it this forum purpose?
No, seems like I need to kiss somebody ass to get meaningful response these days... That way he can maintain his "super god" status.
I do believe I've been pretty polite stating my question, even though English is not my native language. What generated so much sarcasm?

Redevelopment of apps now that gingerbread is on the horizon

Hey,
I am NOT a dev, but I would like to know what kind of work work is going to be required now that gingerbread is on the forefront?
For example, VPlayer, doesn't work... it FC... How much work is it going to take to get the program back up and running???
Im just asking because, as much as I hate to admit it, fragmentation (as everyone calls it) is going to start causing issues. I get that google wants to offer the best and the latest and greatest, but if everytime a new API get sent out, and devs' have to rewrite their work, how much time is it going to take to get the proggy back up and running??
Thanks!
Theo

theomajigga said:
I am NOT a dev,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should've stop right there.
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

borodin1 said:
You should've stop right there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, I didn't ask for you to be a ****, if I would have posted this in the dev forum that would have prompted you to respond as such.
borodin1 said:
You realize that at this point only 1(!) phone is running official 2.3 Gingerbread and it's Samsung Nexus S. It's a drop in a bucket comparing to all of the phones that are running official 2.x firmware.
Furthermore, if an app is properly developed against 1.x or 2.x SDK then it will work with gingerbreadas as all APIs are future-compliant. The only problem would be is if an app is developed using 2.3 APIs and you would try to use it on earlier roms or if it used undocumented/unofficial APIs that were not supposed to be used and were discontinued in future releases.
We don't know what 's causing vPlayer not to work, could be many things (kernel, unfinished rom development, missing libs) or it could be things in vPlayer that were improperly implemented.
Send a log to developer and see if he/she can help you. Given that you're not running official (or at least stable!) release, you may not get far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the answer, i guess.
borodin1 said:
But please, don't jump on that "fragmentation" train, it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that that is out of the way, can I ask you HOW you can honestly say that Android isn't fragmented. Seriously ask your self... I LOVE android, I really do, G1-cliq-MT3G-Nexus One-HD2(androided)-MT4G, but I can't even lie about that. There is 9 API levels!! 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0.1, 2.0, 1.6, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0.
NOW I DO UNDERSTAND THAT ALMOST 45% ARE ON 2.2 and 40% ARE ON 2.1.
Ok, so now most apps are going to be working on that 84% of phones running level 7+.
But this ALSO doesn't account for the manufacture API's that are implemented buy some of them, which I KNOW causes some problems. (skype on the Samsung Galaxy Series) just to name one very big one. Skype works on other devices with 2.1, but it doesn't on the Samsung 2.1? as a consumer, I'd ask wtf, even with their limited knowledge of android.
Fragmentation is defined as is the inability to "write once and run anywhere". Rovio complained about this. Albeit not directly, but they said that they were having issues with people on some phones, with some versions of software, and that it wasn't going to work across the board.
I hate to admit it but there are certain things that need to be done to insure that Android will not only be the "Mobile OS" but it will also be the demanded one (IMHO):
1. Cut the bull**** manufacture stuff out, make only ONE set of API's, with 0 proprietary API's. Make it stuff that you can get if you want through the Android Market (custom UI's and such).
2. Control the god-damn market, find spammers, find shady devs re-uploading their apps multiple times to get ad dollars.
3. Get everybody on board to updates, require that all devices with X specifications be updated Y months after a source is released. That will get again get everyone on the same API level, and will make all apps compatible (maybe slow).
4. For the love of all holy, USE THE BEST COMPONENTS YOU CAN FIND! AND MAKE IT A STANDARD At least for the primary functions of the phone. For example, the Nexus One (my fave so far) did NOT have a competent touch screen, 2 point, and a BAD 2 point at that, and that is considered to be the new dev phone. Well who the HELL would want to dev for a platform that can only recognize two points (barely) that doesn't always even get them right? I sure as hell wouldn't. Finally I get the MT4G, the FIRST thing i did was test the touch screen, and guess what... It still is sub-par. 4 points, where my friends Galaxy S can do 6 or something. Now you are going to ask me, who uses 6 points idiot? Some games, do, and to top **** off, if you can't recognize 2 points properly, close together, how can some of the basic multi-touch functions work? (google maps on the N1)
I'm sorry for the rant, but I'm realistic. A mobile platform can't win like this.
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~damithch/df/device-fragmentation.htm

No Custom ROMs on WP8 Devices

Hi I wanted to buy a wp8 device but after reading this article I gave up buying a wp8 device. Because no custom roms is a deal-breaker for me. So looks like its not possible to unlock wp8 devices for now but I don't know is it gonna be in the future. I'm asking because I don't know how unlocking process works because I never used a wp device. I know how android system works but I have no idea about wp devices. So if you guys can explain if it can be done in the future or why we will never be able to unlock wp8 devices. :good:
Edit: Its no longer a deal-breaker for me I thought unlock was important as much as jailbreak on iphone and root on android. But thanks for helping me realise wp devices do not need unlock
Edit2: I bought a lumia 920. You guys were right wp is awesome. Only things I am missing from android is file explorer, rotation lock and notifications.

Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.

martan1981 said:
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can be right, custom roms means a lot on android and jailbreak means a lot for iphone. So I thought unlock is important like jailbreak/root. But if not, I'm definitely gonna buy a wp8 Thanks for the info about roms. I want to ask, can we install local apps like we can do at android without unlocking?

Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place, and not because of customization or whatever else then less enlighten users use ROMs for.

mcosmin222 said:
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.

Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Yeh the Op is kinda exaggerating with the deal-breaker though.

mcosmin222 said:
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I've just pointed out, improvement is not needed. On the other hand, is improvement improvement? Why, yes.

thebobp said:
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.

^ in your opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

link68759 said:
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free tethering? My experience tells me that only the Dell Venue Pro is incapable of wi-fi tethering because of the chipset. The carriers have disabled the feature but a lot of phones can be interop unlocked and have the feature enabled. Heck, the Quantum requires little effort since it has an onboard reg edit tool. Google be thy friend.

Amazing! (And incredibly stupid!)
This will eventually flood this forum with unhappy users, wishing to mod their devices...after having seen their cool AOS counter parts.

Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")

Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?

You realize that the place you're posting to caters to the small percentage of people who want / use any flexibility afforded them, right?
The elegance of a closed system (relatively speaking) is the stability you can accomplish. This is the apple model to a tee, and for most people it's fine.
BUT, flexibility is where windows the traditional OS, Android, and Linux shine. There are always optimizations that can be done, always tweaks, custom apps galore. Android ROMs have spoiled us, masses be dammed.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

dragonide said:
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has began.

I actually am for Custom ROMs. Sorry, but Devs sometimes just do a better job at things. A Interop Unlocking and Custom ROMs made my Trophy a heck of a lot more enjoyable to use.
And I disagree with all the lock downs MS has in place. Email, messaging clients, browsers, keyboards. We are all stuck with one version. No chance to use versions a Dev could provide that would give us more options and features. Sometimes, Devs just do things better. The MS locked apps I listed, among others, can all be improved upon. Rather than waiting or hoping MS does more to improve them, itd be a lot nicer to have options of 3rd party devs.

lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So WP8 has a file explorer?

lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I have WP8 I no longer have custom ROMs, and here's a list of things I'm missing.
-Being able to back up and restore isolated storage (aka game saves and apps with braindamaged devs who don't export to skydrive)
-Setting goddamn custom notification sounds.
-Enabling internet sharing on AT&T
-Bluetooth file transfer for unsupported files
-USB Video out
And the biggest thing was updates to the latest build (7.8), because you either have to wait years to get the stupid thing, or you just never get it. WP8 seems to have solved that issue, but it's a big thing for 7.x
There is significantly more homebrew than apps that can be pirated too... So no, WP8 is not perfect out of the box yet.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro

IMHO there is stil need for custom roms with WP8. This system for many might need to be changed. For example (I had Lumia 920 but beeing annoyed I've sold it) People Hub. I had Facebook account and LinkedIIn configured and connected with Microsoft Account. Hopefully People Hub allows me to display only those people from my Outlook Account with photos of them from LinkedIn or Facebook. That's good. Where is the problem - mail app which seems not to use People Hub filtering and after I've started writing somebody's email it was trying to suggest me all of the people from my linkedin and facebook. Facebook is a toy for me, email is a tool for work. I dont's wanna havve facebook contacts in my email. What's more - I don't wan't to see non skype contacts on my skype list. How to solve it ? Only custom rom may help with modified People Hub service.

dansus72 said:
So WP8 has a file explorer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you're not being sarcastic, and really asking- i'm taking no offense of malice either way, just answering
no, there is no file explorer. this is hotly debated over and over again as to wether its a needed feature or just a 'gimmie' app on other platforms. some even argue that a file explorer on wp8 makes it insecure. whatever.
i'm seeing fewer and fewer posts here on xda pertaining to wp. even the extremely optimistic wpcentral forum is turning a little more 'real' since MWC turned into a nokia-only festival for wp.
anyway, i'm getting sidetracked. hope i answered your question nicely